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Messages - twohands!!!

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31
GAA Discussion / Re: Congress
« on: October 20, 2021, 07:39:52 PM »

All these counties confirmed in favour of Option B
Meath
Tipperary
Kildare
Cork
Longford
Down
Clare
Louth
Westmeath
Offaly

Warwickshire supposedly leaning towards being in favour

Delegates decide on the day (and from looking at what they have said there's a reasonable chance all of these 4 might vote in favour of Option B)
Wexford - the following is from the Wexford GAA websiter "The Senior Football Team preferred option for 2022 is Proposal B. There was clear support from Club delegates for the need for change to the status quo. It was agreed that Wexford GAAís delegates to Special Congress should consider the debate on Saturday and any proposed amendments and vote in the interest of change and Wexford GAA."
Laois
Waterford
Kerry

Individuals who have come out in favour of Option B
President Larry McCarthy and director general Tom Ryan (although he doesn't have a vote)
Ex-President Sean Kelly in favour
Ex-President John Horan called for a two year trial of Option B

The only people who have come out against it are the 4 Provincial Secretaries.

Roscommon and Sligo confirmed in favour of Option B

Still no county have come out in favour of Option A or the status quo.

32
GAA Discussion / Re: County Manager Merry go round
« on: October 20, 2021, 06:39:51 PM »
King Henry to take over the Galway senior hurlers. More power to him!

Davy a serious contender for shortest managerial reign ever.

Would be interesting to see who was it who broke the news that Davy had the job yesterday.

33
GAA Discussion / Re: Congress
« on: October 20, 2021, 04:56:07 PM »
 I can't help but wonder if one of the possible rumoured amendments to Option B is a middle tier championship after the end of the league stage.

The teams who finish in 6th, 7th, and 8th position in Division 1 and the teams that finish in 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th teams in Division 2 play a 8 team tournament intermediate championship.

With only 8 teams it could be run off quickly enough [less teams than both Sam Maguire and the Tailteann Cup]

Is there anyone who thinks this tweak is not an improvement to Option B?




34
GAA Discussion / Re: Congress
« on: October 20, 2021, 03:41:11 PM »
7 counties have backed proposal B. Cork, Tipperary, Wexford (with clarifications) Meath, Kildare, Longford and Clare.

A total of 23 votes "confirmed" then out of a total of 183

All these counties confirmed in favour of Option B
Meath
Tipperary
Kildare
Cork
Longford
Down
Clare
Louth
Westmeath
Offaly

Warwickshire supposedly leaning towards being in favour

Delegates decide on the day (and from looking at what they have said there's a reasonable chance all of these 4 might vote in favour of Option B)
Wexford - the following is from the Wexford GAA websiter "The Senior Football Team preferred option for 2022 is Proposal B. There was clear support from Club delegates for the need for change to the status quo. It was agreed that Wexford GAAís delegates to Special Congress should consider the debate on Saturday and any proposed amendments and vote in the interest of change and Wexford GAA."
Laois
Waterford
Kerry

Individuals who have come out in favour of Option B
President Larry McCarthy and director general Tom Ryan (although he doesn't have a vote)
Ex-President Sean Kelly in favour
Ex-President John Horan called for a two year trial of Option B

The only people who have come out against it are the 4 Provincial Secretaries.

35
GAA Discussion / Re: Congress
« on: October 18, 2021, 05:46:37 PM »
Quote
https://twitter.com/offtheball/status/1450109412463497223

Michael Reynolds, Leinster GAA Secretary showing what he thinks of the players views here.

36
GAA Discussion / Re: Congress
« on: October 07, 2021, 04:04:52 PM »
Quote
We have 80% of our membership in favour of Proposal B, 90% of our GPA representatives and captains support the series.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/1007/1252296-its-about-fairness-gpa-urge-support-for-option-b/


37
GAA Discussion / Re: The next 10 all Irelands
« on: October 01, 2021, 04:27:28 PM »
As Rossfan so accurately states Proposal A for the new football championship structures IS A DEFINITE non runner for purely realistic and practical reasons. 

If Proposal B does not get at least 60 per cent of the Congress vote on October 23rd we will be left with a return  basically to the Super 8 system which  caters only for the top eight teams in the country.

No system outside the total implementation of a  three category system based on separate Senior,Intermediate and Junior championship as per the County Club Championships in most counties can be completely fair or equitable.That however is not on the table.


Therefore Proposal B, PROVIDED  the Tailteann Cup is marketed properly and played in tandem with the Sam Maguire Cup series up to and including All Ireland final weekend, is by far the fairest proposal to treat ALL of our players in  ALL 32 counties in a fair manner.After all at present every county trains as hard as the Dublins,Mayos,Tyrones and Kerrys of this world.

The delegates to the Special Congress must vote accordingly so that every county has a reasonable chance of some silverware.Proposal B CATERS FOR THAT EVENTUALITY.

Yeah Option B looks very much like the least worst option by a long distance.

Ulster GAA provincial secretary and CEO Brian McAvoy has said that there are "significant weaknesses" in the idea of a league-based All-Ireland Football Championship.

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1250023/?

The weakness of McAvoy's arguments makes me think that Option B might actually have a real chance of being passed.

38
GAA Discussion / Re: Team Announcements
« on: September 27, 2021, 04:49:51 PM »
Given the Thursday 9AM rule, then this makes perfect sense.

I'm sure some counties are better than others at finding out the opposition's 26, so this levels the playing field. And gives media a better chance at doing a preview, and such previews promote the games.

It would seem managers still have the opportunity to move the 26 around, just can't bring someone in from outside the 26, which has been the rule for the last few years anyway.
allow 30.

The rules on expenses currently allow for a senior panel of 32 to receive expenses from Croke Park.
 
At the moment if a county has a panel larger than 32, the individual county board has to cover expenses from those outside the 32.
The expense rules also allow for 9 non players i.e. manager and backroom team.
[There was talk about limiting intercounty panels to just 32 players in total. I wouldn't be surprised if that comes in sooner rather than later.]

I think county boards should have to publish every player on every intercounty panel on the county website.
It's pretty poor behaviour in my opinion for managers to go on about the importance of squad players and then continously publish teams of 15 with no subs.
It's a bit of a thankless job being the 32nd player on an intercounty squad but at least if the full intercounty squad is named for every game the player in question is officially recognised.

39
GAA Discussion / Re: County Manager Merry go round
« on: September 07, 2021, 02:19:37 PM »
Ronan McCarthy gone in Cork.

Very much given the bullet based on the article below.

Quote
The executive of Cork GAA has decided not to extend his term into the final season of their two-year agreement, despite McCarthy's desire and eagerness to do so. It is understood a meeting of the Executive Monday night rubber-stamped the decision.

Record defeat to Kerry, getting relegated to Division 3 and getting caught breaking the Covid ban rolling around on the beach in Youghal some of the low lights.

Evidence of a different approach by the Cork CB.

I'd say if Frank and friends were still running things he'd have every chance of getting to see out his last year.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40387241.html

40
GAA Discussion / Re: Is the Empire of Corruption at an End?
« on: August 24, 2021, 06:23:52 PM »
To stop Limerick dominating the Hurley stuff Cork with 3 times Limerick's population need to get the finger out.
Their Co Board needs to go to the Cork Taoiseach, tell him it will be the end of hurling if Cork aren't winning a scatter of AIs every decade and ask for an oul dig outÄÄÄÄ.
Then tell GAA HQ hurling will die if there isn't a successful Cork hurling team. And ask for twice as much ÄÄÄÄ per player as any other County.
Then get all their Championship games played at home!!

Cork had 220 adult hurling teams registered last year versus Limerick having 90.

Cork      220
Dublin      128
Tipperary      125
Galway      114
Wexford      97
Kilkenny      91
Limerick      90
Waterford      78
Clare      71
Antrim      61
Laois      54
Offaly      48
Meath      43
Westmeath      31
Kildare      27
Kerry      23
Wicklow      22
Carlow      21
Down      20
Derry      16
Donegal      14
Roscommon      14
Monaghan      10
Armagh      9
Sligo      9
Mayo      7
Louth      6
Tyrone      5
Longford      4
Cavan      3
Leitrim      3
Fermanagh      2

Number of teams registered at U20 hurling level last year.

Cork   95
Tipperary   55
Limerick   42
Wexford   41
Galway   39
Kilkenny   38
Clare           32
Waterford   27
Dublin   21
Meath   19
Laois           17
Offaly   13
Kildare   12
Kerry   10
Antrim   9
Carlow   9
Donegal   7
Westmeath7
Derry   6
Roscomon   6
Down   4
Mayo           4
Armagh   1
Fermanagh1
Louth   1
Sligo           1
Wicklow   1
Cavan   0
Leitrim   0
Longford   0
Monaghan   0
Tyrone   0

Number of underage hurling teams registered 2020

Cork   998
Dublin   992
Tipperary   577
Galway   444
Waterford   403
Limerick   400
Clare   344
Kilkenny   329
Kildare   319
Wexford   291
Meath   253
Antrim   179
Offaly   153
Laois   149
Kerry   137
Wicklow   110
Westmeath   90
Donegal   82
Down   82
Carlow   81
Sligo   74
Derry   71
Louth   70
Mayo   63
Armagh   53
Roscommon   50
Tyrone   41
Fermanagh   40
Longford   34
Cavan   32
Monaghan   29
Leitrim   10

Total number of hurling teams registered in 2020

Cork   1313
Dublin   1141
Tipperary   757
Galway   597
Limerick   532
Waterford   508
Kilkenny   458
Clare   447
Wexford   429
Kildare   358
Meath   315
Antrim   249
Laois   220
Offaly   214
Kerry   170
Wicklow   133
Westmeath   128
Carlow   111
Down   106
Donegal   103
Derry   93
Sligo   84
Louth   77
Mayo   74
Roscommon   70
Armagh   63
Tyrone   46
Fermanagh   43
Monaghan   39
Longford   38
Cavan   35
Leitrim   13

41
GAA Discussion / Re: Mayo v Dublin: AISF21 (Saturday 14th August)
« on: August 16, 2021, 03:13:32 PM »
Quote
Provided that he has at least one foot on the ground, a player may make a shoulder to shoulder charge on an opponent-
 (a) who is in possession of the ball, or
 (b) who is playing the ball, or
 (c) when both players are moving in the direction of the ball to play it.

Current rule in the rule book.


42
GAA Discussion / Re: AI Minor Championship 2021
« on: August 16, 2021, 02:36:34 PM »
Don't see a thread on this. What's the story then, who would be considered favourites. Can see no sign of bookie odds but Meath's trimming of Dublin bound to have them up there.

Tyrone v Cork
Sligo v Meath

Based on the games I've seen and the results so far Tyrone would be strong favourites.
Cork squeaked by what was supposed to be the weakest Kerry side in years and were very unimpressive against an ordinary Limerick side.
Sligo in massive bonus territory.
Meath decent without being anything special.
If all goes to form Tyrone will win it out handily enough against Meath in the final.
However they are only young lads and sometimes teams have an off day (especially at U17 level).

43
GAA Discussion / Re: Mayo v Dublin: AISF21 (Saturday 14th August)
« on: August 16, 2021, 02:30:14 PM »
Agree with a few sentiments here. Definitely a red card but highly unlikely small went to do what he did. Small goes for big hits and takes chances with them. Remember his photo of the hit on keaney in the club? Red card all day long and definitely a bit on the wreckless side but highly unlikely he meant it.
Rugby has outlawed these types of challenges and they put the onus squarely on the player to tackle safely. In other words if there is a risk that you mistime a tackle then you have to accept the consequences if it is wrong. No room for lack of intent. Conor Lane was poor for both teams throughout, but it has to be said in this day and age with 4 umpires, 2 linesmen and a fourth official that is not acceptable. Lane was close by as was Deegan and play should have been halted.There was so much being said rightly around the Tyrone Covid out break regarding player safety, yet we can not make the game safe on the field. I do not think for one minute that Small intended to injure McLaughlin but he did not have to consider the outcome of his actions and that is a failure of the rule makers.The modern player in both hurling and football as with rugby is so strong and well conditioned in general they can dish out these hits, but at a basic level the human body is not built to take high impact collisions.


By rights the standing rules committee should bring in specific rules on player safety and having a duty of care to your opponent.

As a thought experiment - would the game of football be massively damaged if the shoulder charge was made completely illegal?
Is it worth having the rule in the game when you have outcomes like McLaughlin suffered?
Even in terms of coaching I think coaches would nearly be better off instructing players not to attempt a shoulder, given that such a high number of them end up in fouls against and yellow cards.
Personally I think that if you made the shoulder completely illegal, in about a year or two no-one would notice.

44
GAA Discussion / Re: U20 All Ireland football championship 2021
« on: August 16, 2021, 02:19:38 PM »
I'd hope moving forward that HQ treat this grade with respect and make it set for the summer months with the final in Croke Park.

Been a super championship - a lot of great games.
Obviously the major negative was poor Brendan ”g ” Dufaig.

I do think the GAA could do a lot more in terms of promotion of this grade - a fair few of the games were almost hidden away on TG4's Youtube channel - I spoke to two different GAA folk about these games and neither of them realised they were being broadcast - I don't know do the GAA as an organisation realise that being on an Irish language station is a real drawback in terms of a serious chunk of viewers in the country - over the years I've had a number of similar conversations with serious GAA people about TG4 - there seems to be a lot of GAA people who will only watch TG4 if ther own county/club is playing and will mute the commentary/there's others who don't watch TG4 at all. I can't help but wonder what sort of viewership these games would have got if broadcast on the GAA's own YouTube channel versus on RTE 2.

45
GAA Discussion / Re: Tyrone v Kerry - All-Ireland SF 2021
« on: August 16, 2021, 02:00:59 PM »
Quote
'The net position is that there are 20 or more in the group who have had positive tests'

The GAA will meet today to plan a way forward after Tyrone stated they will not be in a position to fulfil Saturdayís All-Ireland semi-final against Kerry due to the high number of Covid incidents within their panel. Declan Bogue spoke to joint-manager Feargal Logan who has appealed for a re-fixture of the showdown

Declan Bogue: Feargal, Tyrone have stated they will not be playing Kerry this Saturday, What would you like instead.

Feargal Logan: Ideally, we would like to play a meaningful, competitive All-Ireland semi-final against Kerry.

We earned the right to do that in three tough games in Ulster. And we are somewhat in the hands of others at this stage.

We have had the full cross-section of Covid at this stage in our panel, from hospitalisation, to boys who have had relatively limited symptoms. But we have a heavy body of players in the middle who have been struck down by this virus and who are now in the return to play protocol. We still have some guys who havenít returned to play and we are six days out from the fixture.

We have had expert medical advice, within our own group of medics in the panel, and Professor Paddy Mallon of UCD and St Vincentís who is a disease control expert.

He has provided a written report to us and the report is clear that it is unsafe to play next weekend, and every day that goes by after that, particularly in another week, would make it significantly safer in terms of the return to play protocol.


Now, this virus is a virus that affects the heart and the lungs and to be perfectly honest I am deeply concerned about the overall position, whatever the consequences. I am also deeply concerned about next January when Tyrone try to line up a team of players and they arenít fit and if there are any residual issues arising through this phase of Covid in our panel.

All things considered, this has been the most challenging thing I have ever been involved in, in football. I have been in a lot of challenging positions right through the Troubles and onwards. But this has been the most challenging.


We battled through an Ulster final and we thought we could stay competitive and we took players out of commission where we felt it would be unsafe.

Now, we are unsafe to proceed in six daysí time and that is the difficult position we find ourselves in.

Maybe the experts in Croke Park, their medics, should speak to our medics and the two sets should genuinely sit down and ask: ĎWhat is a safe return to play for all involved?í We are in Croke Parkís hands now. Of course, we would love them to give us three weeks. But we understand that life must go on and Tyrone cannot hold everyone to ransom unduly. Thatís why we hope to get at least another seven, eight days out of it, from where it is at.

DB: How much have the Croke Park authorities been in touch with you on this?

FL: We sent our data down. It is a mess and we deeply regret it. We deeply apologise and regret the inconvenience we are causing Kerry at the moment, and to the Association at large.

But there is a player safety and welfare issue. We cannot cut across it and we find ourselves in this difficult bind. We are bound by this at the moment and we are in no position to tell other people what to do.

We just hope that we can get the benefit of playing the fixture.

DB: Can you tell us the actual numbers of infection in the group?

FL: Well, Croke Park have our spreadsheet of numbers. We have had Public Health in and over the last number of weeks, we have had at least 17 or more positive tests, most of whom have played in this yearís Championship. Four or more in the backroom.

So, the bottom line is other guys have had to isolate, other guys have done lateral flow tests and have been sent home from training, and then they came up negative.

We have a serious problem. Genuinely speaking, the Tyrone county board, and Feargal Logan and Brian Dooher do not go to this length, unduly and without a serious issue and serious concerns. Nothing would please us more than to turn into Croke Park next weekend and play a game.

It hasnít been pretty. We have had one player hospitalised. We are not doing this lightly.

We tested everybody in our ability ahead of the Ulster final with Lateral Flow tests. When we went to Killarney, we did 50-something Lateral Flows before we left.

We are monitoring and mitigating as best we can the risk within our camp.

We then went to Croke Park and Public Health because we were concerned about a week or more ago. They came then on the last Saturday and did a fresh set of tests for those that hadnít been tested. Public health set up a mobile unit in Garvaghey.

The net position is that there are 20 or more in the group who have had positive tests, 17 players, a significant number of whom have played in this yearís Championship.

DB: Are you satisfied with the preventative protocols and measures?

FL: We resisted meeting as a group at any time, up and until we were properly entitled to by the Association.

That was in honour of the Associationís regulations, but also because the public mood and the public opinion in January and February was not good or favourable and we didnít want to trifle with the situation.

Since then and even when we were allowed to open dressing rooms, we didnít open dressing rooms. We stayed outside, there were no shower facilities available. Every meeting we have had has been outside. Open-air video meetings.

If anything did move indoors, such as gym, it was very tightly regulated for any period for players.

We have tried to honour every protocol and every action to do with Covid. Whether people accept that or otherwise is beyond our control. I can assure you of that position.

DB: Are any of these cases due to the group meeting for post-match celebrations?

FL: This is a community-based issue. We have guys on our team who are not given to even going out, they are locked into their football, and they are down with this.

We at all times have endeavoured to stay away and avoid anything to do with this virus as a group, in our work and socially with the players. But regrettably, the best experts in the world have tried to batten down this virus, get to the sources, get to their transmission and we find ourselves in this position, howsoever it arose.

DB: So players who did not attend post-Ulster final celebrations, have it?

FL: Itís a whole cross-section of our panel. We remain an amateur sport and it is in the community.

The numbers in this part of the world, Mid-Ulster, are the highest I believe in Ireland or the UK.

DB: TomŠs ”Sť has asked why this has affected Tyrone and not any of the other panels left in the competition.

FL: The bottom line is, regrettably, a large part of that is just coincidence and luck. And I hope it doesnít find itself in any other panel because I wouldnít recommend this to anybody.

I am just hoping it will not happen to any other panel as it has been very disruptive in our panel.

We donít feel particularly good about the disruption we are causing across Ireland, but we just have to deal with it.

Ultimately it goes back to a player safety and welfare issue and we cannot trifle with that. We have to act in the best interests of our own panel and our own players. Thatís the position we find ourselves in.

DB: How are the training sessions right now?

FL: Thereís an open stand in Garvaghey and the players would throw their bags in that. Now we put a video screen up in that stand and do everything there.

The players park beside the stand and drive away from there.

The main complex in Garvaghey hasnít been opened for virtually a year and a half. The Hub gym, we had some usage of with some strict measures. And we tried to conduct a few things in there, but that is now months ago.

DB: How are you doing your strength and conditioning work?

FL: They are asked to go to their own home gyms, or their private places.

But all of that has been totally gone for weeks now. We had a spell of weather where things were lovely, but the last couple of weeks thereís been a few mucky nights up there. Thatís life, we have to just get into the car and head home.

But there has been no preparation for any game, let alone a game of this importance. And we are going to have to carry that with us, if we do get the opportunity, we are going to hit a point where we have to focus on football.

DB: What are the levels of vaccination in the panel?

FL: There are a series of players in the panel who are vaccinated.

Obviously, vaccination is a personal choice. They were kept updated by us consistently, as to the timings of vaccinations at the different age groups.

That didnít come about until late May, June, until it got in around the age group of this cohort.

In fairness, part of the consideration this year was because it was a compressed league and Championship, we were anxious that if guys were vaccinated they might go under for two weeks. And that might inhibit their performance.

Vaccination has been a conundrum. We didnít make it mandatory across the board. There are some players vaccinated for a variety of reasons, be they on the front line, or work in health.

Itís one of those things, even with the vaccination, people are still getting it and with first-hand experience of that, it lays you low.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/gaa/arid-40359944.html

The dodging and weaving on the post-match celebrations question particularly telling.

The bit about being anxious that lads might be missing for two weeks if they got vaccinated and being worried that it might inhibit their performance is just car crash stuff.

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