gaaboard.com

GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: APM on August 22, 2018, 11:39:28 AM

Poll
Question: What is your preferred Football Championship format?
Option 1: Current System votes: 8
Option 2: Pre-2018 - Backdoor - No Super 8s votes: 12
Option 3: Pre-2001 - Knock Out - No Backdoor votes: 8
Option 4: Pre-2001 - Knock Out - No Backdoor - Enhanced League Programme votes: 22
Option 5: Open Draw votes: 23
Option 6: Tiered Championship votes: 30
Title: New Championship Format
Post by: APM on August 22, 2018, 11:39:28 AM
Interested in your views on this.  You can choose 2 options.

edit
Should have said - I think going back to the old system - pre 2001 and enhancing the league programme would be very attractive.  Shorter, more condensed championship, purely knock-out, would help restore the appeal and do or die nature that we all loved. 

Meanwhile, the league has been gaining in relevance in recent years and an enhanced programme of fixtures (say 3 divisions of 9 or 10 would ensure more games for the weaker counties) with the top 2 teams in Division 1 playing for the league title. 

Fewer championship games might mean less income for the GAA  - (although it could be offset by more league fixtures ) and it would have to cut its cloth accordingly - fewer employees might not be a bad thing. 
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 11:59:46 AM
8 groups of 4, groups made up of 1 team from each division in the league. Top two in each group through to knockout, bottom two to 2nd tier competition. League which is already brilliant will step up more because there's more significance, every team still has a chance at the Sam McGuire, more knockout games, seeded so cream should rise to the top ensuring top game at the latter stages but there's still a chance of a team going deep.

Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Rossfan on August 22, 2018, 12:51:51 PM
This new condensed Championship has the winter threads starting early :-\
*A League of some sorts finals/ play iffs/Relegation st playoffs etc on St Patrick's Day.
*Provincial Championships in traditional format with all Counties partaking in May with Finals June Bank Holiday weekend.
* All Ireland Senior, Intermediate and Junior Championships in July with Finals August Bank Holiday weekend. Promotion/Relegation to apply.
* Club Championships to be completed within calendar year.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Jinxy on August 22, 2018, 12:55:36 PM
Think of what we'd lose if we got rid of the provincial championships...














gimme a minute, I'm still thinking.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 12:59:35 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2018, 12:55:36 PM
Think of what we'd lose if we got rid of the provincial championships...














gimme a minute, I'm still thinking.

Exactly....I'm sure all young Galway hurlers dreamed of winning the Leinster senior championship grown up!!
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Mourne Red on August 22, 2018, 12:59:43 PM
Quote from: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 11:59:46 AM
8 groups of 4, groups made up of 1 team from each division in the league. Top two in each group through to knockout, bottom two to 2nd tier competition. League which is already brilliant will step up more because there's more significance, every team still has a chance at the Sam McGuire, more knockout games, seeded so cream should rise to the top ensuring top game at the latter stages but there's still a chance of a team going deep.

I'd agree with this one, Also when it gets too the knockout stages - Stage a 2nd Tier game with a 1st Tier Game

8 Stadiums Needed then - Portaoise, Clones,  Páirc Uí Chaoimh, Gaelic Grounds, Croke Park, Casement (when its finally built), Pearse Stadium etc..

Means football around the country and also give 2nd tier teams exposure as they'll be played with 1st Tier games so TV camera's will be there to show games (TG4 maybe get the rights) and highlights of the 2nd competition
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: playwiththewind1st on August 22, 2018, 01:25:18 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 22, 2018, 12:51:51 PM
This new condensed Championship has the winter threads starting early :-\
*A League of some sorts finals/ play iffs/Relegation st playoffs etc on St Patrick's Day.
*Provincial Championships in traditional format with all Counties partaking in May with Finals June Bank Holiday weekend.
* All Ireland Senior, Intermediate and Junior Championships in July with Finals August Bank Holiday weekend. Promotion/Relegation to apply.
* Club Championships to be completed within calendar year.
No June bank holiday weekend up here, I am afraid. Would the 12-13 July Orangefest holidays suit, maybe?

Plus, rest of July is out, as we close for a fortnight.

Also, is that the ROI August bank holiday, or the UK one - assuming you don't go & kick us out altogether?
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Owenmoresider on August 22, 2018, 01:31:43 PM
Quote from: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 12:59:35 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2018, 12:55:36 PM
Think of what we'd lose if we got rid of the provincial championships...














gimme a minute, I'm still thinking.

Exactly....I'm sure all young Galway hurlers dreamed of winning the Leinster senior championship grown up!!
Like all young Tipp footballers dreamed of winning the Paidi Ó Sé cup I suppose.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Rossfan on August 22, 2018, 01:37:50 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2018, 12:55:36 PM
Think of what we'd lose if we got rid of the provincial championships...

Not much in Leinster or Munster.
Still around 335,000 turned up to watch the 4 Football ones this year so I suspect the GAA would miss th'oul  €6 or 7m.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 01:47:25 PM
Quote from: Owenmoresider on August 22, 2018, 01:31:43 PM
Quote from: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 12:59:35 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2018, 12:55:36 PM
Think of what we'd lose if we got rid of the provincial championships...














gimme a minute, I'm still thinking.

Exactly....I'm sure all young Galway hurlers dreamed of winning the Leinster senior championship grown up!!
Like all young Tipp footballers dreamed of winning the Paidi Ó Sé cup I suppose.

Well going by my 1st post in here we'd have a chance at winning Sam from the outset and if we arent good enough to qualify then yeah I'd be happy to give the "paudi o se" cup a good go. We did win the inaugural Tommy Murphy cup and were very happy to do so.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Esmarelda on August 22, 2018, 01:51:30 PM
Well it's about bloody time a thread was started on this.

Four groups of eight with one from each division, yet we hear talk of teams getting hammered being pointless and dead rubbers being a no-go in our sacred game.

Current or previous system for me.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 01:55:58 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on August 22, 2018, 01:37:50 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2018, 12:55:36 PM
Think of what we'd lose if we got rid of the provincial championships...

Not much in Leinster or Munster.
Still around 335,000 turned up to watch the 4 Football ones this year so I suspect the GAA would miss th'oul  €6 or 7m.

It all depends, on my suggestion with no provincial championship you have 48 group games, then 15 in Sam McGuire and another 15 in paudi o se. That's 78 games total in the championship. Just looking quickly there and I think 68 games are being played in 2018. Granted I take the fact there wouldn't be big marquee games early on but cream should rise to the top
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 01:59:25 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on August 22, 2018, 01:51:30 PM
Well it's about bloody time a thread was started on this.

Four groups of eight with one from each division, yet we hear talk of teams getting hammered being pointless and dead rubbers being a no-go in our sacred game.

Current or previous system for me.

The whole Leinster and munster championships as a whole are dead rubbers. Look at connacht, roscommon giving hidings to leitrim and Galway hammering Sligo.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: AZOffaly on August 22, 2018, 02:07:09 PM
Quote from: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 12:59:35 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2018, 12:55:36 PM
Think of what we'd lose if we got rid of the provincial championships...














gimme a minute, I'm still thinking.

Exactly....I'm sure all young Galway hurlers dreamed of winning the Leinster senior championship grown up!!

Surprised at you. You think Michael Quinlivan and Conor Sweeney don't dream of winning a Munster SFC?
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Esmarelda on August 22, 2018, 02:08:08 PM
Quote from: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 01:59:25 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on August 22, 2018, 01:51:30 PM
Well it's about bloody time a thread was started on this.

Four groups of eight with one from each division, yet we hear talk of teams getting hammered being pointless and dead rubbers being a no-go in our sacred game.

Current or previous system for me.

The whole Leinster and munster championships as a whole are dead rubbers. Look at connacht, roscommon giving hidings to leitrim and Galway hammering Sligo.
Indeed. And the solution is?
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 02:17:49 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 22, 2018, 02:07:09 PM
Quote from: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 12:59:35 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2018, 12:55:36 PM
Think of what we'd lose if we got rid of the provincial championships...














gimme a minute, I'm still thinking.

Exactly....I'm sure all young Galway hurlers dreamed of winning the Leinster senior championship grown up!!

Surprised at you. You think Michael Quinlivan and Conor Sweeney don't dream of winning a Munster SFC?

It would be like an all Ireland to us but I don't think it's worth keeping if it's holding back the championship as a whole. Unless the very very rare time one of the big teams don't win a provincial they mean very little.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 02:21:07 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on August 22, 2018, 02:08:08 PM
Quote from: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 01:59:25 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on August 22, 2018, 01:51:30 PM
Well it's about bloody time a thread was started on this.

Four groups of eight with one from each division, yet we hear talk of teams getting hammered being pointless and dead rubbers being a no-go in our sacred game.

Current or previous system for me.

The whole Leinster and munster championships as a whole are dead rubbers. Look at connacht, roscommon giving hidings to leitrim and Galway hammering Sligo.
Indeed. And the solution is?

That's it, you'll never please everyone. Small teams don't want 2nd tier because they want to be in Sam and have the exposure of playing the big teams. The way I put it you still have that but like you say early on there will be exposure for smaller counties against bigger ones and hammerings will be a certainty. I'm not saying I'm right but putting forward what I think is a much better format than we have currently. I'm open to suggestions also.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Esmarelda on August 22, 2018, 02:38:32 PM
Quote from: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 02:21:07 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on August 22, 2018, 02:08:08 PM
Quote from: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 01:59:25 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on August 22, 2018, 01:51:30 PM
Well it's about bloody time a thread was started on this.

Four groups of eight with one from each division, yet we hear talk of teams getting hammered being pointless and dead rubbers being a no-go in our sacred game.

Current or previous system for me.

The whole Leinster and munster championships as a whole are dead rubbers. Look at connacht, roscommon giving hidings to leitrim and Galway hammering Sligo.
Indeed. And the solution is?

That's it, you'll never please everyone. Small teams don't want 2nd tier because they want to be in Sam and have the exposure of playing the big teams. The way I put it you still have that but like you say early on there will be exposure for smaller counties against bigger ones and hammerings will be a certainty. I'm not saying I'm right but putting forward what I think is a much better format than we have currently. I'm open to suggestions also.
I appreciate what you're saying, and I wasn't knocking your proposal as such, more the fact that, as you say, every "solution" creates further problems.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: AZOffaly on August 22, 2018, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on August 22, 2018, 02:38:32 PM
Quote from: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 02:21:07 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on August 22, 2018, 02:08:08 PM
Quote from: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 01:59:25 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on August 22, 2018, 01:51:30 PM
Well it's about bloody time a thread was started on this.

Four groups of eight with one from each division, yet we hear talk of teams getting hammered being pointless and dead rubbers being a no-go in our sacred game.

Current or previous system for me.

The whole Leinster and munster championships as a whole are dead rubbers. Look at connacht, roscommon giving hidings to leitrim and Galway hammering Sligo.
Indeed. And the solution is?

That's it, you'll never please everyone. Small teams don't want 2nd tier because they want to be in Sam and have the exposure of playing the big teams. The way I put it you still have that but like you say early on there will be exposure for smaller counties against bigger ones and hammerings will be a certainty. I'm not saying I'm right but putting forward what I think is a much better format than we have currently. I'm open to suggestions also.
I appreciate what you're saying, and I wasn't knocking your proposal as such, more the fact that, as you say, every "solution" creates further problems.

That's because there's no consensus on what the 'problem' if any, is. Some people want more even games throughout the championship. Some people want more games period. Some people want less. Some people's issue is not with the format, but with the style of play.

The GAA has taken the 'Trial and Error' approach hoping that if they keep tweaking it, they'll eventually end up on a popular format. The problem is there are so many camps that no-one can articulate a popular view of what anyone wants!
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 02:56:19 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 22, 2018, 02:49:24 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on August 22, 2018, 02:38:32 PM
Quote from: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 02:21:07 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on August 22, 2018, 02:08:08 PM
Quote from: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 01:59:25 PM
Quote from: Esmarelda on August 22, 2018, 01:51:30 PM
Well it's about bloody time a thread was started on this.

Four groups of eight with one from each division, yet we hear talk of teams getting hammered being pointless and dead rubbers being a no-go in our sacred game.

Current or previous system for me.

The whole Leinster and munster championships as a whole are dead rubbers. Look at connacht, roscommon giving hidings to leitrim and Galway hammering Sligo.
Indeed. And the solution is?

That's it, you'll never please everyone. Small teams don't want 2nd tier because they want to be in Sam and have the exposure of playing the big teams. The way I put it you still have that but like you say early on there will be exposure for smaller counties against bigger ones and hammerings will be a certainty. I'm not saying I'm right but putting forward what I think is a much better format than we have currently. I'm open to suggestions also.
I appreciate what you're saying, and I wasn't knocking your proposal as such, more the fact that, as you say, every "solution" creates further problems.

That's because there's no consensus on what the 'problem' if any, is. Some people want more even games throughout the championship. Some people want more games period. Some people want less. Some people's issue is not with the format, but with the style of play.

The GAA has taken the 'Trial and Error' approach hoping that if they keep tweaking it, they'll eventually end up on a popular format. The problem is there are so many camps that no-one can articulate a popular view of what anyone wants!

I think without doubt teams playing other teams on a completely different standard is a problem, you see it here every year, "the league is brilliant", why? Because teams are playing teams of a similar level. Also you want more game, the amount of training the teams do, thing I put up guarantees 4 games and I think that's the very minimum players should get for the amount of work they put in.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: AZOffaly on August 22, 2018, 03:02:13 PM
There are others that wouldn't agree that's a problem though. That's my point. you referenced some of them yourself in your post.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Which isn't a problem lads training all year and playing 2 games and done or teams playing in a championship where there are vast differences in levels?

For me it's a case of weighing up the positives and negatives and coming up with the best possible solution, some people won't be happy but if it's better than we currently have....I take your point though, I don't think provincial should be linked to all Ireland others do but I find it hard to say it's fair that Kerry and roscommon have two provincial games whereas the team in Ulster preliminary round has 4. I just tried to come up with a fair balanced all inclusive competition format. I'd love to have people pick holes in it and find problems or I could respond how I felt it would work. I'll never have any influence in the gaa so all it is is discussion and interest

Btw sorry to the OP if I'm after hijacking his thread.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: TheGreatest on August 22, 2018, 04:00:34 PM
Tiered Championship 16 X 2. 4 groups of 4, no seeding. Shorter summer, played off like a world cup.

Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: AZOffaly on August 22, 2018, 04:07:13 PM
Quote from: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Which isn't a problem lads training all year and playing 2 games and done or teams playing in a championship where there are vast differences in levels?

For me it's a case of weighing up the positives and negatives and coming up with the best possible solution, some people won't be happy but if it's better than we currently have....I take your point though, I don't think provincial should be linked to all Ireland others do but I find it hard to say it's fair that Kerry and roscommon have two provincial games whereas the team in Ulster preliminary round has 4. I just tried to come up with a fair balanced all inclusive competition format. I'd love to have people pick holes in it and find problems or I could respond how I felt it would work. I'll never have any influence in the gaa so all it is is discussion and interest

Btw sorry to the OP if I'm after hijacking his thread.

I don't agree the lads are 'training all year and playing 2 games'. The League is a significant competition now, so I think it's untrue to say that.

What I was referring to is that a lot of people don't see a problem in uneven teams playing in the championship. For me, I like the hurling approach where the Joe McDonagh Cup teams are still eligible to compete in the All Ireland series, while still getting games against their own level.

I also like the Provincial Championships. And while the gloss is gone off for Dublin, Mayo, Tyrone, Kerry, I know at least 20 counties would LOVE to win a provincial.

Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: sid waddell on August 22, 2018, 04:20:07 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2018, 12:55:36 PM
Think of what we'd lose if we got rid of the provincial championships...














gimme a minute, I'm still thinking.
You'd lose crowds, for one.

Donegal played Fermanagh in the Ulster final at Clones. It was a full house, as the Ulster final always is.

A few weeks later, Monaghan played Kerry at the same venue. Monaghan knew a win would put them in the All-Ireland semi-finals for the first time since 1988, give them their first championship win over Kerry ever, and eliminate Kerry from the championship. On the face of it, it was an infinitely more attractive fixture than the Ulster final.

Just 17k turned up.



Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Rossfan on August 22, 2018, 04:49:47 PM
As I said 330k at the Provincials.
Qualifiers - haven't all the official figures but an educated guess of 110k won't be too far out.
Quarter Final series - 216k.
So I think we can take it that the Provincials aren't going anywhere.
My suggestions earlier are based on giving Emlyn Mulligan and his counterparts in many other Counties a realistic chance of playing in a National Championship Final in Croke Park.
Also that teams of reasonably equal standard would play each other in a National Championship  (Maybe we need to remove Dublin altogether - I'm sure Dun Laoghaire -Rathdown would give the Junior a good rattle).
AZ - Are you thinking that the winners of a B or Tier 2 or whatever be let into the race for Sam ? At last 12 stage?
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: trileacman on August 22, 2018, 05:00:38 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2018, 12:55:36 PM
Think of what we'd lose if we got rid of the provincial championships...














gimme a minute, I'm still thinking.

The joy of getting to the final that brought joy to so many Fermanagh fans this year, that same joy for Ros winning one last year. Carlows March through Leinster. The Donegal Tyrone derby that was a fixture for the last 8 years or so. The extra interest in competing for 4 extra trophies in a year that carry a world of significance and history with them.

I'm certain Fermanagh fans won't feel the same about the lure of the sky sports Paudi OSe cup as the 130 year odd quest for the Anglo Celt.

For some reason we've all become corporate executives since the Celtic tiger. Footballs in dire straits unless every match is competitive, played in front of a full house, broadcast free to air in Ireland but also around the globe. It's the greatest act of collective amnesia to ever affect the Irish populace, this idea that football was never before in its history ugly, uncompetitive or hard to watch.

The great concern  for so many people about the GAA is seemingly not what it is, not what it means or not what it's doing but it's how it looks on tv.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: trileacman on August 22, 2018, 05:04:52 PM
The whole format thing etc only really became a problem when matches started being televised, there were umpteen hammerinfgs years ago during what the media call "footballs golden age".

My solution- stop televising hammerings.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Rossfan on August 22, 2018, 05:08:12 PM
Ah Jasus we'll never get on TV so.... ::)
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Captain Obvious on August 22, 2018, 05:19:34 PM
Any new format should be looking at ways to make the league more important and popular as the league is your tiered system already in place. The championship is a cup competition and the last eight should be total knock out football. The round robin system which HQ will be keeping for their extra gate receipts should be used for the qualifiers instead of the last 8 of the championship.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: BennyCake on August 22, 2018, 07:31:15 PM
Open draw.

Never gonna happen though.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Ball Hopper on August 22, 2018, 07:49:14 PM
How about reversing the schedule completely?

Play provincial championships in February and March.  Provincial champions into last eight.

April remains club month.

May, June and first half of July for 7 league games for each county. Play two weeks in a row, then a week off. 10 weeks for all 7 games. Top 4 in Div 1 that have not already qualified via provincial championships make up the final 8 along with the provincial champions.  Div 2, 3 and 4 play a final among top 2 as current.

Straight knock-out for quarter-finals on would be most popular I imagine, unless some tweaks to Group structure was made - Game 1 see provincial champs at home, Game 2 between provincial champs at neutral venue (non-provincial champs in this round also at neutral venue).  Game 3 has the 4 non-provincial champs at home.  Game 1 last Sunday in July, Game 2 following weekend, Game 3 third Sunday in Aug.  Semi-finals over 1 weekend.  Final on second week in September if possible.

Straight knock-out would see quarter-finals no later than first weekend in August, both semi-finals on third weekend in August and final first weekend in September.



Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 08:02:41 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 22, 2018, 07:49:14 PM
How about reversing the schedule completely?

Play provincial championships in February and March.  Provincial champions into last eight.

April remains club month.

May, June and first half of July for 7 league games for each county. Play two weeks in a row, then a week off. 10 week for all 7 games. Top 4 in Div 1 that have not already qualified via provincial championships make up the final 8 along with the provincial championships.  Div 2, 3 and 4 play a final among top 2 as current.

Straight knock-out for quarter-finals on would be most popular I imagine, unless some tweaks to Group structure was made - Game 1 see provincial champs at home, Game 2 between provincial champs at neutral venue (non-provincial champs in this round also at neutral venue).  Game 3 has the 4 non-provincial champs at home.  Game 1 last Sunday in July, Game 2 following weekend, Game 3 third Sunday in Aug.  Semi-finals over 1 weekend.  Final on second week in September if possible.

Straight knock-out would see quarter-finals no later than first weekend in August, both semi-finals on third weekend in August and final first weekend in September.

I dunno about keeping April for the month of the club, I know in tipp we used it this year to its fullest extent and it has been a disaster, there is no appetite to us april for clubs again next year
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 08:08:43 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 22, 2018, 04:07:13 PM
Quote from: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Which isn't a problem lads training all year and playing 2 games and done or teams playing in a championship where there are vast differences in levels?

For me it's a case of weighing up the positives and negatives and coming up with the best possible solution, some people won't be happy but if it's better than we currently have....I take your point though, I don't think provincial should be linked to all Ireland others do but I find it hard to say it's fair that Kerry and roscommon have two provincial games whereas the team in Ulster preliminary round has 4. I just tried to come up with a fair balanced all inclusive competition format. I'd love to have people pick holes in it and find problems or I could respond how I felt it would work. I'll never have any influence in the gaa so all it is is discussion and interest

Btw sorry to the OP if I'm after hijacking his thread.

I don't agree the lads are 'training all year and playing 2 games'. The League is a significant competition now, so I think it's untrue to say that.

What I was referring to is that a lot of people don't see a problem in uneven teams playing in the championship. For me, I like the hurling approach where the Joe McDonagh Cup teams are still eligible to compete in the All Ireland series, while still getting games against their own level.

I also like the Provincial Championships. And while the gloss is gone off for Dublin, Mayo, Tyrone, Kerry, I know at least 20 counties would LOVE to win a provincial.

Fair enough, I take it you would be against provincial championships being a stand alone competition? What i put forward the league which i agree is significant become part of the championship to an extent. If theres another format similar to the hurling tiered system then that is another format that i would be in favour of.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Ball Hopper on August 22, 2018, 08:09:01 PM
Quote from: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 08:02:41 PM
Quote from: Ball Hopper on August 22, 2018, 07:49:14 PM
How about reversing the schedule completely?

Play provincial championships in February and March.  Provincial champions into last eight.

April remains club month.

May, June and first half of July for 7 league games for each county. Play two weeks in a row, then a week off. 10 week for all 7 games. Top 4 in Div 1 that have not already qualified via provincial championships make up the final 8 along with the provincial championships.  Div 2, 3 and 4 play a final among top 2 as current.

Straight knock-out for quarter-finals on would be most popular I imagine, unless some tweaks to Group structure was made - Game 1 see provincial champs at home, Game 2 between provincial champs at neutral venue (non-provincial champs in this round also at neutral venue).  Game 3 has the 4 non-provincial champs at home.  Game 1 last Sunday in July, Game 2 following weekend, Game 3 third Sunday in Aug.  Semi-finals over 1 weekend.  Final on second week in September if possible.

Straight knock-out would see quarter-finals no later than first weekend in August, both semi-finals on third weekend in August and final first weekend in September.

I dunno about keeping April for the month of the club, I know in tipp we used it this year to its fullest extent and it has been a disaster, there is no appetite to us april for clubs again next year

Kerry completed all the club championships by early May.  Problem is the Munster Club doesn't start till November for the intermediate and junior champions.

There will be no clashes with senior county championship at least  - intermediate champions Kilcummin will be part of a strong East Kerry team, while junior champs Beaufort will be part of a Mid-Kerry team that saw 4 of the 5 teams relegated this year (including the once-mighty Laune Rangers going down to Div 4).

Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Blowitupref on August 22, 2018, 08:09:54 PM
I don't really see the point of starting county club championships in April when the provincial championships doesn't start until October or November.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Ball Hopper on August 22, 2018, 08:56:01 PM
Quote from: Blowitupref on August 22, 2018, 08:09:54 PM
I don't really see the point of starting county club championships in April when the provincial championships doesn't start until October or November.

I'd agree with you...and the results are mixed, in that Kilcummin used a good April to help them get promoted to Div 1, but Beaufort couldn't build on the early success and were relegated from Div 1 on the last day.

An interesting question would be how many players went on travel in the summer, knowing they'd be in provincial games in November.

But asking players to peak twice a year though, April and November, is hardly correct in player welfare, is it?
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: rrhf on August 22, 2018, 10:21:32 PM
Quote from: trileacman on August 22, 2018, 05:00:38 PM
Quote from: Jinxy on August 22, 2018, 12:55:36 PM
Think of what we'd lose if we got rid of the provincial championships...
Super post.









gimme a minute, I'm still thinking.

The joy of getting to the final that brought joy to so many Fermanagh fans this year, that same joy for Ros winning one last year. Carlows March through Leinster. The Donegal Tyrone derby that was a fixture for the last 8 years or so. The extra interest in competing for 4 extra trophies in a year that carry a world of significance and history with them.

I'm certain Fermanagh fans won't feel the same about the lure of the sky sports Paudi OSe cup as the 130 year odd quest for the Anglo Celt.

For some reason we've all become corporate executives since the Celtic tiger. Footballs in dire straits unless every match is competitive, played in front of a full house, broadcast free to air in Ireland but also around the globe. It's the greatest act of collective amnesia to ever affect the Irish populace, this idea that football was never before in its history ugly, uncompetitive or hard to watch.

The great concern  for so many people about the GAA is seemingly not what it is, not what it means or not what it's doing but it's how it looks on tv.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: BennyCake on August 22, 2018, 10:39:28 PM
Open draw

1st/2nd week in May - round of 32 (2 legs, every team gets a home game)
1st week in June - round of 16
1st week in July - QFs
1st week in Aug - Semis
1st week in Sept - AI final

Clubs play the other 3 weeks between c'ship dates
Everyone knows the score
Dates set in stone
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: APM on August 23, 2018, 09:11:11 AM
This might sound a bit mad, but we're a serious slave to geography.  Could we not do the following:

  • Have Ulster give Cavan over to Connaught - we wouldn't really miss them  ;D
  • Have Leinster give Connaught Longford
  • Put Laois & Offaly into Munster

This would leave all provinces on 8 teams, if you include London in Connaught.  Haven't thought about NY. 

Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: blewuporstuffed on August 23, 2018, 09:37:58 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on August 22, 2018, 04:07:13 PM
Quote from: tippabu on August 22, 2018, 03:45:09 PM
Which isn't a problem lads training all year and playing 2 games and done or teams playing in a championship where there are vast differences in levels?

For me it's a case of weighing up the positives and negatives and coming up with the best possible solution, some people won't be happy but if it's better than we currently have....I take your point though, I don't think provincial should be linked to all Ireland others do but I find it hard to say it's fair that Kerry and roscommon have two provincial games whereas the team in Ulster preliminary round has 4. I just tried to come up with a fair balanced all inclusive competition format. I'd love to have people pick holes in it and find problems or I could respond how I felt it would work. I'll never have any influence in the gaa so all it is is discussion and interest

Btw sorry to the OP if I'm after hijacking his thread.

I don't agree the lads are 'training all year and playing 2 games'. The League is a significant competition now, so I think it's untrue to say that.

What I was referring to is that a lot of people don't see a problem in uneven teams playing in the championship. For me, I like the hurling approach where the Joe McDonagh Cup teams are still eligible to compete in the All Ireland series, while still getting games against their own level.

I also like the Provincial Championships. And while the gloss is gone off for Dublin, Mayo, Tyrone, Kerry, I know at least 20 counties would LOVE to win a provincial.

That would be my preferred structure too, however, therea re a significant number of people against entering into a secondary competition after starting out in the top tier.
Its impossible to please everyone.

I would be in favour of an FA cup style, where the 'big' counties only come in in the 3rd round. that gives the weaker counties the chance to 'qualify' for the AI series.
The provincials should be kept as a stand alone cup competition, but the days of them being part of the AI are probably over.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Rossfan on August 23, 2018, 09:39:45 AM
APM - It's CONNACHT! !!!! >:(
They wouldn't be Provinces then - they'd be just Regions.
Kerry would still walk into the Quarter Finals.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: APM on August 23, 2018, 09:50:10 AM
Sorry for (the) offending U  8)
Must be nearly as bad as calling the 6 counties Ulster!

Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Keyser soze on August 23, 2018, 10:41:07 AM
Do away with the provincials as nobody is interested in playing in them or winning them.

New York and London play a preliminary knockout game to eliminate one of them. [The GAA will figure out a cute hoor way to ensure London will always be awarded this tie as there are too many issues with New York and dodgy visas, the expense etc]

Champions League format or World cup format of 8 groups of 4 [Not sure of which of these formats to go for as they are both equally compelling viewing] on a geographic basis or a seeded basis. Or both.

Winners of the 8 groups go into groups of 2 and the winner of those groups plays the losers of one of the other groups, picked at random and played at a semi neutral venue. If the winners win this they go straight into the knockout stages where they will play 2 legged straight knockout matches, one at Croke Park and one at a neutral venue, if the 2 are different. If the losers win this game ditto.

Any teams adopting defensive tactics will get a stiff e-mail from HQ and have Tommy Carr assigned to co-commentate all their games for the next 12 months. If they re-offend this will automatically be upgraded to Dessie Dolan [or some other similar level of stupid]. If indeed that even exists. At this stage though, or indeed at any time in the future, there are no plans to televise any of these games.

Winners of the knockout stages are the champions and get presented with the Joe Duffy Cup

[But everybody else also gets a wee cup and a medal in case their feelings are hurt.]

Dublin will be put into a group where they will play a round robin series of in house matches, one at Parnell Park, one at Croke Park and one at a neutral venue with the winners presented with All Ireland and the Sam Maguire Cup.

Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Rossfan on September 11, 2018, 11:03:12 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/secondtier-football-championship-back-on-agenda-37303506.html
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: sligoman2 on September 11, 2018, 12:41:27 PM
I've said before and I still maintain that a second tier competition might succeed ONLY IF if the winners and possibly runners up re-enter the championship at the qf/ super 8  stage.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 11, 2018, 02:42:35 PM
Might work.  An opportunity to play a final in front of a full house in Croke park might be enough of an inducement.  I'd like to see added that the winner plays in the upper tier competition the following season.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Kickham csc on September 11, 2018, 03:02:33 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 11, 2018, 02:42:35 PM
Might work.  An opportunity to play a final in front of a full house in Croke park might be enough of an inducement.  I'd like to see added that the winner plays in the upper tier competition the following season.

This approach has failed in hurling, failed when we had the All-Ireland B title in the late 90'3 early '00's, failed with the Tommy Murphy Cups, why would it be a success now?

I would stick as is, no back door, just an open draw knockout competition once the prov champions have been completed.

FFS, a county has the chance to win

  • [/1 secondary prov championship
    League
    Prov Championship
    and then All Ireland

    How much more do they need for a rep team
    li]
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Rossfan on September 11, 2018, 03:26:38 PM
Quote from: Jell 0 Biafra on September 11, 2018, 02:42:35 PM
Might work.  An opportunity to play a final in front of a full house in Croke park might be enough of an inducement.  I'd like to see added that the winner plays in the upper tier competition the following season.
It's still just a vague concept so hard to pass judgement until we see some definite proposal (s),.
Playing the Final as a curtain raiser to the Senior Final....Not much point if the competing Counties only get 2 or 3,000 tickets each.
If it's a stand alone competition called the (insert name of  famous Gael) Cup it will end like Tommy Murphy.

By the way Longford's Micky Quinn in favour of a second tier Championship.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 11, 2018, 03:53:17 PM
Dublin won the League & All-Ireland.

1st competitive game January, last competitive(oxymoron) game September.  It took 32 weeks to play out 16 games. Too long.

Top 12 teams in National League qualify automatically for AI.
4 winners of the provinces join them. If winner in top 12 runner-up joins them, if runner-up in top 12, 13th in league joins them, 14th and so on to 16th.

Jan- Feb (Only college football)

League runs Mar -April

National League Finals
May Bank Holiday Weekend
Provincial Finals
June Bank Holiday Weekend

All- Ireland Series 4 weekends in July

Clubs
April - July Club League
August - October Club Championships

November - December All-Ireland Clubs








Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Esmarelda on September 11, 2018, 07:11:42 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 11, 2018, 03:53:17 PM
Dublin won the League & All-Ireland.

1st competitive game January, last competitive(oxymoron) game September.  It took 32 weeks to play out 16 games. Too long.

Top 12 teams in National League qualify automatically for AI.
4 winners of the provinces join them. If winner in top 12 runner-up joins them, if runner-up in top 12, 13th in league joins them, 14th and so on to 16th.

Jan- Feb (Only college football)

League runs Mar -April

National League Finals
May Bank Holiday Weekend
Provincial Finals
June Bank Holiday Weekend

All- Ireland Series 4 weekends in July

Clubs
April - July Club League
August - October Club Championships

November - December All-Ireland Clubs
The timings aren't that different than what we have now are they?

What happens the other 16 counties after the league?
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: BennyHarp on September 11, 2018, 11:14:59 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on September 11, 2018, 11:03:12 AM
https://m.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/secondtier-football-championship-back-on-agenda-37303506.html

Would Dublin get to enter a thirds team in the second tier competition I wonder?
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 12, 2018, 07:30:02 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on September 11, 2018, 07:11:42 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 11, 2018, 03:53:17 PM
Dublin won the League & All-Ireland.

1st competitive game January, last competitive(oxymoron) game September.  It took 32 weeks to play out 16 games. Too long.

Top 12 teams in National League qualify automatically for AI.
4 winners of the provinces join them. If winner in top 12 runner-up joins them, if runner-up in top 12, 13th in league joins them, 14th and so on to 16th.

Jan- Feb (Only college football)

League runs Mar -April

National League Finals
May Bank Holiday Weekend
Provincial Finals
June Bank Holiday Weekend

All- Ireland Series 4 weekends in July

Clubs
April - July Club League
August - October Club Championships

November - December All-Ireland Clubs
The timings aren't that different than what we have now are they?

What happens the other 16 counties after the league?

They play provincial Championship.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Esmarelda on September 12, 2018, 11:37:04 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 12, 2018, 07:30:02 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on September 11, 2018, 07:11:42 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 11, 2018, 03:53:17 PM
Dublin won the League & All-Ireland.

1st competitive game January, last competitive(oxymoron) game September.  It took 32 weeks to play out 16 games. Too long.

Top 12 teams in National League qualify automatically for AI.
4 winners of the provinces join them. If winner in top 12 runner-up joins them, if runner-up in top 12, 13th in league joins them, 14th and so on to 16th.

Jan- Feb (Only college football)

League runs Mar -April

National League Finals
May Bank Holiday Weekend
Provincial Finals
June Bank Holiday Weekend

All- Ireland Series 4 weekends in July

Clubs
April - July Club League
August - October Club Championships

November - December All-Ireland Clubs
The timings aren't that different than what we have now are they?

What happens the other 16 counties after the league?

They play provincial Championship.
Ok and then they're finished?

What problem does your proposal solve that the current system doesn't?
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Redhand Santa on September 12, 2018, 11:43:48 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on September 12, 2018, 11:37:04 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 12, 2018, 07:30:02 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on September 11, 2018, 07:11:42 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 11, 2018, 03:53:17 PM
Dublin won the League & All-Ireland.

1st competitive game January, last competitive(oxymoron) game September.  It took 32 weeks to play out 16 games. Too long.

Top 12 teams in National League qualify automatically for AI.
4 winners of the provinces join them. If winner in top 12 runner-up joins them, if runner-up in top 12, 13th in league joins them, 14th and so on to 16th.

Jan- Feb (Only college football)

League runs Mar -April

National League Finals
May Bank Holiday Weekend
Provincial Finals
June Bank Holiday Weekend

All- Ireland Series 4 weekends in July

Clubs
April - July Club League
August - October Club Championships

November - December All-Ireland Clubs
The timings aren't that different than what we have now are they?

What happens the other 16 counties after the league?

They play provincial Championship.
Ok and then they're finished?

What problem does your proposal solve that the current system doesn't?

And the provincials become meaningless as the teams most likely to win them will already have qualified for the all Ireland anyway.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 12, 2018, 11:45:11 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on September 12, 2018, 11:37:04 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 12, 2018, 07:30:02 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on September 11, 2018, 07:11:42 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 11, 2018, 03:53:17 PM
Dublin won the League & All-Ireland.

1st competitive game January, last competitive(oxymoron) game September.  It took 32 weeks to play out 16 games. Too long.

Top 12 teams in National League qualify automatically for AI.
4 winners of the provinces join them. If winner in top 12 runner-up joins them, if runner-up in top 12, 13th in league joins them, 14th and so on to 16th.

Jan- Feb (Only college football)

League runs Mar -April

National League Finals
May Bank Holiday Weekend
Provincial Finals
June Bank Holiday Weekend

All- Ireland Series 4 weekends in July

Clubs
April - July Club League
August - October Club Championships

November - December All-Ireland Clubs
The timings aren't that different than what we have now are they?

What happens the other 16 counties after the league?

They play provincial Championship.
Ok and then they're finished?

What problem does your proposal solve that the current system doesn't?

That's it, no back door. Links league and championship and creates a meritocracy.

Condenses championship, frees up Jan/Feb for Colleges, guarantees August/Sept/Oct for all clubs.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Dinny Breen on September 12, 2018, 11:46:03 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on September 12, 2018, 11:43:48 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on September 12, 2018, 11:37:04 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 12, 2018, 07:30:02 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on September 11, 2018, 07:11:42 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 11, 2018, 03:53:17 PM
Dublin won the League & All-Ireland.

1st competitive game January, last competitive(oxymoron) game September.  It took 32 weeks to play out 16 games. Too long.

Top 12 teams in National League qualify automatically for AI.
4 winners of the provinces join them. If winner in top 12 runner-up joins them, if runner-up in top 12, 13th in league joins them, 14th and so on to 16th.

Jan- Feb (Only college football)

League runs Mar -April

National League Finals
May Bank Holiday Weekend
Provincial Finals
June Bank Holiday Weekend

All- Ireland Series 4 weekends in July

Clubs
April - July Club League
August - October Club Championships

November - December All-Ireland Clubs
The timings aren't that different than what we have now are they?

What happens the other 16 counties after the league?

They play provincial Championship.
Ok and then they're finished?

What problem does your proposal solve that the current system doesn't?

And the provincials become meaningless as the teams most likely to win them will already have qualified for the all Ireland anyway.

Not with an open draw.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Redhand Santa on September 12, 2018, 01:36:32 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 12, 2018, 11:46:03 AM
Quote from: Redhand Santa on September 12, 2018, 11:43:48 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on September 12, 2018, 11:37:04 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 12, 2018, 07:30:02 AM
Quote from: Esmarelda on September 11, 2018, 07:11:42 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 11, 2018, 03:53:17 PM
Dublin won the League & All-Ireland.

1st competitive game January, last competitive(oxymoron) game September.  It took 32 weeks to play out 16 games. Too long.

Top 12 teams in National League qualify automatically for AI.
4 winners of the provinces join them. If winner in top 12 runner-up joins them, if runner-up in top 12, 13th in league joins them, 14th and so on to 16th.

Jan- Feb (Only college football)

League runs Mar -April

National League Finals
May Bank Holiday Weekend
Provincial Finals
June Bank Holiday Weekend

All- Ireland Series 4 weekends in July

Clubs
April - July Club League
August - October Club Championships

November - December All-Ireland Clubs
The timings aren't that different than what we have now are they?

What happens the other 16 counties after the league?

They play provincial Championship.
Ok and then they're finished?

What problem does your proposal solve that the current system doesn't?

And the provincials become meaningless as the teams most likely to win them will already have qualified for the all Ireland anyway.

Not with an open draw.

What difference would an open draw make? Either way if you finish top 12 in the league you qualify for the all Ireland knockout stages. This would make the provincial championships basically irrelevant for 12 teams.
Title: Re: New Championship Format
Post by: Owenmoresider on September 12, 2018, 01:49:20 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on September 11, 2018, 03:53:17 PM
Dublin won the League & All-Ireland.

1st competitive game January, last competitive(oxymoron) game September.  It took 32 weeks to play out 16 games. Too long.

Top 12 teams in National League qualify automatically for AI.
4 winners of the provinces join them. If winner in top 12 runner-up joins them, if runner-up in top 12, 13th in league joins them, 14th and so on to 16th.

Jan- Feb (Only college football)

League runs Mar -April

National League Finals
May Bank Holiday Weekend
Provincial Finals
June Bank Holiday Weekend

All- Ireland Series 4 weekends in July

Clubs
April - July Club League
August - October Club Championships

November - December All-Ireland Clubs
I'd not automatically include the top 12 league teams in such a scenario, perhaps make it the top 6 in D1, top 4 in D2 and the winners of D3 and D4. If the provincial winners allow an extra team to be included in the 16 then the runner-up in D3 should be it. No point in rewarding the team who finish rock bottom in D1 with a place in such a format.

Also start the league in February as it is, even late January and get rid of the FBD League etc.

There may be merit in the provincial club championships being concluded in January, say the semi-finals and final, and carry on as before. Gives a bit more space in the late autumn and winter for counties to get everything completed without putting undue pressure on teams with midweek games or playing the final one day and provincial the next etc.