Author Topic: The next 10 all Irelands  (Read 9432 times)

seafoid

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Re: The next 10 all Irelands
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2021, 02:30:01 PM »
Galway. Have never gone as long before without at least a final appearance.

That is very striking. Going back a century.
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galwayman

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Re: The next 10 all Irelands
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2021, 02:35:12 PM »
This is up there with being one of the most pointless threads! Imagine looking to the next 10 Premiership winners or the Next 10 Champions League winners. Or doing the same with the Club championship within your county? Who cares?
Hmmm yes it strikes me as the type of thread Martin Breheny might start were he on this forum.

seafoid

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Re: The next 10 all Irelands
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2021, 02:35:20 PM »
This is up there with being one of the most pointless threads! Imagine looking to the next 10 Premiership winners or the Next 10 Champions League winners. Or doing the same with the Club championship within your county? Who cares?
It's a long way to the start of the league.
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seafoid

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Re: The next 10 all Irelands
« Reply #33 on: September 20, 2021, 03:17:20 PM »
Kerry are going through a strange phase. 1 all Ireland in the last decade.
In the previous decade they picked up.Sams against teams they would always beat viz Mayo and Cork but they couldn't beat Tyrone on the big day and they couldn't beat Dublin recently.



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Armagh18

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Re: The next 10 all Irelands
« Reply #34 on: September 20, 2021, 03:44:22 PM »

This year, the championship was a little bit dull in the provincials, but the best four teams made the semis and you had two superbly entertaining games. The interesting thing is that both semi finals ended in draws, and in any other year that would have meant replays, and favourites almost always win replays. Extra time is a completely different animal where momentum and/or one moment of magic is more important.

Dull yes but the game of the championship was a provincial game between Monaghan and Armagh.

Having watched it back a 2nd time Mayo v Dublin was more intriguing than entertaining, the amount of basic errors by two top 4 teams was striking. Dublin known for their strength and conditioning looked way off it especially in extra time and were making mistakes I haven't seen from them since pre Gavin days. There is no doubt the two semi finals going to extra time instead of a replay was a help to Tyrone and Mayo.

Next year the plan is to have the county season finished by July so remains to be seen how much time in the calendar will allow for replays?



I am hoping for a return to the 2017 format. The new proposals are awful.
I'd hope so too but there is a clear push by HQ to get one of the new proposals in place and the Congress was pushed back with that in mind.
Straight knockout and provincials not linked to the All Ireland are a must. Look at Kerry’s route to the semi final vs Tyrones.

Hound

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Re: The next 10 all Irelands
« Reply #35 on: September 20, 2021, 04:04:06 PM »

Straight knockout and provincials not linked to the All Ireland are a must. Look at Kerry’s route to the semi final vs Tyrones.
[/quote]

Would you not have loved if Armagh had a backdoor this year to get at least one more game to see how they are progressing?

The new SFC League system is interesting, and the intercounty players have given it the thumbs up.

Firstly a standalone provincial championship.

Then the new All Ireland SFC League.
Same four NFL divisions.
Each team would have an opportunity to win the Sam Maguire Cup but only the top five in Division 1, top three in Division 2 and Division 3 and 4 winners will advance to the knockout stages (top five in Division 1 and Division 2 winners would go straight into the quarter-finals, the other four facing off in preliminary quarter-finals for the remaining two places).

So you need to qualify for the last 10 by having a good league. Then it's straight knockout.

There are naysayers saying that it would be better to be in Division 4 than Division 1, and how can it be fair to have Leitrim win Division 4 and qualify and Galway come 6th in Division 1 and not qualify, when clearly Galway are better than Leitrim? But that's part of the beauty of the new system, to give an underdog/small county their chance. And Galway (or whoever comes 6th, 7th, 8th) will have had 7 games to try and get into the top 5. If they can't, then they deserve to be out.

Worth a try. (Although I'd prefer if it was 6-3-2-1 qualifier mix)

Cunny Funt

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Re: The next 10 all Irelands
« Reply #36 on: September 20, 2021, 04:10:35 PM »
Straight knockout and provincials not linked to the All Ireland are a must. Look at Kerry’s route to the semi final vs Tyrones.

For many counties the provincial championships is their All-Ireland. For example look at the great interest there was in the build up to Ulster final for Fermanagh or the scenes of pure joy when the likes of Monaghan, Roscommon, Tipperary and Cavan won recent provincial titles can those scenes be reproduced with a straight knock out format?

The provincial championships not linked to the All-Ireland will become pre season competitions whereby managers will play 2nd or 3rd string sides in those games. All that history and tradition simply binned.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 12:19:23 AM by Cunny Funt »

Hound

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Re: The next 10 all Irelands
« Reply #37 on: September 20, 2021, 04:32:00 PM »
Straight knockout and provincials not linked to the All Ireland are a must. Look at Kerry’s route to the semi final vs Tyrones.

For many counties the provincial championships is their All-Ireland. For example look at the great interest there was in the build up to Ulster final for Fermanagh or the scenes of pure joy when the likes of Monaghan, Roscommon, Tipperary and Cavan won recent provincial titles can those scenes be reproduced with a straight knock out format?

The provincial championships not liked to the All-Ireland will become pre season competitions whereby managers will play 2nd or 3rd string sides in those games. All that history and tradition simply binned.
If a Connacht title means as much as you say, teams won't play their 2nd and 3rd strings.

Or does it only mean so much because it's a very handy way for the Connacht champions to reach the latter stages of the AI?


Cunny Funt

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Re: The next 10 all Irelands
« Reply #38 on: September 20, 2021, 04:54:44 PM »
Straight knockout and provincials not linked to the All Ireland are a must. Look at Kerry’s route to the semi final vs Tyrones.

For many counties the provincial championships is their All-Ireland. For example look at the great interest there was in the build up to Ulster final for Fermanagh or the scenes of pure joy when the likes of Monaghan, Roscommon, Tipperary and Cavan won recent provincial titles can those scenes be reproduced with a straight knock out format?

The provincial championships not liked to the All-Ireland will become pre season competitions whereby managers will play 2nd or 3rd string sides in those games. All that history and tradition simply binned.
If a Connacht title means as much as you say, teams won't play their 2nd and 3rd strings.

Or does it only mean so much because it's a very handy way for the Connacht champions to reach the latter stages of the AI?

Means that much when connected to the main championship and its a competition that has a long history and tradition.


Stand alone the Connacht championship will basically make it like the FBD.  More than likely a number of subs/extended panelists will be given a run out, trials on new formations and styles of play will be done in preparation for the championship/league coming up afterwards.

Year one should still get decent crowds but won't be long before the many 1000s that attended provincial championships games will become a few hundred.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 04:56:26 PM by Cunny Funt »

Rossfan

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Re: The next 10 all Irelands
« Reply #39 on: September 20, 2021, 05:23:01 PM »
Does anyone favour the 4 "regions" of 8 at all?
Other than Provincial officers?

The other proposals main weakness us turning the Provincials into a pre season League.
In principle the idea of the NF League being a Championship qualifier is an excellent idea  and is fairer that the 7/6/9/11 Provincials.
Could they not play the Provincials on the traditional knock out format intermingled with the NFL, like soccer cups?
Seed the 4 winners to avoid each other in the early part of the AI series.
Keep the FBD etc as warmer uppers.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 06:07:43 PM by Rossfan »
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An Fhairche Abu

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Re: The next 10 all Irelands
« Reply #40 on: September 20, 2021, 06:42:21 PM »
Galway. Have never gone as long before without at least a final appearance.

That is very striking. Going back a century.
At what point are people going to realise that Galway are going nowhere at the minute? It's systemic at this stage, have we a county board asking what is going wrong with the transition of underage talent to Senior success? Are they doing everything to get Galway to an All Ireland final this decade? Are the Senior panel being given the platform to perform? Is the mgt setup top class in nature? If not why are they still in place? If the money isn't there, what's the plan to get more sponsors and everyone pulling in the one direction?
You can't even get the club results on the offical website at times, we're an absolute joke right now.

sid waddell

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Re: The next 10 all Irelands
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2021, 06:52:22 PM »
Straight knockout and provincials not linked to the All Ireland are a must. Look at Kerry’s route to the semi final vs Tyrones.

For many counties the provincial championships is their All-Ireland. For example look at the great interest there was in the build up to Ulster final for Fermanagh or the scenes of pure joy when the likes of Monaghan, Roscommon, Tipperary and Cavan won recent provincial titles can those scenes be reproduced with a straight knock out format?

The provincial championships not liked to the All-Ireland will become pre season competitions whereby managers will play 2nd or 3rd string sides in those games. All that history and tradition simply binned.
Jim McGuinness's points in his article in Saturday's Irish Times were similar to what you've made there and were well taken, I felt.

I think the abolition of the provincial championships as we have known them would be a disaster.

The problem with the championship as a whole is the general competitiveness, not the format (I'm talking about the 2001-2017 format here, rather than the championships including the Super 8s, which were a dog's dinner). The 2001-2017 format was a very good one in my view. Far too many people are proposing to tackle the symptom of the problem, rather than the cause.

And tackling the symptom will only make the underlying problem worse.



sid waddell

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Re: The next 10 all Irelands
« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2021, 06:58:10 PM »
Galway. Have never gone as long before without at least a final appearance.

That is very striking. Going back a century.
At what point are people going to realise that Galway are going nowhere at the minute? It's systemic at this stage, have we a county board asking what is going wrong with the transition of underage talent to Senior success? Are they doing everything to get Galway to an All Ireland final this decade? Are the Senior panel being given the platform to perform? Is the mgt setup top class in nature? If not why are they still in place? If the money isn't there, what's the plan to get more sponsors and everyone pulling in the one direction?
You can't even get the club results on the offical website at times, we're an absolute joke right now.

Culture. There isn't the culture in Galway that demands success. Same with Cork, Kildare and a load of other underachieving counties.

People can say what they want about Mayo but they have the sort of culture that demands success and they've had it for the last 25 years.

Hound

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Re: The next 10 all Irelands
« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2021, 09:52:47 PM »
Straight knockout and provincials not linked to the All Ireland are a must. Look at Kerry’s route to the semi final vs Tyrones.

For many counties the provincial championships is their All-Ireland. For example look at the great interest there was in the build up to Ulster final for Fermanagh or the scenes of pure joy when the likes of Monaghan, Roscommon, Tipperary and Cavan won recent provincial titles can those scenes be reproduced with a straight knock out format?

The provincial championships not liked to the All-Ireland will become pre season competitions whereby managers will play 2nd or 3rd string sides in those games. All that history and tradition simply binned.
If a Connacht title means as much as you say, teams won't play their 2nd and 3rd strings.

Or does it only mean so much because it's a very handy way for the Connacht champions to reach the latter stages of the AI?

Means that much when connected to the main championship and its a competition that has a long history and tradition.


Stand alone the Connacht championship will basically make it like the FBD.  More than likely a number of subs/extended panelists will be given a run out, trials on new formations and styles of play will be done in preparation for the championship/league coming up afterwards.

Year one should still get decent crowds but won't be long before the many 1000s that attended provincial championships games will become a few hundred.
People said the same when the back door was introduced.  Teams being able to lose would diminish the competition.
The FBD is being abolished for the moment, no matter what the championship format is. If the new league/championship format is brought in, the provincials are replacing the old league, not the FBD.
Same cups, same medals. There are no asterisks beside provincial wins post back door introduction. And there‘ll be no need for asterisks afterwards. It might be harder for some Connacht teams to make an All Ireland semi. It will definitely be harder for Kerry and Dublin. That’s a good thing.
The current provincial system is very unfair to the Ulster counties

sid waddell

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Re: The next 10 all Irelands
« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2021, 11:07:25 PM »
Straight knockout and provincials not linked to the All Ireland are a must. Look at Kerry’s route to the semi final vs Tyrones.

For many counties the provincial championships is their All-Ireland. For example look at the great interest there was in the build up to Ulster final for Fermanagh or the scenes of pure joy when the likes of Monaghan, Roscommon, Tipperary and Cavan won recent provincial titles can those scenes be reproduced with a straight knock out format?

The provincial championships not liked to the All-Ireland will become pre season competitions whereby managers will play 2nd or 3rd string sides in those games. All that history and tradition simply binned.
If a Connacht title means as much as you say, teams won't play their 2nd and 3rd strings.

Or does it only mean so much because it's a very handy way for the Connacht champions to reach the latter stages of the AI?

Means that much when connected to the main championship and its a competition that has a long history and tradition.


Stand alone the Connacht championship will basically make it like the FBD.  More than likely a number of subs/extended panelists will be given a run out, trials on new formations and styles of play will be done in preparation for the championship/league coming up afterwards.

Year one should still get decent crowds but won't be long before the many 1000s that attended provincial championships games will become a few hundred.
People said the same when the back door was introduced.  Teams being able to lose would diminish the competition.
The FBD is being abolished for the moment, no matter what the championship format is. If the new league/championship format is brought in, the provincials are replacing the old league, not the FBD.
Same cups, same medals. There are no asterisks beside provincial wins post back door introduction. And there‘ll be no need for asterisks afterwards. It might be harder for some Connacht teams to make an All Ireland semi. It will definitely be harder for Kerry and Dublin. That’s a good thing.
The current provincial system is very unfair to the Ulster counties

The back door definitely diminished provincial titles to an extent. Like if you're Waterford hurlers winning Munster for the first time in 39 years in 2002 and then getting beaten by Clare in the All-Ireland semi-final are you telling me it didn't leave a sour taste? Or Waterford being beaten by Limerick after winning Munster in 2007?

Or what about Tyrone being beaten by Derry in the 2001 All-Ireland quarter-final after beating them on the way to winning Ulster? The same with Roscommon the same year. Monaghan getting beaten by Tyrone after winning Ulster in 2013 and 2015.

Of course it diminished it to an extent. But it still wasn't meaningless. An Ulster championship played as a pre-season competition in the muck and the rain of February is not an Ulster championship, it's a McKenna Cup.

A championship run off under a league system will suit Dublin and Kerry more than anybody.