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Messages - Flanker

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1
Antrim / Re: Antrim Football Thread
« on: July 27, 2022, 10:28:40 AM »
concerning that it is so easily done.   we always hear from the clubs about the issues with fixtures but seemingly it suits some to do as they please.

Would starting on - 6 points in the following years league be enough of a deterrent. Would put most teams bar the top handful in a tricky enough spot.
Reserve leagues will always be difficult to manage though

2
Antrim / Re: Antrim Football Thread
« on: June 10, 2022, 11:30:51 AM »
So the problem I see within all those hugely well equipped posters on this board in tactical awareness combined with a huge wealth of coaching experience can look within their own club and excuse the lack of silverware within.
And indeed, in most cases no glimpse of such on the horizon.

Jesus does indeed weep....
CB if you measure everything in silverware then the vast majority of teams will be failures most of the time.

As a county we are unlikely to see silverware anytime soon.

Nobody said we had a thriving club scene

It doesn't mean we shouldn't have an expectation of maximising the potential of what we have.

You watch and report on plenty of games. You will see setups that are maximising potential and plenty that aren't.

I'm sure you can see the difference.

There was a clear coaching deficit in the setup which highlights the importance of the full management team.

It is over now but it may draw attention to the importance of the backroom teams and supporting cast in future management teams as well

Time to move on


3
Antrim / Re: Antrim Football Thread
« on: June 09, 2022, 10:37:12 PM »
The Management had virtually everyone of the top 40 odd players in Antrim available to them. There was virtually no one who made themselves unavailable from the outset. Some weren't selected, some after year 1 retired, some didn't make themselves available, some were dropped & some dropped out throughout the year. Part of management is to mould what you have into a cohesive unit greater than the sum of the parts. Get buy into your philosophy and systems of play. Improve and develop players. Out of the 40 odd we ended up with around 20 plus 5 or 6 under 20's for the final game.

How did we end up with around 20 out of the 40/45 that were originally available or drafted in @ the start of year 2.
Can anyone name 3 or 4 players who you would say developed a reasonable amount over the 2 years?
Can anyone identify an area of our play that showed marked improvement?
From what I could see we had most of our better players available at the begining (not always the case for Antrim managers) got fitter and beat the teams around us and a few above. There isn't a huge difference between the top half of division 4 and the bottom half of Div 3. We played most of the weaker Div 3 teams at the start of the league and picked up points. When we hit the slightly stronger teams it really exposed our setup. We basically didn't have one and didn't know how to deal with teams who were well setup.
Credit for getting out of Div 4 and staying in Div 3. However there was no sign of the building blocks and basics being put in place to move on.
At the end we ended up with half a squad who looked like they were rounded up on the morning of the game

4
Antrim / Re: Antrim Football Thread
« on: May 30, 2022, 05:04:32 PM »
3 years ago we played Derry in a Div 4 league game in Corrigan, where aided by a dubious call by the ref (we should have had a penalty when he gave a 14 yard free for a technical foul by keeper), Derry won by a point. We know what has happened since then.

So what's the difference? Don't think Derry have introduced a big number of new players, in fact RG has stated that the fewer personnel changes the better. They did get Conor Glass back and he has made a difference. Is it primarily the manager (management team), attitude, training methods, commitment? Like, they have gone from Div 4 to Ulster champions. In same period our progress has been limited and in championship terms, non existent.

Very frustrating. I was glad for them yesterday but still, very frustrating.

In the main a combination of 2 things

Derry had been addressing their underage pipeline which consistently produced very competitive squads for a few years prior to this and since
Ulster (Minors), Ulster U20's, 3/4 Macrory Cups, All Ireland Minor, Ulster minor club, probably lots more & there or thereabouts in lots of others as well.

In that time We have.............

Both teams changed there management/coaching setup

One got a modern day tactically aware setup maximising what they have into a cohesive force much stronger than the sum of the parts

We got a setup that in the end looked like a gather up

Derry get 2 out of 2 Result 2022 Ulster Senior Title

We get 0 out of 2 Result Knocked out by mid table Div 4 team


Challenge is to get both parts right and bring it together





5
Antrim / Re: Antrim Football Thread
« on: May 30, 2022, 03:48:17 PM »

6
Antrim / Re: Antrim Football Thread
« on: April 26, 2022, 05:50:40 PM »
Seems a few within are bitterly disappointed on Saturday shit show.
But look inside and consider why we have reason to have been positive..

Have we a thriving club scene....NO
We're there individuals who did not agree to join the panel..Yes
Can we name any I individual who would have made a difference.....No

My old friend Oliver Kelly RIP told me once "lose the fundamental, lose the argument".

If I have answered the above correctly we do not have the right to expect championship success....

CB after 2 years should the expectation not be higher than a sh*r show (your words)
Management & coaching a team is about the collective, getting greater than the sum of the parts. Yes individuals within that certainly help. Maximise what you have, improve what you have. That was serious negative territory

If that level of organisation, team structure and shambles was served up to the green army come first round knockout stage of the championship how would it be received and what would the outcome be

It would get the same outcome in any half decent club irrespective of whether they were championship contenders or not. The expectation would be they would at least bring a reasonable level of performance whatever their ability and limitations. That's all anyone can ask for

7
Antrim / Re: Antrim Football Thread
« on: April 26, 2022, 03:16:16 PM »
My God. I despair
NSS outside of RC I don't think anyone would have been backing an Antim win.

Expectation would have been good performance, Management getting a tune out of the team and fall a bit short.

Cavan a decent side 2 out of the last 3 Ulster finals winning 1.

The disappointment for most was not the defeat but the absence of just about anything.

Can you give 2-3 positive aspects of the performance where you could say there has been a Good bit of work put into that, there is something to build on etc

Not an individual piece of skill, A Ryan Murray play, A Paddy McAleer catch, The Goalkeeper etc

Something with the Management or coaching teams fingerprints on it where you could say that's working well or thats shaping up well.

Most people are struggling to see any of the very basics you would expect. Yes we are a work in progress but at this point you would expect to see the shoots of the management teams stamp/philosophy on the team.

Appreciate that the guys have with the players put in a lot of time & effort but surely that is all the more reason to have some expectations.

Look forward to your positives....At this point even 1 would do


8
Antrim / Re: Antrim Football Thread
« on: April 26, 2022, 12:57:42 PM »
Managers are mixing it up more nowadays. First it was all out attack, then all defensive...good managers are finding the balance between the two.

On every team I would have at least two defenders who are earmarked  to go toe to toe with a designated dangerman, and always have at least three all moving forwards who can provide quality long ball options.

You rarely see the three four five phase run anymore. All you see now is one or two straight line runs and give up if ball dosent come in. Not nearly enough.

Relying on one forward (Odhran) was never ever going to work. I'd have played Conor Murray on top of the keeper (as Cavan did with Paddy Clarke, starting runs from there) with Ryan playing off the brother, coming in from the right on his good foot. Surely these are the most basic things we are talking about.

Around the middle third we need 8 or 9 absolute workhorses, ability to do the required km, and fit to play the running game that suits us. Unfortunately we had two or three in this category who looked very uncomfortable in providing this function. Conor Stewarts first meaningful match all season, come on, that's just downright wrong.

With tweaking and some common sense management and players could regroup and have a lash, but if it hasn't been done to date, I fear it's not going to happen. If you can't see it in the first place how can you be expected to fix it.

Who could have matched and better their no.11? Christ I wouldn't have liked to have my picture taken beside him never mind marking him!! He showed for every ball and collected most of them. The ball also stuck when it went in, very rarely did they fumble or make those minor mistakes. direct running too.

The level was way above what we have encountered in the league. The physical side of things needs improving, hopefully its heads down over the winter and build on the strength and conditioning they have started. To be honest I wouldn't put much effort into this new competition
At this level and given he has been one of their talismen for 10-12 years now most setups would adapt their defensive structure to limit his influence and that of other key forwards. That is assuming you have a defensive structure. Its about numbers in the right areas, discipline, Trust, contesting and swarming when the opportunity arises, not contesting the uncontestable..........How you setup, communicate and what your triggers are come down to the strategy of the coaching setup assuming they have a stategy. Thank God he can't kick with his right foot

9
Antrim / Re: Antrim Football Thread
« on: April 25, 2022, 02:24:59 PM »
Jeez, I am at a loss to understand why we need the services of outside management.

Lotta experts within.....

"Experienced advisor or a proven coach being added to the setup"

No mention of outside manager.

Acknowledged progress in some areas

Not an Expert but Allowed to have an opinion

Feel free to answer any of the questions posed, contest any of the points

I have no axe to grind with anyone

Look forward to the answers & points contested in a constructive manner






10
Antrim / Re: Antrim Football Thread
« on: April 25, 2022, 12:58:24 PM »
Some hysterical nonsense posted on here as past few days.  Reality bites and some have got carried away after a good start to the league campaign.    Management and players both can look at themselves to see what went wrong but the conclusion will be that we were beaten by a better and physically superior team operating at a higher level than us.   We have no superstars to bring into the fold so we have what we have and need to work with them.  Decision making and execution of basic skills is still lacking and one wonders how long it takes (or even how possible it is) to coach this out of senior intercounty players who continue to operate like this.  As i said we have no one else other than what we have.

Personal thoughts on management were the initial game strategy didn't work, or it took too long to work out Cavan's game plan.    But we worked our way back into it. Whatever the half time team talk was it did not work and the 2nd half changes disrupted whatever rhythm the players had played themselves into.   On the players front, they showed heart to get back into the game but the utter capitulation following the red card was hugely worrying. Nothing management could do about that.  Believe there were 4 points in it at the time of the red card.  The excuse for failure was handed to the players then and there and they readily took it.  Perhaps it is the wake up call both management and players need but they will all be hurting today. 

Progress has been made, no doubt about that both in terms of physicality and playing nous but we have still years to go and Antrim supporters still continue to want the quick fix option.   The greater question is can this team develop and learn together, or will this collection of players simply never get there regardless of management?

It feels like the fallout from the Louth match has soured the milk with many and the disappointment of failure to get promoted to Div 2 has culminated to this point.   Whether McGinley wants or gets another term is up for debate. Again saturday was a reality check, but can we learn collectively and go again?

Spike some reasonable thoughts. I would have serious doubts though about how the team can develop and learn from the current setup without the introduction of an experienced advisor or a proven coach being added to the setup.

Teams are a reflection of management where you try to maximise the output from the resources you have.  Now the expectation of most reasonable people was that it was a 60/40 or thereabouts game in Cavan's favour. Most were expecting a strong performance with a well organised setup where we would give it a good go.
 
What were the tactics in the first half
Concede the kick out with wind advantage (puzzling) .. What was suppose to happen next... Congest the middle third and stem the running game... drop the sweepers in and stop the kick pass into the ff line.... or was it something more sophisticated.
It looked like total confusion with no one knowing what there role was... Marking, sweeping, pressing.... They ran through us... found forwards in half an acre of space... managed to have their own sweeper(s) ... didn't need the keeper to provide support for the running game

Having had 2 years, numerous sessions, played @ least 10 games this year to have a setup like that. No visible defensive setup, no structure, no leadership, no communication, running straight through us, kicking straight through us, Cavan forward receiving ball in @ least 1/2 an acre of space.

This is not a fitness issue, this was from the first minute. Never mind S&C, skills, technical abilty etc This is simply having a disciplined setup, structure and communication which wasn't there. If the opposition can work through it, wear you down, unlock it well and good but at least lay down the challenge. At least make the opponent have to work.

On the offensive side a few Hail Marys into 1v2, 2v3 situations.

We did get a 5-10 minute spell where we looked to throw of the shackles and started to engage and compete.

My thoughts are that while some aspects have improved that was a muddled mess and coaching car crash.

While it may have been a 4 point game before the red card it felt like, looked like and was a 13 point hammering.

Cavan are a decent team, arguably a top 10-12ish team, We are probably about 20ish so I appreciate there is a gap.






11
Antrim / Re: Antrim Football Thread
« on: April 23, 2022, 10:06:25 PM »
Don't wish to be a smart ass but does anyone have any idea what we were trying to do in the first 20/25 minutes.
I get they decided to concede the kick out with wind advantage (puzzling) .. but what was suppose to happen next... Congest the middle third and stem the running game... drop the sweepers in and stop the kick pass into the ff line.... or was it something more sophisticated.
It looked like total confusion with no one knowing what there role was... Marking, sweeping, pressing.... They ran through us... found forwards in half an acre of space... managed to have their own sweeper(s) ... didn't need the keeper to provide support for the running game
Whatever about getting beaten the setup was shambolic at best. At least last year against Armagh although well beaten you could see a little bit of shape in what they were doing. A 13 point hammering

12
Antrim / Re: Antrim Football Thread
« on: April 14, 2022, 05:51:24 PM »
Absolute nonsense about youngsters looking to next level and what standard they are at.
My young fella hasn't a clue about what standard the age group above him are playing at, he just wants to be like the bigger boys and play it.

Takes a few years to find your feet Barnish. But it looks like you're there for the duration. Another club making decent strides.

Oh i know, you pick and choose your matches at this stage to do enough to stay up and build from there.

I just think the Creggan game will be interesting from a intensity level, i don't think we will be within 10 scores of them at the end but it'll be good craic if both sets of players are up for the battle!

Would you not be concerned about the building blocks to build from. Juvenile teams in Div 3.

Not a great base to be working from.

With the numbers catchment area and facilities does that not need fixed

TNN have regrouped as past 10 years and halted the territorial inroads made by one of their rivals into the town.   If youth numbers and facilities are anything to go by then TNN are on the right track.

Agree was just surprised with the upturn to see u17 & u15 down in Div 3.Harder to get the next batch to push on to the next level from there.

RC not what I meant

Harder to get the next 6 - 8 players of sufficient quality to push the Senior team to the next level when you are competing at Div 3 underage with the next 2 age groups coming through. Having your underage teams competitive at as High a level as possible.

13
Antrim / Re: Antrim Football Thread
« on: April 14, 2022, 05:22:08 PM »
Takes a few years to find your feet Barnish. But it looks like you're there for the duration. Another club making decent strides.

Oh i know, you pick and choose your matches at this stage to do enough to stay up and build from there.

I just think the Creggan game will be interesting from a intensity level, i don't think we will be within 10 scores of them at the end but it'll be good craic if both sets of players are up for the battle!

Would you not be concerned about the building blocks to build from. Juvenile teams in Div 3.

Not a great base to be working from.

With the numbers catchment area and facilities does that not need fixed

TNN have regrouped as past 10 years and halted the territorial inroads made by one of their rivals into the town.   If youth numbers and facilities are anything to go by then TNN are on the right track.

Agree was just surprised with the upturn to see u17 & u15 down in Div 3.Harder to get the next batch to push on to the next level from there.

14
Antrim / Re: Antrim Football Thread
« on: April 14, 2022, 04:52:04 PM »
Takes a few years to find your feet Barnish. But it looks like you're there for the duration. Another club making decent strides.

Oh i know, you pick and choose your matches at this stage to do enough to stay up and build from there.

I just think the Creggan game will be interesting from a intensity level, i don't think we will be within 10 scores of them at the end but it'll be good craic if both sets of players are up for the battle!

Would you not be concerned about the building blocks to build from. Juvenile teams in Div 3.

Not a great base to be working from.

With the numbers catchment area and facilities does that not need fixed

You can have juvenile teams in whatever division but if you can have three moving on to a senior div 1 team every other year and allow them to develop you’ll do ok.

Everything is possible but if you want to compete in Div1 and progress 2 consecutive age groups in Div 3 covering roughly 4 school year groups will be challenging. You might get away with it if it is just a blip but you would want to get up the levels.

15
Antrim / Re: Antrim Football Thread
« on: April 14, 2022, 04:20:08 PM »
Takes a few years to find your feet Barnish. But it looks like you're there for the duration. Another club making decent strides.

Oh i know, you pick and choose your matches at this stage to do enough to stay up and build from there.

I just think the Creggan game will be interesting from a intensity level, i don't think we will be within 10 scores of them at the end but it'll be good craic if both sets of players are up for the battle!

Would you not be concerned about the building blocks to build from. Juvenile teams in Div 3.

Not a great base to be working from.

With the numbers catchment area and facilities does that not need fixed

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