Derry Club Football & Hurling original

[Hoof Hearted]

Too many boys in North Derry too fond of the drink and soccer to put in the commitment required for the clubs to really push on

You could say that about any town or village in Ireland. Lazy stereotype

Is there many lads in Slaughtneil or Glen going on the piss the night before a championship match? Happens regularly in my own club and surrounding ones

I'd say they don't go on the piss from new years eve, mever mind the night before a match

[BrotherMore6592]

Too many boys in North Derry too fond of the drink and soccer to put in the commitment required for the clubs to really push on

Whilst I agree small soccer clubs don't have the same buy in or commitment levels of serious club GAA teams

Those at the top of their game in soccer even locally have a high level of fitness and commitment.

I don't think soccer is the issue

We've seen plenty of very good players cross over from both codes

[tbrick18]

It's not a bad idea actually as it does give players from lower divisions a chance to showcase themselves on a bigger stage. The administration of such. Team might be problematic though.....who manages them for a start?
A Foreglen manager might not be acceptable to Faughanvale, slaughtmanus, magilligan, Claudy or craigbane say.

What happens the rest of the players from those clubs that don't make the divisional teams?
Do they still play the lower division championships as normal and then the pick of those make up the divisional side?
Genuine question....I can see the benefit of a divisional team to showcase the better players from the lower divisions, but it can't be at the expense of the rest of the players in those divisions.

[shawshank]

Lads I recall being at a meeting on behalf of my club at the time of the Games development strategy and divisional teams were very strongly part of it, whatever happened to it? It was promoted by the County Board, they haven't followed through on it.  I thought it was a excellent idea. Surely getting divisional teams into the senior league for a start and have their games on Wednesdays to allow junior and intermediate teams to play away in their own club league at weekends is a sensibly starting point. Its a decent pathway for developing and exposing players to a higher standard of football?

[statto]

It's not a bad idea actually as it does give players from lower divisions a chance to showcase themselves on a bigger stage. The administration of such. Team might be problematic though.....who manages them for a start?
A Foreglen manager might not be acceptable to Faughanvale, slaughtmanus, magilligan, Claudy or craigbane say.

What happens the rest of the players from those clubs that don't make the divisional teams?
Do they still play the lower division championships as normal and then the pick of those make up the divisional side?
Genuine question....I can see the benefit of a divisional team to showcase the better players from the lower divisions, but it can't be at the expense of the rest of the players in those divisions.

I think a number of years ago in the Down Championship there was an amalgamation of lower teams in East Down that entered in the senior championship.  Not totally sure of how it was made up some of the down posters may be able to confirm. 

[imtommygunn]

It was tried in antrim hurling for the championship and didn't work well at all. Are there many (or any) counties have managed to do this successfully bar Kerry?

[Cluborcountywhynotboth]

I think exposure to playing a higher level is a big part, how we do that am not sure (more teams promoted/relegated, divisional teams etc...). You just have to look at the likes of Dungiven, Kilrea and Newbridge who have all played intermediate league in last 5/6 years, Kilrea finished mid table twice, Dungiven failed to win it and Newbridge I think only won it by a couple points in about 17/18.. Newbridge are now an established senior team with important county players, Dungiven comfortable mid table and Kilrea safe for another year. Yes we have had plenty of yo yo teams as well but giving more teams exposure and a pathway to senior football is in my opinion the way forward.

[harryR]

Could the answer be going the full Kerry model. Have an 8 division senior league and championship. Means that the senior matches will be very competitive and will also mean a good few very good teams will not make the top 8 and will therefore improve intermediate and junior football standards

[Sonny Joe]

Could the answer be going the full Kerry model. Have an 8 division senior league and championship. Means that the senior matches will be very competitive and will also mean a good few very good teams will not make the top 8 and will therefore improve intermediate and junior football standards

You have just excluded their divisional teams who play in the senior championship, which is where their players get exposed to this high level of football, and here's the another critical factor, the divisional stuff in Kerry starts at u16/15 level. Therefore their kids are ingrained in the culture of playing for their divisional team.

[Link]

Not sure how this all fits but north Derry vocational schools players seems to be ignored largely, this may have changed recently. But I remember St Mary's Limavady playing and wining county championships every year under Micky Moran and those lads never got a look in for development squads, never mind minor squads. Whereas counterparts from the big clubs got the call up, I see the reasoning on both side. If they did make the cut it was generally as men to go in an break ball etc. North Derry players I suspect have a higher drop out rate, plenty of things at play here but ultimately playing Junior or bottom intermediate football is quite the commitment at times and you're never going to put on a county jersey.

There should be acceptance that the Derry Senior set up is basically 100% South Derry, its the elephant in the room.

The implementation of Kerry style model e.g. David Clifford aka East Kerry for North Derry could be something to consider. It may sound ridiculous but they basically need an All-Star North Derry entered into the Senior championship, how would they do, hard to know? But it may give confidence to North Derry, additional support into the club game, something for players to aspire to and show there skills against the best. Or they just continue to ignore the Elephant.

Problem with this, is if the best 15 north Derry players where put in a team (from what I've saw) it would have a few dungiven players, a few steelstown players and mostly alot of Coleraine players. These teams are all already playing senior football so would be ineligible

You haven't saw a whole pile if you think claudy, drumsurn, faughanvale, drum, foreglen woudn't have players on a north derry select.

[Will it ever end]

Lads I recall being at a meeting on behalf of my club at the time of the Games development strategy and divisional teams were very strongly part of it, whatever happened to it? It was promoted by the County Board, they haven't followed through on it.  I thought it was a excellent idea. Surely getting divisional teams into the senior league for a start and have their games on Wednesdays to allow junior and intermediate teams to play away in their own club league at weekends is a sensibly starting point. Its a decent pathway for developing and exposing players to a higher standard of football?

You want lads to train with their clubs twice a week & play a senior divisional game midweek and a junior / intermediate game at the weekend, along with two competing managers & the fixtures headache that would bring - a complete non runner.

[JoG2]

Lads I recall being at a meeting on behalf of my club at the time of the Games development strategy and divisional teams were very strongly part of it, whatever happened to it? It was promoted by the County Board, they haven't followed through on it.  I thought it was a excellent idea. Surely getting divisional teams into the senior league for a start and have their games on Wednesdays to allow junior and intermediate teams to play away in their own club league at weekends is a sensibly starting point. Its a decent pathway for developing and exposing players to a higher standard of football?

You want lads to train with their clubs twice a week & play a senior divisional game midweek and a junior / intermediate game at the weekend, along with two competing managers & the fixtures headache that would bring - a complete non runner.

That's the spirit! 

[shawshank]

Lads I recall being at a meeting on behalf of my club at the time of the Games development strategy and divisional teams were very strongly part of it, whatever happened to it? It was promoted by the County Board, they haven't followed through on it.  I thought it was a excellent idea. Surely getting divisional teams into the senior league for a start and have their games on Wednesdays to allow junior and intermediate teams to play away in their own club league at weekends is a sensibly starting point. Its a decent pathway for developing and exposing players to a higher standard of football?

You want lads to train with their clubs twice a week & play a senior divisional game midweek and a junior / intermediate game at the weekend, along with two competing managers & the fixtures headache that would bring - a complete non runner.

No those 1/2 players from each club making up the divisional side don't need to train as much if they are getting extra matches. The whole idea is to be exposed to football matches at a higher level for a longer period i.e. senior league, with the outcome they become better players. Surely beats the shit out of training. If we apply hat model to this season it means they have games from mid April to the second week of July. What's not to like about it. I know at the meeting I was at the junior and intermediate clubs at that time were keen on the idea. Imagine a very promising 18 yr with potential coming through and getting exposed to that model for 4 successive seasons, by 22 the club itself would have a better player never mind his potential for stepping into the county squad. This model wouldn't be for 28-30 yr olds, is for exposing young players to a higher level of football for their development. The manager thing is not an issue if the club buys into it. The clubs manager does what he is told to do, he does not get to prevent a young players development. he will still have him for all his league games and will have full access to him for championship. Similiar to our existing county players now. Thats me thinking out loud. 

[Wildweasel74]

The problem is good underage players of the size necessary to play county football down the line are lost. Harkin the limavady goalkeeper, Curran who played for, Doire Colncille a no. of years ago,  M Collins of Ogra. The big Derry minor  midfielder from Lissan, a few years ago. These lads are lost after minor, few yrs playing Junior fball and they gone and it's too late to get anything out of them. It's having sthing in place that them and lads who played minor but are on intermediate teams aren't lost providing a wider player pool.

[statto]

The problem is good underage players of the size necessary to play county football down the line are lost. Harkin the limavady goalkeeper, Curran who played for, Doire Colncille a no. of years ago,  M Collins of Ogra. The bid Derry minor  midfielder from Lissan, a few years ago. These lads are lost after minor, few yrs playing Junior fball and they gone and it's too late to get anything out of them. It's having sthing in place that them and lads who played minor but are on intermediate teams aren't lost providing a wider player pool.

That's not always the case Brendan Donaghy a tremendous servant for Armagh and a top class defender would have played most of his club football at junior/lower intermediate level.  Paddy Burns, Jemar Hall and Stephen Sheridan would have played a lot of junior football/lower intermediate level also.  If a player genuinely has aspirations to be the best they can be they will be.  (Admittedly easier if playing at higher level within professional setup)

Within Armagh currently there are a number of county players playing intermediate, Murnin, Nugent, Mcquillan, Duffy, Woods, Rowland, Conaty.  Mackins x2 & McCabe won intermediate championship last year so have now transitioned to senior level.   

Are there many Derry players involved with intermediate sides?