Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[Evil Genius]

Means the two options left are change the size of Casement or the GAA pays the additional money.

Strangely this may be the cheapest and best option for the GAA.

Submitting yet another plan for a stadium of reduced capacity with estimated build costs of £77M will probably take another two years to complete and pass all the approvals needed and by that stage there'll be an overrun in costs which the GAA will end up picking up anyway and you're left with an inferior stadium.

"Cheapest and Best"?

First, does the GAA have another £33m to add to their existing £15m?
Second, is there any guarantee that by the time it's built, it won't have overrun some more i.e. £48m from the GAA and £62m from Stormont might still not be enough?
Third, the GAA still hasn't received regulatory approval for their second (reduced) submission, never mind the original 40k/£77m plan.

Unless or until they can get round this last, then their only other alternative is to go back to the drawing board (literally) and come up with something more modest which is both feasible and affordable.

Otherwise they're only going to fall prey to this:
https://www.behavioraleconomics.com/resources/mini-encyclopedia-of-be/sunk-cost-fallacy/

[sekibanki]

Could get rid of the fancy roof, or sell naming rights?

There are options, but a third redesign would consume even more cash, which doesn't make much sense if it goes hand-in hand with a capacity reduction. You'd be paying more for less seats and spent so much on repeated design and consultancy that you could build another stadium.

Another cost cutting option could be converting the seated stands to terracing, but given this would actually increase capacity, so is probably out because of safety reasons.

[trailer]

The government and tax payer should cover any shortfall. The GAA already provide hugely for the well being of everyone's life in NI. 30 or 40m is little to get in return.

[Evil Genius]

The government and tax payer should cover any shortfall. The GAA already provide hugely for the well being of everyone's life in NI. 30 or 40m is little to get in return.

What, and other sports and leisure activities don't?

Or maybe they've already got all the money they want or need?

But yeah, you're right, in fact why stop at a measly £30m or £40m (in addition to the paltry £62m already pledged)?

I mean, never mind schools and hospitals and the like, the GAA already provides far more to the well being of everyones life in NI.

Well everyone on one community anyway....

[johnnycool]

The government and tax payer should cover any shortfall. The GAA already provide hugely for the well being of everyone's life in NI. 30 or 40m is little to get in return.

That's really not going to happen Trailer and I think you know it and TBH it wouldn't be a sectarian issue.

Ineptitude on Ulster GAA's part initially compounded by the fall of Stormont and not taking into account the fact that the health service, schools etc etc are already in dire needs.

[trailer]

The government and tax payer should cover any shortfall. The GAA already provide hugely for the well being of everyone's life in NI. 30 or 40m is little to get in return.

That's really not going to happen Trailer and I think you know it and TBH it wouldn't be a sectarian issue.

Ineptitude on Ulster GAA's part initially compounded by the fall of Stormont and not taking into account the fact that the health service, schools etc etc are already in dire needs.

I think the Stormont gov will step in. It's an easy win for them.

[Evil Genius]

The government and tax payer should cover any shortfall. The GAA already provide hugely for the well being of everyone's life in NI. 30 or 40m is little to get in return.

That's really not going to happen Trailer and I think you know it and TBH it wouldn't be a sectarian issue.

Ineptitude on Ulster GAA's part initially compounded by the fall of Stormont and not taking into account the fact that the health service, schools etc etc are already in dire needs.

I think the Stormont gov will step in. It's an easy win for them.

Excuse me, but is there some sort of parallel universe which has another Stormont I've not yet seen?

The finance minister has said the NI Executive faces a shortfall of £600m trying to meet the demands of Stormont departments.

This is even without the added strain of commitments made in the New Decade New Approach document.

Conor Murphy confirmed the Stormont budget had been postponed until the end of March, after the Westminster budget has been delivered.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51620778

[illdecide]

I'm no expert on this and a lot of you are a lot smarter than me (well i'm prob bottom of the class here) but some of the opinion's people are giving on what the GAA should and should not do is bewildering. The big shortfall has come because of the delays and redesigns with extra fee's, delays in all contracts are huge fee's...some will argue the delays are the GAA's fault for not having the design done properly etc etc. The GAA will blame the Government for turning them down blah blah, either way there are delays and delays cost big money so the sooner something happens the better whatever the decision and who comes up with the extra cash is anyone's guess but one thing that can't happen is another proposal declined and back to the design team and the costs just escalate further.

The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium and are the biggest organisation, this debate is about a stadium so i'm not going to get into things like GAA belongs to one community only.

[Milltown Row2]

I think you should get on board with the project. The time for arguing is over.

I don't understand this mindset.

"Yeah, you think its a massive mistake but you need to ignore your opinion and support it".

No. Casement as envisaged was a mistake 5 years ago, its a mistake today and it'll still be a mistake in 10 years time.

In YOUR opinion. The vast majority of gaels in the North don't feel this way.

I cannot say how many "gaels" (GAA fans?) support this latest proposal or not.

But I'm tempted to ask, if it is a "vast majority", why don't you stump up the extra £33m yourselves?

Surely the taxpayer should also have a say in this, since we are contributing £62m? (The "we" includes GAA fans, of course)

I should add that even if it seems a lot, I have no objection to the £62m, which the GAA must be entitled to spend as they wish on a new stadium providing, of course, that it meets the same legal and safety requirements as every other new project of its type.

The vast majority do stump up for Croke every week, they go to games, through the gate and through their club association and other things Croke gets plenty to pay for things

I'm not sure what you mean. By "Croke", do you mean the GAA? If so, the GAA also receives other regular funding from both governments, in recognition of all the other things the Association does. Same for football and rugby too.

But Casement is a separate, stand-alone project, with the funding of it separate and stand-alone from normal, annual budgets etc.

On which point, the three codes have each received an allocation which, whilst uneven, most would accept as being fair and proportionate.

That being so, if the other two codes could get on with it and complete their chosen project within their allocated budget, why cannot the GAA do likewise?

More importantly, why should the GAA get extra funding just because they've screwed up their own project? Why reward failure, incompetence and hubris?

If there is extra money available (there's not), surely it should go to the two other codes for managing their affairs properly or, better still, to other sports which do not receive anything like these sums eg https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/51725152

My point is that there is, should be money there in Croke Park/GAA, they have to stump up the additional money or find less money for a smaller size stadium due to the cluster f**k that is Casement project!

[trailer]

The government and tax payer should cover any shortfall. The GAA already provide hugely for the well being of everyone's life in NI. 30 or 40m is little to get in return.

That's really not going to happen Trailer and I think you know it and TBH it wouldn't be a sectarian issue.

Ineptitude on Ulster GAA's part initially compounded by the fall of Stormont and not taking into account the fact that the health service, schools etc etc are already in dire needs.

I think the Stormont gov will step in. It's an easy win for them.

Excuse me, but is there some sort of parallel universe which has another Stormont I've not yet seen?

The finance minister has said the NI Executive faces a shortfall of £600m trying to meet the demands of Stormont departments.

This is even without the added strain of commitments made in the New Decade New Approach document.

Conor Murphy confirmed the Stormont budget had been postponed until the end of March, after the Westminster budget has been delivered.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-51620778

There's loads of money for two parallel education systems. Social housing separated for Catholics and Protestants. Money for Invest Belfast. Money for ridiculous support schemes. There was money for Windsor and Kingspan. The biggest sporting organisation is entitled to its share from the tax coffers.

[illdecide]

I'm no expert of this and a lot of you are a lot smarter than me (well i'm prob bottom of the class here) but some of the opinion's people are giving on what the GAA should and should not do is bewildering. The big shortfall has come because of the delays and redesigns with extra fee's, delays in all contracts are huge fee's...some will argue the delays are the GAA's fault for not having the design done properly etc etc. The GAA will blame the Government for turning them down blah blah, either way there are delays and delays cost big money so the sooner something happens the better whatever the decision and who comes up with the extra cash is anyone's guess but one thing that can't happen is another proposal declined and back to the design team and the costs just escalate further.

The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium and are the biggest organisation, this debate is about a stadium so i'm not going to get into things like GAA belongs to one community only.

Say the current proposal is passed (which is by no means a given and you can guarantee an objection from residents leading to further delays) and there is no means of making up the £33m deficit. Where does that leave us?

Screwed...

[trailer]

Putting money into Casement makes sense, no matter the cost. It'll be spunked on some other arsehole project that delivers nothing. See A5. Build the f**king thing and be done with it.

[Baile Brigín 2]

I
The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium .

Did/do they though?

[Antrim Coaster]

There's no money for it.
There's no room for it.
There's no need for it.
It's gone on too long.
It has seen Antrim's greatest monetary asset removed from them.
It has left us with no county ground.

There is money and plenty of it. The longer it delays the more it will cost. Sooner it is built the cheaper it'll be.
There's no room for it. ? Doesn't make sense
There is of course a need. There's not a decent GAA stadium in the North capable of hold USFC SF & Finals.
Yes it's gone on too long, more reason to get it done.
Antrim gave it up
And your solution to having no county ground is not to build one?

If we took this attitude to everything nothing would ever be built. Everything has a cost. Sometimes the cost isn't relevant.

Bullshit

Well you did give it up quite easily as the Ulster Council had your CB mesmerised by the bright and shiny new things on offer.

Which is true. As part of the deal with Stormont it was the Ulster Council who were to manage the project in the same way as the IFA and the Ulster branch of the IRFU managed the rebuild of Windsor Park and Ravenhill.

Ulster Council ran roughshod over residents concerns etc. with their plans for a 38,000 stadium in West Belfast.

The management of the project was taken out of the hands of the Antrim County Board who at the same time were responsible for letting the safety certificate expire as they went hook line and sinker for what Ulster Council were promising so they haven't exactly covered themselves in glory either.

Antrim were pressurised by Ulster to sign over the deeds of the stadium which they flatly refused to do.

With no safety certificate from the Belfast City Council the doors were closed to sporting events and as a result the stadium has fallen into a state of disrepair which is a pity because it was one of the finest hurling surfaces in Ireland

[6th sam]

I
The GAA's funding was bigger because they need the bigger stadium .

Did/do they though?

I could be wrong but this was my reading of the situation.

Was the GAA funding not similar to soccer but IFA decided to split monies between renovating Windsor and grassroots. Gaa decided( wrongly IMO) to put all its eggs in one basket, and given guaranteed 30k plus for ulster finals ( note 60k in Croke Park ulster final a few years ago), they thought 38k would be reasonable , and stormont were keen to have one of the 3 stadia able to host big concerts or rugby World Cup international in the North. Regeneration stimulus for West Belfast Also  featured in the decision . Quite rightly , residents had concerns which must be addressed. However it would be hard to  imagine the GAa agreeing to build a stadium with a capacity much less than the expected crowd for their showpiece Ulster final . There is also a concern that there are political elements up here who are delighted to see the GAA under pressure, which has complicated the picture