China Coronavirus

[Angelo]

Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.

You can never trust your facts as was shown on another thread.

I don't have the figures for January 18 but the NISRA stats show that the number of registered deaths year to date 5/2/2021 was 2,384 compared to an average for the previous 5 years of 1,888. That's a 26% increase. Which is massive when you take into account the fact that lockdown has been in place helping to at least slow the spread. Over 700 covid deaths registered in 2021 so far which explains the large increase before you try to blame it on other factors.

Here's NISRA figures.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018.
1,922 deaths in Jan 2021

Should we take into account we had a flu jab in 2017/18 or just ignore that?

The vast, vast majority of people who get Covid neither need hopsitalisation or die.

Nobody is saying it's not serious but was the winter flu of 17/18 not serious and why did we not take action to save lives? I can't square off that hypocrisy.

Where are you seeing that? There weekly release only shows 2021 compared to the averages for the last 5 years. And what it says is 1922 deaths (up to 29/1/21) which compares to the 5 year average of 1,550. Even if you take the highest weekly death rate for each week over the 5 years (they might not all come from 2018) the total number for that is 1,810.

Sorry.

Thought I attached the link in the last post

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls

I think there is a timing issue in terms of weeks brought in when you look at that table. They have a lot of other tables showing a week by week comparison of the last 5 years (including maximum deaths each week) which clearly show there has been more deaths in January 2021 compared to 2018. And that is only one month, as pointed out to you before covid is relentess and is causing excess deaths month after month after month.

But none to the same peak as winter flu 17/18 where we just shrugged our shoulders and put it down as a bad one.

[Rossfan]

Ah the oul foul language personal abuse when a fact is reported.
Class???

Report away. No shiny shites given here. Why you turnin a pandemic into a north south thing

Never mentioned the North....just a dig at a few posters who love running down "Free State"(sic)
And another report
https://m.independent.ie/business/world/uk-economy-has-worst-year-in-modern-history-40082699.html

[Redhand Santa]

Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.

You can never trust your facts as was shown on another thread.

I don't have the figures for January 18 but the NISRA stats show that the number of registered deaths year to date 5/2/2021 was 2,384 compared to an average for the previous 5 years of 1,888. That's a 26% increase. Which is massive when you take into account the fact that lockdown has been in place helping to at least slow the spread. Over 700 covid deaths registered in 2021 so far which explains the large increase before you try to blame it on other factors.

Here's NISRA figures.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018.
1,922 deaths in Jan 2021

Should we take into account we had a flu jab in 2017/18 or just ignore that?

The vast, vast majority of people who get Covid neither need hopsitalisation or die.

Nobody is saying it's not serious but was the winter flu of 17/18 not serious and why did we not take action to save lives? I can't square off that hypocrisy.

Where are you seeing that? There weekly release only shows 2021 compared to the averages for the last 5 years. And what it says is 1922 deaths (up to 29/1/21) which compares to the 5 year average of 1,550. Even if you take the highest weekly death rate for each week over the 5 years (they might not all come from 2018) the total number for that is 1,810.

Sorry.

Thought I attached the link in the last post

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls

I think there is a timing issue in terms of weeks brought in when you look at that table. They have a lot of other tables showing a week by week comparison of the last 5 years (including maximum deaths each week) which clearly show there has been more deaths in January 2021 compared to 2018. And that is only one month, as pointed out to you before covid is relentess and is causing excess deaths month after month after month.

But none to the same peak as winter flu 17/18 where we just shrugged our shoulders and put it down as a bad one.

Every week in 2021 to date the death rate has been higher than the highest week of the last 5 years. The information is all in the NISRA stats that you are quoting. And that's not taking into account December which was above average as well. So not only have they reached the winter peak of 17/18 they have surpassed it. And that's only one period - this thing has been causing large increases in deaths since last March and that is despite restrictions in place.

[Angelo]

Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.

You can never trust your facts as was shown on another thread.

I don't have the figures for January 18 but the NISRA stats show that the number of registered deaths year to date 5/2/2021 was 2,384 compared to an average for the previous 5 years of 1,888. That's a 26% increase. Which is massive when you take into account the fact that lockdown has been in place helping to at least slow the spread. Over 700 covid deaths registered in 2021 so far which explains the large increase before you try to blame it on other factors.

Here's NISRA figures.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018.
1,922 deaths in Jan 2021

Should we take into account we had a flu jab in 2017/18 or just ignore that?

The vast, vast majority of people who get Covid neither need hopsitalisation or die.

Nobody is saying it's not serious but was the winter flu of 17/18 not serious and why did we not take action to save lives? I can't square off that hypocrisy.

Where are you seeing that? There weekly release only shows 2021 compared to the averages for the last 5 years. And what it says is 1922 deaths (up to 29/1/21) which compares to the 5 year average of 1,550. Even if you take the highest weekly death rate for each week over the 5 years (they might not all come from 2018) the total number for that is 1,810.

Sorry.

Thought I attached the link in the last post

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls

I think there is a timing issue in terms of weeks brought in when you look at that table. They have a lot of other tables showing a week by week comparison of the last 5 years (including maximum deaths each week) which clearly show there has been more deaths in January 2021 compared to 2018. And that is only one month, as pointed out to you before covid is relentess and is causing excess deaths month after month after month.

But none to the same peak as winter flu 17/18 where we just shrugged our shoulders and put it down as a bad one.

Every week in 2021 to date the death rate has been higher than the highest week of the last 5 years. The information is all in the NISRA stats that you are quoting. And that's not taking into account December which was above average as well. So not only have they reached the winter peak of 17/18 they have surpassed it. And that's only one period - this thing has been causing large increases in deaths since last March and that is despite restrictions in place.

But again, never the peak of winter flu in Jan 18 and that was vaccines being administered in advance.

And what was our reaction to that? We didn't bat an eyelid.

Nobody is denying Covid but the fearmongering around it needs to stop.

Restrictions in place or whatever - what's the fatality of this virus?

In u40s its killed hanful of people in around 40k confirmed cases. Is this a dangerous disease for most of us? No.

Does it kill as much as cancer? No.

Why is Covid being treated differently to all the other diseases in the world?

[BennyCake]

The proper solution is to lock down and isolate Ireland completely, and keep its borders shut until the rest of the world has stamped it out. No exceptions. Nil.

If that is not feasible, then we already have nearly done enough to open up again. Once the over 70s and high risk groups have been vaccinated, then Covid's potential to kill is minimal to none. Any measures between where we are now, and the complete isolation described above, is little more than chasing a rainbow.

It's not feasible. It won't happen.

New Zealand option is not an option for us. We have the UK 20 mins away on a plane with no (at the moment) quarantine.

The Isle of Man and Channel Islands are nearer, yet they have contained the virus, because of tough restrictions. No reason why the whole of Ireland couldn't do the same.

[BennyCake]

The proper solution is to lock down and isolate Ireland completely, and keep its borders shut until the rest of the world has stamped it out. No exceptions. Nil.

If that is not feasible, then we already have nearly done enough to open up again. Once the over 70s and high risk groups have been vaccinated, then Covid's potential to kill is minimal to none. Any measures between where we are now, and the complete isolation described above, is little more than chasing a rainbow.

100% agree.

[GetOverTheBar]

The proper solution is to lock down and isolate Ireland completely, and keep its borders shut until the rest of the world has stamped it out. No exceptions. Nil.

If that is not feasible, then we already have nearly done enough to open up again. Once the over 70s and high risk groups have been vaccinated, then Covid's potential to kill is minimal to none. Any measures between where we are now, and the complete isolation described above, is little more than chasing a rainbow.

It's not feasible. It won't happen.

New Zealand option is not an option for us. We have the UK 20 mins away on a plane with no (at the moment) quarantine.

The Isle of Man and Channel Islands are nearer, yet they have contained the virus, because of tough restrictions. No reason why the whole of Ireland couldn't do the same.

Because they don't have a complex political situation. Ireland has two jurisdictions for one Island. You can lockdown the Republic of Ireland, but you still have Nothern Ireland and vice versa. There is no all Ireland approach. So it won't happen.

It should happen, but it won't. The DUP telling their support bases to approach this in on an All Ireland basis is never, ever going to happen. Because essentially that is the lifeblood of their party and their people. Anti All Ireland.

There is also the financial aspect. Who covers the cost of Northern Ireland if they go All Ireland, closing down. Does London continue to prop them up? The Irish Govt can't afford to do it.

It's just not happening lads. No matter how much you want it to. With the vaccines on the way and being rolled out, there is more chance of the pandemic ending via herd immunity / vaccination than 3 Governments getting round a table and sorting it out closing the borders.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

angelo wont be happy that you are pro lockdown...

benny slightly off topic here... you are anti vaccine due to the unknowns of long term effect and mis trust of pharm companys.... do you use mobiles 3g 4g 5g wifi any new technologies etc.?  do you have trust on tech companies? do you not use any new tech due to unknowns of long term effects? the same could be said of any new food additives etc.

[Armagh18]

Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.

You can never trust your facts as was shown on another thread.

I don't have the figures for January 18 but the NISRA stats show that the number of registered deaths year to date 5/2/2021 was 2,384 compared to an average for the previous 5 years of 1,888. That's a 26% increase. Which is massive when you take into account the fact that lockdown has been in place helping to at least slow the spread. Over 700 covid deaths registered in 2021 so far which explains the large increase before you try to blame it on other factors.

Here's NISRA figures.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018.
1,922 deaths in Jan 2021

Should we take into account we had a flu jab in 2017/18 or just ignore that?

The vast, vast majority of people who get Covid neither need hopsitalisation or die.

Nobody is saying it's not serious but was the winter flu of 17/18 not serious and why did we not take action to save lives? I can't square off that hypocrisy.

Where are you seeing that? There weekly release only shows 2021 compared to the averages for the last 5 years. And what it says is 1922 deaths (up to 29/1/21) which compares to the 5 year average of 1,550. Even if you take the highest weekly death rate for each week over the 5 years (they might not all come from 2018) the total number for that is 1,810.

Sorry.

Thought I attached the link in the last post

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls

I think there is a timing issue in terms of weeks brought in when you look at that table. They have a lot of other tables showing a week by week comparison of the last 5 years (including maximum deaths each week) which clearly show there has been more deaths in January 2021 compared to 2018. And that is only one month, as pointed out to you before covid is relentess and is causing excess deaths month after month after month.

But none to the same peak as winter flu 17/18 where we just shrugged our shoulders and put it down as a bad one.

Every week in 2021 to date the death rate has been higher than the highest week of the last 5 years. The information is all in the NISRA stats that you are quoting. And that's not taking into account December which was above average as well. So not only have they reached the winter peak of 17/18 they have surpassed it. And that's only one period - this thing has been causing large increases in deaths since last March and that is despite restrictions in place.

But again, never the peak of winter flu in Jan 18 and that was vaccines being administered in advance.

And what was our reaction to that? We didn't bat an eyelid.

Nobody is denying Covid but the fearmongering around it needs to stop.

Restrictions in place or whatever - what's the fatality of this virus?

In u40s its killed hanful of people in around 40k confirmed cases. Is this a dangerous disease for most of us? No.

Does it kill as much as cancer? No.

Why is Covid being treated differently to all the other diseases in the world?

hard to argue with any of thay in fairness

[Angelo]

angelo wont be happy that you are pro lockdown...

benny slightly off topic here... you are anti vaccine due to the unknowns of long term effect and mis trust of pharm companys.... do you use mobiles 3g 4g 5g wifi any new technologies etc.?  do you have trust on tech companies? do you not use any new tech due to unknowns of long term effects? the same could be said of any new food additives etc.

Would you be shamed or ostracised in society for having reservations on 5G or foot additives.

You have two sides to this debate:

Those who have genuine reservations about the vaccine and only wish to have their views respected and taken on board.

Those who are very much for the vaccine and are openly hostile to anyone who questions it, sadly this seems to be the majority grouping.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.

You can never trust your facts as was shown on another thread.

I don't have the figures for January 18 but the NISRA stats show that the number of registered deaths year to date 5/2/2021 was 2,384 compared to an average for the previous 5 years of 1,888. That's a 26% increase. Which is massive when you take into account the fact that lockdown has been in place helping to at least slow the spread. Over 700 covid deaths registered in 2021 so far which explains the large increase before you try to blame it on other factors.

Here's NISRA figures.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018.
1,922 deaths in Jan 2021

Should we take into account we had a flu jab in 2017/18 or just ignore that?

The vast, vast majority of people who get Covid neither need hopsitalisation or die.

Nobody is saying it's not serious but was the winter flu of 17/18 not serious and why did we not take action to save lives? I can't square off that hypocrisy.

Where are you seeing that? There weekly release only shows 2021 compared to the averages for the last 5 years. And what it says is 1922 deaths (up to 29/1/21) which compares to the 5 year average of 1,550. Even if you take the highest weekly death rate for each week over the 5 years (they might not all come from 2018) the total number for that is 1,810.

Sorry.

Thought I attached the link in the last post

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls

I think there is a timing issue in terms of weeks brought in when you look at that table. They have a lot of other tables showing a week by week comparison of the last 5 years (including maximum deaths each week) which clearly show there has been more deaths in January 2021 compared to 2018. And that is only one month, as pointed out to you before covid is relentess and is causing excess deaths month after month after month.

But none to the same peak as winter flu 17/18 where we just shrugged our shoulders and put it down as a bad one.

Every week in 2021 to date the death rate has been higher than the highest week of the last 5 years. The information is all in the NISRA stats that you are quoting. And that's not taking into account December which was above average as well. So not only have they reached the winter peak of 17/18 they have surpassed it. And that's only one period - this thing has been causing large increases in deaths since last March and that is despite restrictions in place.

But again, never the peak of winter flu in Jan 18 and that was vaccines being administered in advance.

And what was our reaction to that? We didn't bat an eyelid.

Nobody is denying Covid but the fearmongering around it needs to stop.

Restrictions in place or whatever - what's the fatality of this virus?

In u40s its killed hanful of people in around 40k confirmed cases. Is this a dangerous disease for most of us? No.

Does it kill as much as cancer? No.

Why is Covid being treated differently to all the other diseases in the world?

hard to argue with any of thay in fairness

its very easy to argue all of it (some elements on relevancy to covid)and i hope redhand santa does. if ive time.later i will  and you can comment on my counterpoints.. ive no intention on engaging with angelo..

[trueblue1234]

Would anyone like to tell me while at hell's gates in January, with hospitals at crisis point, Covid rampant and all the rest how we managed to have 179 deaths in Jan 2021 than we had in Jan 2018?

The lockdown extremists and the flu deniers will surely be scratching their head at that one. I can't see any outrage here in Jan and Feb 2018 about the number of lives lost and how we must or should have acted to save those lives. People shrugged their shoulders and accepted it.

The hypocrisy is off the charts. It's easier to fool someone than convince them they have been fooled.

You can never trust your facts as was shown on another thread.

I don't have the figures for January 18 but the NISRA stats show that the number of registered deaths year to date 5/2/2021 was 2,384 compared to an average for the previous 5 years of 1,888. That's a 26% increase. Which is massive when you take into account the fact that lockdown has been in place helping to at least slow the spread. Over 700 covid deaths registered in 2021 so far which explains the large increase before you try to blame it on other factors.

Here's NISRA figures.

2,101 deaths in Jan 2018.
1,922 deaths in Jan 2021

Should we take into account we had a flu jab in 2017/18 or just ignore that?

The vast, vast majority of people who get Covid neither need hopsitalisation or die.

Nobody is saying it's not serious but was the winter flu of 17/18 not serious and why did we not take action to save lives? I can't square off that hypocrisy.

Where are you seeing that? There weekly release only shows 2021 compared to the averages for the last 5 years. And what it says is 1922 deaths (up to 29/1/21) which compares to the 5 year average of 1,550. Even if you take the highest weekly death rate for each week over the 5 years (they might not all come from 2018) the total number for that is 1,810.

Sorry.

Thought I attached the link in the last post

https://www.nisra.gov.uk/sites/nisra.gov.uk/files/publications/MonthlyDeaths.xls

I think there is a timing issue in terms of weeks brought in when you look at that table. They have a lot of other tables showing a week by week comparison of the last 5 years (including maximum deaths each week) which clearly show there has been more deaths in January 2021 compared to 2018. And that is only one month, as pointed out to you before covid is relentess and is causing excess deaths month after month after month.

But none to the same peak as winter flu 17/18 where we just shrugged our shoulders and put it down as a bad one.

Every week in 2021 to date the death rate has been higher than the highest week of the last 5 years. The information is all in the NISRA stats that you are quoting. And that's not taking into account December which was above average as well. So not only have they reached the winter peak of 17/18 they have surpassed it. And that's only one period - this thing has been causing large increases in deaths since last March and that is despite restrictions in place.

But again, never the peak of winter flu in Jan 18 and that was vaccines being administered in advance.

And what was our reaction to that? We didn't bat an eyelid.

Nobody is denying Covid but the fearmongering around it needs to stop.

Restrictions in place or whatever - what's the fatality of this virus?

In u40s its killed hanful of people in around 40k confirmed cases. Is this a dangerous disease for most of us? No.

Does it kill as much as cancer? No.

Why is Covid being treated differently to all the other diseases in the world?

hard to argue with any of thay in fairness

It would all be relevant if we'd locked down in 2018 as well.

Which we didn't.

Which makes comparisons absolutely pointless.

Which has been pointed out before

Multiple times

On this thread

[Angelo]

its very easy to argue all of it (some elements on relevancy to covid)and i hope redhand santa does. if ive time.later i will  and you can comment on my counterpoints.. ive no intention on engaging with angelo..

Not easy to argue it at all.

In fact this is the same point I've been making for a number of months now and nobody has been able to give an effective answer.

As long as I've been on this planet people have died every year - heart disease, respiratory illnesses, suicide, road traffic accidents, cancer, flu, meningitis.

We know most of the causes of these deaths yet we never shut down society for them. We know smoking and alcohol cause millions of deaths every year worldwide yet we allow them freely in society, the only catch we have is that we allow people do it at a certain age.

It's insincere and disingenuous to say we are doing this to save lives when we are happy to enable so many needless deaths every year.

[Angelo]

It would all be relevant if we'd locked down in 2018 as well.

Which we didn't.

Which makes comparisons absolutely pointless.

Which has been pointed out before

Multiple times

On this thread

That's exactly what makes it relevant.

We did not lock down at a time when we had peak deaths, in fact we did not even give a toss then.

If Covid is killing the same amount of people in 6 years time do you think we'll still be in lockdown or will we throw our hat at it?

[trueblue1234]

It would all be relevant if we'd locked down in 2018 as well.

Which we didn't.

Which makes comparisons absolutely pointless.

Which has been pointed out before

Multiple times

On this thread

That's exactly what makes it relevant.

We did not lock down at a time when we had peak deaths, in fact we did not even give a toss then.

If Covid is killing the same amount of people in 6 years time do you think we'll still be in lockdown or will we throw our hat at it?

Nice try. The point is (as you know) we had roughly the same deaths in Jan this year as the worst flu year in 40 years. And that's despite the global lockdowns being implemented. God knows what would have been the figure if we hadn't locked down. It's quite straightforward really.