Search for New Mayo Manager

[muppet]

Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.

In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.

I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.

If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.

I'd agree with most of that. A lot of people here focusing on the wrong issues. Due to the shambolic appointment process, H and C were never going to be able to fully command the respect of the group. This is an essential for an intercounty team with genuine all-Ireland ambitions so they just had to go. Unfortunately, it could have been handled a lot better by all parties involved.

In my view, the recent interview did however reveal two very significant events. 1. Séamie O Shea requesting that Hennelly start the Galway game in 2015 and 2. Aidan O Shea questioning the omission of a player from the squad via email. Now some Mayo supporters may view these as minor incidents but I don't see it that way. While I'm aware that the old 'dictator' style of management wont cut it in the modern era, the reasons outlined above show why there has to be a line with regard to team selection.

Nobody except the people involved know the exact truth behind the Rob Hennelly decision in this years final. These two incidents do however give a certain amount of credence to the story we've all heard. If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection, it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.

This is typical of the discussion and the interpolations being made.

Where is it claimed in the article that AOS contacted the manager about a team selection?

The article stated that AOS sent an email to management questioning the omission of player from the match day 26. 'That's questioning team selection in my book.'

Does your book state that a Gaelic football team has 26 players?

Anyway, tell us, who did Aiden O'Shea have picked for the drawn All-Ireland Final after his conversation during the semi-final?

I'm not going to get into an argument over the definition of the word 'team'. You can dress it up whatever way you like but the relevant email involved AOS questioning management's selections and to me that is crossing the line. You obviously don't see it that way so we'll have to disagree.

I never said that Aidan O Shea tried to have anyone picked in a conversation during the semi-final. I brought up the semi-final as I believe the fact that AOS sat beside SR at the match shows that they have a closer than normal player-manager relationship.

This is what you said ffs!

'it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.'

[Dubhaltach]

Although I'm someone who has always defended a player's right to question their management I can't agree with some of the criticism of H&C here. Amateur players have every right to expect to be led by competent management but likewise, that management have every right to respond to criticism, so those saying they've lost respect for H&C are bang out of order IMO. They waited for the right time to do this and are fully entitled to defend their reputation and record as the Mayo management.

In saying that, I think they were wrong to take the Mayo position in the circumstances they did as I believe you need players on your side from the get go and as they didn't have that they should have waited for another opportunity.

I am surprised by those saying it's no big deal for players to question selections though. I think players should question logistics, medical and training if they feel it is not up to scratch but team selection is a big no no. That's crossing a line IMO and is not simply adults discussing aspects of the team. If I was David Clarke and knew SOS was lobbying for his own clubman to have my position then where do you go? Do I go to management and tell them that I want SOS dropped as I don't like the timing of his runs as much as another midfielder? No, that's a line you can't allow be crossed. As long as the management are giving you a fair chance to win you place on the team then that's all you can expect.

If H&C weren't up to it then fair enough but I'm surprised that so many Mayo posters are dismissing most of what H&C are saying as I wouldn't like what I'm hearing about the players if I were them.

I'd agree with most of that. A lot of people here focusing on the wrong issues. Due to the shambolic appointment process, H and C were never going to be able to fully command the respect of the group. This is an essential for an intercounty team with genuine all-Ireland ambitions so they just had to go. Unfortunately, it could have been handled a lot better by all parties involved.

In my view, the recent interview did however reveal two very significant events. 1. Séamie O Shea requesting that Hennelly start the Galway game in 2015 and 2. Aidan O Shea questioning the omission of a player from the squad via email. Now some Mayo supporters may view these as minor incidents but I don't see it that way. While I'm aware that the old 'dictator' style of management wont cut it in the modern era, the reasons outlined above show why there has to be a line with regard to team selection.

Nobody except the people involved know the exact truth behind the Rob Hennelly decision in this years final. These two incidents do however give a certain amount of credence to the story we've all heard. If AOS was willing to contact a manager that he didn't particualry get on with about team selection, it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.

This is typical of the discussion and the interpolations being made.

Where is it claimed in the article that AOS contacted the manager about a team selection?

The article stated that AOS sent an email to management questioning the omission of player from the match day 26. 'That's questioning team selection in my book.'

Does your book state that a Gaelic football team has 26 players?

Anyway, tell us, who did Aiden O'Shea have picked for the drawn All-Ireland Final after his conversation during the semi-final?

I'm not going to get into an argument over the definition of the word 'team'. You can dress it up whatever way you like but the relevant email involved AOS questioning management's selections and to me that is crossing the line. You obviously don't see it that way so we'll have to disagree.

I never said that Aidan O Shea tried to have anyone picked in a conversation during the semi-final. I brought up the semi-final as I believe the fact that AOS sat beside SR at the match shows that they have a closer than normal player-manager relationship.

This is what you said ffs!

'it's not a far stretch to suggest that he was plugging a certain selection to a manager that he sat beside at this years Dublin v Kerry Semi final.'

Exactly, to a manager that he sat beside. I didn't say he was plugging it there and then. (I also didn't say that he definitely did do it either by the way)

[muppet]

Do you have 'closer than normal' relationship with everyone you sat beside at a match?

[Itchy]

Yeah, but you have to look at these things in context.
Which is, a small group of 'senior' players were the driving force behind the letter to the county board.
H & C have pretty much told us who those players were and incidents like those described above might explain some of their motivation.

You sure do, Jinxy, you sure do.
But if your want to put events in their proper perspective, you'd need to go back a long, long time before Martin Breheny's bizarre 'exclusive' was published on Saturday.
Bear in mind that what was announced as an in-depth interview (scoop if you like)  turned out to be a vehicle for the duo to present a rambling petulant account of their grievances.
For beginners, how did the controversy over Eugene Rooney's 'fundraiser' affect the relationship between H&C and the players on their panel? There's a classic non-sequitur if there ever was one.
What bearing did Noel Howley's spat with H&C have to do with the decision by the players to ditch the awesome twosome?
Neither Breheny or the pair of boyos alluded to the fact that the players had wanted a two-man delegation to put their views to the CB and to do so in such a way that the managers could step down without loss of personal dignity.
The original plan to conduct affairs in confidence was blown out of the water when news of the impending meeting broke. What happened next?
The entire panel, regardless of the way they voted, marched en masse in the meeting with the CB and planted their demands in front of the surprised officials. Now, going by what Breheny and his acolyte Sweeney had to say, the players leaked details of the letter's contents.
I don't imagine that it should take a genius to figure out the the players feel that someone on the CB side did the squealing.
That is the account that was carried by the local papers at the time and that is more or less what appeared in a Sindo article the following Sunday. (Can't recall the name of the reporter who submitted it.)
My point is that none of the involved parties; players, management or CB challenged what was reported. So unless, there is some credible evidence to the contrary, I will accept that it's true.
Something that deserves to be noted is the players' assessment of why they had come up short under Horan.
According to the pair: "They told us that tactics and match-ups were wrong, opposition analysis was kpoor, there was a lack of adaptability and they had no defensive plan. They also highlighted some errors for goals and also occasions when they turned the ball over to easily."
And now for the clincher: "Apart from the last two points, the losses were attributed to factors outside their control."
Jesus wept! (Haven't a clue what that means but I always wanted to stick in in somewhere.  )
That for any one who takes any sort of interest in Mayo football is exactly what happened.
Horan had many fine qualities and earned a lot of respect from his players but his lack of tactical nous and his unwillingness to consider the opinions of others cost Mayo dearly.
The players were dead on in their assessment of what the causes of their repeated failures could be attributed to and Breheny, who should have known better, let this ass without comment.
I don't think many, if any, Mayo fans would be happy if it turned out that some players were running the show to the general detriment of the side but innuendo and insinuations apart, there was feck all in the 'scoop' to prove that this is what caused the crew to make their managers walk the plank.

I read that as saying the Mayo players took none/very little responsibility for their actions. If I were over a team and held a meeting at the start of the year and players came out with all that I would think exactly the same.

'They also highlighted some errors for goals and also some occasions when they turned the ball over to (sic) easily'.

Did you miss that bit?

No didn't miss it. To me that's like going to confessions and admitting to saying bad words. Those were descriptions of making mistakes. I'd expect things from players like losing focus under pressure, hiding on the field,not taking responsibility etc.

[Dubhaltach]

Do you have 'closer than normal' relationship with everyone you sat beside at a match?

Have you any other examples of a manager sitting beside a key player when analysing the opposition at a big inter-county championship match?

[Il Bomber Destro]

Some of the Mayo players could do with listening to the words of the great Gigi Buffon today:

"In my life I haven't lost much, but the defeats have taught me more than victories. When I lose I focus on the skill of my opponents and my mistakes. The correct way is not to look for excuses.

"I've made endless mistakes, and I still make them, but I'm never ashamed to reveal the reason for my mistakes."

Maybe if they adopted that approach, took on board a little introspection, rather than trying to railroad their management team over precious slights to their hubris then who knows what they could achieve.

[dublin7]

Some of the Mayo players could do with listening to the words of the great Gigi Buffon today:

"In my life I haven't lost much, but the defeats have taught me more than victories. When I lose I focus on the skill of my opponents and my mistakes. The correct way is not to look for excuses.

"I've made endless mistakes, and I still make them, but I'm never ashamed to reveal the reason for my mistakes."

Maybe if they adopted that approach, took on board a little introspection, rather than trying to railroad their management team over precious slights to their hubris then who knows what they could achieve.

I'd question how Aidan O'Shea can head off to Sunderland mid season for a mickey mouse tv show and no one from Mayo had a problem with it except H&C.

Aidan O'Shea would have fit in perfectly to Pillar Caffrey's dublin. Looks like an all star against weaker teams when the team is running up big scores but when the team is under pressure and looking for leaders he disappears.

[INDIANA]

Some of the Mayo players could do with listening to the words of the great Gigi Buffon today:

"In my life I haven't lost much, but the defeats have taught me more than victories. When I lose I focus on the skill of my opponents and my mistakes. The correct way is not to look for excuses.

"I've made endless mistakes, and I still make them, but I'm never ashamed to reveal the reason for my mistakes."

Maybe if they adopted that approach, took on board a little introspection, rather than trying to railroad their management team over precious slights to their hubris then who knows what they could achieve.

I'd question how Aidan O'Shea can head off to Sunderland mid season for a mickey mouse tv show and no one from Mayo had a problem with it except H&C.

Aidan O'Shea would have fit in perfectly to Pillar Caffrey's dublin. Looks like an all star against weaker teams when the team is running up big scores but when the team is under pressure and looking for leaders he disappears.

In a nutshell.

[Halfquarter]

I hope that Holmes and Connelly were well rewarded for their treachery, they will need it.

[criostlinn]

Some of the Mayo players could do with listening to the words of the great Gigi Buffon today:

"In my life I haven't lost much, but the defeats have taught me more than victories. When I lose I focus on the skill of my opponents and my mistakes. The correct way is not to look for excuses.

"I've made endless mistakes, and I still make them, but I'm never ashamed to reveal the reason for my mistakes."

Maybe if they adopted that approach, took on board a little introspection, rather than trying to railroad their management team over precious slights to their hubris then who knows what they could achieve.

I'd question how Aidan O'Shea can head off to Sunderland mid season for a mickey mouse tv show and no one from Mayo had a problem with it except H&C.

Aidan O'Shea would have fit in perfectly to Pillar Caffrey's dublin. Looks like an all star against weaker teams when the team is running up big scores but when the team is under pressure and looking for leaders he disappears.

In a nutshell.

Ah ya that's it. In a nutshell alright. Sure Brian Cody or Michael Ryan wouldn't stand for this shite . I' ll tell you one thing Aiden O'Shea was lucky to have Pat Holmes looking after his private affairs, and look how he repaid him. He had the cheek to send him an email. Shocking stuff altogether.

In other news, even though LeeKeegan has become the new villian for the Dubs its good to see the obsession in AOS shows no sign of easing.

[blast05]

I'd question how Aidan O'Shea can head off to Sunderland mid season for a mickey mouse tv show and no one from Mayo had a problem with it except H&C.

I guess you'd question Brendan Maher as well then.

[INDIANA]

Some of the Mayo players could do with listening to the words of the great Gigi Buffon today:

"In my life I haven't lost much, but the defeats have taught me more than victories. When I lose I focus on the skill of my opponents and my mistakes. The correct way is not to look for excuses.

"I've made endless mistakes, and I still make them, but I'm never ashamed to reveal the reason for my mistakes."

Maybe if they adopted that approach, took on board a little introspection, rather than trying to railroad their management team over precious slights to their hubris then who knows what they could achieve.

I'd question how Aidan O'Shea can head off to Sunderland mid season for a mickey mouse tv show and no one from Mayo had a problem with it except H&C.

Aidan O'Shea would have fit in perfectly to Pillar Caffrey's dublin. Looks like an all star against weaker teams when the team is running up big scores but when the team is under pressure and looking for leaders he disappears.

In a nutshell.

Ah ya that's it. In a nutshell alright. Sure Brian Cody or Michael Ryan wouldn't stand for this shite . I' ll tell you one thing Aiden O'Shea was lucky to have Pat Holmes looking after his private affairs, and look how he repaid him. He had the cheek to send him an email. Shocking stuff altogether.

In other news, even though LeeKeegan has become the new villian for the Dubs its good to see the obsession in AOS shows no sign of easing.

Real Dublin GAA fans wish keegan was playing for us. That's how highly rated he is.

Aidan O Se is seem for what his performances have deemed him to be - a great player against average teams

But continue with the paranoia and blame everyone else culture by all means

Look how far it's got you

[criostlinn]

Some of the Mayo players could do with listening to the words of the great Gigi Buffon today:

"In my life I haven't lost much, but the defeats have taught me more than victories. When I lose I focus on the skill of my opponents and my mistakes. The correct way is not to look for excuses.

"I've made endless mistakes, and I still make them, but I'm never ashamed to reveal the reason for my mistakes."

Maybe if they adopted that approach, took on board a little introspection, rather than trying to railroad their management team over precious slights to their hubris then who knows what they could achieve.

I'd question how Aidan O'Shea can head off to Sunderland mid season for a mickey mouse tv show and no one from Mayo had a problem with it except H&C.

Aidan O'Shea would have fit in perfectly to Pillar Caffrey's dublin. Looks like an all star against weaker teams when the team is running up big scores but when the team is under pressure and looking for leaders he disappears.

In a nutshell.

Ah ya that's it. In a nutshell alright. Sure Brian Cody or Michael Ryan wouldn't stand for this shite . I' ll tell you one thing Aiden O'Shea was lucky to have Pat Holmes looking after his private affairs, and look how he repaid him. He had the cheek to send him an email. Shocking stuff altogether.

In other news, even though LeeKeegan has become the new villian for the Dubs its good to see the obsession in AOS shows no sign of easing.

Real Dublin GAA fans wish keegan was playing for us. That's how highly rated he is.

Aidan O Se is seem for what his performances have deemed him to be - a great player against average teams

But continue with the paranoia and blame everyone else culture by all means

Look how far it's got you

Real Dublin fans. Will ya go way outta that. Some of the shite I've read about Lee Keegan from so called real dublin gaa fans like urself
I just wish Jim Gavin had the same opinion as you of Aiden O'Shea.

[dublin7]

Some of the Mayo players could do with listening to the words of the great Gigi Buffon today:

"In my life I haven't lost much, but the defeats have taught me more than victories. When I lose I focus on the skill of my opponents and my mistakes. The correct way is not to look for excuses.

"I've made endless mistakes, and I still make them, but I'm never ashamed to reveal the reason for my mistakes."

Maybe if they adopted that approach, took on board a little introspection, rather than trying to railroad their management team over precious slights to their hubris then who knows what they could achieve.

I'd question how Aidan O'Shea can head off to Sunderland mid season for a mickey mouse tv show and no one from Mayo had a problem with it except H&C.

Aidan O'Shea would have fit in perfectly to Pillar Caffrey's dublin. Looks like an all star against weaker teams when the team is running up big scores but when the team is under pressure and looking for leaders he disappears.

In a nutshell.

Ah ya that's it. In a nutshell alright. Sure Brian Cody or Michael Ryan wouldn't stand for this shite . I' ll tell you one thing Aiden O'Shea was lucky to have Pat Holmes looking after his private affairs, and look how he repaid him. He had the cheek to send him an email. Shocking stuff altogether.

In other news, even though LeeKeegan has become the new villian for the Dubs its good to see the obsession in AOS shows no sign of easing.

Lee Keegan is in a different league to AOS when it comes to football ability  and leadership on the pitch.  All AOS wants to do when he gets the ball is put the head down and try to barge his way through on goal.

He has never done it in any of the big games against Dublin were as Keegan has been a real leader. I personally think he is overrated and not a Team player

[criostlinn]

As for your childish remarks. " Blame everyone else blah de blah... look where it got you blah de blah"
Who am I blaming and for what.
So  all other counties who don't get near winning an All Ireland, is this what you reckon it boils down to. Blaming everyone else or is this just what is holding Mayo back.