American Sports Thread

Started by magickingdom, October 28, 2007, 06:02:17 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

brokencrossbar1

It was an unreal play but on some respects it was a free go. Game was not lost as it was going to overtime so it was a good percentage shot. Execution was great though and as has been said the high arc to get it in was essential. The reality is that given the closeness of many of these teams at this level this type of 'clutch' play is regular. Small margins and Leonard has been outstanding all the way this season.

magpie seanie

Quote from: gallsman on May 14, 2019, 07:02:13 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on May 14, 2019, 01:30:54 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 14, 2019, 12:02:40 PM
Yeah, when there's 4 seconds on the clock, they should really just keep working away until they get an open look or a simple layup.

Same in American football. I mean, nobody should ever try a hail Mary when there's an open slant route to pick you up 4 yards. Or try an onside kick. They almost never work.

Slightly missing the point I feel. Reaction to it sends out the wrong message "Kawhi called the series" was the main comment. Meaning he took it into his own hands and decided - I'm going to win this. He got lucky. Sports media is full of all these terms like clutch and bottler which are largely bullsit narratives. He's probably a victim to this and felt he HAD to do this as he's the big name player. I strongly disagree with it.

Oh, i get your point perfectly. I'm just pointing out that it's nonsense.

Kawhi's stats in the series were otherworldly levels of good. He did win it for them. That's how basketball works. Your best players with the best experience and the biggest balls take the shot unless there's something obviously better on.

As for getting lucky, shots go in off the rim all the time. Is every shot that isn't a perfect swish lucky? How much of the fact that he knew he had to shoot it at an unusually high arc trajectory as 7 foot Joel embiid closed him down, did so successfully and converted it was down to luck, at opposed to him simply being brilliant at basketball? 5%? 20%? 50%?

No doubt he's good at basketball. No doubt he had a great series. How many shots thrown up by an off balance player under severe pressure bounce 4 times off the rim and go in? His team mate (#43) was wide open for a clean shot at the top of the key but that was never a consideration (opponents clearly knew this too). It was a bad shot, you have to play the percentages. It was a very low percentage shot and he got lucky.

I understand people lionise this type of thing but my point is it shouldn't be that way. Would Kawhi be a worse player if he missed that shot and the Raptors lost in overtime? No. Is he a better player becasue it bounced 4 times on the rim and fell in? No. Popular sports culture would probably disagree with me on both those counts.


gallsman

Oh look, you brought out a Chicago reference. How entertaining.

His teammate at the top of the key, who was available with about a second on the clock was Siakam. The reason he was free was because he set a pick on Ben Simmons to get Kawhi the shot. Simmons went over the top of the pick and hounded kawhi, and was joined by embiid. As you might imagine, trying to pass to a guy when there's a 7 footer and a near 7 footer in your face, with a second on the clock, isn't the easiest thing in the world to do.

He took the only option that was there for him in the circumstances and made it count.

screenexile

Quote from: magpie seanie on May 15, 2019, 09:27:14 AM
This is what a team player does.

https://theundefeated.com/features/nba-finals-history-steve-kerr-17-foot-jumper-clinches-bulls-1997-title/

I call balls!!! How many times has Jordan taken the shot at the buzzer with a team mate standing free??!!! The one time he doesn't and he's the ultimate team player??


magpie seanie

Quote from: gallsman on May 15, 2019, 10:39:56 AM
Oh look, you brought out a Chicago reference. How entertaining.

His teammate at the top of the key, who was available with about a second on the clock was Siakam. The reason he was free was because he set a pick on Ben Simmons to get Kawhi the shot. Simmons went over the top of the pick and hounded kawhi, and was joined by embiid. As you might imagine, trying to pass to a guy when there's a 7 footer and a near 7 footer in your face, with a second on the clock, isn't the easiest thing in the world to do.

He took the only option that was there for him in the circumstances and made it count.

Easier than shooting.

Gabriel_Hurl


Boycey

Zions for New Orleans then, slightly underwhelming. 

magpie seanie


Gabriel_Hurl

The retort of a 9 year old

Gold

Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on May 14, 2019, 07:56:14 PM
It was an unreal play but on some respects it was a free go. Game was not lost as it was going to overtime so it was a good percentage shot. Execution was great though and as has been said the high arc to get it in was essential. The reality is that given the closeness of many of these teams at this level this type of 'clutch' play is regular. Small margins and Leonard has been outstanding all the way this season.

Was class but a free go as you said....v different than a must make bucket when youre 2 down. Still. Class

Gutted as i like the 76ers
"Cheeky Charlie McKenna..."

Maiden1

Steve Kerr has changed basketball completely in terms of shot selection. 5 or 6 years ago a player would get a bolloxing for taking on too many 3 point shots. Now all the top teams have 2 or 3 players that are expected to shoot on site from 3 point range. I think I read somewhere that the stats guys re-did the numbers and worked out it was a more efficient strategy even if in theory 70% shooting 2 point shots (expected points per shot 1.4) is better than 40% at 3 (expected points 1.2 per shot) but shooting from further out guarantees getting more shots off and stretches the defence who before where blank style getting in position protecting the rim, now teams have to come out or the best players will shoot the lights out from beyond arc. When they do come out that leaves more space inside so easier layups. Also turn over from 3 point shot the team are all in position to defend fast break so concede less when ball is turned over.

It would be interesting in gaa if a team had 3 or 4 players that shot fairly well that just fired off shots from 35/40 meters when the other team sat in blanket defence. 1 point no matter where score from might make it not quite as good a strategy.
There are no proofs, only opinions.

magpie seanie


Capt Pat

Patrick Peterson corner back of the Arizona Cardinals has been suspended 6 games for taking performance enhancing drugs. Normally it is 4 games for a first offence but he had a masking agent in his sample as well so it is a six game suspension. This is a big blow for the Cardinals and a bigger blow for Petersons reputation.