Just heard details there of the Mayo panel for championship. Don't have a full list of names but two notable points. James Nallen is in. Ciaran McDonald isn't.
This would appear to signal the end of McD's inter-county career. The end for one of the best players of his generation.
Thanks for the memories Ciaran. You ensured that following Mayo was always entertaining. Its so unfortunate that he ends his career with Mayo without the ultimate success coming his way.
But you will always hold a place in the hearts of Mayo fans and, I'm sure, fans of football all over Ireland.
Really hope its not the last of him. The man had a ridiculous amount of natural footballing ability and could do things that maybe only 2 or 3 others in the country would even dream of trying. He seemed to be just that wee bit of consistency away from being one the best we've ever seen.
he'll be back in the summer if they put a run together
He is know to one of the members on this board who claims he is definetly finished with Mayo.
Unreal, a player of such class left to rust before his time was up.
Lets hope jom and co have some really good plan.
It's only April and I'd say we might see him out yet.
i suppose the only thing that would have enticed him back is if mayo were capable of winning another all-ireland- which unfortunately like most counties they aren't. unfortunate to be in the same era as a dominant kerry team.
Quote from: INDIANA on April 24, 2008, 11:02:07 AM
i suppose the only thing that would have enticed him back is if mayo were capable of winning another all-ireland- which unfortunately like most counties they aren't. unfortunate to be in the same era as a dominant kerry team.
But for Kerry, Mayo could have had at least one AI at this stage.
As a Sligo man and with the prospect of facing Mayo if/when we get over London its good news. As a fan of football its bad news. I hope its not the end but don't want to see him facing Sligo again!
This is very good news for Sligo. Hope its true no offence, but couldnt careless about Mayo ;). Any chance of conor mortimer, david heaney and few others calling it a day :P.
QuoteLets hope jom and co have some really good plan.
Ciaran Was availible for selection.
O mahony has now really piled the pressure on himself.After last years disater and no sign of improvement this year this looks like the action of a a very stupid man. they way mayo folded in most of the league games dipite being obvoiosly the better team points to the lack of leader ship that we only have had Brady and Mcdonald to Provide.
It takes a hell of a lot of blind faith to belive there is a coherent plan. but is that what us mayo fans are famous for
Sniper any notable omissions from the League Panel?
It's earlier than usual this year.
Hope he's back out for the summer. Great player to watch.
The aussies didnt think so though
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEWVajd7hUI
I hope this is not the end of the line for Ciaran with Mayo but word around the county is that it is.If Ciaran was available for selection and JOM didnt make contact it WILL come back to haunt him as we are not exactly blessed with natural scoring forwards and i still think Mc Donald has alot to offer.However if we dont see Ciaran in a mayo shirt again we will have plenty of memories.His 2 points against the kingdom in AIF 2004,his point from the sideline against the dubs and the winning point in that epic semi final were good enough to grace any stage.One of if not the best player we have ever produced and a true gentleman.
Fun and all as he is to watch, I think Mayo play better without him.
Should I put that in the 'post something controversial, you believe in' thread?
What age is he now? Is it just injury keeping him away from the game?
Apparently he is in flying form for cross at the miute.
Not going to give up on him returning yet. Of all the mayo lads who have walked away without that Celtic cross down the years McDanger s exit will be particularly poignant. A lot of these lads were special but Kieran is a once off. When he goes we wont see his likes again - anywhere. I m not giving up hope yet.
Whats interesting about that clip is the number of irish players prepared to stand back and watch 5 aussies lay into 1 Irish player. Gone are the days when guys like Peter Canavan at 5'8 or John Lynch were prepared to lay into 6ft + aussies. There are still some Irish players who are prepared to get stuck in - in the last series Sean Marty or Stevie McDonnell both got stuck into their opponents. One of the biggest factors in the last few series was the fear of the Irish players. To be fair to Ciaran McDonald despite being singled out for special attention he never once backed down and was prepared to stand up for himself.
I'm very much afraid that we have seen the last of Ciaran in a Mayo jersey.
Furthermore, the decision to opt out seems to be his.
It's been well known that he was furious at the way he was kept out of the game against Derry last year up to the last few minutes. He hasn't played with the county since then.
At the beginning of this year's league, JOM said he had been in contact with Ciaran about his fitness and would be kept informed on his progress. In other words, he had made contact with the man and was awaiting developments.
Then around the time of the Kerry game O'Mahony said he had invited Mac, Nallen and Ger Brady along to a trial game. He said he had given the "vets" lots of time to take a breathing space but he's be closing off the championship panel as soon as the league campaign was over.
It could be said that asking Ciaran to take part in a trial game would be an insult to the man but I'd read more into that "invitation."
It was an ultimatum.
"Are you coming back or not, and I need to know your plans before the league ends?" is what Mac was being told.
I'm terribly disappointed that we may have seen the last of him in the green and red.
Has this not happened before?
He is 33 exiled g he has a lot of miles on the clock for both club and county, he is our club captain this year so im hoping he has one more year left in him .
If it is the end of him in a Mayo jersey, can I just say thanks for the memories Ciarán. However, I know I will probably risk running the wrath of people on here but I also think Mayo play a faster game without him. I don't know, but he seems to want the ball all the time and kind of slows the game down. However, he is still one of our most natural footballers and I am just sorry for him that he didn't get an All-Ireland winners medal. As moysider says we will not see his likes again and he could be included in the panel. Especially when Nallen is.
QuoteI would have said always available for the pass. Always in the thick of things. Incredible footballer, and was a privilege to watch. Never media hungry either, just pure football.
You are dead right!
Back in 2006, when Mickey and Beefer were in charge, Ciaran got as bad name for slowing things down but he was strictly following the management plans. Remember the "nuts and bolts" theory or whatever they called it?
His job was to spray passes out to the corner forwards and have them then hump it into the full forward. Trouble is Mayo had no Paddy Bradley at no.14. As the campaign developed, some of the senior players objected and reverted to a more direct approach, feeding the ball through Alan Dillon.
Mac was only following orders and I know he stuck out like a sore thumb. But do ye remember the game against Dublin when Mac joined in with the others and played it their way?
I defy anyone say he slowed that game down!
I know Mayo play it faster and more direct now but wouldn't he be mighty altogether if he had a few younger lads to do the fetching and carrying and let him work his magic?.
Trouble was he didn't have talented enough players around him to interact with him.
This year might have been so different if he'd hadn't taken a hump.
Dont think he took a hump lar . Just probably felt management does not require him at that at 33 he has given enough at this stage
Quote from: rosnarun on April 24, 2008, 12:18:25 PM
QuoteLets hope jom and co have some really good plan.
Ciaran Was availible for selection.
O mahony has now really piled the pressure on himself.After last years disater and no sign of improvement this year this looks like the action of a a very stupid man. they way mayo folded in most of the league games dipite being obvoiosly the better team points to the lack of leader ship that we only have had Brady and Mcdonald to Provide.
It takes a hell of a lot of blind faith to belive there is a coherent plan. but is that what us mayo fans are famous for
You're trying to stir shite with that post rosnarun
Fab player really. His use of the outside of the left foot was great. Hairstyle crazy at times.
I have a feeling we will see him again this year. I dont think he was names in the panel at the start of last years championship either. If i am wrong i will be very disappointed that his career has ended this way. He is without question in the inner circle of the greatest players ever to wear the green and red.
McDanger will not be back, not at this stage. I reckon he just wants to concentrate on club football and try get an injury free run in the Cross team and enjoy his football. He cant come back now either and upset the plans johnno has in place now for the c\ship, im afraid we wont see McDanger in the red and green again..
Quote from: Davitt Man on April 25, 2008, 11:29:32 AM
McDanger will not be back, not at this stage. I reckon he just wants to concentrate on club football and try get an injury free run in the Cross team and enjoy his football. He cant come back now either and upset the plans johnno has in place now for the c\ship, im afraid we wont see McDanger in the red and green again..
your spot on there Davitt Man
My advice to everyone would be to go and watch Cross in the c\ship (thank god we dont have Cross in the groups again) this year and watch McD do what he does best because we wont see the likes of him again on the fields of Mayo again. Class act and never gave a sh1te about the media. Remember when Mayo beat Galway in Tuam to break the 47 year hoodoo, McD came off the bench and bagged a few points, a sunday game reporter after the game says to him, does it feel good to break the Tuam hoodoo, McDanger says "f**k the hoodoo". Class
I know it was inevitable Davitt Man that McDonald would stop playing for Mayo, sad though to see it happen. Would still like to see him back for the championship, still think he has a lot to offer.
You're trying to stir shite with that post rosnarun
[/quote]
which part ?
the Omahony part ? A chant currently popular in stamford bridge comes to mind from what ive seen if mayo since he took over. mayo have gone steadily backwards in his reign and getting shut of Ciaran is not going to help that.
As regards to his return . I know for a fact he is fully willing to return but has NOT been invited back to training.
Maybe the Sligo game will se the back of o mahony and at the moment thats the only Way will will see Ciarans return unless JOM get down off his high horse.
The more I think about it, the more I feel O'Mahony is being unwise.
It doesn't matter a damn which of them is throwing the rattle out of his pram. If O'Mahony doesn't go the full way this year, Mayo fans will always be thinking, "If only Mac was there."
Even if Ciaran is being stubborn, it would do no harm for the management to try and appreciate things from his point of view. We need him and we want him to end his career in a dignified way, and at a time of his choosing. This is no way to mark his departure.
No matter what O'Mahony may do hereafter and I wish him the very best, he will always be the man who dropped Ciaran McDonald.
Conor Moran, Enda Varley, Brian Benson + Colm Cafferkey not named in panel. Neither is Chris Barrett. it s my understanding a few places are being held for injured players. Maybe mac might slip in there.
This is the voice of reason from Moysider. It's a long road yet, and there's no need for hullaballoo.
Something struck me this morning on my way into work - when Johnno signed on, he was talking a lot about dampening expectations in Mayo. If that was one of his goals, he's succeeded admirably. I don't know anyone that expects bugger all from this year. :-\
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 25, 2008, 04:06:09 PM
This is the voice of reason from Moysider. It's a long road yet, and there's no need for hullaballoo.
Something struck me this morning on my way into work - when Johnno signed on, he was talking a lot about dampening expectations in Mayo. If that was one of his goals, he's succeeded admirably. I don't know anyone that expects bugger all from this year. :-\
he has succeeded in that allright ICC not a lot expected this year , i thought politicians were usually optimistic ;)
I dont know what Johnno is doing either but I remember some things he did in the past.
1. He got every last yard, never mind miles, out of players like Kevin Malsh, Tomás Mannion and Ja Fallon when in Galway so it would seem odd if its the case he feels Mac has little to offer at 33. Obviously he felt the above 3 were vital to galway. Does he feel the same about Mac and say Nallen? His limited use of them in last year s championship suggests not. The Galway trio always started for Galway well into their thirties.
2. This is Johnno s first real go at building a team. Previously he inherited mature teams and took them further. In the case of Mayo#1 the team stagnated after his first 2 years. In Galway too the team was basically ran aground post 01 and became tactically bankrupt as well. He was not successful in integrating new players into the team and basically when the lads he inherited were spent that was that.
3. Oddly last year he wasted little time in dismantling Mickey Moran's team, arguably the second best team in Ireland[ the dublin team we beat 06 is still basically the same as going still]. Older hands were kept on but got little game time when it mattered most. The spin, that most lazy journalists bought, that he gave the older lads one last chance last year is just that - spin. Worryingly some of his rebuilding attempts have already crumbled. Hanley was outside his control but the Kilcullen Brother expedition was a waste of time at this stage. Hopefully he knows what he s at.
Are ye sure McD is 33?
He was the same age group as me underage and im not 32 till august. He should have a few years left in him if he so chooses
Quote from: moysider on April 25, 2008, 05:22:30 PM
Hanley was outside his control but the Kilcullen Brother expedition was a waste of time at this stage.
This comment intrigues me - is there a feeling in the 'mainland' that Johnno tried to fast track in some Ballagh lads, denying the 'indigenous' Mayo players their rightful place on the panel, or something like that? I don't think he can be slagged off for trying out promising Ballagh players, even if it didn't quite work out.
Quote from: moysider on April 25, 2008, 05:22:30 PM
Hopefully he knows what he s at.
::)
Quote from: Davitt Man on April 25, 2008, 11:37:19 AM
My advice to everyone would be to go and watch Cross in the c\ship (thank god we dont have Cross in the groups again) this year and watch McD do what he does best because we wont see the likes of him again on the fields of Mayo again. Class act and never gave a sh1te about the media.
Really Great player & I always enjoyed watching him - his battle with Francie Grehan in 2001 was one of the great duels, with both vying for man-of-the-match afterwards. Very strong on the ball, he had vision & skills to burn too. Good Luck to him, he gave a lot to Mayo, even if it wasn't always appreciated by some.
Quote from: spectator on April 25, 2008, 08:16:37 PM
Quote from: moysider on April 25, 2008, 05:22:30 PM
Hanley was outside his control but the Kilcullen Brother expedition was a waste of time at this stage.
This comment intrigues me - is there a feeling in the 'mainland' that Johnno tried to fast track in some Ballagh lads, denying the 'indigenous' Mayo players their rightful place on the panel, or something like that? I don't think he can be slagged off for trying out promising Ballagh players, even if it didn't quite work out.
Quote from: moysider on April 25, 2008, 05:22:30 PM
Hopefully he knows what he s at.
::)
Quote from: Davitt Man on April 25, 2008, 11:37:19 AM
My advice to everyone would be to go and watch Cross in the c\ship (thank god we dont have Cross in the groups again) this year and watch McD do what he does best because we wont see the likes of him again on the fields of Mayo again. Class act and never gave a sh1te about the media.
Really Great player & I always enjoyed watching him - his battle with Francie Grehan in 2001 was one of the great duels, with both vying for man-of-the-match afterwards. Very strong on the ball, he had vision & skills to burn too. Good Luck to him, he gave a lot to Mayo, even if it wasn't always appreciated by some.
Eh? What s that about? Who s slagging anybody off. All I said was he spent most of last year with lads at 3 and 6 [ kinda important positions you might accept] that are no longer in the panel. That constitutes a waste of time in anybodys language. Was he right to try them? Yes. Were they successful? Not really but they had something[ at least 1 did] to offer going forward. Where are they now? Dont know and not sure the reasons why they re gone. But he s the manager and if he thought they had something to offer then why are they missing. Course he was right to try them. Not like they re from another county or anything ;) Here in Mayo we know that Ballagh lads are indigenous/ mainland in a football context. Always were. Always will be. Now that they re not around anymore it was time wasted. And you might explain your eye rolling gesture. Did nt quite get what that was about?
Superb footballer - one of the men you'd pay in to see no matter who you supported. This thread reminds me of the Armagh thread when Marsden retired; these things are rarely actually the end. I'd say he'll play another game for Mayo - possibly many.
QuoteBut for Kerry, Mayo could have had at least one AI at this stage.
Would definitely disagree with this point - biased though I may be - Armagh were a better side in 04 and 06 than Mayo were, in my opinion.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on April 25, 2008, 04:06:09 PM
This is the voice of reason from Moysider. It's a long road yet, and there's no need for hullaballoo.
Something struck me this morning on my way into work - when Johnno signed on, he was talking a lot about dampening expectations in Mayo. If that was one of his goals, he's succeeded admirably. I don't know anyone that expects bugger all from this year. :-\
Of course you re right Iolar. Its astonishing really. How he got away with that condescending spin is a credit to the fawning hacks locally, and also suits the national view of Mayo football sometimes being a distracting sideshow to the real stuff involving Dublin in waiting or Kerry and whoever they ll lorry next. I ve no problem with Johnno being Mayo manager but if he replaces Mickey and John he must bring something more to the table than just lower expectations. We ve always got likes of Pat McAnaneny and Kerry to make sure we re kept in our place. What the fkuc is wrong with raising interest and expectations in football in any county. Maughan and Mickey gave us great days. The fact that we ended up depressed in the end is an occupational hazard. I would gladly go through the disappointment of the defeats to experience the highs of likes of Kerry 96, Galway 99 and Dublin 06 again. Johnno has a bit to do to reach those marks. Yet I would argue he has as a good as resources to do so as other recent managers. Maughan and Moran got to All Ireland finals in first year, Maughan from Div. 3. Johnno was nt brought in with his 2 Galway All Irelands to bring us in the opposite direction. All fans want is their team to have the best team on the pitch , set up properly and give it a good go and have a clue what they re about.. Johnno is a man who has achieved legendary status as a manager in Leitrim and Galway. One of his great strengths as manager in those counties was appreciating and getting the best of veteran players like Mickey Quinn and Kevin Walsh. Yet when he gets the Mayo job he takes the knife to the team who were no. 2 in 06. Last years team bore no resemblance to that outfit. Surely he must have understood the need to keep a competitive team intact. It s not his fault that we never got to see much of O Neill and Mac together in the same team but surely over the last 15 years it could have happened a few times. Would that have been expecting too much. Having those 2 with James Horan would have been asking too much altogether ::) So our expectations were too high! And when John Casey was flying - surely we could nt ask for that. Him and the other three.? Too much expectation altogether! How about Peter Butler, Padraig Brogan and Kevin Staunton? Yeah he s right. It would have spoiled us for good if we were allowed to watch those lads play any more than a few games for Mayo. I for one expect a lot this year Iolar. For a team that was leaderless and tactically inept [ our Hail Mairy option Barry Moran almost saved us - at the time lauded , since scorned, but you can bet your life that it will be tried again when the current whatever set-up does nt work] last year in Celtic park we ve bounced back well and we ve as good a pick of players as any Mayo manager has had. Rather than dampen expectations i reckon management must deliver a big honest push this year. Thats all. Nobody will beat Kerry but teams must be around if Kerry trip up. Anyway for likes of us and most other teams there will always be a Kerry
This is the panel I was told. No sign of Ger Brady in it it seems. 29 named with Chris Barrett provisionally the 30th subject to injury clearing up. . .
David Clarke, Shane Nallen, James Nallen, Aidan Higgins, Keith Higgins, Kieran Conroy, Tom Cunniffe, Colm Boyle, Trevor Howley, David Heaney, Liam O'Malley, Pat Kelly, Peader Gardiner, Billy Joe, Trevor Mort, Ronan McGarrity, Seamus O'Shea, Tom Parsons, Barry Moran, Pat Harte, Aidan Kilcoyne, Andy Moran, Mickey Mullins Conor Mort, Austin O'Malley, Mark Ronaldson, James Gill, Aidan Campbell, Alan Dillon, Chris Barrett (PROV)
Just an observation there's only one player (Andy Moran) from the probable favourites for the county title - Ballaghaderreen. County champions Ballina only have three (they had seven at one stage in the not too distant past) and then you have Shrule/Glencorrib with four and an intermediate club Belmullet with three. Not questioning any of the players involved, just interesting the way it can pan out sometimes . . .
QuoteYet when he gets the Mayo job he takes the knife to the team who were no. 2 in 06.
Not being from Mayo I won't try and get into the 'small print' of Mayo football but if any of ye believe the above then ye are delusional. Cork were well beaten in last years AI, are they the second best team in the country, or Limerick in the hurling? I'm a huge fan of Mayo football, your passion for the game, the positive way ye play football and Ciaran Mac makes you every neutrals favourite team but many of you seem inable to critically assess your team in an unbiased manner. What MM achieved in his time with Mayo was very impressive yet he was sacked with few dissenting voices, now JOM is coming under pressure because of.......... well I'm not sure really. You have no full back or center back, your midfield is at best decent without a proven partner for MacGarrity (who is no Darragh O'Se). The forwards are decent but ask yourselves how many would make the Kerry, Dublin, Galway, Derry, Donegal, Tyrone (with O'Neill and McGuigan), Armagh or Cork forward lines. Obviously some of them would and other's could be argued about but I think only Mortimer and Dillion would be close on all other forward lines and they wouldn't be the main men on any of them.
While CMac is a joy to behold he did slow up the game and made Mayo easier to defend against, IMO O'Mahoney is right to clear out most of the old guard. If they couldn't lead you to an AI before they won't do it now, it is time to allow new leaders to emerge, new tailismen to develop and build for the future. JOM should be given time to create a new team, he may not win an AI for Mayo but if he doesn't it will be as much to do with a lack of playing talent as any failings on his own part.
QuoteWould it not be better to keep a guy around as long as he has something to offer?
It depends IMO ML, there is obviously no hard and fast rule here but I think that when CMac is playing with Mayo they try to get the ball to him all the time and therefore opponents can defend against them more easily, if he is marked out of a game Mayo tend to struggle. Don't get me wrong if I were Mayo coach I'd still have him in the panel but I think JOM is taking a bit of unfair criticism here, he did get them to the league final and lost to Galway and Derry (away) in the championship. That isn't a terrible record is it? Are Mayo so good at the moment that they can expect to beat those two teams? I don't think they are, in addition Galway, Derry and Dublin are stronger now than they have been for a good few years, while Kerry are shaping up to be invincible over the foreseeable future, throw in a much improved Monaghan and an improving Cork and it's hard to see Mayo even making the semi's. But if they do get knocked out at the QF stage by one of the teams I've mentioned I'm positive some Mayo lads will come on here claiming that JOM has brought Mayo back not forward and they'll use the fact that they got to the AI in 06 as proof, which it simply wouldn't be. I think JOM is a fine manager and will get the best out of the squad he has available and that is all can be asked of any manager.
Quote from: Zulu on April 26, 2008, 11:22:32 AM
QuoteYet when he gets the Mayo job he takes the knife to the team who were no. 2 in 06.
While CMac is a joy to behold he did slow up the game and made Mayo easier to defend against,
you'd be right there. at club level he runs the show for crossmolina usually. he does the same for them as he did for mayo in that he demands the ball to be handed to him out round midfield then he'll ping a 40 yard pass into the fullforward line. that has worked very well for cross for years because they have a bloody good team and when your that bit better then the players round you, you can afford to do this. however when it comes to intercounty you cant always get away with this cos people are fitter, faster and stronger. while the 40 yard bullet of a daisycutting pass looks class, to achieve this you have to take a couple of seconds to line it up and that inherently takes the pace out of the entire move. many believe and i agree that he would have been better placed in the full forward line on the edge of the square.
as a finisher in his early years he was lethal (still is for crossmolina). id say he would have racked up a serious haul of goals for himself but that means taking responsibility.
i dont want to criticise him, but it seems to me he didnt want the responsibility of being scorer-in-chief like conor mortimer is doing now. thats a stressful role to have. i dont think he wanted that and thats fair enough too. but i think he could have scored much more heavily over the years. we can point to the incredible moments in the dublin game to highlight the mans genius - the sideline kick over the bar from the cusack side and the winning point into the silent hill but had neither of them gone over nobody would have batted an eyelid. they were outragous (in a good way) and ambitious in the extreme. the gambles paid off and we all got very drunk that night celebrating the moment and the man but i still feel his role should and could have been so much different and that his natural ability with the ball would have been better placed closer to the goals where he himself could inflict pain on the unfortunate fullback who would have to mark him. he is a strong man and well able to win his own when push comes to shove.
its always ifs buts and maybes when it comes to mayo football.
This notion of slowing up the play amuses me it seems like someone on tv must have said it once about mc and then everone decided yes thats right he slows up the play too much. i didn't hear many people complaining in 2004 when we got to the Ai , what is a centehalf forwards role get his hand on the ball and let in quality ball to the cornerforwards which would you prefer an accurate pass comig in to you which you actually have a chance of winning or a long ball humped in to the forward line . Also this notion that Ciaran is a full forward is nonsense as he played all his footballing carreer with Cross at number 11 and having watched him play that is the only position for him as i said before he neds to get his hands on the ball .
Quote from: prewtna on April 26, 2008, 12:38:42 PM
i dont want to criticise him, but it seems to me he didnt want the responsibility of being scorer-in-chief like conor mortimer is doing now. thats a stressful role to have. i dont think he wanted that and thats fair enough too. but i think he could have scored much more heavily over the years.
Ok i remember looking at the match programme before the All Ireland in 2006 and after Conor Mort who is the freetaker the next top scorer for mayo was mc with an average of 3 points per game played so in fairness i don't think it can be said that he didn't take responsibilty its funny when he 1 played for mayo he was accused of shooting on sight and not passing and been greedy so it just shows you can't win and please the public
Quoteand well able to win his own when push comes to shove
He would have got plenty of both pushing and shoving from Kerry.
Think O'Mahoney should have him involved and make a serious assault on AI this year - none of this playing down expectations stuff. Looking at the Mayo panel it is as good as any in the country and it is up to O'Mahoney to get the best out of the players he has. The real success for Kerry in recent years is how much they have got out of ordinary enough players like, Aidan O'Mahoney, Tommy Griffin, Seamus O'Sullivan, Galvin, Scanlon (last year). Even Mark and Tomás O' Sé were nothing exceptional as minors yet Kerry have this ability to get the most out of players and to develop players both in terms of skill and confidence. Mayo have as strong a pool of footballers and club football there is at least as good as it is in Kerry. No reason they should not be contenders this year unless they lack ambition and balls.
ya fair enough mort didnt perform in all-irelands for mayo but to be honest not many mayo men have! but without him scoring as heavily as he did in all the matches before the ill-fated finals mayo wouldnt have been there at all.
well i think in fairness the way mayo are playing this year, they are in general leaving andy moran and conor mort in the full forward line and letting the ball into them. (not always i know but quite a bit) it seems to be working fairly well in that the lads out the field seem capable enough of getting it in even though we havent really been winning midfield battles. so ya i think even with the limited supply out the field they do seem to manage decent enough ball into the lads inside. if Big Mac was in there instead of andy moran lord only knows how much he would score.
ya mayo and galway were brutal last year in the connacht champo. i only saw it on tv cos i was living away but it looked shocking. i think your right about galway turning a corner. if they played in the morning n the champo id say galway would win.
as for the derry game. it was a bad day all round. sitting in the rain in celtic park there was a general feeling that we could have won the game with all the possession we had before derry kicked on in the last 15 minutes, but we wouldnt have deserved it at all and derry did.
there was an uneasy mix of old and young in that championship panel. uneasy because jonno had to let the old guard have one last lash at it clearly the likes of brady and i hate to say it nallen aswell wasnt up to it anymore. i think he is putting his faith in the young lads. it must be rembered a lot of them lads have U-21 medals so they are not bad players.
what role would james nallen have now in the panel? level headed campaigner to settle young nerves? i dont know him but id say he would be invaluable like that but not as a core player any more.
mayo wont win an all-ireland this year but they seem to be shaping into a decent enough team. id be happy enough with how things are going to be honest.
Quote from: moysider on April 25, 2008, 09:50:39 PM
Eh? What s that about? Who s slagging anybody off. All I said was he spent most of last year with lads at 3 and 6 [ kinda important positions you might accept] that are no longer in the panel. That constitutes a waste of time in anybodys language. Was he right to try them? Yes. Were they successful? Not really but they had something[ at least 1 did] to offer going forward. Where are they now? Dont know and not sure the reasons why they re gone. But he s the manager and if he thought they had something to offer then why are they missing. Course he was right to try them.
Fair enough re- your clarification there, moysider.
I see now that you weren't criticising Johnno - or the Ballagh lads you solely named previously - & largely endorse Johnno's approach.
But say a lad is given a run & is subsequently uninvolved, you seem to be saying that that then reflects badly on the manager?
I think it's important for ye over there to give Johnno time to build a team, as;
(1) he's probably one of the few managers capable of getting ye over the line some September Sunday
(2) Given some of the criticism that ended his first stint in charge [incorrect team selection etc] it'd be a backwards step to undermine his efforts at this stage, whatever about the soreness at the dropping some of some older guys who's best days may possibly have been behind them anyway.
Given Johnno's track record, judgement should be reserved at least until the end of the season imo. To be questioning his ability to build a new team is a bit worrying though - is the general creeping criticism of Johnno over there politically motivated do you think, or is it really purely a footballing thing?
Whatever, a lot of countys would give their right arm to have a manager of his ability at the helm.
i think a lot of people are being a bit unfair on o mahoney. it'll take him 3-5 years to get mayo into a position to challenge kerry, at least 3 years. they have like most others no chance this year and i'd say mc donald knows it. he probably has 2 years left at that level but i'd say he doubts mayo's ability to get up there again. he's not going to come back for a connacht title he has enough of those. Mayo are in a similar boat to the likes of dublin,tyrone,armagh and cork- good enough to win a provincial title but not good enough to win the all-ireland.
It is fair to say that JOM needs time to turn the whole Mayo thing around. We have an awful lot of very young promising players, and those carrying the scars of the past.
He started off on the wrong foot though in last years championship and to date has failed to show that any real questions that have been posed to have have been resolved by him.
BUT championship is where it is at and championship is where he should be judged.
Have no doubt but that if Mayo lose to Sligo he is a dead man walking after shipping two ten point defeats last year. It is as blunt as that. Maughan and Moran walked the plank for a lot less. I'm not saying any of these decisions was right or wrong - its just the reality of the situation.
However the height of our ambition for this year has to be a Connacht title. Its no big ask. Galway are good but are due in Castlebar. We may compete in an All Ireland Quarter Final if we were to get there and get a good draw, but then again our backs look like they could be torn apart in the wide spaces.
There is going to be a lot of frustration before we can consider ourselves contenders for Sam again.
Sligo were relegated from division 3, please read between the lines on Mayo having to play sligo and the expected result.
Plain english. Sligo will be beaten by Mayo, not because Mayo are great but because sligo are very poor at the minite.
Mayo should have macdonald on the panel, anything else is stupid unless he is unfit.
ever consider that maybe he doesn't want to be there? does anyone know for certain that o mahoney doesn't want him there? i think like i said above that he knows in the short term there is no hope of sam. kerry are likely to dominate similar to the late 70's and early 80's for the forseeable future. have to say i'm surprised nallen is there- very good in his day but he'd be cleaned out in croker now.
QuoteMaughan and Moran walked the plank for a lot less. I'm not saying any of these decisions was right or wrong - its just the reality of the situation.
There's another reality there also, Barney, and I imagine it is clear to O'Mahony as well.
Mayo people are usually as clear-headed and logical as can be found anywhere else.
However, when it comes to football, logic goes out the window. It's a case of, "Sam or damn," every championship; would winning a Connacht final satisfy any of us in any year?
It puts huge pressure on a manager to deliver and the same goes for the players. Nothing short of Sam will satisfy any of us, me included.
That's unfair but that's the way it is.
Now, supposing Mayo does unexpectedly well this year but can't last the entire course. Worse still, we get to the final and lose narrowly. Can anyone see O'Mahony getting due praise for his achievements?
Most of us, unfairly maybe, will blame Mac's omission as the cause of failure and I wouldn't put much money on Johnno's chances of re-election any time soon.
That too is the reality of the situation; the stakes are high for the Blueshirt if he doesn't fill the no.30 spot on his panel the right way!
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 26, 2008, 06:57:15 PM
Now, supposing Mayo does unexpectedly well this year but can't last the entire course. Worse still, we get to the final and lose narrowly. Can anyone see O'Mahony getting due praise for his achievements?
Most of us, unfairly maybe, will blame Mac's omission as the cause of failure and I wouldn't put much money on Johnno's chances of re-election any time soon.
Ah Jaysus Lar, that's a whole lot of supposing, don't you think? It's only April yet. There are a few games to be played yet, you know. :D
I know what you mean alright, Iolar, and it is a lot of supposing. But I'm not running off to blame Johnno here and now. I hope it never comes to pass and maybe, just maybe, if the Blonde One does make a re-appearance somewhere along the line it will be all for the best.
But Mayo folk are stone mad about football and Johnno may feel a backlash if we don't go the whole way. That's not fair but you know the score with Mayo fans.
I honestly don't think we can win this year, with or without Mac- the side is developing fine but is not good enough yet.
Probably Mac has his own reasons for not playing but who will be blamed if poor Johnno doesn't deliver this year? ;)
incredible amount of BS being written here " he needs time to turn things around" FFS the guy inheritrd an AIF losing team not kilkenny . " 3 to 5 years to get it write" " what manager is allowed 5 years of excuses.
if there was even any sign of a coherent plan he would be awarded patience but going back to AOM at FF still no full back or ebven a full back line .
id bet against any one getting all 3 names correct for the connacht final. mine would be kelly keaney and o'malley but there are still about 15 variations it could be . he obviously playing it by ear but hopefully with his place of work on holiday he may be able to put more thought into it now
he's inherited a team annilaiated in two all-ireland finals, with a number of promisng u21's who need time to mature. i 'd say he needs 3 years. Mayo fans basically want sam or nothing else- they don't have the players to win an all-ireland, o mahoney can't play for them. you can be the best manager in the world, but if you don;t have the players you're screwed. they seem to have a lot of players around the same standard.
Exactly Indiana, Mayo lads on this forum were basically saying JOM was the only man that could deliver Sam and if the CB could get him back he would deliver. MM got a fair deal of criticism during his short spell despite getting an ageing and fairly average squad to the AI. Now JOM is begining to get the same and some Mayo lads here are persisting with the argument that you have players the equal of any other county. Well since Kerry are the bench mark and to win the AI you'll probably have to beat them let's compare Kerry and Mayo in some of the crucial positions.
Full Back: Mark O'Se V any likely Mayo FB - Winner Mark O'Se
Centre Back: Adian O'Mahoney V any likely Mayo CB - Winner A. O'Mahoney
Mid Field: Darragh O'Se V R. McGarrity - Winner D. O'Se
Centre Forward: D. O'Sullivan V A. Dillion - Winner debateable IMO but O'Sullivan would shade it for me
Full Forward: K. Donaghy V AOM - Winner Donaghy, though I think AOM is a decent league player
Scorer in chief: Gooch V C. Mort - Winner Gooch
Bench: Kerry V Mayo - Winner Kerry (by a country mile)
If JOM can get this Mayo team to beat this Kerry team in a do or die championship match he is a footballing genius. In addition some of you are using his inability to solve the FB/CB problem as a stick to beat him with, yet I haven't seen any of you come up with a concensus player for either posistion. If they are not there then they are not there and no coach can produce what's not there. Hound him out if you want lads but you'll only be doing the same with the guy who replaces him a year or two later. You have a Mayo man with a proven track record give him time to get the best out of what's available to him and get yer heads out of yer asses because you're at least 2-3 years away from winning Sam, unfortunately.
Zulu most of us are happy with Trevor Howley at CB even though he had a difficult time with McGuigan in Omagh (who hasn't). He was on the successful U-21 team and will hopefully go on to at least match Aiden O'Mahony, though he will never be a Moynihan.
FB is still a problem and the current incumbent is very new so I will reserve judgement.
Dara O'Shea is at least 176 years old now so you can keep him I'd take McGarrity who is still in his mid 20s. Ronan's problem is finding a partner. Parsons will probably start and played very well in the U-21 semi v Kerry but he is still U-21 next year and will take a few years to become hopefully a top class inter-county midfielder.
While I agree Mayo would be unlikely (not impossible though) to beat Kerry in the business end of the Championship anything can happen before that. e.g. Cork are well capable of taking Kerry in Munster and then maybe a nice trip to Healy Park or even Derry might trip them up. Monaghan nearly did it in Croker last year and the Dubs seem to raise their games for the Kingdom.
There is a reason very very few teams have won a 3 in a row (even Armagh and Tyrone's titles combined didn't come consequetively) and from a selfish Mayo respective it doesn't have to be us that stops them (thankfully).
We gave Kerry a good game in 05 in the quarter-final remember...
I've been saying that Mayo folks are very demanding and expect Sam every year. Anything less will be regarded as a failure. That's not realistic and it puts tremendous strain on management and players alike.
It means we get through a fair amount of managers and players feel the hand of history too.
Since O'Mahony first took charge in the late 80s to his second coming now, every manager has left under duress of some sort.
The players in '96 folded up, when 6 points up and twenty minutes to go. Don't forget 2004 and, after a superb, gutsy fightback against Dublin, they cracked again in 2006 against Kerry.
O'Mahony has said he'd give the job three years, so we can't talk of 5 years plans under him. I think he is developing a good side, with many exciting young players coming through, but he can't work miracles. If he hasn't got a good, say, fullback then he can't invent one!
Mac doesn't appear to be part of the plans for this year, and none of us know why, but you can bet O'Mahony will be blamed if we lose out again and Mac isn't playing.
I should know better but I will be disappointed with a Connacht title or a last eight spot. The same goes for most Mayo followers. It's unreasonable, I know, but it's a fact nonetheless.
QuoteZulu I find it daft that you are comparing individuals in a team game. While it is nice to appreciate individual talent, it is the sum of the parts that matter.
Of course you can compare individuals in a team game, while football is a team game it is made up of 14 individual battles, show me the team with the dominant FB, CB, MF, CF and FF and I'll show you the team most likely to win. Teams rarely win if they lose most of those positional battles, anyway it is not Mayo's quality vis a vis other teams that is the real point but the fact that JOM is coming under undue pressure IMO. Mayo are definately a top 10 team and if Kerry were beaten by someone else then they'd have as good a chance as anyone else but i still think they are a bit weaker than 4 or so other counties at the moment so getting to and performing well in an AI semi would be a good championship IMO. I hope I'm proven wrong and they go on to win the AI this year but I think if ye give JOM time to get it right he will do as good a job as possible.
Quote from: Zulu on April 27, 2008, 12:00:07 PM
Exactly Indiana, Mayo lads on this forum were basically saying JOM was the only man that could deliver Sam and if the CB could get him back he would deliver. MM got a fair deal of criticism during his short spell despite getting an ageing and fairly average squad to the AI. Now JOM is begining to get the same and some Mayo lads here are persisting with the argument that you have players the equal of any other county. Well since Kerry are the bench mark and to win the AI you'll probably have to beat them let's compare Kerry and Mayo in some of the crucial positions.
Full Back: Mark O'Se V any likely Mayo FB - Winner Mark O'Se
Centre Back: Adian O'Mahoney V any likely Mayo CB - Winner A. O'Mahoney
Mid Field: Darragh O'Se V R. McGarrity - Winner D. O'Se
Centre Forward: D. O'Sullivan V A. Dillion - Winner debateable IMO but O'Sullivan would shade it for me
Full Forward: K. Donaghy V AOM - Winner Donaghy, though I think AOM is a decent league player
Scorer in chief: Gooch V C. Mort - Winner Gooch
Bench: Kerry V Mayo - Winner Kerry (by a country mile)
If JOM can get this Mayo team to beat this Kerry team in a do or die championship match he is a footballing genius. In addition some of you are using his inability to solve the FB/CB problem as a stick to beat him with, yet I haven't seen any of you come up with a concensus player for either posistion. If they are not there then they are not there and no coach can produce what's not there. Hound him out if you want lads but you'll only be doing the same with the guy who replaces him a year or two later. You have a Mayo man with a proven track record give him time to get the best out of what's available to him and get yer heads out of yer asses because you're at least 2-3 years away from winning Sam, unfortunately.
If you did this test on any team in the country Zulu you d get the same result. Reality is Kerry are streets away ahead everybody else.
QuoteIf you did this test on any team in the country Zulu you d get the same result. Reality is Kerry are streets away ahead everybody else.
You're probably right moysider, though I think some county's would fare better than Mayo in those match up's. The point I was making is that it is unfair to expect JOM to deliver an AI this year, if he does Mayo will have certainly enjoyed some overdue luck.
QuoteUndue pressure, surely no one should take a job at inter county level if they aren't expecting pressure
I agree ML there is always pressure at IC level but JOM is less than 2 years into his stint and he has delivered AI titles before so I don't think he warrents too much criticism yet. In fact from what I have seen of Mayo they are shaping up quite nicely and should do well in the championship, however unlike many Mayo posters I don't think it would be a disaster if they lost to Galway in the Connacht championship as long as they did well enough in the qualifiers (i.e. got to the semi's). All I'm saying is a teams performance isn't always down to the fralities of the management but rather the players at his disposal and I'd only criticise a manager if I felt he wasn't getting the best out of his players. IMO there is little evidence to suggest this is the case with Mayo under JOM.
I've said it on here before - Ciaran is probably still the best player in the county. But it's obvious for a while now that he wasn't interested in p[laying inter county this year. Good luck to him in his retirement
Quote from: stephenite on April 28, 2008, 12:04:28 AM
I've said it on here before - Ciaran is probably still the best player in the county. But it's obvious for a while now that he wasn't interested in p[laying inter county this year. Good luck to him in his retirement
Exactly. Best of luck to the fella. Fans would love to see him announce a comeback but the reality is if he did come back at this stage he would be on the bench like last year and only introduced when the game was up. He knows that. He would nt be in a pecking order to start unless we got to an unlikely semi final. Not a criticism of managamant, thats the way things work out. The more I think of it now I cant see him back. Elvis has left the building.
i would agree with most posters that we will not see mcd in a mayo jersey again.he is without doubt the best mayo footballer i have seen tho i have always felt within mayo that there were alot of supporters waiting to pounce on him if he had a bad game.even heard mayo supporters wanting to take him off inthe 2ind half against kerry in 2006 but even tho things were not going well for him he never hid and kept playing to the bitter end . on another note i am very surprised that ger cafferky is not on the panel as based on his u21 displays i thought he had a good chance of starting against sligo.j.o.m is taking alot of unfair critisism on here over mcd as none of us really know what happened behind the scenes tho the one big gripe i have with jom is the dampening down of expectations and he is always moaning about injuries and things like playing 4 away games in the n.f.l as if no other county has problems.despite all the stick maughan has gotten over the years, one thing i will always give him credit for is that when he was appointed in 95 the first thing he said was that he expected to win the all ireland and was not coming up with 3 and 5 year plans like jom
Those that are giving JOM a hard time on this issue are not being realistic at best or entirely unrearsonable at worst - McD was informed that if he wanted his place on the panel he could have it once he proved he had the required fitness, this minor requirement from management wasn't a problem for James Nallen, who deservedly is named on the panel - John O'Mahony could not be expected to name a 33 year old based on second hand reports of him flying in training and reputation on past performances.
Rosnarun - you've said that Ciaran was available for selection, that is patently not true, if he was available he would have taken himself along to training like James Nallen and everyone else.
That said - there is always the chance we'll see Mac back playing later in the summer, stranger things have happened.
God bless us Stephenite, such an hour of the morning to be posting, and it seems very coherent too.
Insomnia or a mad Mayo fan?
Just based in a different time zone
comparing individual player is a fun excercize but has littleng on the outcome of most matches.
that is where managers come in a team has to become more than a sum of its parts and that is why Mayo have got to 2 of the last 4 all-irelands. I have often heard the comment mayo played above then selves to get there . But that is what good managers acheive and that is where JOM has failed so badly sofar.
and leaving out you best player just makes the sum that bit smaller in the 1st place
Quote from: mayo51 on April 28, 2008, 03:13:07 AM
i would agree with most posters that we will not see mcd in a mayo jersey again.he is without doubt the best mayo footballer i have seen tho i have always felt within mayo that there were alot of supporters waiting to pounce on him if he had a bad game.even heard mayo supporters wanting to take him off inthe 2ind half against kerry in 2006 but even tho things were not going well for him he never hid and kept playing to the bitter end . on another note i am very surprised that ger cafferky is not on the panel as based on his u21 displays i thought he had a good chance of starting against sligo.j.o.m is taking alot of unfair critisism on here over mcd as none of us really know what happened behind the scenes tho the one big gripe i have with jom is the dampening down of expectations and he is always moaning about injuries and things like playing 4 away games in the n.f.l as if no other county has problems.despite all the stick maughan has gotten over the years, one thing i will always give him credit for is that when he was appointed in 95 the first thing he said was that he expected to win the all ireland and was not coming up with 3 and 5 year plans like jom
Yeah that's one name I was wondering about today. Surely given the lack of full-back options the under 21 full-back should be in the panel for development purposes at least? Either that or O'Mahony feels he has little to offer at this level. Not sure myself, injuries held him back with the club last year but from reports he really has been shining at Under 21 level.
On the McDonald issue it is hard to imagine him coming back now. When he came back in 2002 (v Tipperary) and in 2004 before the championship he had actually been away from the county team for reasons other than injury. This time it had been stated by JOM that a squad would be picked in advance of championship and McDonald was to aim for that. Whether McD did make himself available and JOM simply opted not to pick him or whether McD is simply not available is debatable. But the bottom line is that the line in the sand has been drawn - this looks like a final panel.
I agree with Lar, daggers will always be out for a Mayo manager if they don't win the All-Ireland. Completely unreasonable and you can understand O'Mahony wanting to dampen expectations. For me a Connacht title is a good year and so would players coming through that look like they can become championship players.
But if Mayo get to Croke Park people will start to get excited, start talking about how anything can happen 'on the day' and even if Mayo deserve to lose a game, the slightest management tactical indiscretion will be scrutinised as if that was the reason we lost. Its crazy when you stand back from it.
When was the last year Mayo fans were reasonably satisfied with a championship campaign and weren't complaining about management at one level or another? Not last year or 2006. 2005 perhaps given how competitive we were against Kerry in the All-Ireland qf after the hammering the previous September. Before that 2004, 2003, 2002, 2001 and 2000 were all marked by despair at our exits. 99 was considered a decent year after beating Galway in Tuam but there is a trend here - as a county we are very hard to please. Naturally an All-Ireland is the target in the long term but we have to be realistic too. We have to know when we simply weren't good enough and that hasn't been the case. It makes getting to our Nirvana all the more difficult imho
Rosnarun - can you confirm if O'Mahoney left him out or because Ciaran didn't attend the training match that others had to attend? If he attended and was left out it's a different story to him not being considered because he didn't make himself available for selection, JOM can't be blamed if he wasn't making himself available.
My brother taught Ciaran for a spell at second level.
He told me Ciaran was a lovely youngster - but only when you got to know him. He was always an individual of few words but he always thought a lot about what he would say or do.
They do meet up from time to time and, as always, their conversation is short and to the point. Sean never brings up Ciaran's future plans and the man himself never refers to them either.
But if he trusts you, he likes you. He does an awful lot of good work, especially for kids with special needs, such as autism. He certainly keeps this side of his life private.
Crossmolina posters probably know what I'm referring to.
Two things he has mentioned that have hurt him deeply are the amount of dirty play he has had to endure at club or county level and the failure of referees to give him protection -and also being used by management.
Being told to get on in Derry when the cause was lost and the game in a league against Galway one time, when his hand was strapped up and he was sent in as a last, desperate gamble. In one case he felt he should have started the game and in the other he was in pain when he shouldn't have been sprung off the bench either.
During the early stages of the 2006 run, he took a lot of abuse from players and fans for sticking to Mickey Moran's instructions.
All in all, he seems to have brooded a lot.
Other than the above, I haven't any knowledge of Ciaran or his future intentions and I'd be only speculating to go into the reasons.
If he is finished with Mayo, I'll wish him the very best; he owes us nothing. If Johnno has left him out of the plans or didn't go far enough to entice him back, I'm sure he is full sure of the potential backlash. I'll wish both the very best and hope there is no animosity between them.
Different class...and a lovely fella too!!
Jaysus, an awful lot of BS written here.
McDonald - always one of his biggest fans - for the glamour and the unexpected - but not as a dependable leader like a Joyce or a Canavan. Of course it is very sad if he has played his last game for Mayo, but surely we need to be moving on and building from youth. It is really a young mans game and it is becommintg more and more difficult to have the fitness levels at 30, never mind 33. Ideally we would see him in the panel, but I dont Ciaran would do the sub thing.
Always thought there is a bit of a thing in Mayo to make heros of players often before it was earned and often as young as minors - not any particular player, but in general. Only served to give many a fan and player false illusions of greatnedd. Just my opinions.
But Lads, its a joke the way some are going on about O'Mahony - jaysus give the man a chance. Someone said he took over AI finalists lastyear - are you having a laugh??? We were humiliated in 2006 - we were lucky anyone wanted to tog out last year at all!!!
Looking back no one expected us to get to the 04 and 06 finals - now it is clear we were not prepared. Think we now need to build properly so that we have a team capable of making a realistic and sustainable push for honors in a year or so
Quote from: Maradona on April 28, 2008, 06:54:39 PM
Jaysus, an awful lot of BS written here.
McDonald - always one of his biggest fans - for the glamour and the unexpected - but not as a dependable leader like a Joyce or a Canavan. Of course it is very sad if he has played his last game for Mayo, but surely we need to be moving on and building from youth. It is really a young mans game and it is becommintg more and more difficult to have the fitness levels at 30, never mind 33. Ideally we would see him in the panel, but I dont Ciaran would do the sub thing.
Always thought there is a bit of a thing in Mayo to make heros of players often before it was earned and often as young as minors - not any particular player, but in general. Only served to give many a fan and player false illusions of greatnedd. Just my opinions.
But Lads, its a joke the way some are going on about O'Mahony - jaysus give the man a chance. Someone said he took over AI finalists lastyear - are you having a laugh??? We were humiliated in 2006 - we were lucky anyone wanted to tog out last year at all!!!
Looking back no one expected us to get to the 04 and 06 finals - now it is clear we were not prepared. Think we now need to build properly so that we have a team capable of making a realistic and sustainable push for honors in a year or so
[/b]
We
were humiliated in Sept 2006 but we were AI finalists also. Of course this could have been avoided if we had lost earlier. Would you have been happy with that. I would nt. I think a team should go as far as it can in any given year. Our downfall in final was as much due to tactical niavity [I explained this in an earlier post] as lack of quality. Anyway last year s defeat in Celtic Park was as humiliating but it was nt live on tv and only a hardcore Mayo crowd there, so that was alright so.
We might not have been prepared in finals in 04 or 06 but we were there and we should have built on the experiences rather than shoot those who were seen to be mostly responsible for final day shortcomings. And is there a better way to prepare for an All Ireland final than to have been there before. What do you mean by build properly exactly? How can we make a
realistic and sustainable push for honours and what do you mean by that exactly and how would you ensure that if we got to another final against Kerry the same thing would nt happen? Of course if we dont get there there ll be no humiliation. So if current Management never get to a final and so wont be humiliated is that something we should be grateful for, better than Maughan and Moran? Will not getting beat on the big day in the next 3 years qualify as a
realistic and sustainable push? I would nt think so but you tell me? Not sure i understand how this works as you understand it?
Apart from maybe one poster nobody on here is giving O Mahoney a hard time. Questioning a few things maybe but that is not slagging off or having a go. His supporters will have to acccept that he is going to be criticised same as those went before him. MM only got one year and was not given the opportunity to rebuild. The team he brought to AI in 2006 were lads he never worked with before. Maybe he could have tweaked a few things if he stayed on and got closer. Fellas played for him that have not produced the same form since. I ll give you Harte and Dillon for two. Now it might be injury or form in they re case. Make of it what you will. Anyway it s unlikely anything we or anybody else have is capable of beating Kerry.
This is just my opinion but I m not a great believer in 2,3 or 5 year building plans. You can not plan to win something in X numberof years imho. Every year and every championship match has to be played on its own merits. You get the best players on the pitch available each year and only form, not age, is the criteria. That is the best way to build. You can not pick this years team leaving out lads that you think might be too old when we re going to win the AI in 3 years time. There are too many variables for that kind of rebuilding to work. Injuries, loss of form, Aussie rules, drink, pregnancies, and another teams emerging better tend to spoil all plans. I heard of a club chairman that has drawn up a 5 year plan to win a club all Ireland. They have nt won a county in nearly 40 years and judging by the way they re goin they wont win a south county cup within the 5 years. Silly stuff. Play each year on its own merits and the breakthrough is as likely to happen due to others' inadequacies and/or misfortune as your own brilliance. Anybody who has ever managed teams will tell you that. The year that you think you re great somebody is better, and you can often win with a team you did nt really think were that special but neither was anybody else that year. Whatever people might think of Clive Woodward and Rugby Union he got 1 thing right. He stuck with players like Neil Back and Jason Leonard for World Cup 2003 when the conventional wisdom was they would be too old and he should have been breaking in new blood. There s a simple rule in team sports. Don t replace a player until you re sure you have better to replace him with.
Moysider I don't think anybody has put any kind of time-frame on this transition.
What really has to be done is concentrate on developing the talent that is coming through while each year pushing to go as far as possible.
For the first time in a long time there is a lot of realism in Mayo football. I think it is frustrating but people are willing to be patient. The manager is not being hounded but is open to constructive criticism. Last year was such a disaster that he has to win back faith this year. He is still the best man for the job but any talk of an All Ireland is way off the mark until we have two top-class forwards who will shine on the big days. I would have hoped that Hanley and Campbell could grow into those roles but............
Moysider I think you are expecting way to much too soon. The fact is that we dont have the players at the moment to win an All-Ireland. End of story. That is nobody's fault. To think anything else, like we can make a serious challenge this yeur, you are just dreaming.
The quality is not there up front. We only have (at the most) two top class forwards. We still are in major trouble in our full back line and IMO our midfield is over rated. I fail to see where you think Mayo can win an All-Ireland. We would be lucky to be in the top 5 or 6 best teams in the country.
Im with Maradona when he talks about the BS and naivety written here. In 2004 and 2006 we were not good enough. Just because we made it to the final does not mean that man-for-man we were the second best team in the country.
Moysider,
you hit the nail on the head.
Another thing, Mayo need to be more physical against the big boys, not like the dubs are but more like tyrone and kerry.
Quote from: Maradona on April 28, 2008, 06:54:39 PM
Jaysus, an awful lot of BS written here.
McDonald - always one of his biggest fans - for the glamour and the unexpected - but not as a dependable leader like a Joyce or a Canavan. Of course it is very sad if he has played his last game for Mayo, but surely we need to be moving on and building from youth. It is really a young mans game and it is becommintg more and more difficult to have the fitness levels at 30, never mind 33. Ideally we would see him in the panel, but I dont Ciaran would do the sub thing.
ok went to see Cross v's Ballaghadreen on sunday and firstly must admit that i got the facts about mc scoring wrong he only scored nine points and he was on fire 4 of his scores coming from play as good as any that he has scored during his carreer. No sign on an injury and to tell you the truth he looked like one of the fittest on the pitch, there is not a pick on him he is like a butchers greyhound anyway i knew this all along as i have seen him training with the club since january so there appears to be no problem with the back. Just going on your post there maradona you say thats its a young mans game fair enough but you also say that mc is not a leader ( which i don't agree with by the way but everyone is entitled to their opinion) like canavan or joye well just wondering what age was canavan when he scored the goal against Kerry in 2004 33 i think he was not a young man but a player with loads of experience who was not discarded by the manager because no matter what spin o' mahony puts on it thats what he has done he has discarded a player of immense talent and having seen his display on sunday he has to be at least the 10th or 11th best forward in the county :P , imagine if mickey harte had ommitted canavan fron his panel in 2004 there would have been uproar.
Now as i said before i'm glad that Mc isn't on the panel it suits Cross better however that does not hide the fact that someone who has given their all for mayo has been treated shoddily in my opinion by management not just this year with the squad but also last year, hopefully he might one day let us know his side of the story but if mc still thought he had something to offer mayo ( and judging by the way he played on sunday he still does) the way he has been treated by management is a disgrace ( am i allowed to say this about the great john o' )
There were 5 senior players on the panel last year who were involved since 1996-1997 , 2 of them are on the panel 2 have retired and 1 player who management have decided is not good enough for a place in the squad.
Moysiders last sentence makes sense don't replace a player till you have a better one to replace him have we a better forward than Mc in the county well according to John o we have 12
Deel - do you know if he had made himself available for Mayo or has he told JOM he's not interested? If he didn't tell JOM that he's not interested, did he attend any of the training matches that were held?
McDonald doesn't make cut
Mayo to carry on without Crossmolina forward
Daniel Carey
MAYO have named a 29-man panel for the forthcoming championship which includes veteran defender James Nallen, but not his Crossmolina club-mate Ciaran McDonald.
The apparent end of the 33-year-old attacker's inter-county career was the major talking point at club matches over the weekend, as the man himself finished as leading scorer in the Deel Rovers' victory over Ballaghaderren on Sunday.
McDonald has not started a game for Mayo since the All-Ireland final defeat of 2006, though he did make cameo appearances against Galway and Derry during an injury-plagued 2007.
"Ciaran McDonald was invited to join us for some ... games [earlier this year] and didn't take up the offer," John O'Mahony told The Mayo News. "I admire very much Ciaran's input over the years, and he has been one of Mayo's greatest servants. But all we can do is invite people to participate."
Nallen did not play in any of Mayo's league matches but did feature in a trial match in Ballinrobe last month. After an 'extended break', the college lecturer is back in harness for the summer, and O'Mahony feels he'll be a 'great influence' on his colleagues.
"We have a big changeover in the squad, a lot of young players in there, and I think there's no one more respected for what they have done and can still do – not just on the playing field but in the sense of an influence and advice for young players," he said.
Chris Barrett looks certain to miss the championship with a groin problem and has not been named in the squad.
The Belmullet clubman has sustained an osteo-pubis injury, similar to that which kept Ballina's Ger Cafferkey sidelined for 10 months. That makes the Mayo U-21 captain's participation in the senior competition most unlikely.
"It could be fairly long-term," O'Mahony confirmed. "Having said that, we've kept the door open, in case there's any dramatic improvement in the next few weeks.
"But I suppose the fact that we didn't name him, we feel on medical advice that it's not going to happen. As I would see it, Chris Barrett [has] a long career ahead of him for Mayo, and we don't want to put that at risk."
Others who have been omitted from the final squad include Crossmolina's Brian Benson, Burrishoole's Conor Moran, Enda Varley of Garrymore and Achill's Colm Cafferkey.
Quote from: Davitt Man on April 29, 2008, 11:18:23 AM
McDonald doesn't make cut
Mayo to carry on without Crossmolina forward
Daniel Carey
MAYO have named a 29-man panel for the forthcoming championship which includes veteran defender James Nallen, but not his Crossmolina club-mate Ciaran McDonald.
The apparent end of the 33-year-old attacker's inter-county career was the major talking point at club matches over the weekend, as the man himself finished as leading scorer in the Deel Rovers' victory over Ballaghaderren on Sunday.
McDonald has not started a game for Mayo since the All-Ireland final defeat of 2006, though he did make cameo appearances against Galway and Derry during an injury-plagued 2007.
"Ciaran McDonald was invited to join us for some ... games [earlier this year] and didn't take up the offer," John O'Mahony told The Mayo News. "I admire very much Ciaran's input over the years, and he has been one of Mayo's greatest servants. But all we can do is invite people to participate."Nallen did not play in any of Mayo's league matches but did feature in a trial match in Ballinrobe last month. After an 'extended break', the college lecturer is back in harness for the summer, and O'Mahony feels he'll be a 'great influence' on his colleagues.
"We have a big changeover in the squad, a lot of young players in there, and I think there's no one more respected for what they have done and can still do – not just on the playing field but in the sense of an influence and advice for young players," he said.
Chris Barrett looks certain to miss the championship with a groin problem and has not been named in the squad.
The Belmullet clubman has sustained an osteo-pubis injury, similar to that which kept Ballina's Ger Cafferkey sidelined for 10 months. That makes the Mayo U-21 captain's participation in the senior competition most unlikely.
"It could be fairly long-term," O'Mahony confirmed. "Having said that, we've kept the door open, in case there's any dramatic improvement in the next few weeks.
"But I suppose the fact that we didn't name him, we feel on medical advice that it's not going to happen. As I would see it, Chris Barrett [has] a long career ahead of him for Mayo, and we don't want to put that at risk."
Others who have been omitted from the final squad include Crossmolina's Brian Benson, Burrishoole's Conor Moran, Enda Varley of Garrymore and Achill's Colm Cafferkey.
Well there you are - good luck to him in his retirement but spare me any more conversations about how well he is playing at club level, he has made his decision not to be involved, time to let those that are involved get on with things without having a will he or won't he sideshow continuing on throughout the build up to, and during the championship.
QuoteMcDonald doesn't make cut
Mayo to carry on without Crossmolina forward
Daniel Carey
MAYO have named a 29-man panel for the forthcoming championship which includes veteran defender James Nallen, but not his Crossmolina club-mate Ciaran McDonald.
The apparent end of the 33-year-old attacker's inter-county career was the major talking point at club matches over the weekend, as the man himself finished as leading scorer in the Deel Rovers' victory over Ballaghaderren on Sunday.
McDonald has not started a game for Mayo since the All-Ireland final defeat of 2006, though he did make cameo appearances against Galway and Derry during an injury-plagued 2007.
"Ciaran McDonald was invited to join us for some ... games [earlier this year] and didn't take up the offer," John O'Mahony told The Mayo News. "I admire very much Ciaran's input over the years, and he has been one of Mayo's greatest servants. But all we can do is invite people to participate."Nallen did not play in any of Mayo's league matches but did feature in a trial match in Ballinrobe last month. After an 'extended break', the college lecturer is back in harness for the summer, and O'Mahony feels he'll be a 'great influence' on his colleagues.
"We have a big changeover in the squad, a lot of young players in there, and I think there's no one more respected for what they have done and can still do – not just on the playing field but in the sense of an influence and advice for young players," he said.
Chris Barrett looks certain to miss the championship with a groin problem and has not been named in the squad.
The Belmullet clubman has sustained an osteo-pubis injury, similar to that which kept Ballina's Ger Cafferkey sidelined for 10 months. That makes the Mayo U-21 captain's participation in the senior competition most unlikely.
"It could be fairly long-term," O'Mahony confirmed. "Having said that, we've kept the door open, in case there's any dramatic improvement in the next few weeks.
"But I suppose the fact that we didn't name him, we feel on medical advice that it's not going to happen. As I would see it, Chris Barrett [has] a long career ahead of him for Mayo, and we don't want to put that at risk."
Others who have been omitted from the final squad include Crossmolina's Brian Benson, Burrishoole's Conor Moran, Enda Varley of Garrymore and Achill's Colm Cafferkey.
Well there you are - good luck to him in his retirement but spare me any more conversations about how well he is playing at club level, he has made his decision not to be involved, time to let those that are involved get on with things without having a will he or won't he sideshow continuing on throughout the build up to, and during the championship.
Have to agree with Stephenite. I've held off on commenting on this saga until there were some quotes from at least 1 of the parties involved.
So it seems Ciaran has decided to call an end to his inter-county career. He is, and has been for 10 years, a legend of Mayo GAA. The most naturally gifted and exciting player I've ever watched in the Green and Red.
I wish him all the best in his remaining club career and whatever he does after that. He has given me some fantastic memories:
- his AI performances for Cross, especially their second appearance (03 I think)
- the day he nearly got the hat-trick against Galway in 98
- the connacht semi against Galway in 04 when we came from 6 points down to win by 6. He hit an outside of the boot wonder score and threw both arms into the air, we knew we had it then
- the 04 quarter-final against Tyrone
- his 2 huge huge points in the 04 AIF
- and of course, the greatest match I've ever attended, the 06 semi-final, I still get a tingle down my back when I think of that whole day, and Supermac's winning point in particular.
But he has retired now, and there shouldn't be any more speculation about him coming back. It's time to enjoy the memories, and start moving on to allow the current panel concentrate on getting the most out of themselves this summer.
Quote from: Davitt Man on April 29, 2008, 11:18:23 AM
McDonald doesn't make cut
Mayo to carry on without Crossmolina forward
...
"Ciaran McDonald was invited to join us for some ... games [earlier this year] and didn't take up the offer," John O'Mahony told The Mayo News. "I admire very much Ciaran's input over the years, and he has been one of Mayo's greatest servants. But all we can do is invite people to participate."
Quote from: rosnarun on April 24, 2008, 12:18:25 PM
Ciaran Was availible for selection.
Quote from: rosnarun on April 25, 2008, 02:15:35 PM
As regards to his return . I know for a fact he is fully willing to return but has NOT been invited back to training.
...JOM get down off his high horse.
Ros you are full of sh!t as usual ::)
I've also held off on commenting on this until there was some definite information.
The above extract proves that McD was asked back.
Quote from: AbbeySider on April 29, 2008, 09:38:56 AM
Moysider I think you are expecting way to much too soon. The fact is that we dont have the players at the moment to win an All-Ireland. End of story. That is nobody's fault. To think anything else, like we can make a serious challenge this yeur, you are just dreaming.
The quality is not there up front. We only have (at the most) two top class forwards. We still are in major trouble in our full back line and IMO our midfield is over rated. I fail to see where you think Mayo can win an All-Ireland. We would be lucky to be in the top 5 or 6 best teams in the country.
Im with Maradona when he talks about the BS and naivety written here. In 2004 and 2006 we were not good enough. Just because we made it to the final does not mean that man-for-man we were the second best team in the country.
Never mentioned winning an All Ireland. All i expect is to be as competitive as possible and get our best team out each year and see what happens instead of talking about longterm rebuilding rebuilding programmes. I suggest you read the piece again and not be putting words into my mouth.
Quote from: moysider on April 29, 2008, 12:36:49 PM
Never mentioned winning an All Ireland. All i expect is to be as competitive as possible and get our best team out each year and see what happens instead of talking about longterm rebuilding rebuilding programmes.
That sounds great... in Theory. And its what we have always done, only to fall short on All-Ireland final day.
Why not give younger players a chance to develop and give a new younger team a chance to settle?
Its not going to happen this year or the next but our day will come when the current players and newer additions mature.
We cant be reverting back to, and depending on older players.
A new fresh approach is being taken with a younger panel that needs time.
Moysider,
You say we got hammered in 06 as much due to tactical naviety as much as quality, as a few other counties posters have commented on us mayo lads that is delusional. If you went man on man against the kerry team they would win the vast majority of encounters. The least we should expect is to be competitive but we need to be realistic as to our ambitions. Are you saying if we had JOM or whoever we would have beaten kerry that year?
Quote from: ludermor on April 29, 2008, 12:51:47 PM
Moysider,
You say we got hammered in 06 as much due to tactical naviety as much as quality, as a few other counties posters have commented on us mayo lads that is delusional. If you went man on man against the kerry team they would win the vast majority of encounters. The least we should expect is to be competitive but we need to be realistic as to our ambitions. Are you saying if we had JOM or whoever we would have beaten kerry that year?
Other counties dont go man on man when they play Kerry. They use tactics like blanket defence and sweepers and sometimes beat them like Tyrone did in 05. Maybe you dont want to win that way but I could nt care less as long as we won. I ve already said I dont believe we would have won anyway but we would nt have been blown away in first 10 and would have given us a chance to settle into the game. Of course most mayo people are too proud to contemplate anything 'negative' tactically. Instead they want to try to build a team for the future that will go man for man with Kerry. They re the ones that are delusional.
Agree we should go all out to win the AI every year, I think that is what we do, hope so anyway.
Reality is that the 04/06 generation of players did not produce and we really have to rebuild. Think we are good enough to win Connaught this year and who knows from there, but there are a lot of young players being bedded into very key positions and they will need time to prove they are up to it. Biggest worry is that we are trying to fit round pegs into square holes all over the pitch (Corner backs / full back / half forwards / full forward to some extent) and some of these players are not exceptional in their natural positions. We have absolutely nothing coming through in the forward division which is a great worry as it has always been our downfall.
Agree that we have been niave to go 'man against man' v Kerry - but should we not have learned that in 04? How many times do we have to get humiliated before we learn that? However if we had gone the 'Tyrone' route, did we have the type of player who could do that? First of all we are not disciplined enough. look back at a video of 06 and its so evident that players were not playing to unified plan, niave plan or not. In fairness to the tyrone model, they were united in everything they did and everyone pitched in from start to finish. Blame management or whatever, but too many times over the years we were left guessing over players well into the year, and to me that is not the way to properly prepare for the championship. Dont get me wrong, not blaming individuals, but if we are serious as a county we have to get serious.
While on the subject of Tyrone - was in healy park a few weeks ago - very impressed by the facilities, pre-match effort, atmosphere, etc - really felt like I was at an event. Hope our Co Board took note - is there a worse county ground than McHale to go to these days?
Lads, there are a few things we have to keep in mind about Mayo football.
We fans are a very hard lot to satisfy!
We want an AI every year and feel disappointed if we only go close. There is no pressure like this put on any other manager or panel. And if there is pressure is coming form the fans, the county board seem to be a hard lot to get on with also.
Think of every manager back to Johnno and the 89’ final: Did a single one of them leave the scene without bad feelings of some sort?
I think it was brave or foolhardy of Johnno to take on the job for a second spell; already there is a backlash growing. It would appear that Ciaran has left of his own free will. Good luck to him if he did; that’s his decision.
Whatever the reason, O’Mahony knows he will blamed by many if we don’t win an A1 this year.
O’M did say he was in for a three year haul and I don’t seem him extending his term beyond that. I hope we all now row in behind him and his team and urge them on to go as far as they can this year. Speculation will always be a fact of life in Mayo football circles but it is time to put this controversy to bed and move on.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 29, 2008, 03:32:03 PM
Lads, there are a few things we have to keep in mind about Mayo football.
We fans are a very hard lot to satisfy!
We want an AI every year and feel disappointed if we only go close. There is no pressure like this put on any other manager or panel. And if there is pressure is coming form the fans, the county board seem to be a hard lot to get on with also.
Think of every manager back to Johnno and the 89' final: Did a single one of them leave the scene without bad feelings of some sort?
I think it was brave or foolhardy of Johnno to take on the job for a second spell; already there is a backlash growing. It would appear that Ciaran has left of his own free will. Good luck to him if he did; that's his decision.
Whatever the reason, O'Mahony knows he will blamed by many if we don't win an A1 this year.
O'M did say he was in for a three year haul and I don't seem him extending his term beyond that. I hope we all now row in behind him and his team and urge them on to go as far as they can this year. Speculation will always be a fact of life in Mayo football circles but it is time to put this controversy to bed and move on.
Agree Lar but you know as well as I do that it wont happen that way. Everybody knows that Mac would never do what DB did and announce his retirement and get the 2 page Western spread. And as long as he says nothing there will be speculation from some fans about a possible comeback as long as we re alive in the championship. Other people I talked about him being not in the panel we re not too bothered. 'No harm' was one remark I remember. Realistically if he were to be involved he should have been involved a couple of months ago in some way or other. I have never agreed with his late returns to the panel. Compare that to Padraig Joyce s early appearance every year and how Galway have a settled team most years for the league rounds. On the other hand Mac is such a good player it ll be always tempting to have him back - late or not. As I said, management would have preferred a quick kill on this with an announcement of retirement but that s not going to happen and its bound to get messy and drag on for this summer at least. The fact that the best attacking talent we ve produced since Mac came on the scene a decade and a half ago[ and the best we re likely to see for some time] has gone to Aussie rules makes it more difficult for some fans to accept that Mac is not going to be there either anymore.
Just in response to moysider's post regarding 'reasonable and sustainable pushes'. He is damn right you know. I wasn't in Celtic Park last year, had to make a few bob. Anyway, I felt that we had gone backwards last year, getting hammered by Galway live on RTE and hammered by Derry again. I often wonder do the likes of Leitrim and Sligo and other counties even Ros enjoy watching other counties getting to AIFs? I doubt it somehow. However, our record in finals is shocking and I for one am sick of getting the piss taken out of me by fellas from Meath, Kilkenny, Kerry etc. teams who have won AIFs. No harm in expecting to win every game. Certainly I always think that we will happen to emerge on the winning side even if it is a second before the match that I come around to thinking that way. I don't see any harm in it either. In fact, I wouldn't go to championship games if I thought any different.
(PS, that's not the reason I wasn't in Celtic Park last year, despite my worries on here and I certainly didn't expect Mayo to be hammered by 10 points that day...)
Quote from: moysider on April 29, 2008, 01:05:36 PM
Quote from: ludermor on April 29, 2008, 12:51:47 PM
Moysider,
You say we got hammered in 06 as much due to tactical naviety as much as quality, as a few other counties posters have commented on us mayo lads that is delusional. If you went man on man against the kerry team they would win the vast majority of encounters. The least we should expect is to be competitive but we need to be realistic as to our ambitions. Are you saying if we had JOM or whoever we would have beaten kerry that year?
Other counties dont go man on man when they play Kerry. They use tactics like blanket defence and sweepers and sometimes beat them like Tyrone did in 05. Maybe you dont want to win that way but I could nt care less as long as we won. I ve already said I dont believe we would have won anyway but we would nt have been blown away in first 10 and would have given us a chance to settle into the game. Of course most mayo people are too proud to contemplate anything 'negative' tactically. Instead they want to try to build a team for the future that will go man for man with Kerry. They re the ones that are delusional.
i didnt mean mark man on man i meant compare each team man to man and you will see they were/are far superior. A bit of realism is no harm. Where is gods name did anyone mention anything about mayo not wanting to win ugly? You have lost the run of yourself and are arguing with yourself!
Quote from: ludermor on April 29, 2008, 08:56:41 PM
Quote from: moysider on April 29, 2008, 01:05:36 PM
Quote from: ludermor on April 29, 2008, 12:51:47 PM
Moysider,
You say we got hammered in 06 as much due to tactical naviety as much as quality, as a few other counties posters have commented on us mayo lads that is delusional. If you went man on man against the kerry team they would win the vast majority of encounters. The least we should expect is to be competitive but we need to be realistic as to our ambitions. Are you saying if we had JOM or whoever we would have beaten kerry that year?
Other counties dont go man on man when they play Kerry. They use tactics like blanket defence and sweepers and sometimes beat them like Tyrone did in 05. Maybe you dont want to win that way but I could nt care less as long as we won. I ve already said I dont believe we would have won anyway but we would nt have been blown away in first 10 and would have given us a chance to settle into the game. Of course most mayo people are too proud to contemplate anything 'negative' tactically. Instead they want to try to build a team for the future that will go man for man with Kerry. They re the ones that are delusional.
i didnt mean mark man on man i meant compare each team man to man and you will see they were/are far superior. A bit of realism is no harm. Where is gods name did anyone mention anything about mayo not wanting to win ugly? You have lost the run of yourself and are arguing with yourself!
Tyrone in 2005 would have compared unfavourably to Kerry in the majority of positions in most people s estimation before the AI final of that year. Tyrone were struggling at full back and at midfield but managed to win through inspiration, work ethic, tactical nous and maybe a bit of the darker arts thrown in as well. That was realism. And yes lots of Mayo people dont want to win ugly. Example. Before the appointment of M. Moran a committee was established to find a new manager. County Board PJ McGrath was reported in local papers as saying that the incoming manager should be instructed as to the style of football mayo fans expected to see from Mayo teams. Now PJ was nt just washed in off the side of the road. An All Ireland ref.a former president of Connacht Council if memory serves me correctly his views hold some clout. They are not to be taken lightly and you can be sure he was voicing concerns that were brought to his attention by others too. I assume he wanted the traditional style of Mayo- off the cuff, free flowing ,open, skillful football - to continue and any 'negative, stuff would be frowned upon. Board Chairman Paddy Naughton put him in his place and said that it was winning football that counts. But there is still a huge number of Mayo fans who want to play and win pretty.
From todays Indo/Rag :
By Exclusive
Wednesday April 30 2008
CIARAN McDonald's days in a Mayo jersey are almost certainly at an end but he insists that it's not his choice and that he is deeply disappointed with what has unfolded in recent months.
He is also unhappy with the manner the matter has been handled by John O'Mahony, with whom he claims he has had only one conversation in over five months.
"If John O'Mahony doesn't want me on the Mayo panel let him tell me to my face. If he said to me 'Ciaran, I'm going with younger lads this year' I'd be disappointed but I'd put out my hand to him and say that's fine. If he thinks I'm not good enough anymore, let him come out and say it.
"I would have loved to play with Mayo again this year but obviously he doesn't want me which is fair enough but I don't want Mayo people to think that I wouldn't play for him because it's not true. Playing for Mayo meant an awful lot to me," he said.
Gifted
One of the most naturally gifted forwards of his generation, McDonald has always avoided interviews in a career where he preferred to express himself through his exquisite talents but decided to break his silence on what looks like the end of his illustrious inter-county career.
Speaking exclusively to the Irish Independent, he said it was important to him that Mayo people understood his position.
"I don't want to be walking down the street later on and having lads coming up to saying 'what sort of Mayoman are you when you won't even play for your county'. It's the management's decision that I'm not there and people should know that," he said.
He revealed that he had a phone conversation with O'Mahony some weeks ago during which they agreed to meet up to discuss his situation. However, the meeting didn't materialise and some time later, he received a text inviting him to a trial game on a Tuesday night.
"I was working in Dublin at the time and couldn't make it and anyway I thought it very strange that after playing for Mayo for so long the management would want to see me in a trial game. I have always looked after myself and am in good shape and playing decent football with my club so I would have thought the management would make up their minds on that rather than on a trial game where I'd be playing with a lot of lads for the first time."
McDonald was surprised when he started receiving texts last week from people who thought he had retired.
"They had heard that my back was supposed to be bothering me and that I had decided to retire. I don't know where that came from but it wasn't true.
"My back is okay because I got it sorted out myself and there was never any question of me walking out on Mayo for as long as they wanted me. There were also stories about how the panel had to be finalised so that the players' grants scheme could be sorted out.
"That had nothing to do with me. I have played for Mayo for 15 years and never claimed a penny expenses. And if I played this year, I couldn't care less about whether or not I got grant money.
"For me, it was all about playing for Mayo and I still feel that I can play at county level. I'm playing away for my club and would feel quite confident about stepping back with the county panel too."
His 2007 season was ravaged by injury and while he came on as a sub against Galway in the Connacht championship, he couldn't do himself justice after missing so much action earlier on. However, the back injury has cleared up but it still looks as if his county days are over.
"It's not my choice. At no stage was there an invite onto the panel. That's the truth of the matter. I haven't retired but nobody told me I wasn't wanted back either and that's what I find disappointing.
"It's important to me that the Mayo public know that."
McDonald, who will be 33 this year, made his debut 15 years ago and developed into one of the star acts of Gaelic football.
His blonde hair made him a readily identifiable figure, as did his elegant kicking, his measured style and his capacity to craft scores from the most unlikely angles.
He played in five All-Ireland finals (1996 draw and replay, 1997-2004-2006) but ended up on four losing sides. However, he did win an All-Ireland medal with his club, Crossmolina in 2001. He won a Vodafone All Star award in 2004.
My own take on this is WOW!!
However, my own opinion is that while O'Mahoney has played this one quite badly - he has done nothing wrong per se. There was an invite to a trial game sent out via SMS which is the standard mode of communication for most inter county and club teams.
The comment that strikes me most however is this
Quote from: stephenite on April 30, 2008, 06:17:00 AM
and anyway I thought it very strange that after playing for Mayo for so long the management would want to see me in a trial game. I have always looked after myself and am in good shape and playing decent football with my club so I would have thought the management would make up their minds on that rather than on a trial game where I'd be playing with a lot of lads for the first time."
I've already said that Mac should not be picked on second hand reports and past performances. I would ask Ciaran one question, why is it that 2 time All Star James Nallen who has played for as long as you (in fact longer if you take into account the actual amount of games played) with Mayo did not find it strange that management would request to see his form in a trial game. James too has always looked after himself and is always in good shape, and playing decent football with the club.
I feel it is incumbent on the management to ensure that every last person on the 30 man panel has the requisite fitness at the level they will be competing at.
Fair enough, if it was held mid week and the man was working away, but I do not doubt that if Ciaran Mac called John O'Mahoney and explained his predicament another trial game would be arranged to suit him, was this done?
Anyway - maybe they can arrange one now, he wants to play and he's injury free - he should be playing for Mayo. Let them organise Ciaran to participate in a trial/challenge game as soon as he can get himself free from work and get him back on the panel.
O'Mahoney would need to win the All Ireland without him to get re-elected at this stage, this'll f**k him up big time come next election I reckon :P
Jesus just got the paper . Ye john o has handled it badly however i think the fact remains that he does not want mc there however he knew this would affect him down the road if he was seen to drop mc so he put the onus on mc by going to the press a few weeks ago saying that he was going to invite him to a trial game say if mc did go john o could say if was not fit so he was in a win win situation . Ciaran s a smart guy so he knew that one phone call in 5 months meant he was not in their plans . John o should have been a man and just said mc is dropped. I'd say he is shocked that mc did an interview the thing is that if he really wanted mc there he could have handled it better however its obvious if does not . Thats definately the end of mc s career
So was John O'Mahoney in more contact with James Nallen than he was with Ciaran McDonald over the last 5 months? I don't buy that to be honest
I buy it, macdonald is not telling any lie in this, he was dead right to come out and say this. I am a fan of jom but really he will be hated for this unless Sam arrives.
Macdonald was right, trial game? who needs a trial game, certainly not macdonald.
This really finishes it for Ciaran, he was very exciting to watch and he was right to hit back, the 2 will not be talking again after this.
Sad for Mayo football, both men had the good of Mayo in heart.
My point was that I'm sure Johnno was in touch with Ciaran as much as he was in contact with James Nallen or anyone else who had yet to return to the squad,I never once intimated that Ciaran McDonlad was teliing a lie.
This notion of Ciaran Mc not needing a trial game is crazy talk IMO. He's 33 years of age and the gap between scoring points at club level and inter county is a wide one, his last foray into inter county football was indifferent to say the least (albeit he was carrying an injury) so it's been September 2006 since he last played any meaningful full games at Inter county level - that's too long a gap for any man to be allowed back into a team without proving himself against players at that level.
JOM was right to ask him and anyone else inetersted in playing to attend trial games - and he still can attend a trial game. He said he wants to play for Mayo this year - I think this interview was a great move by McD, he's put the gun to O'Mahony's head now and he has to give Ciaran the opportunity to prove himself for a place on the panel this year
Maybe I am a bit old fashioned but I find the idea of communicating with senior players like Nallen and McDonald by SMS very unedifying. I woud have thought that over the past couple of months O'Mahony would have either met the senior players or spoken to them by phone to find out if they were available or to tell them straight out that he did not see them as part of his plans. These players deserve a degree of respect. It would have been good manners (and good politics) to speak with them.
I would love to see Mc Donald get an ai medal alebeit after Tyrone went out.
Quote from: Tatler Jack on April 30, 2008, 08:45:46 AM
Maybe I am a bit old fashioned but I find the idea of communicating with senior players like Nallen and McDonald by SMS very unedifying. I woud have thought that over the past couple of months O'Mahony would have either met the senior players or spoken to them by phone to find out if they were available or to tell them straight out that he did not see them as part of his plans. These players deserve a degree of respect. It would have been good manners (and good politics) to speak with them.
I would agree with you TJ - but from talking to those involved over the last few years under varuous IC managers this appears to be the preferred mode of communication. I'm also wondering that if Johnno himself was too busy could he not have sent someone else to meet them, Tommy and Kieran Gallagher are well able to meet up and tlak on behalf of the management team. If I'm wrong and Jimmy Nallen was given a more courteous approach than I take back what was said above, but I can't see why he would treat lads differently, especially ones he needed more than others.
Onus is on jom?
There is no answer here,he loses face if he brings him back to play and if he doesn't he may be viewed as an idiot for leaving a player like this off the panel.
I hope they can work it out between them but I think once this trigger was pulled there is no going back.
Totally agree with you tatler jack . Dont think he has shown them much respect . However mc donald seems to resigned to the fact that he wont be playing for mayo judging by the first comment however he just wanted to let the mayo fans know his side of the story and john o probably did not factor this in no more than the rest of us
Ah lads this is going to be a disaster for Mayo, we won't see McDonald again and I can feel the anti O'Mahony vibe rising already.
I think a number of things have to be said.
O'Mahony clearly had no desire to bring McDonald back into the panel. He knew the risk of coming out and saying there would be no place for McD in terms of a public backlash. So he tried to play it cagey, send out a token text, say he had made contact and then presume McD wouldn't come out and say anything - the man hasn't given an interview in over four years like.
If he did want him back he would have done a lot more than make one phone call and one text message. We're not talking about a callow under 21 here - we're talking about one of the most experienced players in the squad. To invite him to a trial by SMS is an insult. Jesus a junior club player wouldn't respond to a text like that!
I take Stephenite's point that McDonald wasn't entitled to an automatic place on the squad. But if Johnno, who is famed to be such a good man manager as seen with Michael Donnellan and Kevin Walsh, wanted to see what McD was made of then he would have tried to coax him in, met him, explained the situation and got him in for a look. A text message speaks of a pure token jesture. If he got no response to the text then surely he should have rang him?
I was thinking over the last 24 hours whether McDonald being back in would be a good thing. He has a tendency to play his own game at times but a player of his talents is hard to ignore. But this blows all that out of the water. The McDonald issue is now very much a stick to beat O'Mahony with. I think it will be no coincidence if we see McD give one of his best ever seasons for the Deel Rovers.
I don't think its a case of playing politics either. The two seem to be poles apart, I think this definitely spells the end of McD's days for Mayo.
O'Mahony probably has his reasons for not picking him, looking to the future, not wanting younger lads to be dwarfed by McD's presence etc. I see his reasons for not coming out and admitting as much but I bet he wishes he did now.
Johnno due on MWR now to discuss the situation: http://www.midwestirishradio.com/index.php
Looking at it from an outsiders perspective, and as a huge admirer (not in a gay sense!) of McDonald's, I would say JOM has handled it badly.
In terms of CMcD not being around for the league, that's pretty standard practice in a lot of counties that the older players take the winter off the recharge the batteries - look at Daire O Se coming back overweight for Kerry, but see what kind of influence he has come July.
If I were CMcD and I were asked to play in a trial game, I'd be quite insulted - especially if your form could be seen playing for your club. McD doesn't strike me as the kind of fella to spend the winter on the piss either...so I can't imagine fitness is an issue.
JOM should really have been keeping in touch regularly with McD by phone, and if it were the case that he wanted to build for the future or change the pattern of play, to not have McD as the focal point, then he really should have had the decency to tell him straight out - all players start waning at some point, but most retire/are retired gracefully. The focus should be on Mayo's first game, but this albatross is going to be hanging around JOM's neck now imo..
Johnno asked did he agree to meet McD. O'Mahony said he had been in contact with McD more than any other footballer over the last 18 months.
Says about problems with getting into contact some days with McDonald because of his work. Saying that he doesn't want to get into too much detail.
Says "if you can't get in touch with a player with a call you might text them.
That may have happened in this case." Really on the back foot
John o on the radio now admited mc contacted by text seems stunned not denying anything mc said was incorrect
Jesus I'm surprised he's coming on here because he's not doing himself any favours.
Says there's nothing to rule out McD coming back in the future if injuries or form comes into it but doesn't want to give the impression that the panel could change next week.
JOM saying he has nothing but admiration for McD. Says any comments McD is fine but JOM's way of doing things is behind the scenes and not in public.
'We'll be watching this space as time goes on was his last word."
God, this story has really blown up since Mc's interview!
What McD has to say certainly throws a different light on it. In my opinion, neither JOM nor McD have handled the situation particularly well.
It seems JOM has decided that he doesn't have McD in his plans for this year. Certainly, if he saw him as a central part of his plans there would have been more contact than a single text and a single call. Then again, according to MidWest listeners, JOM said he has been in contact with McD more than any other player over the last 18 months....
I don't think there's any probem with JOM wanting to have a look at McD in a trial game. But sending a text asking him to come down from Dublin to be there on a Tues night wasn't the right way to approach it. Having said that, I'm sure if McD had rang JOM and explained that he couldn't make it, another time could have been arranged.
If you look at the example of James Nallen, he played a trial game and is now in the panel.
The situation now is that the whole thing is in the public domain, and that's going to increase the pressure further. McD obviously has lost a lot of respect for JOM at this stage, and who knows if he'd rejoin the panel now if asked.
JOM is really under the microscope now and has to deliver this year - otherwise he'll be the man who ended McDs career and delivered nothing for Mayo. That might be harsh, but it's how many will judge it.
Quote from: heffo on April 30, 2008, 09:18:52 AM
Looking at it from an outsiders perspective, and as a huge admirer (not in a gay sense!) of McDonald's, I would say JOM has handled it badly.
In terms of CMcD not being around for the league, that's pretty standard practice in a lot of counties that the older players take the winter off the recharge the batteries - look at Daire O Se coming back overweight for Kerry, but see what kind of influence he has come July.
If I were CMcD and I were asked to play in a trial game, I'd be quite insulted - especially if your form could be seen playing for your club. McD doesn't strike me as the kind of fella to spend the winter on the piss either...so I can't imagine fitness is an issue.
JOM should really have been keeping in touch regularly with McD by phone, and if it were the case that he wanted to build for the future or change the pattern of play, to not have McD as the focal point, then he really should have had the decency to tell him straight out - all players start waning at some point, but most retire/are retired gracefully. The focus should be on Mayo's first game, but this albatross is going to be hanging around JOM's neck now imo..
Your spot on with everything you said Heffo and as you said in your last paragraph he should have just told mc he was been dropped from the panel however john ' o is a shrewd operator and would be aware of the public backlash so now it looks like he sent Mc a text on a tuedsay asking him to attend a trial game ( didn't even have the decency to ring mc up poor in my opinion ) mc didn't attend therefore he could then say that mc was not interested in playing for the county. What he didn't figure nor us here would that Mc would respond through the media not his style.As i said before he could have handle it so much better if he really wanted him can't imagine him contacting Kevin Walsh by text in 1998 asking him to committ to the panel. I can't see mc been invited back no matter how he plays a o' mahony would loose face however as least for once we got mcs side of the story
Quote from: Tubberman on April 30, 2008, 09:43:49 AM
God, this story has really blown up since Mc's interview!
JOM said he has been in contact with McD more than any other player over the last 18 months....
Ye 18 months cover a long period of time however if he has only contacted Mc once by phone and once by text in the last 5 months thaths not a lot
Quote from: Tatler Jack on April 30, 2008, 08:45:46 AM
Maybe I am a bit old fashioned but I find the idea of communicating with senior players like Nallen and McDonald by SMS very unedifying. I woud have thought that over the past couple of months O'Mahony would have either met the senior players or spoken to them by phone to find out if they were available or to tell them straight out that he did not see them as part of his plans. These players deserve a degree of respect. It would have been good manners (and good politics) to speak with them.
Have to agree with you your comments Tatler, it is a bit unedifying to contact someone through text for a trial game, a phone call explaining the situation, whats expected, etc. Talk to the player on the phone or in person. This is all very messy. There's absolutely no reason that Ciaran Mc shouldn't have been automatically invited back on the panel, he has done enough over the years to deserve that.
JOM knew that Ciaran would ignore the text message.
However, given that he did ignore the invitation, McDonald hasnt got a leg to stand on. He was offered a trial game, but there's no way he'd play in a trial game. JOM has the right to perform his selection process in whatever way he wants - but its deliberate poor man management in an effort to force McDonald out.
Quote from: Hound on April 30, 2008, 10:00:48 AM
JOM knew that Ciaran would ignore the text message.
However, given that he did ignore the invitation, McDonald hasnt got a leg to stand on. He was offered a trial game, but there's no way he'd play in a trial game. JOM has the right to perform his selection process in whatever way he wants - but its deliberate poor man management in an effort to force McDonald out.
exactly hound
Must be just me - I'd be of the opinion that if a player wants to play the onus should be on him to stay in contact with the manager and let him know what his situation is. He's said in the media numerous times that Mac would be asked to play in a trial game - why didn't Mac contact him when he heard about. I reckon JOM got pissed off - sent him the text knowing he'd ignore it. It was deliberate bad man management, no doubt, but courtesy is a two way street.
have to disagree with you there stephenite, why should the player be in contact with the management fair enough if you were part of the managements plans but jesus what would the conversation be. how's it going john o' just wondering how your keeping haven't heard from you in a few months am i still part of your plans , the onus is on the management to let the players know whether you a player are part of their plans or not.
Ballagh' blown away by Mac-powered Cross'
Welcome Inn SFL - Division 1A - Round 4
Crossmolina 1-13 Ballaghaderreen 0-8
THE reigning league champions hosted their closest rivals from last year in what was the tie of the weekend in Crossmolina on Sunday afternoon. The close contest many predicted only lasted so long however, as Crossmolina strolled through the last twenty minutes of this game, after systematically dismantling and visibly deflating the Ballaghaderreen contingent.
With Ciaran McDonald putting in a performance that reminded Mayo fans of what they'll be missing this summer, Crossmolina looked unbeatable in periods, forcing the Ballaghaderreen men to chase shadows, and defending competently when asked. It was an assured performance with no shortage of attacking flair.
Ballaghaderreen did start brightly, full-forward Barry Regan forcing two saves from the Crossmolina stopper in the first two minutes, the rebound from the second fell into the hands of Andy Hanly who opened the scoring with an easy point. This was followed by a free from Regan to double their advantage.
McDonald opened his account in the sixth minute with a sweetly struck point from 30 yards. With Ballaghaderreen still looking dangerous, Joe Dillon should have given them a greater advantage but couldn't keep his shot down and instead registered a point. This proved to be a costly miss, as Crossmolina would never again let the game from their grasp and secured supremecy when Sean Kelly goaled after a good move involving Paul McGuinness and Cathal Carolan in the 12th minute.
Buoyed by this score, the hosts then provided four unanswered points, three for Ciaran McDonald between the 14th and 22nd minutes, and a good point from Joe Keane, after an exquisite pass from McDonald. Joe Dillon did pull one back when he curled over from the left, but any minirevival was put to bed instantly with two long range points from Gabriel Walsh. At the interval Crossmolina lead the visitors by 1-7 to 0-4.
Ballaghaderreen started the second half much the same as they started the first, by wasting a goal opportunity, this time Peter Kelly drove wide. McDonald punished some poor marking two minutes later when he pointed from the 45'. Barry Regan and Peter Kelly hit two points for the visitors in the 39th and 41st minutes before McDonald and Regan exchanged scores two minutes later.
A period of ten minutes passed by without a score, until McDonald stepped up to send home a spectacular long range effort from the sideline and six minutes from the end, substitute Michael Moyles pointed from the 21' to remove any doubt as to the result. Regan got one more consolation point for Ballaghaderreen before Joe Keane, Gerry O'Malley and Ciaran McDonald, with his eighth point of the match, sealed the result in Crossmolina's favour.
Liam Moffatt and his Crossmolina backroom team will be very pleased with the manner of this victory, as they were controlled, powerful and imaginative in attack. The scale of the victory also allowed some of the players that are maybe not yet match fit some much needed game minutes, such as James Nallen and Enda Lavelle.
Ballaghaderreen will have to improve their attacking play if they are to emulate last year's achievements – many times during this game they didn't seem to be comfortable on the ball and by the end were wholly disheartened by the entire experience.
SCORERS – Crossmolina: C McDonald 0-8 (4f), S Kelly 1-0, G Walsh and J Keane 0-2 each, M Moyles 0-1.
Ballaghaderreen: B Regan 0-4 (3f), J Dillon 0-2, A Hanly and P Kelly 0-1 each.
CROSSMOLINA: Paul O'Donnell; Stephen Duffy, Colm Reilly, Jonathan O'Boyle; Declan Keating, Pat McAndrew, Gerry O'Malley; Gabriel Walsh, Mark Leonard; Sean Kelly, Ciaran McDonald, Cathal Carolan; Paul McGuinness, Joe Keane, Brian Benson. Subs used: Enda Lavelle (for Leonard), Michael Moyles (for Walsh), Stephen Rochford (for McGuinness), Tom Nallen (for Reilly), James Nallen (for O'Malley).
BALLAGHADERREEN: Ollie Flanagan; David Loftus, Phillip Rogers, Tomas Regan; Stephen Drake, David Kilcullen, Noel Tuohy; Dessie Keegan, Declan McGarry; Micheal Solan, Andy Hanly, Peter Kelly; Barry Solan, Barry Regan, Joe Dillon.
Referee: Peter Geraghty (Swinford).
I wonder was Johnno at this game, i doubt it.
Unbelievable, what a way to treat a guy that has given 13 years service and practically carried Mayo to the final in 04/06. I'm disgusted. It wouldn't happen in any other county.We are so blessed with footballers that we can jettison the best forward in the county. Imagine Tyrone getting rid of PTG in the same way. It's up there with Steve Stauntan asking Denis Irwin to try out for his place in the Ireland squad. pure nonsence. I'm afraid we will be looking for our fourth manager in 6 years before August is finished.
Why do we always need to wash our linen in public, its all over the papers and news now today and will be for a while.
Quote from: Davitt Man on April 30, 2008, 10:30:35 AM
Why do we always need to wash our linen in public, its all over the papers and news now today and will be for a while.
poor management decisions should have just came out and said that he didn't have mc in his plans end of story. In fairness i'm glad mc did the interview as least people can see his point of view,
Quote from: the Deel Rover on April 30, 2008, 10:11:16 AM
have to disagree with you there stephenite, why should the player be in contact with the management fair enough if you were part of the managements plans but jesus what would the conversation be. how's it going john o' just wondering how your keeping haven't heard from you in a few months am i still part of your plans , the onus is on the management to let the players know whether you a player are part of their plans or not.
I see your point, but if he was the player that JOM stayed in touch with the most throughout the preceeding 13 months then they've obviously had somethings to talk about!!!
This looks like a case of constructive dismissal lads...
Quote from: stephenite on April 30, 2008, 10:39:55 AM
Quote from: the Deel Rover on April 30, 2008, 10:11:16 AM
have to disagree with you there stephenite, why should the player be in contact with the management fair enough if you were part of the managements plans but jesus what would the conversation be. how's it going john o' just wondering how your keeping haven't heard from you in a few months am i still part of your plans , the onus is on the management to let the players know whether you a player are part of their plans or not.
I see your point, but if he was the player that JOM stayed in touch with the most throughout the preceeding 13 months then they've obviously had somethings to talk about!!!
Well since mayo got knocked out last june and o 'mahony stated then that no harsh decision would be made regarding the older players and that they would be given time off we could assume he would not have been in contact with Mc till this year so in fact i'd say he has been in contact fcuk all the past 11 months maybe the proceeding 7 months he may have been but it looks like feck all contact has been made since june of last year stephenite.
Seems like pretty shabby treatment to me. The man deserves better after all these years. Its an insult to ask him to play in a trial match at this stage of his career. He is a big game player.
Quote from: the Deel Rover on April 30, 2008, 10:48:38 AM
Quote from: stephenite on April 30, 2008, 10:39:55 AM
Quote from: the Deel Rover on April 30, 2008, 10:11:16 AM
have to disagree with you there stephenite, why should the player be in contact with the management fair enough if you were part of the managements plans but jesus what would the conversation be. how's it going john o' just wondering how your keeping haven't heard from you in a few months am i still part of your plans , the onus is on the management to let the players know whether you a player are part of their plans or not.
I see your point, but if he was the player that JOM stayed in touch with the most throughout the preceeding 13 months then they've obviously had somethings to talk about!!!
Well since mayo got knocked out last june and o 'mahony stated then that no harsh decision would be made regarding the older players and that they would be given time off we could assume he would not have been in contact with Mc till this year so in fact i'd say he has been in contact fcuk all the past 11 months maybe the proceeding 7 months he may have been but it looks like feck all contact has been made since june of last year stephenite.
I'm just going on the second reports of the intetrview and doing me own maths, based on the lack of contacts for 5 monhts.
Anyway - doesn't matter at this stage, JOM can pick up the phone, there's been a misunderstanding me auld flower and invite Ciaran onto the panel. Or he can not bother picking up the phone and drive on - after this interview the ball is firmly in JOM's court and it's up to him now to sort it out. Time will tell.........
Unbloddy believable. A serious shambles. McDonald has never given an interview before in my recollection and has really blown the cat amongst the pigeons.
To say it is shabby to contact him by text is an understatement. If JOM was to busy to phone him, or not man enough to phone such a great servant of Mayo football he is not the man that people make him out to be.
For me the problem begins and ends with this daft notion of a public announcement of a championship panel. We never had such carry on before. "open-ended" was always the key word.
McDonald is the best forward in the county and still has much to offer. He is respected by other team mates and is well recognised for being of great support to the younger players on the panel.
There are just so many ifs buts and maybes to the situation but there is no way of resolving it now.
It may be an unfair question but is the managers full focus on this job - does he want it? was it just a helpful avenue to his political career? The evidence to date is one of little progress, although judgement has to be made come Summer. But it keeps coming back to the way our County Board have acted over the years and treated decent men like Mickey Moran. Any mess we have we deserve.
Quote from: Barney on April 30, 2008, 11:09:08 AM
For me the problem begins and ends with this daft notion of a public announcement of a championship panel. We never had such carry on before. "open-ended" was always the key word.
Ye i couldn't understand that either why did we have to do that? have any other counties done that maybe its something to do with the grants and the county board requested it .
So there’s another twist to the story!
I’ve referred before to an interview that O’Mahony gave to the Mayo News, back earlier in the year, before the league began.
In it he claimed that he had spoken to Ciaran on the phone about his medical state and furthermore it was reported in that interview that he would be kept informed of Mac’s progress.
Now Mac appears to flatly contradict this.
One of them seems to been economical with the truth.
I just wonder which of them it is….
Jasus, if this is where my 20 euro / mth is going .......................?
Sounds to me like the only way both MacD and JOM can get any concilliation on this is to meet face to face. MacD has a stubborn history so I can't see this happening and therefore can't see him playing under Johno.
QuoteI don't want to be walking down the street later on and having lads coming up to saying 'what sort of Mayoman are you when you won't even play for your county'. It's the management's decision that I'm not there and people should know that," he said.
Johno has said that he is still open to MacD coming back.. the ball is now back in his court, it will be interesting to see 'what sort of Mayoman he is ' in the next week or so. My view is that he will be the stubborn sort.
In saying all this I respect both MacD and JOM, both for thier past exploits, however whats done in the past is over now and its the future of the county now that counts. We can't be living off past glory's (or near ones!).
Like most others I am a big fan of McDonald and his skills and thrills but I think it's naive to assume that 'management' made a mistake in the way they communicated (or didn't communicate) - just 1 text ???? surely the dogs in the street would know that to get McD back required more than a text - previous conflicts and problems between him and previous managers happened and had to be resolved. So the history of the management of the man is there and surely the current management know that it would have to be a bit more than a text - a bit of an effort but not much and so what !!!! So firstly, the type and level of communication can't have been an oversight or mistake by management - can it? - if they failed to see that one coming it's very worrying as surely a major characteistic of management these days is 'people skills'. Very worrying if they were blind to what was needed - unlikely you would have to say.
Second, the issue that is a bit more delicate. Many highly talented sportspeople and players can pose a few problems for managers (Roy Keane comes to mind). And avoiding going into the who's right / who's wrong debate let's just take it "that's the way it is". So should Ciaran McD be treated a little different by management ??? and by that I mean basic things like communication, trial matches, friendly matches etc.....a little bit of a different approach, a bit of pandering maybe, a bit of comprimise here and there. It looks like that's what was needed. For all we know maybe some efforts were made. CMcD has often tested his managers but there is no question that he has contributed greatly to Mayo football, is a hard working and honest player and there's plenty of football in him yet !! Maybe it's late but not too late for the 'people skills' and "diplomatic skills" user manuals to be dusted down.!!!!
Tuesday, 22 January 2008
More might be revealed under Ballinrobe lights
Mike Finnerty
THERE are some very important phone calls to be made by Mayo manager John O'Mahony this week as he attempts to finalise his panel for the National Football League that begins on Saturday, February 2.
Despite some speculation, there has been no agreement yet reached between Mayo and Ballina about the availability of the Stephenites' players for the opening round of the NFL away to Derry.
Mayo take on Westmeath in a challenge game next Saturday night under floodlights in Ballinrobe and O'Mahony confirmed that "some guys will be back" for that game. However, he declined to confirm which specific players will return, saying that "all will be revealed" after he contacted players individually later this week.
The likes of Trevor Mortimer, David Heaney, James Nallen, Kevin O'Neill and Ciaran McDonald played no part in the FBD League but both Mortimer and Heaney are expected to be back in the fold sooner rather than later.
Mayo also play DIT next weekend in a challenge game and among those expected to feature in at least one of the two games are Tom Cunniffe, Aidan Campbell, Aidan Kilcoyne, Barry Moran, Conor Mortimer and Andy Moran.
Westmeath manager Tomás Ó Flatharta will also be anxious to get back to winning ways ahead of his team's opening game in Division 2 of the National League away to Dublin.
Next Saturday evening's match throws-in at 6.30pm and the winners will be presented with the Tim Kelly Engineering Floodlit Cup. Ballinrobe GAA Club Chairman, Peter Walkin is expecting a large crowd to turn out.
"There's something very special about night-time football and advice to people intending to travel would be to get to Flanagan Park in plenty of time and enjoy the atmosphere and the action."
Were all the players contacted by text message in Jan last?
Meanwhile, John O'Mahony confirmed that David Heaney, Kevin O'Neill and Trevor Mortimer will be concentrating on weights during the month of January while James Nallen and Ciaran McDonald have yet to rejoin the squad.
However, he said that no player from last year's panel had made themselves unavailable for selection.
"What we're beginning here is a transition period and we'd like everyone on board to help us get onto the next level," explained the Mayo manager. "Everyone is available if needed at the moment but things will probably become clearer over the next few weeks and months. Nobody has opted out yet anyway."
From Mayo News 2nd Jan 08
I heard parts of the the interview on the internet this morning (i only had one ear on it as i was busy at the time). But oen bit i did hear was that jom would not rule out naming mcd in the panel at some stage and that the panel of 29 is a not a definative number with injuries (barrett)etc. He also spoke about mcds fine display at the weekend.
I get the impression that the mcd interview has put the cat amoungst the pigeons and that mcd will be names in the next few weeks
Quote from: moysider on April 29, 2008, 06:04:15 PM
Quote from: Lar Naparka on April 29, 2008, 03:32:03 PM
Lads, there are a few things we have to keep in mind about Mayo football.
We fans are a very hard lot to satisfy!
We want an AI every year and feel disappointed if we only go close. There is no pressure like this put on any other manager or panel. And if there is pressure is coming form the fans, the county board seem to be a hard lot to get on with also.
Think of every manager back to Johnno and the 89' final: Did a single one of them leave the scene without bad feelings of some sort?
I think it was brave or foolhardy of Johnno to take on the job for a second spell; already there is a backlash growing. It would appear that Ciaran has left of his own free will. Good luck to him if he did; that's his decision.
Whatever the reason, O'Mahony knows he will blamed by many if we don't win an A1 this year.
O'M did say he was in for a three year haul and I don't seem him extending his term beyond that. I hope we all now row in behind him and his team and urge them on to go as far as they can this year. Speculation will always be a fact of life in Mayo football circles but it is time to put this controversy to bed and move on.
Agree Lar but you know as well as I do that it wont happen that way. Everybody knows that Mac would never do what DB did and announce his retirement and get the 2 page Western spread. And as long as he says nothing there will be speculation from some fans about a possible comeback as long as we re alive in the championship. Other people I talked about him being not in the panel we re not too bothered. 'No harm' was one remark I remember. Realistically if he were to be involved he should have been involved a couple of months ago in some way or other. I have never agreed with his late returns to the panel. Compare that to Padraig Joyce s early appearance every year and how Galway have a settled team most years for the league rounds.On the other hand Mac is such a good player it ll be always tempting to have him back - late or not. As I said, management would have preferred a quick kill on this with an announcement of retirement but that s not going to happen and its bound to get messy and drag on for this summer at least. The fact that the best attacking talent we ve produced since Mac came on the scene a decade and a half ago[ and the best we re likely to see for some time] has gone to Aussie rules makes it more difficult for some fans to accept that Mac is not going to be there either anymore.
I hope ye forgive me for kinda quoting myself but the only shocking thing about this is that some people sound surprised by developments. something was going to happen.
Alarm bells started ringing for me when Johnno mentioned trial match a few weeks ago. When I said as much on here I nearly got ate. Trial matches are a not too great a way of sorting underage talent. If management wanted to check Mac s form they had plenty of opportunity to go watch him play for his club in recent weeks. They would quickly establish whether he had something to offer or not. And before anybody comes on to point out that a trial match would be asking him to step up a notch and club is nt county - dont bother. Spare me the BS. Like a good horse trainer can tell the well being of a classhorse by just watching him move any halfarsed football man would be able to tell last Sunday whether Mac was up to it anymore or not. As soon as his injury had cleared up he was back. End of.
As for communicating with players by text, that only happens even at club junior level for week to week housekeeping duties. Things like traveling arrangements. Not at all appropriate in this instance. I know for a fact that when Tommy Lyons was manager of Ballina he regularly rang some lads - those away at college etc - just to keep tabs on things. If they could nt get Mac on the phone they could have visited him at work [ not ideal I know but worth it] or nabbed him after a Crossmolina match.
I too was puzzled about they naming this panel BS. If the County Board insisted on it because they wanted closure for secretarial reasons because of the grants then it s a sorry development. Was nt so much against the grants myself but if the GPA and the grants initiative have contributed to this mess well.......
Dont know whether to laugh or cry to be honest. The Johnno interview was car crash radio. Never heard the man under so much pressure. I wonder would he have been as quick off the mark going to the radio if he was nt concerned about his popularity as a politician being damaged. It struck me as being an exercise in damage limitation. You could almost see him dodging the bullets.
Heard the beginning of the interview on the radio myself. Have to say O'Mahony sounded like a great politician dodging questions left, right and centre. I'd imagine Mac would call it like it is though. Although the heading of the article 'Forced Out' is hardly fair either...
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 30, 2008, 01:36:00 PM
Heard the beginning of the interview on the radio myself. Have to say O'Mahony sounded like a great politician dodging questions left, right and centre. I'd imagine Mac would call it like it is though. Although the heading of the article 'Forced Out' is hardly fair either...
Not fair at all Farrandeelinbut thats sports editing at the Indo I m afraid. Pity those giving Mac advice did nt tell him to ring Keith Duggan or Kieran Shannon and not Brehony.
Quote from: moysider on April 30, 2008, 01:53:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 30, 2008, 01:36:00 PM
Heard the beginning of the interview on the radio myself. Have to say O'Mahony sounded like a great politician dodging questions left, right and centre. I'd imagine Mac would call it like it is though. Although the heading of the article 'Forced Out' is hardly fair either...
Not fair at all Farrandeelinbut thats sports editing at the Indo I m afraid. Pity those giving Mac advice did nt tell him to ring Keith Duggan or Kieran Shannon and not Brehony.
In fairness to the Journalist, they have no input into the headlines.
highorlow, can you recall if this is the interview in which O’Mahony stated he had been in phone contact with Mac about the state of his injuries and would be keeping in phone contact about his recovery. The timing is about right but I can’t recall the exact words now.
John was stating here that he had been in contact with Ciaran and would be kept informed of his progress. Period.
Both of them can’t be right!
It’s the manager call when picking his panel and if he has decided to dispense with Ciaran’s services, I’d say, “F**k him, but he has the right to do it!”
If he dropped him in the way the player claims, it reflects no credit whatsoever on the management. It’s just my opinion but I think both of them may have flung their rattles out of their prams in this case.
For my own peace of mind and to avoid controversy dogging the team throughout the championships, I hope the matter of Ciaran’s departure is settled. (If that includes a possible return, it would be mighty!)
Quote from: heffo on April 30, 2008, 01:56:38 PM
Quote from: moysider on April 30, 2008, 01:53:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 30, 2008, 01:36:00 PM
Heard the beginning of the interview on the radio myself. Have to say O'Mahony sounded like a great politician dodging questions left, right and centre. I'd imagine Mac would call it like it is though. Although the heading of the article 'Forced Out' is hardly fair either...
Not fair at all Farrandeelinbut thats sports editing at the Indo I m afraid. Pity those giving Mac advice did nt tell him to ring Keith Duggan or Kieran Shannon and not Brehony.
In fairness to the Journalist, they have no input into the headlines.
In fairness Heffo I did blame the editing rather than the journalist. I just think if he was advised to talk to the fourth estate then he might have gone for more a up- market journalist whose editor would nt sensationalise things. Lord knows things are sensational enough around here at the best of times.
Quote from: moysider on April 30, 2008, 02:11:15 PM
Quote from: heffo on April 30, 2008, 01:56:38 PM
Quote from: moysider on April 30, 2008, 01:53:30 PM
Quote from: Farrandeelin on April 30, 2008, 01:36:00 PM
Heard the beginning of the interview on the radio myself. Have to say O'Mahony sounded like a great politician dodging questions left, right and centre. I'd imagine Mac would call it like it is though. Although the heading of the article 'Forced Out' is hardly fair either...
Not fair at all Farrandeelinbut thats sports editing at the Indo I m afraid. Pity those giving Mac advice did nt tell him to ring Keith Duggan or Kieran Shannon and not Brehony.
In fairness to the Journalist, they have no input into the headlines.
In fairness Heffo I did blame the editing rather than the journalist. I just think if he was advised to talk to the fourth estate then he might have gone for more a up- market journalist whose editor would nt sensationalise things. Lord knows things are sensational enough around here at the best of times.
Comment withdrawn - didn't read your post properly!
Lots of assumptions re who contacted who, was it a text or a call, etc.
Fact is this probably had to come to a head. I for one want Mayo to always have the strongest panel together, and of course that still includes CMD. However one of the most frustrating things over the years has been the 'will he - wont he' regarding the likes of McDonald, Brady and others and too much pandering required by management in my mind, which goes against collective team building and going for a common objective. It is a team game after all. As said before, I am probably MCD's biggest fan, but looking at the bigger picture and all Mayos falings through the years, I think we all agree that we needed a stricter approach to getting committment of players. It just cant help team morale to have uncertanties among key players going into the summer. Yes, a key aspect of management is managing different personalities in different ways, but also must be seen to be fair to all as well. I think all in Mayo love CMD, and I'm sure a lot of the Mayo panel are big fans also, and sure he is a different carachter, but at the end of the day you are either in or you are out. What about the like of Heaney, T Mortimer, A Higgins, etc - lot of service there also. Ironic that the first 'interview' in years comes when MCD's bluff is called - great to know that he still wants to play for Mayo, because down through the years we were never sure until we actually saw him on the pitch. Look at it this way, there were two scenarios:
1. JOM leaves the door open to MCD. Outcone....continued speculation, squad, training methods, tactics, preparations can not be really finalised if a key player may be returning, MCD returns close to the championship, possib morale is affected, preparations have to be revisited, etc - in summary, Mayo not fully prepared as they should be going into the champtonship
2. JOM finalises squad - preparations can be properly planned and Mayo are best prepared for championship with all panel members playing a full part in the preparations.
Ideal scenarion now is that both get together and sort out the issues and we get out best squad together. In fairness I think JOM had to set the example, he will probably take some rap for it, but that is the way I want Mayo managed into the future
Quote from: Maradona on April 30, 2008, 03:34:24 PM
Lots of assumptions re who contacted who, was it a text or a call, etc.
Fact is this probably had to come to a head. I for one want Mayo to always have the strongest panel together, and of course that still includes CMD. However one of the most frustrating things over the years has been the 'will he - wont he' regarding the likes of McDonald, Brady and others and too much pandering required by management in my mind, which goes against collective team building and going for a common objective. It is a team game after all. As said before, I am probably MCD's biggest fan, but looking at the bigger picture and all Mayos falings through the years, I think we all agree that we needed a stricter approach to getting committment of players. It just cant help team morale to have uncertanties among key players going into the summer. Yes, a key aspect of management is managing different personalities in different ways, but also must be seen to be fair to all as well. I think all in Mayo love CMD, and I'm sure a lot of the Mayo panel are big fans also, and sure he is a different carachter, but at the end of the day you are either in or you are out. What about the like of Heaney, T Mortimer, A Higgins, etc - lot of service there also. Ironic that the first 'interview' in years comes when MCD's bluff is called - great to know that he still wants to play for Mayo, because down through the years we were never sure until we actually saw him on the pitch. Look at it this way, there were two scenarios:
1. JOM leaves the door open to MCD. Outcone....continued speculation, squad, training methods, tactics, preparations can not be really finalised if a key player may be returning, MCD returns close to the championship, possib morale is affected, preparations have to be revisited, etc - in summary, Mayo not fully prepared as they should be going into the champtonship
2. JOM finalises squad - preparations can be properly planned and Mayo are best prepared for championship with all panel members playing a full part in the preparations.
Ideal scenarion now is that both get together and sort out the issues and we get out best squad together. In fairness I think JOM had to set the example, he will probably take some rap for it, but that is the way I want Mayo managed into the future
Id agree with a lot of that Maradona. Its a fair way of looking at it. Even though I think the door is open for his return.
I hope both parties are mature enough to sort it out.
Quote from: AbbeySider on April 30, 2008, 03:46:16 PM
Quote from: Maradona on April 30, 2008, 03:34:24 PM
Lots of assumptions re who contacted who, was it a text or a call, etc.
Fact is this probably had to come to a head. I for one want Mayo to always have the strongest panel together, and of course that still includes CMD. However one of the most frustrating things over the years has been the 'will he - wont he' regarding the likes of McDonald, Brady and others and too much pandering required by management in my mind, which goes against collective team building and going for a common objective. It is a team game after all. As said before, I am probably MCD's biggest fan, but looking at the bigger picture and all Mayos falings through the years, I think we all agree that we needed a stricter approach to getting committment of players. It just cant help team morale to have uncertanties among key players going into the summer. Yes, a key aspect of management is managing different personalities in different ways, but also must be seen to be fair to all as well. I think all in Mayo love CMD, and I'm sure a lot of the Mayo panel are big fans also, and sure he is a different carachter, but at the end of the day you are either in or you are out. What about the like of Heaney, T Mortimer, A Higgins, etc - lot of service there also. Ironic that the first 'interview' in years comes when MCD's bluff is called - great to know that he still wants to play for Mayo, because down through the years we were never sure until we actually saw him on the pitch. Look at it this way, there were two scenarios:
1. JOM leaves the door open to MCD. Outcone....continued speculation, squad, training methods, tactics, preparations can not be really finalised if a key player may be returning, MCD returns close to the championship, possib morale is affected, preparations have to be revisited, etc - in summary, Mayo not fully prepared as they should be going into the champtonship
2. JOM finalises squad - preparations can be properly planned and Mayo are best prepared for championship with all panel members playing a full part in the preparations.
Ideal scenarion now is that both get together and sort out the issues and we get out best squad together. In fairness I think JOM had to set the example, he will probably take some rap for it, but that is the way I want Mayo managed into the future
Id agree with a lot of that Maradona. Its a fair way of looking at it. Even though I think the door is open for his return.
I hope both parties are mature enough to sort it out.
Hard to argue with any of the above in fairness. Management need to know who is available and plan accordingly. I ve gone on record here stating I was never impressed with his late returns to the squad but it appears injury was his problem this time.
I believe the root of this sorry mess is poor communication. Lets look at a couple of things we do know first.
1 Mac was a member of last years Championship panel.
2 He s had a bad back that needed sorting - Johnno said as much a few months ago..
Now as far as we re aware management were not given any indication by Mac since his involvement in last years championship of any intentions to retire. O Neill, Brady and Marty Mac all indicated they would not be returning.Fair enough. Nallen or Mac did not, so if I were management I would have assumed they were available to come back. Mac still only 32/33 and is undoubtably the best forward in the county so management would want him back when he was fit again, even if that was June or July - or you would think so anyway. Mac s recent form with the club would have told management he was playing well again and surely they could have established that his injury had been sorted without reading it in the papers first. Looks now like he could have been available to start against Sligo if people had been talking to one another - and lets face it Mac could be a better communicator as well. A friend of mine reminded me earlier of a piece Johnno wrote when Maughan was manager and communication had broken down with Brady. Johnno wrote that if he was the manager he would camp outside Brady s house until he got him to come back and play for Mayo. Obviously he does nt think McDonald s worth that kind of trouble.
What can we conclude from all of this. Is it -
[a] Johnno does nt rate him and hoped he d just go away quietly.
Management at best were assuming a retirement or at worst were downright incompetent.
[c] Something else I cant figure out.
Anyway at least this has opened a door to his returning. If he s coming back it should be as soon as possible and put this sorry mess behind us and concentrate on winning a few championship matches this year. Give him a half v Laois in Haunis on Monday ;) There d be 10,000 there in a shot ;D
None of the above was supposed to be in bold print. Editing error I m afraid. Apologies.
Quote1. JOM leaves the door open to MCD. Outcone....continued speculation, squad, training methods, tactics, preparations can not be really finalised if a key player may be returning, MCD returns close to the championship, possib morale is affected, preparations have to be revisited, etc - in summary, Mayo not fully prepared as they should be going into the champtonship
2. JOM finalises squad - preparations can be properly planned and Mayo are best prepared for championship with all panel members playing a full part in the preparations.
Better still, you combine the 2 options - JOM makes it his business to meet the man face to face and outline the scenario and close the issue with MacD as to whether he will be part of the panel. He can then get on to finalise his squad and do all the rest. So the blame here is firmly on O'Mahonys side.
Even if the scenario with MacD is that O'Mahony doesn't want him - then so be it, spell it out and move on. We have to respect this decision ....... until such time as we fail to win the All-Ireland !!
Also, there is no point in saying there was no special treatment required for James Nallen as a comparison - he is a different individual and thus requires different handling.
QuoteJohnno wrote that if he was the manager he would camp outside Brady s house until he got him to come back and play for Mayo
I'm sure John Maughan has a wry smile on his face today.
ye good posts by Maradonna and Moysider i forgot about that piece that o' mahony wrote about maughan and Brady as Blast said i'd say maughan has a wry smile on his face. I wonder what option 3 would be if this were a beer ad ;)
QuoteEven if the scenario with MacD is that O'Mahony doesn't want him - then so be it, spell it out and move on. We have to respect this decision ....... until such time as we fail to win the All-Ireland !!
If that means what I think it means, then I'm with you 100%.
Sure, it's O'Mahony's say as to who he selects, but he has to openly drop Mac or Mac has to call it a day before the controversy dies now and Mayo can concentrate on the tasks ahead.
If there's any suspicion of Mac being shafted, and there certainly is at the moment, O'Mahony will always be blamed if we don't win an AI.
Another thing is that I don't think it matters where the story appeared. It is very probable that the Indo approached Ciaran and not the other way about. Besides it is the most widely read paper there is here. The question as to how he came to be omitted is what is at issue here. Did he ignore requests to get in touch and make his intentions known or is O'Mahony telling porkies when he said he had been in touch back in January and was keeping an eye on Mac's progress with his injuries?
I wouldn't care if the story today broke in the Beano; which one is being economical with the truth?
QuoteIt is very probable that the Indo approached Ciaran and not the other way about
I doubt it in this case. I reckon it was the Cross managegment team that advised him what to do.
Important thing now is sort this out as quickly as possible. Get him back in the team, if as it seems he wants to, and get prepared to play Sligo in Castlebar on June 22. Even though Sligo are now a Div. 4 team they re bullish and cocky about turning us over as can be seen on the Connacht Champ. thread on this board. They smell blood and most within the province and a lot within our own county dont rate us at all this year. There is only one answer to that. We need a positive response to this crisis from management and hopefully from Mac as well. We at least need to lay down a marker this year in the championship. show a good deal of progression from last year anyway. Any rebuilding will be up in smoke again if we lose to Sligo in June.
QuoteI doubt it in this case. I reckon it was the Cross managegment team that advised him what to do.
hes f-cked so.
the story basically boils down to o'mahony bottled it. he didn't have the guts to be the man who ended McDonald's inter county career. how could he face the electorate again.
After 15 years playing for mayo Ciaran was entitled to at least a phone call and not jump up and down with excitement like a ambitious Minor when he received the text to come to a practice match.
its the type of management that would make you fear sligo
This really is all unbelievable.I am a fan of JOM and i think he is the right man for the job but his handling of this situation really begars belief.The pressure is already starting to come on JOM which i think is unfair,judge him after the championship but he has just handed his critics a massive stick to beat him with.Ciaran has been a fantastic servant to mayo football and its a DISGRACE the way he has been treated.We need supermac if we are to achieve anything this year and JOM has to sort this mess out for the good of Mayo football
Quote from: moysider on April 30, 2008, 11:14:54 PM
Important thing now is sort this out as quickly as possible. Get him back in the team, if as it seems he wants to, and get prepared to play Sligo in Castlebar on June 22. Even though Sligo are now a Div. 4 team they re bullish and cocky about turning us over as can be seen on the Connacht Champ. thread on this board. They smell blood and most within the province and a lot within our own county dont rate us at all this year. There is only one answer to that. We need a positive response to this crisis from management and hopefully from Mac as well. We at least need to lay down a marker this year in the championship. show a good deal of progression from last year anyway. Any rebuilding will be up in smoke again if we lose to Sligo in June.
How are we Bullish and cocky about playing Mayo in castlebar? Our management havnt set the world alight either with self destructing team selections which cost us relegation. I dont think any of us have predicted we'd beat Mayo. I certainly wont predict anything till i see a Mayo Team selected hopefully minus mcdonald ;D. And until i see our own team.
If mcdonald fit and scoring 8pts for the club 4 from play a bit of common sense and ye could see him back but itd be dishonest of me to say I want that to happen. I hope the squabbling continues and mcdonald doesnt come back then JOM would be under some pressure going into our game.
QuoteThis really is all unbelievable.I am a fan of JOM and i think he is the right man for the job but his handling of this situation really begars belief.The pressure is already starting to come on JOM which i think is unfair,judge him after the championship but he has just handed his critics a massive stick to beat him with.
I’m with you so far: I have been a believer up to now in O’Mahony and would have seen him as the best bet to land an All Ireland.
But why do you think the pressure is unfair? Who has caused it in the first place?
Yes, the critics have been handed that massive stick to wallop him with; already the backlash is evident and it’s growing all the time.
It is not an ideal way to start off the championships, is it? Matters now are that O’Mahony will always be told, “Things could have been so different if you hadn’t shafted McDonald.”
It might not be true but it will be held against him. If he no longer wants Mac he could have said so; if he hasn’t ruled out the possibility of a return for the Crossmolina man, his PR skills are not to good, are they? Many involved with Mayo football, players and managers alike, have left the scene under controversial circumstances. O’Mahony did this himself once. Will history repeat itself?
McDonald hasn't been ousted, says O'Mahony
Gaelic Football Home
By Colm Keys
Thursday May 01 2008
Mayo manager John O'Mahony moved yesterday to dispel Ciaran McDonald's assertion that he wasn't wanted by the county' senior management any more.
In a rare interview on Tuesday, McDonald challenged O'Mahony to tell him directly that he wasn't part of the Mayo plans any longer.
But O'Mahony says there is no question of him "retiring" or "forcing anybody" out of the panel.
McDonald hasn't started for Mayo since the 2006 All-Ireland final loss to Kerry.
He damaged muscles in the back prior to that game and this, it has been thought, has been the reason why he has played so little football for Mayo since. Twice in last year's championship against Galway and Derry, the Crossmolina man made cameo appearances.
But since then his contact with O'Mahony and Mayo has been minimal. He missed a championship debriefing meeting three weeks after the Derry qualifier defeat but spoke intermittently with O'Mahony over the winter, the last time a few weeks ago.
Strange
McDonald says he found the invitation -- by text -- to a trial game "strange" given his length of service to Mayo.
O'Mahony says his squad, finalised recently, is based on what he and his selectors saw during the national league.
"There's no question of forcing anybody out the panel. We have picked it on the basis of what we saw during the League, during which we used 31 players. It was open-ended but obviously there came a time when we had to make a call for the championship," he said yesterday.
"Our job it to get the best possible panel we can all pulling in the same direction in the interests of Mayo football. That's what we have done in this case but if a situation arises at any stage where a player is performing so well at club level that he deserves to get into the county set-up, it will happen.
"That applies to all players whether they have played for the county before or not," added O'Mahony.
That leaves the door open for McDonald to return but given the tone of his comments in the interview it may be difficult.
"As far as I'm concerned, it all about what's good for Mayo football. That's my only interest and only priority," said O'Mahony.
"The reality is that for the last 18 months he wasn't in a position to play. Maybe that will change in the future."
- Colm Keys
Damage limation stuff in my opinion seems that there was very little contact between management and Mc, they definately didn't go camping outside the players house ;)
Also he didn't pick the squad on the basis of what he saw during the league as Jimmy didn't play at all.
Quote from: Davitt Man on May 01, 2008, 10:39:00 AM
"The reality is that for the last 18 months he wasn't in a position to play. Maybe that will change in the future."
- Colm Keys
I don't get this quote either of course he was in a position to play the past 18 months did he not bring him on against galway and derry ???
Anyway as i thought i don't think we will see mc back in the green and red but at least we have got his side of the story. All he can do is continue to do what he does best for cross .
I thought he had opted out of the panel with back injury after the defeat in 2006? Wasn't available for the league or winter training in 2007 - came back to the championship panel last year although still not fully recovered - wasn't available for the winter training or the league this year (see article from Mayo News above)
Correct me if I'm wrong but a fully fit McDonald hasn't really been available for Mayo since 2006 - bar the two cameo appearances last year.
Something's going on between these two, they've obviously contracted a touch of the Brady/Maughan syndrome, and like that situation neither is probably entirely blameless - but O'Mahoney is the manager and he either takes the bull by the horns and sorts it out or he shuts up and gets on with what he has.
I'd love to have a few pints with John Maughan tonight and see how hard he's laughing :D
JOM's reign as Mayo Manager has been riddled with strange decisions, but this one takes the biscuit. Can anyone hoenstly say that Gill, Harte, Austy, Gardner, Kilcoyne, Campbell are better forwards than McD..not a chance.
Quote from: stephenite on May 01, 2008, 11:09:43 AM
- but O'Mahoney is the manager and he either takes the bull by the horns and sorts it out or he shuts up and gets on with what he has.
I'd love to have a few pints with John Maughan tonight and see how hard he's laughing :D
I'd say by what o'mahony has stated he won't be coming back otherwise it would look like he would be caving in to public pressure so he just has to get on with it. Ye i'd say maughan has a wry smile on his face allright stephenite
Quoteit would look like he would be caving in to public pressure
Politicians cave in to public pressure all the time!! :)
Some pricless comments on anfearrua.com on this topic (http://www.anfearrua.com/db.asp?a=topicdisplay&tid=474247)
On McDonald..
"Had great time for the man and not only for some of the hairdos etc. He brought a bit of long overdue rock'n'roll to the GAA without compromising on the sporting side." :D
...
He also produced the best retort I've heard to an opponent trash-talking.
Fermanagh back: Is it true you're riding the boss's wife?
McDonald: I'll be riding you in a minute.
:D
I have found O'Mahony's interview with Colm Keyes very enlightening. Stripping away the political double-speak, the following extracts might be a pointer to his future plans:
How about this:
[There's no question of forcing anybody out the panel.]
Or this:
[That applies to all players....]
The messiah expounded further:
[As far as I'm concerned, it all about what's good for Mayo football. That's my only interest and only priority.]
Even for a politician, this is fairly straightforward:
[The reality is that for the last 18 months he wasn't in a position to play. Maybe that will change in the future.]
Is there an olive branch being extended here?
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 01, 2008, 01:43:04 PM
I have found O'Mahony's interview with Colm Keyes very enlightening. Stripping away the political double-speak, the following extracts might be a pointer to his future plans:
How about this:
[There's no question of forcing anybody out the panel.]
Or this:
[That applies to all players....]
The messiah expounded further:
[As far as I'm concerned, it all about what's good for Mayo football. That's my only interest and only priority.]
Even for a politician, this is fairly straightforward:
[The reality is that for the last 18 months he wasn't in a position to play. Maybe that will change in the future.]
Is there an olive branch being extended here?
The whole F***ing olive tree is being extended if you ask me! Like most politicians Johnno s priority is himself and saving his own skin the priority since the shit hit the fan when the Indo arrived in Mayo yesterday. Its bacon slicer time for Johnno s arse unless he can sort this out and fast. He s a realistic man. Mac will be back. Johnno s probably been on discussion sites to see how public opinion is going and will act accordingly. Not having Mac back does nt make sense from either a football or political perspective.
QuoteThe whole F***ing olive tree is being extended if you ask me! Like most politicians Johnno s priority is himself and saving his own skin the priority since the shit hit the fan when the Indo arrived in Mayo yesterday. Its bacon slicer time for Johnno s arse unless he can sort this out and fast. He s a realistic man. Mac will be back. Johnno s probably been on discussion sites to see how public opinion is going and will act accordingly. Not having Mac back does nt make sense from either a football or political perspective.
Hang on now Lar.... where and when did Johno ditch MacD ? He has always stated that Mac's injuries were a worry and that he and his selectors were monitoring the situation. MacD appears to have made unfounded allegations on this. He is basically accusing Johnno of Constructive Dismissal from the Mayo panel.
How would you feel if you trained hard all year and played in league match's and were on the panel all year and got dropped due to the recent accelerated fitness of MacD ? So Johnno was in a difficult situation and the main problem I believe was naming a bloody panel at all .... look at the mess it has created.
Quote from: Davitt Man on April 29, 2008, 11:18:23 AM
McDonald doesn't make cut
Mayo to carry on without Crossmolina forward
Daniel Carey
MAYO have named a 29-man panel for the forthcoming championship which includes veteran defender James Nallen, but not his Crossmolina club-mate Ciaran McDonald.
The apparent end of the 33-year-old attacker's inter-county career was the major talking point at club matches over the weekend, as the man himself finished as leading scorer in the Deel Rovers' victory over Ballaghaderren on Sunday.
McDonald has not started a game for Mayo since the All-Ireland final defeat of 2006, though he did make cameo appearances against Galway and Derry during an injury-plagued 2007.
"Ciaran McDonald was invited to join us for some ... games [earlier this year] and didn't take up the offer," John O'Mahony told The Mayo News. "I admire very much Ciaran's input over the years, and he has been one of Mayo's greatest servants. But all we can do is invite people to participate."Nallen did not play in any of Mayo's league matches but did feature in a trial match in Ballinrobe last month. After an 'extended break', the college lecturer is back in harness for the summer, and O'Mahony feels he'll be a 'great influence' on his colleagues.
"We have a big changeover in the squad, a lot of young players in there, and I think there's no one more respected for what they have done and can still do – not just on the playing field but in the sense of an influence and advice for young players," he said.
Chris Barrett looks certain to miss the championship with a groin problem and has not been named in the squad.
The Belmullet clubman has sustained an osteo-pubis injury, similar to that which kept Ballina's Ger Cafferkey sidelined for 10 months. That makes the Mayo U-21 captain's participation in the senior competition most unlikely.
"It could be fairly long-term," O'Mahony confirmed. "Having said that, we've kept the door open, in case there's any dramatic improvement in the next few weeks.
"But I suppose the fact that we didn't name him, we feel on medical advice that it's not going to happen. As I would see it, Chris Barrett [has] a long career ahead of him for Mayo, and we don't want to put that at risk."
Others who have been omitted from the final squad include Crossmolina's Brian Benson, Burrishoole's Conor Moran, Enda Varley of Garrymore and Achill's Colm Cafferkey.
Well Johnno's statment to the mayo news on tuesday seemed to confirm the Mc donald was not going to be involved
QuoteWell Johnno's statment to the mayo news on tuesday seemed to confirm the Mc donald was not going to be involved
I assume you mean the one in bold wmm ? I must be miss-reading it. From where i'm sitting it clearly states that Johnno invited KMcD to participate, dosn't it?
MacD's viewpoint :
Quote"If John O'Mahony doesn't want me on the Mayo panel let him tell me to my face. If he said to me 'Ciaran, I'm going with younger lads this year' I'd be disappointed but I'd put out my hand to him and say that's fine. If he thinks I'm not good enough anymore, let him come out and say it.
Why would Johnno tell him to his face that he is not wanted for Mayo when the lad has been recovering from injury for the last 18mths and is only now reaching full fitness? and also how can MacD assume that he is dropped when it is clear and all the evidence has shown that this is not the case?
QuoteI would have loved to play with Mayo again this year but obviously he doesn't want me which is fair enough but I don't want Mayo people to think that I wouldn't play for him because it's not true. Playing for Mayo meant an awful lot to me," he said.
Where did MacD get the "obviously he dosn't want me" bit from when it is obviously an undecided situation that he may or may not be selected and obviously MacD has somewhat over reacted by giving a rare interview to a national paper on something that should be kept in-house in the interests of Mayo football.
Also, i don't believe for one minute that Mayo people walking down the streets would have in any way abused Mac in relation to the "what kind of Mayo man are you?" statement..., i for one would be praising him and wishing him well.
The irony of this whole debacle is that it appears to me that Mac has still got that sense of paranoia from his own people after the abuse he got at a league game some years ago. Now Johnno is taking the self same abuse (at a somewhat lower scale) and / or will be left open to it if Mayo don't perform this year and MacD isn't involved.
We won't win All Ireland's with this kinda carry-on. Lets compare this to the Kingdom and the Maurice Fitz scenario about a decade ago....... nothing in the national papers about that lad not making the panel even though he was firing them in from the sideline with his club...thats the differance between Mayo and Kerry , they do it right both on and off the field.
Quote from: highorlow on May 01, 2008, 04:26:06 PM
Quote
We won't win All Ireland's with this kinda carry-on. Lets compare this to the Kingdom and the Maurice Fitz scenario about a decade ago....... nothing in the national papers about that lad not making the panel even though he was firing them in from the sideline with his club...thats the differance between Mayo and Kerry , they do it right both on and off the field.
The difference is Kerry had the likes of Johnny Crowley, Dara O'Cinnede, MFR, Gooch,Hasset and these lads who were more than capable of winning all-irelands, we dont have that talent
the issue for me is not wheter Ciaran Mcdonald at 33 is still good enough to play for mayo but what sort of leader is the aging o'mahony. counties are always losing talented player galway still havent recover from donnellan early retirement not tyrone from canavan belated going,
Its time he put this issue to bed one way or another and not let it distract from Championship preparations. It grand for us to be talking baollix about it but I hope the players aren't as confused as we are about it. Lets face it Mcdonald wont be back unless we get beat by Sligo and if that happens we(and O'mahony's tyranny) are fecked anyway.
The manager has spoken so now let it be on his head.
highorlow, I think you are quoting the wrong poster!
That's what moysider wrote in response to my last post.
In moysider's case, I think he has the bloody olive branch wrong way around!
It's O'Mahony who is sending out feelers in the Colm Keys report, not Ciaran Mac.
Don't get me wrong about developments here: I'm just pointing out what may be taken from O'Mahony's latest statement.
Take a good gander at what swm posted from Tuesday's Mayo News, and obligingly highlighted.
Now if you read what I posted from the Colm Keys interview you will see that Johnno's tune has changed quite a lot.
The only thing of note that happened in between was the statement from Ciaran Mac, which was totally unexpected. I think Mac's contribution was carefully worded and was aimed at putting pressure on O'Mahony to re-consider. That's okay by me but there are one or two bits that Mac has glossed over. Both of them are being economical with the truth.
I've no problem going into this if any one cares but the important thing is that Johnno is now suggesting a possibility of Mac joining up. The ball is now with McDonald.
That is brinkmanship and politics, not football.
Moysider was right earlier when he wrote the only solution to the problem is to tog McDonald for the challenge against Laois this weekend. That way the two boys can say it was only one big misunderstanding, and the problem goes to bed.
The situation is a little more worrying in the long view though. McDonald is the sort of fella around whom teams are built. Johnno clearly - clearly - has no plans to build a team around McDonald, and that leaves us then with the question of just around whom exactly does he plan to build a team? Planning for the future is all my hat. People need to live in the here and now. It's never too early to give Galway their badly needed batin'. But how in damnation Mayo will carry out that holy duty this year I really don't know.
Part of Johnno's lustre was his reputation as a diplomat and man manager, with the John Donnellan situation being the prime example of that. He was on Newstalk during the Cork strike talking about how you need to get on with your board, and how it took himself quite some time to learn that lesson. And if all this is true, how in God's name did the current situation get to a point where McDonald ends up talking to the media, something he's always made a point of avoiding?
If McDonald togs against Laois, this all blows over for a while. But if he is back training, you then have the question of where you fit him in. Kevin McStay was making the point that, judging on league appearances, the team is more or less picked already. Does that mean that Johnno considers Campbell/Gill/McDonald interchangable players? It's all very worrying.
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 01, 2008, 04:54:17 PM
.
Take a good gander at what swm posted from Tuesday's Mayo News, and obligingly highlighted.
Now if you read what I posted from the Colm Keys interview you will see that Johnno's tune has changed quite a lot.
The only thing of note that happened in between was the statement from Ciaran Mac, which was totally unexpected. I think Mac's contribution was carefully worded and was aimed at putting pressure on O'Mahony to re-consider. That's okay by me but there are one or two bits that Mac has glossed over. Both of them are being economical with the truth.
I've no problem going into this if any one cares but the important thing is that Johnno is now suggesting a possibility of Mac joining up. The ball is now with McDonald.
That is brinkmanship and politics, not football.
thanks for that LNP I could not have put it better myself i thought i must have been reading a different paper than Hol . As you said o' mahony's tune has changed from tuesday but not a lot by doing this interview he is just covering his own ass. He doesn't want mc there he knows that, mc knows that and now the public know that because of ciarans interview if mc didn't do the interview he would plough on. He has now said the panel is kind off open in that now players who are playing well for their club may be asked in to join the panel this has changed from his statement a few weeks ago when he said that the final panel is the final panel what has made him go back on this decision. I say fair balls to mc he has been treated shoddily by the management and by doing the interview let the mayo public know the right story.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on May 01, 2008, 05:20:19 PM
The situation is a little more worrying in the long view though. McDonald is the sort of fella around whom teams are built. Johnno clearly - clearly - has no plans to build a team around McDonald, and that leaves us then with the question of just around whom exactly does he plan to build a team?
Why would he? McDonald is 33 isn't he? Either way he's not going to be around a great deal longer so why would you build a team around him now?
Mayo will have to move on at some stage without him. Maybe this is what O'Mahony wants to do which is fair enough IMO although it makes the recall of James Nallen rather puzzling.
Think its a bit unfair to say that O'Mahony doesent want McDonald or that O'Mahony things Campbell, Gill or whoever is better footballers than McDonald. I think what O'Mahony doesnt want is players dictating things, and like it or not, or deliberate or not on MCD's part, but the like of MCD and Brady have tended to dictate things in the past. I think O'Mahony is setting a line here and we cant really argue with that. I have heard (but cant confirm) that he has had problems getting one or two players to abide by the most basic rules. There can really be only one boss and if the boss is undermined, then he may as well walk.
Also, I cant understand some here saying that Maughan will be having a smile about this...he had enough similar problems with Brady, O'Neill and McDonald too at one stage. I am always wary of being critical of players because of all they put into it, but I think we in Mayo have always tended to put players on pedestals and unfortunately this has consequences.
QuoteAlso, I cant understand some here saying that Maughan will be having a smile about this...he had enough similar problems with Brady, O'Neill and McDonald too at one stage.
You must have missed the post where it was quoted from the Western People from a couple of years back where JOM was writing that if he was manager (when Muaghan was) he would camp on Bradys door until he got him to play.
Johnno would need to come out again and stop this double-speak. Is Mac going to be on the panel or not? And not about this stuff that nobody is forced out of the panel etc. If McDonald is on the panel, let him say it directly. We just want a straight answer. Whoever posted about Nallen being recalled, yet not having played in the league, fair play to ya.
McDonald has been treated disgustingly. It's a disgrace
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on May 01, 2008, 05:50:53 PM
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on May 01, 2008, 05:20:19 PM
The situation is a little more worrying in the long view though. McDonald is the sort of fella around whom teams are built. Johnno clearly - clearly - has no plans to build a team around McDonald, and that leaves us then with the question of just around whom exactly does he plan to build a team?
Why would he? McDonald is 33 isn't he? Either way he's not going to be around a great deal longer so why would you build a team around him now? Mayo will have to move on at some stage without him. Maybe this is what O'Mahony wants to do which is fair enough IMO although it makes the recall of James Nallen rather puzzling.
Why would he indeed??? Cant speak for Iolar but I suspect he means build a team for this year - the year that means most
now is this year. Its alright talking about building for a few years time when the awfully big bad wolf that is Kerry has got fed up and goes away and we might be the best of the rest which is wishful thinking anyway. Is that the best way forward then?? There are one or two here who probably remember Mayo in the 70 s, when there was always decent players coming through from minor and u21 but they never did came through, and there was always next year but it was always worse! If we F**k up in Conn. this year we will have to go to placves like Salthill next year to win. But that ll be no problem to the re-builders - right? How much rebuilding can be done in a Summer if we re poleaxed mid- july and dont play again for six months. McDonald is our best go-to player this year - at least - and if we get a few wins it is progress and other lads will get valuable championship wins - and good experience -under their belts ,and be better next year. Its alright talking about rebuidung and experience but there are two kinds of experience and last year young mayo lads had two bad experiences in Champ. My adversaries would contend it was nt as bad as losing to Kerry in Sept. I dont buy that and it should be noted a couple of those lads from last summer are not around anymore [and I dont mean Hanley ]. The best experience that our young players could get this year is a Connacht title - which always gets a great response no matter how often we ve won it. Our best chance of doing that is if mac is in the team and the sooner the better.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 01, 2008, 08:20:20 PM
Johnno would need to come out again and stop this double-speak. Is Mac going to be on the panel or not? And not about this stuff that nobody is forced out of the panel etc. If McDonald is on the panel, let him say it directly. We just want a straight answer. Whoever posted about Nallen being recalled, yet not having played in the league, fair play to ya.
You're spot on Farrandeelin. The big problem with O'Mahony in this situation, and in many more over the years, is his inability to give a straight answer, to sit on the fence.
We saw it when Maughan stepped aside in 2005 expecting O'Mahony to take over. O'Mahony hadn't said either way whether he would take over or not and gave himself the option of going either way. As we all know he opted out at that stage.
It is very rare that we'll get a to the point answer out of O'Mahony. He can be very shrewd that way. That's why I don't think any of the language used in the Mid West interview the last day was an olive branch to McDonald. It was just O'Mahony talking in generalisms and not answering the question.
Stuff like 'injuries and form can allow the panel to change'. This applies to everyone. He said McDonald's form, if it was deserving, may enable a comeback. The word was may, not will. He's just being coy. I've heard it all before. McDonald won't be back.
Talk of 'trial games' and Ciarán Mc Donald just don't make sense with me (as an outsider), those terms jar, and no disrespect to Johnno, but how can a lad that has played at the very top level for the county for the best part of, nay, the whole part of 15 years, have to turn out to participate in a parade of his talents? Not the way to deal with a player of that calibre: you count him in from the off, and if there are deficiencies to be made up, such as fitness, you give a timeframe by which time they should be addressed, with the penalty for failure to so address well mutually understood. But never a 'trial'!
I agree and disagree with the above.
Arguments for a trial game : The guy hasn't really played inter county football since September 2006, he is 33 years of age. An 18 months gap since he has been fully fit and you have to bear in mind that the last manager to see this guy fully fit at inter county level was Mickey Moran. John O'Mahony had Macdonald from the end of the league (which he didn't play in) until the defeat to Derry in the qualifiers last year. O'Mahony figures that he needs to see this guy in the flesh against the cream of other players in Mayo. His equally long serving club mate and 2 time all star James nallen didn't have any issue with it, whi should he get special treatment
I see nothing wrong with that.
Arguments against a trial game : Ciaran McDonald is probably the best, and most natural footballer that Mayo have produced in 20 years. In a county where such talent hardly ever arrives we should cherish waht we have. He's a natuarlly fit individual who looks afert himself and is still dominating the club scene in Mayo (albeit in the league) he doesn't need to prove his skill levels to anyone. We all know that whilst he's a shy individual he's as stubborn as a muel and quite a proud man, the very notion of inviting the man to a trial game is ridiculous. Everyone knew how he'd react to something like that - what ever happened to man management? One man deserves a bollocking the other deserves an arm around the shoulder and Ciaran MacDonald needs to be just told where the game is and left the f**k alone
I can see nothing wrong with that either.
The manager needs to decide if he wants MacD in the team - it really is as simple as that
Quote from: stephenite on May 02, 2008, 01:58:22 AM
The manager needs to decide if he wants MacD in the team - it really is as simple as that
I think the problem is JOM has decided in his own mind by his actions. Can't see it changing in the immediate future. If McDonald keeps playing very well for Cross the pressure on JOM will continue and only then might he consider bringing him back. It really is a holy mess
Quote from: RedandGreenSniper on May 02, 2008, 02:21:39 AM
Quote from: stephenite on May 02, 2008, 01:58:22 AM
The manager needs to decide if he wants MacD in the team - it really is as simple as that
I think the problem is JOM has decided in his own mind by his actions. Can't see it changing in the immediate future. If McDonald keeps playing very well for Cross the pressure on JOM will continue and only then might he consider bringing him back. It really is a holy mess
O'Mahoney has publicly stated that there is still an opportunity for Mac and anyone else to join the panel - he either invites him back or doesn't. And don't give me this BS about him not wanting to back down - politics and sport are seperate and the only place he'll lose votes over this come the next election will be in the Crossmolina area which is traditionally FF area anyway. That argument is a non runner - he'll be back, guaranteed.
Quote from: stephenite on May 02, 2008, 02:52:58 AM
O'Mahoney has publicly stated that there is still an opportunity for Mac and anyone else to join the panel - he either invites him back or doesn't. And don't give me this BS about him not wanting to back down - politics and sport are seperate and the only place he'll lose votes over this come the next election will be in the Crossmolina area which is traditionally FF area anyway. That argument is a non runner - he'll be back, guaranteed.
I never said it was a case of backing down.
What I am saying is that O'Mahony has made his intentions known without actually saying them (which he rarely does in any case). He appears to have made no major effort to coax McD back and while he didn't publicy rule out McDonald coming back on radio the last day, he did give him a wrap on the knuckles for conducting this affair in public, saying he prefers to do things in private. I don't think those are the actions of a man trying to sweet talk or hold out an olive branch.
And, you are right, politics has nothing to do with any decision here. If he was motivated by politcis over what he feels (rightly or wrongly) is the good of the future of the team he would have had McDonald in by now. That would appease more people than what he actually did. You have to give him credit for that much I guess.
I hope you're right, I hope he brings him back. But I don't see it happening imho. I think JOM wants to build a new Mayo team and thinks this might be hard with McDonald involved (the James Nallen issue notwithstanding, but he's in for different reasons).
There have been others who reckon O'Mahony won't want to be seen caving into public pressure - so that wasn't directed at you (or anyone really, just giving my opinon that I don't believe that to be an issue)
You're right in that he has made no major effort to coax him back in - but as Maradona says above I think he was just trying to draw a line in the sand in terms of letting everyone know that he was the one making the rules, of course he didn't count on McD going to the press!! I really don't think either one of them is blamless but Johnno as manager knows that the blame will be laid at this door if McD doesn't get back on the panel - at least if he gets him back on the panel it's one less thing for people to hold him accountable for
I don't think he'll be swayed by public pressure to be honest. He's made this decision because he feels it is the right thing to do for the betterment of the team, whether we agree with it or not.
To bring McD back in now would undermine what JOM was trying to do. Its very hard to imagine how he could bring him in without leaving egg on his own face imho. Should he bring him in - I think so. But I can only see JOM bringing him back if he realises he made a mistake in not picking him initially, it won't be because of public pressure. That's why I don't think he'll be back in, O'Mahony will have given this careful consideration and obviously feels it was the right call
Anybody who thinks the managers political career will be effected by this is mad - remember the people of Mayo voted him into Dail Eireann 5 days after we were thrashed by Galway!
JOM came into the job with massive goodwill and a willingness on people's part to be patient. Last year was a disaster but was quickly forgiven. I think he is wrong in this instance but there is no going back for either party I reckon. He is better to keep his head down, let the public and media speculate but he has made his decision. I don't think it is an interruption to the panel that is already there if they have already been advised that Mc will not be back. They'll work away quietly and we'll see what happens against Sligo.
Janey! Some of ye seem to have stronger views about Long Paddy’s daughter that ye have about Johnno or Ciaran. ;D
ray silkes thoughts here at www.mayoadvertiser.ie/index.php?aid=5789
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 02, 2008, 02:17:49 PM
Janey! Some of ye seem to have stronger views about Long Paddy's daughter that ye have about Johnno or Ciaran. ;D
Not really Lar but its a bit early in the afternoon for beer goggles and midnight madonnas. Sure you have nt been layin into the buckfast all morning? ;D
Quote from: the Deel Rover on May 02, 2008, 02:26:03 PM
ray silkes thoughts here at www.mayoadvertiser.ie/index.php?aid=5789
I know people have mixed opinions about Silke but I think its strange for the man who captained his county to the All-Ireland in 1998 under O'Mahony to be so critical. Not that he's not entitled to his opinion but could there be a bit of history there?
He's certainly not going to be flavour of the month with O'Mahony in taking McDonald's side so much in that column.
This is going to rumble indefinitely I'm afraid
Silke will always be on the side of popular opinion. Would not pay any heed to him. Probably the worst footballer ever to lift SAM and well in the running for worst pundit of all times.
Quote from: Tatler Jack on May 03, 2008, 08:56:28 AM
Silke will always be on the side of popular opinion. Would not pay any heed to him. Probably the worst footballer ever to lift SAM and well in the running for worst pundit of all times.
I agree he's well up there with the worst footballers ever to lift Sam. As an aside I once heard a conversation about Silke's ability. The first fella started off by saying 'Ray Silke isn't the best half back in Galway'. The next fella trumped that by saying 'Ray Silke isn't the best half-back in Corofin' to which was followed the immortal line by the third buck 'Ray Silke?! Ray Silke isn't even the best wing-back in his own house'!!
Still I think he's a decent pundit - he's willing to put his head on the block with his opinions. Even if you don't agree with those opinions (and I don't a lot of the time) at least he has the cajones to put his head on the block unlike other pundits who look for the fence (JOM, ironically, was probably the greatest example of that type of pundit).
I think Silke's opinion is worth listening to in this case given his experience playing under JOM
Ray Silke may not be everyone’s choice, either as a pundit or as a footballer in his day.
For all I know, he might get the same satisfaction rating as Padraig Flynn’s daughter would get on a catwalk. ;D
But do bear a few points in mind:
He was deemed good enough to captain an All-Ireland winning side. Who appointed him captain? Was it not our own John O’Mahony?
If either of them is a waste of space then the other has to be one too.
I certainly resent a lot of what he has had to say about Mayo but he does get to say it in a lot of places- and he gets paid for it into the bargain.
Plain and simple; he gets paid for spouting sh**e and I don’t, for doing much the same thing.
Maybe that’s just begrudgery but it is also a fact.
As Tatler Jack says, he does seem to come down on the side of popular opinion, doesn’t he?
But if you go with that one, popular opinion would be that Mac should be back!
Ye all know what?
This thread is clipping going just fine; I hope it keeps going. :D
Quote from: Tatler Jack on May 03, 2008, 08:56:28 AM
Silke will always be on the side of popular opinion. Would not pay any heed to him. Probably the worst footballer ever to lift SAM and well in the running for worst pundit of all times.
[/quote
Did anyone hear him on Today FM yesterday about the Padraig Joyce incident in Castlebar....he said he had a similar experience following a connacht Final...some young Mayo lad gave him a lash of a flag following the game :D...how it was a disgrace...blah blah blah
Not that it's relevant but I assume Silke was appointed captain because Corofin were county champions at the time. Lucky man!!
Keith Duggan has a thoughtful piece about the crisis in this morning's Irish Times: http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/sport/2008/0503/1209760557139.html
Maverick between Cross and hard place
Sat, May 03, 2008
GAELIC GAMES/PROFILE OF MAYO'S CIARAN McDONALD: If the Crossmolina man's days in the red and green prove to be really over, the game itself will be the biggest loser, writes Keith Duggan
NOTHING ABOUT the football life of Ciarán McDonald has been straightforward and in many ways it is apt the Crossmolina legend would choose to rage against the dying of the light. There was widespread regret when McDonald, aged 33 now, was not named on the Mayo championship squad last week, but few could deem the omission unreasonable.
McDonald had not started a Mayo championship match since the All-Ireland final of 2006 and his involvement with John O'Mahony's squad last year was fleeting, badly compromised by the persistent backache that has dogged the man in recent years.
His last appearance was as a late substitute in a dismal All-Ireland qualifier against Derry, curiously the very county against whom he made his debut in 1993. He has not been part of the squad at all this year.
For Mayo football people of a certain generation, the announcement of a Mayo panel without McDonald must have felt like a genuine end to their youth. All those from the age of 30 to 35 grew up with McDonald as their most celebrated peer.
Here was a thoroughly modernist football player with a persona that was arresting and authentic, a man who played in a manner uniquely of his own creation but also gloried in the traditional virtues of the game.
McDonald on song on a hot day in McHale Park was summer itself. He played football like Best played soccer, like Larry Bird played hoops, like Ayrton Senna raced cars, like John Troy played hurling. You might not always see him win but you walked away from the ground knowing you had seen something illuminating and rare, something different.
In Mayo, there seemed to be a vague belief McDonald would go on forever. It probably never occurred to anyone until last week he was just as mortal as the rest.
Perhaps it never occurred to McDonald himself. Given the Crossmolina man's long history of public reticence, with almost 13 years of gallant silence that suggested he would be happy to let the record speak for itself, his decision to "go running to the papers" this week was staggering. It was a bit like flicking on the television to find JD Salinger yapping on the Late Late Show.
McDonald gave his version of his omission from the panel in Wednesday's Irish Independent. It was clear from his comments he was deeply and honestly pained by his omission from the squad and, not for the first time, he had fears the Mayo public would believe he was indifferent to his county.
His account of communications with John O'Mahony suggested the lines between the pair were hazy at best. It didn't tally with the long-established form of O'Mahony, a man who has proven himself an exceptionally skilful communicator in the sporting as well as the political arenas.
Former Mayo players often chuckle at O'Mahony's seemingly clairvoyant ability to know their whereabouts at all times.
The Mayo manager has expressed his view on McDonald's ability many times in the past. But while football fans can afford to be sentimental, managers must, by necessity, be pathologically forward-thinking.
McDonald was not involved in this year's league but like a number of established senior men, he was in the minds of the management team. But in O'Mahony's mind there had to be a cut-off point in terms of the championship and McDonald's declining of an invitation to attend a challenge game was probably what prompted O'Mahony to draw the line in the sand.
As it was, O'Mahony was happy to clarify that the absence from McDonald was not a snub or an attempt to call time on the county days of a player whose legend will unquestionably bloom in the coming years and decades.
"It is not my intention to retire any player," he said yesterday. "This panel was put together based on players we had seen in the league and after we had invited a number of more senior players in for certain games we had organised. There came a time when names had to be put down on paper. I had to tell four of five guys they would be part of future Mayo panels but not this one.
"I have the highest admiration for Ciarán McDonald. And panels by their very nature are never set in stone. We will always be open to a player showing so well at club level that he deserves to be brought into the county panel and that will remain the case this summer."
O'Mahony's rationale is understandable and follows the normal procedure for finalising a championship panel. But nothing about the history of McDonald and Mayo has been normal.
The Crossmolina man has given 13 years of championship service that have been sometimes frustrating and frequently brilliant. But that passage has never been smooth. McDonald was an iconoclast and a fiercely independent soul trying to operate in a culture where the team ethic is everything. Over the years, his persona and importance became so powerful it was generally accepted the rules worked slightly differently where he was concerned.
He might not appear throughout entire leagues but rejoin panels late, and during those absences he was often more a rumour than a figure of substance in the county, a disappeared man performing feats of Herculean endeavour in the family pipe-laying trade in remote outposts of the county.
But when he did reappear, his hunger for training was considered absolute and his influence on the team immense and obvious. And the last word on McDonald, for all his idiosyncrasies, has always been that he is a likeable and decent person, a salt-of-the-earth type.
He has just been impossible to pin down.
The irony is that this release from the Mayo panel seems to have left McDonald feeling somewhat trapped. He operated beyond convention for so long that his shock at being omitted from a nominal panel was almost certainly heartfelt. And there is something almost innocent about his fears people would think he had decided against playing for the county.
For McDonald advocates, there is a glimmer of hope in that the Mayo panel contains one vacant place - contingent on a troublesome injury suffered by Chris Barrett. But whether McDonald would agree to return in the aftermath of this week's rare outburst is a different matter.
It could be that the public will never know anyway; even if O'Mahony does extend an olive branch, he will be too discreet to publicise it. And McDonald, having spoken, is likely to say nothing further on this matter.
In the past, O'Mahony was famed for his diplomatic handling of strong-minded players, and it could well be the pair will sit down in privacy. And nothing would better prove McDonald's stated desire to still turn out for his county than to agree to rejoin the squad under whatever conditions O'Mahony might impose.
In Mayo, they will wait with bated breath and no great hope. Here is a situation where two strong-minded men believe they are in the right. O'Mahony has an obligation to push on with getting Mayo ready for the big games ahead. McDonald will carry on in lone-spirit mode - he delivered a notable riposte against Ballaghaderreen in a league game last week, hitting four points from play in a personal haul of eight.
A summer of club fireworks for Crossmolina will mean the calls for his instatement will persist.
McDonald was almost wistful in his acknowledgement that the Mayo management might have decided to go with younger men. He understands better than anyone that there are very few seasons left and now, this one hangs by the thinnest of threads.
All anyone can say with certainty is that if Ciarán McDonald's Mayo football days are over, then the game itself will suffer most of all.
QuoteNot that it's relevant but I assume Silke was appointed captain because Corofin were county champions at the time. Lucky man!!
You’re right, TJ; he got that honour because he was Corofin’s captain and he had already led them to their first and only club AI.
I vaguely recall O’Mahony blathering away about his inspiring qualities of leadership before the championships began. It sure was his lucky year.
For me, Keith Duggan is one of the better writers around and he has come at this from a different perspective than Silke. Maybe the logical thing to do is to consider both articles and you will get a more complete picture than either writer conveys. To me, O’Mahony’s job is to manage and he is entitled to decide if Mac fits into his plans or not but Mac deserved a face to face meeting to discuss his future. Here the onus was on O’Mahony to see it came to pass, as he was the one going to call the shots.
“There is no wriggle room left, Ciaran; I want a yes or no and I want it now.”
I think a message delivered directly along those lines would have sufficed to fulfil O’Mahony’s obligations as manager.
This is just an aside here; has any other county finalised its panel and closed it off?
he reality is johnno doesn't want mc donald on the panel despite the public utterances. We're talking about an experienced manager who's won more titles to beat the band, if he wanted mc donald on the panel he'd be there. I suspect Mc Donald is aware Johnno doesn't want his services and isn't too happy about it. Which is understandable. Shoddy treatment for such a gifted player, but that's the nults and bolts of it from my point of view.
Johnno really on a limb now- if he doesn't deliver at least a connacht tiltle the knives will be out. Mc Donald i doubt will play for Mayo this year. Johnno can't really back down now and it's clear to me Mc Donald isn't in his plans.
Quote"There is no wriggle room left, Ciaran; I want a yes or no and I want it now."
IS THERE ANY OTHER ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION OTHER THAN f**k YUOU
that's the kind of blueshirt diplomacy that bruton ended The 1st IRA ceasefire with within a few months of being taoiseach.
The point of the exercise is to get the best team out not to show whose boss and try and humiliate players
Quote“There is no wriggle room left, Ciaran; I want a yes or no and I want it now.”
IS THERE ANY OTHER ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION OTHER THAN f**k YUOU
You are not getting my drift with that one, ros.
O’Mahony had the option to do this but he didn’t. Why not?
Because it would have gotten him a straight answer, that’s why! Ciaran might have spelt out the reasons why he was unhappy and that might have caused embarrassment in some quarters.
The way O’Mahony chose to was a classic case of mishandling the situation. The manager, any manager has ultimate authority but with that comes ultimate responsibility. He knows damn well it was his job to ascertain the player’s intentions before going public and saying Mac had decided not to re-join the squad.
It could very well be that Mac has had enough but O’Mahony should not have assumed this. It was his job to check certain that Ciaran was leaving of his own free will before stating this in public. Mac felt his good name was being called into question and went public on this. Rightly or wrongly, he felt he had been shafted and said this.
What was O’Mahony’s reaction??
Did he deny directly any thing McDonald said? I can’t see any evidence of this in his reply. No, Ciaran wasn’t being shafted at all; he could still find his way back into O’Mahony’s plans if his club form warranted this and after all, the entire panel wasn’t really closed firmly in any player’s face.
There is no point in O’Mahony spouting bullshit about the difficulties he had in contacting the player either. He was the boss and he should have checked out the player’s intentions, with a straight yes or no question if necessary, but he flunked that.
Note again that O’Mahony hasn’t contradicted anything that Ciaran said; instead he went on to speak of possibilities that just weren’t there when he implied that Mac had turned his back on his fans in Mayo.
Quote from: rosnarun on May 05, 2008, 08:13:43 PM
IS THERE ANY OTHER ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION OTHER THAN f**k YUOU
Plenty of other answers, but you need two things
1) A brain
2) Not to be wearing any blinkers
Sadly you don't qualify for either.
This protracted debate is doing my head in. He's a 33 year old man not some nervous school girl waiting to be asked to the ball, this notion that he should be treated differently because of his special talent is pure rubbish, he is the best footballer I've ever seen, and should be playing for Mayo and it was bad management, we've nearly all agreed on that but spare me all the rest
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 05, 2008, 11:32:23 PM
Quote"There is no wriggle room left, Ciaran; I want a yes or no and I want it now."
IS THERE ANY OTHER ANSWER TO THAT QUESTION OTHER THAN f**k YUOU
You are not getting my drift with that one, ros.
O'Mahony had the option to do this but he didn't. Why not?
Because it would have gotten him a straight answer, that's why! Ciaran might have spelt out the reasons why he was unhappy and that might have caused embarrassment in some quarters.
The way O'Mahony chose to was a classic case of mishandling the situation. The manager, any manager has ultimate authority but with that comes ultimate responsibility. He knows damn well it was his job to ascertain the player's intentions before going public and saying Mac had decided not to re-join the squad.
It could very well be that Mac has had enough but O'Mahony should not have assumed this. It was his job to check certain that Ciaran was leaving of his own free will before stating this in public. Mac felt his good name was being called into question and went public on this. Rightly or wrongly, he felt he had been shafted and said this.
What was O'Mahony's reaction??
Did he deny directly any thing McDonald said? I can't see any evidence of this in his reply. No, Ciaran wasn't being shafted at all; he could still find his way back into O'Mahony's plans if his club form warranted this and after all, the entire panel wasn't really closed firmly in any player's face.
There is no point in O'Mahony spouting bullshit about the difficulties he had in contacting the player either. He was the boss and he should have checked out the player's intentions, with a straight yes or no question if necessary, but he flunked that.
Note again that O'Mahony hasn't contradicted anything that Ciaran said; instead he went on to speak of possibilities that just weren't there when he implied that Mac had turned his back on his fans in Mayo.
Think you re right Lar. fact the only judgement I would question of your recent posts on this topic is your infatuation with the glamerous daughter of the well known landscape artist Pádraig Fada. ;) I happened to attend todays challenge with Laois. Only a challenge but a couple of things were apparent.
James Nallen still a class act - only the hair line has receded, he still has pace and if i was Johnno i would have been thrilled with him. He is on todays display a better option for Full back line than likes of Cuniffe, O malley or Boyle.
Aiden higgins also a lot to offer in full back line. Comfortable. Composeded. A leader. Enough pace and does nt look like he s shitting himself all the time. Again better option than those younger fellas listed above.
Anyway as far as I can see the best of the young lads for the corner are not in panel - likes of McLoughlin and Cafferkey. Nallen and Higgins best in panel.
Brings me to Mac. There appears to be a public opinion in the county and particularly outside that we re doing fine without him - he was slowing down the game blah blah blah. Dont agree with that but of course there is merit in it on paper. I prefer things to be more controlled than helter skelter. With Mac things were deliberate. Yesterday with Dillon and Andy Moran rested/injured we were a mess in the forwards once hard ball had to be won and used in the half forward line. Dillon is struggling with injury a bit it seems and in last years match in Celtic park he was ineffective due to injury. With Hanley gone who the hell is this dynamic chf that we dont need McDonald. If Dillon is injured as well we re up the creek. Parsons has the ability to do job there but its a big ask to start in championship. A lot of people think McDonald if he was available should be played closer to the goals. Fair enough, I d be delighted to have him anywhere but our cause for a no.11 is as urgent as our quest for a full back has been.
f**k me, have so many posters ever been named checked before one one article?
Kevin McStay's view is that there were wrongs on both side, but McDonald was more sinner than sinned against
It's hard to argue with any of the points he makes.
Quote
Kevin McStay
SOMETIMES you have to see the funny side to these things. And even if our very own Saipan lessens our summer prospects, a bit of humour is always welcome. It appears Nokia, the mobile phone giants, have been wrestling with a mutually exclusive set of goals; on the one hand they want to saturate the world with hand-held mobiles so that we are ever and always available to talk, while on the other, their marketing people are telling them the men of the world are about to cash in their chips unless new technology emerges.
See, the male of the species is just too contactable. 'Her Indoors' and the squad can track your every movement and when you are with the lads, such a situation is just not on!
'Where are you now?' is the most common sentence uttered on Irish mobiles and the 'Mayo Hood' I hang with have a standard set of replies to it. 'Swinford, but the traffic is heavy' means you are still in the pub in Ballina but thinking of leaving soon.
'Just stopped at the public toilets in Ballagh' is our own morse code for being on the session in Murray's of Charlestown.
Personally, I do not answer any calls that do not register as a name on my screen. And even then, I might hit the silent. But Nokia are monitoring the 'McDonald Affair' and I understand, they are about to launch a mobile that will save us all.
Called 'The Messiah II' the model is a McDXI and the sales angle is simple: you can never be contacted if you own this phone. It's brilliant in its simplicity and is expected to sell out upon launch. Watch this space...
Okay then, stop laughing at the back of the class and let's see what happened last week. This column had no sooner produced a resumé of our league performance and the subsequent announcement of the championship panel when all hell broke loose.
I deliberately stayed away from comment on C McD and Jimmy Nallen. One was in, one was out. Big deal. Move on.
A few days later the Crossmolina attacker had launched a startling and blistering attack on his manager. He felt he had been treated shabbily and was anxious to correct the perception he did not want to play for Mayo again.
The past week has affirmed, once again, that when it comes to footballers versus managers, the Mayo public row in heavily behind the player.
My own sense is that this call to the defence of the player is, in most respects, poorly informed and very often contradictory. But perhaps we need to see things from both sides before we can make a definitive judgement.
Ciaran McDonald is one of the top three attacking footballers in Mayo football today; certainly at club level and most likely at county level too. If he is fit and enthusiastic and committed to another year, his name should be in the panel, that is pretty much a no-brainer.
He has given good service in the past and for over a period of a dozen years or so; but that service has been interrupted by bouts of absence for reasons unexplained, bouts of petulance, periods of injury and periods of anger when some supporters gave him a hard time.
I accept McDonald loves playing for Mayo but the evidence also suggests that he often does so only when it suits him to be available. His league appearances over the years have been patchy and the facts of the matter are that he has failed to play league at all in recent times and made only two cameo performances in the 2007 championship.
His exclusive piece in last week's Irish Independent noted he played in the 1996 All-Ireland final and replay. For the record, allow me to note he failed to play any part in either game, a game we badly needed him to play, because he was housed Stateside.
John O'Mahony is incorrect when he states the championship panel was selected using performances in the league. That is true in most cases (as last week's piece attempted to point up) but let's be correct when we go to argue our positions: Jimmy Nallen is on the championship panel and did not play a single minute in the league.
The now infamous trial game did include Jimmy Nallen but Ciaran McDonald felt slighted by the invitation. Ciaran, get up the yard will ya...
A manager is fully entitled to ask any player to these games so that form, attitude, fitness and enthusiasm can be gauged. McDonald felt the trial would be of no value as he would be 'playing with a lot of lads for the first time'.
Hello? That is what a trial is usually about, lots of new guys trying to impress and a sprinkling of older sweats trying to do the same.
John O'Mahony made one bad call. He should have met the player face to face and told him of the management's decision. He had to know the only question pundits, hacks or supporters would ask in the seconds following the issue of the panel was: 'Is Ciaran McDonald on the panel?'
JOM knew this better than anybody and would have been very concerned, in the days prior to the release of the names, that this very scenario might unfold. That it did, with the player going to the press, was avoidable if the confrontation/meeting had taken place earlier.
It will add to the summer pressure because I cannot see a scenario whereby McDonald will be asked back or indeed will want to return. Supporters will not be as understanding towards the Mayo management and that is a most disappointing fact. We are not the great discerning followers of football we like to think we are and some of the stances taken in this case underline that.
The player is always defended because the club want to be seen to be behind him so that he will, at least, tog big for them. Many ex-players go around with very poorly thought-out positions and this too is disappointing. They know more than they say or type and when that happens, managers can be hung out to dry.
The bold truth for those that follow Mayo football is that we seem to produce more 'difficult cases' than most and then compound matters by giving them an unhealthy responsibility for our football fortunes. Down Kerry way you'd end up a panellist and then an ex-panelist.
Ciaran McDonald made a few bad decisions this winter/spring too. Non-attendance at a post-season meeting, league matches, trial game, and other gatherings was coupled with a non-communicative approach to the Mayo senior set-up.
Those circumstances could convey only one conclusion. And that conclusion was that he was no longer committed to embracing the full responsibilities and commitments of being a senior inter-county player with Mayo.
I quote the Mayo manager: 'All we can do is invite people to participate'. Of course, I accept there are two sides involved; every tango insists on that, but this dance was more stumble than grace.
Yes, Ciaran McDonald deserved to be informed, directly, face to face, that he had missed the cut. But if he did, Mayo football and especially Mayo management, deserved much more consideration than he felt he should give them.
Sean Rice is even more supportive than McStay of the management's position on this. He says it was entirely reasonable that they would call on McD to attend a trial game, and gives a brief history of McDs more controversial times in (or not in) the green and red
Quote
Sean Rice
IN baring his soul to a Dublin newspaper Ciaran McDonald has re-awakened memories that would have been best left undisturbed among the football canons of the subconscious.
McDonald's tussle with authority is not a new phenomenon. Hitches between our brightest stars and Big Brother have blemished Mayo football periodically down the decades.
Obscured by their success of 1936 were the ripples of discontent among some Mayo players over the surprise selection of Seamus O'Malley, who captained that team and was also county secretary.
A celebrated letter written in 1948 by a group of malcontents — which included Sean Flanagan and Eamonn Mongey — to an apathetic County Board, prologued the story of the illustrious Fifties.
In the Sixties jinking Joe Corcoran fell foul of the selectors and was dropped from a trip to America. In the early Nineties players objected to tactics adopted in training by Brian McDonald.
The previous decade belonged to Padraig Brogan. In his left foot, the Knockmore man carried the hopes of a new generation of footballers and supporters, but they died when his tangled web of emotional confusion brought a premature end to such a promising career.
Brogan's was not an intermittent talent. He won an All-Ireland Colleges senior championship with St Jarlath's in 1982. His performance at midfield prompted Galway's great full-forward of the Fifties, Frank Stockwell, to rank the Knockmore man's display among the greatest he had ever seen for St Jarlath's.
Laden with club honours, an U-21 medal is the sum of his All-Ireland honours at county level however. He scored some wonder goals for Mayo, but the lights went out on his potential much too early.
John Maughan had trouble with David Brady late in the Ballina man's career and, lest it be forgotten, Ciaran McDonald's communications with management were less than cordial four years ago.
On the occasion of the FBD final of 2004 the Crossmolina man failed to turn up. Conscious of a public apology Mid-West Radio was obliged to make a few weeks earlier for announcing McDonald's premature retirement from county football, greater effort was made to find the reason for his absence on this occasion.
The retraction was forced on the radio station after Mayo GAA Board dismissed the report as being untrue, McDonald having denied reaching any such decision.
You can imagine how the radio reporters felt when Kevin O'Toole, the county public relations officer, apprised them of the facts. Ciaran McDonald, he said, had made it plain that he would not tog out with Mayo again because of the abuse he received for squandering a number of chances in their Allianz League match with Fermanagh the previous week.
It was an unconvincing excuse. In that game McDonald scored two points, kicked eight wides and had a shot come back off the crossbar in the final seconds. Judgement of his performance was in no way harsh.
He had not reached his own high standards, but the outcome did not alter Mayo's position in the league table. Criticism of the Crossmolina ace, therefore, could not have been serious.
McDonald has always been an enigma. Until his surprising revelations in the Irish Independent he had kept his own counsel. Selection was never in doubt, but his availability for selection never straightforward. The arbitrary nature of his absences left you guessing how much richer a harvest he could have reaped for himself and his county.
John Maughan did entice the Crossmolina man back to his panel. He also allowed him leave from training until well into the spring, a decision with which this column had not entirely agreed. Maughan may have concluded that because McDonald was engaged in manual work he did not require the physical exercise laid down for those whose daily routine was less strenuous — and few can disagree with that argument.
But we have said here on more than once occasion that there is more to team preparation that muscular exercise. Team spirit is essential. No training is complete without the bonding that comes from togetherness, sharing in one purpose, building pride and confidence and comradeship — esprit de corps.
McDonald's absence from springtime training denied him the opportunity to share in those values. Think of the asset his presence would mean to his young team mates. If he never partook in physical exercises McDonald's god-given talents, his advice, his experiences, his wisdom, his encouragement could do for a young team what no manager or coach could summon. Surely, he could have made the effort to be present.
McDonald questioned why, after playing for Mayo for so long, management would want to see him in a trial.
Why not? To determine its strengths and weaknesses is a prerequisite in team building. Coaches would surely want to know how McDonald would interact with new players, and indeed whether his own form had in any way receded.
"I would have loved to play for Mayo again this year, but obviously he (O'Mahony) doesn't want me," he said.
Could he not have taken a minute of his precious time to pull out his phone, ring John O'Mahony and declare that he was ready to return, that he was unable to make the trial, but that he could be there for the next training stint.
I watched him score seven points for Crossmolina recently. All had the trademark quality of his marksmanship. Nothing went astray. He would be the first to admit, though, that the freedom he enjoyed against Ballaghaderreen might not be so readily available against other opposition. The photograph that accompanied his complaints shows him enveloped by Kerry opposition, a tactic that stultified his effectiveness in the All-Ireland finals.
In any inter-county competition McDonald is a marked man. His distinctiveness emanates from his left foot. Nowhere else, neither in pace, fielding nor handpassing is he quite so accomplished. There was a time when he had the agility to flaunt that left foot from any corner of the field, to score like no other. Whether that still exists remains to be seen.
His last great deed for Mayo was that winning point against Dublin two years ago. Little enough of his expertise has been on display since. Was it any wonder he was not included in the panel? And could his anguish be rooted in the realisation that at 33 he will have soon run out of time?
Given an opening he still has the accuracy to score from any angle, and in the opinion of this writer his value — if he is considered to be fit enough — could now be best suited on the bench to be sprung in the final ten or fifteen minutes of a match against an unsuspecting defence.
O'Mahony claims he has never ruled out McDonald. "Our job is to get the best possible panel we can all pulling in the same direction in the interests of Mayo football," he said.
"That's what we have done in this case, but if a situation arises at any stage where a player is performing so well at club level that he deserves to get into the county set-up, it will happen. That applies to all players whether they have played for the county before or not.
"The reality is that for the past eighteen months he (McDonald) was not in a position to play. Maybe that will change in the future."
The manager has got it right, I think.
Quote from: ludermor on May 06, 2008, 02:20:21 PM
f**k me, have so many posters ever been named checked before one one article?
And typically of me I'd be left out!
QuoteYou are not getting my drift with that one, ros
I get your point but my one is . dont ask a straight question if you wont like the answer. By forcing Mcdonald into a corner all you would do is further cut off his route of return. when dealing with people you have to take personality into account .
to mangle a phrase by Babs Keating ' trainers who cant deal with throughbreds only win donkey derbies'.
QuoteKevin McStay's view is that there were wrongs on both side, but McDonald was more sinner than sinned against
It's hard to argue with any of the points he makes.
I know what you mean, Tubberman, he certainly puts his points well and I can’t contradict him on anything he wrote here; for one thing, both he and me are relying on speculation to put our take on the controversy across.
If the Three Wise Men of the Mayo News all come to more or less the same conclusion then the case seems cut and dry, doesn’t it?
We can all join McStay in saying, “Ciaran, get up the yard will ya…”
Or can we?
To do so would be to ignore the words of another Three Wise Men, who all, co-incidentally, worked closely with McDonald over a long number of years and who happen to have had a lot of contact with O’Mahony to boot.
O’Mahony’s former All-Ireland winning captain and the Terrible Tans of Mayo football, McHale and Maughan, came to a different set of conclusions – and they gave their reasons at considerable length as well.
It’s so very confusing: as all of them get paid for what they spout, they must all be right!
So I decided to check the wise sayings of He Who Has To be Right, John the Messiah no less; after all he’s the gaffer and gaffers don’t make gaffes, do they?
Janey, I’m now more confused than ever!
John decreed (before the Kerry match, I think) that the panel was going to be closed off at the end of the league run. Things were said about the county board needing finality so tabs could be kept for grant payments. The vets, Ger Brady and Mac had to attend a trial game or wouldn’t be considered.
In Mayo-speak I think he was saying, “We can’t have more than one bull in a field and I am that bull. And I’m not talking bull either.”
Even I can understand that: the panel was being closed off .Period! No latecomers, [Aside to Mac. Come on board or else!]
Pity he used public media to broadcast his message. He didn’t have to resort to this. As Ciaran was later to say a face-to –face, man to man chat would have sufficed.
As Sean Feeney once said famously of his rows with Mickey and Beefer, dirty linen shouldn’t be laundered in public- and then proceeded to go do that himself.
Then the panel is duly announced; no Mac on board. He didn’t tell me of his intentions, sorry to see him go, great servant of Mayo football etc. etc. etc.
Then unexpectedly Mac goes public, “The bloody hoor shafted me! He made it clear all along the line that I wasn’t going to be part of his f**king plans!”
[At least that seems what he was saying!]
On mature reflection, the Messiah speaks again. This has to be it. This has to be the ultimate explanation; after all, our manager knows what he is talking about. I mean the man is a politician, isn’t he? Plain speak from here on!
Well then try this:
"Our job it to get the best possible panel we can all pulling in the same direction in the interests of Mayo football. That's what we have done in this case but if a situation arises at any stage where a player is performing so well at club level that he deserves to get into the county set-up, it will happen.”
The panel that was closed off is not really closed off at all. It is still possible for any player from Mayo to get onto the panel, or is it?
Maybe it’s all a load of bull, or just a case of having one particular bull in one particular field at this time.
Given Johnno’s ability to rival Long Paddy at speaking from both ends with equal ease, I’d have my doubts about who is telling the truth.
Those lads in the Mayo News have a job to do but I would have thought at least one of them could sing from a different hymn sheet to the others if only to play the Divils advocate in the whole saga and provide a bit of balance.
And as far our own comments on the matter - that man must have the best job in the world, reading Gaaboard all week and then copying and pasting into his article just in time for the deadline. Pints are on Daniel Carey next time anyone mentioned sees him :)
Both McStay and Rice bring up very valid points. Perhaps people on this board (myself included) have been too kind on McDonald. It is only now that we are aware that he is keen to play for Mayo. Obviously he felt his talents and experience would buy him more grace with the management than other players in the panel when perhaps he should have been a bit more forward at an earlier stage.
JOM, on the other hand, did err in not meeting him. I think a lot of the negative reaction towards JOM is due to the fact that we would expect him to be better in these types of situations than McDonald. He is known as a good man management person. We know McDonald needs man management, more than most to be honest. Who do you blame - the player who waits for the manager to move or the manager who fails to handle a difficult situation appropriately?
I still don't know how this is going to end up. Part of me has to wonder what the rest of the panel make of McD's omission in the first place, and the subsequent hysteria created by it.
I think lads we may as well put this one to bed. There will be no comeback. There will be no more interviews on the subject. Its a sad end to a great players career.
In a few weeks time on a bright western day when a big Connacht championship match is in a melting pot JOM will look into the dugout at the panel he picked and be inspired to throw on the likes of Mickey Mullins or Mark Ronaldson to be a matchwinner. On such decisions will he make or break his Mayo career (and maybe he wants out anyhow).
if you want to know that Pri*k Rice's real views on mcdonald go back and read early 2004 articles in which he impuned bith his fotball ability and goodname . of course hea had to change his tune in ala dunphy so I reckon hes is now just sticking the knife in while he can
Quote from: Barney on May 07, 2008, 08:16:02 AM
I think lads we may as well put this one to bed. There will be no comeback. There will be no more interviews on the subject. Its a sad end to a great players career.
In a few weeks time on a bright western day when a big Connacht championship match is in a melting pot JOM will look into the dugout at the panel he picked and be inspired to throw on the likes of Mickey Mullins or Mark Ronaldson to be a matchwinner. On such decisions will he make or break his Mayo career (and maybe he wants out anyhow).
Amen to that Barney however before we do that i think the real people to blame are the Aussies , pierce hanley was the next great white hope in mayo however he left for greener pastures, o mahony did his best to keep him here i hope he met the man at least ;) and if he had the fans would not be mentioning mc at all , however got me thinking there is a player who has played with mayo since he was 15 and yet the likes of sean rice writes that drivel of course they are selective with what they say they failed to state that he has played for his county nearly 70 times , also failed to state that he missed leage campaingns because cross were still involved in the Ai club series , and because of work commitments where he was working all over the country he couldn't give the committment but sure that doesn't count,in my opinion he has giving more in sweat and toil without even looking for expenses than jom ever did and before any of ye jump down my neck thats only my opinion.I tell you what pierce hanley good luck to him in Australia i hope he is a savage success beacuse at the end of the day having looked at the way Mc's career has ended he needs to look after number 1 because every one else does.Also the mayo papers know what side their bread is buttered and they will be looking fir interviews from o' mahony this year not mc so they are hardly going to give the manager a roasting are they and as ros said on his last post Rice never liked mc anyway and was allways having ago at him he didn't want him back in 2004 but had to change his tune.
I’m going to take Barney’s solid and sensible advice on this one. It’s all we can do at this stage.
I also think that it is appropriate that R&GS should have started this thread off and, for me at any rate, he has summed up the whole crux of the matter in a single paragraph.
QuoteJOM, on the other hand, did err in not meeting him. I think a lot of the negative reaction towards JOM is due to the fact that we would expect him to be better in these types of situations than McDonald. He is known as a good man management person. We know McDonald needs man management, more than most to be honest. Who do you blame - the player who waits for the manager to move or the manager who fails to handle a difficult situation appropriately?
Over and out from Lar.
No offence lads but after reading some of this thread and some of the comment on it and articles its no wonder ye are such serial underachievers. When you see JOM and McStay against McDonald well you know who is right. I simply cannot believe what is happening. Last year Maughan ran Roscommons best forward. This year O'Mahony is doing the same to Mayo. I know we've a lot of improving to do but it would give you hope!
Quote from: magpie seanie on May 07, 2008, 05:44:16 PM
No offence lads but after reading some of this thread and some of the comment on it and articles its no wonder ye are such serial underachievers. When you see JOM and McStay against McDonald well you know who is right. I simply cannot believe what is happening. Last year Maughan ran Roscommons best forward. This year O'Mahony is doing the same to Mayo. I know we've a lot of improving to do but it would give you hope!
Agree 100% Seanie - this is something we should discuss in another thread
Quote from: rosnarun on May 07, 2008, 10:11:55 AM
if you want to know that Pri*k Rice's real views on mcdonald go back and read early 2004 articles in which he impuned bith his fotball ability and goodname . of course hea had to change his tune in ala dunphy so I reckon hes is now just sticking the knife in while he can
Yep - a great man for sticking the knife into players whenever the occasion arises. Did the same to Brady a few years back, after one of his false start retirements - pronounced that DB was never of the required standard for Inter County football. How in the name of God some poor soul is actually paying that man to write opinion pieces on Mayo football is beyond me - and the worst thing is some peole think he's some kind of all knowing oracle when he clearly hasn't got a notion of what he's on about.
Writing style is shite as well
Agree with you regarding Brady Stephenite - Rice certainly seems to have an issue with him there.
Think though that his pieces are worthwhile reading generally, not as insightful as McStay, but then McStay is capable of superb stuff altogether.
Thought his comments regarding McDonald were well made, even if I wouldn't agree with them all.
It's the boring tone of his pieces that get to me
McDonald was spoken to insists O'Mahony
BY ANTHONY HENNIGAN
MAYO manager John O'Mahony has refuted allegations made by former All-Star footballer Ciaran McDonald last week, that he or his management team did not contact the player regards any possible involvement with this year's county senior football team, stating that Ciaran, like many other players, was not alone spoken to but invited to participate in trial games arranged by the Mayo management.
Speaking in a national newspaper, McDonald said that it wasn't his choice that he was not named in Mayo's championship panel and that at no stage was there an invite for him to return to the panel. "I haven't retired, but nobody told me I wasn't wanted back either and that's what I find disappointing," said the Crossmolina forward, who performed impressively in his club's league defeat to Charlestown last Saturday evening.
"I would have loved to play with Mayo again this year, but obviously he doesn't want me. If John O'Mahony doesn't want me on the Mayo panel let him tell me to my face," he continued. However, speaking to the Western People, the Mayo boss has offered a different version of events, one at odds with the views expressed by McDonald, revealing that he and his management team spoke to anyone that might be involved or who might have wished to be involved with the county team.
"Once you go through that exhaustive process of selecting a panel, you've seen so many players, you offer invitations to others and they take them up or they don't, but you speak to everybody that you want involved and I spoke to Ciaran McDonald as I did to Kevin O'Neill, as I did to David Brady, as I did to Ger Brady, as I did earlier on to David Heaney and Trevor Mortimer who were late coming in (to the squad).We would have spoken with all of those players and invited the ones that hadn't been with us for the league to participate in games. "In the case of people like James Nallen and Ciaran McDonald, basically these trial games that have been talked about were not to put lads on trial that had been there before, it was to see first of all if they were interested in coming back.We based it on the response we got to those replies," explained John O'Mahony.
"The mechanisms here aren't any different to how they ever have been but I think you have to have structures. You can't have a situation where you don't have a structure. The only alternative to that is to watch the club games every week and call in different people every Tuesday night for that particular week. You need to have structures and you need for people to identify whether they're interested or not and that's what happened in this case.
"I'm not getting into any head to head with any individual, I just want to give the context of how the panel was picked. I'm not in the business of deciding who retires or anything else," said the manager, who took to the local airwaves last Wednesday morning when the story broke, in response to points raised by McDonald in the Irish Independent interview. O'Mahony would have preferred if any perceived fallout could have remained behind closed doors and have been sorted out privately by both parties involved. "That's always the way I would wish for but that's up to the participants and I would always be willing to speak and talk.
"I would have been surprised that if there were any concerns of anyone involved that were disappointed, that they mightn't have come to me, but that's there prerogative in many respects. "You'll always have opinions of panels and that's the way the world is, particularly in the GAA and particularly in Mayo, and I've no problem with that," he concluded.
From AH's piece it sounds like McDanger took the hump by being asked to play a trial game, thinking it was a trial to get on the panel, whereas JOM thought it as a way of getting back into the fold, poor communication
John Maughan in this week's Mayo Advertiser
The only story in town
I am very conscious of the fact that the Ciaran McDonald story has been discussed at great length over the last ten days by everyone and anyone with an interest in Mayo football. I know, from my days in management, that one cannot believe every rumour that circulates when it involves inter-county footballers. Obviously I know Ciaran very well, having managed him at both club and county level for a number of years. Like most followers I have marvelled at his awesome skill and ability on the football field. I recall vividly the first time I saw him play underage football with my home club Crossmolina over 15 years ago. He stood head and shoulders above everyone on a brilliant club side that won a brace of minor A titles in 1992 and 1993. He made his senior debut for Mayo against Derry within a week of winning his second minor championship. Incidentally he was man of the match in both of those county finals.
He was a unique and awesome talent. In the intervening years he has amazed many with that left foot of his, often producing fantastic scores and executing laser-like passes when the pressure was really on in big games. I can say, without fear of contradiction, that he is the best footballer I have ever managed. He is a most likeable individual who lives and breathes football. His passion for winning has never been in doubt whether in the green and red of Mayo or in the maroon and white of his beloved Crossmolina club. He is idolised all over the country, with hundreds of school children playing in their school yards trying to mimic Ciaran McDonald and the way he might have taken a shot at goal. He has been one of the most recognised faces of Gaelic football over the last decade or more.
However, I also realise that with genius comes a complexity that can be challenging to anyone trying to harness a team ethic. Ciaran hasn't always conformed to authority and that undoubtedly is a challenge to any manager trying to get a group of players to abide by the same rules and guidelines. Ciaran is different in many ways to the "ordinary" footballer. For a start his work takes him all over the country and he has a reputation as being an awesome worker. As a result his fitness and strength conditioning is never in question. He spends an inordinate amount of time driving to and from work and this may have contributed to a lower back injury that troubled him for the past few seasons. Because of his unique situation I often took a liberal attitude to his participation in the early rounds of the National Football League, affording him some much needed rest whenever I could. However, once he committed himself to Mayo he rarely, if ever, missed a training session. I was quite often astonished to see him run onto the training field fully togged and ready for action with minutes to spare, having travelled from some far flung corner of Ireland. He might have spent three hours or more travelling to that training session but he would run himself into the ground cajoling and demanding better from those around him.
Last weekend's club action
I decided to travel to Charlestown last Saturday evening to watch Crossmolina play in the league. Naturally I had an interest in the game, but more importantly I wanted to see if Ciaran still has the ability to play at inter-county level. There is no doubt that he still possesses the talent. He played very well in that first half, kicking two points from play, and had a hand in practically every score for Cross'. His tackling and work rate around the field was excellent. The second half wasn't near as productive and with the Charlestown midfield completely dominating for the last 20 minutes, Ciaran didn't enjoy near as much possession. He had a penalty saved in that second half and missed a rather easy free which he would normally pop over with his eyes closed. There was no evidence of any back complaint during the game. The observations from those I spoke to after the game agreed that his performance the previous week against Ballaghaderreen was as near to perfection as you could get. He didn't play as well on this occasion, but those I spoke to after the game suggested that he is good enough to play inter-county football. As to whether he will play again in a Mayo shirt remains to be seen. I realise, having read his interview in the national press, that he would love one last opportunity to don the green and red of Mayo.
That club game was won by Charlestown with a winning margin of four points. They played with the breeze in the first half, but it was Crossmolina that played the better football of that half. Crossmolina went in at the break a single point in arrears and I felt they would win the game with the aid of a very stiff breeze in the second half. But with "Ginger" Tiernan rolling back the years with a vintage performance at midfield it was the Charlestown boys who played the better football. It was in this second half that I saw Tom Parsons produce the type of football that will surely see him play for Mayo in this year's championship. He has a problem, however, in that he goes missing in games and he would readily admit that he was nowhere to be found in the first half. But he was quite superb in the second, dominating in the air and displaying that subtle class that he possesses. Charlestown are a formidable outfit and they will prove a very difficult side to beat in the chase for the Moclair Cup.
A win or a draw
Mayo played Laois on Monday last at the official opening of new club facilities in Ballyhaunis. There remains some doubt as to the final score in the game. The referee suggested that Mayo had won the game by a point, but other wise GAA punters had the scores level at the end. This is one of many challenge games that will be played between now and the game against Sligo in McHale Park on the June 22 (assuming Sligo overcome London). I would never read too much into these challenge games. I recall my time playing for Mayo in the early 80s when we had the reputation of being an awesome team in challenge games, taking some of the biggest scalps around at the time. Sadly when it came to the championship we were a spent force and faltered when it mattered most.
Rembering a great talent
I was in Bofeenaun last Monday when a special Mass was celebrated to commemorate the memory of Padraig Garrett, who died suddenly 21 years ago while out training with Lahardane McHales. Padraig was an exceptionally talented footballer and was a substitute on the successful winning All-Ireland Mayo minor team of 1985. He loved his football and I recall the sadness at his passing as if it were yesterday. There was a fantastic turnout of friends and GAA players from Lahardane and Crossmolina at the Mass. Both teams then played a very keenly contested junior match for the Padraig Garrett perpetual trophy, with Crossmolina coming out narrowly on top. All in all a very appropriate way to commemorate the memory of one of our own.
Regrets for the U21s
If any of the Mayo under 21s watched the All Ireland final between Kerry and Kildare last weekend they will surely have a few regrets in not getting to that final. I am convinced that if Mayo had had Pearce Hanley lining out in this year's campaign we would have another under 21 title in the bag today. We were that close. Kerry won rather easily in the end and in so doing we learned that our under 21s were definitely the second best team in the country.
God the bit about padraig Garret bring its all back.A Giant in everyway, keeping it to even football he was a major loss to 1st to crossmolina and later after his 'Transfer' to Lahardane due to a boundary mixup ::). SO many of lads of his era passed on prematurely it brings a lump to the throat. But its good to see him still remember like this I hope the adrain Garvey cup in the School is still played for too
God Bless both of them
RIP
Quote from: rosnarun on May 09, 2008, 02:20:09 PM
God the bit about padraig Garret bring its all back.A Giant in everyway, keeping it to even football he was a major loss to 1st to crossmolina and later after his 'Transfer' to Lahardane due to a boundary mixup ::). SO many of lads of his era passed on prematurely it brings a lump to the throat. But its good to see him still remember like this I hope the adrain Garvey cup in the School is still played for too
God Bless both of them
RIP
Ye padraig was a great lad was lucky enough to be picked on his team in the school league used to really look up to him as a kid i remeber thinking how great he was been able to kick the ball over the bar from the kick outs but sure the pitch wasn't 50 metres still it was some belt of a ball for a young lad. They had a mass before the match last week Ros.I must check to see do they still play the Adian Garvey cup now that the two schools are amalgamated. Jesus when you think of it the number of players that came through the nationalschool to play senior for mayo is inreal John Maughan, Jimmy Nallen, Ciaran Mc , Peadar Gardiner, Michael Moyles never mind those that played minor. Another great lad and footballer is dead 15 years in the next few weeks Ronan Maughan god be good to him puts football into perspective doesn't it.
Quote from: Mayo4Sam on May 08, 2008, 09:21:37 PM
From AH's piece it sounds like McDanger took the hump by being asked to play a trial game, thinking it was a trial to get on the panel, whereas JOM thought it as a way of getting back into the fold, poor communication
at the end of the day he didnt participate in any of the league
noones too good to go for a trial to see how fit etc tyhey are
fair play to JM - hes not a successful manager for nothing
good article in the mayo advertiser this week from john maughan.he resists sticking the boot into j.o.m which i am sure he felt like doing.the bottom line is j.o.m did not want mcd on the panel and he can dress it up any way he wants.it is hard to believe that one of the best players ever to wear the green and red would have his inter county career end in this manner.its a bit rich of mcstay to be going on about team spirit and team bonding as when he was the manager of the mayo u 21s in 2001 he picked ger brady for the final against tyrone even tho he had not been on the panel up to that due to rugby commitments.this idea of inviting mcd to a trial game no matter what the reason, is the biggest load of bollox i have ever heard in my life.he deserved more than that and i am sure j.o.m knew that he would never show up.i think this mess all stems from the qualifer v derry last year when mcd had to sit thro 60 min. of a poor mayo performance and then was only brought on when the game was gone from mayo.i saw the game myself and it was pretty obvious that he should have been brought on early in the 2ind half.this i think rankled mcd alot and he wasnt going to go begging to j.o.m this year.all in all another sorry episode in the history of mayo football as we are now back to 3 and 4 year plans to win the all ireland.
Quote from: mayo51 on May 10, 2008, 03:59:47 AM
we are now back to 3 and 4 year plans to win the all ireland.
::) :o :o
Surely you mean 60 or 70 year plans ? :D
NEWS FROM LAST NIGHT\'S WELCOME INN SENIOR LEAGUE ACTION
May 11 2008
In last night's action in the Welcome Inn Senior Football League in Division 1A there were wins for Moy Davitts over Westport, Knockmore over Burrishoole, Crossmolina over Breaffy and draws between Davitts and Belmullet and Ballaghadereen and Charlestown. In Division 1B there were wins for Ballina over Garrymore, Shrule/Glencorrib over Tourmakeady, Castlebar ovr Kilmeena and Claremorris over Ballintubber. In Division 1C wins for Aghamore over Mayo Gaels, Swinford over Kilcommon and Bonniconlon over Kilmaine. One game in Division 1C, with Ballyhaunis and Parke ending in a draw.
QuoteAnother great lad and footballer is dead 15 years in the next few weeks Ronan Maughan god be good to him puts football into perspective doesn't it
jeez time flies cant believe its that long
wasnt there also a cup for me old mates kenneth mulkearns and sean O'malley may not have been foorball cup and of course in Keenagh we have the Mickey Lydon cup for our lad that will be going 20 years next year.
QuoteMeath 2-17
Mayo 0-16
A number of the new players brought onto the panel showed good form in Meath's challenge match win over Mayo at Dunderry.
Colm Coyle's options were limited by suspensions and injuries, but the side he put out had too much class for John O'Mahony's men.
Graham Geraghty was the best forward on view and he grabbed one of the Meath goals, while a number of additions to the panel came on over the course of the 70 plus minutes.
Brian Farrell made a comeback after his knee injury while Shane O'Rourke togged out but was an unused susbstitute.
Meath - P O'Rourke, C O'Connor, K Reilly, S Carr, T Skelly, E Harrington, C O Mealoid, M Ward, E Reilly, S Bray, B Meade, A Nestor, C Ward, J Sheridan, G Geraghty. Subs - B Sheridan, D Sheridan, B Farrell, B Ennis, H Finnegan.
Any word on the Mayo team that played on Sunday? Heard it was full strenght but I'd have my doubts.
Quote from: thejuice on May 12, 2008, 01:05:20 PM
QuoteMeath 2-17
Mayo 0-16
A number of the new players brought onto the panel showed good form in Meath's challenge match win over Mayo at Dunderry.
Colm Coyle's options were limited by suspensions and injuries, but the side he put out had too much class for John O'Mahony's men.
Graham Geraghty was the best forward on view and he grabbed one of the Meath goals, while a number of additions to the panel came on over the course of the 70 plus minutes.
Brian Farrell made a comeback after his knee injury while Shane O'Rourke togged out but was an unused susbstitute.
Meath - P O'Rourke, C O'Connor, K Reilly, S Carr, T Skelly, E Harrington, C O Mealoid, M Ward, E Reilly, S Bray, B Meade, A Nestor, C Ward, J Sheridan, G Geraghty. Subs - B Sheridan, D Sheridan, B Farrell, B Ennis, H Finnegan.
Any word on the Mayo team that played on Sunday? Heard it was full strenght but I'd have my doubts.
So we were outclassed by a weakened Meath team. Surely there was somebody there that could give us a brief report and team list. I know it was only a challenge but after last weeks awful second half against Laois and conceding 2 - 17 yesterday you d begin to worry.
From what i can gather on Mayos Hoganstand page the following were on the field, but not the complete line-up
Kilcoyne
Mortimer
Harte
McGarrity
Dillon
Austin
Higgins
Clarke
Quote from: moysider on May 12, 2008, 01:54:18 PM
Quote from: thejuice on May 12, 2008, 01:05:20 PM
QuoteMeath 2-17
Mayo 0-16
A number of the new players brought onto the panel showed good form in Meath's challenge match win over Mayo at Dunderry.
Colm Coyle's options were limited by suspensions and injuries, but the side he put out had too much class for John O'Mahony's men.
Graham Geraghty was the best forward on view and he grabbed one of the Meath goals, while a number of additions to the panel came on over the course of the 70 plus minutes.
Brian Farrell made a comeback after his knee injury while Shane O'Rourke togged out but was an unused susbstitute.
Meath - P O'Rourke, C O'Connor, K Reilly, S Carr, T Skelly, E Harrington, C O Mealoid, M Ward, E Reilly, S Bray, B Meade, A Nestor, C Ward, J Sheridan, G Geraghty. Subs - B Sheridan, D Sheridan, B Farrell, B Ennis, H Finnegan.
Any word on the Mayo team that played on Sunday? Heard it was full strenght but I'd have my doubts.
So we were outclassed by a weakened Meath team. Surely there was somebody there that could give us a brief report and team list. I know it was only a challenge but after last weeks awful second half against Laois and conceding 2 - 17 yesterday you d begin to worry.
Well last year we were flying going into the c\ship after a good league run and flopped come c\ship so maybe this year seen as were not going well we could come out flying for the c\ship!!!
Team v Meath:
Clarke, Howley, Nallen, Boyle, Heaney, Cunniffe, Higgins, McGarrity, HArte, Kilcoyne, Dillon, Mullins, C Mortimer, O'Malley, Ronaldson. Pat Kelly, Andy Moran and T Mortimer came on as subs.
Clarke
Howley
Nallen (Replaced by Kelly HT)
Boyle
Heaney (replaced by Higgins (aiden) 55)
Cuniffe (Replaced by BJP 65)
Higgins(Keith)
MacGarrity
Harte
Kilcoyne
Dillion
MIckey Mullins (Replaced by Gardiner 50)
Conor (Replaced by A moran HT)
Austie
Ronaldson (Replaced by Trevor 50)
Mayo were sharp enough in the first half with macgarrity fairly dominant, Nallen had his work cut out on sheridan, after nallen went off, cunniffe went to full back, howley to centre back and kelly to the corner....Sheridan Ran riot in the second half. Mayo couldnt gain enough possesion in the second half, short kick outs were killing meath in the first half and the football mayo played was incisive. Mayo had little interest after the load of changes and Meath were more intense as expected a week away from championship. Second half there was very little pattern to mayo and John O was constantly roariing at the lads for pressure and to not give up...howley went off injured at the very end...looked very bad, would be a massive loss, he was mayo's best defender.
No seamus o shea(he was there but not togged) no parsons, or conroy, not even there as far as i could see.
HArd to no what to make of it all...Mayo seem to have too few players willing or able to kick the football. ONly Dillion and MAcGarrity kicked the ball with regularity yesterday. C mort was very sharp but taken off at half time.
Thanks for that Bomber. We ll have to console ourselves with the fact we re 6 weeks from Sligo game and fellas not up to speed yet. Howley injury would be a bad blow if it s long term. Trying to get info on that now.
over all it was a match of very low intensity meath hardly missed a kick . probably a tribute to mayos defending.
one of the most remarkable differences brtween the teams was the size. man for man meath were bigger in every position. some of the like mark ward kevinn oreilly the 2 sheridans and the baldy midfeilder ? were giants . It didnt do them much good while mayo were playing with speed but as soon as the game slowed the big men took over. a lesson for mayo they have to be fitter and work harder than other teams due to their lack of bulk.
If meath kept that level of accuracy up they will be ALL-ireland contenders but im sure carlow wont be as generous
as i said on the mayo discussion thread. it was a match that nothing could be read into after half time as the substitutions removed any reminence intensity that was there. However we kicked 12 from 14 in the first half so that is encouraging. I would sat any lads doing exams were excused from playing hence the absentees.
Personally I don't read anything much into the results of challenges.
more interested in new tactics a team may try out, new positions etc. but it is alarming that we are still shipping goals big time, and big scores at that. If that continues any half decent team in the country is going to have a more than fighting chance against us. If the manager doesn't believe the personnel are there to stop the leaking he should change the tactcis.
How did Cunniffe play at number 6?
Any more challenges lined up?
Howley is rumoured to have a broken ankle.....it appears to be in bad shape.
Mayo played a challenge game the night before and were just shagged come the seconld half, also on reflection mayo tried a different tactic in the second half....aiming for the full forward alot...Austie didnt impress there.
Cunniffe was ok at six.....perhaps two small in stature and was caught out once or twice, when the centre forward went wandering.
Its not a rumour unfortunately. The extent of the damage has nt fully been established. A chipped bone or a hairline fracture most likely. Talking about 8 weeks at least.
who are the main contenders for centre back with howley out versus sligo?
A friend and i were trying to put a mayo defense together and we agreed that the certs were howley, heaney and higgins, now with howley out the mayo defense looks very unsettled.
Quote from: Bomber2312 on May 13, 2008, 10:28:51 AM
who are the main contenders for centre back with howley out versus sligo?
A friend and i were trying to put a mayo defense together and we agreed that the certs were howley, heaney and higgins, now with howley out the mayo defense looks very unsettled.
i'd say cunniffe Bomber or else they might play heaney and cente back
I would probably have gone with Heaney at 6 anyway with Howley at 5. Now I d go with Cunniffe, Heaney and Higgins. Pat Kelly and Gardiner for cover I suppose.
I think you'll see Gardiner at 10 or 12 Moysider, based on the early setup of the team during the league. Galvin and Dooher have revolutionised the role of the wing-forward, and it looked from the start of the league that Gardiner was to be Johnno's best guess as a Galvin or Dooher.
Someone was saying on the Mayo GAA Blog that Parsons ought to be given a run at 11, and have Harte and McGarrity in midfield. I wouldn't mind seeing that. I do still retain the hope that McDonald and O'Mahony will be able to patch things up though. It's still five weeks, if not more, 'til Sligo. That's enough time, surely, for the two men to bury the hatchet and think of the common good, surely?
Not good news at all. Howley was our best defender against Meath along with Keith Higgins. They've probably been our best 2 defenders all through the league as well.
As soon as he went down it looked serious, and myself and the lads that were with me all thought the ankle could be broken.
CHB is Cunniffe's best position, he was excellent there for the U-21s this year from what I hear (I couldn't get to their games). But he didn't convince there against Meath at all. I'd imagine his confidence is low anyway, seeing as he was moved to FB where he got a bit of a roasting from Sheridan before being taken off.
I'd go for Heaney at CHB flanked by Keith Higgins and Cunniffe (he did well on the wing when played there during the league).
The real question is who to play in the full back line. BJP, Conroy and Colm Boyle maybe. Aidan Higgins also an option. Whatever 3 are played there for the Sligo match are going to have us holding our breath anyway - hopefully we'll stumble across a combination that gels quickly, but I wouldn't be too convinced that will happen.
That's awful about Howley. F**k it anyway, just when we had a good half-back line coming together. He will be a loss, hopefully Cunniffe might step up to the mark now. I hope and pray our defence doesn't get any more injuries or else we could be frigged for the Sligo game.
ye feel very sorry for howley farrandeelin i really like him as a footballer strong agressive fair hopefully it he can be back soon ,but he wouldn't want to rush is specially with an ankle injury he would be a big loss for Knockmore as well. However it looks like the same auld story with the full back line. Did conroy play against laois last week?
Has Davy K burned his bridges with mayo altogether? I can see Mayo goin with, Higgins, Conroy, Nallen, Heaney, Cunniffe, Higgins -- losing howley is a massive loss.
gardiner is now a forward, he came on as a forward the last night against meath and has played there or midfiled for mayo this year.
Harte is a very frustrating footballer....like most mayo players first instinct is to solo, second is to hand pass, until we learn to distribute the ball quickly with the foot we will struggle, in the first half against meath MacGarrity and Dillion put on abit of a show with their foot passing...in the second though it was very rare to see an accurate foot pass
realistically with the suspect full back line Keith Higgins is going to have to go back in the corner. This is a real pity though as he is developing into a great wing back. I would like to see trevor mortimer back at wing back again with heaney and cuniffe making the half back line.
Quote from: Bomber2312 on May 13, 2008, 11:14:22 AM
Has Davy K burned his bridges with mayo altogether?
Quite a fall from grace - rumours that he had falling out with Johnno, but I've no idea if there's any truth in that
i thought someone said on here that he was taking a year out to enjoy himself
There's a great pic of Ronan McGarrity going up for a ball in the Mayo News today:
(http://www.mayonews.ie/images/stories/2008/05_MAY/130508_ricepic_390.jpg)
Quality. 8)
Why is the Meath lad grabbing him by the arse?
Quote from: ildanach on May 13, 2008, 01:00:08 PM
i thought someone said on here that he was taking a year out to enjoy himself
That's much closer to the mark ildanach unfortunately, I doubt we'll see him this year
Quote from: OirthearMhaigheo on May 13, 2008, 01:48:22 PM
Quote from: ildanach on May 13, 2008, 01:00:08 PM
i thought someone said on here that he was taking a year out to enjoy himself
That's much closer to the mark ildanach unfortunately, I doubt we'll see him this year
So playing for your county is not enjoyable? If thats his attitute let him belt away.
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on May 13, 2008, 10:57:19 AM
I think you'll see Gardiner at 10 or 12 Moysider, based on the early setup of the team during the league. Galvin and Dooher have revolutionised the role of the wing-forward, and it looked from the start of the league that Gardiner was to be Johnno's best guess as a Galvin or Dooher.
Someone was saying on the Mayo GAA Blog that Parsons ought to be given a run at 11, and have Harte and McGarrity in midfield. I wouldn't mind seeing that. I do still retain the hope that McDonald and O'Mahony will be able to patch things up though. It's still five weeks, if not more, 'til Sligo. That's enough time, surely, for the two men to bury the hatchet and think of the common good, surely?
Quote from: IolarCoisCuain on May 13, 2008, 10:57:19 AM
I think you'll see Gardiner at 10 or 12 Moysider, based on the early setup of the team during the league. Galvin and Dooher have revolutionised the role of the wing-forward, and it looked from the start of the league that Gardiner was to be Johnno's best guess as a Galvin or Dooher.
Someone was saying on the Mayo GAA Blog that Parsons ought to be given a run at 11, and have Harte and McGarrity in midfield. I wouldn't mind seeing that. I do still retain the hope that McDonald and O'Mahony will be able to patch things up though. It's still five weeks, if not more, 'til Sligo. That's enough time, surely, for the two men to bury the hatchet and think of the common good, surely?
Agree that Gardiner more likely to feature as a wing forward and the more I think about it the more I think he will start. I think hes part of management s picture.
I ve already said on here that Parson s could be a no 11 but its a bit late to be finding out for sure. Worringly we re far from a settled team unless management have one worked out in their heads. For arguements sake how close could any of us come to starting the 15 v Sligo - barring injuries. Not the team we d like to see but the mostly likely team based on the evidence so far? Why don t we try it for the craic?
As for McDonald I think any hope of seeing him this year is a forlorn one- unless you go watch Crossmolina play, which is always to be recommended. If Management wanted him he d be there. That Brehony interview showed
he wanted to be there. Don t think he would have given that interview if he felt there was a chance he was wanted. It was a bit of a bridge burner. Think Johnno will let it ride. He ll be happy enough with support he s got from heavy hitters in the media and the next 5 weeks will calm everything down. He ll be delighted to have put it to bed so long before the Sligo match. Only defeat later in the summer would stir things up a bit and depending when and how it happens Johnno could well be cuttin his stick by then anyway.
Quote from: Tubberman on May 06, 2008, 02:14:04 PM
Ever since the championship panel appeared in The Irish Times last Friday week, Ciaran McDonald was the major topic of discussion wherever Mayo GAA people gathered. In public houses, at matches and on internet discussion boards, the question was the same: 'What's the story with McDonald?'
'RedandGreenSniper' got the online ball rolling on www.gaaboard.com, noting that McDonald's omission appeared to signal the end of his inter-county career. "Thanks for the memories Ciaran," the contributor wrote. "You will always hold a place in the hearts of Mayo fans and, I'm sure, fans of football all over Ireland."
As of yesterday (Monday) afternoon, the thread which this post sparked had prompted over 200 replies and been viewed over 4,000 times. Variations on the same debate were also ongoing on the Hogan Stand, Mayo Fans and An Fear Rua websites.
As speculation mounted about why McDonald wasn't involved and whether he would return, 'IolarCoisCuain' urged caution, noting: "It's a long road yet, and there's no need for hullaballoo."
But a hullaballoo there most certainly was last Wednesday morning when the Irish Independent carried a rare interview with Ciaran McDonald. The Crossmolina clubman told Martin Breheny that it was not his choice that he was not involved with Mayo and that he was unhappy with John O'Mahony's handling of the matter.
The first many people knew of the interview was when they turned on Midwest Radio. Having opened his morning programme with a summary of McDonald's criticisms, presenter Tommy Marren interviewed John O'Mahony, who said there was no reason why McDonald couldn't play for Mayo again.
As phones hummed and text messages flew back and forth, online reaction was swift. 'Tubberman' suggested that neither manager nor player had 'handled the situation particularly well' and concluded: "JOM is really under the microscope now and has to deliver this year". 'Stephenite' was of the opinion that 'if a player wants to play the onus should be on him to stay in contact with the manager and let him know what his situation is', but 'the Deel Rover' disagreed, saying: "The onus is on the management to let the players know whether you ... are part of their plans or not".
Referring to the situation as 'a serious shambles', a poster called 'Barney' said the McDonald interview had 'really blown the cat amongst the pigeons'. Criticising contact by text, he added: "For me the problem begins and ends with this daft notion of a public announcement of a championship panel". 'Maradona' (presumably not the Argentinian Maradona) said that he was probably McDonald's 'biggest fan', but that the 'will he won't he' questions which had dogged Mayo teams in recent years went 'against collective team building'. The 'ideal scenario', he concluded, would be for both men to 'get together and sort out the issues'.
Perhaps the most unlikely scenario outlined on all the discussion boards was the 'McDonald for President' call by 'midLouth'. Mind you, stranger things have happened. After all, Saipan spawned a musical ...
[/quote]
see your now famous in mayo midlouth free drink wherever you go ;)
Moysider, my estimation for sligo game would be:
Clarke
Nallen
Conroy
Boyle
Heany
Cunniffe
Higgins
MacGarrity
Harte
Gardiner
Dillion
T Mort
C Mort
Austie
A Moran
its a funny thought but we have an attacking half back line and a defensive half forward line....d modern game eh?
jesus we don't have that many which one did we steal not that i remember nor my dad nor my grandfather ;) :P
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 13, 2008, 01:48:10 PM
Why is the Meath lad grabbing him by the arse?
He's a doctor, just checking to see if mcgarrity is fully over the cancer
Ah come ML if it wasnt for mayo players ye wouldnt have got yer last one!
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 13, 2008, 01:48:10 PM
Why is the Meath lad grabbing him by the arse?
I thought you were a rugby man AZ. He's obviously 'lifting' him. Strong fcuker to do it with one hand.
Quote from: Bomber2312 on May 13, 2008, 03:52:10 PM
Moysider, my estimation for sligo game would be:
Clarke
Nallen
Conroy
Boyle
Heany
Cunniffe
Higgins
MacGarrity
Harte
Gardiner
Dillion
T Mort
C Mort
Austie
A Moran
its a funny thought but we have an attacking half back line and a defensive half forward line....d modern game eh?
Can't see Parsons not making it, nor Aidan Higgins imho. I'm not sure where Gardiner is in the whole scheme of things at the moment.
The team I would hope/expect to see picked (with a few uncertainties) is
Clarke
A Higgins
Conroy
Nallen
Cunniffe
Heaney
K Higgins
McGarrity
Parsons
Harte
Dillon
Trevor
Conor
Austie
Andy.
The uncertanties, I think, are Nallen (Boyle being an option, or K Higgins to go back and someone like Pat Kelly or Trevor Mort to play wing back; Conroy (is Padden out of the reckoning like? He was only replaced because of injury and God knows whose name is on the number three jersey; and Harte (depending on Gardiner's form really)
I also think its fierce unlucky on Trevor Howley to pick up such an injury so close to championship. While we do have plenty of options in the half back line, he was beginning to put down a serious marker for long term residence at number six . . .
titter ye not.
i think cunniffe and AOM played themselves off the team last sunday both looked well off the pace. Gardiner brought a real bounce to the team . trevor may be living a little on rep at the moment but we know he has it in him time for him to show leadership
. CHB has alway been BJP best spot though he could play anywhere .after all wsnt he the man in possesion of the number 3 before he got injured!
Clarke
p kelly Conroy L omalley
Heaney BJP K Higgins
McGarrity Parsons
P gardiner Dillon Trevor
Conor B Moran Andy.
Ok, Rosnarun, Fair enough. If your right about Barry Moran replacing Austin for Sligo if will be some u- turn by management. Barry only made a fleeting appearance in League -as a wing forward! Not saying it wont happen or it would necessarily be a bad thing but would nt that be a strange way to build a team or is it just me? Feel sorry for Cunnife. A quality half back but maybe a year or two early for chb at senior yet. Should have been in the running for no 5 this year but instead they have probably destroyed the lad making him into something he s not. Would nt rule them out starting him at 2 v Sligo - Johnno does nt give up on an idea easily. My fear is that he ll be ruined and be gone completely in a year s time. Conor Moran was destroyed tryin to make a corner back out of him as well a few years ago. Likes of Cunnife and Keith Higgins are special players and come to attention at underage for their ability to carry and get forward not for their marking abilities.
Based on the teams Johnno has picked so far in the league, I would guess Johnno's team to line out against Sligo or London will be:
Clarke; Cuniffe, Padden, C Boyle; T-Mort, Heaney, K Higgins; McGarrity, Parsons; Gardiner, Dillon, Harte; C-Mort, Austin, A Moran.
what faith i have in o mahony is based on the probability that he has not shown a full hand yet . which is why im sure barry is for full forward as that was the last place he started in the last championship game for mayo. every county has an austin look at declan quill for kerry cpuple of years back nearly beat mayo on his own in the league come summer no where.
maybe cunniffe has a future as a mayo plaer but th has been very little evidence of it since that same game in derry last year but unlike moran Cunniffe has had a chance to play himself off the team.
i presume your joking when comparing him with keith higgins possibly mayos best player and a heading for an all star as soon mayo get a half decent run to Tom who's holding onto his jersey by the skin of his teeth
I presume you were refering to me just now Rosnsrun. I was nt joking or comparing really. Lets put it this way. Cuniffe has been an outstanding chb at u21 level for 3 years. Led the second half revival against Kerry in u21 semi final playing an agresssive attacking game.. But any time I ve seen him play senior this year he s been obviously shittin himself at corner back where he clearly is at sea.. Nothing about his play at corner back would suggest that he would be a good corner man. He s a 5,6 or 7, at this stage of his career anyway. If he s not good enough for senior there yet, fine, but no point in destroying him altogrether by asking him to do something he s not capable of doing - yet anyway. Higgins also suits an attacking wingback role and of course he is our best player at the moment. With Howley gone [ and latest news is that damage is probably worse than we first heard] losing Higgins would be to awful to contemplate. It s keep fingers crossed time with him too with playing both games and the way he plays means he ll get his share of wallops from bigger lads.He ll be more effective in the corner than Cunniffe or Boyle but the wing is his more natural position. However I would nt be confident he would be able for likes of Gooch, Bradley or Deveney if he had to go toe to toe on a marking job in full back line. I think putting Higgins in the corner also takes some of the dash from our game which is our trump card. Was nt comparing players just expressing opinion that players should not be asked to do job they re not cut out for. I rate Cunniffe highly but not in the role management have persevered with. There were reports of him moving to full back against Meath[ i know it was probably a 'follow your man' episode] but he would nt be considered for a full back spot at u21. It does nt add up. I think they could do worse now than have a look at Ger Cafferkey for 2 or 4. At least he s played there regular and seems to be having a decent run injury free.
Agree with virtually all you say there Moysider. Cunniffe would only get away with playing in the full-back line if there were two better players beside him to do the serious marking jobs and he was left on the weakest of the oppositions full-forward line - a Brian Sheehan or a Fiachra Breathnach type.
But that would be a waste when he has the ability to be a really good half-back. I know there's still loads in Heaney but looking to the future, we have a potential half-back line of Cunniffe, Howley and Higgins, none of whom are over 23. I just hope, like you, that we are not required to shunt one or more of them back into the full-back line.
Can't believe Cafferkey isn't in - JOM obviously mustn't rate him, but he's one for the future, so is Kevin McLoughlin. In time I think things might come together a bit better but I'd be afraid about our options for this year.
Either we get away with playing Nallen and Aidan Higgins beside Conroy or BJP or else we'll have to bring back Keith Higgins to the full-back line.
We are no further on from this time last year wondering about the fullback line. You'd think after all the chopping and changing that we could have gotten somebody. Or maybe all the chopping and changing is the problem, not allowing players growing into the position. McLoughlin is a year off the panel yet R&GS imo anyway. He's only 19. However, I do agree with you about Cafferkey. Johnno is under a lot of pressure to deliver something this year. And flooting around with the fullback line won't get us anything.
QuoteMcLoughlin is a year off the panel yet R&GS imo anyway
??
I don't quite follow, Farrandeelin. What's R&GS?
O’Mahony is certainly under fierce pressure to deliver something this year okay.
Indeed we expect big things every year, don’t we?
This year there is extra pressure because of the shafting of You Know Who.
I agree about all the chopping and changing about – it is time to allow players develop into positions. If all the switching and flooting about so far hasn’t made up his mind, there is very little time left to get the mix right.
Its clear we have an abundance of footballers, whom are excellent half backs:
Heaney, Howley, K Higgins, Pat Kelly, Liam O'Malley, Cunniffe and perhaps T Mort.
We are short of cover in the full back line, i agree that players cannot be played out of position....Liam O'Malley is too loose for corner back, he may make an appearance at centre back, maughan reckoned he was the natural successor to jimmy nallen there, opinions????.
Colm Boyle is near a definite for the sligo game in that he hsant really put a foot wrong, conroy will also prob start due to a decent league campaign, perhaps we reading too much into the fact he wasnt present on sunday, he i think is in exam mode and prob would have played otherwise.
So i reckon, its one corner back sport to fill and the the half back line. Basically picking three of the above contenders.
Nallen or A Higgins will get the job, half back line of Heany and K higgins on the wings with BJP, Cunniffe or Liam O'Malley at 6 otherwise if not K higgins will go back to the corner with Heaney, Liam O'Malley/BJP, Cunniffe.....or O'Mahoney could suprise us all and line A moran at centre back.
I attended nearly all the 21s campaign and Cafferkey was decent but i have this worry that he gambles alittle much for a full back, McLoughlin should have been on the team from the start, looked very composed versus kerry....one for the future!
Quote from: Lar Naparka on May 15, 2008, 10:40:38 AM
QuoteMcLoughlin is a year off the panel yet R&GS imo anyway
??
I don't quite follow, Farrandeelin. What's R&GS?
O'Mahony is certainly under fierce pressure to deliver something this year okay.
Indeed we expect big things every year, don't we?
This year there is extra pressure because of the shafting of You Know Who.
I agree about all the chopping and changing about – it is time to allow players develop into positions. If all the switching and flooting about so far hasn't made up his mind, there is very little time left to get the mix right.
R&GS = RedandGreenSniper
Sorry Lar, but Davitt Man has it cleared up (or should that be DM has it cleared up :P)
any talk of under age prowess really is a red herring after a player has started playing senior. a good under age career means you deserve a shot in the senior team but then you start with a clean sheet same as every one else. cunnuffe best game for mayo V deery was at corner back but as looked a disaster at CHB last sunday looked well out of his depth.
a bit pointless brining new names into the equation at this point and anyway cafferkey has not looked any thing like a senior player yet .
wheres kevin loughlin from ? what sort of player is he
Knockmore rosnarun. He is a very good player for the Knockmore team and will probably make the Mayo panel at least next year. Nice tidy player but he has a bit of filling up to do yet.
Quote from: rosnarun on May 15, 2008, 03:01:02 PM
any talk of under age prowess really is a red herring after a player has started playing senior. a good under age career means you deserve a shot in the senior team but then you start with a clean sheet same as every one else. cunnuffe best game for mayo V deery was at corner back but as looked a disaster at CHB last sunday looked well out of his depth.
a bit pointless brining new names into the equation at this point and anyway cafferkey has not looked any thing like a senior player yet .
wheres kevin loughlin from ? what sort of player is he
Myself I would nt have had Cuniffe as a starter this year anyway. My preferred hb line would have been Howley, Heaney and K Higgins. But I would nt have f**ked him around by trying to make him into a corner back, what was that about? You seem to think he s bunched and not up to it and my fear is that he ll be ruined for good. I would have seen him in the short term as cover and late impact sub for no. 5 mainly. I take your point about stepping up to senior but God help us if our better players are not being nurtured through to senior. Outstanding u21 v Kerry championship to Senior is not too big a leap. Guaranteed he d be doing it in other Counties.
I see a lot of Cafferkey and we ll just have to disagree on his quality. Thought he should have been in the panel and considered for no. 4. You say its pointless bringing in new names now but its also pointless continuing with things that are not working. We re limited enough for fb line without robbing the half back line to paper over the cracks that are there. With Howley out they have an opportunity to bring in and work with a lad that has a future in the full back line. Also you suggest they might be thinking of Barry Moran for ff. Not a new name but Cafferkey is hardly either and Barry Moran has hardly been a regular. Moran is a player we needed to have come through by now or soon anyway and I rate him very highly but they have nt played him ff since Celtic Park 9 months ago! Are they just goin to throw him in again? It might confuse the opposition but it was also evident last year that Conor and Andy Moran were confused by his presence as well and in one case unable and in the other more unwilling to come to terms with what he was trying to do. Surely if he is in their plans he needs to be properly integrated into the team in league and challenge games so the fellas he is playing with can establish some kind of understanding with him.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on May 15, 2008, 10:24:33 AM
We are no further on from this time last year wondering about the fullback line. You'd think after all the chopping and changing that we could have gotten somebody. Or maybe all the chopping and changing is the problem, not allowing players growing into the position. McLoughlin is a year off the panel yet R&GS imo anyway. He's only 19. However, I do agree with you about Cafferkey. Johnno is under a lot of pressure to deliver something this year. And flooting around with the fullback line won't get us anything.
I agree, I wasn't suggesting to bring him in. You could hardly go from being an Under 21 sub (rightly or wrongly) to a senior panellist. But I've seen him at close quarters over the past three years and I think he has all that it takes in terms of speed, tackling, reading of the game, attitude to go all the way. I agree with ya, he probably could do with filling out a bit but he's not one bit weak either.
But until we get the likes of him involved and until Cafferkey is considered good enough by JOM, our full-back line will be square pegs for round holes.
Only Aidan Higgins and Trevor Howley (injury notwithstanding) are as comfortable in the full-back line as the half-back line. After that the options are BJP - God knows what the poor lads best position is; Kieran Conroy, a midfielder; James Nallen, a centre-back past his best, by how much only time will tell; Colm Boyle, Tom Cunniffe and Keith Higgins - all attacking wing-backs. And then poor David Heaney . . . Its a tale of woe really. I'd just hope we can paper over the cracks.
To my mind, as I said earlier, Nallen and Aidan Higgins either side of Conroy or maybe BJP could be the best option. But you could draw up ten different realistic options and still be wrong . .
Lads, I believe Offaly beat Mayo in a challenge match last night in the Hyde. Any reports by any chance?
Some of ye are really critical about recent team selections, some say young players should be in, others say they shouldnt. A few observations:
1. Is it not clear that we are not just getting the players coming through of top inter-county standard? Ye talk of the likes of Cunniffe as if he should be wrapped up in cotton wool because he is such a good prospect! - my opinion is that the likes of him and cafferty stand out because we are so bereft at the moment. Both have potential to make the senior grade yes, but I have seen both players cleaned out on occassion also, so to suggest they are anything but good prospects is silly
2. Ye are critical of JOM moving Cunniffe about the place - well the majority of 'central' defenders come in to a senior team in the corner or wing in order to start the learning curve. Dont see anything wrong with that. Nallen started in the corner and worked his way to CHB.
3. There is a lot of mention of the great abundance of wing backs we have - but is the reason for this not that they are all more comfortable in a line where you can get away a bit more with defending and play a looser game?
4. We are seriously short of quality at the moment - management can only pick from whats available. Putting aside the potential some of our youngsters have, In my mind we only have 1-2 or potentially 3 players that any of the top 6 or so teams would really want or indeed consider putting in their team - Conor Mort and possibly Heaney, Higgins or Dillion. That is the fact unfortunately
Not true. Clarke, Howley, McGarrity, Trevor and Parsons are also good enough clearly.
my point being, say which one of the top 6 teams (say for arguments sake Kerry, Dublin, Cork, Tyrone, Armagh, Derry), would want any of the Mayo players in their team?
Youd hardly say those players would as most of them are not gaurentees on a struggeling Mayo team at the moment. You can argue either way, but the best team in the country would propably pick none, that is the reality
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 16, 2008, 09:25:18 AM
Lads, I believe Offaly beat Mayo in a challenge match last night in the Hyde. Any reports by any chance?
No word on this lads?
just talking to a lad there Az mayo lost by 6 well thats what he said
On the face of it, for what it's worth, that's a good result for Offaly. What sort of team did Mayo have out I wonder?
Quote from: Maradona on May 16, 2008, 10:42:51 AM
my point being, say which one of the top 6 teams (say for arguments sake Kerry, Dublin, Cork, Tyrone, Armagh, Derry), would want any of the Mayo players in their team?
Youd hardly say those players would as most of them are not gaurentees on a struggeling Mayo team at the moment. You can argue either way, but the best team in the country would propably pick none, that is the reality
The best team in the Country [ Kerry] would hardly want anybody from any other county either. McGarrity would be picked to partner O Shea imho. Could nt see any Dublin player make the Kerry team and maybe 2 from current Tyrone team. Lots of Mayo lads would make the Cork, Tyrone, Dublin Armagh and Derry teams.
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 16, 2008, 11:11:54 AM
On the face of it, for what it's worth, that's a good result for Offaly. What sort of team did Mayo have out I wonder?
Yeah, Mayo lost to Offaly. Did nt hear the team but heard ' there was some lads missing' . Whatever that means? I m sure they had 15 fellas from the panel togged.
i was told from midfield up was Mc Garritty, Parsons, Pat Harte, Alan Dillon, Aidan Kilcoyne, Conor Mort, Austie o' Malley and Moran he didn't tell me the backs :(
Cheers Deel.
That seems like a fairly strong front 8? Would it be close enough to championship forwards and midfield?
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 16, 2008, 11:34:21 AM
Cheers Deel.
That seems like a fairly strong front 8? Would it be close enough to championship forwards and midfield?
Wouldn't be too far away i'd say Az
Quote from: the Deel Rover on May 16, 2008, 11:41:31 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on May 16, 2008, 11:34:21 AM
Cheers Deel.
That seems like a fairly strong front 8? Would it be close enough to championship forwards and midfield?
Wouldn't be too far away i'd say Az
Trevor for Kilcoyne only obvious omission there, unless Trevor is redeployed at half back. Does nt appear to have been too many 'missing' so. Not like the backs are a settled unit. Still weeks to go yet though. Important thing is to get a few games in, try a few things and hope we dont pick up too many injuries.
Colm O'Rourke did an article in the Indo before the 2004 final. He dismissed Mayo's chances, saying, amongst other things, that not a single Mayo forward would be good enough to get a place in the Kerry attack.
I met him sometime later and I did a rear up. What about Supermac or maybe Conor Mortimer? What about them was the reply. He said Kerry had an entire team, where every player fitted into an overall. 15 man set up. Some Kerry lads might not be the best individual players in the country but they fitted well into the overall team. Kerry was a unit, whereas Mayo had 15 players.
I had to take the point back than but it still seems the same way 4 years later.
I fully accept that Johnno is doing his best to get a settled team out for the championships this year but apart from the goalie, midfield and the FB line I'd imagine all other positions are still waiting to be filled. Okay, a lot of other lads seem sure of a place but what about the positions they will fill?
In the backs, Nallen, Aiden Higgins and Heaney seem to be showing well but the three are all over the 30 mark. Could we expect the team to go far with 50% of the backs well into their thirties? It's high time to settle on a side, any side, and let them go about developing as a unit.
I know challenges have to be taken with a grain of salt but a 6 point and 7 point beating over the last few days is worrying.
The trend appears to be massive leakage in the back leaving too much for the forwards to do.
Sligo will be licking their lips at having a go at us but you cannot be too hopeful of the Nestor Cup landing in Castlebar this Summer.
Thats a fair way of putting it in fairness by O'Rourke - Never thought a lot of some of the Kerry backs and you would thing a lot of ours down the years would be as good, but despite never being spectacular, they never seem to be often caught out. They do play as a team, but for me the real diffecence is that they can all do the basics very well. That is a major problem with Mayo for some reason - we all know most of our senior players are not comfortable catching a ball over their heads, we all know many of them are not comfortable kicking the ball. You can see the same with a lot of our underage teams, so there is a serious problem there. I have a mate managing U16s at a high level in Mayo and he reckons some of the basic skills have never been thought properly and that they are having to start at a basic level in skills coaching at an age where it should be about conditioning. Personally I think generally the 'good' players at underage are often just left develop without coaching / improvement as they are seen as having 'natural' ability. In Mayo we are a big enough county to always have enough players coming through to be able to feild a reasonable team and this I believe will continue to hide the real problem.
Noticable at Colleges level that the better Galway players might not have as much 'flair' as some Mayo lads but they re better at the basics. Their hands are better and can pass off either hand can kickpass off either foot. Their decision making is better too and they do the right thing with the ball most of the time. Maybe it s to do with the type of player Mayo people expect to see. There s always been off the cuff players on Mayo teams as far back as I can remember. These are the fellas that stand out in trials probably and catch the eye.
There used to be a point of view in Connacht that a Roscommon team would need to be 5 points better than a Galway side to stand a chance of doing as well outside Connacht and a Mayo team would need to be 3 points better to do the same.
Furthermore, I heard this opinion from fans of all counties concerned. Back in the mid 60s Galway had a great side as we know.
Mayo had a brilliant team at that time. The likes of Jinking Joe Corcoran, John Morley and Joe Langan could bear comparison with any player in the land. Indeed there were many other superb players also.
However, Galway always seemed to have had that little bit of extra mental toughness or whatever it was to get past Mayo. With that great Galway side in decline, Mayo finally got the monkey off their backs in '67 but their own best days were over by then also.
Over the years since when Mayo have had good sides, Galway always seemed capable of hanging in and making up ground with their refusal to panic or commit major gaffes. I know Galway has their reverses over the years too but Mayo had to be clearly better to beat them.
Mayo sides have always had lads who try as hard ass any one else and that have had many class individuals but that self doubt was always there and still is. I was in Willie Joe's pub in Castlebar on the eve of the '98 final, the one where Mac cracked the ball off the crossbar in the closing stages.
I was introduced to several former players and all had concerns about the upcoming game. I heard the 3 point factor mentioned there too. The predictions came to pass alright. Between good luck and hard grafting, Galway seems to be always an ever-present danger.
I really don't know what can be done to change the attitude built up over generations but I do agree that there seems to be little or no consistency in underage coaching and the basics of blocking, kicking and catching are sadly lacking in many intercounty players.
Maybe this year will be different but I'd never bet the house on a derby match against Galway any time.
i'd stop worrying about birth certs lads, you pick the best team available regardless of age. Youth policies are not for senior inter county football, you're either good enough or you're not regardless of whether you're 18 or 36. experienced players do see things on the pitch better than younger players at times alot of managers tend to forget that like johnno has with mc donald and simply consign them to the dustbin too early
At the Knockmore v Crossmolina game earlier. Mac the outstanding player on the field. Got some great scores and as usual his athleticism and fitness were top drawer. I did nt see any Mayo management team but they may well have been there? It would nt have been a very comfortable environment for them though. Sean Feeney was there though. Surely what was plain to be seen was not lost on him. Of the younger players on view only Kevin McLoughlin looked really comfortable in the company of the old heroes. Tom Nallen handled Damien Munnelly comfortably enough. Kilcoyne was abject. Even the Knockmore faithful are sniggering about him now although he did nt get the abuse he got last time from some of them.
Met him a few years back when derry played yes in the league. thought he was a gent. Real shame that his class wont be on display this summer
They're still not listening, he is still the best forward playmaker in Mayo. Only in Mayo would this happen.
I do not expect much from Mayo anyway but he would have been very important in my team were I manager, even as a lad to throw on in a tight game to get scores and leave the passing to the other lads.
Some crack losing in croker by a point or two when the difference was watching at home in his jeans and t shirt.
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