gaaboard.com

GAA Discussion => GAA Discussion => Topic started by: sligoman2 on September 21, 2021, 02:28:05 PM

Title: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: sligoman2 on September 21, 2021, 02:28:05 PM
GAA President Larry McCarthy has added his voice to the criticism of those who harshly criticize players.  I agree that a lot of the abuse has been over the top and excessive, what's the general feeling out there on this subject?
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/0921/1248112-gaa-unhappy-with-cowardly-assessment-of-players/
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 21, 2021, 02:54:55 PM
GAA President Larry McCarthy has added his voice to the criticism of those who harshly criticize players.  I agree that a lot of the abuse has been over the top and excessive, what's the general feeling out there on this subject?
https://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/2021/0921/1248112-gaa-unhappy-with-cowardly-assessment-of-players/

These threads are loaded with these comments, so you'll not get too many on here agreeing with the GAA President
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: Armagh18 on September 21, 2021, 02:56:02 PM
Obviously Aidan OíShea being the main target and some of it has been totally over the top. Anytime you hear anything from him he comes across as an absolute gentleman and anyone I know that has met him had said the same. He obviously was poor in the semi and final, nobody including himself would deny it.

And that article of him running topless on the beach that came out after the Dublin game, I looked at it and thought is he actually for real, not a chance I would let that come out in the build up to a final. That all being said, the lad gives his all for his county and has done for years, really hope himself and Keegan get the medal they deserve.

When all is said and done, he and all his teammates are amateur athletes that make huge sacrifices each year for their county. 
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: J70 on September 21, 2021, 03:24:12 PM
Iíd add referees too.
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: Hound on September 21, 2021, 03:41:08 PM
While social media can be a cesspit, this is squarely directed at mainstream media's criticism of Aidan O'Shea, in particular the Joe Brolly rant in whatever paper he wrote it.

Players who take advantage of media attention to build their own profile are also building a rod for their own backs when things don't go well on the pitch.

Dublin in the Lyons and Caffrey years embraced the hype, but got pilliored for it every year when Sam wasn't won. Although at least they were all on the hype-train together and the abuse was shared around!

In recent years, you could probably compare AOS to Bernard Brogan in terms of media attention, but Bernard was lucky enough to have success follow him so didnt have much personal abuse to deal with.
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 21, 2021, 03:54:00 PM
While social media can be a cesspit, this is squarely directed at mainstream media's criticism of Aidan O'Shea, in particular the Joe Brolly rant in whatever paper he wrote it.

Players who take advantage of media attention to build their own profile are also building a rod for their own backs when things don't go well on the pitch.

Dublin in the Lyons and Caffrey years embraced the hype, but got pilliored for it every year when Sam wasn't won. Although at least they were all on the hype-train together and the abuse was shared around!

In recent years, you could probably compare AOS to Bernard Brogan in terms of media attention, but Bernard was lucky enough to have success follow him so didnt have much personal abuse to deal with.

He's mentioned supporters in this, and they are your behind the keyboard trolls who are faceless, at least Brolly and co don't hide, and can and are pulled on their comments
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: Ethan Tremblay on September 21, 2021, 04:02:37 PM
While social media can be a cesspit, this is squarely directed at mainstream media's criticism of Aidan O'Shea, in particular the Joe Brolly rant in whatever paper he wrote it.

Players who take advantage of media attention to build their own profile are also building a rod for their own backs when things don't go well on the pitch.

Dublin in the Lyons and Caffrey years embraced the hype, but got pilliored for it every year when Sam wasn't won. Although at least they were all on the hype-train together and the abuse was shared around!

In recent years, you could probably compare AOS to Bernard Brogan in terms of media attention, but Bernard was lucky enough to have success follow him so didnt have much personal abuse to deal with.

I would agree with that statement there 100%, players who build there own profile within the media will undoubtedly come in for more praise/criticism on their performances, strictly because they are more well known. 

My aging mother in law knows fairly little on football but knows who Aidan OíShea is, so when is is on the ball she knows if he has been good or not, but she wouldn't know O'Donoghue missed the penalty 10 mins after it happened. 



Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 21, 2021, 04:06:24 PM
While social media can be a cesspit, this is squarely directed at mainstream media's criticism of Aidan O'Shea, in particular the Joe Brolly rant in whatever paper he wrote it.

Players who take advantage of media attention to build their own profile are also building a rod for their own backs when things don't go well on the pitch.

Dublin in the Lyons and Caffrey years embraced the hype, but got pilliored for it every year when Sam wasn't won. Although at least they were all on the hype-train together and the abuse was shared around!

In recent years, you could probably compare AOS to Bernard Brogan in terms of media attention, but Bernard was lucky enough to have success follow him so didnt have much personal abuse to deal with.

I would agree with that statement there 100%, players who build there own profile within the media will undoubtedly come in for more praise/criticism on their performances, strictly because they are more well known. 

My aging mother in law knows fairly little on football but knows who Aidan OíShea is, so when is is on the ball she knows if he has been good or not, but she wouldn't know O'Donoghue missed the penalty 10 mins after it happened.

So probably best not having a media profile....
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: Cunny Funt on September 21, 2021, 04:17:53 PM
While social media can be a cesspit, this is squarely directed at mainstream media's criticism of Aidan O'Shea, in particular the Joe Brolly rant in whatever paper he wrote it.

Players who take advantage of media attention to build their own profile are also building a rod for their own backs when things don't go well on the pitch.

Dublin in the Lyons and Caffrey years embraced the hype, but got pilliored for it every year when Sam wasn't won. Although at least they were all on the hype-train together and the abuse was shared around!

In recent years, you could probably compare AOS to Bernard Brogan in terms of media attention, but Bernard was lucky enough to have success follow him so didnt have much personal abuse to deal with.

He's mentioned supporters in this, and they are your behind the keyboard trolls who are faceless, at least Brolly and co don't hide, and can and are pulled on their comments

Brolly feeds those keyboard warriors with his attention seeking nonsense. The usual routine from him of picking the hot topic (Mayo losing another AI final) and attacking one of the most high profile players on the team (Aidan O'Shea)
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: Ethan Tremblay on September 21, 2021, 04:31:21 PM
While social media can be a cesspit, this is squarely directed at mainstream media's criticism of Aidan O'Shea, in particular the Joe Brolly rant in whatever paper he wrote it.

Players who take advantage of media attention to build their own profile are also building a rod for their own backs when things don't go well on the pitch.

Dublin in the Lyons and Caffrey years embraced the hype, but got pilliored for it every year when Sam wasn't won. Although at least they were all on the hype-train together and the abuse was shared around!

In recent years, you could probably compare AOS to Bernard Brogan in terms of media attention, but Bernard was lucky enough to have success follow him so didnt have much personal abuse to deal with.

I would agree with that statement there 100%, players who build there own profile within the media will undoubtedly come in for more praise/criticism on their performances, strictly because they are more well known. 

My aging mother in law knows fairly little on football but knows who Aidan OíShea is, so when is is on the ball she knows if he has been good or not, but she wouldn't know O'Donoghue missed the penalty 10 mins after it happened.

So probably best not having a media profile....

Not necessarily, I would say you have to prepare to take the rough with the smooth, as most people do within the public eye
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: JoG2 on September 21, 2021, 04:37:59 PM
Iíd add referees too.

Slightly off topic, but refs and respect, well lack of it... Was at girls game last night , club game. The abuse from adults spectating towards the ref and opposition players (we're taking 12 / 13 / 14 year old girls) was off the charts. Both teams management behaviour towards the ref was almost as bad. It was embarrassing to listen to
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: Rudi on September 21, 2021, 05:51:58 PM
Iíd add referees too.

Slightly off topic, but refs and respect, well lack of it... Was at girls game last night , club game. The abuse from adults spectating towards the ref and opposition players (we're taking 12 / 13 / 14 year old girls) was off the charts. Both teams management behaviour towards the ref was almost as bad. It was embarrassing to listen to

Derry wans nearly as bad as Mayo ;D
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 21, 2021, 06:18:18 PM
Iíd add referees too.

Slightly off topic, but refs and respect, well lack of it... Was at girls game last night , club game. The abuse from adults spectating towards the ref and opposition players (we're taking 12 / 13 / 14 year old girls) was off the charts. Both teams management behaviour towards the ref was almost as bad. It was embarrassing to listen to

Canít do anything to spectators only report the abuse and the CB needs to challenge the club on their Ďsupportersí and ban home games. As for players and managers if he doesnít deal with them there and then then heís a fool. Report and send them off, otherwise itís a green light for the next refs
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: JoG2 on September 21, 2021, 06:26:56 PM
Iíd add referees too.

Slightly off topic, but refs and respect, well lack of it... Was at girls game last night , club game. The abuse from adults spectating towards the ref and opposition players (we're taking 12 / 13 / 14 year old girls) was off the charts. Both teams management behaviour towards the ref was almost as bad. It was embarrassing to listen to

Derry wans nearly as bad as Mayo ;D

If we were nearly as good as Mayo on the field... But in all seriousness, genuinely shocked at what I heard
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: Gael85 on September 21, 2021, 08:52:59 PM
While social media can be a cesspit, this is squarely directed at mainstream media's criticism of Aidan O'Shea, in particular the Joe Brolly rant in whatever paper he wrote it.

Players who take advantage of media attention to build their own profile are also building a rod for their own backs when things don't go well on the pitch.

Dublin in the Lyons and Caffrey years embraced the hype, but got pilliored for it every year when Sam wasn't won. Although at least they were all on the hype-train together and the abuse was shared around!

In recent years, you could probably compare AOS to Bernard Brogan in terms of media attention, but Bernard was lucky enough to have success follow him so didnt have much personal abuse to deal with.

Something should have been done about this years ago. Look at threads here set up about Diarmuid Connolly years ago. Then you had garbage written by that clown in mayo news calling Dublin players thugs. Social media pages and 42 comment sections are worse for abuse. Opposition supporters mingle at games but social media is just poison.
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: Gael85 on September 21, 2021, 08:58:04 PM
Iíd add referees too.

Slightly off topic, but refs and respect, well lack of it... Was at girls game last night , club game. The abuse from adults spectating towards the ref and opposition players (we're taking 12 / 13 / 14 year old girls) was off the charts. Both teams management behaviour towards the ref was almost as bad. It was embarrassing to listen to

And you be guaranteed most people berating the referee haven't a clue of rules of the game. Soccer is just bad with people attitudes to referees.
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: thewobbler on September 21, 2021, 09:08:52 PM
I donít think knowledge (or lack thereof) of the rules plays any rule.

There is a huge cultural problem in Gaelic Games whereby aggressively calling out the referee after every decision, is not just acceptable, but in a lot of cases is expected of players, mentors and spectators.

Itís rife at every level from u9 to adult, and itís ducking disgusting.

And you know whoís (currently) most to blame? The referees. In the form of the black card, they were given a weapon to brandish some 7 years ago to curtail this from players. Thatís where it has start. And do you know what they did? They hid the thing in their pockets.

I will never ever understand this.
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: Jell 0 Biafra on September 22, 2021, 01:26:54 AM
I'd say that lack of knowledge of the rules does play a role.

For example, people who think the black card is for any cynical foul--as opposed to a clearly defined set of offences-- will feel aggrieved when one isn't given for a foul on their county player, which, while cynical, isn't actually a black card.

Or people who don't know that a red-carded player can be reintroduced during extra time (which is most people, as far as I can tell), will feel that they are being cheated out of it once an opposing red-carded player is reintroduced in extra time. 

These perceived abuses add to a general feeling that the world is out to get you, and that adds to the venting on social media.

Or so it seems to me, at any rate.
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: thewobbler on September 22, 2021, 08:24:21 AM
Jell in my experience, this isnít ignorance of the rules, but a summation of culture in our sport whereby every time a free is awarded against your team, itís okay to abuse the referee with all manner of poorly thought opinion and foul language.
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: JoG2 on September 22, 2021, 08:28:49 AM
I'd say that lack of knowledge of the rules does play a role.

For example, people who think the black card is for any cynical foul--as opposed to a clearly defined set of offences-- will feel aggrieved when one isn't given for a foul on their county player, which, while cynical, isn't actually a black card.

Or people who don't know that a red-carded player can be reintroduced during extra time (which is most people, as far as I can tell), will feel that they are being cheated out of it once an opposing red-carded player is reintroduced in extra time. 

These perceived abuses add to a general feeling that the world is out to get you, and that adds to the venting on social media.

Or so it seems to me, at any rate.

Another member of the match day panel can be introduced to make 15 for extra time. A red carded player (2 x yellows / 1 x Black & 1 yellow = red / straight red) during normal time cannot be brought back on during extra time
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: nrico2006 on September 22, 2021, 08:44:15 AM
I'd say that lack of knowledge of the rules does play a role.

For example, people who think the black card is for any cynical foul--as opposed to a clearly defined set of offences-- will feel aggrieved when one isn't given for a foul on their county player, which, while cynical, isn't actually a black card.

Or people who don't know that a red-carded player can be reintroduced during extra time (which is most people, as far as I can tell), will feel that they are being cheated out of it once an opposing red-carded player is reintroduced in extra time. 

These perceived abuses add to a general feeling that the world is out to get you, and that adds to the venting on social media.

Or so it seems to me, at any rate.

The problem with the rules is that they are constantly changing, its hard to keep up.  I didn't know that a red carded player could be brought back on though, seems strange.  As for the black card, its understandable that people expect every cynical foul to be a potential black card offence given that most commentators seem to be of that belief.  There was a cynical foul in the AIF, can't even remember who was involved, but it was nowhere near being any of the defined black card offences yet the commentator was expecting a black card and was surprised when one wasn't given.  Still don't understand why the black card offences hasn't been updated to simply account for any deliberate cynical fouls either.
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 22, 2021, 11:13:17 AM
A player red carded, or two yellow cards or a yellow card followed by a black cannot play in extra time, never could. the team can start with 15 players, but none of those players sent off in normal time... their offences would need to been seen before a CCC meeting to determined their offence and ban..

The yellow cards from the 'normal' games are squashed.. so it seems even the keyboard warriors are unsure of the rules..

as for applying them wobbler that's down to the referee, his call his interpretation of the rules, not your interpretation of the rules. If you'd like to carry out that function on the pitch for your county then they would love to have a man that knows it all and be able to carry it out correctly
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: thewobbler on September 22, 2021, 12:21:46 PM
Iíll never put myself forward for that tbf MR2. But the gist of my point is that if referees were less willing to interpret verbal abuse from players (and mentors), and more willing to punish it every single time it happens, then 2/3rds of the holy trinity of ref-abusers would have no choice but to soak it upÖ. and should that happen, I would think large parts of the crowd would follow suit, for the culture of the game would be changing.
 
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: TheGreatest on September 22, 2021, 12:42:04 PM
While social media can be a cesspit, this is squarely directed at mainstream media's criticism of Aidan O'Shea, in particular the Joe Brolly rant in whatever paper he wrote it.

Players who take advantage of media attention to build their own profile are also building a rod for their own backs when things don't go well on the pitch.

Dublin in the Lyons and Caffrey years embraced the hype, but got pilliored for it every year when Sam wasn't won. Although at least they were all on the hype-train together and the abuse was shared around!

In recent years, you could probably compare AOS to Bernard Brogan in terms of media attention, but Bernard was lucky enough to have success follow him so didnt have much personal abuse to deal with.

He's mentioned supporters in this, and they are your behind the keyboard trolls who are faceless, at least Brolly and co don't hide, and can and are pulled on their comments

Some of whom are on this forum.
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: yellowcard on September 22, 2021, 01:04:15 PM
I've seen plenty of people wade in with criticism of these so called Mayo criticis. Yet barring Joe Brolly, has there really been that much personal criticism of them, because I haven't seen it. Or perhaps they are just afraid of calling out Brolly directly and instead make it some form of generalised complaint.

If there is a lot of criticism then the people who should be most defending their own players are the Mayo county board and team management. If I'm a Mayo player already hurting after losing an All Ireland final, I don't need to open the newspaper the following morning to be told that I'm a timewaster. The management and county board owe it to their players to defend their reputation but instead it has been mostly other media making some vague form of criticism of the abuse. 
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: PMG1 on September 23, 2021, 02:55:26 AM
A player red carded, or two yellow cards or a yellow card followed by a black cannot play in extra time, never could. the team can start with 15 players, but none of those players sent off in normal time... their offences would need to been seen before a CCC meeting to determined their offence and ban..

The yellow cards from the 'normal' games are squashed.. so it seems even the keyboard warriors are unsure of the rules..

as for applying them wobbler that's down to the referee, his call his interpretation of the rules, not your interpretation of the rules. If you'd like to carry out that function on the pitch for your county then they would love to have a man that knows it all and be able to carry it out correctly

Here is one for you and happened in the London Intermediate final last
Weekend, a player was black carded 2 or 3 minutes before the end of normal time, game went to extra time but given he has only 3 minutes of his 10 minute spell served should he have been allowed to start extra time or not?
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: delgany on September 23, 2021, 06:43:46 AM
A player red carded, or two yellow cards or a yellow card followed by a black cannot play in extra time, never could. the team can start with 15 players, but none of those players sent off in normal time... their offences would need to been seen before a CCC meeting to determined their offence and ban..

The yellow cards from the 'normal' games are squashed.. so it seems even the keyboard warriors are unsure of the rules..

as for applying them wobbler that's down to the referee, his call his interpretation of the rules, not your interpretation of the rules. If you'd like to carry out that function on the pitch for your county then they would love to have a man that knows it all and be able to carry it out correctly

Here is one for you and happened in the London Intermediate final last
Weekend, a player was black carded 2 or 3 minutes before the end of normal time, game went to extra time but given he has only 3 minutes of his 10 minute spell served should he have been allowed to start extra time or not?

His black card ended at the conclusion of full time.
Extra time is deemed a new game, which is why teams can start with 15. A new team sheet is given to ref at inter county  games !
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: JoG2 on September 23, 2021, 08:46:54 AM
A player red carded, or two yellow cards or a yellow card followed by a black cannot play in extra time, never could. the team can start with 15 players, but none of those players sent off in normal time... their offences would need to been seen before a CCC meeting to determined their offence and ban..

The yellow cards from the 'normal' games are squashed.. so it seems even the keyboard warriors are unsure of the rules..

as for applying them wobbler that's down to the referee, his call his interpretation of the rules, not your interpretation of the rules. If you'd like to carry out that function on the pitch for your county then they would love to have a man that knows it all and be able to carry it out correctly

Here is one for you and happened in the London Intermediate final last
Weekend, a player was black carded 2 or 3 minutes before the end of normal time, game went to extra time but given he has only 3 minutes of his 10 minute spell served should he have been allowed to start extra time or not?

His black card ended at the conclusion of full time.
Extra time is deemed a new game, which is why teams can start with 15. A new team sheet is given to ref at inter county  games !

The players 10 mins, or whatever remains of it is carries into extra time.

Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 23, 2021, 09:05:14 AM
A player red carded, or two yellow cards or a yellow card followed by a black cannot play in extra time, never could. the team can start with 15 players, but none of those players sent off in normal time... their offences would need to been seen before a CCC meeting to determined their offence and ban..

The yellow cards from the 'normal' games are squashed.. so it seems even the keyboard warriors are unsure of the rules..

as for applying them wobbler that's down to the referee, his call his interpretation of the rules, not your interpretation of the rules. If you'd like to carry out that function on the pitch for your county then they would love to have a man that knows it all and be able to carry it out correctly

Here is one for you and happened in the London Intermediate final last
Weekend, a player was black carded 2 or 3 minutes before the end of normal time, game went to extra time but given he has only 3 minutes of his 10 minute spell served should he have been allowed to start extra time or not?

His black card ended at the conclusion of full time.
Extra time is deemed a new game, which is why teams can start with 15. A new team sheet is given to ref at inter county  games !

The players 10 mins, or whatever remains of it is carries into extra time.

Its a new game, so shouldn't carry across into new game, but as I said yellow cards are scrubbed and for whatever reason, (this was the case last year) the noting of a player continues!!?? into extra time
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: nrico2006 on September 23, 2021, 09:26:55 AM
Why is it seen as a new game anyway? 
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: Milltown Row2 on September 23, 2021, 09:34:44 AM
Why is it seen as a new game anyway?

No idea, does it happen in any other sport, where a team has full complement of its players if one was sent off in normal time?
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: Wildweasel74 on September 23, 2021, 09:58:48 AM
 See Brolly calling O'Shea a projected captain. I don't know what Brolly crying about. I seen him play for Derry or years, he had many a good game when Derry were on top, but when Derry were struggling he totally disappeared. Big games against Down 94, Tyrone 96.Galway 98, he disappeared when Derry needed him most, so he not in the best position to critise players not performing on the big day.
Title: Re: Cowardly criticism of players
Post by: JoG2 on September 23, 2021, 10:16:06 AM
A player red carded, or two yellow cards or a yellow card followed by a black cannot play in extra time, never could. the team can start with 15 players, but none of those players sent off in normal time... their offences would need to been seen before a CCC meeting to determined their offence and ban..

The yellow cards from the 'normal' games are squashed.. so it seems even the keyboard warriors are unsure of the rules..

as for applying them wobbler that's down to the referee, his call his interpretation of the rules, not your interpretation of the rules. If you'd like to carry out that function on the pitch for your county then they would love to have a man that knows it all and be able to carry it out correctly

Here is one for you and happened in the London Intermediate final last
Weekend, a player was black carded 2 or 3 minutes before the end of normal time, game went to extra time but given he has only 3 minutes of his 10 minute spell served should he have been allowed to start extra time or not?

His black card ended at the conclusion of full time.
Extra time is deemed a new game, which is why teams can start with 15. A new team sheet is given to ref at inter county  games !

The players 10 mins, or whatever remains of it is carries into extra time.

Its a new game, so shouldn't carry across into new game, but as I said yellow cards are scrubbed and for whatever reason, (this was the case last year) the noting of a player continues!!?? into extra time

Whatever of the 10 mins is left at f/t is carried over though into extra time

Re why it's deemed a new game is beyond me.

* Extra substitions
* Start extra time with a full compliment if a team has had
* Yellow cards not carried over

Anything else?

Why it is not a new game:
* Scoreboard after 60/70 remains the same
* 2 x Yellow cards (red) is carried over ie the player is not allowed back on the field for extra time (would be in a replay for eg)
* Black cards (including a player blackcarded and has time remaining beyond full time)
* Manager / member of back room at pitch sent to the stand remains sent off
* Goes down as a single game in results / media / history books / player stats / if a player is currently serving a set amount of games due to suspension

Anything else? It's so Irish the 'new game' malarkey