Ulster Senior Football Club Championship 2009

[Master Yoda]

Bellaghy won it in 2000 as well don't forget Samba.
Who is talking about Derry football being elite?
All I am saying is it is very competitive and I don't think any team no matter how good they are would win 13 titles in a row, like be realistic about the thing in the 13 years that Cross won the Armagh title they are bound to have had bad days but none of the teams that they where playing against where good enough to take advantage of this, to be this suggests the rest of the teams hadn't much quality as when Cross had a off day in one of their many Ulster campaigns they where normally beat.

PS. By the way Samba outside of St Galls & Cargin Antrim football is at a far lower level than Armagh.

Forgot about Bellaghy, thought there was another one.
I was meaning in general, a lot of Derry people constantly go on about how good their championship is. Competitive yes, and probably the most amount of teams who have a genuine chance of winning it. Not the greatest of matches though, and I don't think the quality of teams winning it is as high as, say 10 years ago.I have no doubt Cross had off days, but the likes of Pearse Ogs, Dromintee and and one are 2 others have tested them to the max over the last few years. As I said, to describe the Armagh championship as nothing more than a training session is disrepectful to the likes of these teams.

I never mentioned Antrim football, but I  don't think its fair to say its at a far lower level than Armagh. Depends what you are talking about. Our club champions beat their club champions. Our county team got to an Ulster final and should have beaten the eventual All-Ireland champions, if they'd had a bit more confidence. If you are meaning strength of the Division 1 league, then I'd say we are a bit behind.

I agree with you here, alot off he games in the Derry Championship are awful to watch even between the so called stronger teams, the reason I think Derry teams do well in Ulster is because when they win the Derry Championship they are full of confidence and rightly or wrongly they feel they have won the hardest ( not nessacerly best ) club championship in ulster and they fear no one in the competition.

PS. Was only giving you a dig about Antrim football Samba, I don't really know how strong it is after St Galls & Cargin.

PPS. I didn't say Cross used the Armagh Championship as training , I said they planned their training to peak for the Ulster Club such was their confidence in winning Armagh and I was told that by a cross man but I suppose he could have been telling porkies.

[Master Yoda]

Bellaghy won it in 2000 as well don't forget Samba.
Who is talking about Derry football being elite?
All I am saying is it is very competitive and I don't think any team no matter how good they are would win 13 titles in a row, like be realistic about the thing in the 13 years that Cross won the Armagh title they are bound to have had bad days but none of the teams that they where playing against where good enough to take advantage of this, to be this suggests the rest of the teams hadn't much quality as when Cross had a off day in one of their many Ulster campaigns they where normally beat.

PS. By the way Samba outside of St Galls & Cargin Antrim football is at a far lower level than Armagh.

This would be fair to say if you were talking purely in terms of footballing ability, but I don't think many outside Armagh realise the psychological stranglehold Cross had on everyone. Of course they had off days when they should've been beaten, but other clubs shat themselves on one or two occasions and threw away the chance to topple them. Clubs outside the county didn't quite have the same mental block. Ogs win this year was massive, the fear factor is severely diminished.

Nail on head.........and just because a championship is competitive doesn't mean it's good, Derry people would sicken your hole about their club football. I also reckon the standard is dropping in Derry with an exceptional Ballinderry team appearing to be past their peak, Bellaghy and Lavey going through a dip, a Derry man said to me recently that it was a worrying sign when Loup won the title. 

Must be more worrying for him that they are in the Ulster final then.

[SambaSaffron]

Bellaghy won it in 2000 as well don't forget Samba.
Who is talking about Derry football being elite?
All I am saying is it is very competitive and I don't think any team no matter how good they are would win 13 titles in a row, like be realistic about the thing in the 13 years that Cross won the Armagh title they are bound to have had bad days but none of the teams that they where playing against where good enough to take advantage of this, to be this suggests the rest of the teams hadn't much quality as when Cross had a off day in one of their many Ulster campaigns they where normally beat.

PS. By the way Samba outside of St Galls & Cargin Antrim football is at a far lower level than Armagh.

Forgot about Bellaghy, thought there was another one.
I was meaning in general, a lot of Derry people constantly go on about how good their championship is. Competitive yes, and probably the most amount of teams who have a genuine chance of winning it. Not the greatest of matches though, and I don't think the quality of teams winning it is as high as, say 10 years ago.I have no doubt Cross had off days, but the likes of Pearse Ogs, Dromintee and and one are 2 others have tested them to the max over the last few years. As I said, to describe the Armagh championship as nothing more than a training session is disrepectful to the likes of these teams.

I never mentioned Antrim football, but I  don't think its fair to say its at a far lower level than Armagh. Depends what you are talking about. Our club champions beat their club champions. Our county team got to an Ulster final and should have beaten the eventual All-Ireland champions, if they'd had a bit more confidence. If you are meaning strength of the Division 1 league, then I'd say we are a bit behind.

I agree with you here, alot off he games in the Derry Championship are awful to watch even between the so called stronger teams, the reason I think Derry teams do well in Ulster is because when they win the Derry Championship they are full of confidence and rightly or wrongly they feel they have won the hardest ( not nessacerly best ) club championship in ulster and they fear no one in the competition.

PS. Was only giving you a dig about Antrim football Samba, I don't really know how strong it is after St Galls & Cargin.

PPS. I didn't say Cross used the Armagh Championship as training , I said they planned their training to peak for the Ulster Club such was their confidence in winning Armagh and I was told that by a cross man but I suppose he could have been telling porkies.

Fair point about the confidence matter. With all due respect, I think thats one of the main reasons Loup have got to the final, they have got on a bit of a roll and its carried them. Fair play to them.
Na you'd be right about Antrim, after those 2 teams there isn't a whole lot more. Perhaps in the next few years a new force will come through. Creggan fancy themselves and are going very wel at underage level. Not great at senior currently though.
Ah right. Again, probably fairly accurate.

[winsamsoon]

 I will pose this question then lads. Take the top 6  teams from Armagh Derry and Tyrone and put them into a league format with two in each league. Who would come out on top. The quality of Derry and Tyrone championships are undoubtedly of a highier standard than that in Armagh imo. With the exception of Cross and now the Og's (current champs) the other four teams would struggle to compete with Ballinderry, Bellagahy, Errigal, carrickmore, Ardboe,  Dromore to name a few. These teams would have all have the potential to beat cross and certainly the og's who in my eyes are still second best in Armagh despite winning this years championship. Everyone hear is condeming the Derry championship saying because it is competitive then this doesn't neccessarily make it good. Then what does constitute a good championship??? If teams like Ballinderry and Bellaghy are not nailed on favs to win championships every year then the club championship has to be of decent standard.

Afs you are 100% when you talk about the mental issue within Armagh with respect to Cross, but yoda's point about teams not being good enough to take them on bad days is equally valid. There is no way the Cross would have won 13 championships in a row in Tyrone or Derry, i would even extend this to Monaghan as the monaghan champions always gave cross a decent game in Ulster. Acknowledging this is the case isn't taking away from Cross as they are a class act and it isn't being disrespectful to other clubs in armagh is is an observation that is based on many games over 13 years and one which i would agree with.

[thewanderer]

of course cross would have won almost all the derry titles in the past 13 years, as the rest of the derry teams would have been too busy fallin out with each other, thats why they cant put it together at county level too much baggage brought forward from club hates. LAVEY now there a mad bunch we haven't seen for some time as the man says u would have to back on Tuesday to get ur clothes from after the sunday match nutttts. Master Yoda u must be one of them have to agree that the tyrone and derry leagues and cship are more competitive than armagh u only had cross with pearse ogs and dromintee the only clubs regularily gettin any way close to them.

[thewanderer]

Win typical clans sour grapes how can u say that the ogs are second in armagh when they won the championship fair and square and competed with cross on all occassions this year. Even the cross boys acknowledged that the ogs are the best team this year. Also would have to agree that the other counties tyrone and derry are competively stronger. When will the clans be able to climb into the top tier in armagh to help improve the standard?? I think Dromintee will compete next year with ogs and cross.

[SambaSaffron]

I will pose this question then lads. Take the top 6  teams from Armagh Derry and Tyrone and put them into a league format with two in each league. Who would come out on top. The quality of Derry and Tyrone championships are undoubtedly of a highier standard than that in Armagh imo. With the exception of Cross and now the Og's (current champs) the other four teams would struggle to compete with Ballinderry, Bellagahy, Errigal, carrickmore, Ardboe,  Dromore to name a few. These teams would have all have the potential to beat cross and certainly the og's who in my eyes are still second best in Armagh despite winning this years championship. Everyone hear is condeming the Derry championship saying because it is competitive then this doesn't neccessarily make it good. Then what does constitute a good championship??? If teams like Ballinderry and Bellaghy are not nailed on favs to win championships every year then the club championship has to be of decent standard.

Afs you are 100% when you talk about the mental issue within Armagh with respect to Cross, but yoda's point about teams not being good enough to take them on bad days is equally valid. There is no way the Cross would have won 13 championships in a row in Tyrone or Derry, i would even extend this to Monaghan as the monaghan champions always gave cross a decent game in Ulster. Acknowledging this is the case isn't taking away from Cross as they are a class act and it isn't being disrespectful to other clubs in armagh is is an observation that is based on many games over 13 years and one which i would agree with.

As I said, Derry does have the strongest "strength in depth" as it were as regards club teams, and the most capable of winning it. But I do feel the standard has gone back in the last couple of years. As for Tyrone, again a competitive championship. However, there lack of success at Ulster level counts against them. It just depends what is meant by what is the "best championship."

[AFS]

I will pose this question then lads. Take the top 6  teams from Armagh Derry and Tyrone and put them into a league format with two in each league. Who would come out on top. The quality of Derry and Tyrone championships are undoubtedly of a highier standard than that in Armagh imo. With the exception of Cross and now the Og's (current champs) the other four teams would struggle to compete with Ballinderry, Bellagahy, Errigal, carrickmore, Ardboe,  Dromore to name a few. These teams would have all have the potential to beat cross and certainly the og's who in my eyes are still second best in Armagh despite winning this years championship. Everyone hear is condeming the Derry championship saying because it is competitive then this doesn't neccessarily make it good. Then what does constitute a good championship??? If teams like Ballinderry and Bellaghy are not nailed on favs to win championships every year then the club championship has to be of decent standard.

Afs you are 100% when you talk about the mental issue within Armagh with respect to Cross, but yoda's point about teams not being good enough to take them on bad days is equally valid. There is no way the Cross would have won 13 championships in a row in Tyrone or Derry, i would even extend this to Monaghan as the monaghan champions always gave cross a decent game in Ulster. Acknowledging this is the case isn't taking away from Cross as they are a class act and it isn't being disrespectful to other clubs in armagh is is an observation that is based on many games over 13 years and one which i would agree with.

Think you might be overstating the quality of some of Tyrone's top teams. No doubt their championship has great strenght in depth, maybe even greater than Derry, but the record of Tyrone clubs in Ulster suggests that their top teams are not much of an improvement on many other counties.

[fitzroyalty]

Win typical clans sour grapes how can u say that the ogs are second in armagh when they won the championship fair and square and competed with cross on all occassions this year. Even the cross boys acknowledged that the ogs are the best team this year. Also would have to agree that the other counties tyrone and derry are competively stronger. When will the clans be able to climb into the top tier in armagh to help improve the standard?? I think Dromintee will compete next year with ogs and cross.

How is he being sour he he just gave his opinion. Most people would agree that Cross are still the best team, Ogs ran them close twice in the league and most importantly beat them in the sfc final (which might i add is probably the best thing to ever happen to club football in a long while).   agree with you that dromintee will get their fingers out and challenge. as for your question regarding clans, still a team in transition, still off the pace but the signs are good.

[Estimator]

Year       Winner County                            Opponent County
2008      Crossmaglen Rangers 0-12 Armagh  Ballinderry 1-04 Derry
2007      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh         St Gall's Antrim
2006      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh        Ballinderry Derry
2005      St Galls Antrim                             Bellaghy Derry
2004      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh         Mayobridge Down
2003      An Lúb Derry                                St Galls Antrim
2002      Errigal Ciarán Tyrone                     Enniskillen Gaels Fermanagh
2001      Ballinderry Derry                            Mayobridge Down
2000      Bellaghy Derry                              Errigal Ciarán Tyrone
1999      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh        Enniskillen Gaels Fermanagh
1998      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh        Bellaghy Derry
1997      Dungiven Derry                            Errigal Ciarán Tyrone
1996      Crossmaglen Rangers* Armagh      Bellaghy Derry
1995      Mullabawn Armagh                      Bailieboro Cavan
1994      Bellaghy Derry                            Clontibret O'NeillsMonaghan
1993      Errigal Ciarán Tyrone                    Downpatrick Down
1992      Lavey* Derry                              Burren Down
1991      Castleblayney Faughs Monaghan    Killybegs Donegal
1990      Lavey Derry                                Kingscourt Cavan

In the past 20 years Derry have had a team in all but 7 of the finals, thats why Derry people reckon that we have a very competitive club championship here.

In the last 20yrs:
Derry 5 different clubs
Down 3 different clubs
Cavan, Monaghan, Armagh 2 different clubs
Tyrone, Antrim, Fermanagh, Donegal 1 club

[mackers]

Year       Winner County                            Opponent County
2008      Crossmaglen Rangers 0-12 Armagh  Ballinderry 1-04 Derry
2007      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh         St Gall's Antrim
2006      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh        Ballinderry Derry
2005      St Galls Antrim                             Bellaghy Derry
2004      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh         Mayobridge Down
2003      An Lúb Derry                                St Galls Antrim
2002      Errigal Ciarán Tyrone                     Enniskillen Gaels Fermanagh
2001      Ballinderry Derry                            Mayobridge Down
2000      Bellaghy Derry                              Errigal Ciarán Tyrone
1999      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh        Enniskillen Gaels Fermanagh
1998      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh        Bellaghy Derry
1997      Dungiven Derry                            Errigal Ciarán Tyrone
1996      Crossmaglen Rangers* Armagh      Bellaghy Derry
1995      Mullabawn Armagh                      Bailieboro Cavan
1994      Bellaghy Derry                            Clontibret O'NeillsMonaghan
1993      Errigal Ciarán Tyrone                    Downpatrick Down
1992      Lavey* Derry                              Burren Down
1991      Castleblayney Faughs Monaghan    Killybegs Donegal
1990      Lavey Derry                                Kingscourt Cavan

In the past 20 years Derry have had a team in all but 7 of the finals, thats why Derry people reckon that we have a very competitive club championship here.

In the last 20yrs:
Derry 5 different clubs
Down 3 different clubs
Cavan, Monaghan, Armagh 2 different clubs
Tyrone, Antrim, Fermanagh, Donegal 1 club

Like most statistics Estimator, they are skewed, in this instance with Cross's dominance in Armagh, you could say that proves your point, but I honestly feel that Dromintee at their height would've competed very strongly in Ulster if they had got over Cross in Armagh (see AFS's point about pyschological barriers with Cross) and the Ogs are capable of competing with Ulster's best at the minute (could well give St Gall's their best match in Ulster this year).
Yes, Derry club football is strong but not as strong as Derry people think it is, their champions had just as many problems with Cross as the forementioned clubs in Armagh had through the last decade with only Bellaghy beating them through that time.

[Rawhide]

oooppps somebody comes on to argue a point and gets it wrong. Loup also beat Cross in 2003.

[Master Yoda]

Year       Winner County                            Opponent County
2008      Crossmaglen Rangers 0-12 Armagh  Ballinderry 1-04 Derry
2007      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh         St Gall's Antrim
2006      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh        Ballinderry Derry
2005      St Galls Antrim                             Bellaghy Derry
2004      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh         Mayobridge Down
2003      An Lúb Derry                                St Galls Antrim
2002      Errigal Ciarán Tyrone                     Enniskillen Gaels Fermanagh
2001      Ballinderry Derry                            Mayobridge Down
2000      Bellaghy Derry                              Errigal Ciarán Tyrone
1999      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh        Enniskillen Gaels Fermanagh
1998      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh        Bellaghy Derry
1997      Dungiven Derry                            Errigal Ciarán Tyrone
1996      Crossmaglen Rangers* Armagh      Bellaghy Derry
1995      Mullabawn Armagh                      Bailieboro Cavan
1994      Bellaghy Derry                            Clontibret O'NeillsMonaghan
1993      Errigal Ciarán Tyrone                    Downpatrick Down
1992      Lavey* Derry                              Burren Down
1991      Castleblayney Faughs Monaghan    Killybegs Donegal
1990      Lavey Derry                                Kingscourt Cavan

In the past 20 years Derry have had a team in all but 7 of the finals, thats why Derry people reckon that we have a very competitive club championship here.

In the last 20yrs:
Derry 5 different clubs
Down 3 different clubs
Cavan, Monaghan, Armagh 2 different clubs
Tyrone, Antrim, Fermanagh, Donegal 1 club

Like most statistics Estimator, they are skewed, in this instance with Cross's dominance in Armagh, you could say that proves your point, but I honestly feel that Dromintee at their height would've competed very strongly in Ulster if they had got over Cross in Armagh (see AFS's point about pyschological barriers with Cross) and the Ogs are capable of competing with Ulster's best at the minute (could well give St Gall's their best match in Ulster this year).
Yes, Derry club football is strong but not as strong as Derry people think it is, their champions had just as many problems with Cross as the forementioned clubs in Armagh had through the last decade with only Bellaghy beating them through that time.

Did Cavan Gaels not take St Galls to extra time in the preliminary round?

[winsamsoon]

Win typical clans sour grapes how can u say that the ogs are second in armagh when they won the championship fair and square and competed with cross on all occassions this year. Even the cross boys acknowledged that the ogs are the best team this year. Also would have to agree that the other counties tyrone and derry are competively stronger. When will the clans be able to climb into the top tier in armagh to help improve the standard?? I think Dromintee will compete next year with ogs and cross.

Once again we see a poster that when the facts are stacked against their argument they go down the line of trying to turn it into a club versus club rivalry. This mentality really pushes my buttons. IMO the Cross are still a better team than the ogs even though the og's are deservedly Armagh champions this year. I can say this because it is a well known fact that sometimes the best team is beaten on the day for a variety of different reasons ( This is nothing to do with Clan Na Gael or sour grapes as i was glad to see the og's win for the greater good of Armagh football) how you came to that conclusion i don't know. If the og' were to meet the Cross in the first round next year i would fancy the cross again not because i am from the clans, nor is it sour grapes but it is because i think Cross are a better side. It happens regularly in all sports were an underdog will snatch a late winner . Even though the team they are playing is a better team they have still been beaten. I think were you are picking me up wrong is that you think because i am from another Armagh club you feel i don't think the og's deserved to win the county championship. The O'g's thoroughly deserved the championship win. Maybe this is why you feel the need to bring my club into a debate which has simply nothing to do with them.

[winsamsoon]

Year       Winner County                            Opponent County
2008      Crossmaglen Rangers 0-12 Armagh  Ballinderry 1-04 Derry
2007      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh         St Gall's Antrim
2006      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh        Ballinderry Derry
2005      St Galls Antrim                             Bellaghy Derry
2004      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh         Mayobridge Down
2003      An Lúb Derry                                St Galls Antrim
2002      Errigal Ciarán Tyrone                     Enniskillen Gaels Fermanagh
2001      Ballinderry Derry                            Mayobridge Down
2000      Bellaghy Derry                              Errigal Ciarán Tyrone
1999      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh        Enniskillen Gaels Fermanagh
1998      Crossmaglen Rangers Armagh        Bellaghy Derry
1997      Dungiven Derry                            Errigal Ciarán Tyrone
1996      Crossmaglen Rangers* Armagh      Bellaghy Derry
1995      Mullabawn Armagh                      Bailieboro Cavan
1994      Bellaghy Derry                            Clontibret O'NeillsMonaghan
1993      Errigal Ciarán Tyrone                    Downpatrick Down
1992      Lavey* Derry                              Burren Down
1991      Castleblayney Faughs Monaghan    Killybegs Donegal
1990      Lavey Derry                                Kingscourt Cavan

In the past 20 years Derry have had a team in all but 7 of the finals, thats why Derry people reckon that we have a very competitive club championship here.

In the last 20yrs:
Derry 5 different clubs
Down 3 different clubs
Cavan, Monaghan, Armagh 2 different clubs
Tyrone, Antrim, Fermanagh, Donegal 1 club

Like most statistics Estimator, they are skewed, in this instance with Cross's dominance in Armagh, you could say that proves your point, but I honestly feel that Dromintee at their height would've competed very strongly in Ulster if they had got over Cross in Armagh (see AFS's point about pyschological barriers with Cross) and the Ogs are capable of competing with Ulster's best at the minute (could well give St Gall's their best match in Ulster this year).
Yes, Derry club football is strong but not as strong as Derry people think it is, their champions had just as many problems with Cross as the forementioned clubs in Armagh had through the last decade with only Bellaghy beating them through that time.

Did Cavan Gaels not take St Galls to extra time in the preliminary round?

Correct so to date this has been their hardest game on paper anyway