Martin Mc Guinness Passes Away at 66

[Main Street]

He was a consistent rock in the republican movement from the very beginnings, you'd have thought he was indestructible but sadly not the body which carried the man.

[sensethetone]

RIP Martin

[theskull1]

RIP.

[vallankumous]

http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/martin-mcguinness-record-in-executive-cant-exorcise-the-ghosts-of-the-past-35321466.html

Great article that accurately outlines how McGuiness is and will be viewed outside hard nationalist circles (and SF AGMs, I guess) in the six counties.

The rush to lionise the nationalist answer to Ian Paisley here just because he's gone shows a serious lack of perspective. Like Paisley, he took the north deeper down the rabbit hole. Everyone would have been better off without both.

I can only surmise that those on here who are being disingenuous with their views on McGuinness, fall into two categories, they either are 40 and under in age or live in the south. Anyone of my generation and older will only too readily remember what it was like growing up in the Protestant state. I could what about all day on nationalist grievances, my experience in work and on the streets and the actions of our fellow countrymen. But I won't. Martin McGuinness got embroiled in the troubles and the IRA because of his experiences. The history is there go read it. In fact those of you who want to objectively view the northern state and the cause of the troubles should go read Bonfires on the Hillsides by James Kelly. The best history of the North to be written. I personally could never pick up arms, but many like McGuinness did so out of frustration and a sense injustice. Am I condoning the atrocities ... absolutely not, but they need to be viewed in context. The SDLP and John Hume great man as he is could not have delivered the GFA or the peace process with out the IRA's actions, Unionists simply would not have moved, if you believe otherwise then you are a fool. There was much done on both sides and we thankfully have moved beyond that. You don't have to like Martin mcGuinness to acknowledge his contribution in delivering the North to where we are now. He has continuously stretched himself and nationalism in attempts to reach accommodation with political unionism only to be thwarted by intransigence. Unlike some he has never denied his past or sought to hide behind red hats or shotgun licences.

A very constructive post that shows an understanding of the Northern situation.
On the other hand we have syferus being as articulate as Jolene Bunting.

Great post Applesisapples.

I think that most under the age of 40 (or certainly 30) would lean towards SF, especially in the north.

That may be so but I am alluding to a lack of personal experience of the north in the 60's and 70's. My Dad god rest him related stories of how neighbours who were B Specials took great delight in abusing their powers as an auxiliary police force, neighbours mind you not strangers. Every July a home up until the late early '80's the OO transported their lambegs 3 miles from the hall to bate them outside the chapel. Times have changed but the trouble can't be viewed in isolation or from the comfort of todays catholic middle class. Those from the south quick with the condemnation easily forget the blood on the hands of many of the founding fathers of the southern state.I have also stopped short of accusing our southern fellow countrymen of abandoning us, as I don't think they had much option. But I do believe their is a suppressed guilt in the southern mindset that they did so and are some how responsible for the trouble, hence the fervour to heap it all (blame) onto SF and the IRA.

Balderpoppytwaddle

This is an example of why the quote function is terrible.

[ziggy90]

RIP.

[Applesisapples]

http://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/news-analysis/martin-mcguinness-record-in-executive-cant-exorcise-the-ghosts-of-the-past-35321466.html

Great article that accurately outlines how McGuiness is and will be viewed outside hard nationalist circles (and SF AGMs, I guess) in the six counties.

The rush to lionise the nationalist answer to Ian Paisley here just because he's gone shows a serious lack of perspective. Like Paisley, he took the north deeper down the rabbit hole. Everyone would have been better off without both.

I can only surmise that those on here who are being disingenuous with their views on McGuinness, fall into two categories, they either are 40 and under in age or live in the south. Anyone of my generation and older will only too readily remember what it was like growing up in the Protestant state. I could what about all day on nationalist grievances, my experience in work and on the streets and the actions of our fellow countrymen. But I won't. Martin McGuinness got embroiled in the troubles and the IRA because of his experiences. The history is there go read it. In fact those of you who want to objectively view the northern state and the cause of the troubles should go read Bonfires on the Hillsides by James Kelly. The best history of the North to be written. I personally could never pick up arms, but many like McGuinness did so out of frustration and a sense injustice. Am I condoning the atrocities ... absolutely not, but they need to be viewed in context. The SDLP and John Hume great man as he is could not have delivered the GFA or the peace process with out the IRA's actions, Unionists simply would not have moved, if you believe otherwise then you are a fool. There was much done on both sides and we thankfully have moved beyond that. You don't have to like Martin mcGuinness to acknowledge his contribution in delivering the North to where we are now. He has continuously stretched himself and nationalism in attempts to reach accommodation with political unionism only to be thwarted by intransigence. Unlike some he has never denied his past or sought to hide behind red hats or shotgun licences.

A very constructive post that shows an understanding of the Northern situation.
On the other hand we have syferus being as articulate as Jolene Bunting.

Great post Applesisapples.

I think that most under the age of 40 (or certainly 30) would lean towards SF, especially in the north.

That may be so but I am alluding to a lack of personal experience of the north in the 60's and 70's. My Dad god rest him related stories of how neighbours who were B Specials took great delight in abusing their powers as an auxiliary police force, neighbours mind you not strangers. Every July a home up until the late early '80's the OO transported their lambegs 3 miles from the hall to bate them outside the chapel. Times have changed but the trouble can't be viewed in isolation or from the comfort of todays catholic middle class. Those from the south quick with the condemnation easily forget the blood on the hands of many of the founding fathers of the southern state.I have also stopped short of accusing our southern fellow countrymen of abandoning us, as I don't think they had much option. But I do believe their is a suppressed guilt in the southern mindset that they did so and are some how responsible for the trouble, hence the fervour to heap it all (blame) onto SF and the IRA.

Balderpoppytwaddle

This is an example of why the quote function is terrible.

You are a bit late there Val

[The Stallion]

Agree on the quote issue. If nothing else comes from the sad news of Marty passing let it be an improvement to the quote function.

[Rossfan]

RIP Martin.
If it wasn't for Unionist bigotry, intolerance and discrimination and suppression most of us would never had heard of him.
He still had to confront that mindset right at the end when Foster came along and tried to turn the clock back 60 years.
Slán a mhac. 

[seafoid]

Norman Tebbit didn't read the memo.

[Hectic]

RIP Martin.
If it wasn't for Unionist bigotry, intolerance and discrimination and suppression most of us would never had heard of him.
He still had to confront that mindset right at the end when Foster came along and tried to turn the clock back 60 years.
Slán a mhac.

Bang on.

[north_antrim_hound]

RIP
martin

Plenty of self righteous detractors in our board

Here's What some better men than you,Norman Tebbit and Jim Allister and would have said

" Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable."
J F Kenedy

" sometimes you have to pick the gun up to put the gun down"
Malcom X

[maddog]

Norman Tebbit didn't read the memo.

Well if Norman thinks thats where Martin is headed he should be careful what he wishes for.

RIP Martin

[stew]

I dont understand why people talk ill of the dead, when Thatcher died many people went wild with happiness at the death of a frail old woman, I detested her in life but felt nothing like happiness at her death, I felt nothing at all actually, the last thing I would do would be to badmouth someone who just died yet facebook has the haters out in full force, bad craic to be at, I had no time for Martin but I respect the work he did to stop the killing in this neck of the woods.

RIP Martin.

[foxcommander]

Ordinary men and women who battled for equality and took their people further than they possibly could imagine. RIP Martin.

From hills and farms a call to arms
Was heard by one and all.
And from the glen came brave young men
To answer Irelands call.
`T wasnt long ago we faced a foe,
The old brigade and me,
And by my side they fought and died
That Ireland might be free.

Where are the lads that stood with me
When history was made?
A Ghra Mo Chroi, I long to see
The boys of the old brigade.

[AhNowRef]

RIP Martin.
If it wasn't for Unionist bigotry, intolerance and discrimination and suppression most of us would never had heard of him.
He still had to confront that mindset right at the end when Foster came along and tried to turn the clock back 60 years.
Slán a mhac.

Very well put ... RIP Martin, you were a true statesman..

I would suggest that the "threat" from BrokenPromises & the DUP hoard of another election will be somewhat tempered now .. They would hardly like the end result..