Time for Joe to go??

[ONeill]

Finally, if the state said that when you die they will seize your assets and donate every penny to worthy causes unless you opt out, would you? If so, why?

That's not even close to being similar to what's being discussed.

I'm not trying to say it is.....not everything has to be an argument. Just interested in people's reasons for not opting in to this.

[nrico2006]

Benny are you also saying that this new system would take away some of the feel good factor you get when you sign up to donate your organs. You know when you pass on you will possibly save another person's life.
Whereas with the opt-in system everybody is in the same boat and so it's no longer such a big deal.

It's nothing to do with feeling good about being a donor, or the removal of it with the proposed opt-out scheme.

There are people who are against blood transfusion. Remember the woman who died because she refused a transfusion as it was against her beliefs. There are people against organ transplants for the same reasons, so why should the government be making decisions about their bodies on their behalf? I'm sure most of us thought it was strange that she didn't get a transfusion that would have saved her life. And I'm sure most of us would react the same way if someone refused an organ transplant too. But people have a right to make that decision for themselves. And people should have the right to make the decision whether they want to be on a donor list too.

But how are the government making decisions on peoples behalf?  Everyone still has the choice if they want to be donors or not.

[orangeman]

Probably the wrong thread, but Joe was speaking at the coaching conference in Croke park this weekend. Like him or loathe him, he's not behind the door and isn't afraid to express an opinion -

The controversial pundit and former All-Ireland medal winner said the mentality to win by whatever means possible has rendered the game pointless, adding it is no longer worthwhile to teach juvenile players the basic skills of Gaelic football as they are permitted from expressing themselves by the emergence of cynical fouling.

Brolly, addressing the GAA Games Development Conference at Croke Park on Saturday, believes the position of U10 manager is the most important in GAA circles, calling on coaches to educate young players on the purity of the game and to advocate the skills displayed by both Kerry and Dublin in last year's classic All-Ireland SFC semi-final.

"The win at all costs mentality, and I have been involved at underage in our club for the past eight years, renders the game pointless," he fumed.

"One of your good lads is going through, he is dragged down. We tell a young lad to work on his bad foot so when he gets close to goal he has increased options, what's the point?

"The win at all costs mentality is pointless and the classic example is the 2011 All-Ireland semi-final between Dublin and Donegal. That day when 15 jerseys laboured soullessly, pulling down, pulling down, feigning injury.

"The crowd in the field of dreams booing, slow clapping and groaning at this travesty that the game was turning into. Jim McGuinness did us a favour. He proved that winning at all costs is to be avoided at all costs.

"Ciarán McKeever, the best corner-back I ever saw play football, said to me recently 'The problem is no one is actually learning the art of football any more'. They are not learning because they don't have to. The corner-forward is back with the wing-back helping him in every game'."

Pointing to Tyrone's approach in last summer's championship, Brolly said midfielder Seán Cavanagh was talking "through his arse" when commenting that such a style was necessary in a results driven business.

"We fall into the trap of sometimes believing that myth. The reason we fall into it is understandable. We think that winning is everything because we confuse it with the entirely healthy idea that the purpose of games is to try to win. If you win dishonourably, your own group will celebrate but no one else cares. The point of the game is boys and girls fulfilling themselves, throwing themselves into games, seeing where that takes them, taking risks, enjoying the skills of the game, expressing themselves. Is Joe Canning a loser because he hasn't won an All-Ireland? It is totally ridiculous nonsense. This philosophy is the main attraction in the GAA. Losing is worthless and undeserving of our respect. It is of course a totally dishonourable creed.

"Enda Gormley, my good friend and an absolutely obsessed coach, was on a fact-finding mission a couple of years ago. He went to Kerry to see how they do business down there. He went with Ger Lynch who was taking the U12's in Valentia Island. Enda said it was amazing. He said the first five minutes they were working on the flick pick-up, with both feet I might add. Ger Lynch said to him: 'While ye are doing the blanket defence up north we are doing the flick pick-up'. Who do you think is enjoying it more?"

Brolly claimed attendances at adult games in Derry have fallen because of blanket defences, cynical fouling and a general unwillingness amongst teams to adopt an open, free-flowing approach.

Fed-up with such negativity, spectators, he said, had turned to underage matches to receive value for money.

Moreover, he backed the new rules introduced by the FRC and is optimistic the game can be restored to its former glory.

"The FRC is serving to rid the game of cynical fouling and its Siamese twin — winning at all costs. We know it is a damaging ethos. It is not good. Nobody likes it. Gaelic football tactics seem to have been set in stone. Build up a lead, then hold it over the last 15 minutes. Pull the man down, all the things we have seen. Donegal were good at it. Tyrone were great at it. Mayo, the first two years under James Horan, did it.

"Jim Gavin said publicly last year and this is so important to all coaches that such a style he wouldn't allow. It would be man-on-man, sink or swim.

"It empowers players to look after themselves. They are not looking for others to help them. They are not looking for blanket defenders.

"The aim of these new rules is to free the game up so that the competitive spirit will work and games will be beautiful again, the way we need them to be."
© Irish Examiner Ltd. All rights reserved

[DuffleKing]

Horseshit in almost every line of that from Joe

[whitey]

Jim Gavin me arse.....obviously Joe didnt watch the last 10 mins of the AIF (and I would have expected and encouraged Mayo to do the same if they were protecting a lead)

[Up The Middle]

Probably the wrong thread, but Joe was speaking at the coaching conference in Croke park this weekend. Like him or loathe him, he's not behind the door and isn't afraid to express an opinion -

The controversial pundit and former All-Ireland medal winner said the mentality to win by whatever means possible has rendered the game pointless, adding it is no longer worthwhile to teach juvenile players the basic skills of Gaelic football as they are permitted from expressing themselves by the emergence of cynical fouling.

Brolly, addressing the GAA Games Development Conference at Croke Park on Saturday, believes the position of U10 manager is the most important in GAA circles, calling on coaches to educate young players on the purity of the game and to advocate the skills displayed by both Kerry and Dublin in last year's classic All-Ireland SFC semi-final.

"The win at all costs mentality, and I have been involved at underage in our club for the past eight years, renders the game pointless," he fumed.

"One of your good lads is going through, he is dragged down. We tell a young lad to work on his bad foot so when he gets close to goal he has increased options, what's the point?

"The win at all costs mentality is pointless and the classic example is the 2011 All-Ireland semi-final between Dublin and Donegal. That day when 15 jerseys laboured soullessly, pulling down, pulling down, feigning injury.

"The crowd in the field of dreams booing, slow clapping and groaning at this travesty that the game was turning into. Jim McGuinness did us a favour. He proved that winning at all costs is to be avoided at all costs.

"Ciarán McKeever, the best corner-back I ever saw play football, said to me recently 'The problem is no one is actually learning the art of football any more'. They are not learning because they don't have to. The corner-forward is back with the wing-back helping him in every game'."

Pointing to Tyrone's approach in last summer's championship, Brolly said midfielder Seán Cavanagh was talking "through his arse" when commenting that such a style was necessary in a results driven business.

"We fall into the trap of sometimes believing that myth. The reason we fall into it is understandable. We think that winning is everything because we confuse it with the entirely healthy idea that the purpose of games is to try to win. If you win dishonourably, your own group will celebrate but no one else cares. The point of the game is boys and girls fulfilling themselves, throwing themselves into games, seeing where that takes them, taking risks, enjoying the skills of the game, expressing themselves. Is Joe Canning a loser because he hasn't won an All-Ireland? It is totally ridiculous nonsense. This philosophy is the main attraction in the GAA. Losing is worthless and undeserving of our respect. It is of course a totally dishonourable creed.

"Enda Gormley, my good friend and an absolutely obsessed coach, was on a fact-finding mission a couple of years ago. He went to Kerry to see how they do business down there. He went with Ger Lynch who was taking the U12's in Valentia Island. Enda said it was amazing. He said the first five minutes they were working on the flick pick-up, with both feet I might add. Ger Lynch said to him: 'While ye are doing the blanket defence up north we are doing the flick pick-up'. Who do you think is enjoying it more?"

Brolly claimed attendances at adult games in Derry have fallen because of blanket defences, cynical fouling and a general unwillingness amongst teams to adopt an open, free-flowing approach.

Fed-up with such negativity, spectators, he said, had turned to underage matches to receive value for money.

Moreover, he backed the new rules introduced by the FRC and is optimistic the game can be restored to its former glory.

"The FRC is serving to rid the game of cynical fouling and its Siamese twin — winning at all costs. We know it is a damaging ethos. It is not good. Nobody likes it. Gaelic football tactics seem to have been set in stone. Build up a lead, then hold it over the last 15 minutes. Pull the man down, all the things we have seen. Donegal were good at it. Tyrone were great at it. Mayo, the first two years under James Horan, did it.

"Jim Gavin said publicly last year and this is so important to all coaches that such a style he wouldn't allow. It would be man-on-man, sink or swim.

"It empowers players to look after themselves. They are not looking for others to help them. They are not looking for blanket defenders.

"The aim of these new rules is to free the game up so that the competitive spirit will work and games will be beautiful again, the way we need them to be."
© Irish Examiner Ltd. All rights reserved

Easy to say when you have an All Ireland medal, bet Joe Canning would carry the head of his own Mrs with a hurl if it would get him an all Ireland medal. Joe is full  of shite as usual he plays to whatever crowd he is spouting too.

[OakleafCounty]

I don't often agree with Joe but most of that article was on the money. Though it will take radical change to make intercounty football a "beautiful game" again. Two things I would do is decrease the amount of subs back to three and make it a 13 a side game. Those two changes would make it a hell of a lot harder for managers and players to employ and implement negative tactics.

[theticklemister]

I don't often agree with Joe but most of that article was on the money. Though it will take radical change to make intercounty football a "beautiful game" again. Two things I would do is decrease the amount of subs back to three and make it a 13 a side game. Those two changes would make it a hell of a lot harder for managers and players to employ and implement negative tactics.

So 16 players , at max; gets a game.............

[BennyHarp]

I don't often agree with Joe but most of that article was on the money. Though it will take radical change to make intercounty football a "beautiful game" again. Two things I would do is decrease the amount of subs back to three and make it a 13 a side game. Those two changes would make it a hell of a lot harder for managers and players to employ and implement negative tactics.

Throw in a few black cards and we can play 9 a side. Maybe we should scrap gaelic football altogether and come up with a different game that makes everyone happy.

Joe is really good in his analysis at creating dumbed down stereotypes - So at U10, Kerry coach flicking the ball up while in Ulster we are coaching the blanket defence, pure nonsense! Any analysis by Joe is to be taken with a huge pinch of salt.

[Fuzzman]

Joe was a corner forward who loved taking his man on and scoring nice points & goals.
Like most forwards his main focus is on getting reward for skill and when you beat a man then you shouldn't be pulled down just as you're about to shoot.
As well as this, he's now at the stage where he's teaching his kids the game and so he wants to see it as pure as possible. No cheating or foul play but reward for the best players. I can see his point and in a way I agree with him but as someone said this is the ideal scenario. In Ulster our game has always been that bit tougher than down the country and in the past 10 years with more colleges doing sports degrees there has been more focus on the football science and how can you improve your team to win outside of raw skill. This has made our senior county teams much more focused on fitness, strength and tactics and so we saw Donegal bring all that to a whole new level with Tyrone & Armagh doing similar in the 2000's.

Maybe its cos it's far away but n Ulster we often tended to think Kerry football back in the 70's & 80's was so pure and they love to paint that image of it themselves. However if you ask Cork or the Dubs during those decades and you'll get a very painted picture. Kerry have shown over the years they can play both nice attacking football but they can also mix it with the cynical stuff as well. Anyone who has not witnessed that need to watch a few more games.

Fair play to Dublin last year as for most of the year they did play a much more open, fast, entertaining brand of football (like Tyrone did in 2005 in my biased eyes). I think most of us were glad to see that as Donegal, Tyrone and Mayo looked like it was going to be another year of defensive, negative football with possession being king again. Hopefully the black card will help teams to take the shackles off and return to a more direct kicking style of football were the win at all costs belief does change for the better.
In my eyes Brolly has a point but it's easy for someone in his position to say that whereas if Derry were in the top 5 teams I wonder would he be so disgusted to see such style of play if they were getting to AI finals and semi finals?
I think the Black cards will do their job with ridding most of the cynical tackles but if Derry are beating Tyrone in this years AI final and Sean Cavanagh is through on goal with 2 mins left I wonder will Joe be shouting pull him down. I trust not. It would be better for his sons NOT to see Derry play that way and for them to lose the All Ireland than for them to win cheating like that.

[OakleafCounty]

I don't often agree with Joe but most of that article was on the money. Though it will take radical change to make intercounty football a "beautiful game" again. Two things I would do is decrease the amount of subs back to three and make it a 13 a side game. Those two changes would make it a hell of a lot harder for managers and players to employ and implement negative tactics.

So 16 players , at max; gets a game.............

Yep at intercounty level only. I'd keep club at 15 a side. It would allow ball skills to come to the fore more, especially kick passing.

[Crete Boom]

Fair play to Dublin last year as for most of the year they did play a much more open, fast, entertaining brand of football (like Tyrone did in 2005 in my biased eyes). I think most of us were glad to see that as Donegal, Tyrone and Mayo looked like it was going to be another year of defensive, negative football with possession being king again.

In 2003 I thought Tyrone played some of the best free flowing football I had seen apart form the semi against Kerry and with the final being against Ulster rivals Armagh it was always going to be a physical defensive struggle.Also the 2008 All Ireland final against Kerry was a super game of football as was the quarter final v Dublin. I would agree too that 2005 that team at it's peak played open football especially in the final against Kerry.

I do think you are being a bit harsh on my own county though who were always accused of being to naive because of our traditional approach to how we played football. We played some great open football in 2013 and I can't think of a championship game where we were overly negative or cynical. Yeah in the second half of the the Dubs semi in 2012 we were as cynical as any of the accused Ulster counties but you can't take that one game and say we play defensive cynical football regularly. It would be like tarring the Dubs 2013 season with the same brush just because the went into a defensive gameplan after the first 20 mins in the All Ireland final!!

Mayo may lack the mental strength to dig it out in the white hot heat of the All Ireland final , we may lack a consistent top score getting inside forward , we may be a very physical aggressive team in the tackle but to say we are overly defensive and cynical is a bit unfair in my (albeit biased) opinion.

[Fuzzman]

Yeah as I typed Mayo I kinda thought twice about it but I think with the influence of Donegal in 2011 & 2102 I felt Mayo, Dublin and Tyrone were trying to counteract their play by playing the same way a bit. In fairness ye weren't very defensive last year but I think Moran has added that steeliness to ye that ye were missing for years.

[rrhf]

I never read such rubbish in all my life. Dublin last year produced the most cynical display of football I have ever seen in an all Ireland final. Capped by mc menamens boot throwing shame. Even gain knew his cover was blown with his disproportionate reaction to the hacks after. Brolly good Craic but a real shit stirrer given the platform and in what role was he there again. Brolly is a likeable  fool but don't take him too seriously lads. Next week the tune will play differently.

[T Fearon]

I see Joe's immediate family don't take any defamation of themselves lying down.