Time to scrap the National Leagues?

[BennyCake]

Without trying to look like T Fearon...

Has the National League gone past it's sell by date?

All I hear is teams treating matches, finals included, like a training session. Ah sure we'll see what happens, it'll be a good preparation for the championship, we'll be aiming for a decent performance... These sort of statements. Yes I know championship is more important but most teams are going into the NFL half-arsed. It's disrespectful to fans who pay good money to follow their team. This last few seasons, half-arsed talk, and I keep thinking, well why the feck am I going to these matches?!

Half a dozen teams capable of winning Sam, maybe less, and most won't get into a asses roar of Sam. Yet they take the league lightly, when they haven't won a trophy in 100 years. The recent winners celebrate like they just won a charity match.

Time to scrap it and incorporate league within the c'ship I think.

[BennyHarp]

Yes but it gives fans of the smaller counties an opportunity to celebrate winning some silverware. For example, some Armagh posters have been giddy with excitement since Saturday night, do we really want to rob them of their only real potential chance of glory?

[Maguire01]

Scrap semi-finals and finals. Otherwise the leagues should stay unless there's some radical alternative. If not then you'd have some county teams playing two games in an entire year.

[Ball Hopper]

Make it a true league...11 teams in each of three divisions.  No semifinals or finals. Team top after 10 games are champions. Continue with two relegated and two promoted...or maybe three?

No pre-season tournament. First league game in January, last one in late April.

[blewuporstuffed]

Make it a true league...11 teams in each of three divisions.  No semifinals or finals. Team top after 10 games are champions. Continue with two relegated and two promoted...or maybe three?

No pre-season tournament. First league game in January, last one in late April.

I would agree with this, and was saying the exact same thing yesterday.
The semi finals and finals are a pointless exercise.
restructure the league to 3 divisions and the team that finishes top wins it.
This would also give more certainy to the fixtures schedule for every county.

[AZOffaly]

I think the 4 divisions are fine as they are, no need to go to 3x11 in my opinion, however the finals, especially in divisions 2,3 and 4 are pointless exercises. Even the whole 'give weaker counties a day out in Croker' falls a bit flat when there's about 10k there.

The one thing I would say is that the Leagues seem to have become more important for teams from division 2 down. Division 1 teams tend to use it as a shot to nothing when they are safe from relegation, but teams in 2,3 and 4 take it a lot more seriously now than they ever did in the past 20 years or so.

[Michael Schmeichal]

Without trying to look like T Fearon...

Has the National League gone past it's sell by date?

All I hear is teams treating matches, finals included, like a training session. Ah sure we'll see what happens, it'll be a good preparation for the championship, we'll be aiming for a decent performance... These sort of statements. Yes I know championship is more important but most teams are going into the NFL half-arsed. It's disrespectful to fans who pay good money to follow their team. This last few seasons, half-arsed talk, and I keep thinking, well why the feck am I going to these matches?!

Half a dozen teams capable of winning Sam, maybe less, and most won't get into a asses roar of Sam. Yet they take the league lightly, when they haven't won a trophy in 100 years. The recent winners celebrate like they just won a charity match.

Time to scrap it and incorporate league within the c'ship I think.

Will you be looking to scrap the championship  if the Dubs keep winning that too?

[Ball Hopper]

I think the 4 divisions are fine as they are, no need to go to 3x11 in my opinion, however the finals, especially in divisions 2,3 and 4 are pointless exercises. Even the whole 'give weaker counties a day out in Croker' falls a bit flat when there's about 10k there.

The one thing I would say is that the Leagues seem to have become more important for teams from division 2 down. Division 1 teams tend to use it as a shot to nothing when they are safe from relegation, but teams in 2,3 and 4 take it a lot more seriously now than they ever did in the past 20 years or so.

The fewer number of teams will have too much grouping, in that four teams could be in relegation trouble going into the last round.  Deciding relegation by score difference (which team beat the bottom team by the most) is not fair.  Spread over a greater number of games, teams will find their true level.  For example, no team should feature in The final one year and be relegated with a few games to go the following season.  Not a true league.  Expansion is the only way to go.  And put Sigerson in November. 

[LilySavage]

Think semifinals and finals could be scrapped. Would certainly not scrap the league format as they give us the most competitive of games with evenly matched teams graded accordingly. You could scrap the OByrne/McKenna/McGrath Cups and reduvce the no. of teams to 7 maybe and let teams play each other twice in top 3 divisons and have a 12 team division 4, teams play each other once. Start league in late january and let the table decide who wins after 12 games. Maybe not as radical as that but wouldnt be tinkering around with it too much. Same argument made every year when people see a half empty non competitive final in Croker. Thats only the one game though remember, rest of league is very competitive and real reward is getting to play in as high a grade as possible.

[AZOffaly]

I think the 4 divisions are fine as they are, no need to go to 3x11 in my opinion, however the finals, especially in divisions 2,3 and 4 are pointless exercises. Even the whole 'give weaker counties a day out in Croker' falls a bit flat when there's about 10k there.

The one thing I would say is that the Leagues seem to have become more important for teams from division 2 down. Division 1 teams tend to use it as a shot to nothing when they are safe from relegation, but teams in 2,3 and 4 take it a lot more seriously now than they ever did in the past 20 years or so.

The fewer number of teams will have too much grouping, in that four teams could be in relegation trouble going into the last round.  Deciding relegation by score difference (which team beat the bottom team by the most) is not fair.  Spread over a greater number of games, teams will find their true level.  For example, no team should feature in The final one year and be relegated with a few games to go the following season.  Not a true league.  Expansion is the only way to go.  And put Sigerson in November.

I disagree. I think the more teams in a division the less dead rubbers. In your scenario where 4 teams are in trouble going into the last round, sure that's brilliant drama and entertainment, not to mention great for intensity. I find the more teams in a division, the more games you have featuring teams with little or nothing to play for.

[Jinxy]

I think teams now take the league itself much more seriously than they used to and as a result it's really competitive and genuinely engaging.
I would agree however that there is no point to the semi-finals and finals and they actually have the effect of devaluing the entire structure.

[blewuporstuffed]

I think the 4 divisions are fine as they are, no need to go to 3x11 in my opinion, however the finals, especially in divisions 2,3 and 4 are pointless exercises. Even the whole 'give weaker counties a day out in Croker' falls a bit flat when there's about 10k there.

The one thing I would say is that the Leagues seem to have become more important for teams from division 2 down. Division 1 teams tend to use it as a shot to nothing when they are safe from relegation, but teams in 2,3 and 4 take it a lot more seriously now than they ever did in the past 20 years or so.

The fewer number of teams will have too much grouping, in that four teams could be in relegation trouble going into the last round.  Deciding relegation by score difference (which team beat the bottom team by the most) is not fair.  Spread over a greater number of games, teams will find their true level.  For example, no team should feature in The final one year and be relegated with a few games to go the following season.  Not a true league.  Expansion is the only way to go.  And put Sigerson in November.

I disagree. I think the more teams in a division the less dead rubbers. In your scenario where 4 teams are in trouble going into the last round, sure that's brilliant drama and entertainment, not to mention great for intensity. I find the more teams in a division, the more games you have featuring teams with little or nothing to play for.

But you end up with the bizarre senario in the last game or two that for some teams if they lose, they will be relegated, if they win they will be in a semi final.Surely there should be more separation than taht between the top & the bottom?
I take your point about possible dead rubber games, but at the minute we have finals/semi finals that are not much better

[AZOffaly]

I don't think we should have semi finals at all.

[Rossfan]

This year's semis and finals were in the main a good case for scrapping those games.
However the Oul € argument comes into play here.
60,000 attendances probably grossed gate money of €750k.Add in programme sales, shops, bar and food....
A lot of dish not to sneezed at.

[AZOffaly]

Grossed. But what was the Net I wonder? We've heard before that Croker needs a 30,000 crowd to break even, although I assume that means both decks open. there was hardly 30'000 there on Saturday was there?