Messi or Ronaldo - Who's best

Started by toby47, March 14, 2019, 11:29:54 AM

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Messi or Ronaldo - Who's best

Lionel Messi
Cristiano Ronaldo

Niall Quinn

Back to the howling old owl in the woods, hunting the horny back toad

Mike Tyson

Quote from: gallsman on May 02, 2019, 11:20:41 PM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on May 02, 2019, 10:38:32 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 02, 2019, 10:36:02 PM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on May 02, 2019, 10:33:01 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on May 02, 2019, 10:12:39 PM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on May 02, 2019, 06:19:01 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 02, 2019, 05:37:53 PM
Messi average enough for Argentina yet look at his international record and he was one game away from winning the world cup. Top level european footballl is a higher standard than international football and he has been untouchable there.

I'd agree with this and for me that's why I'd have Ronaldo edging it. Consistently performed against the big teams year on year and when he's needed has come up with the goods. His scoring record in the knock out stages is just outrageous.

Ronaldo never really done it in a final though. Bale did for Madrid. Injured for Portugal.

Aye scoring two against Juve probably doesn't count alright.

Not that I'm offering an opinion one way or the other, but that's a strange way to try to counter a suggestion that Ronaldo hasn't done in it finals, given it was a quarter final.

2017 final?

Scored 4 goals in 5 champions league finals.

Edit: 6 finals - forgot about 2009!

Well why didn't you say that before bringing up a quarter final against Juve? Would have made far more sense.

The only CL final of his four with Real that he deserves any credit for was 2017 against Juve. In 2014 he was a showboating twat banging in that last minute penalty when the game was long since over and he was anonymous for the entirety of it. 2016 he was brutal and scored the winning penalty. Last year he was brutal and huffed at Bale scoring


What are you on about? mrdeeds said he doesn't perform in finals and I replied saying he scored 2 against Juve. You brought up a quarter final? :o Whether he deserves credit or not he still has the most goals in the knock out stages and finals in Champions League history.

mrdeeds

Quote from: Mike Tyson on May 03, 2019, 09:08:40 AM
Quote from: gallsman on May 02, 2019, 11:20:41 PM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on May 02, 2019, 10:38:32 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 02, 2019, 10:36:02 PM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on May 02, 2019, 10:33:01 PM
Quote from: mrdeeds on May 02, 2019, 10:12:39 PM
Quote from: Mike Tyson on May 02, 2019, 06:19:01 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 02, 2019, 05:37:53 PM
Messi average enough for Argentina yet look at his international record and he was one game away from winning the world cup. Top level european footballl is a higher standard than international football and he has been untouchable there.

I'd agree with this and for me that's why I'd have Ronaldo edging it. Consistently performed against the big teams year on year and when he's needed has come up with the goods. His scoring record in the knock out stages is just outrageous.

Ronaldo never really done it in a final though. Bale did for Madrid. Injured for Portugal.

Aye scoring two against Juve probably doesn't count alright.

Not that I'm offering an opinion one way or the other, but that's a strange way to try to counter a suggestion that Ronaldo hasn't done in it finals, given it was a quarter final.

2017 final?

Scored 4 goals in 5 champions league finals.

Edit: 6 finals - forgot about 2009!

Well why didn't you say that before bringing up a quarter final against Juve? Would have made far more sense.

The only CL final of his four with Real that he deserves any credit for was 2017 against Juve. In 2014 he was a showboating twat banging in that last minute penalty when the game was long since over and he was anonymous for the entirety of it. 2016 he was brutal and scored the winning penalty. Last year he was brutal and huffed at Bale scoring


What are you on about? mrdeeds said he doesn't perform in finals and I replied saying he scored 2 against Juve. You brought up a quarter final? :o Whether he deserves credit or not he still has the most goals in the knock out stages and finals in Champions League history.

So one final out of all he has played in he has performed. Didn't score crucial goals in others.

Mike Tyson

Quote from: mrdeeds on May 03, 2019, 10:34:45 AM

So one final out of all he has played in he has performed. Didn't score crucial goals in others.

2008 scored United's only goal. So there's two finals he's scored crucial goals. How many of Messi's/Maradona's/Pele's/Brazilian Ronaldo's goals have been scored after they've been 1 or 2 up? They not classed as crucial or performing in those games? As someone mentioned earlier in this thread, no one's mind has ever been changed by a thread like this so pointless exercise going back and forth on points.

My opinion is Ronaldo is a better all round package and has consistently performed against the big teams year on year and when he's needed has come up with the goods, so for me edges Messi.

Denn Forever

I have more respect for a man
that says what he means and
means what he says...

illdecide

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 02, 2019, 11:43:12 PM
This is as stupid as, who's better? Iron Man or Superman! Daft

Agreed, think we should all agree that we had two freaks of nature in the one era
I can swim a little but i can't fly an inch

toby47

Quote from: illdecide on May 03, 2019, 11:21:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 02, 2019, 11:43:12 PM
This is as stupid as, who's better? Iron Man or Superman! Daft

Agreed, think we should all agree that we had two freaks of nature in the one era

I agree, Messi for me  ;D ;D

nrico2006

Quote from: Angelo on May 02, 2019, 06:27:40 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 02, 2019, 05:37:53 PM
Messi average enough for Argentina yet look at his international record and he was one game away from winning the world cup. Top level european footballl is a higher standard than international football and he has been untouchable there.

Bullshit. The World Cup is the biggest stage there is in football. You make do with what you have, you don't have a manager come in and decide to build a team around you and buy superstars who align with your needs.

Messi's stats in the knockout stage of the World Cup are pathetic, is it a goal and a couple of assists in over 1000 minutes of football in the knockout stages? When Argentina made the final in 2014, they did so by being miserly at the back, it was guys like Di Maria and Mascherano who were the star men along the way. Compare his scoring stats with Barca in the latter stages of European football and his scoring stats with Argentina in the latter stages of international football. Its like two different players. Messi relies on his teammates much more than true greats like Maradona or the Brazilian Ronaldo.

You take him out of his ideal setup and he's half the player. R9 (Brazilian one) succeeded and adapted to what was around him. His two knees went go mush before the 2002 WC and after 2 years out of the game he carried his country to a WC triumph. That is the true mark of greatness, it is why international football is the true benchmark of greatness.

The World Cup is the biggest stage but not the highest standard.

That Brazilian team that Ronaldo was on was crap alright.  I don't think you could put anyone ahead of the Brazilian Ronaldo, he was the best I have saw when he was at his best.  Messi carried Argentina to the final in 2014. 
'To the extreme I rock a mic like a vandal, light up a stage and wax a chump like a candle.'

Angelo

Quote from: nrico2006 on May 03, 2019, 01:03:04 PM
Quote from: Angelo on May 02, 2019, 06:27:40 PM
Quote from: nrico2006 on May 02, 2019, 05:37:53 PM
Messi average enough for Argentina yet look at his international record and he was one game away from winning the world cup. Top level european footballl is a higher standard than international football and he has been untouchable there.

Bullshit. The World Cup is the biggest stage there is in football. You make do with what you have, you don't have a manager come in and decide to build a team around you and buy superstars who align with your needs.

Messi's stats in the knockout stage of the World Cup are pathetic, is it a goal and a couple of assists in over 1000 minutes of football in the knockout stages? When Argentina made the final in 2014, they did so by being miserly at the back, it was guys like Di Maria and Mascherano who were the star men along the way. Compare his scoring stats with Barca in the latter stages of European football and his scoring stats with Argentina in the latter stages of international football. Its like two different players. Messi relies on his teammates much more than true greats like Maradona or the Brazilian Ronaldo.

You take him out of his ideal setup and he's half the player. R9 (Brazilian one) succeeded and adapted to what was around him. His two knees went go mush before the 2002 WC and after 2 years out of the game he carried his country to a WC triumph. That is the true mark of greatness, it is why international football is the true benchmark of greatness.

The World Cup is the biggest stage but not the highest standard.

That Brazilian team that Ronaldo was on was crap alright.  I don't think you could put anyone ahead of the Brazilian Ronaldo, he was the best I have saw when he was at his best.  Messi carried Argentina to the final in 2014.

How did Messi carry Argentina to the final in 2014?

They scored 2 goals in 450 minutes of knockout football and conceded none. It was very much a defensive effort for Argentina and it was guys like Di Maria and Mascherano who  were Argentina's outstanding players in 2014. Messi struggled badly to make an impact in the knockout stages.

The final completely passed him by.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

lenny

Quote from: toby47 on May 03, 2019, 12:23:48 PM
Quote from: illdecide on May 03, 2019, 11:21:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 02, 2019, 11:43:12 PM
This is as stupid as, who's better? Iron Man or Superman! Daft

Agreed, think we should all agree that we had two freaks of nature in the one era

I agree, Messi for me  ;D ;D

Messi is better when judged purely on his performances for Barcelona. Ronaldo is however more adaptable and if you put  him in any team in the world he makes it very significantly better. He has been superb for united, real, juve and Portugal. Messi is a genius for barca but average enough with argentina.

rodney trotter

Probaly easier for Ronaldo to make an impression at international level, as Portugal were very dependent on him, and seemed a united team. Argentina have and had plenty of star attacking players. Tevez didn't even make the World Cup Squad in 2014 after a brilliant season with Juventus.

The sub who scored the winning goal for Portugal in Euro 16 Eder, wouldn't have got near a Argentina Squad.

Angelo

Quote from: rodney trotter on May 03, 2019, 05:01:40 PM
Probaly easier for Ronaldo to make an impression at international level, as Portugal were very dependent on him, and seemed a united team. Argentina have and had plenty of star attacking players. Tevez didn't even make the World Cup Squad in 2014 after a brilliant season with Juventus.

The sub who scored the winning goal for Portugal in Euro 16 Eder, wouldn't have got near a Argentina Squad.

I'd take the opposite view of that. Messi has a better supporting cast so should have more freedom to impose himself on the game which he has failed to at international level.
GAA FUNDING CHEATS CHEAT US ALL

rodney trotter

He is Argentina's all time leading goal scorer. In the 3 Group games and the second round game in the 2014 World Cup he was named man of the match.  He might not have performed as well in the final but neither did the supporting Cast


tonto1888

Quote from: lenny on May 03, 2019, 02:11:16 PM
Quote from: toby47 on May 03, 2019, 12:23:48 PM
Quote from: illdecide on May 03, 2019, 11:21:44 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 02, 2019, 11:43:12 PM
This is as stupid as, who's better? Iron Man or Superman! Daft

Agreed, think we should all agree that we had two freaks of nature in the one era

I agree, Messi for me  ;D ;D

Messi is better when judged purely on his performances for Barcelona. Ronaldo is however more adaptable and if you put  him in any team in the world he makes it very significantly better. He has been superb for united, real, juve and Portugal. Messi is a genius for barca but average enough with argentina.

65 goals in 129 appearances for Argentina. I'd say that's better than average

Cunny Funt

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 02, 2019, 11:43:12 PM
This is as stupid as, who's better? Iron Man or Superman! Daft

Iron man v Batman would be a better comparison. Two rich men in fancy suits with gadgets.