James McClean

Started by thewobbler, July 19, 2015, 12:39:27 PM

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Jim_Murphy_74

Of the 3 big controversies around James McClean I would say:

1) "Abandoning" OWC for Republic of Ireland:

I understand the anger in OWC support over this.  That said, it is likely that kids will grow up in a system and play for team in front of them.  However, I think if James felt "Irish" as in an affinity for the Republic of Ireland team, he should have worked that out by the time he got to U-20s. Also claiming to have felt uncomfortable standing to GSTQ in Windsor before matches when he hadn't actually played there for OWC was a bit of a blooper.  So I get why he is a figure of ire for them.

2) Gesturing to the crowd:

He s long enough a pro to know that the standard of behaviour expected of players in this context is higher than that expect of attendees at soccer matches.  Wrong or right that is reality.  He should  know better.  If he did know better and still did it, then he is an attention seeker.

3) Not wearing the Poppy:

1,000% right in doing as he does.  Has always been reasonable in explaining his reasons.  Frankly it says more about "Poppy Facism" and it's prevalence in certain parts of British society, particularly in the ranks of Northern Irish unionists.

I suspect he is a bit of giddy buck but as a few of his charity gestures have shown, far from worst in the world.

/Jim.

muppet

Quote from: general_lee on October 23, 2015, 10:22:12 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 22, 2015, 10:12:49 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 22, 2015, 10:03:34 PM
Quote from: muppet on October 22, 2015, 06:36:27 PM
Quote from: general_lee on October 22, 2015, 08:56:41 AM
Quote from: muppet on October 21, 2015, 10:46:56 PM
I said that sport and politics, for example, are by definition sectarian. Splitting one group of supporters on one side of an arena and a different group in another is by definition sectarian. Soccer is full of sectarianism. The local derbies around the world are the very definition of sectarianism.
That's a very generous definition.

Really?
Yes, really. It's like saying I'm homophobic for not being attracted to other men.

Can you post up a credible definition of homophobic that backs that up?
Homophobia is the fear and/or hatred of gay men. Hating something is the same as not liking something  I don't like gay men (in that way). Ergo, "by definition", I'm homophobic.

Here is where it all goes wrong.

Using your logic, if not liking gay men 'in that way', is the same as hating gay men, then I take it you hate your mother?  :D
MWWSI 2017

ashman

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2015, 10:56:36 AM
Of the 3 big controversies around James McClean I would say:

1) "Abandoning" OWC for Republic of Ireland:

I understand the anger in OWC support over this.  That said, it is likely that kids will grow up in a system and play for team in front of them.  However, I think if James felt "Irish" as in an affinity for the Republic of Ireland team, he should have worked that out by the time he got to U-20s. Also claiming to have felt uncomfortable standing to GSTQ in Windsor before matches when he hadn't actually played there for OWC was a bit of a blooper.  So I get why he is a figure of ire for them.

2) Gesturing to the crowd:

He s long enough a pro to know that the standard of behaviour expected of players in this context is higher than that expect of attendees at soccer matches.  Wrong or right that is reality.  He should  know better.  If he did know better and still did it, then he is an attention seeker.

3) Not wearing the Poppy:

1,000% right in doing as he does.  Has always been reasonable in explaining his reasons.  Frankly it says more about "Poppy Facism" and it's prevalence in certain parts of British society, particularly in the ranks of Northern Irish unionists.

I suspect he is a bit of giddy buck but as a few of his charity gestures have shown, far from worst in the world.

/Jim.

Hard to argue with that .

muppet

Quote from: ashman on October 23, 2015, 12:53:47 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2015, 10:56:36 AM
Of the 3 big controversies around James McClean I would say:

1) "Abandoning" OWC for Republic of Ireland:

I understand the anger in OWC support over this.  That said, it is likely that kids will grow up in a system and play for team in front of them.  However, I think if James felt "Irish" as in an affinity for the Republic of Ireland team, he should have worked that out by the time he got to U-20s. Also claiming to have felt uncomfortable standing to GSTQ in Windsor before matches when he hadn't actually played there for OWC was a bit of a blooper.  So I get why he is a figure of ire for them.

2) Gesturing to the crowd:

He s long enough a pro to know that the standard of behaviour expected of players in this context is higher than that expect of attendees at soccer matches.  Wrong or right that is reality.  He should  know better.  If he did know better and still did it, then he is an attention seeker.

3) Not wearing the Poppy:

1,000% right in doing as he does.  Has always been reasonable in explaining his reasons.  Frankly it says more about "Poppy Facism" and it's prevalence in certain parts of British society, particularly in the ranks of Northern Irish unionists.

I suspect he is a bit of giddy buck but as a few of his charity gestures have shown, far from worst in the world.

/Jim.

Hard to argue with that .

No problem with any of it.
MWWSI 2017

deiseach

Poppy Watch thread seems to be running late this year.

finbar o tool

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2015, 10:56:36 AM
Of the 3 big controversies around James McClean I would say:

1) "Abandoning" OWC for Republic of Ireland:

I understand the anger in OWC support over this.  That said, it is likely that kids will grow up in a system and play for team in front of them.  However, I think if James felt "Irish" as in an affinity for the Republic of Ireland team, he should have worked that out by the time he got to U-20s. Also claiming to have felt uncomfortable standing to GSTQ in Windsor before matches when he hadn't actually played there for OWC was a bit of a blooper.  So I get why he is a figure of ire for them.

2) Gesturing to the crowd:

He s long enough a pro to know that the standard of behaviour expected of players in this context is higher than that expect of attendees at soccer matches.  Wrong or right that is reality.  He should  know better.  If he did know better and still did it, then he is an attention seeker.

3) Not wearing the Poppy:

1,000% right in doing as he does.  Has always been reasonable in explaining his reasons.  Frankly it says more about "Poppy Facism" and it's prevalence in certain parts of British society, particularly in the ranks of Northern Irish unionists.

I suspect he is a bit of giddy buck but as a few of his charity gestures have shown, far from worst in the world.

/Jim.

the only thing i would have say against the above is this line - "then he is an attention seeker".

yes he is a pro, yes he should probably know better, but if he is getting a lot of real hatred from the crowd saying horrible shit for 90minutes in your ear, you would be tempted to respond with some kind of gesture. right or wrong. some people can take that crap and smile back/give a thumbs up, but some others struggle with it. its a bit harsh to call him an attention seeker IMO.
its up to West Brom to help him through these situations in the appropriate manner and get him mentally stronger to deal with these situations. man manage.

other than that, agree with the rest Jim.
An amateur requires a personal commitment that money cannot buy

Franko

Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2015, 10:56:36 AM
Of the 3 big controversies around James McClean I would say:

1) "Abandoning" OWC for Republic of Ireland:

I understand the anger in OWC support over this.  That said, it is likely that kids will grow up in a system and play for team in front of them.  However, I think if James felt "Irish" as in an affinity for the Republic of Ireland team, he should have worked that out by the time he got to U-20s. Also claiming to have felt uncomfortable standing to GSTQ in Windsor before matches when he hadn't actually played there for OWC was a bit of a blooper.  So I get why he is a figure of ire for them.

2) Gesturing to the crowd:

He s long enough a pro to know that the standard of behaviour expected of players in this context is higher than that expect of attendees at soccer matches.  Wrong or right that is reality.  He should  know better.  If he did know better and still did it, then he is an attention seeker.

3) Not wearing the Poppy:

1,000% right in doing as he does.  Has always been reasonable in explaining his reasons.  Frankly it says more about "Poppy Facism" and it's prevalence in certain parts of British society, particularly in the ranks of Northern Irish unionists.

I suspect he is a bit of giddy buck but as a few of his charity gestures have shown, far from worst in the world.

/Jim.

Like finbar, I've no problem with any of it apart from the attention seeker part.  He was unable to control himself in the face of provocation when his profession would dictate (rightly or wrongly) that he should have been.  Maybe makes him a bit irrational and hot headed but it doesn't make him an attention seeker.

Jim_Murphy_74

Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2015, 01:47:31 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2015, 10:56:36 AM
Of the 3 big controversies around James McClean I would say:

1) "Abandoning" OWC for Republic of Ireland:

I understand the anger in OWC support over this.  That said, it is likely that kids will grow up in a system and play for team in front of them.  However, I think if James felt "Irish" as in an affinity for the Republic of Ireland team, he should have worked that out by the time he got to U-20s. Also claiming to have felt uncomfortable standing to GSTQ in Windsor before matches when he hadn't actually played there for OWC was a bit of a blooper.  So I get why he is a figure of ire for them.

2) Gesturing to the crowd:

He s long enough a pro to know that the standard of behaviour expected of players in this context is higher than that expect of attendees at soccer matches.  Wrong or right that is reality.  He should  know better.  If he did know better and still did it, then he is an attention seeker.

3) Not wearing the Poppy:

1,000% right in doing as he does.  Has always been reasonable in explaining his reasons.  Frankly it says more about "Poppy Facism" and it's prevalence in certain parts of British society, particularly in the ranks of Northern Irish unionists.

I suspect he is a bit of giddy buck but as a few of his charity gestures have shown, far from worst in the world.

/Jim.

Like finbar, I've no problem with any of it apart from the attention seeker part.  He was unable to control himself in the face of provocation when his profession would dictate (rightly or wrongly) that he should have been.  Maybe makes him a bit irrational and hot headed but it doesn't make him an attention seeker.

Fair enough point, but I guess if he was being irrational I he didn't know better, at least for that moment.

/Jim.

BennyCake

No Poppy on McClean's shirt today.

As they say around here, another the same McClean shirt will do him.

Main Street

#369
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2015, 02:01:43 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2015, 01:47:31 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2015, 10:56:36 AM
Of the 3 big controversies around James McClean I would say:

1) "Abandoning" OWC for Republic of Ireland:

I understand the anger in OWC support over this.  That said, it is likely that kids will grow up in a system and play for team in front of them.  However, I think if James felt "Irish" as in an affinity for the Republic of Ireland team, he should have worked that out by the time he got to U-20s. Also claiming to have felt uncomfortable standing to GSTQ in Windsor before matches when he hadn't actually played there for OWC was a bit of a blooper.  So I get why he is a figure of ire for them.

2) Gesturing to the crowd:

He s long enough a pro to know that the standard of behaviour expected of players in this context is higher than that expect of attendees at soccer matches.  Wrong or right that is reality.  He should  know better.  If he did know better and still did it, then he is an attention seeker.

3) Not wearing the Poppy:

1,000% right in doing as he does.  Has always been reasonable in explaining his reasons.  Frankly it says more about "Poppy Facism" and it's prevalence in certain parts of British society, particularly in the ranks of Northern Irish unionists.

I suspect he is a bit of giddy buck but as a few of his charity gestures have shown, far from worst in the world.

/Jim.

Like finbar, I've no problem with any of it apart from the attention seeker part.  He was unable to control himself in the face of provocation when his profession would dictate (rightly or wrongly) that he should have been.  Maybe makes him a bit irrational and hot headed but it doesn't make him an attention seeker.

Fair enough point, but I guess if he was being irrational I he didn't know better, at least for that moment.

/Jim.
A player is the brunt of vile racist/ethnic abuse all through the match and makes some harmless gesture in response towards those racist fans at the end of the match and they get more annoyed?  I would take a different  perspective than the usual reactionary 'blame the player' 'blame the abused' . To my way of thinking,  blaming the abused is brainless. Blame Neil Lennon for the vile abuse he received while playing in scotland because he deserved it , he earned it. because he was an angry unlikable character, therefore he provoked the response, it was not bigoted abuse because Neil provoked it, it was just normal abuse?
Do you blame the black players for the abuse they receive? Would you pass censure on a black player reacting to racist abuse?
Do you blame Mido for the vile abuse he received?
Of course not, it's not socially acceptable to blame a player of colour, or a player of a different religion  for being the cause of the abuse dished his way
but when it comes to vile abuse dished towards a player of Irish ethnicity, we have plenty lining up to tell the player how to behave in such a manner as not to aggravate these fascist types.
Not a word on sanctioning the idiotic sunderland players or not a word  on the football club to use video evidence to select some of the loud mouthed bigots and ban them from football.
The abuse directed at McClean is redirected racism.

stew

Quote from: Main Street on November 01, 2015, 02:11:26 AM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2015, 02:01:43 PM
Quote from: Franko on October 23, 2015, 01:47:31 PM
Quote from: Jim_Murphy_74 on October 23, 2015, 10:56:36 AM
Of the 3 big controversies around James McClean I would say:

1) "Abandoning" OWC for Republic of Ireland:

I understand the anger in OWC support over this.  That said, it is likely that kids will grow up in a system and play for team in front of them.  However, I think if James felt "Irish" as in an affinity for the Republic of Ireland team, he should have worked that out by the time he got to U-20s. Also claiming to have felt uncomfortable standing to GSTQ in Windsor before matches when he hadn't actually played there for OWC was a bit of a blooper.  So I get why he is a figure of ire for them.

2) Gesturing to the crowd:

He s long enough a pro to know that the standard of behaviour expected of players in this context is higher than that expect of attendees at soccer matches.  Wrong or right that is reality.  He should  know better.  If he did know better and still did it, then he is an attention seeker.

3) Not wearing the Poppy:

1,000% right in doing as he does.  Has always been reasonable in explaining his reasons.  Frankly it says more about "Poppy Facism" and it's prevalence in certain parts of British society, particularly in the ranks of Northern Irish unionists.

I suspect he is a bit of giddy buck but as a few of his charity gestures have shown, far from worst in the world.

/Jim.

Like finbar, I've no problem with any of it apart from the attention seeker part.  He was unable to control himself in the face of provocation when his profession would dictate (rightly or wrongly) that he should have been.  Maybe makes him a bit irrational and hot headed but it doesn't make him an attention seeker.

Fair enough point, but I guess if he was being irrational I he didn't know better, at least for that moment.

/Jim.
A player is the brunt of vile racist/ethnic abuse all through the match and makes some harmless gesture in response towards those racist fans at the end of the match and they get more annoyed?  I would take a different  perspective than the usual reactionary 'blame the player' 'blame the abused' . To my way of thinking,  blaming the abused is brainless. Blame Neil Lennon for the vile abuse he received while playing in scotland because he deserved it , he earned it. because he was an angry unlikable character, therefore he provoked the response, it was not bigoted abuse because Neil provoked it, it was just normal abuse?
Do you blame the black players for the abuse they receive? Would you pass censure on a black player reacting to racist abuse?
Do you blame Mido for the vile abuse he received?
Of course not, it's not socially acceptable to blame a player of colour, or a player of a different religion  for being the cause of the abuse dished his way
but when it comes to vile abuse dished towards a player of Irish ethnicity, we have plenty lining up to tell the player how to behave in such a manner as not to aggravate these fascist types.
Not a word on sanctioning the idiotic sunderland players or not a word  on the football club to use video evidence to select some of the loud mouthed bigots and ban them from football.
The abuse directed at McClean is redirected racism.

Well put.

My question is why is the English FA not looking into this and acting on it, there are opposing players getting after him, their fans chime in and nothing gets done about it? West Brom should be all over this to protect him but no, to investigate would insult the poppy wearers and we can't have that now can we!
Armagh, the one true love of a mans life.

Itchy

Was watching a few premier league games over the weekend and noticed that hardly anyone in the crowd is wearing Poppys. Boo boo to them ira bastards. No surrender etc.

Kidder81

Both sets of fans booing him today apparently

Milltown Row2

Would happen in every stadium ... On a side note great goal
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

Kidder81

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on November 07, 2015, 05:00:34 PM
Would happen in every stadium ... On a side note great goal

Has it been happening in every stadium ?