The Many Faces of US Politics...

[J70]

One question I have is how did he pull this off?

Banks have governance boards, outside auditors, state regulators and a plethora of other entities that review and assess their lending activities

So either they were all in cahoots with him, they were outrageously incompetent or Trump is the biggest genius if the history of the world

He has been corrupt all his life. He's used to not paying people or his taxes. These things usually catch up with people if you wait long enough. He should have been in jail decades ago but it'll be good to see him held to account eventually.

That's not what I'm asking

Let's say you go to trade in a car and you tell the dealer, it's a 2018 model with 25K miles on the clock when in fact it's a 2008 with 250K miles on the clock.

How many times could you pull off that scam? Maybe once if you had someone working with you on the inside

They're essentially alleging that he pulled this off repeatedly, over several decades at numerous financial institutions (that are subject to all types of regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors)

Doesn't make any sense (to me)

Agency oversight isn't always all it's cracked up to be.

NYC Dept of Buildings and cranes, Bernie Madoff, oil industry, 2008 crisis...

[whitey]

It's not just one "agency" overseeing these banks

There's layer after layer of oversight from federal state and local entities not to mention internal and external auditors.

Makes absolutely no sense that if what he did was fraudulent that it no one ever caught it

[PadraicHenryPearse]

It's not just one "agency" overseeing these banks

There's layer after layer of oversight from federal state and local entities not to mention internal and external auditors.

Makes absolutely no sense that if what he did was fraudulent that it no one ever caught it

white collar crime

[whitey]

I would think that if there is legitimate cause to investigate as there is with Trump, then it should be done, regardless of who it is.

Correct

But did she target him because he did wrong or did she target him because of who he is

He is far from the biggest real estate developer in NY

Has she investigated others for similar fraud or is this a one off

Is this is a one off, that should terrify everyone-R or D, that an attorney general can weaponize their office to target political foes

Weaponize??

Again, you're ignoring the fact that all of the info leading to this was being highly publicized due to inner circle/fixer testimony before Congress and the disavowal of years of finance information by his accountants. Are the authorities in NY just supposed to ignore it? Were any of these other real estate moguls fixing the books like Trump was alleged to be doing? Do you have evidence that the NY AG's office let's such practices slide?

I voted for James fully aware that if she won she would do her job and hold Trump to account where she was able. The GOP certainly wasn't going to and still is a full accessory to his corruption and undermining of democracy.

It's amazing how you downplay everything Trump and the GOP do, yet lose it over a Democratic state AG just doing her job.

US politics is partisan and has been for decades. If you've skeletons in your closet, either don't run or else hire some good lawyers because the opposition are going to sniff it out and investigate.

If Trump ends up losing his NY privileges I'm sure the people of Florida will welcome his corruption and stiffing of small businessmen to their state.

I'm downplaying nothing

If he broke the law he should be prosecuted

But you (and the AG) make it sound like Trump just submitted the inflated valuations and that these valuations are just accepted on face value and that is fraud. That's simply untrue

Same thing with the low ball valuations he submitted for property tax purposes-the assessors dont just accept Trumps valuations as gospel. He had/has brass balls to pull off what they claim he did, but my God, what we're the assessors doing accepting these valuations?

[whitey]

It's not just one "agency" overseeing these banks

There's layer after layer of oversight from federal state and local entities not to mention internal and external auditors.

Makes absolutely no sense that if what he did was fraudulent that it no one ever caught it

white collar crime

By the Banks and regulators?

[PadraicHenryPearse]

by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered... 

[lenny]

by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they've generally taken place over years and often decades.

[whitey]

by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

True-but this isn't a criminal case-it's a civil case

He would have needed a lot of people in a lots of different positions over many time periods to be turning a blind eye

[whitey]

by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they've generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren't the banks indicted as co conspirators?

[PadraicHenryPearse]

by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they've generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren't the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.

[whitey]

by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they've generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren't the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.

I just don't  see how inflating property prices when applying for loans and deflating them for tax purposes is a criminal matter. Every real estate developer on Gods green earth does it and has been doing it for centuries

[PadraicHenryPearse]

by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they've generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren't the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.

I have had a securities license for close to 30 years

I have worked for companies that have been subject to SEC investigations and enforcement actions

The current head of compliance at our company is the former chief enforcement officer for the SEC

I cannot give someone a sleeve of golf balls or buy someone a sandwich without reporting it to compliance

I just don't  see how inflating property prices when applying for loans and deflating them for tax purposes is a criminal matter. Every real estate developer on Gods green earth does it and has been doing it for centuries

goalposts moved... I  dont care about the soap opera that is  US politics, I just dropped in and saw this comment...

They're essentially alleging that he pulled this off repeatedly, over several decades at numerous financial institutions (that are subject to all types of regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors)

Doesn't make any sense (to me)

Regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors hasn't stopped white collar crime before so I don't see how it doesn't make sense to you that anyone could try and get away with it.


by the way you can buy a sleeve of golf balls or sandwich and not report it to compliance. there is nothing stopping you. However, if it's against your company policy or maybe financial regs too and you are caught you will like be in trouble.

[Gmac]

It's political, I know it and everyone else does too

[whitey]

by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they've generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren't the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.

I have had a securities license for close to 30 years

I have worked for companies that have been subject to SEC investigations and enforcement actions

The current head of compliance at our company is the former chief enforcement officer for the SEC

I cannot give someone a sleeve of golf balls or buy someone a sandwich without reporting it to compliance

I just don't  see how inflating property prices when applying for loans and deflating them for tax purposes is a criminal matter. Every real estate developer on Gods green earth does it and has been doing it for centuries

goalposts moved... I  dont care about the soap opera that is  US politics, I just dropped in and saw this comment...

They're essentially alleging that he pulled this off repeatedly, over several decades at numerous financial institutions (that are subject to all types of regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors)

Doesn't make any sense (to me)

Regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors hasn't stopped white collar crime before so I don't see how it doesn't make sense to you that anyone could try and get away with it.


by the way you can buy a sleeve of golf balls or sandwich and not report it to compliance. there is nothing stopping you. However, if it's against your company policy or maybe financial regs too and you are caught you will like be in trouble.

Bank auditors and regulators (internal and external) for decades signed off on the valuations and underwriting for these loans-

Now all of a sudden these valuations are problematic.

I guess the chips will fall wherever they will in court, but every real estate developer in NYC must be quite nervous if this is the new standard to a prosecution

[PadraicHenryPearse]

by individuals in banks and potentially regulators... but my point is even with auditors, regulators etc. fraud and while collar crime exist and can unnoticed for years or never discovered...

If you read about fraud cases that have gone to court they've generally taken place over years and often decades.

So why weren't the banks indicted as co conspirators?

individuals in banks can commit fraud, as can customers and so can individuals in regulators and auditors... they can also be negligent. there can be a combinations of those individuals can work together to commit fraud etc.

Regulators have fined banks many times, normally for breachs of regs. there will be a new senior executive accountability regime regulation being introduced in Ireland soon making it easier to take actions against individuals within regulated entities.. Michael fingleton would be a good example of someone who oversaw poor controls and governance in irish nationwide of you want to Google him.

I have had a securities license for close to 30 years

I have worked for companies that have been subject to SEC investigations and enforcement actions

The current head of compliance at our company is the former chief enforcement officer for the SEC

I cannot give someone a sleeve of golf balls or buy someone a sandwich without reporting it to compliance

I just don't  see how inflating property prices when applying for loans and deflating them for tax purposes is a criminal matter. Every real estate developer on Gods green earth does it and has been doing it for centuries

goalposts moved... I  dont care about the soap opera that is  US politics, I just dropped in and saw this comment...

They're essentially alleging that he pulled this off repeatedly, over several decades at numerous financial institutions (that are subject to all types of regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors)

Doesn't make any sense (to me)

Regulatory scrutiny by a plethora of federal and state agencies and auditors hasn't stopped white collar crime before so I don't see how it doesn't make sense to you that anyone could try and get away with it.


by the way you can buy a sleeve of golf balls or sandwich and not report it to compliance. there is nothing stopping you. However, if it's against your company policy or maybe financial regs too and you are caught you will like be in trouble.

Bank auditors and regulators (internal and external) for decades signed off on the valuations and underwriting for these loans-

Now all of a sudden these valuations are problematic.

I guess the chips will fall wherever they will in court, but every real estate developer in NYC must be quite nervous if this is the new standard to a prosecution

Firstly if you are high profile and make enemies easily make sure you got your shit in order.  I dont think others need worry too much. If you are high profile and do drugs and are caught on camera for example you are more likely to face trouble with the law then if you are an average Joe soap due to more exposure etc.

secondly, if it isn't OK now, it wasnt OK tben, it just wasn't identified.