The Six counties European Election Thread/Poll

[stibhan]

The great unknown surely is in the potential voting preferences of the extremely large section who don't vote. It would be silly to project these as "unionist" voters who don't come out but would at crunch times.

Exactly. Nationalists have more reason to be disenchanted with voting than Unionists, after all.

Nationalists seem more Politically aware and motivated.  Maybe they are encouraged by stuff like the predicted 'uncontrollable chain of events'. How long that encouragement can last it is hard to predict, but it probably thrives on unrealistic predictions of the Utopian State being in sight to keep some momentum. As no one knows what that state would mean to anyone, other than the romantic notion of it, it is hard to fathom.  Full marks for perseverance, mind.

Perhaps the reason nationalists are politically aware is that the state in which they live was in every respect a 'cold house' for Catholics, and continues to demonstrate aspects of that coldness on a daily basis. My point is, however, that Nationalists who refuse to recognise the state are probably apathetic to voting in its elections--unionists are motivated by the irrational fear of unification. I don't really think your supposed 'uncontrollable chain of events' comes into it.

[Roger]

Perhaps the reason nationalists are politically aware is that the state in which they live was in every respect a 'cold house' for Catholics, and continues to demonstrate aspects of that coldness on a daily basis.

How on earth is it a cold house for Catholics?   

My point is, however, that Nationalists who refuse to recognise the state are probably apathetic to voting in its elections--unionists are motivated by the irrational fear of unification. I don't really think your supposed 'uncontrollable chain of events' comes into it.

Why do unionists have 'irrational fear' of unification?

There are many on here who refuse to recognise the state and write in cartwheels trying to even mention the correct name of the state yet they were rather enthusiastic about this election as witnessed on this thread.  Maybe they aren't representative of the republican/nationalist community but I never noticed any enthusiasm in other quarters anywhere else.

[lynchbhoy]

The great unknown surely is in the potential voting preferences of the extremely large section who don't vote. It would be silly to project these as "unionist" voters who don't come out but would at crunch times.

Exactly. Nationalists have more reason to be disenchanted with voting than Unionists, after all.

Nationalists seem more Politically aware and motivated.  Maybe they are encouraged by stuff like the predicted 'uncontrollable chain of events'. How long that encouragement can last it is hard to predict, but it probably thrives on unrealistic predictions of the Utopian State being in sight to keep some momentum. As no one knows what that state would mean to anyone, other than the romantic notion of it, it is hard to fathom.  Full marks for perseverance, mind.

I presume you are either talking about yourself or the british gov here !
yourself in continuing the delusion that the status quo will remain or
the british gov in that they will keep this on the boil until they can hand back the counties to the rest of Ireland a la 'Hong Kong' to china a few years ago

money talks and the utopian state you are referring to is the state of mind that is ultimately selfish, and people will always go with the 'whats in it for me' ideal.
This was demonstrated by 'unionists' that would 'never' (never never) cross the border ...
along came the Celtic tiger and the lure of good money in Dublin and all of a sudden these princples were cast off and william, gregory and peter headed south in pursuit of the riches that the southern Irish were getting - to find that the prejudices they had were in their own minds and there is no catch or problem or impasse with integration at all !!

Some day you will find out the same ! The look on your face would be priceless I'd say !

sure next time yer in Dublin give me a shout and I'll buy you a pint !

Your view of Northern Ireland and unionists seems outdated. Unionists have long been talking about cross-border co-operation and relations with the Republic have thawed generally and in no small amount to the Republic having changed so much over the last 20 years. I don't really disagree with you citing materialism being a good motivator for voting trends, but I would suggest it is a better driver for maintaining the Union.  

If your citing of principles is important to you, then you must think that nationalists haven't got any principles as there have been more of them living in England than in Ireland for years. Sure the UK even annually pays the ROI money for the pensions of some of those in the Republic of Ireland.  Principles? Comical.

I'm in Dublin usually 3 or 4 times a year, thanks for the pint offer but I'll pass on it.

outdated?
certainly not in 1998/99 and ever since !
- these are the first years whne the multitude of unionists decided to head south (sure there wasnt much point before then anyhow - although a couple obv made their way to Dublin and were far better off for it).
Cross border co-operation has nothing to do with it,sure this can still be done from the comfort of your own area without travelling north or south! ! I did a bit of work for co-operation north in 1993/94 and this is the bizarre observation I could make from having participated !
Unionists would talk about it but in general refused to travel south or actually integrate !(the adults anyhow).

Cant see any logic in citing nationalists principles- we are discussing principles that unionists shouted from the rooftops - never never never (cross the border) and various IRA type dublin scenarions etc etc
so after these lofty and loud protestations against crossing the border, by doing so for the shekels proves my point.

the problem with my view of the general unionist population not having changed is that they still have their old colonial ways entrenched in their minds. They have become dinosaurs. They need to move along into this millenium or face the dismal prospect of being perpetually unhappy with whats coming down the line.

Yes the current status quo is obviously financially better than a move to a united Ireland right now as the finances cannot sustain a re-patriation.
However as britain wish to get rid of the six counties, the majority of Irish people would be happy enough to absorb the six counties (in the right financial climate with proper financial structures in place) the 'utopia ' you talk about will happen, there is no defense to say why it can or would remain past a decade or so.

pity you refuse to meet for a pint, its another missed opportunity for you to see how normal and ameniable folks in the south are !

[Main Street]

Do you think Rodger is that curious to find out what his final pint will taste like?

[stibhan]

Perhaps the reason nationalists are politically aware is that the state in which they live was in every respect a 'cold house' for Catholics, and continues to demonstrate aspects of that coldness on a daily basis.

How on earth is it a cold house for Catholics?   

My point is, however, that Nationalists who refuse to recognise the state are probably apathetic to voting in its elections--unionists are motivated by the irrational fear of unification. I don't really think your supposed 'uncontrollable chain of events' comes into it.

Why do unionists have 'irrational fear' of unification?

There are many on here who refuse to recognise the state and write in cartwheels trying to even mention the correct name of the state yet they were rather enthusiastic about this election as witnessed on this thread.  Maybe they aren't representative of the republican/nationalist community but I never noticed any enthusiasm in other quarters anywhere else.

Oh f**k off. It seemed to be a particularly cold house for Catholics whenever members of its police force decided to allow a loyalist mob to beat a man to death in celebration of Rangers' SPL victory a few weekends ago. The fact that there is no Irish language act as well seems to suggest as much.

On your second point, I don't think the GAAboard could be used as proper evidence for your 'representation'.

[Rossfan]

Why do the people of Crossmaglen have to live in a State to which at least 98% of them have absolutely no allegiance(sp?) ?

[MW]

Because the Free State government rejected the Boundary Commission report

[magickingdom]

Roge, it is more likely that nationalists have had to fight tooth and nail for even basic human and civil right for decades, therefore the effort to get out and vote is miniscule by comparison.

How does that explain unionists lacking interest in voting even after having the tenacity to face down a prolonged and vicious campaign of murder by a highly sophisticated terrorist organisation to drive them out of the country?

More likely that unionists are just more content with their identity and are getting on with their lives. They just don't seem to need to put a number or x on a piece of paper as it appears to simply elect a host of muppets to be overpaid to argue about the colour of shite. Hard to blame them.

or perhaps no such animal exists, like big foot or the loch ness monster. or maybe they'll always stay at home which is the same as not existing if you get my drift. if a ui is voted in will it be.... 'why didnt they come out this time'. if it helps you get thru the day roger keep believing in the stay ay home unionist

[delboy]

As it stands though the stay at home unionist 'yeti' has as much credence as the 'baby machine catholic mother'. Both are rarely sited 

[Roger]

pity you refuse to meet for a pint, its another missed opportunity for you to see how normal and ameniable folks in the south are !

The way in which you have discussed things with me to date have shown me enough of the normal and ameniable manner on offer.  Thanks anyway.