Time for Joe to go??

[stibhan]

If Hitler was from Mullingar he might have become a priest after all.

I think if anyone had a more nuanced view of Irish history they might perhaps be a bit more offended by, say, John Mitchel - a nasty, nasty, racist - being the name of a GAA club. But of course, offence is only caused to people when they're told to be offended.

[muppet]

If Hitler was from Mullingar he might have become a priest after all.

I think if anyone had a more nuanced view of Irish history they might perhaps be a bit more offended by, say, John Mitchel - a nasty, nasty, racist - being the name of a GAA club. But of course, offence is only caused to people when they're told to be offended.

Or when their ignorance is reduced.

[Jinxy]

What if Hitler was from Mullingar?

I wouldn't be at all surprised.

There used be great battles between Mullingar Hitlers and Tyrellspass Stalins.
"C'mon the Joes!", the Tyrellspass crowd would roar.

[muppet]

What if Hitler was from Mullingar?

I wouldn't be at all surprised.

There used be great battles between Mullingar Hitlers and Tyrellspass Stalins.
"C'mon the Joes!", the Tyrellspass crowd would roar.

Would have been some craic to see the Mullingar Hitlers play the Shankill Butchers.

[Donnellys Hollow]

What if Hitler was from Mullingar?

I wouldn't be at all surprised.

There used be great battles between Mullingar Hitlers and Tyrellspass Stalins.
"C'mon the Joes!", the Tyrellspass crowd would roar.

The winners play Navan O'Mussolini's in the first round of the Leinster Championship.

[stibhan]

If Hitler was from Mullingar he might have become a priest after all.

I think if anyone had a more nuanced view of Irish history they might perhaps be a bit more offended by, say, John Mitchel - a nasty, nasty, racist - being the name of a GAA club. But of course, offence is only caused to people when they're told to be offended.

Or when their ignorance is reduced.

Who defines ignorance here? Are all of the 9 clubs who are named after John Mitchel, who predated the GAA, negligent for not changing the name of their club?

What about the Water Polo club named after Cathal Brugha in West Belfast? Is Water Polo a sectarian sport or again, are we only offended when we are told to be? Is it only okay to name a club after an Irish Republican if a) he killed people more than 50 years ago and b) it isn't a GAA club?

[glens abu]

I would have thought the Drogheda Cromwells would be big favourites for Sam

[muppet]

If Hitler was from Mullingar he might have become a priest after all.

I think if anyone had a more nuanced view of Irish history they might perhaps be a bit more offended by, say, John Mitchel - a nasty, nasty, racist - being the name of a GAA club. But of course, offence is only caused to people when they're told to be offended.

Or when their ignorance is reduced.

Who defines ignorance here? Are all of the 9 clubs who are named after John Mitchel, who predated the GAA, negligent for not changing the name of their club?

What about the Water Polo club named after Cathal Brugha in West Belfast? Is Water Polo a sectarian sport or again, are we only offended when we are told to be? Is it only okay to name a club after an Irish Republican if a) he killed people more than 50 years ago and b) it isn't a GAA club?

I dare say the vast majority of members of those clubs know little of John Mitchel. Would you define that as ignorance in this case?

[stibhan]

If Hitler was from Mullingar he might have become a priest after all.

I think if anyone had a more nuanced view of Irish history they might perhaps be a bit more offended by, say, John Mitchel - a nasty, nasty, racist - being the name of a GAA club. But of course, offence is only caused to people when they're told to be offended.

Or when their ignorance is reduced.

Who defines ignorance here? Are all of the 9 clubs who are named after John Mitchel, who predated the GAA, negligent for not changing the name of their club?

What about the Water Polo club named after Cathal Brugha in West Belfast? Is Water Polo a sectarian sport or again, are we only offended when we are told to be? Is it only okay to name a club after an Irish Republican if a) he killed people more than 50 years ago and b) it isn't a GAA club?

I dare say the vast majority of members of those clubs know little of John Mitchel. Would you define that as ignorance in this case?

'Ignorance' in the loosest sense, yes. Not as a character defect but as a lack of knowledge, probably brought on by the fact that they don't care.

It's important to recognise that in the case of Allister, Gregory Campbell, and Sammy Wilson being the torch-carriers who shine light on the GAA to their communities, they always do so selectively. They illuminate places that represent us in the worst light rather than show the complex social, cultural and political make up of the GAA.

[muppet]

If Hitler was from Mullingar he might have become a priest after all.

I think if anyone had a more nuanced view of Irish history they might perhaps be a bit more offended by, say, John Mitchel - a nasty, nasty, racist - being the name of a GAA club. But of course, offence is only caused to people when they're told to be offended.

Or when their ignorance is reduced.

Who defines ignorance here? Are all of the 9 clubs who are named after John Mitchel, who predated the GAA, negligent for not changing the name of their club?

What about the Water Polo club named after Cathal Brugha in West Belfast? Is Water Polo a sectarian sport or again, are we only offended when we are told to be? Is it only okay to name a club after an Irish Republican if a) he killed people more than 50 years ago and b) it isn't a GAA club?

I dare say the vast majority of members of those clubs know little of John Mitchel. Would you define that as ignorance in this case?

'Ignorance' in the loosest sense, yes. Not as a character defect but as a lack of knowledge, probably brought on by the fact that they don't care.

It's important to recognise that in the case of Allister, Gregory Campbell, and Sammy Wilson being the torch-carriers who shine light on the GAA to their communities, they always do so selectively. They illuminate places that represent us in the worst light rather than show the complex social, cultural and political make up of the GAA.

I don't think anyone has any doubts about that.

But i was more thinking of myself. I played for one of those Mitchels and know nothing about him at the time. I would say few members do even now and many would be uncomfortable if they did. Although he should really be judged in the context of the time. I would suggest he supported slavery simply because Britain had abolished it.

[theticklemister]

Ah Muppet that last line of yours was wrong.  John Mitchel was indeed a rascist amd nothing to do with Britains stance.

Incidentally there was a John Mitchel tournament recently in Claudy's John Mitchells where he was born for all the teams named after John Mitchell. Apparently Kilcoo were invited but declined.

[Wildweasel74]

No love for Sinn Fein but am, with Joe on this one, a club can name itself after whoever they want, it not us, the gaa or politician s to turn round and tell Kevin Lynchs in dungiven to change there name, this club was named 30yrs during the worst of the trouble and the hunger strikes,. Now everything all rosy in the water we expect the club to change their name which has won county championship under that name. Dont think so. theres a couple of place with the name cromwell about the north, can we demand they be changed? no dont think so cause that's silly to change a name that has been there yrs because we dont like it.

The orange order a supposed christian organization, has it in writing that a catholic cannot join, which is more sectarian, that or the gaa
one of the band`s at the protests in Belfast has the names of 4 uvf men (band members on their tops who were shot) i dont see unionists telling the news this is wrong.

before you bitch about the GAA and its rights and wrongs, get your own house in order then you can have the right to give criticism all you want

[muppet]

Ah Muppet that last line of yours was wrong.  John Mitchel was indeed a rascist amd nothing to do with Britains stance.

Incidentally there was a John Mitchel tournament recently in Claudy's John Mitchells where he was born for all the teams named after John Mitchell. Apparently Kilcoo were invited but declined.

I didn't say he wasn't a racist. Evidently he was.

Supporting slavery and racism are not necessarily the same thing. And it is just an opinion anyway. I have no evidence or sources to back it up.

[ONeill]

I'm probably on my own here but I'd prefer if clubs were solely sporting organisations with no political or religious overtones in their names. St Patrick's or St Mary's or whatever - why not just Crossmaglen Rangers or The Men of the Hill (from?).

They were probably named by priests anyway.

[stibhan]

If Hitler was from Mullingar he might have become a priest after all.

I think if anyone had a more nuanced view of Irish history they might perhaps be a bit more offended by, say, John Mitchel - a nasty, nasty, racist - being the name of a GAA club. But of course, offence is only caused to people when they're told to be offended.

Or when their ignorance is reduced.

Who defines ignorance here? Are all of the 9 clubs who are named after John Mitchel, who predated the GAA, negligent for not changing the name of their club?

What about the Water Polo club named after Cathal Brugha in West Belfast? Is Water Polo a sectarian sport or again, are we only offended when we are told to be? Is it only okay to name a club after an Irish Republican if a) he killed people more than 50 years ago and b) it isn't a GAA club?

I dare say the vast majority of members of those clubs know little of John Mitchel. Would you define that as ignorance in this case?

'Ignorance' in the loosest sense, yes. Not as a character defect but as a lack of knowledge, probably brought on by the fact that they don't care.

It's important to recognise that in the case of Allister, Gregory Campbell, and Sammy Wilson being the torch-carriers who shine light on the GAA to their communities, they always do so selectively. They illuminate places that represent us in the worst light rather than show the complex social, cultural and political make up of the GAA.

I don't think anyone has any doubts about that.

But i was more thinking of myself. I played for one of those Mitchels and know nothing about him at the time. I would say few members do even now and many would be uncomfortable if they did. Although he should really be judged in the context of the time. I would suggest he supported slavery simply because Britain had abolished it.

I'm not sure if that's true: he would have probably converted to Catholicism if that was the case. His politics were a lot more complex than just being a racist and I'm sure, as you say, he should be judged in the context of his time.

I don't think, anyway, that the name of a club is important. Most of the time, when people glorify or remember another individual, they elide certain aspects of their character: Irish history is full of people who have shadowy parts of their life, WB Yeats being a particularly prominent example (Sligo's people are hardly a quasi Fascist folk).

I don't think it's fair to either use the example of one club as a microcosm of the GAA or to bow to external pressures and force Kevin Lynch's club to change their name. However, should 40 or 50 years pass and Castlereagh Robinson's (presumably not named after Iris) win the Down/Antrim Championship I will be smiling wryly.