The Provincial Championships

[blewuporstuffed]

based on this years performances the 16 would be made up from 

 

mayo, 

dublin,

kerry,

monaghan,

tyrone,

kildare,

cork,

donegal,

down,

derry,

w.meath,

laois,

louth, 

galway,

armagh,

wexford,

 

 

 

cavan would miss out, as would the likes of meath

but then if counties new from the beginning that qualification was based on league performance, then perhaps we would have a more competitive league.

 

you can argue that most counties won't be arsed about a second tier competition, but the aim is also to give more meaning to the league & provincial competitions, so that each county has more meaningful games in a year. 

realistically any team outside the top 16 won't win an allireland anyway (or even get to semi/qtr final anyway

[deiseach]

A tighter more compact Provincial season would allow for more scope for changes to qualifiers/B competition and also create a more structured fixtures plan for club fixtures. I also feel their would be more buzz with games played on same weekends and with the new white elephant stadium in casement, double fixtures will also be possible.

The biggest problem facing the GAA (IMHO etc) is emigration/rural depopulation. The second biggest problem is giving club players regular matches. The second problem is going to exist as long as County Boards are happy to re-schedule games for bullsh!t reasons. A number of football games have been postponed in Waterford this weekend because the Minor hurlers are playing Antrim. To my mind this is lunacy, but those in positions of authority in various counties (despite all the slandering of the likes of Frank/Phelim Murphy, no-one can seriously argue these guys don't care) seem to think it's the way to go. And no amount of rejigging of the Championship format is going to change that attitude.

[orangeman]

The league needs revamped.


When it means nothing whether or not you're relegated, then surely the leagues all need looked at in order to make them competitive in some way.


Making the leagues a seeding system is as good a way as any.

[Captain Obvious]

based on this years performances the 16 would be made up from



mayo,

dublin,

kerry,

monaghan,

tyrone,

kildare,

cork,

donegal,

down,

derry,

w.meath,

laois,

louth,

galway,

armagh,

wexford,







cavan would miss out, as would the likes of meath

but then if counties new from the beginning that qualification was based on league performance, then perhaps we would have a more competitive league.



you can argue that most counties won't be arsed about a second tier competition, but the aim is also to give more meaning to the league & provincial competitions, so that each county has more meaningful games in a year.

realistically any team outside the top 16 won't win an allireland anyway (or even get to semi/qtr final anyway

Don't see how its right for Cavan,Meath to miss out while Wexford,Louth are allowed to play in the top 16. Isn't much difference between division two,three sides and this years championship proved that.

Cavan will reach the quarter final and Meath are one win away. Realistically only five sides could win the All Ireland this summer maybe we should have mini All Ireland just for those sides?

[Bingo]

A tighter more compact Provincial season would allow for more scope for changes to qualifiers/B competition and also create a more structured fixtures plan for club fixtures. I also feel their would be more buzz with games played on same weekends and with the new white elephant stadium in casement, double fixtures will also be possible.

The biggest problem facing the GAA (IMHO etc) is emigration/rural depopulation. The second biggest problem is giving club players regular matches. The second problem is going to exist as long as County Boards are happy to re-schedule games for bullsh!t reasons. A number of football games have been postponed in Waterford this weekend because the Minor hurlers are playing Antrim. To my mind this is lunacy, but those in positions of authority in various counties (despite all the slandering of the likes of Frank/Phelim Murphy, no-one can seriously argue these guys don't care) seem to think it's the way to go. And no amount of rejigging of the Championship format is going to change that attitude.

Not sure of other counties but in Monaghan, I've been surprised how this works and you'd normally find that the clubs involved have a lot of influence in this matter. While Johnny the Minor will be the excuse used, you'll find out that Johnnys club have an injury or two, a player on holidays maybe and they looking to take advantage of Johnny minor and they don't want to play games without their full panel.

Their is no easy answer but from the outset all clubs/boards and county mgt panel should agree what Intercounty games necessitate a postponement and what doesn't. Put them in a room and you'll find very little common ground on it but your only chance is to do it before a ball is licked/pucked.

[blewuporstuffed]

based on this years performances the 16 would be made up from



mayo,

dublin,

kerry,

monaghan,

tyrone,

kildare,

cork,

donegal,

down,

derry,

w.meath,

laois,

louth,

galway,

armagh,

wexford,







cavan would miss out, as would the likes of meath

but then if counties new from the beginning that qualification was based on league performance, then perhaps we would have a more competitive league.



you can argue that most counties won't be arsed about a second tier competition, but the aim is also to give more meaning to the league & provincial competitions, so that each county has more meaningful games in a year.

realistically any team outside the top 16 won't win an allireland anyway (or even get to semi/qtr final anyway

Don't see how its right for Cavan,Meath to miss out while Wexford,Louth are allowed to play in the top 16. Isn't much difference between division two,three sides and this years championship proved that.

Cavan will reach the quarter final and Meath are one win away. Realistically only five sides could win the All Ireland this summer maybe we should have mini All Ireland just for those sides?

It certainly wouldn't be perfect from the start, but if counties knew from the start that league position effected getting into the senior competition, then they would take it more seriously and would only have themselves to blame for missing out.
This would leave the league far more competitive and give the lesser counties an achievable goal of getting into the top 16 competition as a tangible measure of progress.

[deiseach]

Not sure of other counties but in Monaghan, I've been surprised how this works and you'd normally find that the clubs involved have a lot of influence in this matter. While Johnny the Minor will be the excuse used, you'll find out that Johnnys club have an injury or two, a player on holidays maybe and they looking to take advantage of Johnny minor and they don't want to play games without their full panel.

Oh, you can be certain it's the clubs pushing for the postponements. It's in their interests if their energy and enthusiasm-laden corner-forward is playing for an underage county team for the game to be re-scheduled. But they need someone strong enough to tell them where to go. As I understand it, it's just not done in Kilkenny. This isn't the reason they are successful, but it does suggest that playing matches at the same time the county team are playing doesn't hinder the county team. And re-scheduling club games definitely harms the club game in the long run when other sports can guarantee players regular games in high summer.

Their is no easy answer but from the outset all clubs/boards and county mgt panel should agree what Intercounty games necessitate a postponement and what doesn't. Put them in a room and you'll find very little common ground on it but your only chance is to do it before a ball is licked/pucked.

Sounds good to me.

[armaghniac]

It isn't really symmetrical with 16 good teams and 16 bad teams. There are 4 or 5 teams who would usually beat everyone, except themselves. Then there are 16-20 teams who just might beat one of the above, who would have nearly 50/50 games with each other, but who might hockey one of the lower teams. Then there are 8 or so teams who are dispirited and who couldn't be relied up to beat the top 5 club teams never mind the top 5 county teams.

[Jinxy]

The league needs revamped.


When it means nothing whether or not you're relegated, then surely the leagues all need looked at in order to make them competitive in some way.


Making the leagues a seeding system is as good a way as any.

Balderdash.
Going from division 1 to 2, or 3 to 4 mightn't mean much in the greater scheme of things, but going from 2 to 3 does.

[blewuporstuffed]

It isn't really symmetrical with 16 good teams and 16 bad teams. There are 4 or 5 teams who would usually beat everyone, except themselves. Then there are 16-20 teams who just might beat one of the above, who would have nearly 50/50 games with each other, but who might hockey one of the lower teams. Then there are 8 or so teams who are dispirited and who couldn't be relied up to beat the top 5 club teams never mind the top 5 county teams.

it may not be symmetrical, but it would leave it very competitive between that mid group of teams in the league to try and qualify for the top level competition.

Having a  think a bit more about it, a revamp of the league to 3 divisions might work better as it would give more counties the chance to finish in the top 16 by thier league position.
only div 3 teams couldnt qualify by league position (but could still if they win their province)

[armaghniac]

3 divisions has merit, just abolish these league semi finals and the like.

[Sidney]

And re-scheduling club games definitely harms the club game in the long run when other sports can guarantee players regular games in high summer.

Apart from the League of Ireland, which sports can guarantee games in high summer? Junior soccer and all rugby are not played in high summer. Cricket?

[deiseach]

Apart from the League of Ireland, which sports can guarantee games in high summer? Junior soccer and all rugby are not played in high summer. Cricket?

I was being a bit overwrought with 'high' part, but the Waterford Junior Leagues are played from August through to May with a break for the winter. You know well in advance when the game is going to be played and can plan your life accordingly. Have a look at the previous year's fixtures to see how regular the fixtures are. I think it should be a source of worry to Waterford GAA that they can offer this reliability in a way that the GAA don't seem to be able to, often for the silliest of reasons. 

[armaghniac]

I think it should be a source of worry to Waterford GAA that they can offer this reliability in a way that the GAA don't seem to be able to, often for the silliest of reasons.

I imagine Waterford football fixtures aren't any more predictable than Kerry, altough Waterford pay few games in the championship. The reasons for the chaos lies elsewhere.