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[More controversial perhaps, I admire Arlene Foster who crossed deep sectarian divides to attend the Harte funeral.]

I have great respect for Mickey Harte because of his dtremendous dignity under pressure as he coped with the death of his daughter. I have reservations about much that Mickey has done but, like Aidan McGinely of recent times., Mickey and his wife were an inspitation to us all.
More controversial perhaps, I admire Arlene Foster who crossed deep sectarian divides to attend the Harte funeral.

Jesus Christ I am only after seeing this beauty. You admire a sectarian bigot for momentarily setting aside her sectarianism to attend the funeral of a catholic girl murdered in a foreign country on her honeymoon. There was no "deep sectarian divide" to cross - what a bizarre thing to say. I think it shows the total lack of understanding you have for matters in the North.

Good man Itchy,  you're in flying form as always!
(And, as usual, you are missing my point.)
That's no surprise as it takes a pretty open-minded, non-judgemental individual; one who doesn't see everything in black or white terms, to understand what I mean.
I know I shouldn't bother my posterior even attempting a reply but maybe there are more tolerant nationalists who will appreciate what I am trying to say.

Not everybody who was traumatised by what they experienced in childhood is a Catholic and the young Arlene Kelly is no exception.  Protestant children know just as little about poolitics or religious discrimination as Catholic kids do.
As an 8 year old, her daddy barely survived an assassination attempt on his life. As she grew older, she found out that the man suspected of the attempt on her father's life is regarded as a hero by a large section of the nationalist community.
As a teenager, the Provos tried to assassinate the driver of the school bus she was on. Her best pal was killed and she was badly injured by the blast. To kill one unsuspecting adult, those who planted the bomb were prepared to put the lives of innocent children at risk.
After all that, how can anyone expect her not to be bitter?
What she did by going to the Harte funeral and also turning up at a Gaelic football game made her few friends on the nationalist side but made her countless enemies on her side of the fence.
I admire her for that and I  don't give two flying fiddlesticks if anybody wants to disagree with me.

[More controversial perhaps, I admire Arlene Foster who crossed deep sectarian divides to attend the Harte funeral.]

I have great respect for Mickey Harte because of his dtremendous dignity under pressure as he coped with the death of his daughter. I have reservations about much that Mickey has done but, like Aidan McGinely of recent times., Mickey and his wife were an inspitation to us all.
More controversial perhaps, I admire Arlene Foster who crossed deep sectarian divides to attend the Harte funeral.

I do not understand this in the slightest

What do you not understand? Do you think she should not have attended in order to conform with the usual stereotypes? Her religious beliefs prevented here attending the mass but she turned up for the graveside ceremonies and in doing so she probably upset more of her own supporters than anyone else.
There was nothing to be gained politically by her going there- just a token of respect for the ordeal the Harte and McAravey families were going through.

Not a fan of JB at all,  but he's 100% right to pull a national broadcaster in its bias
Hope he wins,  and more importantly opens some peoples eyes

Claire Byrne cut him short when he began to  criticise Geoffrey who had  just left the studio. She told him that is was unacceptable to personally abuse anyone who wasn't  there to defend himself. She did emphasise however, that he was free to continue participating if he chose to as long as he avoided passing personal derogatory remarks about anyone who wasn't present.
Joe began to remonstrate as Claire repeated her warning and his sound was cut off. Before the camera was switched elsewhere, Joe could be seen waving his hands and obviously shouting.
Claire then explained to the other studio guests, and to her audience, that Joe was quite  welcome to rejoin in the discussion but that it was a breach of RTE 's policy to allow personal abuse of anyone unabnot in a position to defend themselves.
She added that she had personally invited Joe to participate and that she hoped he would do so.
Obviously. he didn't do so.
I believe that Joe took the hump because he was dropped from TSG and this is his way of getting his own back.

Roscommon and Galway both strong favourites here. Were told here how competitive Connacht is. Time for Galway and the Rossies to shit or get off the pot. Mayo will need a competitive for their All Ireland semifinal.

Galway and Roscommon don't exist just to improve Mayo's AI chances. They'll be hoping to nab the Nestor Cup themselves and I would not bet against either claiming a Connacht Title.

Will ya get away up the yard, will ya?
Mayo will clock the pair of yiz.

I have great respect for Mickey Harte because of his dtremendous dignity under pressure as he coped with the death of his daughter. I have reservations about much that Mickey has done but, like Aidan McGinely of recent times., Mickey and his wife were an inspitation to us all.
More controversial perhaps, I admire Arlene Foster who crossed deep sectarian divides to attend the Harte funeral.

[they are saying this is their year to win it. . .]

They have clifford and sean o se who are capable of beating the Dublin defence , no other county have forwards next to near that type of talent and that's why they could come close . Dublin v kerry final is odds on imo . Should be a cracker too. Just a shame it will be a near enough empty croke park again . It's a nothing occasion tbh without a packed croke park,  hard to get excited about it in that sense .

Both a joy to watch, so young too, will win a few IMO

A few All Stars maybe. Kerry will be under pressure to win Munster, but they're under as much pressure to win the All Ireland as Derry are. Same for every other county.

Are you saying there is no pressure on Kerry to win the All Ireland, thats not accurate, they expect big things from this current crop and management, talking to some of animals down there, they are saying this is their year to win it. . .

Yerra, musha, they are saying that every year. 
They won easy enough against a piss poor Galway side and the likes of Brolly are talking up their chances of going the whole way this year. Sure, Clifford is class but Dublin took care of him in the replay game in 2019 and did the same for Ó Se.
Kerry would need at least another thirteen like the pair of them to stand a chance.
Having said that, I won't expect either manager to show his hand on Sunday. I can't  see either side going flat out.

A glance at the stats shows Clifford scored 5 points in that final replay, 4 from play. I would say that's good going for any player in an All-Ireland final, let alone a 20-year-old in hi second season at senior level.  O'Shea also got 5 points, 2 of them from play.

Agree the weekend's game will mean little when it comes to serious business in the championship - Galway's performance was one of the worst seen in a div 1 game in recent years.

True, but he waqs held scoreless in the last 15 minutes or so when Dublin put on the pressure and looked out on his feet at the final whistle. Dublin's level of aerobic fitness was far superior to kerry's.

[they are saying this is their year to win it. . .]

They have clifford and sean o se who are capable of beating the Dublin defence , no other county have forwards next to near that type of talent and that's why they could come close . Dublin v kerry final is odds on imo . Should be a cracker too. Just a shame it will be a near enough empty croke park again . It's a nothing occasion tbh without a packed croke park,  hard to get excited about it in that sense .

Both a joy to watch, so young too, will win a few IMO

A few All Stars maybe. Kerry will be under pressure to win Munster, but they're under as much pressure to win the All Ireland as Derry are. Same for every other county.

Are you saying there is no pressure on Kerry to win the All Ireland, thats not accurate, they expect big things from this current crop and management, talking to some of animals down there, they are saying this is their year to win it. . .

Yerra, musha, they are saying that every year. 
They won easy enough against a piss poor Galway side and the likes of Brolly are talking up their chances of going the whole way this year. Sure, Clifford is class but Dublin took care of him in the replay game in 2019 and did the same for Ó Se.
Kerry would need at least another thirteen like the pair of them to stand a chance.
Having said that, I won't expect either manager to show his hand on Sunday. I can't  see either side going flat out.

This sis a great speech Bernadette McAliskey gave last Friday night at our solidarity rally in Dungannon.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=op8K0HJDqoU

What a wonderful speech. Bernadette McAliskey is so impressive.

+1

[They have clifford and sean o se who are capable of beating the Dublin defence]

They have clifford and sean o se who are capable of beating the Dublin defence , no other county have forwards next to near that type of talent and that's why they could come close . Dublin v kerry final is odds on imo . Should be a cracker too. Just a shame it will be a near enough empty croke park again . It's a nothing occasion tbh without a packed croke park,  hard to get excited about it in that sense .

Two good lads without a doubt but you need a lot more than two to win an AI and Kerry come up short in too many positions. Geaney appears to have fallen out with Peter Keane and Moran is getting a bit too long in the tooth to stick the pace with Dublin for a full game.
I can't think of anyone else who'd cause Dessie Farrell to lose any sleep.
Like Mayo  before them, Kerry ran Dublin close in the '19 final but got swept away in the replay. They didn't have the aerobic fitness to last the pace.
Clifford,  for instance, was out on his feet for the last 20 minutes or so- he had been dragged all over the field by Jonny Cooper, a much older man. In truth, all the Kerry players were banjaxed by the end. Same as Mayo in the '15 replay, the Dubs' superior fitness was the deciding factor in the end.
There is always the chance that the Dubs could have an occasional off-day but I won't hold my breath waiting for this to happen.

The Old IRA failed too to get the Brits out.

Many Brits in Mayo over the last 100 years?

Far from me be it open up another front but if one wants to give credit to the people who did most to gain Irish (partial) independence, the Black and Tans must be given credit where it's rightfully due.
The bastards won Ireland's freedom by default.
The heinousness of their actions caused so much revulsion amongst the British general public  that the pressure on Lloyd George to reach an agreement with his adversaries was overpowering. He just had to call off the tans.
The same thing was happening in the US where Dev had been on a fundraising campaign and the very large Irish American faction had been pressurising Woodrow Wilson to force Lloyd George to end the war.  Most impartial commentators felt that a stalemate had been reached in the war; neither the Crown forces nor the IRA could overcome the other and a state of stalemate existed. Imo, you had a similar situation at the end of the more recent troubles; bothe the security forces and the Provos  realised that neither could gain an outright victory and both were sick of conflict after close on 40 years of fighting.

I'm not the one defending wrongs done by the old IRA but you and the other Provo supporters won't accept criticism of your heroes.
Your only reaction is  But the old IRA....
From what I've read of Dunmanway (not Harris) some were said to be informers, more was likely naked sectarianism but didn't Collins or other Senior people go down and stopped it?

I've often criticised certain PIRA actions as unjustifiable and have no problem whatsoever in doing so. Seems to me as more a case that many southern posters here will refuse to criticise the Old IRA and get very defensive when their own metrics for applying the "terrorists" label to the PIRA are found to be equally suited to the Old IRA. My position is entirely consistent: both groups carried out unjustifiable actions but neither group was terrorist.

+1
Have to totally agree

[The only team under pressure is Dublin as its basically Dublins All Ireland to lose however I don't think they'll be put under much pressure as the challengers are either in transition and not good enough to challenge.]

Separate but linked to give hope to others, this year alone, PSG, Juventus , Celtics hold on their respective leagues has been broken . . .

PSG for some daft reason got rid of Tuchel. Juventus likewise got rid of experienced manager only worse they replaced him with a rookie. Celtic not worth talking about.

Not really comparable with Dublin. Dessie Farrell has already landed the All Ireland a smooth transition from the departure of smirking Jim Gavin.   The only team under pressure is Dublin as its basically Dublins All Ireland to lose however I don't think they'll be put under much pressure as the challengers are either in transition and not good enough to challenge.

That's the long and the short of it; it is very definitely Dublin's to lose and will be for the foreseeable future. They just might be caught on the hop occasionally as happened with Donegal in 2014 and Mayo and Kerry brought them to replays but there was no doubt in each replay that Dublin were the better side and there was no doubting the result from an early stage.
Kerry's days of dominance are over and while I could see them snatching an odd win, it will be a case of Dublin losing rather than Kerry (or anybody else) winning in any given year.
Tradition doesn't count for much in the modern game. Money counts more than anything else and Mayo, Tyrone and maybe three or four other counties can hire the best coaching personnel and provide the best training facilities than can be had. None of them will fear Kerry. Dublin is another matter but the days when other teams were intimidated by the sight of a Kerry jersey have gone forever.

[SF had a landslide in the 1918 election.]

One of the big differences between the Old IRA and the PIRA was the level of popular support. the Old IRA had over 80% of the population onside
The PIRA didn't even have 40%.
That is a massive difference in a revolutionary war.

Interesting numbers. Both them. Source?

SF had a landslide in the 1918 election. Catholics in S. Ireland were at least 80% and strongly nationalist
In NI in the late 60s the catholic population was max 40% and taking half as supporting the armed struggle would be generous. 


There's a parallel with the SNP in Scotland now. They don't have enough of a majority to definitely win an independence vote. They would need to be at 70% or more for that,
In NI the population now  is split 50/50.

They sure did win by a landslide but I doubt if the methods they used to achieve this could be used today.  The returns saw SF winning 73 seats, the unionists won26 and the old parliamentary party only won 6.
So the shinners won comfortably or so it seemed.
They were returned unopposed in 26 constituencies because they had kindly offered to shoot any nationalist who stood against them and the old redmondites were unable to find  candidates to stand for them in the places where the Shinners had a clear run.
According toi the historian JC Beckettt: " The victory was less sweeping than it seemed; it received less than half the votes in the remainder, and it is very probable that a a good many of those votes reflected anger against the government and contempt for the home rule party than convinced support for a full republican programme. But this did not alter the fact that Sinn Fein could now claim, with justice, to represent majority opinion in Ireland."

[terrorist-supporting]

When you have jackasses like Cullinane singing 'Up the Ra' on the night he is re-elected, can you blame them? What message does that send out to the wider world? That 'official Ireland' is tolerant of terrorist-supporting politicians?

"Terrorist"? Were the Old IRA also "terrorists"?

The Provos were absolutely terrorists. As John Hume often said, many of the actions of the Provo terrorists were indefensible. 'Whatabouterry' doesn't change that and certainly doesn't make those acts of terror defensible.

1. I didn't ask if you if the PIRA were terrorists. I asked if the Old IRA were.
2. I didn't actually ask you anything. My question was in reply to Mouview.
3. Since you have decided to get involved, maybe you can tell us if you also believe the Old IRA were terrorists too? And drop the "whataboutery" guff. Thats a word cowards like to use to dodge having to explain away glaring inconsistencies and hypocrisies in their opinions.
4. Are you saying the PIRA were terrorists just because they carried out some actions that were indefensible? Can you point me to an armed campaign by any group that you feel was justifiable, and which didn't involve actions within it that were indefensible?

Good man snapchap.

Just to recollect, this conversation was about whether SF get unfair treatment in the mainstream media, and it was suggested that part of this bad press is down to links that current SF members have with the Provos.

You decided to deflect with something that happened a 100 years ago. There are some similarities but many differences between the Old IRA and the Provos, none of which are relevant to this particular discussion. The fact of the matter is that the Provos terrorist campaign had always less than 5% support down south, often less than 2%.

We're not going to agree on this matter. If you do have any further questions on it, please refer to what John Hume said on it. That'll be my position, which will be different to yours.

There are differences in all armed campaigns. The fact is there are also distinct similarities between the Old IRA and PIRA campaigns. So your attempts to dodge the discussion with such meaningless nonsense as "it was 100 years ago" (besides, the Old IRA and PIRA were separated by 50 years, not 100) and your persistence with the "whataboutery" get out clause is just pathetic. If you regard the PIRA as terrorist, then explain why the Old IRA were not.

Yes, the Old IRA had its (more than)) fair share of terrorists and get quick merchants- probably on a par with PIRA. My father was tooo young to fight in the war against the tans but he gave me his reminiscencesover the years as I was growing up and from what he and other s told me, for every genuine freedom fighter, there was at least one other who was motivated by greed or intent on sorting out old grievances.
(I'm referring to East Mayo here but II believe the same held true for the rest of the country as well.)
Shopkeepers and other property owners were forced to pay levies ostensibly for the war effort but there was no way of telling where the levies went. A few prosperous farmers were pointed out to me who were, nominally anyway, in ther IRA. They wound up far richer when the war ended than when it begun.
I was told that it was commoon knowledge that some of them never fires a shot in anger and took goood care that they were never callled upon to do so.
All in all, the Old IRA was a very mixed bag.

Only in the 26 Cos between May 19 and Feb 20.
Dropoed 6 or 7 % in the North between 2017 and 2019.

At present SF and FG are running neck and neck in the polls down south.
In the Irish Times poll last February, FG were on 30% and SF were on 28%. 
There's been little between them of late.