Search for New Mayo Manager

[muppet]

"Claremorris have won the Minor A league and qualified for the A Ch/ship final with a team that had no representatives on the county minor team."

I understand some were invited. But they couldn't give the required physical and time commitment.

Given the proximity to Leaving Cert etc, for the first time in my life, I am actually leaning towards scrapping the County Minor Championship. The burden being placed on young lads still at school seems way over the top.

[Shrewdness]

Muppet, i see what you're saying about the Leaving Cert etc, but it's a nationwide problem. I've often heard of Roscommon Minors finishing their Leaving Cert on a Thursday or Friday, and then play a Connacht Minor Championship match on the Saturday or Sunday. It's a lot of pressure on young lads.

[AZOffaly]

Football is a release for a lot of those lads too. As long as their coaches, and the fixtures guys, are copped on, it should be manageable.


I remember being picked up at 3.30 in the afternoon one evening in 6th year, around April I'd say, and heading in a bus down to Cork to play the Cork minors in a challenge match at 7pm. We finished the game, and drove home, stopping in Thurles for food. Landed in Ferbane at 1am. We did our homework on the bus.

That was out of order, but we loved it

[Syferus]

Scrapping minor is a band aid to a problem that has little to do with the minor grade.  Plenty of time in the year if it's used correctly.

[muppet]

Football is a release for a lot of those lads too. As long as their coaches, and the fixtures guys, are copped on, it should be manageable.


I remember being picked up at 3.30 in the afternoon one evening in 6th year, around April I'd say, and heading in a bus down to Cork to play the Cork minors in a challenge match at 7pm. We finished the game, and drove home, stopping in Thurles for food. Landed in Ferbane at 1am. We did our homework on the bus.

That was out of order, but we loved it

Training minors, who are still at school, like professionals for many months is missing the point completely imho. If this continues you will see many more opting out of the grade.

[mrhardyannual]

Point well made Muppet, but is the solution to get rid of the competition and deprive all of what is a wonderful opportunity or make serious efforts to reform the system. All counties have agreed safeguards for underage players... closed seasons etc but insist on driving a coach and four through the same regulations. Training during Leaving Cert year is still a good idea and lads who learn the discipline of training and studying are generally the better for it. Many studies show that those engaged in high level sport do better than those who don't. But the mindless training that has been going on for the past few years threatens to destroy the sport. Reports that players are kept training until they get physically sick, are unable eat the food provided afterwards and finally unable to study when they get home are too common to be untrue. Surely the heavy S & C work could be left to the u21 stage and skill development etc be paramount at minor level.

I don't know what S&C work the Claremorris lads mentioned are doing if any, but surely if they are still ahead of all teams in the county , including all those on the county Minor and U 17 squads then the value of the work being done with the county teams must be called into question. Granted  a club may come upon an exceptional group of players at the one age group (and this may be the case here) but it would seem that these are better off out than in.

[muppet]

Point well made Muppet, but is the solution to get rid of the competition and deprive all of what is a wonderful opportunity or make serious efforts to reform the system. All counties have agreed safeguards for underage players... closed seasons etc but insist on driving a coach and four through the same regulations. Training during Leaving Cert year is still a good idea and lads who learn the discipline of training and studying are generally the better for it. Many studies show that those engaged in high level sport do better than those who don't. But the mindless training that has been going on for the past few years threatens to destroy the sport. Reports that players are kept training until they get physically sick, are unable eat the food provided afterwards and finally unable to study when they get home are too common to be untrue. Surely the heavy S & C work could be left to the u21 stage and skill development etc be paramount at minor level.

I don't know what S&C work the Claremorris lads mentioned are doing if any, but surely if they are still ahead of all teams in the county , including all those on the county Minor and U 17 squads then the value of the work being done with the county teams must be called into question. Granted  a club may come upon an exceptional group of players at the one age group (and this may be the case here) but it would seem that these are better off out than in.

Don't get me wrong, I have never even dreamt of scrapping minor level until I was home recently and heard about the level of training and injuries at that level in the last few years. The time and intensity involved nowadays are ridiculous.

[Mrs mills]

Would a typical week's training of 2 sessions (180 mins) look like this?

Warm ups                      40 mins
S&C work                       50 mins
Running                         15 mins
Drills                              30 mins
Games                           45 mins               
Individual Coaching           0 mins (excluding goalkeepers and free takers)

[muppet]

Would a typical week's training of 2 sessions (180 mins) look like this?

Warm ups                      40 mins
S&C work                       50 mins
Running                         15 mins
Drills                              30 mins
Games                           45 mins               
Individual Coaching           0 mins (excluding goalkeepers and free takers)

The right length anyway.

I am not sure how many days a week though, it may have been more than twice.

Throw in 15 minutes to get ready and 30 minutes shower and change etc afterwards, then say a 30 minute drive to a handy part of the county, and back, and that is 4 hours 45 mins away for everyone one of those sessions. 5 hours 45 if you are from Belmullet. Not great for Leaving Certs. In fact you could barely fit in any homework if it was a school night.

[Syferus]

Would a typical week's training of 2 sessions (180 mins) look like this?

Warm ups                      40 mins
S&C work                       50 mins
Running                         15 mins
Drills                              30 mins
Games                           45 mins               
Individual Coaching           0 mins (excluding goalkeepers and free takers)

The right length anyway.

I am not sure how many days a week though, it may have been more than twice.

Throw in 15 minutes to get ready and 30 minutes shower and change etc afterwards, then say a 30 minute drive to a handy part of the county, and back, and that is 4 hours 45 mins away for everyone one of those sessions. 5 hours 45 if you are from Belmullet. Not great for Leaving Certs. In fact you could barely fit in any homework if it was a school night.

Avoiding doing homework is probably an advantage of it for most Leaving Certs.

[AZOffaly]

Underage means different things, in different counties.

In counties like Kerry, Dublin, Kilkenny in hurling, you don't necessarily need your underage teams to be winning championships, but you need them to be competitive and producing at least a couple of players every year that are capable of moving onto the senior panels. Constant rejuvenation as such.

In counties that are not historically successful, you need a batch every now and then to seed a new dawn. See Tyrone as a great example back in the late 90s, early noughties. So if you are a team from nowhere, and you win an All Ireland or two at underage, it is a great shot in the arm. The challenge of course is to back that batch up by developing them into senior players, and then backfilling a production line behind them with the competitive teams producing smaller batches.

It's not sustainable to think you can (or need to ) produce All Ireland winning minors every year.

[bucko]

A recent article in the papers interviewed quoted a doctor involved in sports science/medicine saying, in her opinion, that the use of adult training methods with underage players is a major factor in some of the serious, long term injuries picked up by young players. The large amount of cruciate injuries suffered by players in their early 20s the last few years and the list of Mayo minors from 2013 with hip, knee etc injuries would be good evidence to back this claim up. That and consideration for player welfare is an issue. He may have managed the squad to an All Ireland, but Gilvarry went down in my estimation by leaving Cian Hanly on the pitch for a fair length of time after he had sustained a clearly serious knee injury in the 2014 semi final against Kerry. I don't think the minor grade should be scrapped, but the mentality around it has to change as the expectation, commitment and workload required is excessive for young lads and not sustainable in the long run.

[Tubberman]

A recent article in the papers interviewed quoted a doctor involved in sports science/medicine saying, in her opinion, that the use of adult training methods with underage players is a major factor in some of the serious, long term injuries picked up by young players. The large amount of cruciate injuries suffered by players in their early 20s the last few years and the list of Mayo minors from 2013 with hip, knee etc injuries would be good evidence to back this claim up. That and consideration for player welfare is an issue. He may have managed the squad to an All Ireland, but Gilvarry went down in my estimation by leaving Cian Hanly on the pitch for a fair length of time after he had sustained a clearly serious knee injury in the 2014 semi final against Kerry. I don't think the minor grade should be scrapped, but the mentality around it has to change as the expectation, commitment and workload required is excessive for young lads and not sustainable in the long run.

That was very difficult to watch - he repeatedly crumpled in a heap, clearly seriously injured and was left on the field. Everyone around me was shouting for him to be taken off.

[Rossfan]

. So if you are a team from nowhere, and you win an All Ireland or two at underage, it is a great shot in the arm. The challenge of course is to back that batch up by developing them into senior players, and then backfilling a production line behind them with the competitive teams producing smaller batches.

Two biggest dangers in that scenario -
* Young gasúns become celebrities and won't be able to engage in the hard slog /committment to develop further
* They get thrown too soon into the black hole that is a bad County Senior team and get their confidence destroyed by a few bad hammerings.

I suspect we'll have at most 4 of our 2006 Minors on  next year's panel ( 3 of whom were minors in 07 too - so one of the class on 1988).
I think 14 of the 2012 U21 squad that reached the AI Final have worn the County Senior jersey - I suspect only 6/7 will be on next year's panel.
But to get back to our "lovely neighbours" - any one nominated yet or is there a "process" underway or...?

[AZOffaly]

Yes, to be honest the 'I'm a great fella' syndrome is probably the easier managed of the two. The challenge of when to introduce them, and at a level where they won't be immediately shot to pieces confidence wise is the trick. That's one of the big worries in Tipp. A lot of lads in recent years have come through without ever losing to Kerry for example. Then this year Kerry beat them, handily, by 6 points pulling up. How do you continue to build the confidence so that one day soon they will have developed enough to have a right crack at Kerry. That's where the league is very important, and that's why I'm sure Tipp will continue to try and rise through the leagues.