The US policing crisis thread

[AZOffaly]

whitey, the faux patriotism I'm referring to is the gestures and 'recognition days' you see in all the major sports and major corporations. I have no doubt that most individuals have genuine patriotic feelings, but they are at least 'stoked' by the ads, the NFL armed forces weekends, the 'just back from Afghanistan surprises for parents at MLB and NHL etc etc etc'.

[muppet]

Considering the deficiencies you've listed Whitey (and even ignoring the rights/wrongs of any wars), why aren't people p*ssed about the military treating soldiers in that way??

because they do t know the half of it

But you do, and yet you criticise anyone who dares question the system?

[whitey]

Considering the deficiencies you've listed Whitey (and even ignoring the rights/wrongs of any wars), why aren't people p*ssed about the military treating soldiers in that way??

because they do t know the half of it

But you do, and yet you criticise anyone who dares question the system?

Muppet-I criticize people who come into "discussion boards" discussing issues armed with no more than left wing propoganda

[foxcommander]

So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?

As the riots have shown if it wasn't for these uniforms the place where you live would not be habitable.
I do have a good laugh when they talk about the "community" policing itself.

I got me some bargains today!

[AZOffaly]

How many years are you in the States whitey? From your posts I'm guessing a substantial amount of time. I was there from 1997 to 2001, and I certainly cannot remember ANYTHING approaching the army worship and crocodile 'tears' of appreciation (if that's not an oxymoron) that you see now.

I was a season ticket holder with the Cardinals, and went to a lot of Coyotes, Suns and Diamondbacks games, and the most militaristic thing I ever saw in that time was a couple of 'fly overs' and the odd trooping of the colour for the anthem.

The uniform decals on helmets, the honouring of 'our troops', the welcomes home, etc etc are all relatively new developments. The Padres even have a bloody Khaki uniform they wear for games where they honour the  'military'. It seems just so cynical to my eyes, looking on from here.

[muppet]

Considering the deficiencies you've listed Whitey (and even ignoring the rights/wrongs of any wars), why aren't people p*ssed about the military treating soldiers in that way??

because they do t know the half of it

But you do, and yet you criticise anyone who dares question the system?

Muppet-I criticize people who come into "discussion boards" discussing issues armed with no more than left wing propoganda

Of course, and anyone that doesn't agree with you fits into that category.

It must be obvious at this stage, even to you, that many of these incidents are indefensible. Cops make mistakes and errors of judgement everywhere. Pointing this out is not left wing propaganda.

[J70]

So that's my choice then? Worship at the altar of armed men in uniform or leave the country? Bit of a drastic choice, wouldn't you say?

As the riots have shown if it wasn't for these uniforms the place where you live would not be habitable.
I do have a good laugh when they talk about the "community" policing itself.

I got me some bargains today!

There's a hardened, dangerous criminal if I ever saw one. .. walking down the street with nappies and toilet roll!

[whitey]

How many years are you in the States whitey? From your posts I'm guessing a substantial amount of time. I was there from 1997 to 2001, and I certainly cannot remember ANYTHING approaching the army worship and crocodile 'tears' of appreciation (if that's not an oxymoron) that you see now.

I was a season ticket holder with the Cardinals, and went to a lot of Coyotes, Suns and Diamondbacks games, and the most militaristic thing I ever saw in that time was a couple of 'fly overs' and the odd trooping of the colour for the anthem.

The uniform decals on helmets, the honouring of 'our troops', the welcomes home, etc etc are all relatively new developments. The Padres even have a bloody Khaki uniform they wear for games where they honour the  'military'. It seems just so cynical to my eyes, looking on from here.

21 years so I was here pre 9/11.

Pre 9/11 the country was not on a war footing....now it is (for better or worse) and so these displays are to be expected. As a Cardinals fan, I'm sure you can appreciate the enormity of what Pat Tillman did, by packing in his career and signing up.  What he did would be so alien to anyone from Ireland or England that they couldn't even comprhend such a decision.

I probably over use it, but when I use the term "viewed through a different prism" that's what I'm  referring to. That need and desire to serve is ingrained in the DNA of the country and that's why the military is viewed as sacred by so many

(how he Tillman story need is of course a whole our story)

[AZOffaly]

How many years are you in the States whitey? From your posts I'm guessing a substantial amount of time. I was there from 1997 to 2001, and I certainly cannot remember ANYTHING approaching the army worship and crocodile 'tears' of appreciation (if that's not an oxymoron) that you see now.

I was a season ticket holder with the Cardinals, and went to a lot of Coyotes, Suns and Diamondbacks games, and the most militaristic thing I ever saw in that time was a couple of 'fly overs' and the odd trooping of the colour for the anthem.

The uniform decals on helmets, the honouring of 'our troops', the welcomes home, etc etc are all relatively new developments. The Padres even have a bloody Khaki uniform they wear for games where they honour the  'military'. It seems just so cynical to my eyes, looking on from here.

21 years so I was here pre 9/11.

Pre 9/11 the country was not on a war footing....now it is (for better or worse) and so these displays are to be expected. As a Cardinals fan, I'm sure you can appreciate the enormity of what Pat Tillman did, by packing in his career and signing up.  What he did would be so alien to anyone from Ireland or England that they couldn't even comprhend such a decision.

I probably over use it, but when I use the term "viewed through a different prism" that's what I'm tal referring to. That need and desire to serve is ingrained in the DNA of the country and that's why the military is vowed as sacred by so many

(how he Tillman story need is of course a whole our story)

Is that not precisely what many professional footballers in the UK did in WWI and WWII? Before conscription? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion

And you say the country is now on a 'war' footing. That's my whole point, it's only on a war footing because it's is all the time in your face. And God help you for being 'UnAmerican' if you happen to disagree with it.

[muppet]

How many years are you in the States whitey? From your posts I'm guessing a substantial amount of time. I was there from 1997 to 2001, and I certainly cannot remember ANYTHING approaching the army worship and crocodile 'tears' of appreciation (if that's not an oxymoron) that you see now.

I was a season ticket holder with the Cardinals, and went to a lot of Coyotes, Suns and Diamondbacks games, and the most militaristic thing I ever saw in that time was a couple of 'fly overs' and the odd trooping of the colour for the anthem.

The uniform decals on helmets, the honouring of 'our troops', the welcomes home, etc etc are all relatively new developments. The Padres even have a bloody Khaki uniform they wear for games where they honour the  'military'. It seems just so cynical to my eyes, looking on from here.

21 years so I was here pre 9/11.

Pre 9/11 the country was not on a war footing....now it is (for better or worse) and so these displays are to be expected. As a Cardinals fan, I'm sure you can appreciate the enormity of what Pat Tillman did, by packing in his career and signing up.  What he did would be so alien to anyone from Ireland or England that they couldn't even comprhend such a decision.

I probably over use it, but when I use the term "viewed through a different prism" that's what I'm tal referring to. That need and desire to serve is ingrained in the DNA of the country and that's why the military is vowed as sacred by so many

(how he Tillman story need is of course a whole our story)

Is that not precisely what many professional footballers in the UK did in WWI and WWII? Before conscription? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion

Tillman was killed by friendly fire.

That more than anything should convey the pointlessness of war.

[J70]

How many years are you in the States whitey? From your posts I'm guessing a substantial amount of time. I was there from 1997 to 2001, and I certainly cannot remember ANYTHING approaching the army worship and crocodile 'tears' of appreciation (if that's not an oxymoron) that you see now.

I was a season ticket holder with the Cardinals, and went to a lot of Coyotes, Suns and Diamondbacks games, and the most militaristic thing I ever saw in that time was a couple of 'fly overs' and the odd trooping of the colour for the anthem.

The uniform decals on helmets, the honouring of 'our troops', the welcomes home, etc etc are all relatively new developments. The Padres even have a bloody Khaki uniform they wear for games where they honour the  'military'. It seems just so cynical to my eyes, looking on from here.

21 years so I was here pre 9/11.

Pre 9/11 the country was not on a war footing....now it is (for better or worse) and so these displays are to be expected. As a Cardinals fan, I'm sure you can appreciate the enormity of what Pat Tillman did, by packing in his career and signing up.  What he did would be so alien to anyone from Ireland or England that they couldn't even comprhend such a decision.

I probably over use it, but when I use the term "viewed through a different prism" that's what I'm tal referring to. That need and desire to serve is ingrained in the DNA of the country and that's why the military is vowed as sacred by so many

(how he Tillman story need is of course a whole our story)

Is that not precisely what many professional footballers in the UK did in WWI and WWII? Before conscription? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Battalion

And you say the country is now on a 'war' footing. That's my whole point, it's only on a war footing because it's is all the time in your face. And God help you for being 'UnAmerican' if you happen to disagree with it.

I know an Irish-American lad, right wing zealot, proud ex- Marine and otherwise nice guy, who proudly told me how he kicked some Irish cousins out of his house, never to speak to them again,  around the time of the Iraq war build-up for having the nerve to say that US foreign policy may have contributed to 9/11.

[AZOffaly]

I know how he died. I don't think that was whitey's point in fairness.

[whitey]

Possibly, but most were going to be conscripted anyway. Secondly, many  were earning the average industrial wage-they weren't the highly paid superstars of today. Thirdly comparing Wolverhampton Wanderers circa 1939 to 2011 AZ Cardinals is a stretch to say the least

[muppet]

I know how he died. I don't think that was whitey's point in fairness.

He claimed that no one from Ireland could even comprehend his decision, as if it were some sort of higher function. We could point to any number of Irish people who gave up their lives for their country. Presumably his celebrity makes him better than others.

But I prefer to highlight the complete pointlessness of it. He died a young man, killed by those he volunteered to serve.

[AZOffaly]

You're missing my point. They would have been paid relatively well for the era they were in, and would undoubtedly have had status in the eyes of their fans and their peers. Of course you can't compare their earnings potential, but as recognisable figures in their society, they were similar. You said it would never 'occur' to someone like that outside the states, and I'm pointing out that not only has it occured, but it happened nearly 100 years before Pat.

Anyway, it's a slight tangent. I believe Americans are partly the way they are because of what they are being force fed all around them. I don't deny what they are. I just think their 'nurture' in the form of the propoganda even from sporting organisations and corporations, not just from the government and government influenced media, is making them far more pliable.

As I said before, if the US was really such an appreciative place for their servicemen and women, the vets from Vietnam would not have been fucked out on the street to fend for themselves, and the incidents you yourself have mentioned would not have happened. You're making my point for me. It's all a sham. They don't really appreciate anyone's service, they just want others to continue serving in the same way.