Gaelic Football - Rules & Regulations discussion/clarification

[Rossfan]

Between the media and the GAAboard naysayers .......

[John Martin]

I've a fairly trivial question for the refs and anyone else who might know.

A few times during the Down - Meath match at the weekend a ball hit the stop nets and came back onto the pitch. The keeper grabbed a different ball to set up quickly for his kickout. The ref didn't allow the keeper to hit a kickout until the 2nd ball was removed, which the keeper then had to do because umpires don't seem to be allowed to do this anymore.

If I was the goalkeeper, and looking to waste time, could I just leave the 2nd ball there and wait for someone else to remove it?

[Milltown Row2]

I've a fairly trivial question for the refs and anyone else who might know.

A few times during the Down - Meath match at the weekend a ball hit the stop nets and came back onto the pitch. The keeper grabbed a different ball to set up quickly for his kickout. The ref didn't allow the keeper to hit a kickout until the 2nd ball was removed, which the keeper then had to do because umpires don't seem to be allowed to do this anymore.

If I was the goalkeeper, and looking to waste time, could I just leave the 2nd ball there and wait for someone else to remove it?

You could, its not down to the umpires to collect the balls, ever, different at the club games when its the members doing it. The ref now has the opportunity to cross his hands above his head and stop the clock if someone is taking the piss.. Ive seen club games where someone on the sideline was throwing a ball on to do exactly that

[befair]

Yes, a few years ago, in the Down championship final, there was an epidemic of balls being chucked onto the field in injury time. Happened for a few years in succession.....

[gortnaleck]

I only get to watch the games on TV but I still don't find them very exciting to watch.I like the kick out,the solo and go,and the no talking back to the referee.Handpassing has taken over and the only kick passing is if there's no one within 10 yards of the person the ball is being passed to.Some nice 2 pointers being kicked and it seems like a team always has a chance to come back.I think it will get a lot more boring when the stakes get higher and the coaches figure things out.It also seems to be the case that no one wants to criticize the enhancements either.What do you people think that are actually at the games

[EoinW]

How long will the GAA stick with this idea of artificially creating more scoring with 2 point shots?  Clearly they have not thought this rule out long term because they aren't going to like what they see once managers figure out the strategy for it.

Being North American, the moment I heard about the 2 pointer I immediately thought about the NCAA introducing the 3 point shot to basketball.  It took a decade for coaches to eventually adapt, so I don't blame GAA managers for not having figured it out yet.  However after ten years all coaches had set their offence around the 3 point shot.  Consequently all defence strategy was planned around stopping the 3 pointer.  Thus basketball, which had great strategic diversity, succumbed to Group Think and every team has been playing the exact same game for a quarter century.

What's going to happen regarding the 2 pointer in Gaelic football?  Eventually every team will run their offence to set up the 2 point shot.  You're going to see less goals because goal chances are very low percentage and only net one extra point.  Load your lineup with 5 long kickers and bombs away!  Every team will end up playing the same strategy and same defence against that strategy(if you can defence it when the goalkeeper provides an odd man advantage).

But it will get worse.  Case in point Dublin v Kerry(in the wind!).  Dublin won that game because they held the ball 3 minutes at a time, whereas Kerry ran its regular offence.  Going against a wind which does not allow you to kick 2 pointers(but allows your opposition easy 2 point shots) time is more valuable than points.  Teams need to simply bring up their goalkeeper for an extra player then hold the ball.  There's nothing in the rules against them holding it 35 minutes.  Is there?

About this assumption that it's now harder to protect a lead.  When your opposition has the potential of scoring 2 pointers every possession, the smart play is to get the ball over centre, bring up your keeper then run the clock down.  Ultimately you are going to see games slowed down dramatically.

It is just a question of time before one smarter manager figures this out.  Then the Group Think will set in.  The 2 pointer is going to turn Gaelic football into a basketball game.  I advise they drop the 2 pointer before the provincial championships.

[onefineday]

How long will the GAA stick with this idea of artificially creating more scoring with 2 point shots?  Clearly they have not thought this rule out long term because they aren't going to like what they see once managers figure out the strategy for it.

Being North American, the moment I heard about the 2 pointer I immediately thought about the NCAA introducing the 3 point shot to basketball.  It took a decade for coaches to eventually adapt, so I don't blame GAA managers for not having figured it out yet.  However after ten years all coaches had set their offence around the 3 point shot.  Consequently all defence strategy was planned around stopping the 3 pointer.  Thus basketball, which had great strategic diversity, succumbed to Group Think and every team has been playing the exact same game for a quarter century.

What's going to happen regarding the 2 pointer in Gaelic football?  Eventually every team will run their offence to set up the 2 point shot.  You're going to see less goals because goal chances are very low percentage and only net one extra point.  Load your lineup with 5 long kickers and bombs away!  Every team will end up playing the same strategy and same defence against that strategy(if you can defence it when the goalkeeper provides an odd man advantage).

But it will get worse.  Case in point Dublin v Kerry(in the wind!).  Dublin won that game because they held the ball 3 minutes at a time, whereas Kerry ran its regular offence.  Going against a wind which does not allow you to kick 2 pointers(but allows your opposition easy 2 point shots) time is more valuable than points.  Teams need to simply bring up their goalkeeper for an extra player then hold the ball.  There's nothing in the rules against them holding it 35 minutes.  Is there?

About this assumption that it's now harder to protect a lead.  When your opposition has the potential of scoring 2 pointers every possession, the smart play is to get the ball over centre, bring up your keeper then run the clock down.  Ultimately you are going to see games slowed down dramatically.

It is just a question of time before one smarter manager figures this out.  Then the Group Think will set in.  The 2 pointer is going to turn Gaelic football into a basketball game.  I advise they drop the 2 pointer before the provincial championships.

I'm in agreement Eoin and as I pointed out on the div 1 thread, goals are already drying up there, with one team, Donegal (with game's prime tactical innovator at the helm) have yet to score a goal.
The 100% increase in value of a point from outside the arc is so significant that the maths behind going for the low percentage goal option rarely makes sense.

[Saffron_sam20]

How long will the GAA stick with this idea of artificially creating more scoring with 2 point shots?  Clearly they have not thought this rule out long term because they aren't going to like what they see once managers figure out the strategy for it.

Being North American, the moment I heard about the 2 pointer I immediately thought about the NCAA introducing the 3 point shot to basketball.  It took a decade for coaches to eventually adapt, so I don't blame GAA managers for not having figured it out yet.  However after ten years all coaches had set their offence around the 3 point shot.  Consequently all defence strategy was planned around stopping the 3 pointer.  Thus basketball, which had great strategic diversity, succumbed to Group Think and every team has been playing the exact same game for a quarter century.

What's going to happen regarding the 2 pointer in Gaelic football?  Eventually every team will run their offence to set up the 2 point shot.  You're going to see less goals because goal chances are very low percentage and only net one extra point.  Load your lineup with 5 long kickers and bombs away!  Every team will end up playing the same strategy and same defence against that strategy(if you can defence it when the goalkeeper provides an odd man advantage).

But it will get worse.  Case in point Dublin v Kerry(in the wind!).  Dublin won that game because they held the ball 3 minutes at a time, whereas Kerry ran its regular offence.  Going against a wind which does not allow you to kick 2 pointers(but allows your opposition easy 2 point shots) time is more valuable than points.  Teams need to simply bring up their goalkeeper for an extra player then hold the ball.  There's nothing in the rules against them holding it 35 minutes.  Is there?

About this assumption that it's now harder to protect a lead.  When your opposition has the potential of scoring 2 pointers every possession, the smart play is to get the ball over centre, bring up your keeper then run the clock down.  Ultimately you are going to see games slowed down dramatically.

It is just a question of time before one smarter manager figures this out.  Then the Group Think will set in.  The 2 pointer is going to turn Gaelic football into a basketball game.  I advise they drop the 2 pointer before the provincial championships.

yeah the wind is gonna be a major factor, it already was to an extent with just the regular scoring, my fear is instead of rowing back theyll double down and go for the 4 pt goal again. just leave the scoring ffs

[The Trap]

3 games in reflections.
The problems with the game of football were 15 men behind the ball, using the goalkeeper to play keep ball and the fact that the rules in place were not being fully utilised.
So sort those out by:
Keep the 3 v 3
No backpass to keeper in either half.
Apply the rules e.g.
If there is a foul on a 2v2 throw up blow it.
If a ref hears verbals give the player a black card.
That's all the game needs. Easier to ref at all levels as well.

[EoinW]

I'm working my way through previous posts and want to thank everyone for their comments.  It's interesting to read so many different opinions.

One which caught my attention was this idea "the game is dying."  I hadn't noticed.  In fact, with scoring in the teens most games, I thought it was looking pretty good.  Certainly the Ulster championship is as good as it has ever been(ignoring the actual championship game being decided by penalty kicks!!!).

I thought the only problem was a certain lack of competitiveness, with Dublin/Kerry dominating Leinster/Munster.  But when has Dublin and Kerry NOT dominated their province?

Getting back to the 'game is dying" idea.  I went back to 1925 for a random peek into the past.  Setting aside all the protested games - my goodness Gaelic footballers must have been sensitive souls back then!(or they were all a bunch of cheaters!) - there wasn't even an All-Ireland Final.  Mayo defeated Wexford in one Semi Final, with the other two Provincial champs disqualified.  Then two months later Mayo lost the Connacht Final to Galway and the GAA declared Galway All-Ireland champs.

Now that kind of chaos is my idea of the game dying.  Yet Gaelic football survived that and a century later looks much better.

BTW go check out some of the scores from the 1925 championship.  The one that amazed me was the Munster final: Kerry 5-5 Clare 0-0.

I suggest the doomsters view the modern game with some historic perspective.  Remember the purpose of the championships is to decide the best county in each province and the best county in Ireland.  The purpose of the GAA is not to legislate parity.  Go watch the NFL if you want that.

[JoG2]

3 games in reflections.
The problems with the game of football were 15 men behind the ball, using the goalkeeper to play keep ball and the fact that the rules in place were not being fully utilised.
So sort those out by:
Keep the 3 v 3
No backpass to keeper in either half.
Apply the rules e.g.
If there is a foul on a 2v2 throw up blow it.
If a ref hears verbals give the player a black card.
That's all the game needs. Easier to ref at all levels as well.

While I don't mind some of the other rules, but I'd agree with you Trap, the all levels being the key part here

[statto]

3 games in reflections.
The problems with the game of football were 15 men behind the ball, using the goalkeeper to play keep ball and the fact that the rules in place were not being fully utilised.
So sort those out by:
Keep the 3 v 3
No backpass to keeper in either half.
Apply the rules e.g.
If there is a foul on a 2v2 throw up blow it.
If a ref hears verbals give the player a black card.
That's all the game needs. Easier to ref at all levels as well.

My initial thoughts were just to keep the 3 v3 and let everything else remain as it is and see where we go.
 The solo and go has been a welcome addition also. 

I have saw a few club challenge games and the rules have been in the main beneficial. Some of the club sides obviously  don't have keepers like Beggan/Morgan/Rafferty who can make a real difference in the 12 v 11. 

[tbrick18]

I was chatting to a referee at the Derry v Galway game and he told me an interesting one. Should a team concede a penalty, and remonstrate the decision with the ref (i.e. dissent), the penalty will be taken, followed by a free being awarded to the attacking team, who can chose to take a 2 pointer. So a penalty can potentially gain 5 points if anyone is deemed to be dissenting (is that a word?).

Mad.

[Rossfan]

What was also mad was in 2024 you'd go to a big inter Co Championship match and despite 10,20,30k or more spectators there was almost dead silence for 90% of the game.

[statto]

I was chatting to a referee at the Derry v Galway game and he told me an interesting one. Should a team concede a penalty, and remonstrate the decision with the ref (i.e. dissent), the penalty will be taken, followed by a free being awarded to the attacking team, who can chose to take a 2 pointer. So a penalty can potentially gain 5 points if anyone is deemed to be dissenting (is that a word?).

Mad.

Surely this is not true? Just black card the player remonstrating and allow the defending team to take the kick out.