The Many Faces of US Politics...

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by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they've generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren't the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.

I have had a securities license for close to 30 years

I have worked for companies that have been subject to SEC investigations and enforcement actions

The current head of compliance at our company is the former chief enforcement officer for the SEC

I cannot give someone a sleeve of golf balls or buy someone a sandwich without reporting it to compliance

I just don't  see how inflating property prices when applying for loans and deflating them for tax purposes is a criminal matter. Every real estate developer on Gods green earth does it and has been doing it for centuries

goalposts moved... I  dont care about the soap opera that is  US politics, I just dropped in and saw this comment...

They're essentially alleging that he pulled this off repeatedly, over several decades at numerous financial institutions (that are subject to all types of regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors)

Doesn't make any sense (to me)

Regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors hasn't stopped white collar crime before so I don't see how it doesn't make sense to you that anyone could try and get away with it.


by the way you can buy a sleeve of golf balls or sandwich and not report it to compliance. there is nothing stopping you. However, if it's against your company policy or maybe financial regs too and you are caught you will like be in trouble.

Bank auditors and regulators (internal and external) for decades signed off on the valuations and underwriting for these loans-

Now all of a sudden these valuations are problematic.

I guess the chips will fall wherever they will in court, but every real estate developer in NYC must be quite nervous if this is the new standard to a prosecution

Watch The Big Short if you think that something like this can't happen repeatedly over the course of a number of years with regulators and banks turning a blind eye to the practice... given the catastrophe we faced during the crash in the late 2000s none of this should come as anything resembling a surprise.

The banking system up until the point was a shambles and it wouldn't be surprising if there aren't some "legacy issues" around the big boyos like Trumper!!

[Gabriel_Hurl]

Guys - I don't even support Donald Trump - ok?

Also guys - here's me vigorously defending him daily since 2015.

[trueblue1234]

Guys - I don't even support Donald Trump - ok?

Also guys - here's me vigorously defending him daily since 2015.

But it's the Dems who makes him do it! 

[J70]

It's not just one "agency" overseeing these banks

There's layer after layer of oversight from federal state and local entities not to mention internal and external auditors.

Makes absolutely no sense that if what he did was fraudulent that it no one ever caught it

So why didn't they catch Madoff?

Someone else referenced the Big Short (whose author, if I recall correctly, you're a fan of) and how it detailed the regulatory and banking failures that led to the 2008 crisis. Why were there only one or two lone voices in the wilderness warning of what was to come even with all the supposed interlocking oversight?

I spent a few years in a regulatory enforcement agency myself. Given the available resources, it would take around 150 years for that agency to inspect all of the entities it enforces, and we're just talking setting foot in them, not taking a floor-to-ceiling look.

[whitey]

I'm under the gun today so a few issues to ponder

Was Trump the only one doing this?

If not, was anyone else investigated and prosecuted?

How many people "were in on it"-internal, external, regulators, auditors? Are they under investigation?

Banks have armies of lawyers and accountants who provide oversight on  these loans-what did they have to gain by just accepting Trumps valuations? 

[PadraicHenryPearse]

I'm under the gun today so a few issues to ponder

Was Trump the only one doing this?

If not, was anyone else investigated and prosecuted?

How many people "were in on it"-internal, external, regulators, auditors? Are they under investigation?

Banks have armies of lawyers and accountants who provide oversight on  these loans-what did they have to gain by just accepting Trumps valuations?

1. not relevant. plenty of people speed, do drugs etc. some are caught other aren't.
2.not relevant,
3. only by investigating will that be identified. there are plenty of examples of lack or negilant behavior which may not mean "in on it"
4. interest on loans for one!!!  I also think you have an over inflated expectation on oversight.. I say this with over 20 years of financial services in Ireland including stints at regulator.  Not the same the US....

it doesn't matter why Trump... I dont understand the fixation on this point... if he did something wrong, illegal or against the rules should he not be punished... why does anyone else matter.

[whitey]

I'm under the gun today so a few issues to ponder

Was Trump the only one doing this?

If not, was anyone else investigated and prosecuted?

How many people "were in on it"-internal, external, regulators, auditors? Are they under investigation?

Banks have armies of lawyers and accountants who provide oversight on  these loans-what did they have to gain by just accepting Trumps valuations?

1. not relevant. plenty of people speed, do drugs etc. some are caught other aren't.
2.not relevant,
3. only by investigating will that be identified. there are plenty of examples of lack or negilant behavior which may not mean "in on it"
4. interest on loans for one!!!  I also think you have an over inflated expectation on oversight.. I say this with over 20 years of financial services in Ireland including stints at regulator.  Not the same the US....

it doesn't matter why Trump... I dont understand the fixation on this point... if he did something wrong, illegal or against the rules should he not be punished... why does anyone else matter.

From a legal standpoint you are correct and I already said numerous times that if Trump broke the law he should face the consequences

My points are from a political standpoint

Putting aside for a moment that this is Trump, are you okay with an Attorney General prosecuting a political opponent for doing what is a common practice, while not prosecuting (or even investigating) hundreds if not thousands of companies who do exactly the same thing day every day of the week?

[Eamonnca1]

Dems now within 13 seats of keeping the House with 6 weeks to go to the election. 6 weeks ago they were 25 seats away. Still a long way to November 8th and more than enough time to close the gap to within the margin of polling error. If we do this, DC & Puerto Rico statehood and an expanded Supreme Court look a lot more doable. Expanded voting rights could deal another crippling blow to anti-democracy conservatives.  Legalized abortion could be codified at the federal level.

The overturning of Roe could go down in history as the moment when the MAGA white supremacists overplayed their hand and the checks and balances in the system came back to bite them. They've pushed that pendulum so far to the right that the swing-back is almost unavoidable at this point.

[PadraicHenryPearse]

I'm under the gun today so a few issues to ponder

Was Trump the only one doing this?

If not, was anyone else investigated and prosecuted?

How many people "were in on it"-internal, external, regulators, auditors? Are they under investigation?

Banks have armies of lawyers and accountants who provide oversight on  these loans-what did they have to gain by just accepting Trumps valuations?

1. not relevant. plenty of people speed, do drugs etc. some are caught other aren't.
2.not relevant,
3. only by investigating will that be identified. there are plenty of examples of lack or negilant behavior which may not mean "in on it"
4. interest on loans for one!!!  I also think you have an over inflated expectation on oversight.. I say this with over 20 years of financial services in Ireland including stints at regulator.  Not the same the US....

it doesn't matter why Trump... I dont understand the fixation on this point... if he did something wrong, illegal or against the rules should he not be punished... why does anyone else matter.

From a legal standpoint you are correct and I already said numerous times that if Trump broke the law he should face the consequences

My points are from a political standpoint

Putting aside for a moment that this is Trump, are you okay with an Attorney General prosecuting a political opponent for doing what is a common practice, while not prosecuting (or even investigating) hundreds if not thousands of companies who do exactly the same thing day every day of the week?

out of one side if your mouth it's common practice and out of the other it's auditors, regulators, lawyers couldn't let something like this happen.

leaving Trump aside, if you are high profile, if there are suspicions about you, expect some heat.

again not every speeder is caught. if what Trump is doing is wrong and others are also doing it, those people should be concerned especially if they have big profiles but there is finite resources for all this stuff I'd imagine... so not everyone will be caught.

[whitey]

I'm under the gun today so a few issues to ponder

Was Trump the only one doing this?

If not, was anyone else investigated and prosecuted?

How many people "were in on it"-internal, external, regulators, auditors? Are they under investigation?

Banks have armies of lawyers and accountants who provide oversight on  these loans-what did they have to gain by just accepting Trumps valuations?

1. not relevant. plenty of people speed, do drugs etc. some are caught other aren't.
2.not relevant,
3. only by investigating will that be identified. there are plenty of examples of lack or negilant behavior which may not mean "in on it"
4. interest on loans for one!!!  I also think you have an over inflated expectation on oversight.. I say this with over 20 years of financial services in Ireland including stints at regulator.  Not the same the US....

it doesn't matter why Trump... I dont understand the fixation on this point... if he did something wrong, illegal or against the rules should he not be punished... why does anyone else matter.

From a legal standpoint you are correct and I already said numerous times that if Trump broke the law he should face the consequences

My points are from a political standpoint

Putting aside for a moment that this is Trump, are you okay with an Attorney General prosecuting a political opponent for doing what is a common practice, while not prosecuting (or even investigating) hundreds if not thousands of companies who do exactly the same thing day every day of the week?

out of one side if your mouth it's common practice and out of the other it's auditors, regulators, lawyers couldn't let something like this happen.

leaving Trump aside, if you are high profile, if there are suspicions about you, expect some heat.

again not every speeder is caught. if what Trump is doing is wrong and others are also doing it, those people should be concerned especially if they have big profiles but there is finite resources for all this stuff I'd imagine... so not everyone will be caught.

Maybe the regulators/auditors didn't find it because it's not something they were not looking for it?

Maybe they weren't looking for, it because it's common practice and everyone does it and has been doing it for decades?

Anyway-going back to my question

Yes or no-are you okay with an Attorney General prosecuting a political opponent for doing what is a common practice, while not prosecuting (or even investigating) hundreds if not thousands of companies who do exactly the same thing day every day of the week?

[PadraicHenryPearse]

I'm under the gun today so a few issues to ponder

Was Trump the only one doing this?

If not, was anyone else investigated and prosecuted?

How many people "were in on it"-internal, external, regulators, auditors? Are they under investigation?

Banks have armies of lawyers and accountants who provide oversight on  these loans-what did they have to gain by just accepting Trumps valuations?

1. not relevant. plenty of people speed, do drugs etc. some are caught other aren't.
2.not relevant,
3. only by investigating will that be identified. there are plenty of examples of lack or negilant behavior which may not mean "in on it"
4. interest on loans for one!!!  I also think you have an over inflated expectation on oversight.. I say this with over 20 years of financial services in Ireland including stints at regulator.  Not the same the US....

it doesn't matter why Trump... I dont understand the fixation on this point... if he did something wrong, illegal or against the rules should he not be punished... why does anyone else matter.

From a legal standpoint you are correct and I already said numerous times that if Trump broke the law he should face the consequences

My points are from a political standpoint

Putting aside for a moment that this is Trump, are you okay with an Attorney General prosecuting a political opponent for doing what is a common practice, while not prosecuting (or even investigating) hundreds if not thousands of companies who do exactly the same thing day every day of the week?

out of one side if your mouth it's common practice and out of the other it's auditors, regulators, lawyers couldn't let something like this happen.

leaving Trump aside, if you are high profile, if there are suspicions about you, expect some heat.

again not every speeder is caught. if what Trump is doing is wrong and others are also doing it, those people should be concerned especially if they have big profiles but there is finite resources for all this stuff I'd imagine... so not everyone will be caught.

Maybe the regulators/auditors didn't find it because it's not something they were not looking for it?

Maybe they weren't looking for, it because it's common practice and everyone does it and has been doing it for decades?

Anyway-going back to my question

Yes or no-are you okay with an Attorney General prosecuting a political opponent for doing what is a common practice, while not prosecuting (or even investigating) hundreds if not thousands of companies who do exactly the same thing day every day of the week?

lost in if buts and maybes whitey...

I am OK with it because if not as banal as you infer. See previous posts..

similarly, I could ask you are you OK with an AG not prosecuting a political opponent  because of the visual of them being a political opponent if they are doing something wrong.

it appears you are ok with that as long as everyone else doing a similar wrong is prosecuted too... not every speeder or drug user is prosecuted.

why so concerned about Trump?  I would think he's done much worst in his life and this won't hurt him at all anyway.

[whitey]

The charges are garbage

The banks aren't stupid-they have some of the best and brightest attorneys and accountants overseeing these loan applications

Their work is further scrutinized by auditors and regulators

2 Manhattan DAs , Cy Vance and Alvin Bragg investigated these same charges using the same evidence and neither brought criminal charges against Trump

But the bottom line is you're on board with an AG targeting political opponents-fair enough

[PadraicHenryPearse]

The charges are garbage

The banks aren't stupid-they have some of the best and brightest attorneys and accountants overseeing these loan applications

Their work is further scrutinized by auditors and regulators

2 Manhattan DAs , Cy Vance and Alvin Bragg investigated these same charges using the same evidence and neither brought criminal charges against Trump

But the bottom line is you're on board with an AG targeting political opponents-fair enough

I am OK with wrongdoing being investigated and charges brought if there is a case there...  by your logical an AG can only prosecut those of a similar political preference....

to your first two point again, that hasn't prevented fraud, wrong doing  before so it is not 100%, this point seems lost on you..

if the charges are garage then surely Trump comes out stronger and cleaner.. he should welcome this type of challenge if nothing to hide...

[whitey]

The charges are garbage

The banks aren't stupid-they have some of the best and brightest attorneys and accountants overseeing these loan applications

Their work is further scrutinized by auditors and regulators

2 Manhattan DAs , Cy Vance and Alvin Bragg investigated these same charges using the same evidence and neither brought criminal charges against Trump

But the bottom line is you're on board with an AG targeting political opponents-fair enough

I am OK with wrongdoing being investigated and charges brought if there is a case there...  by your logical an AG can only prosecut those of a similar political preference....

to your first two point again, that hasn't prevented fraud, wrong doing  before so it is not 100%, this point seems lost on you..

if the charges are garage then surely Trump comes out stronger and cleaner.. he should welcome this type of challenge if nothing to hide...

Wrongdoing had already been investigated by 2 Separate Manhattan DAs and neither brought charges (and both  men would be considered hostile toward Trump)

And you are correct, if Trump gets off it's a win for him. (But this is a civil case so there's a much lower threshold so who knows how it goes)

[lenny]

The charges are garbage

The banks aren't stupid-they have some of the best and brightest attorneys and accountants overseeing these loan applications

Their work is further scrutinized by auditors and regulators

2 Manhattan DAs , Cy Vance and Alvin Bragg investigated these same charges using the same evidence and neither brought criminal charges against Trump

But the bottom line is you're on board with an AG targeting political opponents-fair enough

I am OK with wrongdoing being investigated and charges brought if there is a case there...  by your logical an AG can only prosecut those of a similar political preference....

to your first two point again, that hasn't prevented fraud, wrong doing  before so it is not 100%, this point seems lost on you..

if the charges are garage then surely Trump comes out stronger and cleaner.. he should welcome this type of challenge if nothing to hide...

Wrongdoing had already been investigated by 2 Separate Manhattan DAs and neither brought charges (and both  men would be considered hostile toward Trump)

And you are correct, if Trump gets off it's a win for him. (But this is a civil case so there's a much lower threshold so who knows how it goes)

Let's just hope that justice is done then and if he's guilty that it finishes him once and for all.