The Six counties European Election Thread/Poll

[lynchbhoy]

I would say that evil myles opinion that a portion of nationalists would wish to remain under british juristiction is correct....at least initially.

however this opinion again does not cover off what will take people to change their minds (and has been seen in recent years to easily presuade unionists to ditch their 'principles') and that again is money/economics.

It has been said (and I have often re-iterated) that the british gov wish to ditch the money haemorraging North of Ireland.
they are also known to have said that thy know they will have to pay initially some money annually for the upkeep of the northern counties once re-patriated.

its no great mystery.

The british government are the real modern day 'republican heroes' !

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Something which I believe that no-one has touched on yet is the impact of the "possible" breakup of the union (Scotland going it's own way, and to a lesser extent Wales) and what teffect this would have on attitude of the population of England towards the 6 counties.

[T Fearon]

The great unknown surely is in the potential voting preferences of the extremely large section who don't vote. It would be silly to project these as "unionist" voters who don't come out but would at crunch times.

[stibhan]

The great unknown surely is in the potential voting preferences of the extremely large section who don't vote. It would be silly to project these as "unionist" voters who don't come out but would at crunch times.

Exactly. Nationalists have more reason to be disenchanted with voting than Unionists, after all.

[Roger]

The great unknown surely is in the potential voting preferences of the extremely large section who don't vote. It would be silly to project these as "unionist" voters who don't come out but would at crunch times.

Exactly. Nationalists have more reason to be disenchanted with voting than Unionists, after all.

Nationalists seem more Politically aware and motivated.  Maybe they are encouraged by stuff like the predicted 'uncontrollable chain of events'. How long that encouragement can last it is hard to predict, but it probably thrives on unrealistic predictions of the Utopian State being in sight to keep some momentum. As no one knows what that state would mean to anyone, other than the romantic notion of it, it is hard to fathom.  Full marks for perseverance, mind.

[lynchbhoy]

The great unknown surely is in the potential voting preferences of the extremely large section who don't vote. It would be silly to project these as "unionist" voters who don't come out but would at crunch times.

Exactly. Nationalists have more reason to be disenchanted with voting than Unionists, after all.

Nationalists seem more Politically aware and motivated.  Maybe they are encouraged by stuff like the predicted 'uncontrollable chain of events'. How long that encouragement can last it is hard to predict, but it probably thrives on unrealistic predictions of the Utopian State being in sight to keep some momentum. As no one knows what that state would mean to anyone, other than the romantic notion of it, it is hard to fathom.  Full marks for perseverance, mind.

I presume you are either talking about yourself or the british gov here !
yourself in continuing the delusion that the status quo will remain or
the british gov in that they will keep this on the boil until they can hand back the counties to the rest of Ireland a la 'Hong Kong' to china a few years ago

money talks and the utopian state you are referring to is the state of mind that is ultimately selfish, and people will always go with the 'whats in it for me' ideal.
This was demonstrated by 'unionists' that would 'never' (never never) cross the border ...
along came the Celtic tiger and the lure of good money in Dublin and all of a sudden these princples were cast off and william, gregory and peter headed south in pursuit of the riches that the southern Irish were getting - to find that the prejudices they had were in their own minds and there is no catch or problem or impasse with integration at all !!

Some day you will find out the same ! The look on your face would be priceless I'd say !

sure next time yer in Dublin give me a shout and I'll buy you a pint !

[T Fearon]

Roge, it is more likely that nationalists have had to fight tooth and nail for even basic human and civil right for decades, therefore the effort to get out and vote is miniscule by comparison.

[nifan]

Perhaps some unionists would never have crossed the border but many, many would have regularly done so.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Perhaps some unionists would never have crossed the border but many, many would have regularly done so.

Agree that more now would travel down south, but you'd be amazed at the numbers that still have never been there, in my last job, in an office of 9 people (I was the only Catholic) three of them had never been to the south and they were in their 30's, 50's and on was 60+ they were well travelled in the sense that they had all be to the European mainland on more then one occasion and to England and Scotland numerous times.
Obviously this is not a great yardstick to measure things by, but I was amazed at the time.

[Roger]

The great unknown surely is in the potential voting preferences of the extremely large section who don't vote. It would be silly to project these as "unionist" voters who don't come out but would at crunch times.

Exactly. Nationalists have more reason to be disenchanted with voting than Unionists, after all.

Nationalists seem more Politically aware and motivated.  Maybe they are encouraged by stuff like the predicted 'uncontrollable chain of events'. How long that encouragement can last it is hard to predict, but it probably thrives on unrealistic predictions of the Utopian State being in sight to keep some momentum. As no one knows what that state would mean to anyone, other than the romantic notion of it, it is hard to fathom.  Full marks for perseverance, mind.

I presume you are either talking about yourself or the british gov here !
yourself in continuing the delusion that the status quo will remain or
the british gov in that they will keep this on the boil until they can hand back the counties to the rest of Ireland a la 'Hong Kong' to china a few years ago

money talks and the utopian state you are referring to is the state of mind that is ultimately selfish, and people will always go with the 'whats in it for me' ideal.
This was demonstrated by 'unionists' that would 'never' (never never) cross the border ...
along came the Celtic tiger and the lure of good money in Dublin and all of a sudden these princples were cast off and william, gregory and peter headed south in pursuit of the riches that the southern Irish were getting - to find that the prejudices they had were in their own minds and there is no catch or problem or impasse with integration at all !!

Some day you will find out the same ! The look on your face would be priceless I'd say !

sure next time yer in Dublin give me a shout and I'll buy you a pint !

Your view of Northern Ireland and unionists seems outdated. Unionists have long been talking about cross-border co-operation and relations with the Republic have thawed generally and in no small amount to the Republic having changed so much over the last 20 years. I don't really disagree with you citing materialism being a good motivator for voting trends, but I would suggest it is a better driver for maintaining the Union.  

If your citing of principles is important to you, then you must think that nationalists haven't got any principles as there have been more of them living in England than in Ireland for years. Sure the UK even annually pays the ROI money for the pensions of some of those in the Republic of Ireland.  Principles? Comical.

I'm in Dublin usually 3 or 4 times a year, thanks for the pint offer but I'll pass on it.

[Roger]

Perhaps some unionists would never have crossed the border but many, many would have regularly done so.

Agree that more now would travel down south, but you'd be amazed at the numbers that still have never been there, in my last job, in an office of 9 people (I was the only Catholic) three of them had never been to the south and they were in their 30's, 50's and on was 60+ they were well travelled in the sense that they had all be to the European mainland on more then one occasion and to England and Scotland numerous times.
Obviously this is not a great yardstick to measure things by, but I was amazed at the time.

This is something that has been diluted over the years.  At one time the abhorrence for the ROI state would have meant that many in Northern Ireland never crossed the border.  I have heard people advise "don't spend any money" to those crossing the border in the past. It seems to be an older generational thing. The reciprocal thing in the Republic during those times would probably have been "burn everything of their's but their coal". Attitudes have changed greatly over the years. 

[nifan]

Agree that more now would travel down south, but you'd be amazed at the numbers that still have never been there

True enough, slightly different scenario but id find the same amongst some people down south who have not been to the north, though the fear of the troubles would have significantly affected that.

I grew up in a middle class area so it was probably a vastly different story in other areas, but wed have gone to galway, kerry, cork etc for holidays, and with the scouts achill etc.

Also being so close to donegal wed have had the misfortune of spending some time there too. That would probably affect the chances of crossing the border for short hops anyway.

[Roger]

Roge, it is more likely that nationalists have had to fight tooth and nail for even basic human and civil right for decades, therefore the effort to get out and vote is miniscule by comparison.

How does that explain unionists lacking interest in voting even after having the tenacity to face down a prolonged and vicious campaign of murder by a highly sophisticated terrorist organisation to drive them out of the country?

More likely that unionists are just more content with their identity and are getting on with their lives. They just don't seem to need to put a number or x on a piece of paper as it appears to simply elect a host of muppets to be overpaid to argue about the colour of shite. Hard to blame them.

[Gaoth Dobhair Abu]

Agree that more now would travel down south, but you'd be amazed at the numbers that still have never been there

True enough, slightly different scenario but id find the same amongst some people down south who have not been to the north, though the fear of the troubles would have significantly affected that.

I grew up in a middle class area so it was probably a vastly different story in other areas, but wed have gone to galway, kerry, cork etc for holidays, and with the scouts achill etc.

Also being so close to donegal wed have had the misfortune of spending some time there too. That would probably affect the chances of crossing the border for short hops anyway.

Cheeky barsteward, your not welcome back! 

[nifan]

Cheeky barsteward, your not welcome back! 

Actually had a weekend with the family a month or 2 back in Malin, very pleasant too.