Casement Park in line for major overhaul - 40,000 all seater Stadium.

[LCohen]

Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.

Try that again...

When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh

The split was 50/50, as it remains. They both own the building but the egg chasers own the land. Standard enough The Times article breathlesslytells us what's in the piblic domain.

I thought politicans were pushing for the also broke IRFU to buy the FAI out rather than it be a serious solution.

I don't think it's hush hush. There was a book and tv show. They refinanced the mortgage on LR and were less aggresdive with the repayment schedule.

Unusually for you, mostly correct except the FAI only have a 50 year lease on the stadium as EG stated, not a 50% ownership.

But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.

50 year lease on the land, 50% ownership of the building on said land. Why would the FAI have a mortgage on a lease?

Because they needed one presumably

If you buy an apartment do you get ownership of the land it's built on?

Relevance here?

If the FAI don't own half of LR, nobody owns their apartment. Because it's the exact same construct

The thing that you don't understand is that well you don't understand.

The owner of a third floor apartment owns a third floor apartment. They don't own the ground below it or the 2 apartments in between.

FAI have a medium to long term lease on the Aviva. What they own is a lease. Which is valuable. What they own at the end of the lease is nothing. If the stadium is worth very little at that juncture then that very little belongs to IRFU. If the IRFU and FAI decide to go again they go again. If IRFU are in a position to go it alone then FAI can go somewhere else or seek some sort of rent paying agreement.

Now tell me again the relevance of the apartment?

[twohands!!!]

UEFA rules state that the minimum capacity for a stadium is 30,000

Clones current capacity is 29,000 (according to Wikipedia) - surely it wouldn't take that much work to get it over the 30k mark. 

Probably the only question that remains is who are the lucky two teams who get to play savour the Clones atmosphere.

[Milltown Row2]

UEFA rules state that the minimum capacity for a stadium is 30,000

Clones current capacity is 29,000 (according to Wikipedia) - surely it wouldn't take that much work to get it over the 30k mark. 

Probably the only question that remains is who are the lucky two teams who get to play savour the Clones atmosphere.

Or traffic and accommodation around it

[RedHand88]

UEFA rules state that the minimum capacity for a stadium is 30,000

Clones current capacity is 29,000 (according to Wikipedia) - surely it wouldn't take that much work to get it over the 30k mark. 

Probably the only question that remains is who are the lucky two teams who get to play savour the Clones atmosphere.

Or traffic and accommodation around it

Imagine Ronaldo in the Creighton Hotel.

[Milltown Row2]

UEFA rules state that the minimum capacity for a stadium is 30,000

Clones current capacity is 29,000 (according to Wikipedia) - surely it wouldn't take that much work to get it over the 30k mark. 

Probably the only question that remains is who are the lucky two teams who get to play savour the Clones atmosphere.

Or traffic and accommodation around it

Imagine Ronaldo in the Creighton Hotel.

He'd need to work out how to stay fit to play

[Baile Brigín 2]

Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.

Try that again...

When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh

The split was 50/50, as it remains. They both own the building but the egg chasers own the land. Standard enough The Times article breathlesslytells us what's in the piblic domain.

I thought politicans were pushing for the also broke IRFU to buy the FAI out rather than it be a serious solution.

I don't think it's hush hush. There was a book and tv show. They refinanced the mortgage on LR and were less aggresdive with the repayment schedule.

Unusually for you, mostly correct except the FAI only have a 50 year lease on the stadium as EG stated, not a 50% ownership.

But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.

50 year lease on the land, 50% ownership of the building on said land. Why would the FAI have a mortgage on a lease?

Because they needed one presumably

If you buy an apartment do you get ownership of the land it's built on?

Relevance here?

If the FAI don't own half of LR, nobody owns their apartment. Because it's the exact same construct

The thing that you don't understand is that well you don't understand.

The owner of a third floor apartment owns a third floor apartment. They don't own the ground below it or the 2 apartments in between.

FAI have a medium to long term lease on the Aviva. What they own is a lease. Which is valuable. What they own at the end of the lease is nothing. If the stadium is worth very little at that juncture then that very little belongs to IRFU. If the IRFU and FAI decide to go again they go again. If IRFU are in a position to go it alone then FAI can go somewhere else or seek some sort of rent paying agreement.

Now tell me again the relevance of the apartment?

Sigh. The FAI own half a building. The IRFU own the other half. The IRFU own the land the buildimg is on, so the FAI pay them a nominal ground rent. The expectation is the building has a lifespan of 60 years and then as you say they will make a call to rebuild or go seperate ways. In other words exactly like owning an apartment. There is no lease.

[Main Street]

Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.

Try that again...

When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh

The split was 50/50, as it remains. They both own the building but the egg chasers own the land. Standard enough The Times article breathlesslytells us what's in the piblic domain.

I thought politicans were pushing for the also broke IRFU to buy the FAI out rather than it be a serious solution.

I don't think it's hush hush. There was a book and tv show. They refinanced the mortgage on LR and were less aggresdive with the repayment schedule.

Unusually for you, mostly correct except the FAI only have a 50 year lease on the stadium as EG stated, not a 50% ownership.

But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.

50 year lease on the land, 50% ownership of the building on said land. Why would the FAI have a mortgage on a lease?

Because they needed one presumably

If you buy an apartment do you get ownership of the land it's built on?

Relevance here?

If the FAI don't own half of LR, nobody owns their apartment. Because it's the exact same construct

The thing that you don't understand is that well you don't understand.

The owner of a third floor apartment owns a third floor apartment. They don't own the ground below it or the 2 apartments in between.

FAI have a medium to long term lease on the Aviva. What they own is a lease. Which is valuable. What they own at the end of the lease is nothing. If the stadium is worth very little at that juncture then that very little belongs to IRFU. If the IRFU and FAI decide to go again they go again. If IRFU are in a position to go it alone then FAI can go somewhere else or seek some sort of rent paying agreement.

Now tell me again the relevance of the apartment?

Sigh. The FAI own half a building. The IRFU own the other half. The IRFU own the land the buildimg is on, so the FAI pay them a nominal ground rent. The expectation is the building has a lifespan of 60 years and then as you say they will make a call to rebuild or go seperate ways. In other words exactly like owning an apartment. There is no lease.

The FAI own 50% of the right to use the Aviva for 60 years.
'on completion of that term (60 years) , the IRFU would assume, or rather re-assume, ownership of the land, or at any point before that if the stadium was deemed unfit for purpose. Even if, and this might cause considerable embarrassment for the FAI in future years, it is decided that the stadium can safely be used for, say, a further 10 years after the 60–year lease has expired, the IRFU will become sole owners and the FAI will revert back to being tenants.'


https://web.archive.org/web/20100918151348/http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/sep/12/numbers-dont-add-up/

[Armagh18]

Euro 2028 now likely to come, so it is Casement or nothing if Norn Iron is to be involved.

is Windsor not big enough?

[sensethetone]

Euro 2028 now likely to come, so it is Casement or nothing if Norn Iron is to be involved.

is Windsor not big enough?

Windsor only holds 18K requirement is 30k.

[Rossfan]

UEFA rules state that the minimum capacity for a stadium is 30,000

Clones current capacity is 29,000 (according to Wikipedia) - surely it wouldn't take that much work to get it over the 30k mark. 

Probably the only question that remains is who are the lucky two teams who get to play savour the Clones atmosphere.

I know that was a tongue in cheek post....
But as soccer followers can't be allowed stand on their own feet at a match Clones would have to put a load of seats in reducing capacity to 15 or 18k perhaps.

[Baile Brigín 2]

UEFA rules state that the minimum capacity for a stadium is 30,000

Clones current capacity is 29,000 (according to Wikipedia) - surely it wouldn't take that much work to get it over the 30k mark. 

Probably the only question that remains is who are the lucky two teams who get to play savour the Clones atmosphere.

I know that was a tongue in cheek post....
But as soccer followers can't be allowed stand on their own feet at a match Clones would have to put a load of seats in reducing capacity to 15 or 18k perhaps.

Does Clones have the hotels, public transport and airports required?

[Average Score]

What would the soccer folk make of some trampy looking thing trying to pin a ribbon on them and looking money.

[Cavan19]

UEFA rules state that the minimum capacity for a stadium is 30,000

Clones current capacity is 29,000 (according to Wikipedia) - surely it wouldn't take that much work to get it over the 30k mark. 

Probably the only question that remains is who are the lucky two teams who get to play savour the Clones atmosphere.

I know that was a tongue in cheek post....
But as soccer followers can't be allowed stand on their own feet at a match Clones would have to put a load of seats in reducing capacity to 15 or 18k perhaps.

Does Clones have the hotels, public transport and airports required?

It has lots of Burger and chip vans.

[Baile Brigín 2]

Indeed [the FAI are] not even providing a stadium...    ....seeing as how the IRFU effectively owns the AVIVA.

Try that again...

When the stadium was rebuilt, along with the government, the FAI and IRFU both put up funding in return for a share of the receipts from their respective events. I can't remember what the split was, but I do know the FAI needed/chose to borrow their share against future ticket sales etc.

Meanwhile, at the end of the 50 year agreement, stadium ownership would revert to the IRFU, which is not so unfair as it might seem, since they own the freehold and 50 years is generally considered to be the working life of a sports stadium, after which it will have to be rebuilt again.

Which was all hunky dory until the crash of 2008/09, premium tickets sales for the FAI slumped and the debts rose.

Then when Delaney was finally ousted and the FAI got a proper look at the accounts, they were revealed to be in deep doo-doo (accountant's term)i, the only way the FAI could avoid bankruptcy was by selling their sole real "asset" i.e. their stake in the AVIVA :
https://www.irishmirror.ie/sport/soccer/soccer-news/fai-chiefs-admit-liquidation-possible-21181196

I'm not sure of the exact details, but I'm fairly sure the IRFU played hard ball by declining to buy out the FAI's stake - they were sitting pretty as it was, still are in fact.

While the government was also reluctant, since they were already putting enough money in just to keep the lights on, they didn't want to have to put up any more public money on behalf of an organisation which still might fail.

That was nearly 2 1/2 years ago and I don't know exactly how the FAI got themselves out of the bind they were in, since it was all kept very hush hush. But a quick google reveals the following - I'm not a Times subscriber, but the headline looks to give a good steer:
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/rugby-hold-aviva-stadium-dublin-spccx0ngh

The split was 50/50, as it remains. They both own the building but the egg chasers own the land. Standard enough The Times article breathlesslytells us what's in the piblic domain.

I thought politicans were pushing for the also broke IRFU to buy the FAI out rather than it be a serious solution.

I don't think it's hush hush. There was a book and tv show. They refinanced the mortgage on LR and were less aggresdive with the repayment schedule.

Unusually for you, mostly correct except the FAI only have a 50 year lease on the stadium as EG stated, not a 50% ownership.

But good to have EG (temporarily) suspend whatever lingers from historic dna embedded unionist privilege and throw his weight behind "Let's get Casement built now"  albeit for IFA self interest.

50 year lease on the land, 50% ownership of the building on said land. Why would the FAI have a mortgage on a lease?

Because they needed one presumably

If you buy an apartment do you get ownership of the land it's built on?

Relevance here?

If the FAI don't own half of LR, nobody owns their apartment. Because it's the exact same construct

The thing that you don't understand is that well you don't understand.

The owner of a third floor apartment owns a third floor apartment. They don't own the ground below it or the 2 apartments in between.

FAI have a medium to long term lease on the Aviva. What they own is a lease. Which is valuable. What they own at the end of the lease is nothing. If the stadium is worth very little at that juncture then that very little belongs to IRFU. If the IRFU and FAI decide to go again they go again. If IRFU are in a position to go it alone then FAI can go somewhere else or seek some sort of rent paying agreement.

Now tell me again the relevance of the apartment?

Sigh. The FAI own half a building. The IRFU own the other half. The IRFU own the land the buildimg is on, so the FAI pay them a nominal ground rent. The expectation is the building has a lifespan of 60 years and then as you say they will make a call to rebuild or go seperate ways. In other words exactly like owning an apartment. There is no lease.

The FAI own 50% of the right to use the Aviva for 60 years.
'on completion of that term (60 years) , the IRFU would assume, or rather re-assume, ownership of the land, or at any point before that if the stadium was deemed unfit for purpose. Even if, and this might cause considerable embarrassment for the FAI in future years, it is decided that the stadium can safely be used for, say, a further 10 years after the 60–year lease has expired, the IRFU will become sole owners and the FAI will revert back to being tenants.'


https://web.archive.org/web/20100918151348/http://www.tribune.ie/article/2010/sep/12/numbers-dont-add-up/

An archived 12 year old article fom a defunct paper. You went deep there to find reference to a lease.

[Evil Genius]

Meanwhile back at the ranch...

https://www.irishnews.com/news/northernirelandnews/2022/04/27/news/planning-procedures-usurped-by-an-agreement-reached-for-the-redevelopment-of-casement-court-hears-2653080/