Rail strike, RMT & Mick Lynch appreciation

Started by Joeythelips, June 22, 2022, 01:48:52 PM

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Franko

Quote from: Hereiam on July 27, 2022, 09:36:39 PM
The bin men of Mid Ulster council are currently on a 4 week strike which started this week.
The council have just started using the new fleet of the new fancy side lifting lorries so only one man is needed to do the job instead of the 2.
The driver doesn't have to get out of the lorry and there is no manual labour whatsoever, the job has been made easier and they are looking more money.

If your employer lands beside you tomorrow and says he/she has got some new device that will make your job easier - but because of this you will now have to accept a de facto real terms pay cut... would you accept that?

Because if you would you're a right pushover

Milltown Row2

Technology is changing all the time and jobs will become easier to do with less manpower..

I was speaking to the shop assistant the other day and the place has brought in 4 self scanning machines, I was curious to know if they had let people go as they don't need to really serve people anymore, nope, gives them more time to stack shelves and do all the other crap they had to do on top of serving..

Be difficult enough to lose your job for the council I'm sure with that binman job they'll shift him to another sector within the council

Will we see a lot of places (public sector) going on strike action? seems to be a trend
None of us are getting out of here alive, so please stop treating yourself like an after thought. Ea

bennydorano

Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2022, 10:49:50 AM
Technology is changing all the time and jobs will become easier to do with less manpower..

I was speaking to the shop assistant the other day and the place has brought in 4 self scanning machines, I was curious to know if they had let people go as they don't need to really serve people anymore, nope, gives them more time to stack shelves and do all the other crap they had to do on top of serving..

Be difficult enough to lose your job for the council I'm sure with that binman job they'll shift him to another sector within the council

Will we see a lot of places (public sector) going on strike action? seems to be a trend
I don't buy the Retail example for a second, the staff that were working on tills are redeployed to other duties surely but when ANY member of staff leaves down the line they are not replaced and the 2.5 till operator staff that was built into overall staff compliment disappears over time and the shop eventually operates with 2.5 fewer people. Self scanners are & will do away with jobs, may take a bit of time but it's a long term play. If I was a small business owner I'd call it progress but if I was a TU Rep I wouldn't.

Public Sector strikes can be headed off with decent pay rises, I doubt anyone is genuinely expecting an 8-10% pay rise but Government has to meet the Public Sector half way in the current circumstances.

StephenC

Quote from: bennydorano on July 28, 2022, 03:28:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2022, 10:49:50 AM
Technology is changing all the time and jobs will become easier to do with less manpower..

I was speaking to the shop assistant the other day and the place has brought in 4 self scanning machines, I was curious to know if they had let people go as they don't need to really serve people anymore, nope, gives them more time to stack shelves and do all the other crap they had to do on top of serving..

Be difficult enough to lose your job for the council I'm sure with that binman job they'll shift him to another sector within the council

Will we see a lot of places (public sector) going on strike action? seems to be a trend
I don't buy the Retail example for a second, the staff that were working on tills are redeployed to other duties surely but when ANY member of staff leaves down the line they are not replaced and the 2.5 till operator staff that was built into overall staff compliment disappears over time and the shop eventually operates with 2.5 fewer people. Self scanners are & will do away with jobs, may take a bit of time but it's a long term play. If I was a small business owner I'd call it progress but if I was a TU Rep I wouldn't.

Public Sector strikes can be headed off with decent pay rises, I doubt anyone is genuinely expecting an 8-10% pay rise but Government has to meet the Public Sector half way in the current circumstances.

It's not the government who pays for these pay increases. It's non PS tax payers who do. More money for the PS means less money for private sector workers.

Franko

Quote from: StephenC on July 28, 2022, 04:29:54 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 28, 2022, 03:28:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2022, 10:49:50 AM
Technology is changing all the time and jobs will become easier to do with less manpower..

I was speaking to the shop assistant the other day and the place has brought in 4 self scanning machines, I was curious to know if they had let people go as they don't need to really serve people anymore, nope, gives them more time to stack shelves and do all the other crap they had to do on top of serving..

Be difficult enough to lose your job for the council I'm sure with that binman job they'll shift him to another sector within the council

Will we see a lot of places (public sector) going on strike action? seems to be a trend
I don't buy the Retail example for a second, the staff that were working on tills are redeployed to other duties surely but when ANY member of staff leaves down the line they are not replaced and the 2.5 till operator staff that was built into overall staff compliment disappears over time and the shop eventually operates with 2.5 fewer people. Self scanners are & will do away with jobs, may take a bit of time but it's a long term play. If I was a small business owner I'd call it progress but if I was a TU Rep I wouldn't.

Public Sector strikes can be headed off with decent pay rises, I doubt anyone is genuinely expecting an 8-10% pay rise but Government has to meet the Public Sector half way in the current circumstances.

It's not the government who pays for these pay increases. It's non PS tax payers who do. More money for the PS means less money for private sector workers.

Takes us back the same old argument though

For the UK anyway - there's always a few billions under the mattress when some middle eastern country needs bombed or we need another couple of nuclear submarines

Listen to David McWilliams on this stuff - the Thatcherite line that a government budget and a home budget require handling in the same way is a myth

tonto1888

Quote from: RedHand88 on July 14, 2022, 08:47:16 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on July 14, 2022, 01:58:58 PM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 14, 2022, 01:43:01 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/rail-strike-27-july-network-trains-b2122302.html?amp

Rejecting a 4% pay rise backdated to January may cost them alot of support...

With inflation hitting 10%, why would they?

How many people get anywhere close to a 10% payrise this year?

HMRC got a 13% payrise recently

Franko

#66
Quote from: StephenC on July 28, 2022, 04:29:54 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 28, 2022, 03:28:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2022, 10:49:50 AM
Technology is changing all the time and jobs will become easier to do with less manpower..

I was speaking to the shop assistant the other day and the place has brought in 4 self scanning machines, I was curious to know if they had let people go as they don't need to really serve people anymore, nope, gives them more time to stack shelves and do all the other crap they had to do on top of serving..

Be difficult enough to lose your job for the council I'm sure with that binman job they'll shift him to another sector within the council

Will we see a lot of places (public sector) going on strike action? seems to be a trend
I don't buy the Retail example for a second, the staff that were working on tills are redeployed to other duties surely but when ANY member of staff leaves down the line they are not replaced and the 2.5 till operator staff that was built into overall staff compliment disappears over time and the shop eventually operates with 2.5 fewer people. Self scanners are & will do away with jobs, may take a bit of time but it's a long term play. If I was a small business owner I'd call it progress but if I was a TU Rep I wouldn't.

Public Sector strikes can be headed off with decent pay rises, I doubt anyone is genuinely expecting an 8-10% pay rise but Government has to meet the Public Sector half way in the current circumstances.

It's not the government who pays for these pay increases. It's non PS tax payers who do. More money for the PS means less money for private sector workers.

Also - a point of order

The railways (this bit of them anyway) are no longer in public ownership

So the strikes that this thread refers to specifically are not by public sector workers

bennydorano

Quote from: StephenC on July 28, 2022, 04:29:54 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 28, 2022, 03:28:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2022, 10:49:50 AM
Technology is changing all the time and jobs will become easier to do with less manpower..

I was speaking to the shop assistant the other day and the place has brought in 4 self scanning machines, I was curious to know if they had let people go as they don't need to really serve people anymore, nope, gives them more time to stack shelves and do all the other crap they had to do on top of serving..

Be difficult enough to lose your job for the council I'm sure with that binman job they'll shift him to another sector within the council

Will we see a lot of places (public sector) going on strike action? seems to be a trend
I don't buy the Retail example for a second, the staff that were working on tills are redeployed to other duties surely but when ANY member of staff leaves down the line they are not replaced and the 2.5 till operator staff that was built into overall staff compliment disappears over time and the shop eventually operates with 2.5 fewer people. Self scanners are & will do away with jobs, may take a bit of time but it's a long term play. If I was a small business owner I'd call it progress but if I was a TU Rep I wouldn't.

Public Sector strikes can be headed off with decent pay rises, I doubt anyone is genuinely expecting an 8-10% pay rise but Government has to meet the Public Sector half way in the current circumstances.

It's not the government who pays for these pay increases. It's non PS tax payers who do. More money for the PS means less money for private sector workers.
This post makes little or no sense. Firstly all Public Sector workers are Tax Payers, Tax payers money is managed by the Government, so it's generally their call on pay awards. Private Sector workers are not paid by the Government.

seafoid

Quote from: Main Street on July 28, 2022, 12:38:11 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 14, 2022, 01:43:01 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/rail-strike-27-july-network-trains-b2122302.html?amp

Rejecting a 4% pay rise backdated to January may cost them alot of support...
Lose support of a lot of which people and what exactly are you basing that on?
I do accept that supposed neutrals such as  BBC are overly focused on the negative side effects of rail disruptions, applying responsibility for such effects onto Mad Mike  and not onto the various rail bosses and the various tory warts and tumors  who refuse to negotiate a deal with the Unions.
I should add the Labour party are about as effective as a fleabag.
Starmer is a neoliberal. He sacked shadow Transport   Minister Sam Tarry for joining a picket about rail safety .
The UK is in crisis. An Tuaisceart doesn't even have a Parliament that's open
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

StephenC

Quote from: bennydorano on July 28, 2022, 06:25:07 PM
Quote from: StephenC on July 28, 2022, 04:29:54 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 28, 2022, 03:28:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2022, 10:49:50 AM
Technology is changing all the time and jobs will become easier to do with less manpower..

I was speaking to the shop assistant the other day and the place has brought in 4 self scanning machines, I was curious to know if they had let people go as they don't need to really serve people anymore, nope, gives them more time to stack shelves and do all the other crap they had to do on top of serving..

Be difficult enough to lose your job for the council I'm sure with that binman job they'll shift him to another sector within the council

Will we see a lot of places (public sector) going on strike action? seems to be a trend
I don't buy the Retail example for a second, the staff that were working on tills are redeployed to other duties surely but when ANY member of staff leaves down the line they are not replaced and the 2.5 till operator staff that was built into overall staff compliment disappears over time and the shop eventually operates with 2.5 fewer people. Self scanners are & will do away with jobs, may take a bit of time but it's a long term play. If I was a small business owner I'd call it progress but if I was a TU Rep I wouldn't.

Public Sector strikes can be headed off with decent pay rises, I doubt anyone is genuinely expecting an 8-10% pay rise but Government has to meet the Public Sector half way in the current circumstances.

It's not the government who pays for these pay increases. It's non PS tax payers who do. More money for the PS means less money for private sector workers.
This post makes little or no sense. Firstly all Public Sector workers are Tax Payers, Tax payers money is managed by the Government, so it's generally their call on pay awards. Private Sector workers are not paid by the Government.

Really ... it makes no sense? PS workers do not make a net contribution to the tax take (the givernment pay them money and then they give some back to the government). I agree that tax payers money is managed by the government (that's what we elect them to do), and also agree that we expect the  givernment to manage pay awards to the PS. I also agree that private sector workers are not paid by the government.

So with all that said, my 2 points remain:

  • It's not the government who pays for these pay increases. It's non PS tax payers who do.
  • More money for the PS means less money for private sector workers.

Franko

Quote from: StephenC on July 29, 2022, 09:01:48 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 28, 2022, 06:25:07 PM
Quote from: StephenC on July 28, 2022, 04:29:54 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 28, 2022, 03:28:34 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on July 28, 2022, 10:49:50 AM
Technology is changing all the time and jobs will become easier to do with less manpower..

I was speaking to the shop assistant the other day and the place has brought in 4 self scanning machines, I was curious to know if they had let people go as they don't need to really serve people anymore, nope, gives them more time to stack shelves and do all the other crap they had to do on top of serving..

Be difficult enough to lose your job for the council I'm sure with that binman job they'll shift him to another sector within the council

Will we see a lot of places (public sector) going on strike action? seems to be a trend
I don't buy the Retail example for a second, the staff that were working on tills are redeployed to other duties surely but when ANY member of staff leaves down the line they are not replaced and the 2.5 till operator staff that was built into overall staff compliment disappears over time and the shop eventually operates with 2.5 fewer people. Self scanners are & will do away with jobs, may take a bit of time but it's a long term play. If I was a small business owner I'd call it progress but if I was a TU Rep I wouldn't.

Public Sector strikes can be headed off with decent pay rises, I doubt anyone is genuinely expecting an 8-10% pay rise but Government has to meet the Public Sector half way in the current circumstances.

It's not the government who pays for these pay increases. It's non PS tax payers who do. More money for the PS means less money for private sector workers.
This post makes little or no sense. Firstly all Public Sector workers are Tax Payers, Tax payers money is managed by the Government, so it's generally their call on pay awards. Private Sector workers are not paid by the Government.

Really ... it makes no sense? PS workers do not make a net contribution to the tax take (the givernment pay them money and then they give some back to the government). I agree that tax payers money is managed by the government (that's what we elect them to do), and also agree that we expect the  givernment to manage pay awards to the PS. I also agree that private sector workers are not paid by the government.

So with all that said, my 2 points remain:

  • It's not the government who pays for these pay increases. It's non PS tax payers who do.
  • More money for the PS means less money for private sector workers.

The Kool-aid has been consumed

CiKe

Quote from: seafoid on July 28, 2022, 10:01:18 PM
Quote from: Main Street on July 28, 2022, 12:38:11 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 14, 2022, 01:43:01 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/rail-strike-27-july-network-trains-b2122302.html?amp

Rejecting a 4% pay rise backdated to January may cost them alot of support...
Lose support of a lot of which people and what exactly are you basing that on?
I do accept that supposed neutrals such as  BBC are overly focused on the negative side effects of rail disruptions, applying responsibility for such effects onto Mad Mike  and not onto the various rail bosses and the various tory warts and tumors  who refuse to negotiate a deal with the Unions.
I should add the Labour party are about as effective as a fleabag.
Starmer is a neoliberal. He sacked shadow Transport   Minister Sam Tarry for joining a picket about rail safety .
The UK is in crisis. An Tuaisceart doesn't even have a Parliament that's open

Incorrect. He sacked him for opening his mouth to deviate from agreed shadow cabinet policy when not authorised to do so.

johnnycool

Quote from: CiKe on July 29, 2022, 10:01:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 28, 2022, 10:01:18 PM
Quote from: Main Street on July 28, 2022, 12:38:11 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 14, 2022, 01:43:01 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/rail-strike-27-july-network-trains-b2122302.html?amp

Rejecting a 4% pay rise backdated to January may cost them alot of support...
Lose support of a lot of which people and what exactly are you basing that on?
I do accept that supposed neutrals such as  BBC are overly focused on the negative side effects of rail disruptions, applying responsibility for such effects onto Mad Mike  and not onto the various rail bosses and the various tory warts and tumors  who refuse to negotiate a deal with the Unions.
I should add the Labour party are about as effective as a fleabag.
Starmer is a neoliberal. He sacked shadow Transport   Minister Sam Tarry for joining a picket about rail safety .
The UK is in crisis. An Tuaisceart doesn't even have a Parliament that's open

Incorrect. He sacked him for opening his mouth to deviate from agreed shadow cabinet policy when not authorised to do so.

That may be true but the Labour front bench got their knickers in a twist when cornered by Tory's asking whether they supported the RMT strikes.

FFS where are Labour going when it's difficult to say they do support them considering they have taken pay cuts for years and the companies are paying record dividends and salaries at the top end?

Franko

Quote from: CiKe on July 29, 2022, 10:01:34 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 28, 2022, 10:01:18 PM
Quote from: Main Street on July 28, 2022, 12:38:11 AM
Quote from: RedHand88 on July 14, 2022, 01:43:01 PM
https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/rail-strike-27-july-network-trains-b2122302.html?amp

Rejecting a 4% pay rise backdated to January may cost them alot of support...
Lose support of a lot of which people and what exactly are you basing that on?
I do accept that supposed neutrals such as  BBC are overly focused on the negative side effects of rail disruptions, applying responsibility for such effects onto Mad Mike  and not onto the various rail bosses and the various tory warts and tumors  who refuse to negotiate a deal with the Unions.
I should add the Labour party are about as effective as a fleabag.
Starmer is a neoliberal. He sacked shadow Transport   Minister Sam Tarry for joining a picket about rail safety .
The UK is in crisis. An Tuaisceart doesn't even have a Parliament that's open

Incorrect. He sacked him for opening his mouth to deviate from agreed shadow cabinet policy when not authorised to do so.

Semantics

The obvious issue here is that this was shadow cabinet policy for the Labour party in the first place

CiKe

It's not semantics. It's two entirely different things. The second of which - the actual policy - you may entirely disagree with.

However what he did was tantamount to insubordination. If Starmer hadn't reacted strongly, he would have basically said "I am a weak leader" and opened himself up to more of same.