Just how valuable is your...............................

cadhlancian · April 15, 2010, 02:10:49 AM

GOALKEEPER?
I find it interesting that a lot of managers choose to rotate their goalkeepers throughout the National league. But how important is a goalkeeper actually? Is a good one the difference in winning an All Irleand and not? I think most teams goalkeepers are fairly equal, granted of course there are ones better than others, but substantially , no! Does anyone on here think that a team has won or lost an AllIreland due to their goalkeeper? I personally believe a good team will win anyways!

Never beat the deeler · April 15, 2010, 03:32:15 AM

I know i should let it go, but I remain convinced to this day that Mayo would have won an AI in 96 with Barry Heffernan in goal.
He was widely renowned to be the best shot stopper in Mayo at the time, but his kickout was maybe 5m shorter than average while Maddens was probably 5m longer than average.
Barry was well known to take man, ball and anything else that came in or near his box, and i doubt a ball would have hopped over the crossbar.....

shaund10 · April 15, 2010, 09:20:44 AM

Over the course of 70 mins, a 10M longer kick out each time would have made up for more than one score

AbbeySider · April 15, 2010, 09:32:40 AM

Quote from: Never beat the deeler on April 15, 2010, 03:32:15 AM
I know i should let it go, but I remain convinced to this day that Mayo would have won an AI in 96 with Barry Heffernan in goal.
He was widely renowned to be the best shot stopper in Mayo at the time, but his kickout was maybe 5m shorter than average while Maddens was probably 5m longer than average.
Barry was well known to take man, ball and anything else that came in or near his box, and i doubt a ball would have hopped over the crossbar.....

Would he have had the presence of mind to race out to the 21 yard line to stop a ball bouncing over the bar?

In fairness to Madden though, his kickouts were unreal but Im in tow minds about blaming him for that freak kick by Coyle bouncing over the bar.

Going back to the question at hand. Keepers are essential.
As well as shot stopping they make a lot of decisions from kickouts to where the ball will be worked out from after it lands short. A vocal keeper is vital for defenders and their bark will let lads know if their marker has sneaked inside or is making runs left and right if those defenders are in front.
A good keeper will organise a defence like a general.

Its naive to think a keeper isnt important.

longrunsthefox · April 15, 2010, 10:11:19 AM

Certainly I've seen top keepers making a massive difference... Paddy Cullen with Dublin in the 70s, Martin Furlong's penalty save in 1982 agasint Kerry when he told his players to be ready for the rebound and of course Packie McConnell's foot save against Kerry in 2008. The size of him... a lot of keepers wouldn't have kept that out.

Hardy · April 15, 2010, 10:28:25 AM

Quote from: AbbeySider on April 15, 2010, 09:32:40 AM
Im in tow minds about blaming him for that freak kick by Coyle bouncing over the bar.

Freak?

That's the trouble with misfiring Mayo - they seem to think points are only scored by accident. Coyle knew he was 10 yards out of range for the full shot over the bar, so he placed the kick perfectly behind the full back line and in font of the goalie, so that there was only one possible outcome. When O'Gara hops it a foot from the touchline does everyone in Mayo shout "freak"?

Tubberman · April 15, 2010, 10:51:48 AM

Quote from: Hardy on April 15, 2010, 10:28:25 AM
Quote from: AbbeySider on April 15, 2010, 09:32:40 AM
Im in tow minds about blaming him for that freak kick by Coyle bouncing over the bar.

Freak?

That's the trouble with misfiring Mayo - they seem to think points are only scored by accident. Coyle knew he was 10 yards out of range for the full shot over the bar, so he placed the kick perfectly behind the full back line and in font of the goalie, so that there was only one possible outcome. When O'Gara hops it a foot from the touchline does everyone in Mayo shout "freak"?

Do you honestly believe that Hardy!?

If so, why do we not see more of these type of scores? Maybe that's what forwards are trying when they drop shots into a goalie's arms

longrunsthefox · April 15, 2010, 10:57:28 AM

Right enough it is hard to believe that one...

RedandGreenSniper · April 15, 2010, 11:04:20 AM

Quote from: Hardy on April 15, 2010, 10:28:25 AM
Quote from: AbbeySider on April 15, 2010, 09:32:40 AM
Im in tow minds about blaming him for that freak kick by Coyle bouncing over the bar.

Freak?

That's the trouble with misfiring Mayo - they seem to think points are only scored by accident. Coyle knew he was 10 yards out of range for the full shot over the bar, so he placed the kick perfectly behind the full back line and in font of the goalie, so that there was only one possible outcome. When O'Gara hops it a foot from the touchline does everyone in Mayo shout "freak"?

Coyle was always a great man to put a ball on a sixpence alright.

Bensars · April 15, 2010, 11:04:31 AM

I await with interest the views of a former inter county keeper who has been known to post here on occassion !

Hardy · April 15, 2010, 11:39:23 AM

Quote from: Tubberman on April 15, 2010, 10:51:48 AM
Quote from: Hardy on April 15, 2010, 10:28:25 AM
Quote from: AbbeySider on April 15, 2010, 09:32:40 AM
Im in tow minds about blaming him for that freak kick by Coyle bouncing over the bar.

Freak?

That's the trouble with misfiring Mayo - they seem to think points are only scored by accident. Coyle knew he was 10 yards out of range for the full shot over the bar, so he placed the kick perfectly behind the full back line and in font of the goalie, so that there was only one possible outcome. When O'Gara hops it a foot from the touchline does everyone in Mayo shout "freak"?

Do you honestly believe that Hardy!?
If so, why do we not see more of these type of scores? Maybe that's what forwards are trying when they drop shots into a goalie's arms

Sure if I didn't mean it I'd have put one of these yokes

after it. Conclusive proof that this was a standard part of the team's repertoire is P.J. Gillic's similar effort to draw the first game against Dublin in 1991.

As for why we don't see more of this type of score, well show me anyone with the pin-point accuracy and legendary scoring reputation of a Colm Coyle or a P.J. Gillic who's playing today.

dubai2000 · April 15, 2010, 01:03:44 PM

very valuable - speaking from experience.

a good goalkeeper is the difference in winning and losing a game, that last gasp save, that high ball plucked out of the sky, that call for a defender to drop, or squeeze etc.
Diarmud Murphy saved a pk for kerry v sligo, that was the defining point in kerrys season.

longrunsthefox · April 15, 2010, 03:21:11 PM

His mother could have saved it... the worst penalty ever...

ross4life · April 15, 2010, 03:54:46 PM

Shane Curran haven't seen anything like him before or since, one of the best shot stoppers but always had that moment of madness was never a dull game when he played

his 1-1 v Sligo was something else

Maiden1 · April 15, 2010, 03:56:56 PM

Neil Collins made a vital save again Meath in 1991 and saved Charlie's penalty in 1994 so yes the keeper is vital. Unless your team is 10 points better than the opposition then 1 save has a good chance of being the difference between winning and losing.

Also the new tee has made a huge difference for the keepers. In the past a lot of teams went with the person with the best kickout as even though you might have a better keeper if they couldn't get the ball over the 40 yard line then the defense is always under pressure.