"GAA is losing ground big time" - McGeeney

Started by Jinxy, March 22, 2018, 10:27:08 AM

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Jinxy

KIERAN McGeeney says the GAA is in danger of getting "caught sleeping one of these days" by other sports stealing the limelight and wants the number of National League games doubled.

The Armagh boss, who captained his county to their one All-Ireland success in 2002, would like to see pre-season competitions abolished in favour of a double-round league with home and away games against each opposition.

With Ireland's rugby team having won an historic Grand Slam on St Patrick's weekend, an event which contributed to the attendance at the All-Ireland club finals being halved from its' decade-long average of around 30,000, McGeeney fears that the GAA will lose out.

"I think the GAA is losing ground big time on rugby and other sports," he said.

"There seems to be an agenda against inter-county teams this past three or four years for some unknown reason.

"There's probably a very small percentage of players that don't like it but it's fair to say the majority of players love playing for their county.

"There seems to be an agenda about over-training and stuff like that. I hate to buck the trend but I can't see the over-training. I think training has got better compared to what we did.

"We used to have pre-season in September to start in October, then another pre-season in January to start in February, and then another pre-season in May to start in June. The training's much more enjoyable now, it's all football orientated.

"We've shortened the league down to nine weeks. If anything, I'd love to see the pre-cup competitions going and just play the leagues home and away, have 14 games on the trot and then go into championship.

"I think that would be more reflective of an intermediate or senior championship then, when you've 14 games. Teams might be a wee bit more open to it then, when they're getting 14 league games every year."

He feels that giving counties more high-profile games would have a double impact, in terms of redressing the training-to-match ratio while also staving off public interest in other major sports.

The Mullaghbawn native believes having a 14-round League campaign would be achievable in the window between January and April, and that counties may be more receptive to the championship being both split-up and shortened if they had the guarantee of more games.

"If you're still down to six or seven, plus one or two maybe in a championship, then why go for a second tier?

"If you're playing 14 games, you're able to try different things and try players, and it's not lengthening the inter-county season.

"It could be done in the same amount of time, but you're just replacing games that are already there. It cuts down the training load because you can't train when you're playing week in, week out, as we know this year.

"There's no hard training, it's small-sided games at the very most in between games, trying to keep boys ticking over.

"The biggest thing for me is it would raise the profile of the game. I think we're going to get caught sleeping one of these days.

"I love rugby and soccer as much as the next person, but we have our own games to promote, and the more games we have of a higher quality, the better.

"I think if you're going to do a [tiered] championship, you have to do a wee bit of groundwork before it. It's not just a matter of 'right, everybody into a 'B' championship'.

"Give teams more games, give fellas a chance to settle into a good season that won't interfere with the club. That way you can shorten the championship and it would be over at the end of July, and the clubs are happy too.

"We should be making more out of our players and giving them more high-profile games. I'd agree with what most of the experts would say – more games and less training," said the Orchard boss.

http://www.irishnews.com/sport/gaafootball/2018/03/22/news/gaa-losing-ground-to-rugby-mcgeeney-1284609/

Is there any evidence to support the broader assertion that the GAA is losing 'market share' to rugby, or is it just more of the same thing we hear any time the rugby team do well?
If you were any use you'd be playing.

Dinny Breen

Kildare has 7 rugby clubs Barnhall (Leixlip/Celbridge), Naas, Cill Dara(Kildare) Newbridge, Clane, Athy, North Kildare(Maynooth/Kilcock). 1 u16 Dev Squad which feeds into the Leinster pathway.

I use to coach that u16 squad and notable professional rugby players produced are Adam Byrne, Joey Carberry, Jeremey Loughman and Adam Coyle, all who have played professionally in the last year. None of those 4 players, 2 of whom are props, with the exception of Byrne, whose brother was on the books of Man United, had shown much interest in GAA. So possibly 1 player was lost to Kildare in that period, in years gone by McFadden(Suncroft), Heaslip(Naas), Johne Murphy(Ellistown) Geordan Murphy(Naas) all showed underage GAA potential so any arguement could be made, just not a very strong one.

So player wise the GAA are not really losing out to rugby whereas Cribben, Brophy, Hurley and Flynn all tried their hand at AFL, a bigger threat if you want to call it that.

Attendance wise at county games Kildare is way down because we are shite and living in Dublin's shadow is killing any enthusiasm for the game. However the club game is pretty vibrant, Moorefield won the Leinster Club, Naas CBS won the Br Bosco Cup (Leinster A schools) and our minor teams are competitive, 3 of the last 5 Leinsters.

The majority of Leinster season ticket holders live in Dublin and Dublin GAA seemingly is the model we should all follow.

I like McGeeney but on this he is talking shite.





#newbridgeornowhere

Owenmoresider

Quote from: Jinxy on March 22, 2018, 10:27:08 AM"There seems to be an agenda against inter-county teams this past three or four years for some unknown reason.
If there is, then it's the likes of McGeeney and his approach to IC management and relations with the clubs that has helped contribute to that.

From the Bunker

There are 8 Rugby clubs in Mayo! There are 25 in Connacht!

Jinxy

Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 22, 2018, 10:59:17 AM
Kildare has 7 rugby clubs Barnhall (Leixlip/Celbridge), Naas, Cill Dara(Kildare) Newbridge, Clane, Athy, North Kildare(Maynooth/Kilcock). 1 u16 Dev Squad which feeds into the Leinster pathway.

I use to coach that u16 squad and notable professional rugby players produced are Adam Byrne, Joey Carberry, Jeremey Loughman and Adam Coyle, all who have played professionally in the last year. None of those 4 players, 2 of whom are props, with the exception of Byrne, whose brother was on the books of Man United, had shown much interest in GAA. So possibly 1 player was lost to Kildare in that period, in years gone by McFadden(Suncroft), Heaslip(Naas), Johne Murphy(Ellistown) Geordan Murphy(Naas) all showed underage GAA potential so any arguement could be made, just not a very strong one.

So player wise the GAA are not really losing out to rugby whereas Cribben, Brophy, Hurley and Flynn all tried their hand at AFL, a bigger threat if you want to call it that.

Attendance wise at county games Kildare is way down because we are shite and living in Dublin's shadow is killing any enthusiasm for the game. However the club game is pretty vibrant, Moorefield won the Leinster Club, Naas CBS won the Br Bosco Cup (Leinster A schools) and our minor teams are competitive, 3 of the last 5 Leinsters.

The majority of Leinster season ticket holders live in Dublin and Dublin GAA seemingly is the model we should all follow.

I like McGeeney but on this he is talking shite.

Yeah, I saw that Dinny.
Great achievement.
It's the first time I've even clocked them playing at 'A' level.
Have they come out of nowhere or is there a lot of work going on there?
If you were any use you'd be playing.

Orchard park

from a manager who put county panels through the hardest possible rigours of training, who couldnt get a Physion to stay with him because of this

none so pure as a reformed whore

Owenmoresider

Quote from: From the Bunker on March 22, 2018, 11:10:30 AM
There are 8 Rugby clubs in Mayo! There are 25 in Connacht!
Where are these 8? Ballina, Castlebar, Westport yes, and? Just the one each in Sligo and Leitrim. Doubt Roscommon has too many so it's still very much Galway-dominated.

Rossfan

Quote from: From the Bunker on March 22, 2018, 11:10:30 AM
There are 8 Rugby clubs in Mayo! There are 25 in Connacht!
25 too effin many >:(

Instead of shooting the messenger has he a point?
Is it just media coverage we're losing out or has the abominable rubby reduced out attendances and participation rates?
Or is it just Paddy on the bandwagon ked by the nose by media cheerleaders?
Davy's given us a dream to cling to
We're going to bring home the SAM

Dinny Breen

Quote from: Jinxy on March 22, 2018, 11:12:27 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 22, 2018, 10:59:17 AM
Kildare has 7 rugby clubs Barnhall (Leixlip/Celbridge), Naas, Cill Dara(Kildare) Newbridge, Clane, Athy, North Kildare(Maynooth/Kilcock). 1 u16 Dev Squad which feeds into the Leinster pathway.

I use to coach that u16 squad and notable professional rugby players produced are Adam Byrne, Joey Carberry, Jeremey Loughman and Adam Coyle, all who have played professionally in the last year. None of those 4 players, 2 of whom are props, with the exception of Byrne, whose brother was on the books of Man United, had shown much interest in GAA. So possibly 1 player was lost to Kildare in that period, in years gone by McFadden(Suncroft), Heaslip(Naas), Johne Murphy(Ellistown) Geordan Murphy(Naas) all showed underage GAA potential so any arguement could be made, just not a very strong one.

So player wise the GAA are not really losing out to rugby whereas Cribben, Brophy, Hurley and Flynn all tried their hand at AFL, a bigger threat if you want to call it that.

Attendance wise at county games Kildare is way down because we are shite and living in Dublin's shadow is killing any enthusiasm for the game. However the club game is pretty vibrant, Moorefield won the Leinster Club, Naas CBS won the Br Bosco Cup (Leinster A schools) and our minor teams are competitive, 3 of the last 5 Leinsters.

The majority of Leinster season ticket holders live in Dublin and Dublin GAA seemingly is the model we should all follow.

I like McGeeney but on this he is talking shite.

Yeah, I saw that Dinny.
Great achievement.
It's the first time I've even clocked them playing at 'A' level.
Have they come out of nowhere or is there a lot of work going on there?

Naas GAA deserve a lot of the credit, they completely restructured their underage and are reaping the rewards, Naas CBS have just plugged into that. Cormac Kirwan the new Kildare GAA Operations officer I believe was the brains behind it all. Although some of the other Kildare posters (Kicking King) might have a better insight. The perception of Naas use to be rugby town but that is now definitely being challenged.
#newbridgeornowhere

Jinxy

It's interesting you should say that re Naas being traditionally seen as a rugby town, Dinny.
Whatever about the merits of McGeeney's argument above, we don't tend to hear much from rugby people that are worried about the rise of the GAA in South County Dublin.
The perception is always, 'Rugby is doing well, this must be at the GAA's expense'.
Is rugby actually doing well?
If so, what metrics are we using.
Participation?
Attendances?
Viewing figures?
If you were any use you'd be playing.

From the Bunker

Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 22, 2018, 11:24:06 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on March 22, 2018, 11:12:27 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 22, 2018, 10:59:17 AM
Kildare has 7 rugby clubs Barnhall (Leixlip/Celbridge), Naas, Cill Dara(Kildare) Newbridge, Clane, Athy, North Kildare(Maynooth/Kilcock). 1 u16 Dev Squad which feeds into the Leinster pathway.

I use to coach that u16 squad and notable professional rugby players produced are Adam Byrne, Joey Carberry, Jeremey Loughman and Adam Coyle, all who have played professionally in the last year. None of those 4 players, 2 of whom are props, with the exception of Byrne, whose brother was on the books of Man United, had shown much interest in GAA. So possibly 1 player was lost to Kildare in that period, in years gone by McFadden(Suncroft), Heaslip(Naas), Johne Murphy(Ellistown) Geordan Murphy(Naas) all showed underage GAA potential so any arguement could be made, just not a very strong one.

So player wise the GAA are not really losing out to rugby whereas Cribben, Brophy, Hurley and Flynn all tried their hand at AFL, a bigger threat if you want to call it that.

Attendance wise at county games Kildare is way down because we are shite and living in Dublin's shadow is killing any enthusiasm for the game. However the club game is pretty vibrant, Moorefield won the Leinster Club, Naas CBS won the Br Bosco Cup (Leinster A schools) and our minor teams are competitive, 3 of the last 5 Leinsters.

The majority of Leinster season ticket holders live in Dublin and Dublin GAA seemingly is the model we should all follow.

I like McGeeney but on this he is talking shite.

Yeah, I saw that Dinny.
Great achievement.
It's the first time I've even clocked them playing at 'A' level.
Have they come out of nowhere or is there a lot of work going on there?

Naas GAA deserve a lot of the credit, they completely restructured their underage and are reaping the rewards, Naas CBS have just plugged into that. Cormac Kirwan the new Kildare GAA Operations officer I believe was the brains behind it all. Although some of the other Kildare posters (Kicking King) might have a better insight. The perception of Naas use to be rugby town but that is now definitely being challenged.

Naas CBS play Rice College Westport in the semi-final. First time Rice College have won Connacht. Westport has been always known as a strong Soccer town in Mayo, but the GAA club seems to have put in a serious shift and are reaping the rewards in underage the last couple of years, as well as winning the Intermediate All-Ireland with a very young team.

yellowcard

I think there is merit in McGeeneys argument but to do this you would have to accept that players will not be available to play club football in the first 6 months of the year. Also bordom levels do set in towards the end of the League once the relegation promotion issues have been settled. I'm not sure a 14 game campaign playing the same teams would have any great appeal as the League draws to a conclusion.

I don't have a problem with more games but I would scrap the provincials and split the AI series into north, south, east and west (4x8 teams) allow every team to enter the AI championship and then run off a second tier competition for teams knocked out of the main competition in the early rounds. The problem is with that of course is that because of the way the GAA is structured, the provincial councils will want to give up their cut of the gate receipts.

Dinny Breen

Quote from: Jinxy on March 22, 2018, 11:31:46 AM
It's interesting you should say that re Naas being traditionally seen as a rugby town, Dinny.
Whatever about the merits of McGeeney's argument above, we don't tend to hear much from rugby people that are worried about the rise of the GAA in South County Dublin.
The perception is always, 'Rugby is doing well, this must be at the GAA's expense'.
Is rugby actually doing well?
If so, what metrics are we using.
Participation?
Attendances?
Viewing figures?

The only threat rugby ever sees the GAA as,  is that "the GAA keep seeing rugby as threat". This tends to manifest itself in seasons starting earlier, winter leagues (wtf wants to play hurling or football in November to January). Fortunately at a ground level common sense mostly prevails with training and games scheduled not to clash.

Rugby though is struggling at senior club level, senior clubs are just money pits with very little money going into infrastructure and your average AIL club costs between €150K and €500k to run, underage at Junior clubs is vibrant with increasing numbers, with the girls game showing the greatest growth. Junior adult level has shown a slight decrease in adult participation but when you play Junior rugby you are given your fixtures in June, league starts late Sept, finishes early March, all cup weekends are noted, free weekends are noted as catch up weekends, 2 week break at Christmas. Not perfect but miles ahead of the GAA.

#newbridgeornowhere

Cunny Funt

14 NFL games? the NFL is grand with 7 games the tight schedule this year will have to be adjusted from now on though.

heffo

Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 22, 2018, 11:24:06 AM
Quote from: Jinxy on March 22, 2018, 11:12:27 AM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 22, 2018, 10:59:17 AM
Kildare has 7 rugby clubs Barnhall (Leixlip/Celbridge), Naas, Cill Dara(Kildare) Newbridge, Clane, Athy, North Kildare(Maynooth/Kilcock). 1 u16 Dev Squad which feeds into the Leinster pathway.

I use to coach that u16 squad and notable professional rugby players produced are Adam Byrne, Joey Carberry, Jeremey Loughman and Adam Coyle, all who have played professionally in the last year. None of those 4 players, 2 of whom are props, with the exception of Byrne, whose brother was on the books of Man United, had shown much interest in GAA. So possibly 1 player was lost to Kildare in that period, in years gone by McFadden(Suncroft), Heaslip(Naas), Johne Murphy(Ellistown) Geordan Murphy(Naas) all showed underage GAA potential so any arguement could be made, just not a very strong one.

So player wise the GAA are not really losing out to rugby whereas Cribben, Brophy, Hurley and Flynn all tried their hand at AFL, a bigger threat if you want to call it that.

Attendance wise at county games Kildare is way down because we are shite and living in Dublin's shadow is killing any enthusiasm for the game. However the club game is pretty vibrant, Moorefield won the Leinster Club, Naas CBS won the Br Bosco Cup (Leinster A schools) and our minor teams are competitive, 3 of the last 5 Leinsters.

The majority of Leinster season ticket holders live in Dublin and Dublin GAA seemingly is the model we should all follow.

I like McGeeney but on this he is talking shite.

Yeah, I saw that Dinny.
Great achievement.
It's the first time I've even clocked them playing at 'A' level.
Have they come out of nowhere or is there a lot of work going on there?
Cormac Kirwan the new Kildare GAA Operations officer I believe was the brains behind it all.

More Dubs helping out Kildare