If you missed this last night I'd highly recommend catching up with on RTE Player.
I was familiar enough with the history of it, but this programme really added to it.
Superb viewing.
https://www.rte.ie/player/movie/bloody-sunday-1920/162915880185
Johnny McDonnell who played in goal for Dublin on Bloody Sunday had the distinction of being Dublin's longest serving player until this year when his record was surpassed by Stephen Cluxton.
As recalled in the television documentary, Johnny McDonnell was part of Michael Collins's squad and took part in the action on that Sunday morning - before heading back to Croker to tog out for the Dubs. There was no Gibson Hotel lunch in those days.
I don't know what's wrong with me atm, i used to eat this stuff up,never watched it. Was there anything new in it?
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2020, 10:00:36 PM
I don't know what's wrong with me atm, i used to eat this stuff up,never watched it. Was there anything new in it?
I eat up this stuff as well. The documentary was well produced and presented, but if you know the details of the Bloody Sunday story you won't learn anything new. But as I said, I eat this stuff up so I enjoyed this presentation of the story.
I don't know if there was anything new, but it give a sense of the day though. Some things haven't changed that much in a century, the Tipp guy with the Dublin fiancée who went along to the Tipp-Dublin game, only for her to get shot by the British.
Excellent programme
I must give it a go this weekend
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called " hawkes and doves "
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.
Quote from: naka on November 18, 2020, 07:16:42 AM
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called " hawkes and doves "
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.
I've grown to really enjoy portillo. My memory of him from my younger days don't match my impression of him now. Intelligent man
Thought it was a very well presented documentary. As someone said it gave you a sense of the day and how it went down. Awful times and a horrific event to have happened in our hallowed ground.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 17, 2020, 10:52:28 PM
I must give it a go this weekend
I really enjoyed it lad. Especially when the auxies thought it was the men up from Tip who caused that mornings madness
It was the first time I heard a detailed account of what actually happened at Croke Park and the aftermath.
Hard to imagine should 6 or 10 of those murdered at Bloody Sunday in Derry were shoved into the one unmarked grave.
Typical Churchillian type imperialism, 'the natives were scum'.
Get your pitches lite up on Saturday evening from 7:20 to 8:20 pm.
Quote from: Main Street on November 18, 2020, 09:08:25 PM
It was the first time I heard a detailed account of what actually happened at Croke Park and the aftermath.
Hard to imagine should 6 or 10 of those murdered at Bloody Sunday in Derry were shoved into the one unmarked grave.
Typical Churchillian type imperialism, 'the natives were scum'.
Seriously though, do you think that generals Wilford or Ford could have given less of a fiddler's fcuk where those victims ended up, either in a limestone communal pit or each a dedicated grave?
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 19, 2020, 12:52:13 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 18, 2020, 09:08:25 PM
It was the first time I heard a detailed account of what actually happened at Croke Park and the aftermath.
Hard to imagine should 6 or 10 of those murdered at Bloody Sunday in Derry were shoved into the one unmarked grave.
Typical Churchillian type imperialism, 'the natives were scum'.
Seriously though, do you think that generals Wilford or Ford could have given less of a fiddler's fcuk where those victims ended up, either in a limestone communal pit or each a dedicated grave?
I don't give a fiddler's about the generals, I am remarking about how the murdered were treated then. Seriously though, are you really that dumb?
Have had the book sitting on a shelf for some time now but never got round to reading it, but I watched the programme, thought it was brilliant. I knew about the 12 Apostles but didnt know much about the actual attack on Croke Park, can picture the scene when they are telling the story ,would have been frightening.
The book is getting started tonight
Decent programme but I more or less knew a lot of it already.
Hadn't heard the bit about the Tans/Auxies/RIC thinking the Tipp team contained the assassins.
Nice to hear the few personal recollections.
As for the people in the mass grave I presume they were too poor to have their own plots and were buried by the Corpo?
The Abbey in conjunction with the GAA are doing a production that will be streamed on youtube etc.
Looks interesting. Better than flogging jerseys....
https://www.abbeytheatre.ie/whats-on/14-voices-from-the-bloodied-field/
Tomorrow evening at 7pm.
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 18, 2020, 11:56:54 AM
Quote from: naka on November 18, 2020, 07:16:42 AM
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called " hawkes and doves "
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.
I've grown to really enjoy portillo. My memory of him from my younger days don't match my impression of him now. Intelligent man
Recorded it as i was watching it for a bit then headed to bed, looked good!
Quote from: Main Street on November 18, 2020, 09:08:25 PM
It was the first time I heard a detailed account of what actually happened at Croke Park and the aftermath.
Hard to imagine should 6 or 10 of those murdered at Bloody Sunday in Derry were shoved into the one unmarked grave.
Typical Churchillian type imperialism, 'the natives were scum'.
I think there's a misunderstanding here.
The programme said that eight of the victims were buried in
unmarked graves. That would have been because their families could not afford a headstone. Dublin was a very deprived city at the time. The GAA has now been belatedly putting headstones on the graves of the murdered victims.
Quote from: Tyrdub on November 19, 2020, 10:26:44 AM
Have had the book sitting on a shelf for some time now but never got round to reading it, but I watched the programme, thought it was brilliant. I knew about the 12 Apostles but didnt know much about the actual attack on Croke Park, can picture the scene when they are telling the story ,would have been frightening.
The book is getting started tonight
Finished the book recently. Great read. Micheal Foley tells not only the facts about that day but the storys of the teams and the individual victims. Micheal is one of the contributors in the programme.
Quote from: Main Street on November 19, 2020, 09:59:45 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on November 19, 2020, 12:52:13 AM
Quote from: Main Street on November 18, 2020, 09:08:25 PM
It was the first time I heard a detailed account of what actually happened at Croke Park and the aftermath.
Hard to imagine should 6 or 10 of those murdered at Bloody Sunday in Derry were shoved into the one unmarked grave.
Typical Churchillian type imperialism, 'the natives were scum'.
Seriously though, do you think that generals Wilford or Ford could have given less of a fiddler's fcuk where those victims ended up, either in a limestone communal pit or each a dedicated grave?
I don't give a fiddler's about the generals, I am remarking about how the murdered were treated then. Seriously though, are you really that dumb?
Generally not half as dumb as yourself, but to suppose that Imperial overlords from one generation to the next differ to any significant degree beggars belief, where Ireland, north or south, is specifically concerned.
Quote from: naka on November 18, 2020, 07:16:42 AM
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called " hawkes and doves "
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.
Interesting that they discussed the possibility of a 4 county NI which excluded Tyrone and Fermanagh, but they felt a statelet that small was economically unsustainable (Not that it's economically booming these days).
Would they consider reducing NI even further to hold a Protestant majority if needed? After all, as far as I'm aware, only Down and Antrim have unionist majorities.
Watched it this morning. Really good. Have the book so will be starting that this evening
Kevin Myers on the Hard Shoulde - Newstalk there at 4:30pm.
He has huge disdain for everything done by the Republican movement.
Still Interesting to hear his biased research about the day.
Bloody Sunday Dublin GAA Remembers
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8i_8xiiCf2I
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=57sfrlAQyKM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on November 20, 2020, 06:47:18 PM
Bloody Sunday Dublin GAA Remembers
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8i_8xiiCf2I
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=57sfrlAQyKM
Enjoyed both of those. Go raibh maith agat.
Quote from: BennyCake on November 20, 2020, 01:52:44 PM
Quote from: naka on November 18, 2020, 07:16:42 AM
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called " hawkes and doves "
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.
Interesting that they discussed the possibility of a 4 county NI which excluded Tyrone and Fermanagh, but they felt a statelet that small was economically unsustainable (Not that it's economically booming these days).
Would they consider reducing NI even further to hold a Protestant majority if needed? After all, as far as I'm aware, only Down and Antrim have unionist majorities.
Only north down from Comber out to the Ards peninsula would be a unionist majority in down, quite substantially granted.
Carryduff, Saintfield etc would have unionist strongholds at one time but not now. The majority of the rest of the county would be strongly nationalist.
In Antrim, Belfast has a nationalist majority now, although the rest of Antrim definitely unionist.
Quote from: restorepride on November 20, 2020, 11:28:38 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on November 20, 2020, 06:47:18 PM
Bloody Sunday Dublin GAA Remembers
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8i_8xiiCf2I
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=57sfrlAQyKM
Enjoyed both of those. Go raibh maith agat.
You're welcome ;)
BBC propaganda are up their tricks again with an article Bloody Sunday 1920: Croke Park killings remembered 100 years on
It almost reads like a chapter from the whitewash and this a 100 year old event.
'Earlier that Sunday morning, the IRA killed 14 people and wounded others in a series of co-ordinated attacks across Dublin, with the aim of assassinating British intelligence agents or spies.
The British authorities suspected some of the gunmen had disappeared into the crowd at Croke Park, so armed police were deployed to block all the exits and search thousands of spectators.
But, within minutes, panic ensued as police began shooting indiscriminately into the crowd.'
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54908852 (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-54908852)
How about
Earlier that Sunday morning, the IRA killed 13 military personnel (7 British Army Intelligence Officers, 3 BA officers, 1 RIC sergeant, 2 Auxies.1 civilian).
Quote from: BennyCake on November 20, 2020, 01:52:44 PM
Quote from: naka on November 18, 2020, 07:16:42 AM
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called " hawkes and doves "
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.
Interesting that they discussed the possibility of a 4 county NI which excluded Tyrone and Fermanagh, but they felt a statelet that small was economically unsustainable (Not that it's economically booming these days).
Would they consider reducing NI even further to hold a Protestant majority if needed? After all, as far as I'm aware, only Down and Antrim have unionist majorities.
One of their biggest mistakes was leaving west bank of Derry city (which is Inishowen effectively) in the North. Caused them untold trouble. They done it because of historical significance of walls and seige
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 21, 2020, 08:09:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 20, 2020, 01:52:44 PM
Quote from: naka on November 18, 2020, 07:16:42 AM
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called " hawkes and doves "
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.
Interesting that they discussed the possibility of a 4 county NI which excluded Tyrone and Fermanagh, but they felt a statelet that small was economically unsustainable (Not that it's economically booming these days).
Would they consider reducing NI even further to hold a Protestant majority if needed? After all, as far as I'm aware, only Down and Antrim have unionist majorities.
One of their biggest mistakes was leaving west bank of Derry city (which is Inishowen effectively) in the North. Caused them untold trouble. They done it because of historical significance of walls and seige
I see this map today in Slugger for Freestate proposals for the border, this would have rid the 6 counties of Derry and south Armagh and would have saved a lot of trouble.
(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/915d989add2ff8c5241e0b29d128cb32e8447c14d965cff8449289c3263366e2.jpg?w=800&h=483)
Monaghan would have become the super power in Ulster GAA after liberating and taken into protection all the Cs, the bandit towns of Crossmaglen, Cregan, Culloville and Cullyhanna.
Quote from: Main Street on November 23, 2020, 08:25:12 PM
Monaghan would have become the super power in Ulster GAA after liberating and taken into protection all the Cs, the bandit towns of Crossmaglen, Cregan, Culloville and Cullyhanna.
Well their postal address was Monaghan before the sectarian Post Office administration made us Down.
And you might welcome Camlough as well.
I think Camlough was outside of Monaghan's reach, possibly it would have sunk into the mire of Louth.
If Armagh was split with the border, surely the whole county would still be just 'Armagh'? Or would it become Northern Armagh and The Armagh Free State?
Quote from: BennyCake on November 23, 2020, 09:53:29 PM
If Armagh was split with the border, surely the whole county would still be just 'Armagh'? Or would it become Northern Armagh and The Armagh Free State?
One Armagh is enough.
In the last few days I learned of an interesting connection between the Maamtrasna murders and the Bloody Sunday massacre.
In 1882 in Maamtrasna on the Galway and Mayo border five members of the Joyce family were murdered in their beds. One of the young sons, Martin, survived because he was out of the house on the night of the murders. Some years later Martin was married and settled in Dublin where he had a large family. Two of his sons Joe and Christy played football with Parnells (Stephen Cluxton's club). On Bloody Sunday both Joe and Christy were on the Dublin team which was caught up in the massacre.
And of course the great Johnny Joyce who scored six goals for the Dubs in a Leinster championship game against Longford in 1960 was a grandson of Martin Joyce.
Quote from: Main Street on November 23, 2020, 10:15:15 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 23, 2020, 09:53:29 PM
If Armagh was split with the border, surely the whole county would still be just 'Armagh'? Or would it become Northern Armagh and The Armagh Free State?
One Armagh is enough.
FRSA....Free Republic of South Armagh with Cross as the capital. Would would stand alone and make our money as a sovereign smuggling state akin to Andorra!
Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2020, 03:13:34 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 21, 2020, 08:09:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 20, 2020, 01:52:44 PM
Quote from: naka on November 18, 2020, 07:16:42 AM
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called " hawkes and doves "
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.
Interesting that they discussed the possibility of a 4 county NI which excluded Tyrone and Fermanagh, but they felt a statelet that small was economically unsustainable (Not that it's economically booming these days).
Would they consider reducing NI even further to hold a Protestant majority if needed? After all, as far as I'm aware, only Down and Antrim have unionist majorities.
One of their biggest mistakes was leaving west bank of Derry city (which is Inishowen effectively) in the North. Caused them untold trouble. They done it because of historical significance of walls and seige
I see this map today in Slugger for Freestate proposals for the border, this would have rid the 6 counties of Derry and south Armagh and would have saved a lot of trouble.
(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/915d989add2ff8c5241e0b29d128cb32e8447c14d965cff8449289c3263366e2.jpg?w=800&h=483)
I'm assuming they took Derry so they could use the city's docks for access to the North Atlantic.
But why did they go with Tyrone then? Was it because they knew there was gold in them thar hills? And Fermanagh, sure what could they possibly want with it?
If the Brits left out Tyrone, surely it would have been easier for them to manage the border along the Blackwater and Lough Neagh?
Quote from: BennyCake on November 24, 2020, 03:45:54 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on November 23, 2020, 03:13:34 PM
Quote from: Fear Bun Na Sceilpe on November 21, 2020, 08:09:38 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on November 20, 2020, 01:52:44 PM
Quote from: naka on November 18, 2020, 07:16:42 AM
Continuing on this note there is an excellent programme on bbc iplayer called " hawkes and doves "
By Michael portillo on the British government response to the war of independence.
Reality is that the 6 county North was predetermined before the negotiations started.
Portillo quite good at these type of shows.
Interesting that they discussed the possibility of a 4 county NI which excluded Tyrone and Fermanagh, but they felt a statelet that small was economically unsustainable (Not that it's economically booming these days).
Would they consider reducing NI even further to hold a Protestant majority if needed? After all, as far as I'm aware, only Down and Antrim have unionist majorities.
One of their biggest mistakes was leaving west bank of Derry city (which is Inishowen effectively) in the North. Caused them untold trouble. They done it because of historical significance of walls and seige
I see this map today in Slugger for Freestate proposals for the border, this would have rid the 6 counties of Derry and south Armagh and would have saved a lot of trouble.
(https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/915d989add2ff8c5241e0b29d128cb32e8447c14d965cff8449289c3263366e2.jpg?w=800&h=483)
I'm assuming they took Derry so they could use the city's docks for access to the North Atlantic.
But why did they go with Tyrone then? Was it because they knew there was gold in them thar hills? And Fermanagh, sure what could they possibly want with it?
If the Brits left out Tyrone, surely it would have been easier for them to manage the border along the Blackwater and Lough Neagh?
Nobody wanted Tyrone, so I suppose it just stayed there.
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on November 24, 2020, 12:18:14 PM
In the last few days I learned of an interesting connection between the Maamtrasna murders and the Bloody Sunday massacre.
In 1882 in Maamtrasna on the Galway and Mayo border five members of the Joyce family were murdered in their beds. One of the young sons, Martin, survived because he was out of the house on the night of the murders. Some years later Martin was married and settled in Dublin where he had a large family. Two of his sons Joe and Christy played football with Parnells (Stephen Cluxton's club). On Bloody Sunday both Joe and Christy were on the Dublin team which was caught up in the massacre.
And of course the great Johnny Joyce who scored six goals for the Dubs in a Leinster championship game against Longford in 1960 was a grandson of Martin Joyce.
Wow, I thought I knew that Maamtrasna story well but never heard of that Bloody Sunday & Gaa link previously - thanks for posting that info.
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on November 24, 2020, 09:52:28 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on November 24, 2020, 12:18:14 PM
In the last few days I learned of an interesting connection between the Maamtrasna murders and the Bloody Sunday massacre.
In 1882 in Maamtrasna on the Galway and Mayo border five members of the Joyce family were murdered in their beds. One of the young sons, Martin, survived because he was out of the house on the night of the murders. Some years later Martin was married and settled in Dublin where he had a large family. Two of his sons Joe and Christy played football with Parnells (Stephen Cluxton's club). On Bloody Sunday both Joe and Christy were on the Dublin team which was caught up in the massacre.
And of course the great Johnny Joyce who scored six goals for the Dubs in a Leinster championship game against Longford in 1960 was a grandson of Martin Joyce.
Wow, I thought I knew that Maamtrasna story well but never heard of that Bloody Sunday & Gaa link previously - thanks for posting that info.
Yes it's a fascinating connection.
I knew that Johnny Joyce was a grandson of Martin Joyce who survived the Maamtrasna massacre, but I didn't know that two of Martin's sons were on the field on Bloody Sunday. At the moment, by coincidence, I'm reading
The Maamtrasna Murders by Margaret Kelleher and she mentions the Bloody Sunday connection in her book.
I live close to Kilbarrack Cemetery in Fingal where Martin Joyce is buried (a long way from Maamtrasna).
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on November 25, 2020, 03:28:29 PM
Quote from: GaillimhIarthair on November 24, 2020, 09:52:28 PM
Quote from: The Hill is Blue on November 24, 2020, 12:18:14 PM
In the last few days I learned of an interesting connection between the Maamtrasna murders and the Bloody Sunday massacre.
In 1882 in Maamtrasna on the Galway and Mayo border five members of the Joyce family were murdered in their beds. One of the young sons, Martin, survived because he was out of the house on the night of the murders. Some years later Martin was married and settled in Dublin where he had a large family. Two of his sons Joe and Christy played football with Parnells (Stephen Cluxton's club). On Bloody Sunday both Joe and Christy were on the Dublin team which was caught up in the massacre.
And of course the great Johnny Joyce who scored six goals for the Dubs in a Leinster championship game against Longford in 1960 was a grandson of Martin Joyce.
Wow, I thought I knew that Maamtrasna story well but never heard of that Bloody Sunday & Gaa link previously - thanks for posting that info.
Yes it's a fascinating connection.
I knew that Johnny Joyce was a grandson of Martin Joyce who survived the Maamtrasna massacre, but I didn't know that two of Martin's sons were on the field on Bloody Sunday. At the moment, by coincidence, I'm reading The Maamtrasna Murders by Margaret Kelleher and she mentions the Bloody Sunday connection in her book.
I live close to Kilbarrack Cemetery in Fingal where Martin Joyce is buried (a long way from Maamtrasna).
Well, I'm a long way from Kilbarrack Cemetery but grew up not too far from Maamtrasna!!
A tragic story with an amazing connection to Bloody Sunday all the same.