Down Club Hurling & Football

Started by Lecale2, November 10, 2006, 12:06:55 AM

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manwithnoplan

Quote from: SticksandStones on May 12, 2022, 03:20:13 PM
From what I thought, i always would have thought Mooney as much more of a county man than a club man, from the impression I got anyway he seemed to care much more about Down GAA than rostrevor, so im rathered suprised that he would have walked from the county over not being able to play for Downpatrick. This may be the case indeed, but im still a tad suprised

Maybe missing another 2 club games was just too much, and RGU have had a few poor results so helping to keep his club in division 1 would be more appealing than a couple of games in a competition most players didn't want. You could maybe understand them being asked not to play next weekend, but not this weekend.

rosskarr

Quote from: Truth hurts on May 12, 2022, 02:43:22 PM
I think James is weeding out the bluffers, for Down to improve they need to create a culture of pride and not egos. A few lads think they are too good even though they have failed to perform. When you have a fall out with every manager you play for then you have to evaluate whether they are you are the root cause of the problem.
James hasn't weeded out the bluffers.Some players have walked out on him.Other than a few lightweights who were removed from the extended panel ongoing it's as you were.James should
have walked about three weeks ago when the discipline broke down.He showed weakness by coming
back.He has certainly gone down in a lot of people's estimation in his handling of the affairs. When he came back he should shown the road to the rule breakers.

Brick Tamlin

Fair amount of fellas on here who've obviously managed and coached at the highest level. All the solutions right here. Who'd have thunk

Too many steps

Quote from: manwithnoplan on May 12, 2022, 07:44:17 PM
Quote from: SticksandStones on May 12, 2022, 03:20:13 PM
From what I thought, i always would have thought Mooney as much more of a county man than a club man, from the impression I got anyway he seemed to care much more about Down GAA than rostrevor, so im rathered suprised that he would have walked from the county over not being able to play for Downpatrick. This may be the case indeed, but im still a tad suprised

Maybe missing another 2 club games was just too much, and RGU have had a few poor results so helping to keep his club in division 1 would be more appealing than a couple of games in a competition most players didn't want. You could maybe understand them being asked not to play next weekend, but not this weekend.

Down have a challenge match on Saturday apparently. Guess this is why county players have been asked not to play tomorrow.

Wildweasel74

Down better going with 30 players who want to play for Down and not disappear to America, Australia or drop if the panel. Derry went through 107 players in less than 10yrs, it was a joke. Down beat Derry in Newry 2yrs ago. Gallagher got rid of maybe 8/10 players I have thought good enough to start / on the panel. Due to either attitude or couldn't commit. Down gonna go the same way. Derry keep Slaughtneil on board to backbone the team, Kilcoo seem to they too good for the county team.

6th sam

Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 12, 2022, 10:48:06 PM
Down better going with 30 players who want to play for Down and not disappear to America, Australia or drop if the panel. Derry went through 107 players in less than 10yrs, it was a joke. Down beat Derry in Newry 2yrs ago. Gallagher got rid of maybe 8/10 players I have thought good enough to start / on the panel. Due to either attitude or couldn't commit. Down gonna go the same way. Derry keep Slaughtneil on board to backbone the team, Kilcoo seem to they too good for the county team.

Down are in a potentially strong position . Worst case scenario is they go to div 4.  Conor Laverty and his set up will look after emerging talent at u20. New coaching development pathway could be Dublinesque with GPO support in every club . Kilcoo's all-ireland success will hopefully convert to county spin-off over next couple of years( this usually happens with successful club teams). Ballykinlar due to start .
Importantly we will hopefully benefit from lowered expectations , allowing us to focus on development with mature realism . We are nowhere near a top football county for a variety of reasons. We are close to rock bottom . Let's get organised, get real and we have enough opportunities as listed above to be able to weed out those without the attitude required for the top. What have we got to lose anymore?
If players either can't or won't commit , move on with those that will ( no resentment towards those that can't/won't commit). There is no current Down player that is indispensable , and apart from Kilcoo , few are winners at present . Let's get behind a medium to long term plan, and sacrifice short term
Success to focus on getting our ethos right .

rosskarr

#37791
Quote from: 6th sam on May 12, 2022, 11:10:32 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 12, 2022, 10:48:06 PM
Down better going with 30 players who want to play for Down and not disappear to America, Australia or drop if the panel. Derry went through 107 players in less than 10yrs, it was a joke. Down beat Derry in Newry 2yrs ago. Gallagher got rid of maybe 8/10 players I have thought good enough to start / on the panel. Due to either attitude or couldn't commit. Down gonna go the same way. Derry keep Slaughtneil on board to backbone the team, Kilcoo seem to they too good for the county team.

Down are in a potentially strong position . Worst case scenario is they go to div 4.  Conor Laverty and his set up will look after emerging talent at u20. New coaching development pathway could be Dublinesque with GPO support in every club . Kilcoo's all-ireland success will hopefully convert to county spin-off over next couple of years( this usually happens with successful club teams). Ballykinlar due to start .
Importantly we will hopefully benefit from lowered expectations , allowing us to focus on development with mature realism . We are nowhere near a top football county for a variety of reasons. We are close to rock bottom . Let's get organised, get real and we have enough opportunities as listed above to be able to weed out those without the attitude required for the top. What have we got to lose anymore?
If players either can't or won't commit , move on with those that will ( no resentment towards those that can't/won't commit). There is no current Down player that is indispensable , and apart from Kilcoo , few are winners at present . Let's get behind a medium to long term plan, and sacrifice short term
Success to focus on getting our ethos right .
Let's get behind Conor & Karl in the revolution.On the subject of ethos- Conor is managing who this season for free?🤪

rafla ta se

#37792
Quote from: rosskarr on May 12, 2022, 11:52:44 PM
Quote from: 6th sam on May 12, 2022, 11:10:32 PM
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 12, 2022, 10:48:06 PM
Down better going with 30 players who want to play for Down and not disappear to America, Australia or drop if the panel. Derry went through 107 players in less than 10yrs, it was a joke. Down beat Derry in Newry 2yrs ago. Gallagher got rid of maybe 8/10 players I have thought good enough to start / on the panel. Due to either attitude or couldn't commit. Down gonna go the same way. Derry keep Slaughtneil on board to backbone the team, Kilcoo seem to they too good for the county team.

Down are in a potentially strong position . Worst case scenario is they go to div 4.  Conor Laverty and his set up will look after emerging talent at u20. New coaching development pathway could be Dublinesque with GPO support in every club . Kilcoo's all-ireland success will hopefully convert to county spin-off over next couple of years( this usually happens with successful club teams). Ballykinlar due to start .
Importantly we will hopefully benefit from lowered expectations , allowing us to focus on development with mature realism . We are nowhere near a top football county for a variety of reasons. We are close to rock bottom . Let's get organised, get real and we have enough opportunities as listed above to be able to weed out those without the attitude required for the top. What have we got to lose anymore?
If players either can't or won't commit , move on with those that will ( no resentment towards those that can't/won't commit). There is no current Down player that is indispensable , and apart from Kilcoo , few are winners at present . Let's get behind a medium to long term plan, and sacrifice short term
Success to focus on getting our ethos right .
Let's get behind Conor & Karl in the revolution.On the subject of ethos- Conor is managing who this season for free?🤪

::) 6thSam may have the answer re free managment

manwithnoplan

Quote from: Too many steps on May 12, 2022, 10:36:46 PM
Quote from: manwithnoplan on May 12, 2022, 07:44:17 PM
Quote from: SticksandStones on May 12, 2022, 03:20:13 PM
From what I thought, i always would have thought Mooney as much more of a county man than a club man, from the impression I got anyway he seemed to care much more about Down GAA than rostrevor, so im rathered suprised that he would have walked from the county over not being able to play for Downpatrick. This may be the case indeed, but im still a tad suprised

Maybe missing another 2 club games was just too much, and RGU have had a few poor results so helping to keep his club in division 1 would be more appealing than a couple of games in a competition most players didn't want. You could maybe understand them being asked not to play next weekend, but not this weekend.

Down have a challenge match on Saturday apparently. Guess this is why county players have been asked not to play tomorrow.

Ah right. Well then I suppose you could ask why they weren't allowed to play club and have the challenge game in a few days but I suppose that would present other problems with planning for the Tailteann Cup match

wobbller

#37794
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 12, 2022, 10:48:06 PM
Down better going with 30 players who want to play for Down and not disappear to America, Australia or drop if the panel. Derry went through 107 players in less than 10yrs, it was a joke. Down beat Derry in Newry 2yrs ago. Gallagher got rid of maybe 8/10 players I have thought good enough to start / on the panel. Due to either attitude or couldn't commit. Down gonna go the same way. Derry keep Slaughtneil on board to backbone the team, Kilcoo seem to they too good for the county team.
I think we're all up for building for the future but if we look back at the most recent plan prior to this,we know the results of that by our current situation.Who was in charge of implementing that and who is in charge of bringing this latest idea to fruition?The answer to this is critical as to the prospects of this plan succeeding.

Brick Tamlin

Taken from an article in Irish News - Jan 2016.

Quote.....the main focus for the Mourne county is ending the barren run they find themselves on at present. No Ulster senior football title in 22 years. No Ulster minor football title in 17 years (although there was an All-Ireland in between). Just three provincial U21 titles since the mid-1980s.

It is not a particularly healthy recent roll of honour. They know that themselves. They're reminded of it often enough. But over the past year-and-a-half, the building blocks for the restoration of Down's lofty reputation have been laid.

1991 All-Ireland winning captain Paddy O'Rourke was appointed last November to head a steering committee for the new Mourne Academy. By that stage, he had a year under him of working with the county's development squads. James McCartan, who only stepped away from the senior job at the end of the 2014 season, has already been tempted back in to try and boost Down's quest to return to the top table at minor level.

The likes of '94 captain DJ Kane, professor Niall Moyna (who acts as a consultant) and county development manager Conor O'Toole are also on the steering group: "Two years ago, we launched a consultative programme," says long-serving Down county secretary Seán Óg McAteer.

"We took in a wonderful man, David Passmore, a senior lecturer in DCU, whose background is Irish hockey. He's done a really in-depth report, having consulted widely with schools, clubs, former players, people who were interested in Down football.

"In the past, we've done four plans in hurling and never one in football. For a county like Down never to have looked at its football from Maurice Hayes' time..."

That was part of the problem. 'The Down Way' brought regular success from 1960 until the mid-90s, give or take an odd blip. But at present, Down are enduring their longest spell without senior success since the years prior to their 1959 Ulster title.

For Newry Mitchel's man McAteer, one of the keys to bringing the county back to the top table is expanding Gaelic games through the schools: "Currently, we're in 86 primary schools through a coaching programme. We'd really like to broaden that.

"We're in some integrated schools, but we'd really like to get into state schools as well. Not to shove anything down anybody's throat, but to let them sample Gaelic games. To actually just have taster sessions and tell them the story of what Down's about.

"You go somewhere and someone asks where you're from, you'll say county Derry, I'll say county Down. It's one thing that unites people. It isn't a badge of anything; it's where you're from. The people from Comber, Saintfield, Newtownards are as much a Down person as anyone from Newry or Downpatrick or Kilcoo.

"We've got something there that can be a brand that unites people. That's something we'd like to explore by telling our story through the communities and schools over the next few years."

The issues Down face are not unique. Other counties have similar problems. For Derry, it is the city. For Antrim, it's the middle of Belfast. Donegal have their struggles in Letterkenny.

Soccer and rugby, particularly the growth of the latter, continue to enjoy a duopoly on the youth's imagination. The bigger the population base, the wider the sporting pallet of the inhabitants.

Take the 2005 All-Ireland minor winning squad. Two "major population centres", as McAteer puts it, of Newry and Downpatrick provided precisely none of what was, at one stage, a 38-man squad.

In Newry, the Shamrocks and John Bosco are both in Division Three. John Mitchel's are in Division Four. And yet, out in the hinterlands, Ballyholland, Glenn, Saval and clubs like them thrive in the top flight.

"There's a problem there definitely, within Newry. There's a lot of work being done in all of those clubs at underage levels," McAteer added.

"We have to try as a county to allow that work to happen and to develop it at underage through the schools. We have to try and ensure there are as many people as possible in Newry playing Gaelic football and hurling as possible.

"We have to look at Newry and Downpatrick in particular, but there are other urban centres there too. You have Banbridge, Kilkeel, Warrenpoint, all growing towns. You have that area of St Paul's and Holywood and Newtownards and nobody from those population centres about county panels. That needs to change if we're going to be successful.

"This year, as part of James' work with the minors, we've set up coaching clinics in Belfast, which run on a weekly basis, targeting young players from around Bredagh, St Paul's, Carryduff, Drumaness, Darragh Cross and people from the schools in Belfast. It's not just our usual schools that need to be targeted; it's all the schools in the Belfast area. In all those schools, there's people playing Gaelic games, at home or wherever.

"We hope that project will come to fruition and we'll maybe get a few to county minor panels. We mightn't get anybody, but at least those boys are exposed to good quality coaching for 10 weeks and the opportunity to get onto a Down minor panel. We have to be creative. We are being imaginative. These things will take time to come."

A passionate McAteer also clarified comments he made at the recent Down convention. In his report, McAteer hit out at the media, suggesting the "ethos of the GAA... is not something of interest" to reporters who also cover soccer and rugby.

However, he told The Irish News earlier this week he respects that people have opinions and that they're entitled to offer them: "Last year, we were probably getting a bit of a kicking at times. I'm passionate about Down GAA, it's my life and my work," he said.

"But we have to respect that the people within The Irish News provide a vital outlet for the promotion of our games. We have to be positive about that as well. We saw the value of that when we advertised our club championship games in The Irish News this year and we saw our gates increase. We saw the number of people at our games increase because we positively marketed our games through The Irish News.

"It's a two-way street. We recognise the work that journalists do in promoting our games. It's vital that we're an open house for journalists. There's no room within Down for us to be a closed house. We have to respect that journalists have a job to do. We mightn't always agree with what they say, but we have to respect that people have opinions and that they're entitled to offer them."

Back to the job in hand and a determined McAteer sees high hopes for Down. The timeframe for Down success? Between seven and 10 years, according to the report produced by David Passmore.

If things go to plan, that is the timeframe inside which Down hope to be back competing for Ulster and All-Ireland titles regularly: "You will get to the top table at different stages in that time, but we need to be consistently there," said McAteer.

"You're not always going to win because there's only ever one team at each age group that will win. But we need to be consistently at the top table."


QuoteMourne County GAA Academy under the chairmanship of former All-Ireland winning captain Paddy O'Rourke. Other members of the Group include 1994 All-Ireland winning captain DJ Kane (Newry Shamrocks), Declan Mussen (Kilcoo), Dr Eddie Harney (Saul), Joe Tunney (Carryduff), James McCartan (Minor Manager), Conor O'Toole (County Development Manager), Tom Potter (Coaching Officer) and Professor Niall Moyna (DCU) who will act as a consultant/advisor to the group.

Id love someone to give an update on how all this is going roughly 6 years after this was all conceived.

wobbller

Quote from: Brick Tamlin on May 13, 2022, 11:28:00 AM
Taken from an article in Irish News - Jan 2016.

Quote.....the main focus for the Mourne county is ending the barren run they find themselves on at present. No Ulster senior football title in 22 years. No Ulster minor football title in 17 years (although there was an All-Ireland in between). Just three provincial U21 titles since the mid-1980s.

It is not a particularly healthy recent roll of honour. They know that themselves. They're reminded of it often enough. But over the past year-and-a-half, the building blocks for the restoration of Down's lofty reputation have been laid.

1991 All-Ireland winning captain Paddy O'Rourke was appointed last November to head a steering committee for the new Mourne Academy. By that stage, he had a year under him of working with the county's development squads. James McCartan, who only stepped away from the senior job at the end of the 2014 season, has already been tempted back in to try and boost Down's quest to return to the top table at minor level.

The likes of '94 captain DJ Kane, professor Niall Moyna (who acts as a consultant) and county development manager Conor O'Toole are also on the steering group: "Two years ago, we launched a consultative programme," says long-serving Down county secretary Seán Óg McAteer.

"We took in a wonderful man, David Passmore, a senior lecturer in DCU, whose background is Irish hockey. He's done a really in-depth report, having consulted widely with schools, clubs, former players, people who were interested in Down football.

"In the past, we've done four plans in hurling and never one in football. For a county like Down never to have looked at its football from Maurice Hayes' time..."

That was part of the problem. 'The Down Way' brought regular success from 1960 until the mid-90s, give or take an odd blip. But at present, Down are enduring their longest spell without senior success since the years prior to their 1959 Ulster title.

For Newry Mitchel's man McAteer, one of the keys to bringing the county back to the top table is expanding Gaelic games through the schools: "Currently, we're in 86 primary schools through a coaching programme. We'd really like to broaden that.

"We're in some integrated schools, but we'd really like to get into state schools as well. Not to shove anything down anybody's throat, but to let them sample Gaelic games. To actually just have taster sessions and tell them the story of what Down's about.

"You go somewhere and someone asks where you're from, you'll say county Derry, I'll say county Down. It's one thing that unites people. It isn't a badge of anything; it's where you're from. The people from Comber, Saintfield, Newtownards are as much a Down person as anyone from Newry or Downpatrick or Kilcoo.

"We've got something there that can be a brand that unites people. That's something we'd like to explore by telling our story through the communities and schools over the next few years."

The issues Down face are not unique. Other counties have similar problems. For Derry, it is the city. For Antrim, it's the middle of Belfast. Donegal have their struggles in Letterkenny.

Soccer and rugby, particularly the growth of the latter, continue to enjoy a duopoly on the youth's imagination. The bigger the population base, the wider the sporting pallet of the inhabitants.

Take the 2005 All-Ireland minor winning squad. Two "major population centres", as McAteer puts it, of Newry and Downpatrick provided precisely none of what was, at one stage, a 38-man squad.

In Newry, the Shamrocks and John Bosco are both in Division Three. John Mitchel's are in Division Four. And yet, out in the hinterlands, Ballyholland, Glenn, Saval and clubs like them thrive in the top flight.

"There's a problem there definitely, within Newry. There's a lot of work being done in all of those clubs at underage levels," McAteer added.

"We have to try as a county to allow that work to happen and to develop it at underage through the schools. We have to try and ensure there are as many people as possible in Newry playing Gaelic football and hurling as possible.

"We have to look at Newry and Downpatrick in particular, but there are other urban centres there too. You have Banbridge, Kilkeel, Warrenpoint, all growing towns. You have that area of St Paul's and Holywood and Newtownards and nobody from those population centres about county panels. That needs to change if we're going to be successful.

"This year, as part of James' work with the minors, we've set up coaching clinics in Belfast, which run on a weekly basis, targeting young players from around Bredagh, St Paul's, Carryduff, Drumaness, Darragh Cross and people from the schools in Belfast. It's not just our usual schools that need to be targeted; it's all the schools in the Belfast area. In all those schools, there's people playing Gaelic games, at home or wherever.

"We hope that project will come to fruition and we'll maybe get a few to county minor panels. We mightn't get anybody, but at least those boys are exposed to good quality coaching for 10 weeks and the opportunity to get onto a Down minor panel. We have to be creative. We are being imaginative. These things will take time to come."

A passionate McAteer also clarified comments he made at the recent Down convention. In his report, McAteer hit out at the media, suggesting the "ethos of the GAA... is not something of interest" to reporters who also cover soccer and rugby.

However, he told The Irish News earlier this week he respects that people have opinions and that they're entitled to offer them: "Last year, we were probably getting a bit of a kicking at times. I'm passionate about Down GAA, it's my life and my work," he said.

"But we have to respect that the people within The Irish News provide a vital outlet for the promotion of our games. We have to be positive about that as well. We saw the value of that when we advertised our club championship games in The Irish News this year and we saw our gates increase. We saw the number of people at our games increase because we positively marketed our games through The Irish News.

"It's a two-way street. We recognise the work that journalists do in promoting our games. It's vital that we're an open house for journalists. There's no room within Down for us to be a closed house. We have to respect that journalists have a job to do. We mightn't always agree with what they say, but we have to respect that people have opinions and that they're entitled to offer them."

Back to the job in hand and a determined McAteer sees high hopes for Down. The timeframe for Down success? Between seven and 10 years, according to the report produced by David Passmore.

If things go to plan, that is the timeframe inside which Down hope to be back competing for Ulster and All-Ireland titles regularly: "You will get to the top table at different stages in that time, but we need to be consistently there," said McAteer.

"You're not always going to win because there's only ever one team at each age group that will win. But we need to be consistently at the top table."


QuoteMourne County GAA Academy under the chairmanship of former All-Ireland winning captain Paddy O'Rourke. Other members of the Group include 1994 All-Ireland winning captain DJ Kane (Newry Shamrocks), Declan Mussen (Kilcoo), Dr Eddie Harney (Saul), Joe Tunney (Carryduff), James McCartan (Minor Manager), Conor O'Toole (County Development Manager), Tom Potter (Coaching Officer) and Professor Niall Moyna (DCU) who will act as a consultant/advisor to the group.

Id love someone to give an update on how all this is going roughly 6 years after this was all conceived.
My point exactly.

Truth hurts

I would be skeptical about these plans as they look good on powerpoint but implementing them is the problem and the one thing you need is money to get these done and that will be the issue.
Our number one focus should be getting Ballykinlar built.

Brick Tamlin

Accountability and transparency are huge factors.
Without them, there is no integrity and people lose confidence and have no faith in decision-makers and the structures they apparently uphold.
When you hear about task forces, steering committees, focus groups, think tanks etc it pretty much smells of bullshit, smoke and mirrors. And for a long time people in the county have been blinded by the bullshit and swallowed it whole.

A brush should be taken to that county board and the unelected figures in the background that use them as puppets roaded.
Jobs for the boys.


manwithnoplan

I believe county players are now available for clubs tonight, and the challenge game is cancelled.