How the mighty have fallen but not unexpected! How long before something similar happens to one of the current big clubs in England? It happens in the league of Ireland all the time it seems.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17015966 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17015966)
Incredible. How the hell did this come to pass? Seriously, any Scottish soccer watchers (of which there are many here) care to explain what went wrong for Rangers? Please take 'bad karma' as given.
The fact that the SPL is pure and utter sh1t might be a factor?
I think they are liable for a big unpaid Tax bill. Were paying player's wages into off-shore accounts. Where 'Arry?
Quote from: EC Unique on February 13, 2012, 04:00:37 PM
The fact that the SPL is pure and utter sh1t might be a factor?
How has the standard of the football got anything to do with Rangers not paying their tax and being up to their eyes in debt?
it was the immortal words of murray
" ffor every £5 celtic spend we will spend £10"
this is truely a great day when dignity fc go under ;D
Living beyond their means for many years under former owner David Murray. They chased the Champions League dream like Leeds Utd before them and now the chickens have come home to roost.
What happens when an administrator is appointed? They will try to keep the club going by cutting deals with creditors and cutting costs.
If they can't balance the books or find a new owner who can, is there a serious chance they could go bust and drop out of the league. That's what happened Airdrieonians and Gretna in recent times.
Craig Whyte is a convicted crook, there was a Scottish Spotlight special on him a few months back outlining what dodgy deals he was up to (past & present), if I remember correctly bringing a business into Administration or Bankrupting them was an oul favourite of his. He generally walked away up a few pound.
Sky Sports News are going down the hyperbole route (naturally enough) but unless I'm badly mistaken there's been a lot of English football clubs who've done this and came out the other side without the debt??
How would it benefit Celtic if they went belly up? They wouldn't be queuing up for tv rights anyway and they won't be in the Premier League.
Quote from: Minder on February 13, 2012, 04:47:07 PM
How would it benefit Celtic if they went belly up? They wouldn't be queuing up for tv rights anyway and they won't be in the Premier League.
(http://www.ocularfusion.net/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/grave-dancing.PNG)
Statement just issued by Rangers. Sounds bad for them.
Rangers Statement
Mon, Feb 13, 2012
The Rangers Football Club plc has today announced it has filed a notice of intention to the Court of Session in Edinburgh to appoint administrators.
The Club will conduct its business as usual and will not be in administration until it decides whether to formally proceed with an application to appoint administrators.
Until such time, the Club will not face any sanction from the football authorities in terms of points deduction within the Scottish Premier League.
Sanctions such as a 10-point deduction will only apply if the Club proceeds with the appointment of administrators. It is expected to be 10 working days before a decision is made whether to appoint administrators.
Suppliers to Rangers Football Club and the Club's business partners and sponsors are currently being informed of today's announcement and arrangements between the Club, suppliers and creditors will continue as normal.
There will be no impact on season ticket holders and shareholders. Season tickets will continue to be valid for this season and any commitment to a season ticket for next season is secure.
The Club is continuing to have dialogue with HMRC in the hope that a formal insolvency procedure can be averted and has put forward pragmatic proposals.
The Club's owners believe there is no 'realistic or practical' alternative to this course of action in order to secure the long-term future of the Club.
Should administration take effect, the Club is proposing a Company Voluntary Arrangement (CVA). The Club wishes to seek the protection of a moratorium from HMRC action whilst a CVA proposal is made to creditors. The Club has put forward a CVA proposal to HMRC in which creditors would be paid and provision made for the legacy HMRC case, commonly known as the 'big tax' case.
This, if approved by creditors within a month, would minimise any points deduction and enable the club to participate in European football next season.
The Club has engaged Duff and Phelps, a specialist restructuring practice to assist in finding a solution to the present position.
Should the Club proceed into administration, the appointed administrators will in all likelihood implement a cost-cutting programme and staffing levels will be reviewed across all departments of the Club's business.
Rangers chairman Craig Whyte said there is no 'realistic or practical' alternative to this course of action due to a combination of the Club's ongoing financial situation and the impending result of the HMRC first tier tax tribunal. The tribunal relates to a claim by HMRC for unpaid taxes over a period of several years dating back to 2001, which, if decided in favour of HMRC, could result in liabilities and penalties substantially more than the £50 million reported which the Club would be unable to pay.
Further investment in the Club from any source would be impossible as the threat of winding up by HMRC cannot be removed. The Rangers FC Group, the majority shareholder in the Club, is prepared to provide further funding for the Club on the basis the funding is ring-fenced from the legacy HMRC issue.
Mr Whyte said: "It is extremely disappointing the Club's finds itself in this position but decisions have to be taken to safeguard the long-term survival and prosperity of the Club both on and off the field. The harsh reality is that this moment has been a long time coming for Rangers and its roots lie in decisions taken many years ago. If we do not take action now the consequences and the risks to the Club are too great.
"In addition to the HMRC issues, it has been abundantly clear to me the Club faces serious structural and financial issues which will continue unless they are addressed.
"There is no realistic or practical alternative to our approach as HMRC has made it plain to the Club that should we be successful in the forthcoming tax tribunal decision, they will 'appeal, appeal and appeal again' the decision. This would leave the Club facing years of uncertainty and also having to pay immediately a range of liabilities to HMRC. Even if the Club were to succeed in the tax tribunal, it would still face substantial liabilities. Zero liability will not happen.
"Whilst it appears that a consensual restructuring looks unlikely outside of a formal insolvency procedure, the above steps, if agreement cannot be reached with HMRC, will bring an end to the legacy threat of closure and will provide stability required to enable the required investment to be made into the future of the Club.
"I can, however, reassure Rangers supporters that the Club will continue and can emerge as a stronger and financially fitter organisation that will compete at the levels of competition our fans have come to expect.
"At this point I would ask all Rangers supporters to continue to show the tremendous support they have shown to the Club, Ally McCoist, his management team and the players."
Quote from: bennydorano on February 13, 2012, 04:39:41 PM
Sky Sports News are going down the hyperbole route (naturally enough) but unless I'm badly mistaken there's been a lot of English football clubs who've done this and came out the other side without the debt??
Leeds United being one.
I blame Tore Andre Flo.
Quote from: bennydorano on February 13, 2012, 04:39:41 PM
Craig Whyte is a convicted crook, there was a Scottish Spotlight special on him a few months back outlining what dodgy deals he was up to (past & present), if I remember correctly bringing a business into Administration or Bankrupting them was an oul favourite of his. He generally walked away up a few pound.
Sky Sports News are going down the hyperbole route (naturally enough) but unless I'm badly mistaken there's been a lot of English football clubs who've done this and came out the other side without the debt??
The biggest problem is not the current bank debt as such, it's the fraud case, which most if not all informed opinion think will go against Rangers.
It's a double whammy.
;D
Quote from: deiseach on February 13, 2012, 03:56:58 PM
Incredible. How the hell did this come to pass? Seriously, any Scottish soccer watchers (of which there are many here) care to explain what went wrong for Rangers? Please take 'bad karma' as given.
More money out than in.
Gambled on big European payouts that never occurred. F*ck 'em.
The SFA and SPL will still make the period as easy as possible for them. Don't expect to see a Dundee or Gretna solution. Scottish football has one law for rich Glasgow clubs, and another for the rest.
Quote from: deiseach on February 13, 2012, 03:56:58 PM
Incredible. How the hell did this come to pass?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsNTmjlf1vI
Quote from: EC Unique on February 13, 2012, 04:00:37 PM
The fact that the SPL is pure and utter sh1t might be a factor?
What has the standard of football got to do with it?
Quote from: Jonah on February 13, 2012, 08:58:06 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on February 13, 2012, 04:00:37 PM
The fact that the SPL is pure and utter sh1t might be a factor?
What has the standard of football got to do with it?
Means TV companies bid less to show the games.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 13, 2012, 08:59:23 PM
Quote from: Jonah on February 13, 2012, 08:58:06 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on February 13, 2012, 04:00:37 PM
The fact that the SPL is pure and utter sh1t might be a factor?
What has the standard of football got to do with it?
Means TV companies bid less to show the games.
How come Celtic aren't in the crapper so?
Rangers have had revenue from Champions League football as well as a big enough revenue from ticket sales and merchandise so the problem lies with bad management rather than it being a shite football league IMO.
Quote from: deiseach on February 13, 2012, 03:56:58 PM
Incredible. How the hell did this come to pass? Seriously, any Scottish soccer watchers (of which there are many here) care to explain what went wrong for Rangers? Please take 'bad karma' as given.
I blame the masons.
Quote from: Rois on February 13, 2012, 06:08:46 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on February 13, 2012, 04:39:41 PM
Sky Sports News are going down the hyperbole route (naturally enough) but unless I'm badly mistaken there's been a lot of English football clubs who've done this and came out the other side without the debt??
Leeds United being one.
Yes, and if Rangers find their level in the second tier of Scottish fitba after a spell in the third, few right thinking people will shed any tears.
Quote from: Jonah on February 13, 2012, 09:02:31 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 13, 2012, 08:59:23 PM
Quote from: Jonah on February 13, 2012, 08:58:06 PM
Quote from: EC Unique on February 13, 2012, 04:00:37 PM
The fact that the SPL is pure and utter sh1t might be a factor?
What has the standard of football got to do with it?
Means TV companies bid less to show the games.
How come Celtic aren't in the crapper so?
Rangers have had revenue from Champions League football as well as a big enough revenue from ticket sales and merchandise so the problem lies with bad management rather than it being a shite football league IMO.
Spot on.
Rangers were trying to do what English and Spanish clubs were doing, but without the TV money backing. The Tims have been a lot more sensible.
Aberdeen have tried to be sensible, and had a good European run off the back of it. And then made a mangerial appointment that was probably quite amusing for everybody else. >:(
Scottish football won't survive without a strong Rangers . . . Celtic will have to join England and will be a Championship team and the whole thing will fall to pieces. Not that I'm disappointed. The whole Celtic/Rangers thing doesn't matter and was just a breeding ground for hatred. If the OF is disbanded it might not be good for Scottish football but it would be better for life in Scotland generally!
An annual two horse race. Without each other who's there left to hate and cheer about beating?
Even with a ten-point penalty, they'll still be nine points ahead of Motherwell in 3rd.
I'm a supporter of the new Gretna, i.e., Gretna FC 2008. Rangers should go the same way as the old Gretna but they won't because they are Rangers. :( The S.P.L. needs the TV money they bring.
If Rangers did have to reform as a new club and start at Div 3 the Scottish game would be in big bother.
The Irish League never recovered when Belfast Celtic left it.
Quote from: Lecale2 on February 14, 2012, 08:00:09 AM
If Rangers did have to reform as a new club and start at Div 3 the Scottish game would be in big bother.
The Irish League never recovered when Belfast Celtic left it.
Serious question. Why do so many people care?
Celic and Rangers going out of business would be no loss to the world.
Well it should be no loss to people who live this side of the shugh. Why people invest so much time and interest in following such things is a bit of a mystery to me. Personal belief is it's very much to do with being seen to run with the pack. The pack who primarily (exceptions will exist) don't want to play an active role within their own communities and like all day sessions in bars.
Yes, as i've stated before I Support Celtic cos i'm a sectarian fuckwit, anyone who says they've any other reason for doing so is a liar.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 14, 2012, 09:08:00 AM
Well it should be no loss to people who live this side of the shugh. Why people invest so much time and interest in following such things is a bit of a mystery to me. Personal belief is it's very much to do with being seen to run with the pack. The pack who primarily (exceptions will exist) don't want to play an active role within their own communities and like all day sessions in bars.
So it's not a mystery to you at all
I'm one of those people who is prepared to doubt the validity of my own opinions but simply offer them in the hope that someone will enlighten me.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 14, 2012, 11:46:36 AM
I'm one of those people who is prepared to doubt the validity of my own opinions but simply offer them in the hope that someone will enlighten me.
I'd say you understand full well why people care about Celtic and Rangers but haven't the courage to say what you really think of them.
wtf do you mean deiseach? I have already provided my opinion/understanding and within that opinion it should be fairly easy to work out what I think of them.
Hoping that you'll find the courage to provide your perspective.
cant wait for gers supporters to say that hmrc are full of papists and taigs.
If Celtic join the Championship in England, the SPL can flourish and become semi-interesting.
Afaiu from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17018226 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17018226)
Craig Whyte bought Rangers for £1 and took on the repayment of the £18m bank debt.
He became a creditor, because by taking on the £18m debt, Rangers owed him £18m.
He then made some deal to have that £18m debt paid based on the future sales of season tickets.
Yet Whyte the chairman is still an £18m creditor, a stonewalled secured creditor, having even priority above unpaid taxes.
He now can take full ownership of Rangers fc and assets, in lieu of that £18m debt, a debt he bought for £1.
Quote from: Main Street on February 14, 2012, 12:54:02 PM
Afaiu from http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17018226 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-17018226)
Craig Whyte bought Rangers for £1 and took on the repayment of the £18m bank debt.
He became a creditor, because by taking on the £18m debt, Rangers owed him £18m.
He then made some deal to have that £18m debt paid based on the future sales of season tickets.
Yet Whyte the chairman is still an £18m creditor, a stonewalled secured creditor, having even priority above unpaid taxes.
He now can take full ownership of Rangers fc and assets, in lieu of that £18m debt, a debt he bought for £1.
Edit Now would be a good time to merge this into the Rangers FCKd thread because I reckon HMRC will liquidate rather than stand behind this shyster in the queue.
One of the reasons this has happened, I presume
Quote(Reuters) - Tax authorities took Scottish champions Rangers to court on Tuesday to try to put the club straight into administration rather than giving them breathing space to deal with their financial crisis.
The Glasgow club gave formal notification to the same court on Monday that they were likely to go into administration within 10 days in a move that sent shockwaves through British football.
The response by the tax body is effectively an attempt to take control of the process, rather than allow the club to call the shots.
Quote from: theskull1 on February 14, 2012, 09:08:00 AM
Well it should be no loss to people who live this side of the shugh. Why people invest so much time and interest in following such things is a bit of a mystery to me. Personal belief is it's very much to do with being seen to run with the pack. The pack who primarily (exceptions will exist) don't want to play an active role within their own communities and like all day sessions in bars.
Aye, I've never really got it eaither.
Nor why so many of my countrymen want to appropriate the flags and emblems of a conflict from another country.
The only time I want to see the Red Hand banner flown at a Scottish sporting event is when our national football team play NI or Ulster Rugby come to visit in the Magners League.
The only time I want to see a Tricolour is during internation football interationals, rugby internationals and hybrid games with scoring systems that no-one quite understands (which is why I first came on this site, if any of you were wondering).
This is now going off thread, but I quite like seeing the Irish tricolour flown at other sporting events ranging from F1, Olympics, all GAA and other Irish sports events. Also to see it over government buildings, at the airport when I get home and lots lots more.
Really couldn't disagree more with your times for flying our national flag
The only time I want to see a Tricolour is during internation football interationals, rugby internationals and hybrid games with scoring systems that no-one quite understands
Quote from: ardal on February 14, 2012, 01:32:55 PM
This is now going off thread, but I quite like seeing the Irish tricolour flown at other sporting events ranging from F1, Olympics, all GAA and other Irish sports events. Also to see it over government buildings, at the airport when I get home and lots lots more.
Really couldn't disagree more with your times for flying our national flag
The only time I want to see a Tricolour is during internation football interationals, rugby internationals and hybrid games with scoring systems that no-one quite understands
Clarification: I'm Scottish, not Irish. I'm perfectly for the Irish do what they want with their flag within their own country. In fact, it'd be seriously disrespectful to even suggest it's my place to comment.
I was referring to the Irish flag being flown at sporting events within Scotland. Perhaps my comment should read: I'd prefer if the Red Hand or Tricolour were only used at sporting events in Scotland when someone present was representing the relevent nation.
Apologies for not being clear earlier.
I think several things threw me;
Mangers league?
Scotland?
emblems of a conflict from another country?
Sorry for my stupidity
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 01:49:08 PM
Quote from: ardal on February 14, 2012, 01:32:55 PM
This is now going off thread, but I quite like seeing the Irish tricolour flown at other sporting events ranging from F1, Olympics, all GAA and other Irish sports events. Also to see it over government buildings, at the airport when I get home and lots lots more.
Really couldn't disagree more with your times for flying our national flag
The only time I want to see a Tricolour is during internation football interationals, rugby internationals and hybrid games with scoring systems that no-one quite understands
Clarification: I'm Scottish, not Irish. I'm perfectly for the Irish do what they want with their flag within their own country. In fact, it'd be seriously disrespectful to even suggest it's my place to comment.
I was referring to the Irish flag being flown at sporting events within Scotland. Perhaps my comment should read: I'd prefer if the Red Hand or Tricolour were only used at sporting events in Scotland when someone present was representing the relevent nation.
Apologies for not being clear earlier.
from the Celtic Charter
Irish Tri-colour
Celtic is proud of its joint Scottish and Irish identity and the principles the club was founded on. The Irish tri-colour flies as a fond reminder of the positive influence Brother Walfrid and many other Irish people have had on Scottish life.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 01:49:08 PM
I was referring to the Irish flag being flown at sporting events within Scotland. Perhaps my comment should read: I'd prefer if the Red Hand or Tricolour were only used at sporting events in Scotland when someone present was representing the relevent nation.
Opening a can of worms with that terminology Camanachd :D :D :D
Quote from: ardal on February 14, 2012, 01:52:47 PM
I think several things threw me;
Mangers league?
Scotland?
emblems of a conflict from another country?
Sorry for my stupidity
First of all: if you don't piss at least one of you off, I'm probably doing something wrong with terminology. I think it's EG or Nifan's turn next!
Magners league = league that Ulster Rugby play in.
Scotland = "home" for me, although I now live in London (where e'er we go we celebrate, the land that makes us refugees)
For me, the troubles took place in another country, despite the Old Firm, I don't see it as a Scottish issue.
Once again, apologies for the confusion, and thanks for being forgiving to an outsider.
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2012, 01:59:45 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 01:49:08 PM
I was referring to the Irish flag being flown at sporting events within Scotland. Perhaps my comment should read: I'd prefer if the Red Hand or Tricolour were only used at sporting events in Scotland when someone present was representing the relevent nation.
Opening a can of worms with that terminology Camanachd :D :D :D
Wish a Untied Ireland would just hurry up and happen, and save us mainlanders* from the terminological confusion.
*don't worry, that one was deliberate!
If Rangers go out of business, who will Rangers fans then support? And who will Celtic fans hate?
Quote from: BennyCake on February 14, 2012, 02:16:04 PM
If Rangers go out of business, who will Rangers fans then support? And who will Celtic fans hate?
1) FC Rangers 2012 or whoever, if Wimbledon, Accrington Stanley, ALdershot and 1.FC Lokomotive Leipzig can manage it, so can rangers. Especially as the SFA won't be too averse to giving them a leg up.
2) Everyone, after all, everyone hates Celtic, it'd just be closing the circle.
An indebted Derry City was dissolved nearly 2 years ago and was reborn as .... Derry City.
But it had to play in a lower division for a season and gain promotion.
Tick Tock Tick Tock til 3:30
From an accountant on Aberdeen-Mad:-
QuoteIt make a big difference.
A quick pre-pack CVA (where Whyte has say because HMRC are not yet a creditor.) can be arranged, securing the Assets for NewCo Hun FC (Owned by Whyte).
RFC can then be put into liquidation leaving the tax case behind.
Admittedly NewCo Hun FC have to apply to rejoin the FL and possibly SPL, but they are now a debt free company, run from Ibrox with no Tax case pending on them.
HMRC need win the case v der Hun and soon, so that they join the list of creditors and can block any pre-pack.
Yours
aDONis
:star: :star:
rangers will probably escape this without too much harm tbh.
Coleraine in the Irish league did a debt ditching stunt too a good few years back. They went into administration or something like it, shafted all their creditors and setup a new company and business as usual.
Rangers have gone into administration and have been deducted 10 points acc. to the Guardian
Quote from: AQMP on February 14, 2012, 03:02:46 PM
Rangers have gone into administration and have been deducted 10 points acc. to the Guardian
As HMRC's claim isn't yet confirmed, Whyte remains the primary creditor and will rush through a CVA wiith a very low p-in-the-£ return. rangers will pay f*ck all, close the administration out very quickly and it'll be business as usual less ten points. >:(
As I understand CVA, they would still have to pay the creditors more than they would get if the company was liquidised, so presumably given the value of their stadium, this is still going to be one hell of a hefty payment arrangement?
What's the difference between Rangers appointing their own administrator and the Court appointing one?
Quote from: Ulick on February 14, 2012, 03:30:36 PM
As I understand CVA, they would still have to pay the creditors more than they would get if the company was liquidised, so presumably given the value of their stadium, this is still going to be one hell of a hefty payment arrangement?
1) land in Govan isn't worth very much, it's impossible to knock Ibrox down, as it's a listed building. Ibrox is only of value to "a rangers fc".
2) With HMRC out of the picture, Whyte's the main creditor. i.e. it becomes his decision how much he gets back, and at what rate.
Quote from: Main Street on February 14, 2012, 03:34:39 PM
What's the difference between Rangers appointing their own administrator and the Court appointing one?
In practical terms, it'll be a lot easier for them to get an agreement that suits Whyte. In legal terms, I can't help you I'm afraid, I'm an engineer, and ken less than f*ck all about Mercantile Law.
Quote from: Main Street on February 14, 2012, 03:34:39 PM
What's the difference between Rangers appointing their own administrator and the Court appointing one?
Lot of good stuff here
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/category/rangers/ (http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/category/rangers/)
but basically Whyte's admin will do what he tells them and they can legally get away with. HMRC will go for the throat here though and although the case is ongoing, there are rumoured to be substantial unrelated VAT and PAYE bills.
Quote from: Cac orm féin on February 14, 2012, 12:23:31 PM
cant wait for gers supporters to say that hmrc are full of papists and taigs.
as I understand it, HM is ok, it's RC that rangers have problems with.
The BBC have said the following in their article:
It has now emerged that Rangers' game against Kilmarnock on Saturday may not go ahead unless police can be paid.
In a statement, Strathclyde Police said it had a duty to make sure public resources were used appropriately.
Quote from: ziggysego on February 14, 2012, 03:51:44 PM
The BBC have said the following in their article:
It has now emerged that Rangers' game against Kilmarnock on Saturday may not go ahead unless police can be paid.
In a statement, Strathclyde Police said it had a duty to make sure public resources were used appropriately.
Maybe a News International journo could help them out!
had a little chuckle over this.... :D :D :D
(http://i39.tinypic.com/ri51lw.jpg)
Quote from: passedit on February 14, 2012, 03:39:11 PM
Lot of good stuff here
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/category/rangers/ (http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/category/rangers/)
but basically Whyte's admin will do what he tells them and they can legally get away with. HMRC will go for the throat here though and although the case is ongoing, there are rumoured to be substantial unrelated VAT and PAYE bills.
Got to hand it to him, that's some slick move. He's basically bought a company with assets in the tens of £millions for a £1, paid it's multi-million £ debts by borrowing against future tickets sales, moved the valuable assets to another company owned by him and left the all debts in the £1 company. If all goes according to plan, he's home and hosed with no debt, owns the place outright and still has the future ticket sales to do with as he likes. Fuuukk.... would bring a tear to even Berties eye.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 02:11:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2012, 01:59:45 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 01:49:08 PM
I was referring to the Irish flag being flown at sporting events within Scotland. Perhaps my comment should read: I'd prefer if the Red Hand or Tricolour were only used at sporting events in Scotland when someone present was representing the relevent nation.
Opening a can of worms with that terminology Camanachd :D :D :D
Wish a Untied Ireland would just hurry up and happen, and save us mainlanders* from the terminological confusion.
*don't worry, that one was deliberate!
You chaps from North Britain * are only part of an island too :D
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2012, 04:43:29 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 02:11:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2012, 01:59:45 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 01:49:08 PM
I was referring to the Irish flag being flown at sporting events within Scotland. Perhaps my comment should read: I'd prefer if the Red Hand or Tricolour were only used at sporting events in Scotland when someone present was representing the relevent nation.
Opening a can of worms with that terminology Camanachd :D :D :D
Wish a Untied Ireland would just hurry up and happen, and save us mainlanders* from the terminological confusion.
*don't worry, that one was deliberate!
You chaps from North Britain * are only part of an island too :D
;D
Don't you read the Unionist press? Haven't you heard Salmond's out there right now with a big shovel trying to change the situation as we speak?
Quote from: Ulick on February 14, 2012, 04:31:30 PM
Got to hand it to him, that's some slick move. He's basically bought a company with assets in the tens of £millions for a £1, paid it's multi-million £ debts by borrowing against future tickets sales, moved the valuable assets to another company owned by him and left the all debts in the £1 company. If all goes according to plan, he's home and hosed with no debt, owns the place outright and still has the future ticket sales to do with as he likes. Fuuukk.... would bring a tear to even Berties eye.
Unbelievable stuff! Any accountants out there give us their odds on them getting away with this?
Quote from: amallon on February 14, 2012, 04:56:32 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 14, 2012, 04:31:30 PM
Got to hand it to him, that's some slick move. He's basically bought a company with assets in the tens of £millions for a £1, paid it's multi-million £ debts by borrowing against future tickets sales, moved the valuable assets to another company owned by him and left the all debts in the £1 company. If all goes according to plan, he's home and hosed with no debt, owns the place outright and still has the future ticket sales to do with as he likes. Fuuukk.... would bring a tear to even Berties eye.
Unbelievable stuff! Any accountants out there give us their odds on them getting away with this?
Quite high, i think. It depends how much Ticketus have actually lent to RFC, and how much they demand back, and whether HMRC get their claim to stick.
Rumours abound that Ticketus are a subsiduary of a subsiduary...of a subsiduary of a company owned by Whyte.
He's been in this sort of trouble before, he's made a living out of getting companies out of it.
EDIT; I'm in no way an accountant, I'm just paraphrasing accountants and people with experience of mercantile law from Aberdeen-Mad.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 02:11:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2012, 01:59:45 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 01:49:08 PM
I was referring to the Irish flag being flown at sporting events within Scotland. Perhaps my comment should read: I'd prefer if the Red Hand or Tricolour were only used at sporting events in Scotland when someone present was representing the relevent nation.
Opening a can of worms with that terminology Camanachd :D :D :D
Wish a Untied Ireland would just hurry up and happen, and save us mainlanders* from the terminological confusion.
*don't worry, that one was deliberate!
Haha, I thought you said you lived in London not Paris ;)
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 02:19:02 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on February 14, 2012, 02:16:04 PM
If Rangers go out of business, who will Rangers fans then support? And who will Celtic fans hate?
1) FC Rangers 2012 or whoever, if Wimbledon, Accrington Stanley, ALdershot and 1.FC Lokomotive Leipzig can manage it, so can rangers. Especially as the SFA won't be too averse to giving them a leg up.
2) Everyone, after all, everyone hates Celtic, it'd just be closing the circle.
It would mean the new Rangers would have 0 Titles.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 14, 2012, 05:05:14 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 02:11:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2012, 01:59:45 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 01:49:08 PM
I was referring to the Irish flag being flown at sporting events within Scotland. Perhaps my comment should read: I'd prefer if the Red Hand or Tricolour were only used at sporting events in Scotland when someone present was representing the relevent nation.
Opening a can of worms with that terminology Camanachd :D :D :D
Wish a Untied Ireland would just hurry up and happen, and save us mainlanders* from the terminological confusion.
*don't worry, that one was deliberate!
Haha, I thought you said you lived in London not Paris ;)
Have you ever met a native Londoner? To them the mainland is inside the M25, outside the M25, here be dragons.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 04:52:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2012, 04:43:29 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 02:11:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2012, 01:59:45 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 01:49:08 PM
I was referring to the Irish flag being flown at sporting events within Scotland. Perhaps my comment should read: I'd prefer if the Red Hand or Tricolour were only used at sporting events in Scotland when someone present was representing the relevent nation.
Opening a can of worms with that terminology Camanachd :D :D :D
Wish a Untied Ireland would just hurry up and happen, and save us mainlanders* from the terminological confusion.
*don't worry, that one was deliberate!
You chaps from North Britain * are only part of an island too :D
;D
Don't you read the Unionist press? Haven't you heard Salmond's out there right now with a big shovel trying to change the situation as we speak?
Ya but, all Ireland needs to do to stop being any bit British is to remove London's rule, you will always be British ;) ;D
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 05:07:56 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 14, 2012, 05:05:14 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 02:11:05 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 14, 2012, 01:59:45 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 14, 2012, 01:49:08 PM
I was referring to the Irish flag being flown at sporting events within Scotland. Perhaps my comment should read: I'd prefer if the Red Hand or Tricolour were only used at sporting events in Scotland when someone present was representing the relevent nation.
Opening a can of worms with that terminology Camanachd :D :D :D
Wish a Untied Ireland would just hurry up and happen, and save us mainlanders* from the terminological confusion.
*don't worry, that one was deliberate!
Haha, I thought you said you lived in London not Paris ;)
Have you ever met a native Londoner? To them the mainland is inside the M25, outside the M25, here be dragons.
Sounds like the Dubs, inside the M50 is the City State of Dublin known as Ireland, outside is the West!!!!!! Clondalkin, Lucan, Counties Kildare and Meath. The colonies Dundalk, Longford, Mullingar, Portlaoise. The rest is Mordor (NI/6 Counties), & Yokel farmlands the rest. To the East is Mother England.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 14, 2012, 05:12:20 PM
Sounds like the Dubs, inside the M50 is the City State of Dublin known as Ireland, outside is the West!!!!!! Clondalkin, Lucan, Counties Kildare and Meath. The colonies Dundalk, Longford, Mullingar, Portlaoise. The rest is Mordor (NI/6 Counties), & Yokel farmlands the rest. To the East is Mother England.
That comment is beyond the pale >:(
Quote from: passedit on February 14, 2012, 05:17:56 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 14, 2012, 05:12:20 PM
Sounds like the Dubs, inside the M50 is the City State of Dublin known as Ireland, outside is the West!!!!!! Clondalkin, Lucan, Counties Kildare and Meath. The colonies Dundalk, Longford, Mullingar, Portlaoise. The rest is Mordor (NI/6 Counties), & Yokel farmlands the rest. To the East is Mother England.
That comment is beyond the pale >:(
passedit you cannot see beyond your white picket fence ;) :D
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 14, 2012, 05:22:54 PM
Quote from: passedit on February 14, 2012, 05:17:56 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 14, 2012, 05:12:20 PM
Sounds like the Dubs, inside the M50 is the City State of Dublin known as Ireland, outside is the West!!!!!! Clondalkin, Lucan, Counties Kildare and Meath. The colonies Dundalk, Longford, Mullingar, Portlaoise. The rest is Mordor (NI/6 Counties), & Yokel farmlands the rest. To the East is Mother England.
That comment is beyond the pale >:(
passedit you cannot see beyond your white picket fence ;) :D
I prefer my version
This is also worth a look.
http://rangerstaxcase.com (http://rangerstaxcase.com)
http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/bbc_radio_five_live (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/console/bbc_radio_five_live)
Begging bowl out
Seems that as far as the BBC is concerned, the "too big to fail" arguments hold for Rangers as well ::)
Long and informative article on the practicalities of Administration here.
http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/ (http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/)
QuoteWhat Will The Administrators of Rangers Football Club PLC Do?
A quick guide to redundancies, Season Tickets, and administrators
The rules regarding the duties and powers of an administrator are helpfully set out in Schedule B1 to the Insolvency Act 1986.
For just now I am writing on the basis of administration. I am not looking, in this post, at the prospect of Craig Whyte/Rangers FC Group Ltd/ Liberty Capital Ltd or Uncle Tom Cobley or whoever holds the Rangers Floating Charge appointing a receiver. With my recent record, one will be appointed by the time I hit "publish" but never mind!
What is the purpose of administration?
Paragraph 3 (1) of the Schedule spells it out.
The administrator of a company must perform his functions with the objective of—
(a) rescuing the company as a going concern, or
(b) achieving a better result for the company's creditors as a whole than would be likely if the company were wound up (without first being in administration), or
(c) realising property in order to make a distribution to one or more secured or preferential creditors.
How might this affect Rangers (and when I refer to Rangers I am referring to Rangers Football Club PLC (in administration))?
We should bear in mind that with the exception mentioned below, all this must be done in accordance with sub paragraph 2 which states:-
Subject to sub-paragraph (4), the administrator of a company must perform his functions in the interests of the company's creditors as a whole.
Can the administrators rescue Rangers as a going concern?
I think that is impossible. We have not seen the latest accounts for Rangers, which were to be published by the end of 2011. Mr Whyte repeatedly promised them, indeed telling Rangers supporters that he was to meet with the auditors, Grant Thornton, on 6th February, to finalise them.
The speculation is that Grant Thornton could not agree with Rangers about whether or not the accounts should be qualified as regards the ability of Rangers to operate as a going concern, in light of the "Big Tax Case". It is also possible, standing what HMRC told the Court of Session today about tax debts accrued since Mr Whyte took over in May, that there were issues about these too.
In any event, as Mr Whyte stated yesterday "As I have said before, Rangers costs approximately £45 million per year to operate and commands around £35 million in revenue". In addition, there is a potential tax liability in total, according to Mr Whyte, of £75 million.
There is no way that that can be traded out of. Even if Cristiano Ronaldo, Lionel Messi and Carlos Tevez played for Rangers, and could be sold now, Rangers very public distressed circumstances would preclude them raising the funds to make enough of a difference. For all the quality Rangers undoubtedly have, it is not up there with the three gentlemen I mentioned.
Can the administrators achieve a better result for the company's creditors as a whole than would be likely if the company were wound up (without first being in administration)?
This is an interesting one. What will it cost to keep Rangers running until the end of the season, and the sale of, for example, new season tickets or of the remaining high value players?
If Rangers go into liquidation, then the players' contracts are ended, and they become free agents, with no transfer fees payable to Rangers when they sign with new clubs.
This might suggest that it would be a good thing for the administrators to try to keep things going till the next transfer window, and seek to carry out a fire sale then. This poses a couple of problems. Firstly, I am sure that the players would want paid in the intervening period, and secondly, the players, and their agents, will realise that a player able to sign as a free agent will receive more money than one for whom a transfer fee has to be paid. In addition, as regards transfers, normally a player who has not sought a transfer receives a payment from his former club, as well as his signing on fee from his new team.
Should the administrators sell a player, I imagine that it would be difficult to justify taking a large sum, even if only a small percentage, to pay the player who is leaving. The creditors, and especially HMRC, would be watching such transactions like a hawk.
There are two problems as regards the season tickets. The first is that in excess of 25,000 have already been sold to Ticketus for season 2012-2013. Therefore, unless the administrator reneges on the deal, leaving Ticketus as a creditor, there will be little or no money coming in from the season ticket source. In addition, the administrator could give no guarantees that Rangers would be able to play a full season, and therefore fans would be taking a gamble.
Could the administrators organise a sale and leaseback of Ibrox or Murray Park, for example, or a sale of Rangers' assets? Yes, although the liquidator could do this just as well, if not better.
Without definitive figures it is not easy to be clear about this, but it does seem that the costs of running the team till August, which is what would be required to get to the end of the transfer window, would be prohibitive.
This comes after the "going concern" possibility and sub-paragraph 3 states:-
"The administrator must perform his functions with the objective specified in sub-paragraph (1) (a) unless he thinks either—
(a) that it is not reasonably practicable to achieve that objective, or
(b) that the objective specified in sub-paragraph (1) (b) would achieve a better result for the company's creditors as a whole."
So, only if the company cannot be run as a going concern, or of this will be better for all the creditors, does this possibility kick in. Here the administrators must still act for all the creditors.
Will the administrators realise property in order to make a distribution to secured creditors?
As I have mentioned, there is a Floating Charge. This was originally in favour of the Bank of Scotland, and the rights under it were assigned to Rangers FC Group Ltd (hereafter "Group") once Mr Whyte paid off the debt due to Lloyds Bank. There has been much speculation about who now has the Floating Charge.
I wrote about this recently, and the suspects seem to be (a) Liberty Capital Ltd (Mr Whyte's BVI company) (b) "Group" (c) Ticketus, in connection with the season ticket deal or (d) AN Other.
Let us say that, for simplicity, "Group" remains the Floating Charge holder.
The administrators could devote their efforts to "realising property" to pay off "Group". The liability to "Group" includes the £18 million paid to Lloyds, together with the various sums invested in Rangers by "Group" and interest charges and management fees.
The administrators could determine that the best option would be, in the scenario I have outlined, to transfer the stadium, subject to its valuation, to "Group" in settlement of the debt, then leaving the remaining creditors to fight over Murray Park and the players.
This is a similar process to that in receivership.
There has been concern that an administrator in these circumstances could decide that the value of the assets in Rangers matches the sums due to the secured creditor under the Floating Charge and hand them over at a significant under value.
This is foreseen by Sub-Paragraphs 2 and 4. Sub-Paragraph 2, as quoted above, enjoins the administrator to work in the interests of the creditors as a whole, except as detailed in sub-paragraph 4, which states:-
The administrator may perform his functions with the objective specified in sub-paragraph (1) (c) only if—
(a) he thinks that it is not reasonably practicable to achieve either of the objectives specified in sub-paragraph (1) (a) and (b), and
(b) he does not unnecessarily harm the interests of the creditors of the company as a whole.
Therefore, before the administrator can act, effectively, as a receiver, he must first be satisfied that it is not reasonably practicable to fulfil either of the first two goals and also he cannot act to the detriment of the totality of creditors. Therefore a "cosy" deal as outlined above would need to be justifiable based on proper asset valuations and debt figures which would stand up to scrutiny. For example if "Group" wanted to state that it was owed £100 million (by way of example) the administrators could not simply accept that without evidence.
Sub-Paragraph 4 requires the administrator to "perform his functions as quickly and efficiently as is reasonably practicable."
What is the Effect of Administration?
Whilst an administration order is in effect there can neither be a resolution of the company to wind it self up, nor can the court grant a petition for winding up. (There are limited exceptions but these do not apply here.)
In addition, no steps can be taken to enforce security over the company's property, or to institute or continue legal action against the company, without the consent of the administrator or the court.
These steps are intended to allow the company breathing space to clear its feet and pursue one of the purposes of administration, as detailed above.
Whilst the Schedule refers to "no legal process" being pursued, I wonder if non-legal methods might be permissible. For example, it appears that Rangers are indebted to certain other SPL teams. If the team chose to proceed via the SPL, as the Hearts players did when not paid their wages, rather than by court or tribunal, would that "Quasi legal" course amount to a "legal process"?
On one view, if the administrators intend to keep Rangers going, then, as payments to other teams fall due, the SPL could be called in to resolve matters. As was seen with Hearts, when an undertaking was made to the SPL and broken there was a charge of failing to act with the "utmost good faith". Might this, rather than a court action, be the way to proceed for SPL teams owed by Rangers?
Presumably, if the SPL entertained the application, the administrators would need to go to court for an order to prevent the SPL continuing with action?
Publicity
Under Paragraph 45, when a company is in administration, all business documents issued by the company and the company website must specify that the company is in administration and who the administrators are.
It is an offence by the administrators, officers of the company and the company not to do so. As at 11.35pm on 14th February, the Rangers.co.uk website is not displaying the required notice. I am sure that will be remedied very soon.
What Must the Administrator Do?
Paragraph 47 tells the administrator that he can demand a statement of affairs of the company from a "relevant person". A "relevant person" is an employee or officer of the company, or someone who has been so within 12 months prior to the administration order.
Any person called upon to produce such a statement must do so within 11 days of being required to do so, and failure to do so constitutes a criminal offence.
The statement must contain: – particulars of the company's property, debts and liabilities; the names and addresses of the company's creditors; the security held by each creditor; and the date on which each security was granted.
Within 8 weeks of appointment the administrators must issue their proposals for achieving the purposes of administration. If the administrators decide that they cannot fulfil the first or second purposes, then they must explain why. The proposal may include a CVA. I calculate that the proposals must be forthcoming by 10th April 2012.
Within 10 weeks of the order there must be a meeting of creditors unless the administrator thinks (a) there is enough to pay all creditors in full (b) there is not enough to pay any unsecured creditor anything or (c) that they will proceed to satisfy only the secured creditor.
If at least 10% of the creditors by value of debt request a creditors' meeting, one must be held.
Powers of the Administrators
The administrators can do anything necessary or expedient for the management of the affairs, business or property of the company, including the dismissal or appointment of directors.
The administrators are able to use assets of the company to fund their activities. If the administrators have no funds available in the company to do so, then normally they would seek a contribution from an "interested party". Here Mr Whyte has already said that "Group" is willing to put up funds for this purpose.
A cynical friend suggested that would actually be the first money "Group" had put up since it bought Rangers.
Will what is paid over be enough (a) to fund the match on Saturday (b) pay the staff wages for February and (c) keep the club running till the proposal can be made and voted on?
Redundancies
The administrator has the power to terminate contracts of employment. When Bryan Jackson was appointed administrator of Motherwell in 2002, he made 19 players redundant immediately.
The salaries paid by Rangers to its players will be high, yet, as often happens in these cases, there are many of the "lesser" employees made redundant from ticket office, admin etc, whose wages would be covered by one or two players.
It is likely, on imagines, that the administrator will make redundant a number of players at Ibrox, together with members of the backroom staff and other employees.
Players who are injured, for example, or whose contracts are expiring in the summer, or who are not worth their place in the squad will be first to go.
The administrators may, subject to the amount of money they have available to them, keep a couple of the high earners, in the hope of selling them. However money will be very tight, and there will not be cup-ties to fill the coffers.
Anyone made redundant would have the right to a redundancy payment, but subject to the basic statutory rules, rather than to contractual ones. If Rangers cannot pay redundancy payments, then the employees can apply to the redundancy fund for a basic payment. This is of far more relevance for the non-playing and managing staff.
As well as some top names being let go, it would not be a surprise to see (a) some of Ally McCoist's support team released and (b) perhaps even Ali Russell and/or Gordon Smith. It all depends on how much "Group" is willing to put in.
I suspect now might be a great time to be a youth player or lowly paid reserve, as the chances of a first team game have increased hugely! This could be the making of some youngsters, who could end up as part of a newco Rangers, or indeed who could be snapped up by other teams.
Season Tickets
This is an interesting one. The administrators can effectively rip up existing contracts with suppliers etc. Season ticket holders have already paid for their seats and, for the unexpired portion of their ticket, are creditors of the club.
In smaller examples of football insolvency, and Motherwell count as a "smaller" example, the appointment of an administrator has resulted in cancellation of season tickets, and a mass rallying round by the fans, who were happy to dig into their pockets to pay at the gate, and who were willing to chuck a few pounds into the buckets and tins being used to gather up funds for the administrator.
The Administrators Therefore Have Some Choices
1 Do they want the game on Saturday to go ahead? There are substantial costs in holding a game, and will the administrators have the funds for that purpose?
2 How will the administrators deal with the season ticket holders? Will they think it worthwhile letting them in, effectively for free, as they will consume food and drink when at the ground (which ignores the assumption that the catering income has been mortgaged off too). Will the season ticket holders be happy to pay at the gate for a game they have already paid for? Will fans who have spent their hard-earned cash on their season tickets be happy to be turned away unless they pay again?
3 How many players will they need to get rid of to make the running of the time manageable financially, whilst retaining enough quality to put out a competitive team?
4 Will any players be willing to accept reductions in their wages or even giving their club a break from paying them for playing, till Rangers' heath improves?
5 Will the fans be willing to pay to see a team shorn of its star players?
After Saturday's home game with Kilmarnock, the next match which will generate funds is a home game with Heats on 3rd March. The next is the Celtic game on 25th March. There are two more payrolls to be paid, with only two matches to fund them.
In addition, the Hearts game comes just after the new Offensive Behaviour etc Act comes into force, and I would imagine the police will want an increased presence at all matches in the early days of the new rules, resulting in higher costs for policing and stewarding.
Based on Craig Whyte's figures that it costs £45 million per year to run Rangers, a simplistic calculation shows that to run for the 8 weeks till proposals are made, without any cuts would take around £7.5 million.
Does anyone believe that "Group" will be forthcoming in that amount? I suspect not!
Conclusion
So the Rangers end game comes ever nearer to an end.
The administrators have urgent and difficult decisions to make.
So too do the players and staff who might be offered redundancy, or the chance to play for no money. Will loyalty to Rangers get in the way of the understandable desire to maximise income?
The advice we give to people with debt issues who attend at the Citizen's Advice Bureau is that the first step it maximise income and reduce expenditure.
Rangers cannot increase the income side, at this time of year. The administrators might cut savagely, leaving the first team squad decimated (colloquial rather than literal).
There remains a lot still to be written about Mr Whyte, but that is enough for tonight.
Good information there Passedit, thanks.
I read in that http://rangerstaxcase.com blog about the Jelavic transfer
http://rangerstaxcase.com/2012/01/30/jelavic-transfer-what-is-at-stake/
The total transfer fee was £4m and when Whyte took over there was still £2.4 unpaid. It is reckoned that at least £1.4m is still unpaid.
Yet, while the whole world and their dog knew that Rangers were not compliant with the rules of the League, they could sell Jelavic on for £5m upfront plus £3m over a period. Rapid Vienna will now join the creditors queue, where pounds turn to pennies.
Quote from: Main Street on February 15, 2012, 10:55:30 AM
Good information there Passedit, thanks.
I read in that http://rangerstaxcase.com blog about the Jelavic transfer
http://rangerstaxcase.com/2012/01/30/jelavic-transfer-what-is-at-stake/
The total transfer fee was £4m and when Whyte took over there was still £2.4 unpaid. It is reckoned that at least £1.4m is still unpaid.
Yet, while the whole world and their dog knew that Rangers were not compliant with the rules of the League, they could sell Jelavic on for £5m upfront plus £3m over a period. Rapid Vienna will now join the creditors queue, where pounds turn to pennies.
It's fascinating in a morbid car crash type way. On Jelavic and others, the following quotes from a couple of hearts fans on the taxcase blog hit the nail right on the head.
QuoteMark Dickson says:
15/02/2012 at 11:26 am
5 0 Rate This
Something that needs to be put into perspective. Even forgetting the big tax case and the wee tax case relating to the previous Rangers owners stewardship and under-payment of taxes – yesterday and today we are confronted with the truth that Rangers current owner Mr Craig Whyte has CHEATED the other 11 SPL clubs by not paying taxes this season amount to NINE MILLION POUNDS.
Think about that – that's money RFC have used to pay players, sign players, run their club but not pay HMRC or other SPL club creditors and have enjoyed a financial advantage that is BIGGER than the annual revenue of every single club below them in the SPL.
Hearts total revenue is approx £8M and every other SPL team is less than that. They have all had to pay taxes and creditors. Rangers have shafted and will shaft theirs.
Rangers have cheated the SPL and enjoyed a NINE MILLION POUND ADVANTAGE THIS SEASON.
nevermind no newco RFC in the SPL how about we look a the current RFC also being disqualified and expelled?
===========================
Mark,
Very apposite summing up of the situation. Let me make it even more pointed. On 23rd October Rangers visited Tyncastle and defeated Hearts
the clinching goal was scored by Jelavic, who has never and will never be fully paid for . A mainstay of the Rangers team that day was lee Wallace who has not and never will be fully paid for.
Every player who played that day for Rangers was paid for with monies which belonged to the Taxpayer.
yet .....we need Rangers.......why , so we can all be cheated again......so another group of suppliers can be shafted.......so that the taxpayer can take another doing at the hands of a morally and financially bankrupt club
really ? are we all that stupid that we would sign up for this again
QuoteMark Dickson says:
15/02/2012 at 11:26 am
5 0 Rate ===========================
Mark,
Very apposite summing up of the situation. Let me make it even more pointed. On 23rd October Rangers visited Tyncastle and defeated Hearts
the clinching goal was scored by Jelavic, who has never and will never be fully paid for . A mainstay of the Rangers team that day was lee Wallace who has not and never will be fully paid for.
Every player who played that day for Rangers was paid for with monies which belonged to the Taxpayer.
yet .....we need Rangers.......why , so we can all be cheated again......so another group of suppliers can be shafted.......so that the taxpayer can take another doing at the hands of a morally and financially bankrupt club
really ? are we all that stupid that we would sign up for this again
We're not. But I wouldn't be surprised if some SPL chairmen can't look beyond the payday that an Old Firm away support brings.
Dream scenario: Rangers go bust, and reenter the system in the 3rd division. As they work their way back up, all the wee clubs get one big cash injection from the visiting away support - like a cup run. This money goes into infrastructure or youth development.
Meanwhile in the SPL, Celtic lose some of their "brand" by not having "the other", and instead become a "big Scottish club". A renewed Hearts*, Hibs, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd are able to pressure them, and win cups, and maybe one of them has a 9 month run of good luck culminating in a title. Failing that a decent season is more likely to result in a European payday.
EDIT: * if Hearts survive, that is...
Quote from: LondonCamanachd link=topic=21160.msg1080812#msg1080812
i]We're[/i] not. But I wouldn't be surprised if some SPL chairmen can't look beyond the payday that an Old Firm away support brings.
Dream scenario: Rangers go bust, and reenter the system in the 3rd division. As they work their way back up, all the wee clubs get one big cash injection from the visiting away support - like a cup run. This money goes into infrastructure or youth development.
Meanwhile in the SPL, Celtic lose some of their "brand" by not having "the other", and instead become a "big Scottish club". A renewed Hearts*, Hibs, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd are able to pressure them, and win cups, and maybe one of them has a 9 month run of good luck culminating in a title. Failing that a decent season is more likely to result in a European payday.
even if this means Celtic dont get as much money, I dont think this will derail them .
They are used to the receeding monies from spl and scotland this past few years. Global branding and merchandising as well as any kind of run in europe is the holy grail for revenue these days.
co-efficient going down hardly matters now as the spl champs will get to play in qualifiers.
no harm to you , reading what you say about glasweegies prev - but aberdeen ar not exactly angels or known to be welcoming - ask a few Irish (donegal) friends of mine who were in uni in aberdeen and got the heads kicked off them by the aberden ultras for being Irish ! (not for supporting Celtic or any open shows of Irishness of colours etc).
Quote from: camanchero on February 15, 2012, 02:27:48 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd link=topic=21160.msg1080812#msg1080812
i]We're[/i] not. But I wouldn't be surprised if some SPL chairmen can't look beyond the payday that an Old Firm away support brings.
Dream scenario: Rangers go bust, and reenter the system in the 3rd division. As they work their way back up, all the wee clubs get one big cash injection from the visiting away support - like a cup run. This money goes into infrastructure or youth development.
Meanwhile in the SPL, Celtic lose some of their "brand" by not having "the other", and instead become a "big Scottish club". A renewed Hearts*, Hibs, Aberdeen and Dundee Utd are able to pressure them, and win cups, and maybe one of them has a 9 month run of good luck culminating in a title. Failing that a decent season is more likely to result in a European payday.
even if this means Celtic dont get as much money, I dont think this will derail them .
They are used to the receeding monies from spl and scotland this past few years. Global branding and merchandising as well as any kind of run in europe is the holy grail for revenue these days.
co-efficient going down hardly matters now as the spl champs will get to play in qualifiers.
no harm to you , reading what you say about glasweegies prev - but aberdeen ar not exactly angels or known to be welcoming - ask a few Irish (donegal) friends of mine who were in uni in aberdeen and got the heads kicked off them by the aberden ultras for being Irish ! (not for supporting Celtic or any open shows of Irishness of colours etc).
Very, very unlikely to be the Red Ultras.
Far more likely to be the Aberdeen Soccer Casuals, who are, to a man, utter ringpieces, and seem to loathe the rest of the Aberdeen support for not being like them. I'm very sorry that that happened to your pals, I was friends with a lot of irish people at Uni, and thankfully your firends' experience was very rare. Aberdonians, by and large, are welcoming. Football hooligans, by and large, are repellent violent pricks. Luckily, they seem to be a dying breed.
Celtic wouldn't be "derailed", European money and the diaspora would see to that, but it might result in a slightly more competetive league.
EDIT: sorry for bad spelling - I'm getting the flash up and down glitch, whcih makes correcting mistakes a ballache.
Was reading this thread last night.
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8647372/1/ (http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8647372/1/)
Quote from: Ulick on February 15, 2012, 02:47:25 PM
Was reading this thread last night.
http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8647372/1/ (http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/topic/8647372/1/)
That link flagged a security threat on my computer.
Nah, it's a safe link. The "huns" have probably reported it maliciously to Google or someone as a security threat. It's a thread on a Celtic forum dealing with Rangers in administration. Much hilarity, rolling around laughing etc...
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 15, 2012, 02:46:54 PM
Very, very unlikely to be the Red Ultras.
Far more likely to be the Aberdeen Soccer Casuals, who are, to a man, utter ringpieces, and seem to loathe the rest of the Aberdeen support for not being like them. I'm very sorry that that happened to your pals, I was friends with a lot of irish people at Uni, and thankfully your firends' experience was very rare. Aberdonians, by and large, are welcoming. Football hooligans, by and large, are repellent violent pricks. Luckily, they seem to be a dying breed.
Celtic wouldn't be "derailed", European money and the diaspora would see to that, but it might result in a slightly more competetive league.
I didnt realise there was another group to rival the ultras !
Actually think the league is getting more competitive anyhow. Can be a lot more enjoyable watching some spl games and their out and out atack and honesty in comparison to some of the epl borefests.
Dundee utd used to be great to watch imo.
Quote from: Ulick on February 15, 2012, 03:13:50 PM
Nah, it's a safe link. The "huns" have probably reported it maliciously to Google or someone as a security threat. It's a thread on a Celtic forum dealing with Rangers in administration. Much hilarity, rolling around laughing etc...
The Greatest Halftime Show Ever !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktOZTTeo_Z0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktOZTTeo_Z0&feature=related)
Quote from: camanchero on February 15, 2012, 04:23:28 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 15, 2012, 02:46:54 PM
Very, very unlikely to be the Red Ultras.
Far more likely to be the Aberdeen Soccer Casuals, who are, to a man, utter ringpieces, and seem to loathe the rest of the Aberdeen support for not being like them. I'm very sorry that that happened to your pals, I was friends with a lot of irish people at Uni, and thankfully your firends' experience was very rare. Aberdonians, by and large, are welcoming. Football hooligans, by and large, are repellent violent pricks. Luckily, they seem to be a dying breed.
Celtic wouldn't be "derailed", European money and the diaspora would see to that, but it might result in a slightly more competetive league.
I didnt realise there was another group to rival the ultras !
Actually think the league is getting more competitive anyhow. Can be a lot more enjoyable watching some spl games and their out and out atack and honesty in comparison to some of the epl borefests.
Dundee utd used to be great to watch imo.
The Red Ultras don't exist anymore. Although they called themselves "Ultras" they were more inspried by the German scene than the Italian one. They were all about noise colour, flags, displays, smoke etc, and zero violence. Think Green Brigade less the political agenda.
The Aberdeen Soccer Casuals were the 80s firm, that, along with Hibs and Motherwell, had a reputation for brutal violence, smug wankery and fake South London accents. They never wore colours, and would often rather fight their opponents in waste ground away from the park than actually, y'know, support the team.
I got jumped in Aberdeen by a coked-up arsehole looking for a fight, if your pals adn't been Irish, it would've been something else that set the w*nkers off. I used to go Aberdeen games with a crowd of students from Ulster (Derry City supporters) plus a few English blokes,. Sure, they got a few funny looks for their accents at the game, but never any hassle.
I don't mean to sound so defensive, but Aberdeen is a very safe and welcoming city.
I don't think the SPL is getting more competitive overall, but over the last five years, the competition for the Europa League places can be very exciting. It often goes to the last game of the season, and tends to be a different team every year.
What are the chances it's all part of Mr Whyte's masteplan?
Quote15 Feb 2012 15:38:25
I think Whyte has a master plan. Think about it he is using administration as a fast track way of getting us out of debt. Forfit the league this year and have the club in shape next season. Point
1 He is the main credidor and is owed 18mil so basicly he will safe guard ibrox stadium.
2. He will not have to pay the full amount to the tax man.
3. The money from season tickets and jelavic where is it?
I reckon because the club is in admin the people who gave the money wont get a penny. Then comes the master plan Mr whyte starts a new Rangers because the stadium is his and so is some of the players. Then comes the money from season tickets from the old Rangers and the money from Jelavic. Basicly we are debt free with some money to spend.
Quote from: AQMP on February 15, 2012, 09:13:16 AM
Seems that as far as the BBC is concerned, the "too big to fail" arguments hold for Rangers as well ::)
To bigoted to fail?
Waiver: May in fact be joking.
one down one to go. hopefully celtic are next then scottish football can move forward
Quote from: Main Street on February 15, 2012, 04:44:32 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 15, 2012, 03:13:50 PM
Nah, it's a safe link. The "huns" have probably reported it maliciously to Google or someone as a security threat. It's a thread on a Celtic forum dealing with Rangers in administration. Much hilarity, rolling around laughing etc...
The Greatest Halftime Show Ever !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktOZTTeo_Z0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktOZTTeo_Z0&feature=related)
brilliant, hahaha
Quote from: Benny Sweeney on February 15, 2012, 08:08:48 PM
one down one to go. hopefully celtic are next then scottish football can move forward
Quote from: Main Street on February 15, 2012, 10:57:39 PM
Yeah, lay off the kids, Charlie,. No need to clobber them with a sledgehammer.
You have to make allowances for multi level disfunction with attention seekers who are finding their way around internet discussion boardS. There was absolutely no need to call him a t**t.
;D
ah, just seen the other thread, didn't realise yer man had history on here.
Dunfermline have just about written off their chances of getting £80,000 they are owed by Rangers for ticket sale to Rangers' fans for their last fixture.
That puts DAFC in a precarious position, they're a club who cut their cloth accordingly in order to survive these past years.
Hearts are owed £800,000 for the sale of a player.
I say the SPL should confiscate the 2011/12 TV money due to Rangers and use it to pay their debts to other SPL clubs.
Quote from: Main Street on February 16, 2012, 12:16:48 PM
Dunfermline have just about written off their chances of getting £80,000 they are owed by Rangers for ticket sale to Rangers' fans for their last fixture.
That puts DAFC in a precarious position, they're a club who cut their cloth accordingly in order to survive these past years.
Hearts are owed £800,000 for the sale of a player.
I say the SPL should confiscate the 2011/12 TV money due to Rangers and use it to pay their debts to other SPL clubs.
Dunfermline may go bust because rangers can't honour their commitments, and yet I'm still hearing that rangers reformed may be allowed back into the SPL. If that happens I'm through with football. Which hurling team plays in red and white, Cork?
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 16, 2012, 12:25:16 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 16, 2012, 12:16:48 PM
Dunfermline have just about written off their chances of getting £80,000 they are owed by Rangers for ticket sale to Rangers' fans for their last fixture.
That puts DAFC in a precarious position, they're a club who cut their cloth accordingly in order to survive these past years.
Hearts are owed £800,000 for the sale of a player.
I say the SPL should confiscate the 2011/12 TV money due to Rangers and use it to pay their debts to other SPL clubs.
Dunfermline may go bust because rangers can't honour their commitments, and yet I'm still hearing that rangers reformed may be allowed back into the SPL. If that happens I'm through with football. Which hurling team plays in red and white, Cork?
Yeah, Cork, but they don't need any more help. They're one of the Irish Old Firm along with Tipp and Kilkenny. Support Offaly instead, wear the tricolour and live for brief flashes of glory :) A bit like an Irish Aberdeen actually.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 16, 2012, 12:28:43 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 16, 2012, 12:25:16 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 16, 2012, 12:16:48 PM
Dunfermline have just about written off their chances of getting £80,000 they are owed by Rangers for ticket sale to Rangers' fans for their last fixture.
That puts DAFC in a precarious position, they're a club who cut their cloth accordingly in order to survive these past years.
Hearts are owed £800,000 for the sale of a player.
I say the SPL should confiscate the 2011/12 TV money due to Rangers and use it to pay their debts to other SPL clubs.
Dunfermline may go bust because rangers can't honour their commitments, and yet I'm still hearing that rangers reformed may be allowed back into the SPL. If that happens I'm through with football. Which hurling team plays in red and white, Cork?
Yeah, Cork, but they don't need any more help. They're one of the Irish Old Firm along with Tipp and Kilkenny. Support Offaly instead, wear the tricolour and live for brief flashes of glory :) A bit like an Irish Aberdeen actually.
Having followed Aberdeen and Scotland all my life, and trying to (re)start a shinty team in London, I reckon I'm owed a bit of glory hunting...
And Aberdeen did used to play in black and gold stripes, so i could easily swithc my allegiance depending on who was winning. And I once pulled a girl from Kerry, so that's my football allegiance sorted. This GAA stuff is easy...
Doesn't say much for your charm if you remark about 'pulling a girl from Kerry' ;D
And if she taught you anything, aside from blow by blow accounts of the vagaries of cows being rounded up on a cold winter's morning, she would have mentioned 'Cork' at the same time as she aimed for the spittoon. You did know that bowl on the floor was a spittoon didn't you?
The GAA stuff is not as easy as it might appear.
Quote from: Main Street on February 16, 2012, 01:22:34 PM
Doesn't say much for your charm if you remark about 'pulling a girl from Kerry' ;D
Sadly I think it shows her judgement was flawed rather than mine...
Quote from: Main Street on February 16, 2012, 01:22:34 PM
And if she taught you anything, aside from blow by blow accounts of the vagaries of cows being rounded up on a cold winter's morning, she would have mentioned 'Cork' at the same time as she aimed for the spittoon. You did know that bowl on the floor was a spittoon didn't you?
Spittoon!? Ok, she probably now thinks the Scots have
really overactive saliva glands... :-\
I don't think she mentioned cows, but then discourse between somebody from the West Coast of Ireland and the North East of Scotland will always be founded on mutual incomprehensibility, ken?
Quote from: Main Street on February 16, 2012, 01:22:34 PM
The GAA stuff is not as easy as it might appear.
Sure it is, yis are allowed to catch the ball and everything ;-)
Quote from: LondonCamanachd link=topic=21160.msg1081146#msg1081146
Which hurling team plays in red and white, Cork?
/quote]
Nah, Cork believe the country is made up of people who are either from Cork or "Not Cork".
You want to support Derry (not them feckin Tyrone hoors)
Nah, Offaly is the team for you. Sure Willie Miller even played for us..
(http://shop.sportsworldcards.com/ekmps/shops/sportsworld/images/aberdeen-willie-miller-451-panini-football-78-sticker-5071-p.jpg)
(http://offaly.gaa.ie/_/rsrc/1277817088501/config/pagetemplates/offaly-s-all-stars/Untitled-29.jpg?height=200&width=142)
Rangers are renaming their stadium. It's going to be called...
Ibrokes
;)
Quote from: Main Street on February 15, 2012, 04:44:32 PM
The Greatest Halftime Show Ever !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktOZTTeo_Z0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktOZTTeo_Z0&feature=related)
Very good, although yer man shouting "AGAIN!" needs a slap. Attention-seeking fecker
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 16, 2012, 01:53:26 PM
Nah, Offaly is the team for you. Sure Willie Miller even played for us..
(http://shop.sportsworldcards.com/ekmps/shops/sportsworld/images/aberdeen-willie-miller-451-panini-football-78-sticker-5071-p.jpg)
(http://offaly.gaa.ie/_/rsrc/1277817088501/config/pagetemplates/offaly-s-all-stars/Untitled-29.jpg?height=200&width=142)
Did Willie ever throw the ball into the net?
(Pool ol' LondonCamanachd, his head will be wrecked before this is over)
Sure you'd have to throw it in with Conor Hayes or Sylvie Linnane trying to rape you!
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 16, 2012, 01:58:29 PM
Sure you'd have to throw it in with Conor Hayes or Sylvie Linnane trying to rape you!
I just wouldn't take to the field in the first place.
Quote from: deiseach on February 16, 2012, 01:55:30 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 15, 2012, 04:44:32 PM
The Greatest Halftime Show Ever !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktOZTTeo_Z0&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktOZTTeo_Z0&feature=related)
Very good, although yer man shouting "AGAIN!" needs a slap. Attention-seeking fecker
Watched that.
Not a big fan of this crap; would rather the victories were in goals scored than court administration, but could some one please translate. I understood "the huns are going bust", but the bit before ???? something about a river?
Quote from: deiseach on February 16, 2012, 01:57:23 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 16, 2012, 01:53:26 PM
Nah, Offaly is the team for you. Sure Willie Miller even played for us..
photos x2
Did Willie ever throw the ball into the net?
(Pool ol' LondonCamanachd, his head will be wrecked before this is over)
Judging from photos of footballers and...ahem...imported Dutch and German videos: everyone looked like that in the 80s, so that proves nothing!
So far my options are Cork, Kilkenny, Kerry, Derry, Tyrone and Offaly.
The first two are discounted on grounds of gloryhunting, Kerry on the grounds of a nightmarish chamber pot/spitoon misadventure, Derry on the grounds that I don't sound like I've had my balls slammed in a drawer (this might've just been the one Derry boy I knew at Uni, hi!), Tyrone on the grounds that Derry have objected, Offaly because, whilst an ignorant f*cker, I'm not big...
Only 26 more to choose from...
Well, if you are actively touting your supporting services, and are willing to forego the red and white, there is only one county that you can really approach..
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7a/Kildare.png)
Plus, the commute time to London from Newbridge or somewhere would be shorter than Cavan to Straffan, so you'd be sound.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 16, 2012, 02:20:21 PM
Quote from: deiseach on February 16, 2012, 01:57:23 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 16, 2012, 01:53:26 PM
Nah, Offaly is the team for you. Sure Willie Miller even played for us..
photos x2
Did Willie ever throw the ball into the net?
(Pool ol' LondonCamanachd, his head will be wrecked before this is over)
Judging from photos of footballers and...ahem...imported Dutch and German videos: everyone looked like that in the 80s, so that proves nothing!
So far my options are Cork, Kilkenny, Kerry, Derry, Tyrone and Offaly.
The first two are discounted on grounds of gloryhunting, Kerry on the grounds of a nightmarish chamber pot/spitoon misadventure, Derry on the grounds that I don't sound like I've had my balls slammed in a drawer (this might've just been the one Derry boy I knew at Uni, hi!), Tyrone on the grounds that Derry have objected, Offaly because, whilst an ignorant f*cker, I'm not big...
Only 26 more to choose from...
Just be a Larry - you have it all: (a) highlight of the year will be the O'Byrne Cup/Bihatimber in Jan, when you're bored and have nothing better to be doing, (b) you'll only need to keep a fleeting glance at the National League in the Spring; the culmination will be Sunday afternoons in Spring while you're cutting the grass, (c) there will be a fleeting anticipation for a day in May/June in advance of the annual trouncing, (d) you'll be free to go anywhere on earth on your holidays in July/August, as you won't have to be looking for an Irish pub that shows the Sunday Game, and (e) you can adopt a haughty insouciance toward those counties that have pretensions of glory/greatness, for 12 months of the year generally. Take the preferential route to happiness - join the Larries (no fees, no returns).
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 16, 2012, 02:20:21 PM
Only 26 more to choose from...
Your London roots mean you should look West, or
wheshht as you will pronounce it from now on.
You will have to demonstrate the ability to endure wild mood swings, leaping for joy in euphoric optimism one second, banging your head off the ground the next.
You will need to learn how to ignore your neighbours love of sheep and naked billiards.
You will develop an Arsenal like indifference to a lack of silverware.
Finally once you have mastered the skill of inducing a state of zen calmness, while watching your hopes being sucked into a blender and shoved back out through your arse at high velocity, then you will have become a true Mayo supporter.
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2012, 02:59:55 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 16, 2012, 02:20:21 PM
Only 26 more to choose from...
Your London roots mean you should look West, or wheshht as you will pronounce it from now on.
You will have to demonstrate the ability to endure wild mood swings, leaping for joy in euphoric optimism one second, banging your head off the ground the next.
You will need to learn how to ignore your neighbours love of sheep and naked billiards.
You will develop an Arsenal like indifference to a lack of silverware.
Finally once you have mastered the skill of inducing a state of zen calmness, while watching your hopes being sucked into a blender and shoved back out through your arse at high velocity, then you will have become a true Mayo supporter.
That could all sound like Aberdeen FC, if you replaced "ignore" with "indulge, facilitiate and participate in".
Don't forget Louth, another dearg agus ban county.
Just dislike Mayo , Camanachd , and you'll get on grand here in lovely underestimated Roscommon , the hidden heart of Ireland.
We don't expect much from life so we're seldom disappointed but we always have the consolation of knowing that we are a breed apart , a royal race , and of course totally superior to the smelly uncouth hoors the Lord in his wisdom has plonked beside us -- in the hope they might improve themselves. ;)
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2012, 03:13:58 PM
Just dislike Mayo , Camanachd , and you'll get on grand here in lovely underestimated Roscommon , the hidden heart of Ireland.
We don't expect much from life so we're seldom disappointed but we always have the consolation of knowing that we are a breed apart , a royal race , and of course totally superior to the smelly uncouth hoors the Lord in his wisdom has plonked beside us -- in the hope they might improve themselves. ;)
Specifically Blackface Mountain.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 16, 2012, 03:22:00 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on February 16, 2012, 03:13:58 PM
Just dislike Mayo , Camanachd , and you'll get on grand here in lovely underestimated Roscommon , the hidden heart of Ireland.
We don't expect much from life so we're seldom disappointed but we always have the consolation of knowing that we are a breed apart , a royal race , and of course totally superior to the smelly uncouth hoors the Lord in his wisdom has plonked beside us -- in the hope they might improve themselves. ;)
Specifically Blackface Mountain.
Whereas in Aberdeen, that's an opportunity to breed together. ;)
Quote from: AQMP on February 16, 2012, 03:12:33 PM
Don't forget Louth, another dearg agus ban county.
Noticing that "Louth" can be constructed by the addition of a single letter to "Lout" got me musing idly about how many counties' names can be similarly derived.
Meat - well, more often the two pieces of bread to some other unfortunate piece of meat.
May - but haven't since 1951.
Cava - or Smithwicks - anything but training in any case.
Longfor - even an O'Byrne Cup.
etc.
(I hadn't the heart to do Offaly. Boom-Boom.)
Cor - Blimey here come those feckers from Kerry
Clar - Oifiguil
Derr - ing Do
Rosscommo - 'ver here and leave that bloody ewe alone for once!
Only one S in Roscommon ya North British so and so ya
Quote from: Hardy on February 16, 2012, 03:27:33 PM
Quote from: AQMP on February 16, 2012, 03:12:33 PM
Don't forget Louth, another dearg agus ban county.
Noticing that "Louth" can be constructed by the addition of a single letter to "Lout" got me musing idly about how many counties' names can be similarly derived.
Meat - well, more often the two pieces of bread to some other unfortunate piece of meat.
May - but haven't since 1951.
Cava - or Smithwicks - anything but training in any case.
Longfor - even an O'Byrne Cup.
etc.
May 4 Sam.
Dow - share price has fallen.
http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/rangers/297787-live-coverage-rangers-administration-press-conference/ (http://sport.stv.tv/football/scottish-premier/rangers/297787-live-coverage-rangers-administration-press-conference/)
Live coverage
The Administrator appears quite relaxed about the what the future holds for Rangers.
Hibernian Hearts of Midlothian to challenge Glasgow Celtic!!!
Whatever team LondonCamanachd choses to support he should be alright, just don't shake hands with anybody from Tyrone.
Quote from: Main Street on February 16, 2012, 07:03:18 PM
Whatever team LondonCamanachd choses to support he should be alright, just don't shake hands with anybody from Tyrone.
Why doesn't he just support County Scotland or if he wants his team involved in the All-Ireland series, County London all the way. Sure London beat Fermanagh in the football and almost beat Mayo last year, London are a far shot from the worst team in hurling.
Quote from: Lecale2 on February 16, 2012, 05:15:06 PM
The Administrator appears quite relaxed about the what the future holds for Rangers.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKuD7XH7us0
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2012, 07:12:36 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 16, 2012, 07:03:18 PM
Whatever team LondonCamanachd choses to support he should be alright, just don't shake hands with anybody from Tyrone.
Why doesn't he just support County Scotland or if he wants his team involved in the All-Ireland series, County London all the way. Sure London beat Fermanagh in the football and almost beat Mayo last year, London are a far shot from the worst team in hurling.
without wishing to sound rude, it's because i'm already involved in gaelic sport in both Scotland and London. Just not a gaelic sport run by the gaa.
Apologies if that comes across as dismissive. Btw, i'm torn between the Connacht rivals. The Mayo mix of joy, shame and heroic failure appeals to my Scottish and Aberdonian soul, but the Roscommon attitude to sheep also appeals to the Aberdonian in me!
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 16, 2012, 09:43:36 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2012, 07:12:36 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 16, 2012, 07:03:18 PM
Whatever team LondonCamanachd choses to support he should be alright, just don't shake hands with anybody from Tyrone.
Why doesn't he just support County Scotland or if he wants his team involved in the All-Ireland series, County London all the way. Sure London beat Fermanagh in the football and almost beat Mayo last year, London are a far shot from the worst team in hurling.
without wishing to sound rude, it's because i'm already involved in gaelic sport in both Scotland and London. Just not a gaelic sport run by the gaa.
Apologies if that comes across as dismissive. Btw, i'm torn between the Connacht rivals. The Mayo mix of joy, shame and heroic failure appeals to my Scottish and Aberdonian soul, but the Roscommon attitude to sheep also appeals to the Aberdonian in me!
We have better pubs.
After all the financial turmoil and impending redundancies Ally McCoist is apparently giving serious consideration to taking up a position with Sky. This is in spite of the fact that he has never put up a Sky dish before
Whem!!
There's a whole lot more than that going on.
Quote from: muppet on February 16, 2012, 09:57:27 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 16, 2012, 09:43:36 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on February 16, 2012, 07:12:36 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 16, 2012, 07:03:18 PM
Whatever team LondonCamanachd choses to support he should be alright, just don't shake hands with anybody from Tyrone.
Why doesn't he just support County Scotland or if he wants his team involved in the All-Ireland series, County London all the way. Sure London beat Fermanagh in the football and almost beat Mayo last year, London are a far shot from the worst team in hurling.
without wishing to sound rude, it's because i'm already involved in gaelic sport in both Scotland and London. Just not a gaelic sport run by the gaa.
Apologies if that comes across as dismissive. Btw, i'm torn between the Connacht rivals. The Mayo mix of joy, shame and heroic failure appeals to my Scottish and Aberdonian soul, but the Roscommon attitude to sheep also appeals to the Aberdonian in me!
We have better pubs.
It must be noted that the Rossies don't own their own sheep, they steal them from Leitrim.
There's nothing to feed sheep with in Laythrum ( or Mayo either for that matter :P)
Rangers Dead - the wake or the ressurection?
Administrators are questioned at press conference.
Are Rangers Dead?
No, we are optimistic that they're not dead, there is a heartbeat
Okay, can you tell us if there is any blood circulating?
Not at this moment
Can you tell us where all the blood went and if there is any left?
Eh, we have no idea.
Do you know where the £9m 'held back' from PAYE is?
That's a difficult question
And what about that £24m cash, mortgaged on season tickets?
That's a very difficult question
Craig Whyte, the owner, is the preferred creditor and the main assets are Murray Park and Ibrox?
Those are matters which we have to scrutinise but first impression is the assets are held by a company which Craig Whyte has an 'interest' in
Do you have concerns about the way the club was run?
Yes
http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/loud-insistent-questions-yield-little-in-the-way-of-answers.16781748 (http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/loud-insistent-questions-yield-little-in-the-way-of-answers.16781748)
Ally McCoist, when questioned yesterday if has full confidence in the owner Craig Whyte, he answered, "ABSOLUTELY".
I wouldn't be surprised if the phrase "the money was just resting in my account" comes up over the next few weeks.
Along with "this tax debt is small, that one is far away f*cking huge"
As part of the Rangers' receivership deal, Ibrox is to be renamed the Inland Revenue Arena.
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 17, 2012, 11:36:52 AM
As part of the Rangers' receivership deal, Ibrox is to be renamed the Inland Revenue Arena.
Craig Whyte said he was inpsired by the IRA's original nickname as he legged it to Monaco: I Ran Away.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 17, 2012, 11:39:51 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 17, 2012, 11:36:52 AM
As part of the Rangers' receivership deal, Ibrox is to be renamed the Inland Revenue Arena.
Craig Whyte said he was inpsired by the IRA's original nickname as he legged it to Monaco: I Ran Away.
Unfortunately, there was nothing 'original' about 1969! :P
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 17, 2012, 12:11:20 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 17, 2012, 11:39:51 AM
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 17, 2012, 11:36:52 AM
As part of the Rangers' receivership deal, Ibrox is to be renamed the Inland Revenue Arena.
Craig Whyte said he was inpsired by the IRA's original nickname as he legged it to Monaco: I Ran Away.
Unfortunately, there was nothing 'original' about 1969! :P
Not original by 1969? Pfft, I only missed out a civil war and numerous schisms. That's pretty up-to-date for the average Brit's knowledge of C20th Ireland.
I did tell you not to shake hands with a Tyrone man
;D
Quote from: Fear ón Srath Bán on February 17, 2012, 11:36:52 AM
As part of the Rangers' receivership deal, Ibrox is to be renamed the Inland Revenue Arena.
this new name is said to be Provisional.
I'm forced to disagree.
This new name is totally Official and to be used for Continuity
From the IT today
Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell had earlier this week claimed Celtic could survive and thrive without Rangers, and a statement released yesterday on Celtic's official Twitter site read: "We are very disappointed with the First Minister's claims that Celtic 'need' Rangers and that Celtic 'can't prosper unless Rangers are there'.
"This is simply not true. In a series of interviews given just three days ago, we made it abundantly clear that Celtic has a well defined strategy and a business plan independent of the fortunes of any other club. That remains absolutely the case.
Probably a world without Rangers is more of a financial issue for the other SPL clubs. Possibly, Lawwell is also trying to ease concerns for the shareholders who have seen a 15% drop in share price since Whyte performed his magic in making £24m simply vanish
In all honesty the new name for Ibrox will probably be Stewart Milne Govan Development.
still think there something fishy about it whyte buyin the place to put it futher debt they well get the debt forefitted and he will be in some consortium that buys the c***ts if they did go out would be better chance o celtic gettin in ta english leagues
Scottish Football Association to launch independent investigation after "new information comes to light". Wonder what it is?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17079011 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17079011)
So the end of another exciting day - just to summarise:
Theres £24 million missing.
Ticketus have paid it into an account that was not Rangers.
The administrators say Whyte is helping them.
The administrators dont know there the £24 million is.
Whyte does.
Ticket us probably does.
The Administrators say the club will keep running no problem and is not at risk of Liquadation.
The club is running at a £10 million loss.
The big tax case is not even lost yet (up to £75 million)!
There is £9 million VAT to pay anyway!
Running no problem???
A]are these the most stupid administators ever?
OR
B]are these administrators just part of the Whyte plan and are getting paid very very well to look this stupid?
*Oh and just about as annoying as the clueless gimps that keep telling us we needRangers is the toothless gimps that dont actually seem to be able to ask the administrators some bloody obvious questions!
Something's rotten in the state of Primark...
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 17, 2012, 07:41:43 PM
So the end of another exciting day - just to summarise:
Theres £24 million missing.
Ticketus have paid it into an account that was not Rangers.
The administrators say Whyte is helping them.
The administrators dont know there the £24 million is.
Whyte does.
Ticket us probably does.
The Administrators say the club will keep running no problem and is not at risk of Liquadation.
The club is running at a £10 million loss.
The big tax case is not even lost yet (up to £75 million)!
There is £9 million VAT to pay anyway!
Running no problem???
Are these the most stupid administators ever?
Could be worse, they could order their supporters clubs to stop giving them money and disband.
The taxman has taken over Ibrox & decided they're gonna rename the stadium the Inland Revenue Arena...... The IRA for short.... Although It's only provisional at the moment.
Quote from: Gazzler on February 17, 2012, 10:05:34 PM
The taxman has taken over Ibrox & decided they're gonna rename the stadium the Inland Revenue Arena...... The IRA for short.... Although It's only provisional at the moment.
Read the earlier posts FFS before posting.
Quote from: Lecale2 on February 17, 2012, 10:48:17 PM
Quote from: Gazzler on February 17, 2012, 10:05:34 PM
The taxman has taken over Ibrox & decided they're gonna rename the stadium the Inland Revenue Arena...... The IRA for short.... Although It's only provisional at the moment.
Read the earlier posts FFS before posting.
Give him a break, I hadn't read all the thread. f**k that.
Quote from: trileacman on February 17, 2012, 11:34:33 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on February 17, 2012, 10:48:17 PM
Quote from: Gazzler on February 17, 2012, 10:05:34 PM
The taxman has taken over Ibrox & decided they're gonna rename the stadium the Inland Revenue Arena...... The IRA for short.... Although It's only provisional at the moment.
Read the earlier posts FFS before posting.
Give him a break, I hadn't read all the thread. f**k that.
It's a great thread. Especially the section that focuses on picking a GAA county for the Scottish boy. That bit's far more interesting than some tax dodging, soap dodging bawbags from the Southside of Glasgow.
Rangerstaxcase hits mainstream. This is a very decent summation of events to this point. Comments are worth a read as well.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/feb/17/scotland-media-rangers (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2012/feb/17/scotland-media-rangers)
QuoteMy blog shows how Scotland's media were complicit in Rangers' fall
The author of the blog that has pulled down the facade at Rangers was motivated by the failings of the Scottish press
Rangerstaxcase.com
guardian.co.uk, Friday 17 February 2012 20.00 GMT
Article history
(http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Football/Clubs/Club_Home/2012/2/17/1329508477074/A-fan-outside-Rangers-007.jpg)
A fan outside Rangers
The story of Rangers' insolvency is already becoming a fireside tale told mostly by those who were not there, says rangerstaxcase.com. Photograph: Andrew Milligan/PA
"It does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate, tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds" – Samuel Adams, 1775
It is easy to feel powerless in this world. "Why bother? What can I do?" Even as a student, I did not join protest marches. While most of my generation screamed: "Can't pay! won't pay!" about the hated poll tax, I could and I did. Raging against the machine seemed like Sisyphean futility and talk of changing the world was for poets and artists. To me, practical people just got on with it and made the best of events. Cynicism was a uniform I wore with pride. Against such a background, I make an unlikely campaigner and the last person anyone would pick to give voice to a silenced and disenfranchised community.
Yet my blog, rangerstaxcase.com, seems to have done exactly that. What started as an impulse one Sunday evening in March of last year has grown into something of a Scottish cultural phenomenon. Love it or loathe it, few would dispute that this blog has played a significant role revealing the facts and shaping the debate on a subject that has taken on such importance that the UK prime minister and Scottish first minister have belatedly jumped on the bandwagon.
This monster has grown to the point where it is now fielding daily traffic of over 100,000 views, while new arguments and ideas are fuelled by reader comments that are now coming in at a rate of about 1,500 per day. These are odd statistics for discussions characterised by accounting conventions and insolvency law. It is as if all of the cool kids in the playground suddenly want to read the swots' algebra homework.
In a world of free information, where most blogs die alone and ignored shortly after birth, the very popularity of rangerstaxcase.com carries a message about modern Scotland. It is a story of the unmet need for the straight story, uncorrupted by the sinister Triangle of Trade that renders most of what passes as news in Scotland's media outlets as worthless. It is the tale of why things went so wrong at Rangers and why the club's many fans seemed paralysed by disbelief until it was too late.
If you have not spent much time in Caledonia what follows will seem a little surreal. It seems that way because it is. Scotland is a land where nothing matters like football matters – in particular within the west-central region. For over 120 years, Glasgow's two biggest football teams have engaged in one of the world's most bitter sporting feuds. With mindless tribalism masquerading as a religious divide, stabbings, live bombs sent through the post, and even murders have been woven into the tapestry of the recent history of Scottish football. Yet I still get challenged over my penchant for anonymity? Football in Scotland is not like football elsewhere - at least not in Europe. (Latin Americans might recognise the poison brought to the surface by the poultice of football, but few other places would understand).
Yet for all of its ugliness, I love it. A large part of my "two score and change" years on this planet has been devoted to supporting my team, Celtic. Actually watching the team would be a very small part of the time expended. The obsession with your team colours many other aspects of life for those unfortunates who find themselves pulled into the vortex that goes along with supporting either of the Glasgow giants.
Football clubs from places like Manchester and Liverpool can lay claim to much more success on the field, but these cities do not get close to Glasgow in terms of intensity of interest. It is this passion that serves as the growth medium for the bacillus that infects the news business in Scotland, which in turn serves as the carrier of the disease that threatens to kill Rangers.
Selling news of any kind in Glasgow has long been a simple business: sales are driven by stories about Rangers and Celtic. If you need a circulation boost to improve advertising rates, you need more and better stories about these football teams. Good news moves newsprint. Bad news sells, too, as fans wallow in the misery of their hated enemy. However, Scotland is not evenly divided between these clubs. Celtic and Rangers may attract similar attendances to home games, but the demographic reality is that there are a great many more people in Scotland who would claim to be Rangers supporters than Celtic. Religious census figures provide a decent proxy for the numbers that sustain both clubs: in 2001, less than 18% of the population of Scotland identified as being Roman Catholic. Celtic's support base is far from exclusively Catholic, but it would be a little daft to ignore the reality of family religious origin in determining which football team a young boy or girl is most likely to follow in Scotland. Rangers' demographic surplus has determined the general editorial tone of the nation's news business for decades.
During the early 1990s when Celtic had their own brush with financial mortality, newspapers sent journalists across the globe to chase down scandal related to Celtic's imminent demise. Such was the open glee in print, it is a wonder that the English language had to import the word Schadenfreude from German. The lowland Scots dialect would surely have had several words of its own to offer, but I doubt that the acronym GIRUY would have translated as readily across the globe. Celtic's travails were good for the media business. There was no shortage of Rangers supporters willing to smirk at their impoverished foes while dreaming of European Cup triumphs to come. The arrival of Celtic's saviour from Canada, the unfashionable Fergus McCann, ended the era of amateurism in the boardroom and also planted the seeds for the great divergence in the fortunes of the clubs. Few could have imagined how much could change in just two decades.
The story of Rangers' insolvency is already becoming a fireside tale told mostly by those who were not there. Trampled down in the rush of journalists claiming that "of course, I knew all along, but I just could not say anything" are all of the derisive newspaper articles and radio call-in panellists dismissing the risks Rangers were facing. I am in no doubt: Scotland's media, sports and business desks alike, are complicit in the disaster than has befallen Rangers. They killed their golden goose.
The Triangle of Trade to which I have referred is essentially an arrangement where Rangers FC and their owner provide each journalist who is "inside the tent" with a sufficient supply of transfer "exclusives" and player trivia to ensure that the hack does not have to work hard. Any Scottish journalist wishing to have a long career learns quickly not to bite the hands that feed. The rule that "demographics dictate editorial" applied regardless of original footballing sympathies.
The last vertex of this triangle is the reader – the average football fan. Fed a diet rich in sycophantic rubbish, he lost the ability to review critically what he was reading. Super-casino developments worth £700m complete with hover-pitches were still being touted to Rangers fans even after the first news of the tax case broke. Along with "Ronaldo To Sign For Rangers" nonsense, it is little wonder that the majority of the club's fans were in a state of stupefaction in recent years. They were misled by those who ran their club. They were deceived by a media pack that had to know that the stories it peddled were false.
In the end, Rangers fans sat back for years and barely raised a word of complaint as their club was abused and misused. Many of these same fans who sat on their hands have had plenty to say about the motivations of my blog. Egged on by spokesmen for those doing Rangers the most harm, it is widely believed that HMRC are feeding me information to do damage to their club. Firstly, anyone reading the blog again would see that my sources of information probably lie outside of the government. Secondly, the blog has been the only dependable source of information about the sorry state of affairs within Ibrox. By revealing what has been happening at Ibrox, I have provided Rangers fans with an opportunity to do something about it. If I was really intent on harming their club, I would have said nothing at all. That this opportunity has been squandered is something for Rangers fans to contemplate. It is in helping expose this Bermuda-triangle-for-truth that I take most pride.
Rangerstaxcase.com has become a platform for some of the sharpest minds and most accomplished professionals to share information, debate, and form opinions based upon a rational interpretation of the facts rather than PR-firm fabrications. In all of the years when the mainstream media had a monopoly on opinion forming and agenda setting, the more sentient football fan had no outlet for his or her opinions. Blogs and other modern media, like Twitter, have democratised information distribution. Rangerstaxcase.com has gone far beyond its half-baked "I know a secret" origins to become a forum for citizen journalism. The power of the crowd‑sourced investigation initiated by anyone who is able to ignite the interest of others is a force that has the potential to move mountains in our society. All that is required is an issue about which others are passionate and feel unheard.
"Why bother? What can I do?" If it is something you care about, you can do anything you want.
http://soundcloud.com/jinkylarsson/george-galloway-haharangers (http://soundcloud.com/jinkylarsson/george-galloway-haharangers)
:D
I'd say, over these past few days, there are tens of thousands of people scattered all around the globe, who are experiencing sporadic fits of laughter throughout the day.
One can generally accept that laughter has a healing, feel good effect, on body and mind.
In these hard times, let us be grateful for the rippling positive waves of energy that have been emanating from the morass of Rangers' chickens coming home to roost.
Vlad, the Hearts owner, let it rip against the SFA
ROMANOV ATTACKS SFA OVER RANGERS PROBLEMS
Hearts will see a fraction of the £800,000 that they are owed from Rangers for the transfer of Lee Wallace with Romanov pointing the blame at the authorities for allowing the crisis at Ibrox to develop.
"The bankruptcy of Rangers shows again how insolently and arrogantly operate the Scottish football mafia," the Lithuanian claimed.
"They stole taxpayers' money, violating the rules of honest competition between the clubs. And for that were not even stripped of second place in the league table.
"And it was all happening while they desperately wanted to push Hearts into bankruptcy through the tax authorities and the league. They plotted conspiracies in our club and tried to spread panic.
"But in fact they needed all this just to distract attention from their own dubious activities."
Romanov.
Is this the owner of Hearts where the players weren't paid over Christmas?
Have to laugh at the delusional comments of a section of the Celtic fanbase, that the demise of Rangers will signal Celtic's entrance into a league in England!
Quote from: Hound on February 18, 2012, 04:20:33 PM
Have to laugh at the delusional comments of a section of the Celtic fanbase, that the demise of Rangers will signal Celtic's entrance into a league in England!
I suspect you are more bark than bite.
There's a 750+ page of discussion about the demise of Rangers on Kerrydale street, a forum which is a good representation of the Celtic fanbase.
Can you please point out the delusional section that think this will "signal Celtic's entrance into a league in England!".
Quote from: Hound on February 18, 2012, 04:20:33 PM
Have to laugh at the delusional comments of a section of the Celtic fanbase, that the demise of Rangers will signal Celtic's entrance into a league in England!
I would had thought that their fortunes are inextricably linked. Rangers may have made a complete hash of their finances, but it will not be a good thing for Celtic in the long run. It makes sense for them to try to move south but it is unlikely to be allowed.
Quote from: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 11:41:25 AM
http://soundcloud.com/jinkylarsson/george-galloway-haharangers (http://soundcloud.com/jinkylarsson/george-galloway-haharangers)
:D
Galloway still got his bigot head on.
Quote from: dillinger on February 18, 2012, 05:06:55 PM
Galloway still got his bigot head on.
Everyone's a bigot. You lads need to go and expand your vocabulary a little.
Quote from: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 05:22:44 PM
Quote from: dillinger on February 18, 2012, 05:06:55 PM
Galloway still got his bigot head on.
Everyone's a bigot. You lads need to go and expand your vocabulary a little.
What do you mean by you lads?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3_hyBbvFZI&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3_hyBbvFZI&feature=player_embedded)
Quote from: gerry on February 18, 2012, 07:05:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3_hyBbvFZI&feature=player_embedded (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3_hyBbvFZI&feature=player_embedded)
no doubt you will be forever known as a bigot Gerry, very non pc to laugh at the impovirished hun dont you know?
The Sun newspaper hacked into McCoists phone, and TOPPED IT UP WITH A TENNER!! :) :) :)
How many times are people going to post this?
Quote from: red n black on February 18, 2012, 07:33:04 PM
The Sun newspaper hacked into McCoists phone, and TOPPED IT UP WITH A TENNER!! :) :) :)
+1. It's as old as the hills. I got it sent to me as a text on Tuesday.
Quote from: dillinger on February 18, 2012, 06:20:25 PM
Quote from: Ulick on February 18, 2012, 05:22:44 PM
Quote from: dillinger on February 18, 2012, 05:06:55 PM
Galloway still got his bigot head on.
Everyone's a bigot. You lads need to go and expand your vocabulary a little.
What do you mean by you lads?
Anyone not from the East Coast, aye? Sure, that's the Scottish definition of bigot!
Quote from: Main Street on February 18, 2012, 01:19:28 PM
Vlad, the Hearts owner, let it rip against the SFA
ROMANOV ATTACKS SFA OVER RANGERS PROBLEMS
Hearts will see a fraction of the £800,000 that they are owed from Rangers for the transfer of Lee Wallace with Romanov pointing the blame at the authorities for allowing the crisis at Ibrox to develop.
"The bankruptcy of Rangers shows again how insolently and arrogantly operate the Scottish football mafia," the Lithuanian claimed.
"They stole taxpayers' money, violating the rules of honest competition between the clubs. And for that were not even stripped of second place in the league table.
"And it was all happening while they desperately wanted to push Hearts into bankruptcy through the tax authorities and the league. They plotted conspiracies in our club and tried to spread panic.
"But in fact they needed all this just to distract attention from their own dubious activities."
Two things:-
1) I hope my own club grows the balls to tell it like it is. This is not a Hearts only issue.
2) I'm an Aberdonian, I support Aberdeen. I don't like Celtic. That's broadly irrelevant, and any conspiracy can get to f*ck. That also has nothing to do with rangers' current predicament. I'm a Social-Democrat, I believe that business' should pay their taxes so that I can use healthcare free at the point of need. That also nothing to do with either celtic or rangers. Tax dodging criminals can f*cking burn, for all I care.
(http://i44.tinypic.com/3517d4j.jpg)
I'm a pure true supporter bu'. so I am bu'. Final whis'le!? 'mon ra pure subway loyal, bu'.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 18, 2012, 10:19:39 PM
I'm a pure true supporter bu'. so I am bu'. Final whis'le!? 'mon ra pure subway loyal, bu'.
mind drinking with a load of dons in the london road tavern, they spent three hours singing "we hate rangers more than you", not a hint of bother, obviously no casuals about that day.
Quote from: charlieTully on February 18, 2012, 10:29:47 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 18, 2012, 10:19:39 PM
I'm a pure true supporter bu'. so I am bu'. Final whis'le!? 'mon ra pure subway loyal, bu'.
mind drinking with a load of dons in the london road tavern, they spent three hours singing "we hate rangers more than you", not a hint of bother, obviously no casuals about that day.
Genuinely Charlie, hardcore Dandies are the greatest boys on earth, sure, we don't like celtic, but I reckon you can live with that. But by f*ck do we hate rangers!!! btw, I'm proud to be a Dandy, I will
always show my colours, casuals can gtf!
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 18, 2012, 10:33:05 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 18, 2012, 10:29:47 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 18, 2012, 10:19:39 PM
I'm a pure true supporter bu'. so I am bu'. Final whis'le!? 'mon ra pure subway loyal, bu'.
mind drinking with a load of dons in the london road tavern, they spent three hours singing "we hate rangers more than you", not a hint of bother, obviously no casuals about that day.
Genuinely Charlie, hardcore Dandies are the greatest boys on earth, sure, we don't like celtic, but I reckon you can live with that. But by f*ck do we hate rangers!!! btw, I'm proud to be a Dandy, I will always show my colours, casuals can gtf!
aye, although i think yis have a begrudging admiration for us, ;), have honestly never had any bother with any football fans in Caledonia bar the huns. saying that i have never been to the jambos away.
Quote from: charlieTully on February 18, 2012, 11:11:20 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 18, 2012, 10:33:05 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 18, 2012, 10:29:47 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on February 18, 2012, 10:19:39 PM
I'm a pure true supporter bu'. so I am bu'. Final whis'le!? 'mon ra pure subway loyal, bu'.
mind drinking with a load of dons in the london road tavern, they spent three hours singing "we hate rangers more than you", not a hint of bother, obviously no casuals about that day.
Genuinely Charlie, hardcore Dandies are the greatest boys on earth, sure, we don't like celtic, but I reckon you can live with that. But by f*ck do we hate rangers!!! btw, I'm proud to be a Dandy, I will always show my colours, casuals can gtf!
aye, although i think yis have a begrudging admiration for us, ;), have honestly never had any bother with any football fans in Caledonia bar the huns. saying that i have never been to the jambos away.
We don't, and'd feel awkward if you did for us.
That said, if you lot sang The Foggy Dew rather than the Boys of The Old Brigade, we'd probably join in! We don't share your politics, but we've an ear for music. I'm posturing here i might "hate" huns and tims, but it's only ever been a 90 minute issue for me.
Quote from: Lecale2 on February 18, 2012, 07:59:49 PM
How many times are people going to post this?
Quote from: red n black on February 18, 2012, 07:33:04 PM
The Sun newspaper hacked into McCoists phone, and TOPPED IT UP WITH A TENNER!! :) :) :)
9 in a row?
The Rangers supporters don't do themselves any favours, do they?
http://www.scotzine.com/2012/02/from-unity-and-defiance-to-bigotry-and-bile/ (http://www.scotzine.com/2012/02/from-unity-and-defiance-to-bigotry-and-bile/)
I read here that's it's not a done deal that Rangers will be found guilty in the tax case
Key witness says Rangers can still win £50m tax case
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers_administration_key_witness_says_rangers_can_still_win_50m_tax_case_1_2125385 (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers_administration_key_witness_says_rangers_can_still_win_50m_tax_case_1_2125385)
Some snips from the article
"Until a fortnight ago, it was widely reported that Rangers' chances of winning the tribunal were 50-50, now it is said they will lose," the source said. "Yet nothing can have changed in that intervening period, with the tribunal ending last month [18 January]
there are "myths" about how EBTs were administered when Sir David Murray owned Rangers, and that HMRC made "no headway" in convincing the three judges who will decide if these were operated in a manner that changed them from a legal tax avoidance loophole to a tax evasion scheme.
EBTs are believed to have been run by around 5,000 businesses in the UK, including football clubs south of the Border. They became illegal in December 2010 but, until then, firms had been able to exploit the tax laws to provide sums to employees without PAYE or National Insurance as long as these were in the form of discretionary, repayable loans
Quote from: Main Street on February 19, 2012, 02:48:09 PM
I read here that's it's not a done deal that Rangers will be found guilty in the tax case
Key witness says Rangers can still win £50m tax case
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers_administration_key_witness_says_rangers_can_still_win_50m_tax_case_1_2125385 (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers_administration_key_witness_says_rangers_can_still_win_50m_tax_case_1_2125385)
Some snips from the article
"Until a fortnight ago, it was widely reported that Rangers' chances of winning the tribunal were 50-50, now it is said they will lose," the source said. "Yet nothing can have changed in that intervening period, with the tribunal ending last month [18 January]
there are "myths" about how EBTs were administered when Sir David Murray owned Rangers, and that HMRC made "no headway" in convincing the three judges who will decide if these were operated in a manner that changed them from a legal tax avoidance loophole to a tax evasion scheme.
EBTs are believed to have been run by around 5,000 businesses in the UK, including football clubs south of the Border. They became illegal in December 2010 but, until then, firms had been able to exploit the tax laws to provide sums to employees without PAYE or National Insurance as long as these were in the form of discretionary, repayable loans
That's the nub of it MS, it would appear that HMRC have documentary evidence that the loans were contractual and non refundable. That being the case there may well be criminal charges in the offing once the case is settled. Quick summation of the Tax case here.
http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/03/28/what-is-rangers-tax-case-all-about/ (http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/03/28/what-is-rangers-tax-case-all-about/)
At yesterday's game, Celtic fans poke fun at Rangers with an HMRC sponsored shirt.
(http://www.scotsman.com/webimage/1.2126633.1329741046!image/706926385.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_595/706926385.jpg)
Quote from: Main Street on February 20, 2012, 04:18:26 PM
At yesterday's game, Celtic fans poke fun at Rangers with an HMRC sponsored shirt.
(http://www.scotsman.com/webimage/1.2126633.1329741046!image/706926385.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_595/706926385.jpg)
Does HMRC stand for Hun Mismanage Rangers Collapse?
Police say a pound coin was thrown on to the pitch at Ibrox on Saturday. They don't know if it was an attempted assault or a takeover bid.
Very good. I hadn't heard that one
http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=211521
from 4th post down, shocking stuff.
Any comment from the posts from 21 onwards???
Quote from: ludermor on February 21, 2012, 01:19:10 PM
Any comment from the posts from 21 onwards???
thankfully some have a bit of sense.
Yeah, seems to be a few sectarian bigots, who are chastised by the latecomers. Good to see Hoof Hearted there :D
It's the moderators on there that need to take that crap off.
All that Hoof Hearted character rails against, is that open expression gives the club a bad name, that those posters are internet only bigots, lacking the fortitude of conviction to confront someone face to face. In other words phoney bigots.
Giving the club a bad name :D that's a good one. That's what the club openly practiced for decades, blatant and arrogant.
We have a Hoof Hearted here as well. Not sure if it's the same lad though :D
Quote from: passedit on February 20, 2012, 08:27:28 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 19, 2012, 02:48:09 PM
I read here that's it's not a done deal that Rangers will be found guilty in the tax case
Key witness says Rangers can still win £50m tax case
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers_administration_key_witness_says_rangers_can_still_win_50m_tax_case_1_2125385 (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/rangers_administration_key_witness_says_rangers_can_still_win_50m_tax_case_1_2125385)
Some snips from the article
"Until a fortnight ago, it was widely reported that Rangers' chances of winning the tribunal were 50-50, now it is said they will lose," the source said. "Yet nothing can have changed in that intervening period, with the tribunal ending last month [18 January]
there are "myths" about how EBTs were administered when Sir David Murray owned Rangers, and that HMRC made "no headway" in convincing the three judges who will decide if these were operated in a manner that changed them from a legal tax avoidance loophole to a tax evasion scheme.
EBTs are believed to have been run by around 5,000 businesses in the UK, including football clubs south of the Border. They became illegal in December 2010 but, until then, firms had been able to exploit the tax laws to provide sums to employees without PAYE or National Insurance as long as these were in the form of discretionary, repayable loans
That's the nub of it MS, it would appear that HMRC have documentary evidence that the loans were contractual and non refundable. That being the case there may well be criminal charges in the offing once the case is settled. Quick summation of the Tax case here.
http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/03/28/what-is-rangers-tax-case-all-about/ (http://rangerstaxcase.com/2011/03/28/what-is-rangers-tax-case-all-about/)
Would agree that blog is a fantastic read. RTC has been ahead of the game for a long time. All the stuff that has recently came out in the media was available on that blog months ago.
http://www.philmacgiollabhain.ie/
Another blog that has been excellent regarding this case.
Quote from: charlieTully on February 21, 2012, 12:44:55 PM
http://forum.rangersmedia.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=211521
from 4th post down, shocking stuff.
I think you're overreacting Charlie. I mean, surely ethnic cleansing is the solution at every troubled business, right?
things are getting worse for the rangers. it is being reported today that whyte sold the 16 arsenal shares ranges owned.
these share were gifted to ranges in the 20's after rangers helped out arsenal financially and were considered to be very much a historic artifact.
he got £230,000 for them which he had lodged with a firm of stockbrokers he owned in England (not rangers accounts). that firm are now be investigated by the FSA and have had their assets frozen.
I just knew Arsenal had a sordid history ;D
Back to Whyte, he made a statement yesterday, thoroughly dissected by Tom English in the Scotsman.
http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/tom_english_sorry_whyte_wash_that_is_full_of_contradictions_1_2130718 (http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/spl/tom_english_sorry_whyte_wash_that_is_full_of_contradictions_1_2130718)
Sorry Whyte wash that is full of contradictions
a snip from the article
'From top to toe, Whyte's declaration of innocence came in at 1,507 words and in every paragraph, if not in every sentence, there are things that make your hair stand on end, things that are gob-smacking in their audacity, things that directly contradict what he has said before. In the business of the Ticketus affair he has done an about-turn that would make Sebastian Vettel's head spin, but it's worth going through this from his opening remarks, when he presents himself as a modern-day philanthropist.'
Not being au fait with Formula 1 car racing, the Seb Vettel reference took a while to sink in.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 21, 2012, 01:54:26 PM
Yeah, seems to be a few sectarian bigots, who are chastised by the latecomers. Good to see Hoof Hearted there :D
It's the moderators on there that need to take that crap off.
Chastised because someone posts that its being spread on the internet
Good point.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 22, 2012, 01:29:59 PM
Good point.
Real contrition: recognise that you've done wrong and attempting to make amends
rangers contrition: recognise you're about to get found out and try to limit the damage
btw, If I was Craig Whyte, I'd be seriously worried about my personal safety. The rangers support must have a pretty high bampot quotient, even before we take into account armed Loyalists!
'Explaining Debt To A Hun'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8x_59EjZOs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H8x_59EjZOs)
The current tax bill is £15m not the £9m they claimed! It keeps getting worse.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17146506 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17146506)
Quote from: Lecale2 on February 24, 2012, 01:21:07 PM
The current tax bill is £15m not the £9m they claimed! It keeps getting worse.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17146506 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17146506)
Don't laugh, if recent history is anything to go by you will have to bail it out while they will still get their bonuses.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 21, 2012, 02:29:47 PM
We have a Hoof Hearted here as well. Not sure if it's the same lad though :D
I've been caught out, Im a fraud ! i know f**k all about GAA ! RangerAbu :D
(Cue muppet to say he knew the 2nd sentance was true a long time ago !! )
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on February 24, 2012, 11:18:38 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 21, 2012, 02:29:47 PM
We have a Hoof Hearted here as well. Not sure if it's the same lad though :D
I've been caught out, Im a fraud ! i know f**k all about GAA ! RangerAbu :D
(Cue muppet to say he knew the 2nd sentance was true a long time ago !! )
Quotei know f**k all
This bit is true all on its own!
Quote from: muppet on February 24, 2012, 11:22:07 PM
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on February 24, 2012, 11:18:38 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 21, 2012, 02:29:47 PM
We have a Hoof Hearted here as well. Not sure if it's the same lad though :D
I've been caught out, Im a fraud ! i know f**k all about GAA ! RangerAbu :D
(Cue muppet to say he knew the 2nd sentance was true a long time ago !! )
Quotei know f**k all
This bit is true all on its own!
:D :D
Rangers ground Ibrox is to be renamed "The Inland Revenue Arena" or IRA for short. But it's only provisional."
Later than a David Weir tackle.
A pound coin was thrown onto the pitch at Ibrox on Saturday, Police are unsure if it was a missile or a takeover bid
Quote from: Main Street on February 25, 2012, 10:45:49 PM
Later that a David Weir tackle.
That has to be a strong contender for the best post of the year
What eejits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8PHkxa9O7c&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8PHkxa9O7c&feature=related)
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 04, 2012, 08:18:30 PM
What eejits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8PHkxa9O7c&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8PHkxa9O7c&feature=related)
Frick, that's brilliant!! ;D ;D
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 03, 2012, 11:59:59 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 25, 2012, 10:45:49 PM
Later that a David Weir tackle.
That has to be a strong contender for the best post of the year
Let down by the typo :)
Quote from: ziggysego on March 05, 2012, 12:24:54 AM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 04, 2012, 08:18:30 PM
What eejits
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8PHkxa9O7c&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8PHkxa9O7c&feature=related)
Frick, that's brilliant!! ;D ;D
Play just the bit that they blip and listen carefully and watch his mouth, he says "fenian bastards". The face of non-bigoted Rangers ;D
D day for alot of the staff today.
Rumours going around that Mccoist is working for free till end of the season.
I wonder will many of the players get the cull.
Cant see big earners like mcgregor and edu lasting but you never know.
What are the chances of motherwell playing champions league this year ;)
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 05, 2012, 12:27:43 AM
Quote from: Dougal Maguire on March 03, 2012, 11:59:59 AM
Quote from: Main Street on February 25, 2012, 10:45:49 PM
Later that a David Weir tackle.
That has to be a strong contender for the best post of the year
Let down by the typo :)
Rectified now, thank you. However it was more than a mere typing error, rather a sign of some degeneration between the brain and motor organs. The 'T' is a long way from the 'N' on the keyboard.
Quote from: rossie mad on March 05, 2012, 11:56:47 AM
What are the chances of motherwell playing champions league this year ;)
I think Rangers and Celtic only need to come in the top 4 to gurantee themselves one of the two Scottish places in the Champions League.
I know in England for instance if Newcastle comes 4'th and Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool comes 5'th then Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool would get the place not Newcastle, not fair I know.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 05, 2012, 12:52:56 PM
Quote from: rossie mad on March 05, 2012, 11:56:47 AM
What are the chances of motherwell playing champions league this year ;)
I think Rangers and Celtic only need to come in the top 4 to gurantee themselves one of the two Scottish places in the Champions League.
I know in England for instance if Newcastle comes 4'th and Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool comes 5'th then Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool would get the place not Newcastle, not fair I know.
Come again?
Quote from: rossie mad on March 05, 2012, 12:54:30 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 05, 2012, 12:52:56 PM
Quote from: rossie mad on March 05, 2012, 11:56:47 AM
What are the chances of motherwell playing champions league this year ;)
I think Rangers and Celtic only need to come in the top 4 to gurantee themselves one of the two Scottish places in the Champions League.
I know in England for instance if Newcastle comes 4'th and Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool comes 5'th then Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool would get the place not Newcastle, not fair I know.
Come again?
i think you may be getting confused about the time Everton pipped Liverpool to 4th, yet Liverpool won the Champions league. They were given special dispensation to defend their title as well as allowing Everton to compete. I think after that year it was agreed that the European champions would be allowed to defend their title but the country in question would lose a place.
As its highly unlikely that Arsenal and Chelsea are going to make it through to the next round and Liverpool didn't qualify its a straight fight for the first four places.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 05, 2012, 12:52:56 PM
Quote from: rossie mad on March 05, 2012, 11:56:47 AM
What are the chances of motherwell playing champions league this year ;)
I think Rangers and Celtic only need to come in the top 4 to gurantee themselves one of the two Scottish places in the Champions League.
I know in England for instance if Newcastle comes 4'th and Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool comes 5'th then Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool would get the place not Newcastle, not fair I know.
lols
(http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000jgaZoJujHi8/s/700/WV52-Rangers-v-Hearts.jpg)
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 05, 2012, 12:52:56 PM
Ik denk dat Rangers en Celtic hoeft alleen maar te komen in de top 4 tot en met Garantievergoedingen zich een van de twee Schotse plaatsen in de Champions League.
Ik weet dat in Engeland bijvoorbeeld als Newcastle komt 4'th en Arsenal, Chelsea of Liverpool komt 5e dan Arsenal, Chelsea of Liverpool zou krijgen op een niet Newcastle, niet eerlijk dat weet ik.
Nope, still doesn't make sense
Quote from: deiseach on March 05, 2012, 01:54:59 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 05, 2012, 12:52:56 PM
Ik denk dat Rangers en Celtic hoeft alleen maar te komen in de top 4 tot en met Garantievergoedingen zich een van de twee Schotse plaatsen in de Champions League.
Ik weet dat in Engeland bijvoorbeeld als Newcastle komt 4'th en Arsenal, Chelsea of Liverpool komt 5e dan Arsenal, Chelsea of Liverpool zou krijgen op een niet Newcastle, niet eerlijk dat weet ik.
Nope, still doesn't make sense
OK I know you choose to mock. In the English Preimership the 4'th place as far as I understand will be replaced by the 5'th if the 4'th has not played Champions League and the 5'th has. I see that there is a similar dotted line after 4'th place in the Scottish table and was wondering does it signify the same meaning.
third and fourth in spl go into europa league qualifying
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 05, 2012, 02:12:19 PM
OK I know you choose to mock. In the English Preimership the 4'th place as far as I understand will be replaced by the 5'th if the 4'th has not played Champions League and the 5'th has. I see that there is a similar dotted line after 4'th place in the Scottish table and was wondering does it signify the same meaning.
I really couldn't understand what you were getting at and thought it was some kind of double-bluff, but now I get it. Think about what you are saying. To be eligible to play in the Champions League you have to have played in the Champions League before. Even if that were true, which self-evidently it isn't, Newcastle United have played in the Champions League before.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 05, 2012, 02:12:19 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 05, 2012, 01:54:59 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 05, 2012, 12:52:56 PM
Ik denk dat Rangers en Celtic hoeft alleen maar te komen in de top 4 tot en met Garantievergoedingen zich een van de twee Schotse plaatsen in de Champions League.
Ik weet dat in Engeland bijvoorbeeld als Newcastle komt 4'th en Arsenal, Chelsea of Liverpool komt 5e dan Arsenal, Chelsea of Liverpool zou krijgen op een niet Newcastle, niet eerlijk dat weet ik.
Nope, still doesn't make sense
OK I know you choose to mock. In the English Preimership the 4'th place as far as I understand will be replaced by the 5'th if the 4'th has not played Champions League and the 5'th has.
That's a new one on me.
Did Newcastle not get into the CL under Keggy Keegan?
Beat me to it.
How far back do you go? Does Villa's win in the 80's qualify them if they got that far up?
Another thread he is polluting with false and inaccurate statements ;D
Quote from: deiseach on March 05, 2012, 02:19:11 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 05, 2012, 02:12:19 PM
OK I know you choose to mock. In the English Preimership the 4'th place as far as I understand will be replaced by the 5'th if the 4'th has not played Champions League and the 5'th has. I see that there is a similar dotted line after 4'th place in the Scottish table and was wondering does it signify the same meaning.
I really couldn't understand what you were getting at and thought it was some kind of double-bluff, but now I get it. Think about what you are saying. To be eligible to play in the Champions League you have to have played in the Champions League before. Even if that were true, which self-evidently it isn't, Newcastle United have played in the Champions League before.
I trust what you say is correct (it may be based on a UEFA points rating in Champions Leage, I may have explained it wrong). I was told this by an Englishlad who is a huge Liverpool fan over here and tends to know his stuff. I am more a GAA man myself so if you lads reckon I am wrong I believe you. Does anyone know what the dotted lines around 5'th place stand for if I am incorrect, or is that jst for Europa qualification.
Rossie Mad, it may be that simple alright, thanks.
That's a great rule out of Mayohead. You can only play in the CL if you've played in the CL.
Though maybe they should take it one step further - You can only play in it if you've won it. So just the Mancs, Liverpool, Villa and Forest in it every year!
Quote from: Hound on March 05, 2012, 02:31:18 PM
That's a great rule out of Mayohead. You can only play in the CL if you've played in the CL.
Though maybe they should take it one step further - You can only play in it if you've won it. So just the Mancs, Liverpool, Villa and Forest in it every year!
No that is not what I was saying, I was told for instance if a team got 1st, 2nd or 3rd (in England) they would qualify no matter if they had played before or how well they did in a previous Champions League.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 05, 2012, 02:33:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 05, 2012, 02:31:18 PM
That's a great rule out of Mayohead. You can only play in the CL if you've played in the CL.
Though maybe they should take it one step further - You can only play in it if you've won it. So just the Mancs, Liverpool, Villa and Forest in it every year!
No that is not what I was saying, I was told for instance if a team got 1st, 2nd or 3rd (in England) they would qualify no matter if they had played before or how well they did in a previous Champions League.
Well either way its nonsense unfortunately.
The only way a 4th place team doesnt make it is if a lower placed team wins the Champions League. (or if they don't get a UEFA licence for financial or lack of facilities reasons)
Quote from: Hound on March 05, 2012, 02:40:28 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 05, 2012, 02:33:07 PM
Quote from: Hound on March 05, 2012, 02:31:18 PM
That's a great rule out of Mayohead. You can only play in the CL if you've played in the CL.
Though maybe they should take it one step further - You can only play in it if you've won it. So just the Mancs, Liverpool, Villa and Forest in it every year!
No that is not what I was saying, I was told for instance if a team got 1st, 2nd or 3rd (in England) they would qualify no matter if they had played before or how well they did in a previous Champions League.
Well either way its nonsense unfortunately.
The only way a 4th place team doesnt make it is if a lower placed team wins the Champions League. (or if they don't get a UEFA licence for financial or lack of facilities reasons)
Grand, soccer is only a passing interest for me, so I will take your greater knowledge on this subject as being correct.
The Old Firm's rather amusing habit of getting papped out of Europe before the schools go back mean that the SPL has significantly less Champions League places than the EPL, hence only the top two go into the CL, and not the top 4.
Except that if rangers don't publish their accounts by the end of the financial year (less than four weeks away now), they will be denied a licence to compete in Europe, and the European places are shuffled according ly. So if the SPL finishes like this:-
celtic
Motherwell
rangers
Hearts
Dundee Utd
celtic and Motherwell get into the CL, Hearts and DU into the Europa League.
And either the cup winners (or losing finalists, if the winner has already qualified through the leauge) will also go into the Europa League.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 05, 2012, 02:46:32 PM
The Old Firm's rather amusing habit of getting papped out of Europe before the schools go back mean that the SPL has significantly less Champions League places than the EPL.
hopefully the dons will do a better job next time they win the spl ;)
Quote from: charlieTully on March 05, 2012, 02:50:33 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 05, 2012, 02:46:32 PM
The Old Firm's rather amusing habit of getting papped out of Europe before the schools go back mean that the SPL has significantly less Champions League places than the EPL.
hopefully the dons will do a better job next time they win the spl ;)
If I keep my fingers crossed waiting for that, I'll get arthiritis. Still, at least for once, relegation
isn't a worry...
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 05, 2012, 02:46:32 PM
The Old Firm's rather amusing habit of getting papped out of Europe before the schools go back mean that the SPL has significantly less Champions League places than the EPL, hence only the top two go into the CL, and not the top 4.
After the success of the documentary about Liverpool's victory in the 2005 Champions League called
One Night in May, Everton decided to produce a similar tribute to their performance the following season. It was called
Two Nights in August
Quote from: deiseach on March 05, 2012, 03:04:32 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 05, 2012, 02:46:32 PM
The Old Firm's rather amusing habit of getting papped out of Europe before the schools go back mean that the SPL has significantly less Champions League places than the EPL, hence only the top two go into the CL, and not the top 4.
After the success of the documentary about Liverpool's victory in the 2005 Champions League called One Night in May, Everton decided to produce a similar tribute to their performance the following season. It was called Two Nights in August
Big Dunc was robbed by thon baldy headed Italian referee that night to take Villareal on the away goal.
Quote from: johnneycool on March 05, 2012, 03:09:21 PM
Big Dunc was robbed by thon baldy headed Italian referee that night to take Villareal on the away goal.
(http://cdn.bikechatforums.com/files/worlds-smallest-violin_190.jpg)
Quote from: deiseach on March 05, 2012, 03:04:32 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 05, 2012, 02:46:32 PM
The Old Firm's rather amusing habit of getting papped out of Europe before the schools go back mean that the SPL has significantly less Champions League places than the EPL, hence only the top two go into the CL, and not the top 4.
After the success of the documentary about Liverpool's victory in the 2005 Champions League called One Night in May, Everton decided to produce a similar tribute to their performance the following season. It was called Two Nights in August
now that joke definitly is later than a davy weir tackle. did we dust off a 5year old joke book?
Quote from: SHEEDY on March 05, 2012, 06:33:59 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 05, 2012, 03:04:32 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 05, 2012, 02:46:32 PM
The Old Firm's rather amusing habit of getting papped out of Europe before the schools go back mean that the SPL has significantly less Champions League places than the EPL, hence only the top two go into the CL, and not the top 4.
After the success of the documentary about Liverpool's victory in the 2005 Champions League called One Night in May, Everton decided to produce a similar tribute to their performance the following season. It was called Two Nights in August
now that joke definitly is later than a davy weir tackle. did we dust off a 5year old joke book?
Or a 5 year olds?
Some good news for the cash strapped SPL clubs owed money by RFC, is that football debts have a priority and will be paid first and foremost. That development should see Dundee utd and Dunfermline get the money they're owed for ticket sales.
It may be premature to get too excited about the SPL investigation into illegal payments by RFC to their players since 1989, which if proven (according to the Scotsman), "the potential sanctions which could be imposed include stripping the club of the seven titles they have won since the SPL was formed in 1998."
The rotting carcass of RFC is now under attack from all sides, the tax authorities, the SPl and the police.
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2012, 11:42:16 AM
Some good news for the cash strapped SPL clubs owed money by RFC, is that football debts have a priority and will be paid first and foremost. That development should see Dundee utd and Dunfermline get the money they're owed for ticket sales.
This only applies in England.
Quote from: Lecale2 on March 06, 2012, 12:38:57 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2012, 11:42:16 AM
Some good news for the cash strapped SPL clubs owed money by RFC, is that football debts have a priority and will be paid first and foremost. That development should see Dundee utd and Dunfermline get the money they're owed for ticket sales.
This only applies in England.
Correct.
But post liquidation rangers may face a vote to get back into the SPL. Paying off these debts might influence some SPL chairmen.
Rangers are in administraton not liquidation, therefore the administrators can make certain decisions as to the running of the club (huge rattling cough) as a going concern. As they are still a part of the EPL which the SFA administers, they are obliged to follow the rules and is there not a rule which says that debts to other clubs must be cleared first?
from the daily record
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/03/06/spl-chief-neil-doncaster-insists-rangers-won-t-receive-any-special-treatment-in-probe-into-ibrox-crisis-86908-23776758/ (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/football/spl/rangers/2012/03/06/spl-chief-neil-doncaster-insists-rangers-won-t-receive-any-special-treatment-in-probe-into-ibrox-crisis-86908-23776758/)
The SPL Board was spared a disciplinary hearing on Rangers' conduct yesterday when the club's administrators paid Dunfermline in full for ticket money that had been withheld following last month's match at East End Park.
Doncaster said: "A disciplinary hearing was scheduled to take place immediately after our Financial Fair Play discussion.
"There were 18 different sanctions we could have imposed on Rangers if the ticket money hadn't been paid, ranging all the way from an official warning to expulsion from the league. There are clear rules about the payment of gate receipts to fellow clubs in the SPL."
Even if Rangers could have avoided paying Dunfermline, it would have been folly to do so. Imagine trying to get their vote should Rangers 2012 Ltd (of whatever) have been in the position of having to reapply to the SPL having bilked Dunfermline for what is a lot of money to them
Possibly under the rules they could have delayed the payments due, but not for long and certainly they could not have avoided those payments.
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2012, 01:56:27 PM
Rangers are in administraton not liquidation, therefore the administrators can make certain decisions as to the running of the club (huge rattling cough) as a going concern. As they are still a part of the EPL which the SFA administers, they are obliged to follow the rules and is there not a rule which says that debts to other clubs must be cleared first?
That rule only applies to football governed by the English FA, AFAIK it's not a UEFA restriction, and it's not a scheme that's been adopted by any of the four governing bodies of Scottish football (yep, a nation of only 5 million people, has four national football associations).
I think the disciplinary hearing would've been for late payment i.e. reneging on a contract. The "football first" priority of debt in England, I think, refers to CVAs.
rangers are under no obligation to pay off other clubs, I was just suggesting a reason why they might suddenly be keen to do so.
EDIT: TL;DR? Basically what the two posters above me have said...
the exodus begins:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17221172
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 06, 2012, 02:23:39 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 06, 2012, 01:56:27 PM
Rangers are in administraton not liquidation, therefore the administrators can make certain decisions as to the running of the club (huge rattling cough) as a going concern. As they are still a part of the EPL which the SFA administers, they are obliged to follow the rules and is there not a rule which says that debts to other clubs must be cleared first?
That rule only applies to football governed by the English FA, AFAIK it's not a UEFA restriction, and it's not a scheme that's been adopted by any of the four governing bodies of Scottish football (yep, a nation of only 5 million people, has four national football associations).
I think the disciplinary hearing would've been for late payment i.e. reneging on a contract. The "football first" priority of debt in England, I think, refers to CVAs.
rangers are under no obligation to pay off other clubs, I was just suggesting a reason why they might suddenly be keen to do so.
EDIT: TL;DR? Basically what the two posters above me have said...
Failure to pay would have meant they would have been subject to disciplinary action under the current rules by the SPL.
The disciplinary board was all set to meet to discuss the very matter but Rangers came to a last minute agreement with the 2 clubs in question.
That suggests to me that there is an obligation for Rangers to pay the debts and if they wanted to continue to be a part of the SPL, they had to pay.
Whereas a club can be tardy with their own players' wages
Doncaster said: "At the moment the SPL needs to wait until we have received a complaint from players who have gone unpaid. Late payment is not a breach of SPL rules as things stand but that could change.All afaiaa, of course.
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 06, 2012, 02:33:12 PM
the exodus begins:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17221172
Does that mean Rangers won't get a transfer fee for these lads?
Quote from: johnneycool on March 06, 2012, 03:44:50 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 06, 2012, 02:33:12 PM
the exodus begins:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17221172
Does that mean Rangers won't get a transfer fee for these lads?
Over here another name for Voluntary Redundancy is Voluntary Severance. If, as it sounds, the redundancy is a full and final settlement then there could be no fee.
Quote from: muppet on March 06, 2012, 07:19:02 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 06, 2012, 03:44:50 PM
Quote from: omagh_gael on March 06, 2012, 02:33:12 PM
the exodus begins:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17221172
Does that mean Rangers won't get a transfer fee for these lads?
Over here another name for Voluntary Redundancy is Voluntary Severance. If, as it sounds, the redundancy is a full and final settlement then there could be no fee.
Redundancy is, as the Irish name suggest, a severance of links to the previous company. rangers have no contract with these players anymore, and therefore no entitlement to a transfer fee.
The players are unemployed.
Would they then not be better paying these lads till the end of the season and then sell them?
That way they'd at least get some return on transfer fees, no?
Quote from: johnneycool on March 07, 2012, 09:01:07 AM
Would they then not be better paying these lads till the end of the season and then sell them?
That way they'd at least get some return on transfer fees, no?
Cash flow, I suppose. No one is going to extend them a line of credit based on selling players into a market where everyone knows they need to get rid of players.
I thought the players were being a selfish bunch for fighting over pay cuts. But 75% (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/mar/06/rangers-top-earners-pay-cut)! That's rough.
Celtic supporters still enjoying themselves:
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/03/07/rangers-in-crisis-as-administrators-wield-axe-owner-craig-whyte-still-claims-to-be-ibrox-club-s-saviour-86908-23778009/ (http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/2012/03/07/rangers-in-crisis-as-administrators-wield-axe-owner-craig-whyte-still-claims-to-be-ibrox-club-s-saviour-86908-23778009/)
More on the Celtic 'takeover' of Rangers - Thomas J Clarke (III) is going to put his name in the Proclamation of the new Rangers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzsHH9ftaIo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzsHH9ftaIo)
Quote from: deiseach on March 07, 2012, 09:11:25 AM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 07, 2012, 09:01:07 AM
Would they then not be better paying these lads till the end of the season and then sell them?
That way they'd at least get some return on transfer fees, no?
Cash flow, I suppose. No one is going to extend them a line of credit based on selling players into a market where everyone knows they need to get rid of players.
I thought the players were being a selfish bunch for fighting over pay cuts. But 75% (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/mar/06/rangers-top-earners-pay-cut)! That's rough.
Davis and McGregor on £28k a week is farcical, some £1.5m p/a.
I doubt if Kayal is on more than £12k and Forster less than £10k
Both those Ranger's players taking a pay cut of 75% will merely bring them down to salary level that a comparable player would get at Celtic. And considering that they are probably getting '
clauses inserted in their contracts which offer a free transfer or one at a reasonable fee when the campaign ends', I doubt they will suffer very much.
Quote from: johnneycool on March 07, 2012, 09:01:07 AM
Would they then not be better paying these lads till the end of the season and then sell them?
That way they'd at least get some return on transfer fees, no?
Under mercantile law, "they" can't do anything. The independent administrators are in charge. Supposedly, their job is to secure maximum return for the creditors, for as little risk as possible.
If they're gambling on future transfer fees, they're not doing their job correctly.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 07, 2012, 12:51:02 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 07, 2012, 09:01:07 AM
Would they then not be better paying these lads till the end of the season and then sell them?
That way they'd at least get some return on transfer fees, no?
Under mercantile law, "they" can't do anything. The independent administrators are in charge. Supposedly, their job is to secure maximum return for the creditors, for as little risk as possible.
If they're gambling on future transfer fees, they're not doing their job correctly.
The administrators were the 'they' I was talking about. Whyte and co have no say now.
i know sweet FA about who would be worth what in the Rangers squad, but would it not be worth paying a lad this 10-20K per week for the next 3 months or so in the hope of getting at least 1Million for him come end of May?
Quote from: johnneycool on March 07, 2012, 01:34:16 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 07, 2012, 12:51:02 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 07, 2012, 09:01:07 AM
Would they then not be better paying these lads till the end of the season and then sell them?
That way they'd at least get some return on transfer fees, no?
Under mercantile law, "they" can't do anything. The independent administrators are in charge. Supposedly, their job is to secure maximum return for the creditors, for as little risk as possible.
If they're gambling on future transfer fees, they're not doing their job correctly.
The administrators were the 'they' I was talking about. Whyte and co have no say now.
i know sweet FA about who would be worth what in the Rangers squad, but would it not be worth paying a lad this 10-20K per week for the next 3 months or so in the hope of getting at least 1Million for him come end of May?
Would the palyers not have some sort of clause to allow them to be released? it may be in the players interest to become 'redundant' and then to look for a better signing on bonus when the new club doesn't have to pay a transfer fee.
Quote from: Ulick on March 07, 2012, 10:05:22 AM
More on the Celtic 'takeover' of Rangers - Thomas J Clarke (III) is going to put his name in the Proclamation of the new Rangers:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzsHH9ftaIo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IzsHH9ftaIo)
They'll name a railway station after him in 50 years
You're not a true fenian/rebel legend until you have a railway station named after you.
However, Tom Clarke already has that honour, though not a station that reflects his stature.
Quote from: Main Street on March 07, 2012, 02:32:55 PM
However, Tom Clarke already has that honour, though not a station that reflects his stature.
Could be worse. Look at poor Thomas MacDonagh
Good grief. To quote Blur, yes it really really could happen . . .
The futures bright in the tattoo removal business.
Quote from: johnneycool on March 07, 2012, 01:34:16 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 07, 2012, 12:51:02 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 07, 2012, 09:01:07 AM
Would they then not be better paying these lads till the end of the season and then sell them?
That way they'd at least get some return on transfer fees, no?
Under mercantile law, "they" can't do anything. The independent administrators are in charge. Supposedly, their job is to secure maximum return for the creditors, for as little risk as possible.
If they're gambling on future transfer fees, they're not doing their job correctly.
The administrators were the 'they' I was talking about. Whyte and co have no say now.
i know sweet FA about who would be worth what in the Rangers squad, but would it not be worth paying a lad this 10-20K per week for the next 3 months or so in the hope of getting at least 1Million for him come end of May?
Administrators aren't supposed to act "in the hope". They've got to strike a balance between cutting costs now, and keeping saleable assets until such time as the assets can be liquidated i.e. the next transfer window, but as rangers are currently losing £1,000,000 a month, cutting wages now is the better option than building up an extra £4,000,000 debt and hoping that player transfers will recoup that and some of the existing.
In other words, they're f*cked! :D
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 07, 2012, 06:55:17 PM
This is great ;D. Must look out my dancing shoes, I think a little jig on the grave of the odious Glasgow Rangers might not be too far away.
Join the queue! It currently stretches from Govan up the back of Elgin somewhere...
;D ;D ;D
No point looking for the end of one of the evil Glasgow Twins while the other one remains. >:(
It's 99% certain that Rangers will be liquidated at this stage. The money simply isn't there, and that's even before you consider the results of the tax case. The next question is what becomes of the new entity that will rise out of the ashes. I've been scornful of Celtic fans and their conspiracy theories regarding Rangers over the years, but the extent to which the meeja have rowed in behind the idea that a piece of Scotland will die if Rangers are not saved is a real eye-opener. These, after all, are the same people who were merciless when Celtic were on the brink back in the early 90's. The upcoming battle between them and the revolting masses who are luxuriating in the demise of Rangers is going to be fascinating.
I can feel Gregory Campbell's pain on the Nolan show now :D :D :D
"You can take your Real Madrids, Barcelonas, Man United, whoever, none of them ever had a support like the Rangers" - Gregory Campbell. :o ;D
"Time for unionist unity on this matter" - keep politics out of sport? ::)
Quote from: Ulick on March 08, 2012, 09:43:05 AM
"Time for unionist unity on this matter" - keep politics out of sport? ::)
Please tell me you are making this shit up
Quote from: deiseach on March 08, 2012, 09:51:02 AM
Quote from: Ulick on March 08, 2012, 09:43:05 AM
"Time for unionist unity on this matter" - keep politics out of sport? ::)
Please tell me you are making this shit up
No, no ,no. He shouldn't be discouraged. If he wants to join Rangers and Unionism at the hip he should be encouraged.
It is a match made in heaven.
Bonnie & Clyde.
Fianna Fáil and Anglo.
Rangers and Unionism.
Just agree politely and order loads of popcorn.
Lawyer for Rangers administrators tells STV issue needs to be settled before new season or club could be relegated.
Quote from: Ulick on March 08, 2012, 09:42:03 AM
"You can take your Real Madrids, Barcelonas, Man United, whoever, none of them ever had a support like the Rangers" - Gregory Campbell. :o ;D
He is right.
The people of Manchester would be horrified to think they had a support like rangers.
Quote from: deiseach on March 08, 2012, 08:59:39 AM
It's 99% certain that Rangers will be liquidated at this stage. The money simply isn't there, and that's even before you consider the results of the tax case. The next question is what becomes of the new entity that will rise out of the ashes. I've been scornful of Celtic fans and their conspiracy theories regarding Rangers over the years, but the extent to which the meeja have rowed in behind the idea that a piece of Scotland will die if Rangers are not saved is a real eye-opener. These, after all, are the same people who were merciless when Celtic were on the brink back in the early 90's. The upcoming battle between them and the revolting masses who are luxuriating in the demise of Rangers is going to be fascinating.
Is it really that surprising? Rangers is as Scottish as religious bigotry and heart attacks.
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2012, 01:29:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 08, 2012, 08:59:39 AM
It's 99% certain that Rangers will be liquidated at this stage. The money simply isn't there, and that's even before you consider the results of the tax case. The next question is what becomes of the new entity that will rise out of the ashes. I've been scornful of Celtic fans and their conspiracy theories regarding Rangers over the years, but the extent to which the meeja have rowed in behind the idea that a piece of Scotland will die if Rangers are not saved is a real eye-opener. These, after all, are the same people who were merciless when Celtic were on the brink back in the early 90's. The upcoming battle between them and the revolting masses who are luxuriating in the demise of Rangers is going to be fascinating.
Is it really that surprising? Rangers is as Scottish as religious bigotry and heart attacks.
Come again?
In what way is religious bigotry typically scottish?
How does this burial ceremony go?
Rangers atm, can be sold to a new owner but any claim the tax authorities and other creditors have on Rangers fc, will still carry through to the new owner/s?
Rangers is not sold in time, can't carry on, the creditors then become the owners of all Rangers assets, including Ibrox, training facilities, lifetime memberships with the freemasons etc, and are free to do what they want with the assets?
In that scenario a new Rangers fc could be formed and purchase Ibrox etc, from the creditors?
Or how about a simple cremation?
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 08, 2012, 02:52:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2012, 01:29:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 08, 2012, 08:59:39 AM
It's 99% certain that Rangers will be liquidated at this stage. The money simply isn't there, and that's even before you consider the results of the tax case. The next question is what becomes of the new entity that will rise out of the ashes. I've been scornful of Celtic fans and their conspiracy theories regarding Rangers over the years, but the extent to which the meeja have rowed in behind the idea that a piece of Scotland will die if Rangers are not saved is a real eye-opener. These, after all, are the same people who were merciless when Celtic were on the brink back in the early 90's. The upcoming battle between them and the revolting masses who are luxuriating in the demise of Rangers is going to be fascinating.
Is it really that surprising? Rangers is as Scottish as religious bigotry and heart attacks.
Come again?
In what way is religious bigotry typically scottish?
It kinda is, most of the religious bigotry in Ireland seems to have been imported from Scotland (rather than the far more recent reverse). Even in the United States of America alot of the bible belt religious fruitcakes are of Scots or Scotch-Irish heritage. Came across one or two relgiously intollerent Aussies and they were of Scottish stock.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 07, 2012, 06:48:29 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 07, 2012, 01:34:16 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 07, 2012, 12:51:02 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 07, 2012, 09:01:07 AM
Would they then not be better paying these lads till the end of the season and then sell them?
That way they'd at least get some return on transfer fees, no?
Under mercantile law, "they" can't do anything. The independent administrators are in charge. Supposedly, their job is to secure maximum return for the creditors, for as little risk as possible.
If they're gambling on future transfer fees, they're not doing their job correctly.
The administrators were the 'they' I was talking about. Whyte and co have no say now.
i know sweet FA about who would be worth what in the Rangers squad, but would it not be worth paying a lad this 10-20K per week for the next 3 months or so in the hope of getting at least 1Million for him come end of May?
Administrators aren't supposed to act "in the hope". They've got to strike a balance between cutting costs now, and keeping saleable assets until such time as the assets can be liquidated i.e. the next transfer window, but as rangers are currently losing £1,000,000 a month, cutting wages now is the better option than building up an extra £4,000,000 debt and hoping that player transfers will recoup that and some of the existing.
In other words, they're f*cked! :D
Looks like the Administrators are looking to hold onto some of their more valuable assets until they can liquidise them into cold hard cash!!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/mar/08/rangers-players-redundant-folly?newsfeed=true (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/mar/08/rangers-players-redundant-folly?newsfeed=true)
Quote from: johnneycool on March 08, 2012, 03:48:23 PM
Looks like the Administrators are looking to hold onto some of their more valuable assets until they can liquidise them into cold hard cash!!
http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/mar/08/rangers-players-redundant-folly?newsfeed=true (http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2012/mar/08/rangers-players-redundant-folly?newsfeed=true)
The administrators have a number of options open to them. Sadly, sticking the b*stards in a blender isn't one of them... :(
Pay no heed to that Mayo windbag ..you ..you.. you religious bigots ;D
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 08, 2012, 02:52:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2012, 01:29:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 08, 2012, 08:59:39 AM
It's 99% certain that Rangers will be liquidated at this stage. The money simply isn't there, and that's even before you consider the results of the tax case. The next question is what becomes of the new entity that will rise out of the ashes. I've been scornful of Celtic fans and their conspiracy theories regarding Rangers over the years, but the extent to which the meeja have rowed in behind the idea that a piece of Scotland will die if Rangers are not saved is a real eye-opener. These, after all, are the same people who were merciless when Celtic were on the brink back in the early 90's. The upcoming battle between them and the revolting masses who are luxuriating in the demise of Rangers is going to be fascinating.
Is it really that surprising? Rangers is as Scottish as religious bigotry and heart attacks.
Come again?
In what way is religious bigotry typically scottish?
In the sense that religion still marks people out in Scotland. The whole celtic/rangers thing and the orange order nonsense. Even the celtic conspiracy theories that I only heard of today. What is the point?
It's all way past its sell by date. Nobody gives a sh*t about religion in Germany or Switzerland.
It's not as bad in Scotland as in Norn Irn but it's still more important than in Germany or even the 26 counties.
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2012, 04:19:17 PM
In the sense that religion still marks people out in Scotland. The whole celtic/rangers thing and the orange order nonsense. Even the celtic conspiracy theories that I only heard of today. What is the point?
It's all way past its sell by date. Nobody gives a sh*t about religion in Germany or Switzerland.
It's not as bad in Scotland as in Norn Irn but it's still more important than in Germany or even the 26 counties.
Maybe if the people of eastern Germany had to co-exist with millions of Poles then religion might matter. But post-war ethnic cleansing sorted that out.
Quote from: Main Street on March 08, 2012, 04:03:48 PM
Pay no heed to that Mayo windbag ..you ..you.. you religious bigots ;D
Let's not forgot that the Scots came from Ireland in the first place. As such you lot are actually the root of religious bigotry all over the world. So - right back at you ;D
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 08, 2012, 03:59:17 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 08, 2012, 03:00:47 PM
It kinda is, most of the religious bigotry in Ireland seems to have been imported from Scotland (rather than the far more recent reverse). Even in the United States of America alot of the bible belt religious fruitcakes are of Scots or Scotch-Irish heritage. Came across one or two relgiously intollerent Aussies and they were of Scottish stock.
So Scotland is to blame for religious bigotry in Ireland, America and Australia? I believe the Bush family claims some kind of Scottish heritage too so you can pin the current problems in Iraq and Afghanistan on us too. Must be plenty more strife around the world that the Scots are to blame for.
Yaass!! Get it up ye Elders of Zion - we run the world now!
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2012, 04:19:17 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 08, 2012, 02:52:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2012, 01:29:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 08, 2012, 08:59:39 AM
It's 99% certain that Rangers will be liquidated at this stage. The money simply isn't there, and that's even before you consider the results of the tax case. The next question is what becomes of the new entity that will rise out of the ashes. I've been scornful of Celtic fans and their conspiracy theories regarding Rangers over the years, but the extent to which the meeja have rowed in behind the idea that a piece of Scotland will die if Rangers are not saved is a real eye-opener. These, after all, are the same people who were merciless when Celtic were on the brink back in the early 90's. The upcoming battle between them and the revolting masses who are luxuriating in the demise of Rangers is going to be fascinating.
Is it really that surprising? Rangers is as Scottish as religious bigotry and heart attacks.
Come again?
In what way is religious bigotry typically scottish?
In the sense that religion still marks people out in Scotland. The whole celtic/rangers thing and the orange order nonsense. Even the celtic conspiracy theories that I only heard of today. What is the point?
Search me, but your sentence essentially reads "The whole pretendy irish/pretendy british thing and the irish organisation formed to combat the Society of United Irishmen nonsense". Its a problem isolated to parts of West Central Scotland - those that suffered/benefitted from massive Irish immigration. It simply does not exist in Edinburgh, Dundee, Aberdeen, the Borders or the Highlands.
QuoteIt's all way past its sell by date. Nobody gives a sh*t about religion in Germany or Switzerland.
It's not as bad in Scotland as in Norn Irn but it's still more important than in Germany or even the 26 counties.
I don't know about Switzerland, but the Bundesrepublik is a great example of a tolerant modern european state. Was it worth what their society went through to get there? Who knows, it's too early to say...
The RoI is a very religiously homogeneous place, bigots need an "other" to hate. There's even less anti-Protestant bigotry in Poland, because there's even less protestants.
You have to give a bit of leeway to Seafold. Anybody who has only heard of the Celtic Conspiracies for the first time today, has a lot of waking up to do and it just isn't feasible to do that in one day
Search me, but your sentence essentially reads "The whole pretendy irish/pretendy british thing and the irish organisation formed to combat the Society of United Irishmen nonsense". Its a problem isolated to parts of West Central Scotland - those that suffered/benefitted from massive Irish immigration. It simply does not exist in Edinburgh, Dundee, Aberdeen, the Borders or the Highlands.
You ever been to a Hearts vs Celtic match? Naked sectarianism on a par with anything the Old Firm can serve up.
No I haven't.
Although my earlier statement's probably overstating it over a bit, as there's a NF element to the jam tarts support so it doesn't surprise.
Hibs, Aberdeen and Dundee thugs are most definitely equal opportunities c*nts tho'.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 08, 2012, 08:07:36 PM
No I haven't.
Although my earlier statement's probably overstating it over a bit, as there's a NF element to the jam tarts support so it doesn't surprise.
Hibs, Aberdeen and Dundee thugs are most definitely equal opportunities c*nts tho'.
It wasn't just the Hearts fans who were the problem. Also, not convinced that there is not a sectarian element to Hibbees support.
Quote from: michaelg on March 08, 2012, 08:18:26 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 08, 2012, 08:07:36 PM
No I haven't.
Although my earlier statement's probably overstating it over a bit, as there's a NF element to the jam tarts support so it doesn't surprise.
Hibs, Aberdeen and Dundee thugs are most definitely equal opportunities c*nts tho'.
It wasn't just the Hearts fans who were the problem. Also, not convinced that there is not a sectarian element to Hibbees support.
Of course not - but the other lot are from West Central Scotland, which I'd already said was the heartland of the problem.
Hibs have had their problems with violence, but like Aberdeen and the two Dundee clubs, its been the football casuals rather than Grand Theft Ulster. If anything, Hibees hate celtic more than they hate rangers, as celtic bribed the Hibs squad to switch teams back in the 1890s.
1890 ;D
The rest of the Scottish fans are just hurting, jealous to the point of lunatic madness of the quality and successes of the fenian club, the impeccable record of their travelling fans wherever they travel around Europe and the praise heaped upon the Celtic Park atmosphere by a lengthy list of the who's who in European football.
Quote from: Main Street on March 08, 2012, 08:57:37 PM
1890 ;D
The rest of the Scottish fans are just hurting, jealous to the point of lunatic madness of the quality and successes of the fenian club, the impeccable record of their travelling fans wherever they travel around Europe and the praise heaped upon the Celtic Park atmosphere by a lengthy list of the who's who in European football.
Fenian club? I'll stick with a Football Club...
Fair enough, but the Irish connection does grate.
I'm satisfied to have to your agreement on the rest ;D
Quote from: Main Street on March 08, 2012, 09:08:20 PM
Fair enough, but the Irish connection does grate.
I'm satisfied to have to your agreement on the rest ;D
Sort of. There are lots of football teams in Ireland, why do so many Irishmen follow a Scottish one?
I also find people like Phil Mac Giolla Bhian very strange.
Nor are celtic the only Scottish team to be lauded for their supporters abroad.
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/uefa-cup-stimmungsvolle-schafzuechter-1.261923 (http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/uefa-cup-stimmungsvolle-schafzuechter-1.261923)
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 08, 2012, 09:51:43 AM
There will be an impact on Celtic if Rangers are liquidated and if the new club doesn't get straight into the SPL. They are called the Old Firm for a reason. The SPL itself is run by the two clubs with the 11-1 voting system giving them a veto over the rest. Take Rangers out and the rest would be able to out vote Celtic on pushing through reforms. Would all depend on the rest having the balls to do it.
Well perhaps the rest do have the balls and Celtic are about to be sidelined ;D ;D; http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17304341
As for the other points raised I agree that Hearts do have a small but vocal sectarian element in their crowd. The Hearts - Celtic match when Lennon was attacked was in the opinion of many one of the most unpleasant atmospheres in Scottish football for a long time. From both sets of fans. The suggestion that Hibs might have some kind of sectarian issue is way out of line. The background of the Edinburgh derby is Leith v Edinburgh rather than any kind of religious issue. I would guess that of the Hibs support there are more Protestants than Catholics (very few of whom probably even go to church ;D). It's just not an issue.
London Camanachd was correct in his reponse to seafoid, who is guilty of overstating the extent of sectarianism in Scotland. Yes there is a problem (perpetuated through two football clubs) but it is pretty much limited to small shithole towns in west central lowland Scotland and in parts of Glasgow, and is manifested mainly at football matches rather than in everyday life. seafoid mentioned the Orange Order as being one of the reasons Scotland has a sectarian problem - yet they are a tiny minority lunatic fringe movement here with no credibility or influence.
Quote from: Main Street on March 08, 2012, 08:57:37 PM
1890 ;D
The rest of the Scottish fans are just hurting, jealous to the point of lunatic madness of the quality and successes of the fenian club, the impeccable record of their travelling fans wherever they travel around Europe and the praise heaped upon the Celtic Park atmosphere by a lengthy list of the who's who in European football.
I don't think so. I think the rest of the Scottish fans despise the Old Firm for the fact that they have exploited sectarianism for mutual gain - carving up the spoils in Scottish football as a result - for over a century. The vast majority of the fans of other clubs couldn't give a shit about Irish politics yet since time immemorial have been subjected to morons brandishing red hand flags/tricolours and singing about being up to their knees in blood or blowing people up. And in the case of Celtic the bleating about how everybody is against them when in reality they have always been very much part of the establishment is tiresome. Really they are both just horrible football clubs, and that's why the rest of Scottish football don't like them.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers)
Somebody at BBC Scotland's going to have an "interview without tea and biscuits" tomorrow ;D
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 08, 2012, 05:25:19 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2012, 04:19:17 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 08, 2012, 02:52:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2012, 01:29:49 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 08, 2012, 08:59:39 AM
It's 99% certain that Rangers will be liquidated at this stage. The money simply isn't there, and that's even before you consider the results of the tax case. The next question is what becomes of the new entity that will rise out of the ashes. I've been scornful of Celtic fans and their conspiracy theories regarding Rangers over the years, but the extent to which the meeja have rowed in behind the idea that a piece of Scotland will die if Rangers are not saved is a real eye-opener. These, after all, are the same people who were merciless when Celtic were on the brink back in the early 90's. The upcoming battle between them and the revolting masses who are luxuriating in the demise of Rangers is going to be fascinating.
Is it really that surprising? Rangers is as Scottish as religious bigotry and heart attacks.
Come again?
In what way is religious bigotry typically scottish?
In the sense that religion still marks people out in Scotland. The whole celtic/rangers thing and the orange order nonsense. Even the celtic conspiracy theories that I only heard of today. What is the point?
Search me, but your sentence essentially reads "The whole pretendy irish/pretendy british thing and the irish organisation formed to combat the Society of United Irishmen nonsense". Its a problem isolated to parts of West Central Scotland - those that suffered/benefitted from massive Irish immigration. It simply does not exist in Edinburgh, Dundee, Aberdeen, the Borders or the Highlands.
QuoteIt's all way past its sell by date. Nobody gives a sh*t about religion in Germany or Switzerland.
It's not as bad in Scotland as in Norn Irn but it's still more important than in Germany or even the 26 counties.
I don't know about Switzerland, but the Bundesrepublik is a great example of a tolerant modern european state. Was it worth what their society went through to get there? Who knows, it's too early to say...
The RoI is a very religiously homogeneous place, bigots need an "other" to hate. There's even less anti-Protestant bigotry in Poland, because there's even less protestants.
Germany had the 30 years war in the 1600s to come to a peace between Catholics and Protestants. Post ww1 has nothing to do with it.
And the Highlands are lovely . But a very large proportion of Scots live in Strathclyde.
Bigots need the right economic temperature and education system.
got this from a comments section of a paper article on RFC.
Don't kill me if its been posted before:
no income tax
no vat
no money back
no rfc
green and white on the ibrox door
an Asda mega, superstore
god bless cfc
long live cfc
viva cfc
c'est magnifique cfc
rip rfc, rip rfc
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 08, 2012, 09:36:39 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 08, 2012, 08:57:37 PM
1890 ;D
The rest of the Scottish fans are just hurting, jealous to the point of lunatic madness of the quality and successes of the fenian club, the impeccable record of their travelling fans wherever they travel around Europe and the praise heaped upon the Celtic Park atmosphere by a lengthy list of the who's who in European football.
I don't think so. I think the rest of the Scottish fans despise the Old Firm for the fact that they have exploited sectarianism for mutual gain - carving up the spoils in Scottish football as a result - for over a century. The vast majority of the fans of other clubs couldn't give a shit about Irish politics yet since time immemorial have been subjected to morons brandishing red hand flags/tricolours and singing about being up to their knees in blood or blowing people up. And in the case of Celtic the bleating about how everybody is against them when in reality they have always been very much part of the establishment is tiresome. Really they are both just horrible football clubs, and that's why the rest of Scottish football don't like them.
Maybe Scotland is also the mother source of spite. ;D
The thing is, success and dominance for Celtic breeds a hatred which manifests its way in other shapes and forms. Many of the reasons for the hate are petty - tricolour/Irish songs , some of the reasons are just a part of normal club rivalry. The behaviour of Celtic's travelling fans (not unlike the Tartan Army) have been applauded by police chiefs and city councils all over Europe. As a football club it has earned respect and a long established tradition.
I defer to their judgement rather than some cranky, intolerant, bitter Scot ;D
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 08, 2012, 09:16:48 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 08, 2012, 09:08:20 PM
Fair enough, but the Irish connection does grate.
I'm satisfied to have to your agreement on the rest ;D
Sort of. There are lots of football teams in Ireland, why do so many Irishmen follow a Scottish one?
I also find people like Phil Mac Giolla Bhian very strange.
Nor are celtic the only Scottish team to be lauded for their supporters abroad.
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/uefa-cup-stimmungsvolle-schafzuechter-1.261923 (http://www.sueddeutsche.de/sport/uefa-cup-stimmungsvolle-schafzuechter-1.261923)
I'm not a Celtic supporter, just a sympathiser, my team was Dundalk, when Dundalk played Celtic in the Euro cup I was there supporting Dundalk against the arrogant, big time charlie, Celts. I can't speak for why some Irish people actively support Celtic. The Northern Ireland football scene is complicated. Maybe Celtic has what you might call a symboling attraction. In the South the obsession is with the EPL, that's where the best of the local players go to play professional football. LOI clubs suffered badly in the early 70's and have not recovered the ground they had < 1970's
Many factors have combined for there to be a chronic inferiority complex amongst Irish people towards the local league clubs and yet a fascination with all things English.
I don't know this Phil Mac Giolla Bhian and why you find him strange, I presume he's a chap who supports Celtic.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 08, 2012, 09:16:48 PM
Sort of. There are lots of football teams in Ireland, why do so many Irishmen follow a Scottish one?
Speaking as someone who devotes a frightening chunk of my time to an English soccer team, the answer to that one is . . . I don't know. People used support League of Ireland teams. I wonder whether it's the GAA's fault. Wait, hear me out! We've always been ones for the big event, thousands going to one-off (for most people) events in high summer. Then when English soccer became more accessible, whether through cheaper travel or television exposure, the domestic version of the game looked paltry by comparison and it became a vicious cycle of paltryness. I started going to watch the Blues a few years back and if it weren't for the fact that I bumped into an old school friend there I doubt I would have kept going. You're sitting in the ground wondering whether everyone is judging you for not going more often or not singing in the right place or (as I found to my cost for writing about it on my blog) harbouring sympathies for the pure evil that is the GAA. I don't see things getting better for domestic soccer any time soon.
Quote from: Main Street on March 08, 2012, 08:57:37 PM
1890 ;D
The rest of the Scottish fans are just hurting, jealous to the point of lunatic madness of the quality and successes of the fenian club, the impeccable record of their travelling fans wherever they travel around Europe and the praise heaped upon the Celtic Park atmosphere by a lengthy list of the who's who in European football.
I don't think so. I think the rest of the Scottish fans despise the Old Firm for the fact that they have exploited sectarianism for mutual gain - carving up the spoils in Scottish football as a result - for over a century. The vast majority of the fans of other clubs couldn't give a shit about Irish politics yet since time immemorial have been subjected to morons brandishing red hand flags/tricolours and singing about being up to their knees in blood or blowing people up. And in the case of Celtic the bleating about how everybody is against them when in reality they have always been very much part of the establishment is tiresome. Really they are both just horrible football clubs, and that's why the rest of Scottish football don't like them.
[/quote]
Maybe Scotland is also the mother source of spite. ;D[/quote]
rangers fans using flags and emblems from a conflict in Ireland to wind up celtic supporters, and celtic supporters using flags and emblems to wind up rangers supporters...and this is a Scottish problem?
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 12:11:37 PM
rangers fans using flags and emblems from a conflict in Ireland to wind up celtic supporters, and celtic supporters using flags and emblems to wind up rangers supporters...and this is a Scottish problem?
John Knox is to blame for everything. Bad weather, the stupid name they have these days for Marathon bars, Waterford not being able to win the All-Ireland . . . everything, I tells ya!
Quote from: seafoid on March 08, 2012, 10:25:07 PM
Germany had the 30 years war in the 1600s to come to a peace between Catholics and Protestants. Post ww1 has nothing to do with it.
so as long as it's not christian vs christian it doesn't matter? I mean, it's not like any religion was persecuted in Germany between 1932 and 1945, aye?
why do so many Irishmen follow a Scottish one?
There's a strong link between Donegal and Scotland isn't there ? Then the Celtic tricolour stuff must have set off a feedback loop with the rest of the country. And the 1967 european cup could have been in the mix at some stage.
Quote from: seafoid on March 09, 2012, 12:19:03 PM
why do so many Irishmen follow a Scottish one?
There's a strong link between Donegal and Scotland isn't there ?
More traditionally between Antrim and Scotland - hence Antrim being an isolted hurling county, where the tradition was to play with the longer, leaner hurl.
Quote from: seafoid on March 09, 2012, 12:19:03 PM
Then the Celtic tricolour stuff must have set off a feedback loop with the rest of the country. And the 1967 european cup could have been in the mix at some stage.
Ahh, gloryhunting essentially. Suppose that explains why Lochee Harp never got the big support from over the water...
Quote from: Main Street on March 09, 2012, 09:08:09 AM
The behaviour of Celtic's travelling fans (not unlike the Tartan Army) have been applauded by police chiefs and city councils all over Europe. As a football club it has earned respect and a long established tradition.
I defer to their judgement rather than some cranky, intolerant, bitter Scot ;D
Like the Tartan Army they tend to turn up and have a laugh, drink a lot of beer and put a lot of money into the local economy over a few days. I've been on enough Scotland trips to know why councils all over the place like these kind of travelling supporters. Having them on a full time basis would be a different matter altogether ;D. As such the opinion of the cranky, intolerant, bitter Scot carries more weight here than the Municipality of Seville . All that said the bitter Scot in question has a very substantial Irish heritage, so perhaps I got my inbuilt bigotry from you f*ckers >:(
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 10:05:33 AM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 08, 2012, 09:16:48 PM
Sort of. There are lots of football teams in Ireland, why do so many Irishmen follow a Scottish one?
Speaking as someone who devotes a frightening chunk of my time to an English soccer team, the answer to that one is . . . I don't know. People used support League of Ireland teams. I wonder whether it's the GAA's fault. Wait, hear me out! We've always been ones for the big event, thousands going to one-off (for most people) events in high summer. Then when English soccer became more accessible, whether through cheaper travel or television exposure, the domestic version of the game looked paltry by comparison and it became a vicious cycle of paltryness. I started going to watch the Blues a few years back and if it weren't for the fact that I bumped into an old school friend there I doubt I would have kept going. You're sitting in the ground wondering whether everyone is judging you for not going more often or not singing in the right place or (as I found to my cost for writing about it on my blog) harbouring sympathies for the pure evil that is the GAA. I don't see things getting better for domestic soccer any time soon.
Interesting argument. I find one of the greatest things about the GAA being the pride in local club and county. Following a soccer club from another country can surely never replicate that. Following your local soccer team might not have the same obvious attraction of the big crowds, stadium etc of a bigger club somewhere else, but any success you experience through it will be all the sweeter.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 09, 2012, 01:26:43 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 10:05:33 AM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 08, 2012, 09:16:48 PM
Sort of. There are lots of football teams in Ireland, why do so many Irishmen follow a Scottish one?
Speaking as someone who devotes a frightening chunk of my time to an English soccer team, the answer to that one is . . . I don't know. People used support League of Ireland teams. I wonder whether it's the GAA's fault. Wait, hear me out! We've always been ones for the big event, thousands going to one-off (for most people) events in high summer. Then when English soccer became more accessible, whether through cheaper travel or television exposure, the domestic version of the game looked paltry by comparison and it became a vicious cycle of paltryness. I started going to watch the Blues a few years back and if it weren't for the fact that I bumped into an old school friend there I doubt I would have kept going. You're sitting in the ground wondering whether everyone is judging you for not going more often or not singing in the right place or (as I found to my cost for writing about it on my blog) harbouring sympathies for the pure evil that is the GAA. I don't see things getting better for domestic soccer any time soon.
Interesting argument. I find one of the greatest things about the GAA being the pride in local club and county. Following a soccer club from another country can surely never replicate that. Following your local soccer team might not have the same obvious attraction of the big crowds, stadium etc of a bigger club somewhere else, but any success you experience through it will be all the sweeter.
When I see Hibs fans belting out Sunshine on Leith or Aberden supporters singing the Nothern Lights, I reckon OF supproters must feel they're missing out by not following a team with that intimiate connection to its community. Possibly why they so readily adopt the symbols of violence from another island.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 01:13:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 09, 2012, 12:19:03 PM
why do so many Irishmen follow a Scottish one?
There's a strong link between Donegal and Scotland isn't there ?
More traditionally between Antrim and Scotland - hence Antrim being an isolted hurling county, where the tradition was to play with the longer, leaner hurl.
Quote from: seafoid on March 09, 2012, 12:19:03 PM
Then the Celtic tricolour stuff must have set off a feedback loop with the rest of the country. And the 1967 european cup could have been in the mix at some stage.
Ahh, gloryhunting essentially. Suppose that explains why Lochee Harp never got the big support from over the water...
didn't a lot of Donegal men go working in glasgow ? The Antrim thing is a bit older I think.
Do you know this map ? All placenames as Gaeilge agus Gaidhlig
http://www.colmcille.net/en/projects/project.php?ID=24
the angle is a bit different - the countries are fairly close if you look at it sideways
Quote from: seafoid on March 09, 2012, 02:10:08 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 01:13:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 09, 2012, 12:19:03 PM
why do so many Irishmen follow a Scottish one?
There's a strong link between Donegal and Scotland isn't there ?
More traditionally between Antrim and Scotland - hence Antrim being an isolted hurling county, where the tradition was to play with the longer, leaner hurl.
Quote from: seafoid on March 09, 2012, 12:19:03 PM
Then the Celtic tricolour stuff must have set off a feedback loop with the rest of the country. And the 1967 european cup could have been in the mix at some stage.
Ahh, gloryhunting essentially. Suppose that explains why Lochee Harp never got the big support from over the water...
didn't a lot of Donegal men go working in glasgow ? The Antrim thing is a bit older I think.
Do you know this map ? All placenames as Gaeilge agus Gaidhlig
http://www.colmcille.net/en/projects/project.php?ID=24
the angle is a bit different - the countries are fairly close if you look at it sideways
Placenames are an interesting one.
For example, the Western Isles, the main Gaidhlig speaking region, has mostly Germanic/Nordic placenames (every island ending in an -ey sound for example).
Meanwhile, you'll find Gaidhlig place names in the North East, where the original language was more related to Welsh than Gaidhlig, and the modern dialect heavily influenced with Germanicsms picked up through trade with Scandinavia and the low countries - you'll still hear people prounounce what? as "fit?" or "white" as "fite", and the local word for girl, "quine" is almost exactly the same as the Norwegian. Yet our shinty pitch was called Balgownie, I'd be very surprised of there wasn't a Ballygowan, Smithstown, somewhere in Ireland.
How do you pronounce 'Camanachd'?
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 02:20:30 PM
How do you pronounce 'Camanachd'?
In English, as its written, with the ch pronounced in the Scots or German way (or a heavily aspirated h).
I think the Gaidhlig pronounciation is a bit more like "camanach-ck".
It's also quite hard to define what it means, it's somewhere between "shinty" and "shinty organisation", some teams call themselves Placename Camanachd and some Placename Camanachd Club.
The sport itself is normally referred to as "iomain" in Gaidhlig media.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 02:27:54 PM
Ca-man-akh-k
Or Camanash-ed if you'r english, and encountering the word for the first time.
My wife rarely conceals her exasperation at pronunciations in Irish. Despite this, she gets very stroppy if anyone mispronounces her beloved Berkshire
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 02:33:15 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 02:27:54 PM
Ca-man-akh-k
Or Camanash-ed if you'r english, and encountering the word for the first time.
My wife rarely conceals her exasperation at pronunciations in Irish. Despite this, she gets very stroppy if anyone mispronounces her beloved Berkshire
It's not so much the pronounciation as the complete lack of it:-
"bh" = "v", except when it doesn't and remains silent
"ch" = "ch", except when it doesn't remains silent
"dh" = " "
"gh" = "ch", except when it doesn't and remains silent
"mh" = "v", except when it doesn't and remains silent
"sh" = " "
"th" = " "
It's a minefield.
I doubt many non-Scots could pronounce "Kirkcudbright", "Anstruther", "Garioch", "Milngavie" or "Footdee" correctly first round.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 02:41:19 PM
I doubt many non-Scots could pronounce "Kirkcudbright", "Anstruther", "Garioch", "Milngavie" or "Footdee" correctly first round.
You can say that about any language. How about "Bache", "Kirkby" or "Gateacre", placenames I was well familiar with by the time I left Liverpool. Even familiar placenames like Leicester or Portsmouth are daft if you break them down.
btw, I've been reading your username as "jay-shoch", is that right, nearly right, or miles away?
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 02:27:54 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 02:20:30 PM
How do you pronounce 'Camanachd'?
In English, as its written, with the ch pronounced in the Scots or German way (or a heavily aspirated h).
I think the Gaidhlig pronounciation is a bit more like "camanach-ck".
It's also quite hard to define what it means, it's somewhere between "shinty" and "shinty organisation", some teams call themselves Placename Camanachd and some Placename Camanachd Club.
The sport itself is normally referred to as "iomain" in Gaidhlig media.
The phonetic pronounciation of the Gaelic word is camanach with an English k sound rolling of the end of the ch sound. It simply means the sport of shinty. Comunn na Camanachd - The Association of the Shinty. Camanachd an Obain - The Shinty of Oban.
As seafoid's map shows Scotland and Ireland share a common Gaelic culture and the links between the parts of the countries that are closest geographically go back thousands of years. The Gaelic of the southern isles in Scotland would traditionally be closer to the Irish of Ulster than to the Gaelic of Lewis. People having being coming and going over that bit of water for a long long time. The more recent Donegal link is due to mass immigration from there to Scotland in the 19th century but again you had Scots over there and Donegal folk over here long before that. In fact, that's something else I can pin on the Old Firm fans, grossly over simplifying the long relationship between Scotland and Ireland. If you know your history indeed ;D
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 03:02:01 PM
btw, I've been reading your username as "jay-shoch", is that right, nearly right, or miles away?
Close enough. Day-shock, although I should spell it déiseach
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 08, 2012, 09:36:39 PM
I don't think so. I think the rest of the Scottish fans despise the Old Firm for the fact that they have exploited sectarianism for mutual gain - carving up the spoils in Scottish football as a result - for over a century. The vast majority of the fans of other clubs couldn't give a shit about Irish politics yet since time immemorial have been subjected to morons brandishing red hand flags/tricolours and singing about being up to their knees in blood or blowing people up. And in the case of Celtic the bleating about how everybody is against them when in reality they have always been very much part of the establishment is tiresome. Really they are both just horrible football clubs, and that's why the rest of Scottish football don't like them.
wouldnt be in agreement with you there
- i'd say the reason for dislike/hatred is the success of the two glasgow clubs. plus the townies v hicks old global feud.
- whats sectarian about an Irish Tricolour flag - or even how it is brandished.....come off it...
- what songs celebrate blowing people up- I dont know too many and certainly never heard them sung at CP.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 03:02:01 PM
btw, I've been reading your username as "jay-shoch", is that right, nearly right, or miles away?
I have been reading it "dey-shech". I probably wrong too, but it being Seachtain na Gaeilge I would be interested to get the correct pronunciation.
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
- i'd say the reason for dislike/hatred is the success of the two glasgow clubs. plus the townies v hicks old global feud.
Aye, such a shame that people from Aberdeen, Dundee and Edinburgh are hicks. If only those cities were like Glasgow, they could be the centre of Europe's energy industry, have a flourishing regeneration
and a world famous cultural festival.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 09, 2012, 03:21:34 PM
I have been reading it "dey-shech". I probably wrong too, but it being Seachtain na Gaeilge I would be interested to get the correct pronunciation.
I suppose it would be pronounced differently in other parts of the country. To me, 'Pól' is pronounced Pole. But the way my friend from Donegal pronounces his own name is as close to Paul as makes no difference. Which is handy, considering he only started using the Irish variant on his name a few years back!
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 08, 2012, 09:36:39 PM
I don't think so. I think the rest of the Scottish fans despise the Old Firm for the fact that they have exploited sectarianism for mutual gain - carving up the spoils in Scottish football as a result - for over a century. The vast majority of the fans of other clubs couldn't give a shit about Irish politics yet since time immemorial have been subjected to morons brandishing red hand flags/tricolours and singing about being up to their knees in blood or blowing people up. And in the case of Celtic the bleating about how everybody is against them when in reality they have always been very much part of the establishment is tiresome. Really they are both just horrible football clubs, and that's why the rest of Scottish football don't like them.
wouldnt be in agreement with you there
- i'd say the reason for dislike/hatred is the success of the two glasgow clubs. plus the townies v hicks old global feud.
- whats sectarian about an Irish Tricolour flag - or even how it is brandished.....come off it...
- what songs celebrate blowing people up- I dont know too many and certainly never heard them sung at CP.
Well that doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Those are however some of the key reasons for the dislike many Scottish football fans have for the Old Firm, or the "bigot brothers" as they are more commonly known amongst Scottish football fans.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 09, 2012, 03:21:34 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 03:02:01 PM
btw, I've been reading your username as "jay-shoch", is that right, nearly right, or miles away?
I have been reading it "dey-shech". I probably wrong too, but it being Seachtain na Gaeilge I would be interested to get the correct pronunciation.
Jay shoch... is Connacht style
Day shoch.. is Munster
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
- what songs celebrate blowing people up- I dont know too many and certainly never heard them sung at CP.
Really? You've never heard any "ooh, aah, up the 'RA" chants from Celtic fans?
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 03:53:07 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
- what songs celebrate blowing people up- I dont know too many and certainly never heard them sung at CP.
Really? You've never heard any "ooh, aah, up the 'RA" chants from Celtic fans?
Old Firm supporters are renowned for their selective hearing. Your average celtic fan can hear the word fenian whispered from over 500yds away but not hear Sean South* being given full volume in the stadium they're standing in.
*I know this song doesn't celebrate blowing people up, it celebrates a British Army victory :P
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 03:57:17 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 03:53:07 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
- what songs celebrate blowing people up- I dont know too many and certainly never heard them sung at CP.
Really? You've never heard any "ooh, aah, up the 'RA" chants from Celtic fans?
Old Firm supporters are renowned for their selective hearing. Your average celtic fan can hear the word fenian whispered from over 500yds away but not hear Sean South* being given full volume in the stadium they're standing in.
*I know this song doesn't celebrate blowing people up, it celebrates a British Army victory :P
we also sing Aiden McAnespie, would you describe that as a British Army victory as well?
Quote from: charlieTully on March 09, 2012, 04:08:40 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 03:57:17 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 03:53:07 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
- what songs celebrate blowing people up- I dont know too many and certainly never heard them sung at CP.
Really? You've never heard any "ooh, aah, up the 'RA" chants from Celtic fans?
Old Firm supporters are renowned for their selective hearing. Your average celtic fan can hear the word fenian whispered from over 500yds away but not hear Sean South* being given full volume in the stadium they're standing in.
*I know this song doesn't celebrate blowing people up, it celebrates a British Army victory :P
we also sing Aiden McAnespie, would you describe that as a British Army victory as well?
Nope.
Aiden was illegally shot for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, by soldiers who weren't adhering to their own rules, let alone anyone elses. Pointless, horrible incident.
Sean South was taking part in an armed raid on a barracks and was shot for it. Flee with the craws, get shot with the craws.
But why sing either at a football match?
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 04:11:58 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on March 09, 2012, 04:08:40 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 03:57:17 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 03:53:07 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
- what songs celebrate blowing people up- I dont know too many and certainly never heard them sung at CP.
Really? You've never heard any "ooh, aah, up the 'RA" chants from Celtic fans?
Old Firm supporters are renowned for their selective hearing. Your average celtic fan can hear the word fenian whispered from over 500yds away but not hear Sean South* being given full volume in the stadium they're standing in.
*I know this song doesn't celebrate blowing people up, it celebrates a British Army victory :P
we also sing Aiden McAnespie, would you describe that as a British Army victory as well?
Nope.
Aiden was illegally shot for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, by soldiers who weren't adhering to their own rules, let alone anyone elses. Pointless, horrible incident.
Sean South was taking part in an armed raid on a barracks and was shot for it. Flee with the craws, get shot with the craws.
But why sing either at a football match?
the feeling of solidarty and comradeship of 60,000 people belting out songs of Irish history is hard to beat my friend. nothing more sinister than that. it also keeps the memory of people like Aiden alive.
Quote from: charlieTully on March 09, 2012, 04:20:11 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 04:11:58 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on March 09, 2012, 04:08:40 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 03:57:17 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 03:53:07 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
- what songs celebrate blowing people up- I dont know too many and certainly never heard them sung at CP.
Really? You've never heard any "ooh, aah, up the 'RA" chants from Celtic fans?
Old Firm supporters are renowned for their selective hearing. Your average celtic fan can hear the word fenian whispered from over 500yds away but not hear Sean South* being given full volume in the stadium they're standing in.
*I know this song doesn't celebrate blowing people up, it celebrates a British Army victory :P
we also sing Aiden McAnespie, would you describe that as a British Army victory as well?
Nope.
Aiden was illegally shot for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, by soldiers who weren't adhering to their own rules, let alone anyone elses. Pointless, horrible incident.
Sean South was taking part in an armed raid on a barracks and was shot for it. Flee with the craws, get shot with the craws.
But why sing either at a football match?
the feeling of solidarty and comradeship of 60,000 people belting out songs of Irish history is hard to beat my friend. nothing more sinister than that. it also keeps the memory of people like Aiden alive.
Is Irish domestic culture so weak that you need to hang on to a Scottish football club to do that?
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 04:23:26 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on March 09, 2012, 04:20:11 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 04:11:58 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on March 09, 2012, 04:08:40 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 03:57:17 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 03:53:07 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
- what songs celebrate blowing people up- I dont know too many and certainly never heard them sung at CP.
Really? You've never heard any "ooh, aah, up the 'RA" chants from Celtic fans?
Old Firm supporters are renowned for their selective hearing. Your average celtic fan can hear the word fenian whispered from over 500yds away but not hear Sean South* being given full volume in the stadium they're standing in.
*I know this song doesn't celebrate blowing people up, it celebrates a British Army victory :P
we also sing Aiden McAnespie, would you describe that as a British Army victory as well?
Nope.
Aiden was illegally shot for being in the wrong place at the wrong time, by soldiers who weren't adhering to their own rules, let alone anyone elses. Pointless, horrible incident.
Sean South was taking part in an armed raid on a barracks and was shot for it. Flee with the craws, get shot with the craws.
But why sing either at a football match?
the feeling of solidarty and comradeship of 60,000 people belting out songs of Irish history is hard to beat my friend. nothing more sinister than that. it also keeps the memory of people like Aiden alive.
Is Irish domestic culture so weak that you need to hang on to a Scottish football club to do that?
not at all brother, i just enjoy it. its that simple. me along with a few thousand others who head over on a regular basis.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 09, 2012, 03:39:53 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 08, 2012, 09:36:39 PM
I don't think so. I think the rest of the Scottish fans despise the Old Firm for the fact that they have exploited sectarianism for mutual gain - carving up the spoils in Scottish football as a result - for over a century. The vast majority of the fans of other clubs couldn't give a shit about Irish politics yet since time immemorial have been subjected to morons brandishing red hand flags/tricolours and singing about being up to their knees in blood or blowing people up. And in the case of Celtic the bleating about how everybody is against them when in reality they have always been very much part of the establishment is tiresome. Really they are both just horrible football clubs, and that's why the rest of Scottish football don't like them.
wouldnt be in agreement with you there
- i'd say the reason for dislike/hatred is the success of the two glasgow clubs. plus the townies v hicks old global feud.
- whats sectarian about an Irish Tricolour flag - or even how it is brandished.....come off it...
- what songs celebrate blowing people up- I dont know too many and certainly never heard them sung at CP.
Well that doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Those are however some of the key reasons for the dislike many Scottish football fans have for the Old Firm, or the "bigot brothers" as they are more commonly known amongst Scottish football fans.
well it was nothing personal there fella.
I'm happy to say that Celtic are disliked by many if not all clubs in scotland - or elements of them, but apart from the potential for jealosy, I cannot see too many jocks disliking one or the other because of 'bigotry' ! no harm to you folks, but for the 75% of the population, thats a bit too above their level - and I am trying not to put that in a bad way - the working classes just dont or wont be too bothered about that. imo.
but I would like to hear your response to my other parts in my last post . no problem if not.
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 03:53:07 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
- what songs celebrate blowing people up- I dont know too many and certainly never heard them sung at CP.
Really? You've never heard any "ooh, aah, up the 'RA" chants from Celtic fans?
and what part of oohh ahh etc etc glorifies blowing up anyone ....
I sing the first line of our national anthem - It doesnt make me a 'soldier' and I have no intention of manning the 'bear na baoil' either.
I dont sing that graffitti on the wall song either but use a a bit of cop on there man !
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 04:49:17 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 03:53:07 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
- what songs celebrate blowing people up- I dont know too many and certainly never heard them sung at CP.
Really? You've never heard any "ooh, aah, up the 'RA" chants from Celtic fans?
and what part of oohh ahh etc etc glorifies blowing up anyone ....
I sing the first line of our national anthem - It doesnt make me a 'soldier' and I have no intention of manning the 'bear na baoil' either.
I dont sing that graffitti on the wall song either but use a a bit of cop on there man !
Utterly disingenuous
I love the way the word Fenian is misunderstood and misused by all sides these days.
The raid that resulted in the death of Sean South as reported in the IT
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0104/1224309777722.html
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 04:49:17 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 03:53:07 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
- what songs celebrate blowing people up- I dont know too many and certainly never heard them sung at CP.
Really? You've never heard any "ooh, aah, up the 'RA" chants from Celtic fans?
and what part of oohh ahh etc etc glorifies blowing up anyone ....
I sing the first line of our national anthem - It doesnt make me a 'soldier' and I have no intention of manning the 'bear na baoil' either.
I dont sing that graffitti on the wall song either but use a a bit of cop on there man !
Its the same idiots who ruin a good sing a long of "the fields of Athenry" with "Sinn Féin" "IRA". The song has nothing to do with either.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 09, 2012, 05:11:34 PM
People like the guy whom my avatar is based on don't tend to help the stereotypical image of Old Firm followers held by many others.
btw, what was the Rule 42 crowd's reaction to International Rules Football and compromise rules Shinty-Hurling, given that both Aussie Rules and Shinty are foreign games, and played by "Crown Forces" in their respective nations?
EDIT: just seen that Rule 42 was "non-Gaelic" games, which would include shinty and International Rules.
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 04:51:48 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 04:49:17 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 03:53:07 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
- what songs celebrate blowing people up- I dont know too many and certainly never heard them sung at CP.
Really? You've never heard any "ooh, aah, up the 'RA" chants from Celtic fans?
and what part of oohh ahh etc etc glorifies blowing up anyone ....
I sing the first line of our national anthem - It doesnt make me a 'soldier' and I have no intention of manning the 'bear na baoil' either.
I dont sing that graffitti on the wall song either but use a a bit of cop on there man !
Utterly disingenuous
Please illustrate how and why....
I'm a tad bemused here!
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 09, 2012, 06:50:20 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 04:49:17 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 03:53:07 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
- what songs celebrate blowing people up- I dont know too many and certainly never heard them sung at CP.
Really? You've never heard any "ooh, aah, up the 'RA" chants from Celtic fans?
and what part of oohh ahh etc etc glorifies blowing up anyone ....
I sing the first line of our national anthem - It doesnt make me a 'soldier' and I have no intention of manning the 'bear na baoil' either.
I dont sing that graffitti on the wall song either but use a a bit of cop on there man !
Its the same idiots who ruin a good sing a long of "the fields of Athenry" with "Sinn Féin" "IRA". The song has nothing to do with either.
....and???
Think those 'additions' are more that moronic
But it's still a sihte song!
Apart from that ... So what ??
Some of these replies are more than odd!!
If not completely pointless! :)
Lda your opinion is valid as a jock and resident obv. As a Celtic fan traveling over for games since 1995 I've seen a fair bit and my opinion is obv one as a Celtic fan.i think that's a stereotype that non Glaswegians want to portray alright but Celtic clubs support and employees over the years would point to it being more inclusive, non sectarian and not bigoted - though there were pockets of these.
I don't fully grasp you 'explanations' above but it doesn't matter really.
Songs glorifying the IRA - that's a whole other debate whether songs about the old IRA are the same etc etc
But the point really is about what songs glorified blowing people up?
Ok there are none.
I think you were using deliberate OTT language as many Celtic detractors are wont to do in order to make it look Like Celtic fans are al queda or something.
These songs have been banned ( despite the majority being harmless and about the deaths of Irish martyrs and not them killing anyone!!!) and thus apart from the odd time at an away match ( none at the one I attended last year) rebel songs are no longer heard at Celtic park - are there any more allegations you want me to debunk?
Look I know many of you dislike Celtic maybe hate them but plenty of jocko lads I've met from Dundee , hibs, Aberdeen , kilmarnock and dunfermeline all don't like the celts - but they hate rangers and reckon there is a difference between the two with Celtic being a lot better.
Maybe they ere just all being nice. Either way IMO you are over egging it - and your examples are mythbusted
It's sad when the flying of the tricolour at Celtic Park is regarded as a bigoted act, a deliberate attempt to play the sectarian card, rather than what it is, a club staying true to its founding ethos, Scottish and Irish.
Not too different from the attitudes in the North when a player declares for the South, he's all of a sudden regarded a bitter narrow minded bigot by NI fans, for expressing (what is for the player) just a normal natural part of national identity.
Back on topic with a bullet. It appears Rangers fc have received a last minute postponement of the execution and can limp along (zombie like) for what remains of their season.
Regardless of what happens, it's inevitable they will be barred from European competitions for 1 to 3 years. There's no commercial sense in anybody contemplating a takeover with this multi million taxcase hanging over the club. The tax man having the same status as the grim reaper sharpening his shears outside the gates of Ibrox.
Should Rangers liquidate and are reincarnated in another form, they will have to apply to join division 3.
Unless of course, the rules are changed to accommodate a club whose ethos was rooted in financial doping and fraud. Most probably such an accommodation would be anathema to most Scottish fans, regardless of the financial cost to their club.
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 04:46:46 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 09, 2012, 03:39:53 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 08, 2012, 09:36:39 PM
I don't think so. I think the rest of the Scottish fans despise the Old Firm for the fact that they have exploited sectarianism for mutual gain - carving up the spoils in Scottish football as a result - for over a century. The vast majority of the fans of other clubs couldn't give a shit about Irish politics yet since time immemorial have been subjected to morons brandishing red hand flags/tricolours and singing about being up to their knees in blood or blowing people up. And in the case of Celtic the bleating about how everybody is against them when in reality they have always been very much part of the establishment is tiresome. Really they are both just horrible football clubs, and that's why the rest of Scottish football don't like them.
wouldnt be in agreement with you there
- i'd say the reason for dislike/hatred is the success of the two glasgow clubs. plus the townies v hicks old global feud.
- whats sectarian about an Irish Tricolour flag - or even how it is brandished.....come off it...
- what songs celebrate blowing people up- I dont know too many and certainly never heard them sung at CP.
Well that doesn't surprise me in the slightest. Those are however some of the key reasons for the dislike many Scottish football fans have for the Old Firm, or the "bigot brothers" as they are more commonly known amongst Scottish football fans.
well it was nothing personal there fella.
I'm happy to say that Celtic are disliked by many if not all clubs in scotland - or elements of them, but apart from the potential for jealosy, I cannot see too many jocks disliking one or the other because of 'bigotry' ! no harm to you folks, but for the 75% of the population, thats a bit too above their level - and I am trying not to put that in a bad way - the working classes just dont or wont be too bothered about that. imo.
but I would like to hear your response to my other parts in my last post . no problem if not.
That is both horrendously arrogant, and utter shite.
The average Scot is well aware of what bigotry is - it's not above us, it's beneath us. We're better than that, and we loathe the Old Firm for dragging us down.
Quote from: Main Street on March 10, 2012, 08:41:17 AM
It's sad when the flying of the tricolour at Celtic Park is regarded as a bigoted act, a deliberate attempt to play the sectarian card, rather than what it is, a club staying true to its founding ethos, Scottish and Irish.
No-one has suggested it it. Its a flag in celtic colours, flown at celtic games.
The songs glorifying murderers leave a sour note. And despite the Kevin Lynch players on here trying to deflect and deny it, the celtic happily sings songs in praise of the provos.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 10, 2012, 09:35:34 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 10, 2012, 08:41:17 AM
It's sad when the flying of the tricolour at Celtic Park is regarded as a bigoted act, a deliberate attempt to play the sectarian card, rather than what it is, a club staying true to its founding ethos, Scottish and Irish.
No-one has suggested it it. Its a flag in celtic colours, flown at celtic games.
It's the irish tricolour flag that is flown at Celtic Park on match days.
And yes, reference has been made about Celtic fans brandishing the tricolour, alluding to that it was a weapon of hate. And that the basis of the club was to play the flag/irish issue as if it was the flip side in a game of bigots with Rangers.
QuoteThe songs glorifying murderers leave a sour note. And despite the Kevin Lynch players on here trying to deflect and deny it, the celtic happily sings songs in praise of the provos.
The only murder song I've heard Celtic fans sing is the McAnespie song, and there is no glorification.
If it's the provo add on, 'ooh ahh up the raa', it's definitely not appropriate at a football game.
But if you want to put a magnifying glass on that, don't expect me to take you seriously, that that reflects malevolence on the fans in general or the ethos of the club.
If you have deliberate political opinions/bias on republican violence from the recent past, then I suggest you take it to the thread that abhors some violence but is somehow at ease with other forms of violence. Or start a thread that abhors all forms of violence, call it the Jain thread :)
Quote from: Main Street on March 10, 2012, 10:15:56 AM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 10, 2012, 09:35:34 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 10, 2012, 08:41:17 AM
It's sad when the flying of the tricolour at Celtic Park is regarded as a bigoted act, a deliberate attempt to play the sectarian card, rather than what it is, a club staying true to its founding ethos, Scottish and Irish.
No-one has suggested it it. Its a flag in celtic colours, flown at celtic games.
It's the irish tricolour flag that is flown at Celtic Park on match days.
And yes, reference has been made about Celtic fans brandishing the tricolour, alluding to that it was a weapon of hate. And that the basis of the club was to play the flag/irish issue as if it was the flip side in a game of bigots with Rangers.
QuoteThe songs glorifying murderers leave a sour note. And despite the Kevin Lynch players on here trying to deflect and deny it, the celtic happily sings songs in praise of the provos.
The only murder song I've heard Celtic fans sing is the McAnespie song, and there is no glorification
If it's the provo add on, 'ooh ahh up the raa', it's definitely not appropriate at a football game.
But if you want to put a magnifying glass on that, don't expect me to take you seriously, that that reflects malevolence on the fans in general or the ethos of the club.
If you have deliberate political opinions/bias on republican violence from the recent past, then I suggest you take it to the thread that abhors some violence but is somehow at ease with other forms of violence. Or start a thread that abhors all forms of violence, call it the Jain thread :)
Everyone has deliberate political opinions. But no, it's not limited to republican violence. But there's no argument if I said that rangers supporters glorify murderers. You know it, I know it, they'll deny it, but they won't come on here to deny it.
The Glasgow press love to play semantics "is "hun" sectarian?" "is "fenian" sectarian?" "is it the old or new ira/uvf they're singing about?" . That's not the point - there is a significant minority within both supports that seeks to import the violence and hatred that marked the conflict in Northern Ireland into Scottish football.
LDA, I and the vast majority of Scots are thoroughly sick of it. We don't recognise it, we don't understand it, it's not part of our culture, yet every football match involving either of those teams turns into a party political broadcast from the 18th century.
If Irishmen want to celebrate their culture, why can't they do it in Ireland, at Irish football games? We've got enough problems of our own to deal with already.
Is this a rant against some Irish who go over and follow Celtic as if they are low breed bigots, that's rather condescending of you.
Why don't those Celtic fans just go home ;D
I often wonder where they would have been
If we hadn't have taken them in
Fed them and washed them
Thousands in Glasgow alone
From Ireland they came
Brought us nothing but trouble and shame
Well the famine is over
Why don't they go home?
I suspect you have have a selective definition of what constitutes Scottish culture.
You'd suspect very very wrong.
Bigots whoever they follow aren't welcome in scottish football.
Genuine football supporters whoever they follow are.
There is no one scottish culture - there's many, and a lot of them have broad definitions.
Thinking that public expressions of hate and violence are stupid and outdated does not make a send them back type, no matter what you think.
Quote from: Main Street on March 10, 2012, 11:29:16 AM
Is this a rant against some Irish who go over and follow Celtic as if they are low breed bigots, that's rather condescending of you.
against bigots full stop. Be they irish bigots that come over to watch rangers or celtic, or our own home grown arseholes
I certainly have not got the impression that you are as broad minded as you claim. And part of why you are here is not to discuss but rather to give vent to your type of Scottishness and the moral superiority of your pacifist world view vis a vis selected aspects of republican ideology.
If you wish to discuss these matters, as I suggested start another thread. It would appear that you have much to learn about morality and violence.
On the modern wave of the pollution of Scottish culture by hoards of Irish bigots ;D
It would make no difference to Celtic fc, its ethos or the traditions it is rooted in, if there were no travelling support from Ireland. If Scots today feel it is an integral part of their identity to celebrate aspects of Irish republican culture as espoused by the founding honourable patron Michael Davitt, it might be advisable for you to stretch your Scottishness at least to a point of respect.
Quote from: Main Street on March 10, 2012, 08:41:17 AM
It's sad when the flying of the tricolour at Celtic Park is regarded as a bigoted act, a deliberate attempt to play the sectarian card, rather than what it is, a club staying true to its founding ethos, Scottish and Irish.
Not too different from the attitudes in the North when a player declares for the South, he's all of a sudden regarded a bitter narrow minded bigot by NI fans, for expressing (what is for the player) just a normal natural part of national identity.
Yes, boys like McClean feel so strongly about their national identity that it seems inextricably linked with the fortunes of the teams.
Quote from: Main Street on March 10, 2012, 12:19:48 PM
I certainly have not got the impression that you are as broad minded as you claim. And part of why you are here is not to discuss but rather to give vent to your type of Scottishness and the moral superiority of your pacifist world view vis a vis selected aspects of republican ideology.
If you wish to discuss these matters, as I suggested start another thread. It would appear that you have much to learn about morality and violence.
That others choose a football stadium as a place to celebrate acts of violence would not suggest that I'm the one with much to learn about either morality or violence.
We differ in our opinions on that - cool. We both live in modern european democracies where that sort of thing should be encouraged. But to base the identity of a football club in another country on one strain of irish political thought is rather strange, no?
Quote from: Main Street on March 10, 2012, 12:19:48 PMOn the modern wave of the pollution of Scottish culture by hoards of Irish bigots ;D
It would make no difference to Celtic fc, its ethos or the traditions it is rooted in, if there were no travelling support from Ireland. If Scots today feel it is an integral part of their identity to celebrate aspects of Irish republican culture as espoused by the founding honourable patron Michael Davitt, it might be advisable for you to stretch your Scottishness at least to a point of respect.
Its a rare celtic fan that sings about land reform.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 10, 2012, 03:24:18 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 10, 2012, 08:41:17 AM
It's sad when the flying of the tricolour at Celtic Park is regarded as a bigoted act, a deliberate attempt to play the sectarian card, rather than what it is, a club staying true to its founding ethos, Scottish and Irish.
Not too different from the attitudes in the North when a player declares for the South, he's all of a sudden regarded a bitter narrow minded bigot by NI fans, for expressing (what is for the player) just a normal natural part of national identity.
Yes, boys like McClean feel so strongly about their national identity that it seems inextricably linked with the fortunes of the teams.
Yes indeed - Young McClean felt so strongly about his national identity that he was happy to represent Northern Ireland at U21 level
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 10, 2012, 09:35:34 AM
[quote author=Main Street Its a flag in celtic colours, flown at celtic games.
You could say the same about Rangers flying the Union flag, it's their colours. Is there any need for any of them to fly flags?
Quote from: michaelg on March 10, 2012, 06:20:45 PM
Quote from: Tony Baloney on March 10, 2012, 03:24:18 PM
Quote from: Main Street on March 10, 2012, 08:41:17 AM
It's sad when the flying of the tricolour at Celtic Park is regarded as a bigoted act, a deliberate attempt to play the sectarian card, rather than what it is, a club staying true to its founding ethos, Scottish and Irish.
Not too different from the attitudes in the North when a player declares for the South, he's all of a sudden regarded a bitter narrow minded bigot by NI fans, for expressing (what is for the player) just a normal natural part of national identity.
Yes, boys like McClean feel so strongly about their national identity that it seems inextricably linked with the fortunes of the teams.
Yes indeed - Young McClean felt so strongly about his national identity that he was happy to represent Northern Ireland at U21 level
And contemplated playing for Northern Ireland only they didn't pick him when he was playing for Derry City.
It didn't take long for the slow-burn discussion of Rangers' administration to turn into a full-blown hate-filled blind-alley sectarain debate.
If only BOTH of Glasgow's putrid stir-pots of religious bile could be consigned to liquidation........
These two so-called clubs have no meaning or function beyond the crass and debased "culture" of hate and bigotry that they peddle, no matter how they try to dress it up.
Dunno, I'm finding the whole thing fascinating on a number of levels. I've never really took an interest in soccer although there's pictures about of me wearing the hoops as a child. In fairness I can claim a tenuous link through my grandfather who lined out for them in the '20's before returning home as a founder member and player for the green and white hoops of the Highmoss Sarsfields. Always wondered if there was a link between the skips.
Anyhow, from a geeky point of view, the rangerstaxcase blog exemplifies the value of crowdsourced investigative journalism. Not only did the bloggers and commenters "pull down the facade at Rangers" exposing the greed and corruption, but also the shear lunacy of the 'win at all costs mentality' of professional soccer. From what I've read, Rangers had a number of opportunities over the past decade to rein in the spending and get themselves on an even keel but they choose instead to spend millions more and gamble on European glory. They've bankrupted themselves in an attempt to buy bragging rights over their neighbours. Crazy. No notion of fairness or sportsmanship exist is this game, it's not even about winning, it's about dominating all around you. If the GAA ever goes professional, I'll cease to me a member the same day.
On a cultural level the contrast is amusing. Okay, I'm a fenian, so I'm going to be biased. I've never been to a soccer game and my only experience of soccer culture outside Ireland is the last couple of weeks on the "kerrydalestreet" and "rangermedia" forums. However, the cultural differences between the two boards is a bit mad. For example on "kerrydalestreet", swearing and cursing is banned while on "rangermedia" you'd do well to get through a post without someone f**king your sister, mother or daughter. "kerrydalestreet" has 'jelly and ice-cream', "rangermedia" has 'vodka and charlie'. "kerrydalestreet" threads will usually run to 20 or 30 pages of discussion while on "rangermedia" you'll be lucky to get more than 3 and most of those will be inane adolescent rants which invariably end up in someone accused of being a 'bead-rattling tim paedophile' - one I read the other day had posters wishing a 9 year had his legs broken because he scored a goal against a Rangers youth team.
I didn't know until I read this thread that Celtic fans had a history of claiming establishment conspiracies against them but from reading the coverage of this story I have been genuinely amazed how the media have been giving an easy ride to the various players in the Rangers saga. A bigger dose of gangsters, chancers, gombeens, conmen, free-loaders, idiots and outright psychopaths has never to my knowledge ever blighted this earth but the Scottish media seems oblivious to them all - as do their politicians.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 10, 2012, 09:31:43 AM
That is both horrendously arrogant, and utter shite.
The average Scot is well aware of what bigotry is - it's not above us, it's beneath us. We're better than that, and we loathe the Old Firm for dragging us down.
so the problems in glasgow/scotland/britain are of bigotry origins as opposed to societal....
pray tell me what 'religion' do the aberdonians fight under - or milwall or west ham...
I find your respones a tad hypocritical given that you have admitted that aberden 'had' (yeah had ::)!!) a violent group that just wanted to fight!
but you are giving it loads about Irish rebel songs that are no longer part of the framwork in Celtic park - but these you say are current and use as part of your stick, but the aberdeen casuals are in the pas so cannt be referenced?
come off it.
scotland has big problems like the rest of britain and its way deeper than bigotry.
if Celtic and Rangers were wiped of the planet, there would still be massive problems in scotland with violence and tribalism- would you not agree?
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 10, 2012, 11:46:00 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 10, 2012, 12:13:30 AM
Lda your opinion is valid as a jock and resident obv. As a Celtic fan traveling over for games since 1995 I've seen a fair bit and my opinion is obv one as a Celtic fan.i think that's a stereotype that non Glaswegians want to portray alright but Celtic clubs support and employees over the years would point to it being more inclusive, non sectarian and not bigoted - though there were pockets of these.
I don't fully grasp you 'explanations' above but it doesn't matter really.
Songs glorifying the IRA - that's a whole other debate whether songs about the old IRA are the same etc etc
But the point really is about what songs glorified blowing people up?
Ok there are none.
I think you were using deliberate OTT language as many Celtic detractors are wont to do in order to make it look Like Celtic fans are al queda or something.
These songs have been banned ( despite the majority being harmless and about the deaths of Irish martyrs and not them killing anyone!!!) and thus apart from the odd time at an away match ( none at the one I attended last year) rebel songs are no longer heard at Celtic park - are there any more allegations you want me to debunk?
Look I know many of you dislike Celtic maybe hate them but plenty of jocko lads I've met from Dundee , hibs, Aberdeen , kilmarnock and dunfermeline all don't like the celts - but they hate rangers and reckon there is a difference between the two with Celtic being a lot better.
Maybe they ere just all being nice. Either way IMO you are over egging it - and your examples are mythbusted
"Mythbusted" ;D ;D.
I agree that Celtic as a club and their support in general are preferable to Rangers. The sectarian problem at Ibrox is without doubt worse that at Parkhead. But really being less bigoted than Glasgow Rangers is hardly something to crow about it is it ;) As for suggesting Celtic fans and employees would say their club is inclusive what do you think they are going to say? Mythbusting indeed.
I really can't be bothered with another debate about IRA songs but Celtic fans have sung songs in praise of the Provisional IRA this season. Perhaps you believe the PIRA were always a fine and upstanding organisation, and fair enough if you do, that's not the issue here, but the facts are that they did blow people up, plenty of innocent people, and indulged in sectarian killings. Anybody singing in support of that organisation is singing in support of what they did. Very simple really. I quite agree with you that these songs - and the add ons - and the ones about there soon being no protestants, or f*ck John Knox, are certainly not as frequest as they once were. But they can still be heard.
I wasn't deliberately over egging anything. Main Street had offered an opinion on why the majority of Scottish football fans disliked the Old Firm. I simply offered alternative - and in my opinion more realistic - reasons. I didn't expect you to like or agree with them as I know from previous debates that your an apologist for even the dregs of the Celtic support. Nonetheless, the reasons I gave are behind the widespread dislike of the Old Firm. Follow my advice and visit a few Scottish football forums, it won't take long, and you will see some genuine "mythbusting". Some proper research, rather than talking to a few "Jocko lads", would be of great benefit to you.
And I will say again that I never did and never will suggest the tricolour is sectarian. That is a point that Lynchbhoy helpfully levelled against me by twisting an earlier post. I have a tricolour here in the house that I bought on one of many trips to visit family in Ireland. I am very proud of my Irish links and of the flag. Strangely enough I still didn't feel the need to take the flag to the football match I attended today, or indeed sing any songs about Irish (or Scottish) politics whilst at the game.
Regarding a point made by Main Street I think it would be a positive thing if more of the Irish diaspora in Scotland did indeed take a greater interest in their heritage. The language perhaps, music, the long and varied history of the country, the GAA itself (I know from personal experience the difficulties in getting Scots born of Irish heritage involved in the GAA over here, the vast majority couldn't give a sh*t and 2nd/3rd generation involvement is very poor compared to say Engand) , rather than focussing so strongly on the political struggle of the previous century or so, and expressing even that very narrow view of Ireland soley through support of a football club.
no problem. Im not going to fully agree on a lot of that and think you have twisted some of the stuff I've said int he past for your reply. But thats opinions and neither really matter.
I will point out that the part about the Tricolour is in response to how I saw your post - thats how it read to me at least and obv Main Street also.
Maybe I was being pedantic about your notion that the songs referenced 'bombing'. But again one mans killer is another mans fredom fighter so I dont expect you to understand that either - or the discussion regarding the historical timleine surrounding the crafting of Irish rebel songs.
Celtic may be better than rangers (or some of them) or maybe not - but imo there is a whole lot more to scotish violence (and all the other clubs) and their societal problems than plain bigotry.
any culture that has deep fried mars bars on the menu at a restaurant has to have serious questions levelled at it (thats a bit of an attempt at humour in case you go mad about poking fun at the food in jockoland!)
one last thing - I cant resist this...
you could be right, I may know nothing about soccer - but 'charlie mulgrew' !!!
;)
(though imo he still isnt great but....) :D
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 10, 2012, 09:35:34 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 10, 2012, 08:41:17 AM
It's sad when the flying of the tricolour at Celtic Park is regarded as a bigoted act, a deliberate attempt to play the sectarian card, rather than what it is, a club staying true to its founding ethos, Scottish and Irish.
No-one has suggested it it. Its a flag in celtic colours, flown at celtic games.
The songs glorifying murderers leave a sour note. And despite the Kevin Lynch players on here trying to deflect and deny it, the celtic happily sings songs in praise of the provos.
well he might not have meant it but LDA did mention the Irish Flag being flown in a manner that made it look like he was referencing this was some kind of bigotry symbol - though It seems he has clarified that this was not what was meant (though I still dont understnad why he would have mentioned it in the first instance then!)
please point out what song glorifies murderers.
It was also mentioned earlier that there was a song about 'blowing people up' - again I would like to find out what song this is - I kow a few rebel songs but not all the words and I'd like to know more here...
also what point are you making or trying to make by saying this 'Kevin Lynch players' - is there any particular reason why you point this out?
I have to admit that I find the fact that you give a fiddlers about the songs let alone them leaving you feeling perturbed or even sour a bit strange.
rule britania, gstq or the myriads of rangers songs dont bother me at all. In fact - and I have said so on here before- I quite like the tune of the sash. its just they havent a note in their heads when they sing it and ruin it !
you are very easy to offend perhaps? or do you just take offence to imporve your point?
Quote from: Ulick on March 11, 2012, 02:00:37 AM
On a cultural level the contrast is amusing. Okay, I'm a fenian, so I'm going to be biased. I've never been to a soccer game and my only experience of soccer culture outside Ireland is the last couple of weeks on the "kerrydalestreet" and "rangermedia" forums. However, the cultural differences between the two boards is a bit mad. For example on "kerrydalestreet", swearing and cursing is banned while on "rangermedia" you'd do well to get through a post without someone f**king your sister, mother or daughter. "kerrydalestreet" has 'jelly and ice-cream', "rangermedia" has 'vodka and charlie'. "kerrydalestreet" threads will usually run to 20 or 30 pages of discussion while on "rangermedia" you'll be lucky to get more than 3 and most of those will be inane adolescent rants which invariably end up in someone accused of being a 'bead-rattling tim paedophile' - one I read the other day had posters wishing a 9 year had his legs broken because he scored a goal against a Rangers youth team.
Jaysus you can't compare forums like that. I could easily find a juvenile Spurs forum and compare it to a mature Arsenal forum. And then do the opposite if I wanted. I'm sure there are some rangermedia versions of Celtic persuasion and I'd imagine you can find a decent Rangers forum too if you wanted to.
The rangersmedia website does not look to be a juvenile affair.
I looked at the Kerrydalestreet, 'The Final Generic hun (1873) Ltd Thread', which was started when Rangers went into Admin on Feb 13th, in a day or so it had reached 600 pages, finally topped 2000 pages with 3.6m views.
Not claiming my comparison is scientific or even has any value, the contrast just amuses me. Those seem to be the two main boards that are open to the public and they each reference the other. Following the same topics of each board does give a bit of an insight to where they're each coming from, though it does have to be said for humour, satire and depth of discussion 'kerrydalestreet' wins hands down.
Just tried kerrydalestreet.
First thread:
Smelly hun bastards get them sacked.
The five horsemen of the apocalypse; Death, Famine, Conquest, War and a fat c**t in an XXXXXL hun top.
So I'd imagine the swearing and cursing ban is a bit lax
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 10, 2012, 05:01:04 PM
Its a rare celtic fan that sings about land reform.
The Fields of Athenry???
Remember any contraversy when it first gained popularity with Celtic fans in the mid 90's and sung at Celtic Park around then
'condemned by football commentator Gerry McNee as a song sung for sectarian reasons solely to wind up opposing Rangers fans. "I don't have anything against the song itself. It's just used for all the wrong reasons. Until both Celtic and Rangers can dump the baggage of 300 years ago there will be no movement forward," says the broadcaster.McNee's comments are typical of those who have the '2 shítty sides of the same coin attitude', when it comes to Celtic matters.
I think we can clearly see that the ignorant bufoon here, is McNee himself.
I would not quite put you on the same shelf with McNee, but don't provoke me ;D
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 10, 2012, 11:46:00 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 10, 2012, 12:13:30 AM
Lda your opinion is valid as a jock and resident obv. As a Celtic fan traveling over for games since 1995 I've seen a fair bit and my opinion is obv one as a Celtic fan.i think that's a stereotype that non Glaswegians want to portray alright but Celtic clubs support and employees over the years would point to it being more inclusive, non sectarian and not bigoted - though there were pockets of these.
I don't fully grasp you 'explanations' above but it doesn't matter really.
Songs glorifying the IRA - that's a whole other debate whether songs about the old IRA are the same etc etc
But the point really is about what songs glorified blowing people up?
Ok there are none.
I think you were using deliberate OTT language as many Celtic detractors are wont to do in order to make it look Like Celtic fans are al queda or something.
These songs have been banned ( despite the majority being harmless and about the deaths of Irish martyrs and not them killing anyone!!!) and thus apart from the odd time at an away match ( none at the one I attended last year) rebel songs are no longer heard at Celtic park - are there any more allegations you want me to debunk?
Look I know many of you dislike Celtic maybe hate them but plenty of jocko lads I've met from Dundee , hibs, Aberdeen , kilmarnock and dunfermeline all don't like the celts - but they hate rangers and reckon there is a difference between the two with Celtic being a lot better.
Maybe they ere just all being nice. Either way IMO you are over egging it - and your examples are mythbusted
"Mythbusted" ;D ;D.
I agree that Celtic as a club and their support in general are preferable to Rangers. The sectarian problem at Ibrox is without doubt worse that at Parkhead. But really being less bigoted than Glasgow Rangers is hardly something to crow about it is it ;) As for suggesting Celtic fans and employees would say their club is inclusive what do you think they are going to say? Mythbusting indeed.
I really can't be bothered with another debate about IRA songs but Celtic fans have sung songs in praise of the Provisional IRA this season. Perhaps you believe the PIRA were always a fine and upstanding organisation, and fair enough if you do, that's not the issue here, but the facts are that they did blow people up, plenty of innocent people, and indulged in sectarian killings. Anybody singing in support of that organisation is singing in support of what they did. Very simple really. I quite agree with you that these songs - and the add ons - and the ones about there soon being no protestants, or f*ck John Knox, are certainly not as frequest as they once were. But they can still be heard.
I wasn't deliberately over egging anything. Main Street had offered an opinion on why the majority of Scottish football fans disliked the Old Firm. I simply offered alternative - and in my opinion more realistic - reasons. I didn't expect you to like or agree with them as I know from previous debates that your an apologist for even the dregs of the Celtic support. Nonetheless, the reasons I gave are behind the widespread dislike of the Old Firm. Follow my advice and visit a few Scottish football forums, it won't take long, and you will see some genuine "mythbusting". Some proper research, rather than talking to a few "Jocko lads", would be of great benefit to you.
And I will say again that I never did and never will suggest the tricolour is sectarian. That is a point that Lynchbhoy helpfully levelled against me by twisting an earlier post. I have a tricolour here in the house that I bought on one of many trips to visit family in Ireland. I am very proud of my Irish links and of the flag. Strangely enough I still didn't feel the need to take the flag to the football match I attended today, or indeed sing any songs about Irish (or Scottish) politics whilst at the game.
Regarding a point made by Main Street I think it would be a positive thing if more of the Irish diaspora in Scotland did indeed take a greater interest in their heritage. The language perhaps, music, the long and varied history of the country, the GAA itself (I know from personal experience the difficulties in getting Scots born of Irish heritage involved in the GAA over here, the vast majority couldn't give a sh*t and 2nd/3rd generation involvement is very poor compared to say Engand) , rather than focussing so strongly on the political struggle of the previous century or so, and expressing even that very narrow view of Ireland soley through support of a football club.
Possibly the tricolour didn't work and the orange doesn't mean anything. An awful lot of people say the flag is green and gold.
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 11, 2012, 09:00:53 PM
I'd say it's more the case that "green, white & gold" rolls off the tongue more easily than "green, white and orange".
I think there's more to it than that. The flag was idealistic and the reality never lived up to the idealism.
How many Orangepeople identify with the tricolour? It is supposed to be their flag too.
Quote from: seafoid on March 11, 2012, 09:49:02 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 11, 2012, 09:00:53 PM
I'd say it's more the case that "green, white & gold" rolls off the tongue more easily than "green, white and orange".
I think there's more to it than that. The flag was idealistic and the reality never lived up to the idealism.
How many Orangepeople identify with the tricolour? It is supposed to be their flag too.
The "Green, White and Gold" brigade always seemed to me to be the domain of 6 county folk, conservative Catholics and the ill-informed.
Quote from: Ulick on March 11, 2012, 02:00:37 AM
Dunno, I'm finding the whole thing fascinating on a number of levels. I've never really took an interest in soccer although there's pictures about of me wearing the hoops as a child. In fairness I can claim a tenuous link through my grandfather who lined out for them in the '20's before returning home as a founder member and player for the green and white hoops of the Highmoss Sarsfields. Always wondered if there was a link between the skips.
Anyhow, from a geeky point of view, the rangerstaxcase blog exemplifies the value of crowdsourced investigative journalism. Not only did the bloggers and commenters "pull down the facade at Rangers” exposing the greed and corruption, but also the shear lunacy of the 'win at all costs mentality' of professional soccer. From what I've read, Rangers had a number of opportunities over the past decade to rein in the spending and get themselves on an even keel but they choose instead to spend millions more and gamble on European glory. They've bankrupted themselves in an attempt to buy bragging rights over their neighbours. Crazy. No notion of fairness or sportsmanship exist is this game, it's not even about winning, it's about dominating all around you. If the GAA ever goes professional, I'll cease to me a member the same day.
On a cultural level the contrast is amusing. Okay, I'm a fenian, so I'm going to be biased. I've never been to a soccer game and my only experience of soccer culture outside Ireland is the last couple of weeks on the "kerrydalestreet" and "rangermedia" forums. However, the cultural differences between the two boards is a bit mad. For example on "kerrydalestreet", swearing and cursing is banned while on "rangermedia" you'd do well to get through a post without someone f**king your sister, mother or daughter. "kerrydalestreet" has 'jelly and ice-cream', "rangermedia" has 'vodka and charlie'. "kerrydalestreet" threads will usually run to 20 or 30 pages of discussion while on "rangermedia" you'll be lucky to get more than 3 and most of those will be inane adolescent rants which invariably end up in someone accused of being a 'bead-rattling tim paedophile' - one I read the other day had posters wishing a 9 year had his legs broken because he scored a goal against a Rangers youth team.
I didn't know until I read this thread that Celtic fans had a history of claiming establishment conspiracies against them but from reading the coverage of this story I have been genuinely amazed how the media have been giving an easy ride to the various players in the Rangers saga. A bigger dose of gangsters, chancers, gombeens, conmen, free-loaders, idiots and outright psychopaths has never to my knowledge ever blighted this earth but the Scottish media seems oblivious to them all - as do their politicians.
Excellant post
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 11, 2012, 09:55:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 11, 2012, 09:49:02 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 11, 2012, 09:00:53 PM
I'd say it's more the case that "green, white & gold" rolls off the tongue more easily than "green, white and orange".
I think there's more to it than that. The flag was idealistic and the reality never lived up to the idealism.
How many Orangepeople identify with the tricolour? It is supposed to be their flag too.
The "Green, White and Gold" brigade always seemed to me to be the domain of 6 county folk, conservative Catholics and the ill-informed.
plus offaly people
What is Lennon going on about the media trying to drag him and Celtic players into the Rangers in Administration issue?
What has been said?
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 11, 2012, 09:55:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 11, 2012, 09:49:02 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 11, 2012, 09:00:53 PM
I'd say it's more the case that "green, white & gold" rolls off the tongue more easily than "green, white and orange".
I think there's more to it than that. The flag was idealistic and the reality never lived up to the idealism.
How many Orangepeople identify with the tricolour? It is supposed to be their flag too.
The "Green, White and Gold" brigade always seemed to me to be the domain of 6 county folk, conservative Catholics and the ill-informed.
You are one complete bollocks.
Quote from: johnneycool on March 12, 2012, 11:24:48 AM
What is Lennon going on about the media trying to drag him and Celtic players into the Rangers in Administration issue?
What has been said?
What has been said by Celtic fc and Lennon re Rangers going into administration is banal, how it was twisted around by certain journalists (the 'two shítty sides of the same coin' advocates) and media outlets to make it look radically different, is another matter. So it's simple for Lennon, he will avoid the media for now, because inevitably every interview will skip over the football and rush to questions about Rangers' demise.
Any examples?
Quote from: haranguerer on March 12, 2012, 01:32:50 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 11, 2012, 09:55:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 11, 2012, 09:49:02 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 11, 2012, 09:00:53 PM
I'd say it's more the case that "green, white & gold" rolls off the tongue more easily than "green, white and orange".
I think there's more to it than that. The flag was idealistic and the reality never lived up to the idealism.
How many Orangepeople identify with the tricolour? It is supposed to be their flag too.
The "Green, White and Gold" brigade always seemed to me to be the domain of 6 county folk, conservative Catholics and the ill-informed.
You are one complete bollocks.
I assume you are merely reiterating something you knew long ago, and that it hasn't taken you until now to realise this?!
Quote from: ONeill on March 12, 2012, 05:53:46 PM
Any examples?
From that quality discussion board, Kerrydale Street, there is a link to a Neil Lennon interview
http://soundcloud.com/celticresearch/lenny-radio-scotland/s-ukpjT (http://soundcloud.com/celticresearch/lenny-radio-scotland/s-ukpjT)
he did for BBCRS where Lennon tried to articulate as best he can, his stance and his reason for the press conference boycott.
Boycott being old rebel tactic from Fenian times, also rooted in the Celtic cultural ethos ;D
Traynor from the BBCRS was named by Lennon
Here is one (highly disputed by Celtic) earlier article by Traynor and Jackson published by the Record
Feb 28 2012 Exclusive by James Traynor and Keith Jackson
THE Old Firm are locked in a cash feud after it emerged Celtic have reneged on a deal to hand over a £300,000 advance on tickets for next month's derby clash.
And Record Sport understands anxious Ibrox staff fear the move may force more job cuts at their stricken club at a time when administrators are trying to unearth enough money to keep the business running.
We revealed on December 6 how Celtic were breaking with tradition by demanding Rangers pay up front for their fans' tickets for the derby match at Parkhead at Christmas.
With the Ibrox finances unravelling under the disgraced Craig Whyte regime, Celtic feared they might be left out of pocket if Rangers went into administration.
Whyte reluctantly cobbled together the cash to avoid having an 8000-strong travelling support locked out of the biggest fixture of the festive period.
And according to sources, a verbal agreement was reached between the clubs that Celtic would also pay up front before their second visit of the season to Ibrox on March 25.
But last night that deal appeared to have broken down, just as Rangers' need for cash was becoming even more desperate.
The Parkhead club are due to receive 7300 tickets for Ibrox with their fans set to stump up £42-a-head for the pleasure of celebrating this season's title cakewalk at the home of their
bitter rivals.
That adds up to a sum of just over £300,000 and it's money Rangers need to get their hands on as quickly as possible.
Administrators Duff and Phelps are still trying to track down the missing millions from Whyte's £24.4m deal with Ticketus as they attempt to find enough money to cover next month's wage bill. And, as if the financial carnage at Ibrox was not already chaotic enough, the club was yesterday hit with a £50,000 fine from the PLUS Market due to Whyte's failure to disclose his seven-year directorship ban.
Head administrator Paul Clark is expected to hold a further round of crisis talks with manager Ally McCoist today as the club braces itself for even more bad news.
The fear among players and staff is that the axe is likely to fall tomorrow unless more funds are found immediately to cover the running costs.
McCoist, though, despite the latest in a long line of misinformed reports in Whyte's pet paper, the Scottish Sun, will refuse to select which players stay and which go.
Instead, the manager will attempt to broker a deal to save jobs by slashing his own salary and asking his first-team squad to do the same to help the club survive without the need for job losses.
Rangers had hoped the £300,000 from Celtic would help tide them over but the administrators will have to find cash from elsewhere if swingeing cuts are to be avoided.
Alex Thomson from Channel 4 News picking up on the story...
The dangers of Rangers tax shambles
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/dangers-rangers-tax-shambles/850
Monday 12 March 2012 6:33 pm
Alex Thomson
Last week I asked for non-Rangers and Celtic fans in Scotland to give me their observations on the current Ibrox detox. Several hundred emails later, I surface to bring you the first of a series of blogs.
First of all, a big thank you for the hundreds of emails and tweets. It is clear that very few Scottish football fans are of the Ahmedinejad tendency – almost nobody wishes to see Rangers "wiped off the map". But when it does come to proper and fitting punishment, a strong consensus exists, of which more later.
What comes through strongly is the belief that the Rangers debacle is a genuine opportunity to rebuild Scottish football on a more interesting and fairer model. Ramsey spoke for almost everyone when he wrote: "Most see this as the perfect opportunity to better the league and the game as a whole." A chance to recreate genuine competition in the SPL and consider wider matters beyond the "the self-interest of not just the old firm but the entire SPL."
The key observation, though, is that the current focus on owner Craig Whyte and declaration of his not being "fit and proper" to run a football club is missing the point.
As non-Old Firm fans see it, the decade or more long practice at Rangers of allegedly paying players one amount for tax purposes, but another larger amount to save around £45m on tax via so-called employee benefit trusts, began way before Whyte. Legal or illegal. A least one former director has publically confirmed this too.
Rosaleen said: "It all stemmed from before Whyte's arrival, and yet nobody up here from the media is doing any serious investigating beyond him!"
Though that doesn't square with recent significant revelations in both the Sun and Mail shedding light on Rangers' alleged practice of paying stars one sum, but telling the authorities they were paying another, to save millions in tax. We await judgement from a tax tribunal as to whether or not this practice was legal. That this actually happened is not apparently in dispute, it is the legality that is under question.
And here we get to a huge groundswell of opinion from aggrieved fans beyond the Glasgow cauldron (pace Partick Thistle). Because the rules clearly state that you have to tell the authorities full details of player contracts or they are ineligible. If Rangers did not do this – and it is still an "if" pending that tribunal – a decade of silverware, championships and glory is under possible forfeit. The stakes could not be higher.
If that is the case, Tony writes: "In effect Rangers have fielded many players over many years in all competitions who were ineligible to play. This is confirmed by former Rangers director Hugh Adam last week and is subject to a current commission of inquiry by the Scottish Premier League."
And it was also confirmed by Mr Adam, who told the Mail the practice had gone on for longer than a decade and predated the SPL.
What many fans cannot understand, though, is how key individuals in the game were serving both as directors of Rangers FC and on the Scottish FA and SPL. The job of directors – beyond trotting along to Ibrox and sitting in the box in a suit – is to oversee proper governance of the football club.
Campbell Ogilvie, for instance, is current president of the SFA and was not only a director of Rangers during the period under investigation, but also company secretary of the club. It was his job to know about contractual arrangements with players.
So far Mr Ogilvie has not stood aside from his current role whilst the SPL investigation is under way. How many such contracts were signed? How many did he see? Did he know about them at all? If he did, did he sanction them being signed off? If he didn't – why wasn't he doing his job? Is there not a conflict of interest in his current position?
We are currently putting these and other questions to Mr Ogilvie via the SFA, but as things stand we are told he is not doing any interviews but is "distancing himself from the current investigations". When we asked if he has formally stood aside, pending the outcome of the investigation, we were told he has not.
As one fan put it: "If it is held to be true that Rangers, in implementing an unlawful tax evasion scam on a huge scale, fielded ineligible payers, whilst those responsible were serving as directors of the regulatory and licensing bodies, we can say with certainty that the game of football in Scotland has been corrupt for 15 years or so."
One Clydebank supporter put it thus: "I am now reading that I've been ploughing my hard-earned cash into a league that has effectively been rigged in favour of one big side ... but now I'm expected to just move on."
This is the key area fans want some answers about and where – right or wrong – they feel they are being short-changed by what they see – time and time again – as an over-cosy relationship between the Old Firm, the SFA and SPL, and the Glasgow media.
One oft-repeated refrain is: "The media in Glasgow keep telling us how much Scottish football needs Rangers – what they mean is how much they need Rangers, not Scottish football."
Nobody likes a cheat in sport. And here it's claimed we have one in the shape of the loudest, biggest club with what some see as a tawdry history of bigotry, violent fans and a frankly supremacist culture. So when the bully and the cheat gets his come-uppance, there will be some vitriol.
If anything, though, I was surprised by the considered responses most made to Rangers' implosion.
But of course there's real anger out there: "We have been duped ... for 15 years," wrote one fan, "and we are now sinking the boot into the perpetrators of the deceit. They have had a few days of pain. We've suffered nearly two decades. To hell with them and all who support them or feel sorry for them. They are cheats, simple as that."
Well, it is for the HMRC and the tribunal process to decide if Rangers FC was in fact and law a criminal and cheating organisation in the period under examination. But we can say there's already evidence starting to emerge in public to support that as yet unproven allegation.
With the clock ticking at Ibrox, fans across Scotland are not short of ideas about what should happen. But as I said, remarkably few want Rangers wiped from the face of the earth. They just want existing rules implemented – a near-revolutionary suggestion, it would seem, given the current unfolding saga at the top of the Scottish game.
Coming up next: Crime and Punishment – What to do with Rangers Football Club; should they be found guilty; and is liquidation the only way out?
Follow @alextomo on Twitter.
More from @alextomo on Twitter today:
alex thomson (@alextomo)
13/03/2012 10:45
#rangers SFA say President Campbell Ogilvie is 'distancing himself from the current Rangers investigation' but did not explain how.
alex thomson (@alextomo)
13/03/2012 10:45
SFA told #c4news Campbell Ogilvie 'did not know' about EBT contract when he was Rangers FC secretary?
alex thomson (@alextomo)
13/03/2012 10:46
When we asked why not - thaty was his job - SFA said they didn't know.
alex thomson (@alextomo)
13/03/2012 10:47
SFA say their President and fmr Ranger secretary Campbell Ogilvie will not be interviewed by c4news about what he knew...
alex thomson (@alextomo)
13/03/2012 10:47
SFA say their President Campbell Ogilvie 'has no plans to stand aside from his job pending current Rangers probes...
alex thomson (@alextomo)
13/03/2012 10:59
Interesting SFA have just accused me of 'lying', 'pig-headedness' and then put the phone down mid-conversation....
alex thomson (@alextomo)
13/03/2012 11:00
all because I put their own statement back to them that Campbell Ogilvie denied knowing about EBTs at Rangers...
alex thomson (@alextomo)
13/03/2012 11:00
And suggested there might be a perceived conflict of interest in his current position until the investigations are complete
Quote from: Main Street on March 11, 2012, 12:11:44 PM
I would not quite put you on the same shelf with McNee, but don't provoke me ;D
I'll take offence to that.
I'm a
far better journalist. :P
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 11, 2012, 10:47:17 AM
if Celtic and Rangers were wiped of the planet, there would still be massive problems in scotland with violence and tribalism- would you not agree?
They wouldn't be any where near as severe. it costs the police £2.4 million to police the old firm fixture. Domestic violence increases massively around the fixture.
The Old Firm aren't independent of Scotland's social problems, rather, they act as an intensifier and mulitplier by throwing extra bigotry and tribalism into areas where poverty, alcoholism etc are already rife.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 11, 2012, 11:02:00 AM
also what point are you making or trying to make by saying this 'Kevin Lynch players' - is there any particular reason why you point this out?
The two posters identiying themselves as Kevin Lynch players have shown themselves to be ignorant on Scottish football, and Scotland in general.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 13, 2012, 03:04:36 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 11, 2012, 11:02:00 AM
also what point are you making or trying to make by saying this 'Kevin Lynch players' - is there any particular reason why you point this out?
The two posters identiying themselves as Kevin Lynch players have shown themselves to be ignorant on Scottish football, and Scotland in general.
(http://www.indiatalkies.com/images/can-of-worms733s.jpg)
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 13, 2012, 03:02:31 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 11, 2012, 10:47:17 AM
if Celtic and Rangers were wiped of the planet, there would still be massive problems in scotland with violence and tribalism- would you not agree?
They wouldn't be any where near as severe. it costs the police £2.4 million to police the old firm fixture. Domestic violence increases massively around the fixture.
The Old Firm aren't independent of Scotland's social problems, rather, they act as an intensifier and mulitplier by throwing extra bigotry and tribalism into areas where poverty, alcoholism etc are already rife.
What a load of bull (or sheep)!
I think we can take it, that you act as intensifier and multiplier to some of the most banal and lazy analysis of what constitutes bigotry and tribalism.
And no wonder, you really can't climb an inch away from your own prejudices.
Quote from: Nally Stand on March 12, 2012, 06:25:42 PM
Quote from: haranguerer on March 12, 2012, 01:32:50 PM
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 11, 2012, 09:55:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 11, 2012, 09:49:02 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 11, 2012, 09:00:53 PM
I'd say it's more the case that "green, white & gold" rolls off the tongue more easily than "green, white and orange".
I think there's more to it than that. The flag was idealistic and the reality never lived up to the idealism.
How many Orangepeople identify with the tricolour? It is supposed to be their flag too.
The "Green, White and Gold" brigade always seemed to me to be the domain of 6 county folk, conservative Catholics and the ill-informed.
You are one complete bollocks.
I assume you are merely reiterating something you knew long ago, and that it hasn't taken you until now to realise this?!
Harangeurer just seen your response, it made me laugh ;D
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 13, 2012, 03:02:31 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 11, 2012, 10:47:17 AM
if Celtic and Rangers were wiped of the planet, there would still be massive problems in scotland with violence and tribalism- would you not agree?
They wouldn't be any where near as severe. it costs the police £2.4 million to police the old firm fixture. Domestic violence increases massively around the fixture.
The Old Firm aren't independent of Scotland's social problems, rather, they act as an intensifier and mulitplier by throwing extra bigotry and tribalism into areas where poverty, alcoholism etc are already rife.
breaking news- the heroin problem in the schemes of edinburgh have been caused by two football clubs in glasgow, these clubs are known as the old firm, it is also alledged they are directly responsible for HIV, unempolyment and large swathes of the population running around drinking from purple tins.
Would you`s hurry the f**k on and die ya crowd of sc**bag bastards
Admit it....... you'd be like a dog without a bone
The clear accountable fact of history in Scotland, is that Celtic fc has been there as a focal point for Irish and Irish/Scottish ethnic groups and has had a immeasurable positive effect in raising the dignity of the diaspora. It may not be a crime to be Irish in Scotland, neither is discrimination a significant social factor these days, however it surely is regarded as a lower form of humankind to be Irish, it's something to taunt, to mock. Go to Aberdeen, the natives taunt the Celts with 'you're in the wrong country'.
Football is just another place where that hatred/ mocking ignorance from Scots towards Irish ethnicity, manifests itself.
In the mainstream of Scottish media opinion, this is what passes for intelligent comment,
"The problem with a large section of the Celtic support is that they do not think of themselves as Scots. They will tell you that they are Irish or Scots-Irish, whatever that's supposed to be."
'this fixation with Ireland which so many Scots have, makes my blood boil.'
When Scotland played Ireland 7 or 8 years ago at Hamden pk, how the redkneck Scottish bumpkins were outraged by the sight/sound of thousands of native Scots supporting Ireland.
Quite simply it boils down to one main prejudice held by the more primitive Scots
against those who have Irish ethnicity in Scotland or a Scots/Irish identity.
When that Celtic fan accepted that UEFA award for the supporters, he said something to the effect that 'all over Europe we are welcomed, yet at home everywhere we go its hostile, every expression/ celebration of our culture, our identity, is seen as a threat, even a sectarian threat.'
Yeah, maybe those all those Celts should keep quiet about their Irishness. How dare they sing old rebel folk songs, sing the 'soldiers song', wave the tricolour ::)
Even in Lisbon 1967, those Celtic hordes were waving the tricolour, a perceived blight on many a scottish tv screen ;D
So, ya know this fighting fund donation thing that the huns are giving money to save the club? Well apparently, quite a few of them have donated their money to the wrong paypal account. They were suppose to be sending the money to @thebluenose.co.uk but instead they sent the money to @bluenose.co.uk which is a company that hires out clowns
They donated their money to clowns
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Quote from: Forever Green on March 14, 2012, 12:05:50 AM
So, ya know this fighting fund donation thing that the huns are giving money to save the club? Well apparently, quite a few of them have donated their money to the wrong paypal account. They were suppose to be sending the money to @thebluenose.co.uk but instead they sent the money to @bluenose.co.uk which is a company that hires out clowns
They donated their money to clowns
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Still better than Clowen.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 03:57:17 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 09, 2012, 03:53:07 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 09, 2012, 03:18:33 PM
- what songs celebrate blowing people up- I dont know too many and certainly never heard them sung at CP.
Really? You've never heard any "ooh, aah, up the 'RA" chants from Celtic fans?
Old Firm supporters are renowned for their selective hearing. Your average celtic fan can hear the word fenian whispered from over 500yds away but not hear Sean South* being given full volume in the stadium they're standing in.
*I know this song doesn't celebrate blowing people up, it celebrates a British Army victory :P
RUC actually.
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on March 11, 2012, 09:55:43 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 11, 2012, 09:49:02 PM
Quote from: Fionntamhnach on March 11, 2012, 09:00:53 PM
I'd say it's more the case that "green, white & gold" rolls off the tongue more easily than "green, white and orange".
I think there's more to it than that. The flag was idealistic and the reality never lived up to the idealism.
How many Orangepeople identify with the tricolour? It is supposed to be their flag too.
The "Green, White and Gold" brigade always seemed to me to be the domain of 6 county folk, conservative Catholics and the ill-informed.
Ballocks, no one with any sense of history or their nationality would say green white and gold...accept perhaps Offaly folk.
Quote from: Main Street on March 14, 2012, 12:01:47 AM
The clear accountable fact of history in Scotland, is that Celtic fc has been there as a focal point for Irish and Irish/Scottish ethnic groups and has had a immeasurable positive effect in raising the dignity of the diaspora. It may not be a crime to be Irish in Scotland, neither is discrimination a significant social factor these days, however it surely is regarded as a lower form of humankind to be Irish, it's something to taunt, to mock. Go to Aberdeen, the natives taunt the Celts with 'you're in the wrong country'.
Football is just another place where that hatred/ mocking ignorance from Scots towards Irish ethnicity, manifests itself.
In the mainstream of Scottish media opinion, this is what passes for intelligent comment,
"The problem with a large section of the Celtic support is that they do not think of themselves as Scots. They will tell you that they are Irish or Scots-Irish, whatever that's supposed to be."
'this fixation with Ireland which so many Scots have, makes my blood boil.'
When Scotland played Ireland 7 or 8 years ago at Hamden pk, how the redkneck Scottish bumpkins were outraged by the sight/sound of thousands of native Scots supporting Ireland.
Quite simply it boils down to one main prejudice held by the more primitive Scots
against those who have Irish ethnicity in Scotland or a Scots/Irish identity.
When that Celtic fan accepted that UEFA award for the supporters, he said something to the effect that 'all over Europe we are welcomed, yet at home everywhere we go its hostile, every expression/ celebration of our culture, our identity, is seen as a threat, even a sectarian threat.'
Yeah, maybe those all those Celts should keep quiet about their Irishness. How dare they sing old rebel folk songs, sing the 'soldiers song', wave the tricolour ::)
Even in Lisbon 1967, those Celtic hordes were waving the tricolour, a perceived blight on many a scottish tv screen ;D
excellent post, keep them coming main street.
Quote from: Main Street on March 14, 2012, 12:01:47 AM
The clear accountable fact of history in Scotland, is that Celtic fc has been there as a focal point for Irish and Irish/Scottish ethnic groups and has had a immeasurable positive effect in raising the dignity of the diaspora. It may not be a crime to be Irish in Scotland, neither is discrimination a significant social factor these days, however it surely is regarded as a lower form of humankind to be Irish, it's something to taunt, to mock. Go to Aberdeen, the natives taunt the Celts with 'you're in the wrong country'.
Football is just another place where that hatred/ mocking ignorance from Scots towards Irish ethnicity, manifests itself.
In the mainstream of Scottish media opinion, this is what passes for intelligent comment,
"The problem with a large section of the Celtic support is that they do not think of themselves as Scots. They will tell you that they are Irish or Scots-Irish, whatever that's supposed to be."
'this fixation with Ireland which so many Scots have, makes my blood boil.'
When Scotland played Ireland 7 or 8 years ago at Hamden pk, how the redkneck Scottish bumpkins were outraged by the sight/sound of thousands of native Scots supporting Ireland.
Quite simply it boils down to one main prejudice held by the more primitive Scots
against those who have Irish ethnicity in Scotland or a Scots/Irish identity.
When that Celtic fan accepted that UEFA award for the supporters, he said something to the effect that 'all over Europe we are welcomed, yet at home everywhere we go its hostile, every expression/ celebration of our culture, our identity, is seen as a threat, even a sectarian threat.'
Yeah, maybe those all those Celts should keep quiet about their Irishness. How dare they sing old rebel folk songs, sing the 'soldiers song', wave the tricolour ::)
Even in Lisbon 1967, those Celtic hordes were waving the tricolour, a perceived blight on many a scottish tv screen ;D
Good post, Main Street, although the reference to 'primitive Scots' is a bit OTT. Do you think it's impossible to dislike Celtic independent of an ingrained hatred of the Irish? Surely there are plenty of people whose motivation is that Celtic are part of the Old Firm and they couldn't care less about Celtic roots . . . ?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on March 11, 2012, 10:53:58 AM
no problem. Im not going to fully agree on a lot of that and think you have twisted some of the stuff I've said int he past for your reply. But thats opinions and neither really matter.
I will point out that the part about the Tricolour is in response to how I saw your post - thats how it read to me at least and obv Main Street also.
Maybe I was being pedantic about your notion that the songs referenced 'bombing'. But again one mans killer is another mans fredom fighter so I dont expect you to understand that either - or the discussion regarding the historical timleine surrounding the crafting of Irish rebel songs.
Celtic may be better than rangers (or some of them) or maybe not - but imo there is a whole lot more to scotish violence (and all the other clubs) and their societal problems than plain bigotry.
any culture that has deep fried mars bars on the menu at a restaurant has to have serious questions levelled at it (thats a bit of an attempt at humour in case you go mad about poking fun at the food in jockoland!)
one last thing - I cant resist this...
you could be right, I may know nothing about soccer - but 'charlie mulgrew' !!!
;)
(though imo he still isnt great but....) :D
I need to repeat Lynchbhoy that I never made any suggestion at all that the flag was sectarian (go back to the original post, it's clear enough) and I think Main Street only picked up on the point that because
you then asked me to explain how the flag was sectarian, when I hadn't said that in the first place!
I quite agree with you on the point about one man's freedom fighter being another's terrorist but that is completely irrelevant. I already made the point that we are not debating whether or not the IRA were terrorists or freedom fighters, but simply that Celtic fans sing songs that celebrate blowing people up, which you have now accepted. I also understand very well the timeline of Irish rebel songs. Ultimately a lot (all) of this is just being dragged way off topic. I can
assure you however that bigotry (whether you agree or not on the extent of it) is the reason that the OF are disliked by the majority of non OF Scottish football fans.
I disagree strongly with Main Street that being Irish or of Irish stock in Scotland is something for which people are mocked, or seen as a "lower form of humankind". That is certainly not my experience. I think he has something with Celtic being a focal point for the Irish in Scotland but as I have argued previously I don't think they have always been a positive focal point, and this has contributed to many of their supporters having a very narrow minded view of Ireland.
I also agree strongly with London Camanachd's post that without the OF that Scotland's bigotry issue would be nowhere near as bad. I actually don't think there is any debate on that matter - the OF have perpetuated an issue which would most likely have pretty much died away otherwise. I know plenty of lads who as kids were just football fans but when they started actually attending matches at Ibrox/Parkhead took an interest in the rest of the sh*te.
Charlie Mulgrew Lynchbhoy ;D Well I totally stand by opinion on him! A cracking left foot but weak defensively. I think I actually said that he might do well in a team like Celtic who are often dominant and where his defensive issues at full back wouldn't be tested as they were with other clubs. That allows him to concentrate on the attacking side of his game. Where I will give him and Lennon credit is for the move to centre half. Again I wouldn't trust him there if under real pressure (and he has made a few howlers when he was pressurised) but he has been effective there for Celtic. I think playing with Celtic allows him to make the most of his attributes and probably hides his weaknesses, and in that respect he has been a decent bit of business for Lennon.
More importantly however we should be laughing at Rangers on this thread - like this halfwit who really brightened up my day ;D ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pDk75Y1SZ4&feature=player_embedded
Good news, Linfield have agreed to play a friendly against Rangers to raise cash for the club. RANGERS ARE SAVED!
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17379986 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17379986)
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 14, 2012, 11:56:36 PM
More importantly however we should be laughing at Rangers on this thread - like this halfwit who really brightened up my day ;D ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pDk75Y1SZ4&feature=player_embedded
(http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/mc03steve/DEMOT1.JPG)
LDA - why did you bring up the topic of the Irish flag then - the context it was used looked to imply that it was used to be sectarian.
you still have not pointed out what songs are about blowing people up that are sung by Celtic fans.
if you think scotland would be a friendly safe place if all the Celtic/rangers fans were shipped out - then you need to have a closer look at the place.
charlie mulgrew isnt great- point was that he could have been good if strachan hadnt been so unprofessional and thrown a hissy fit. that he has been called up and played for scotland shows he has some talent - but it could have been more- so think again when saying i know nothing about soccer !
rangers will be safe. they will lose a couple of players but thats about it.
Quote from: deiseach on March 14, 2012, 11:46:30 AM
Good post, Main Street, although the reference to 'primitive Scots' is a bit OTT. Do you think it's impossible to dislike Celtic independent of an ingrained hatred of the Irish? Surely there are plenty of people whose motivation is that Celtic are part of the Old Firm and they couldn't care less about Celtic roots . . . ?
Which is more primitive, to have a deep seated reason or apparently none at all? Your post seems contradictory in an attempt to appear reasoning
Quote from: deiseach on March 14, 2012, 11:46:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 14, 2012, 12:01:47 AM
The clear accountable fact of history in Scotland, is that Celtic fc has been there as a focal point for Irish and Irish/Scottish ethnic groups and has had a immeasurable positive effect in raising the dignity of the diaspora. It may not be a crime to be Irish in Scotland, neither is discrimination a significant social factor these days, however it surely is regarded as a lower form of humankind to be Irish, it's something to taunt, to mock. Go to Aberdeen, the natives taunt the Celts with 'you're in the wrong country'.
Football is just another place where that hatred/ mocking ignorance from Scots towards Irish ethnicity, manifests itself.
In the mainstream of Scottish media opinion, this is what passes for intelligent comment,
"The problem with a large section of the Celtic support is that they do not think of themselves as Scots. They will tell you that they are Irish or Scots-Irish, whatever that's supposed to be."
'this fixation with Ireland which so many Scots have, makes my blood boil.'
When Scotland played Ireland 7 or 8 years ago at Hamden pk, how the redkneck Scottish bumpkins were outraged by the sight/sound of thousands of native Scots supporting Ireland.
Quite simply it boils down to one main prejudice held by the more primitive Scots
against those who have Irish ethnicity in Scotland or a Scots/Irish identity.
When that Celtic fan accepted that UEFA award for the supporters, he said something to the effect that 'all over Europe we are welcomed, yet at home everywhere we go its hostile, every expression/ celebration of our culture, our identity, is seen as a threat, even a sectarian threat.'
Yeah, maybe those all those Celts should keep quiet about their Irishness. How dare they sing old rebel folk songs, sing the 'soldiers song', wave the tricolour ::)
Even in Lisbon 1967, those Celtic hordes were waving the tricolour, a perceived blight on many a scottish tv screen ;D
Good post, Main Street, although the reference to 'primitive Scots' is a bit OTT
.
Thank you,
that comment was supposed to be OTT, almost 'tic (tongue in cheek) :)
QuoteDo you think it's impossible to dislike Celtic independent of an ingrained hatred of the Irish? Surely there are plenty of people whose motivation is that Celtic are part of the Old Firm and they couldn't care less about Celtic roots . . . ?
Sure, there is normal football rivalry which can have an amount of hatred. And surely there are people who don't care about Celtic roots at all.
However you wil have noted the 2 Scottish contributers here have both demonstrated an inability to discriminate between their hatred/dislike of celtic and the 'Irish thing' with their generalisations about the blight to Scottish society that is Celtic Fc
The ability to discriminate (the positive form) is an acquired maturity :)
Apart from normal rivalry hatred, there are two attitudes (imo) to consider which are also thrown into whole picture of the hatred towards Celtic fc.
The first attitude is that both Glasgow clubs are the 2 shítty sides of the same sectarian/bigoted coin' therefore equating the expressions of 'Celtic Irish bigotry' equally with that of the status quo bigotry which has roots stretching back to the 1850's towards Catholics and towards Irish ethnicity.
The second is that a focal point of the hatred against Celtic, is the Ireland thing. The Irish ethnicity as expressed in following Celtic fc, a Scot/ Irish sporting club and as football fans do, they bring the colour the songs and the flags etc and ethnicity still plays a big part. There is an utter failure shown here to discriminate between the appropriate, the colour the songs the Soldiers Song, TFoA, the Boys brigade and the tricolour flags
to that of the innapropriate tiny minority who have inserted a support for the Provos.
Instead all I hear, is 'A plague on your whole Celtic house' or if you just behaved yourself to my standards of cultural expression then I just might accept you.
Quote from: haranguerer on March 15, 2012, 11:21:47 AM
Quote from: deiseach on March 14, 2012, 11:46:30 AM
Good post, Main Street, although the reference to 'primitive Scots' is a bit OTT. Do you think it's impossible to dislike Celtic independent of an ingrained hatred of the Irish? Surely there are plenty of people whose motivation is that Celtic are part of the Old Firm and they couldn't care less about Celtic roots . . . ?
Which is more primitive, to have a deep seated reason or apparently none at all? Your post seems contradictory in an attempt to appear reasoning
Yeah, I was a little vague there. What I meant was that surely it is possible to hate Celtic in the same way that Spanish soccer supporters who do not follow Real Madrid or Barcelona hate them, simply because they're the Big Two. Main Street seems to imply that if you don't like Celtic it must be because you're anti-Irish. I've no doubt plenty of people in Scotland can't stand anything with tinge of Mick to it, but I don't think it follows that everyone who dislikes Celtic is motivated by the spirit of John Knox.
Quote from: camanchero on March 15, 2012, 10:21:12 AM
LDA - why did you bring up the topic of the Irish flag then - the context it was used looked to imply that it was used to be sectarian.
you still have not pointed out what songs are about blowing people up that are sung by Celtic fans.
if you think scotland would be a friendly safe place if all the Celtic/rangers fans were shipped out - then you need to have a closer look at the place.
charlie mulgrew isnt great- point was that he could have been good if strachan hadnt been so unprofessional and thrown a hissy fit. that he has been called up and played for scotland shows he has some talent - but it could have been more- so think again when saying i know nothing about soccer !
rangers will be safe. they will lose a couple of players but thats about it.
Why do you have two usernames? Anyway this is tiresome, there is no need for further explanation on the flag as its perfectly obvious in the initial post. Similarly there is no denying that some Celtic fans sing songs that glorify blowing people up.
As for Scotland being a safe and friendly place without the OF I made no such suggestion, rather that the OF have contributed hugely to bigotry still being an issue here. It would help if you read posts more carefully before replying and asking people to justify comments they actually haven't made.
Mulgrew is the same limited player he always was, but credit to Lennon for making the most of his talents and using him in such a way that his weaknesses are not exposed. Good management. I think its a weak case if you believe that a Scotland cap means he is talented though given some of the dross Scotland cap. Strachan had better options in his time at Celtic.
Disagree on Rangers too, they will ultimately survive or re emerge but there will be more pain than just the loss of 2 players, which has indeed already happened.
Rangers Administrators now appling to the High Court in Edinbrugh to put Rangers into administration. Hearing set for 19th March. It appears they are not actually in administration at all because of a legal c**k up.
My God what on earth is going on???
Take another ten points off... :D
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 15, 2012, 12:11:14 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 15, 2012, 10:21:12 AM
LDA - why did you bring up the topic of the Irish flag then - the context it was used looked to imply that it was used to be sectarian.
you still have not pointed out what songs are about blowing people up that are sung by Celtic fans.
if you think scotland would be a friendly safe place if all the Celtic/rangers fans were shipped out - then you need to have a closer look at the place.
charlie mulgrew isnt great- point was that he could have been good if strachan hadnt been so unprofessional and thrown a hissy fit. that he has been called up and played for scotland shows he has some talent - but it could have been more- so think again when saying i know nothing about soccer !
rangers will be safe. they will lose a couple of players but thats about it.
Why do you have two usernames? Anyway this is tiresome, there is no need for further explanation on the flag as its perfectly obvious in the initial post. Similarly there is no denying that some Celtic fans sing songs that glorify blowing people up.
As for Scotland being a safe and friendly place without the OF I made no such suggestion, rather that the OF have contributed hugely to bigotry still being an issue here. It would help if you read posts more carefully before replying and asking people to justify comments they actually haven't made.
Mulgrew is the same limited player he always was, but credit to Lennon for making the most of his talents and using him in such a way that his weaknesses are not exposed. Good management. I think its a weak case if you believe that a Scotland cap means he is talented though given some of the dross Scotland cap. Strachan had better options in his time at Celtic.
Disagree on Rangers too, they will ultimately survive or re emerge but there will be more pain than just the loss of 2 players, which has indeed already happened.
thats fine about the flag - but the puzzling thing is why did you mention it in the first place (an attempt at inferring something that has backfired)
again please let me know which song you are referring to about blowing up people - I am intrigued as I dont think I know this one...
simple question. you keep banging on about it, so you must know what it is..
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 02:19:16 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 09, 2012, 02:10:08 PM
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 09, 2012, 01:13:12 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 09, 2012, 12:19:03 PM
why do so many Irishmen follow a Scottish one?
There's a strong link between Donegal and Scotland isn't there ?
More traditionally between Antrim and Scotland - hence Antrim being an isolted hurling county, where the tradition was to play with the longer, leaner hurl.
Quote from: seafoid on March 09, 2012, 12:19:03 PM
Then the Celtic tricolour stuff must have set off a feedback loop with the rest of the country. And the 1967 european cup could have been in the mix at some stage.
Ahh, gloryhunting essentially. Suppose that explains why Lochee Harp never got the big support from over the water...
didn't a lot of Donegal men go working in glasgow ? The Antrim thing is a bit older I think.
Do you know this map ? All placenames as Gaeilge agus Gaidhlig
http://www.colmcille.net/en/projects/project.php?ID=24
the angle is a bit different - the countries are fairly close if you look at it sideways
Placenames are an interesting one.
For example, the Western Isles, the main Gaidhlig speaking region, has mostly Germanic/Nordic placenames (every island ending in an -ey sound for example).
Meanwhile, you'll find Gaidhlig place names in the North East, where the original language was more related to Welsh than Gaidhlig, and the modern dialect heavily influenced with Germanicsms picked up through trade with Scandinavia and the low countries - you'll still hear people prounounce what? as "fit?" or "white" as "fite", and the local word for girl, "quine" is almost exactly the same as the Norwegian. Yet our shinty pitch was called Balgownie, I'd be very surprised of there wasn't a Ballygowan, Smithstown, somewhere in Ireland.
LondonCamanachd
I ended up ordering that map and it arrived yesterday. I never new that Kingussie meant Ceann Gaoitheach or windy mountain. Kirkintilloch is the Gaidhlig equivalent of Ceathar Ceann Tulach . The Scottish names are fascinating. There seems to be an original Gaidhlig name for at least 75% of the towns on the map. The English names are just like colonial overlays.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 14, 2012, 11:56:36 PM
More importantly however we should be laughing at Rangers on this thread - like this halfwit who really brightened up my day ;D ;D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pDk75Y1SZ4&feature=player_embedded
That really made my day! ;D
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2012, 04:18:43 PM
I ended up ordering that map and it arrived yesterday. I never new that Kingussie meant Ceann Gaoitheach or windy mountain. Kirkintilloch is the Gaidhlig equivalent of Ceathar Ceann Tulach . The Scottish names are fascinating. There seems to be an original Gaidhlig name for at least 75% of the towns on the map. The English names are just like colonial overlays.
You'd think Auchterarder was German - if you didn't know better
Haven't really been following this but will whatever happens Rangers be seismic enough to mean that they won't finish in the top 2 next season?
Quote from: deiseach on March 15, 2012, 04:42:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2012, 04:18:43 PM
I ended up ordering that map and it arrived yesterday. I never new that Kingussie meant Ceann Gaoitheach or windy mountain. Kirkintilloch is the Gaidhlig equivalent of Ceathar Ceann Tulach . The Scottish names are fascinating. There seems to be an original Gaidhlig name for at least 75% of the towns on the map. The English names are just like colonial overlays.
You'd think Auchterarder was German - if you didn't know better
The Swiss town of Thun was originally a Celtic Dun .
There are 4 or 5 other Swiss towns that originally had Dun in the name.
The Germans and the Swiss Germans are only recent blow ins really.
Quote from: deiseach on March 15, 2012, 04:42:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2012, 04:18:43 PM
I ended up ordering that map and it arrived yesterday. I never new that Kingussie meant Ceann Gaoitheach or windy mountain. Kirkintilloch is the Gaidhlig equivalent of Ceathar Ceann Tulach . The Scottish names are fascinating. There seems to be an original Gaidhlig name for at least 75% of the towns on the map. The English names are just like colonial overlays.
You'd think Auchterarder was German - if you didn't know better
But probably not dissimilar to Oughterard.
I used to go out wit a Scottish girl. She had little or no Gadhlig but I could tell her what a lot of the signs meant in train stations etc because of their similarity to Gaeilge.
Quote from: Never beat the deeler on March 15, 2012, 11:52:34 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 15, 2012, 04:42:53 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2012, 04:18:43 PM
I ended up ordering that map and it arrived yesterday. I never new that Kingussie meant Ceann Gaoitheach or windy mountain. Kirkintilloch is the Gaidhlig equivalent of Ceathar Ceann Tulach . The Scottish names are fascinating. There seems to be an original Gaidhlig name for at least 75% of the towns on the map. The English names are just like colonial overlays.
You'd think Auchterarder was German - if you didn't know better
But probably not dissimilar to Oughterard.
I used to go out wit a Scottish girl. She had little or no Gadhlig but I could tell her what a lot of the signs meant in train stations etc because of their similarity to Gaeilge.
Ok translate this one:
(http://gettingworse.files.wordpress.com/2007/11/trainsign.jpg)
The SFA are today making charges against Rangers, some of which relate to Craig Whyte not being a fit and proper person to run a club.
Isn't it a bit strange that a rogue chairman has to prove himself unfit by his actions with the club before the SFA will consider the merits of his character in the first place to run a club? It's almost as if the SFA just took Ranger's word for it, that this conman/chancer was in fact a bona fide businessman and simply turned off the tv when those journalist investigations were raising serious questions about Whyte that deserved a serious inquiry by the SFA.
When it comes to reviewing the conduct of the SFA one can be both rational and paranoid at the same time.
Quote from: camanchero on March 15, 2012, 03:58:01 PM
thats fine about the flag - but the puzzling thing is why did you mention it in the first place (an attempt at inferring something that has backfired)
again please let me know which song you are referring to about blowing up people - I am intrigued as I dont think I know this one...
simple question. you keep banging on about it, so you must know what it is..
It's not puzzling in the slightest if you are not a simpleton. I have referred you back to the original post countless times but it doesn't seem you bothered to look, so here it is. "The vast majority of the fans of other clubs couldn't give a shit about
Irish politics yet since time immemorial have been subjected to morons brandishing
red hand flags/tricolours". There is absolutely no suggestion that either flag is sectarian. As for the songs you seemed to accept yourself on the previous page that you were being pedantic on this issue and as such I'm not sure why you are now returning to it. I don't need to explain it you again, I have already made the point for your benefit in a number of posts.
I don't agree with everything that Main Street, Deiseach and London Camanachd have posted in this debate but I think they have all made some very good and reasoned points. The same could not be said of you and I won't waste any more time replying to you.
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2012, 04:18:43 PM
LondonCamanachd
I ended up ordering that map and it arrived yesterday. I never new that Kingussie meant Ceann Gaoitheach or windy mountain. Kirkintilloch is the Gaidhlig equivalent of Ceathar Ceann Tulach . The Scottish names are fascinating. There seems to be an original Gaidhlig name for at least 75% of the towns on the map. The English names are just like colonial overlays.
It doesn't! Kingussie is Ceann a' Ghiuthsaich - the head of the pine forest. The spread of Gaelic placenames in Scotland is certainly very interesting with names appearing in places where some people now claim Gaelic was never spoken. The irony is, as pointed out by London Camanachd earlier on, that in the islands where Gaelic is now at it's strongest the majority of the placenames are of Norse origin.
Quote from: Main Street on March 16, 2012, 10:42:45 AM
The SFA are today making charges against Rangers, some of which relate to Craig Whyte not being a fit and proper person to run a club.
Isn't it a bit strange that a rogue chairman has to prove himself unfit by his actions with the club before the SFA will consider the merits of his character in the first place to run a club? It's almost as if the SFA just took Ranger's word for it, that this conman/chancer was in fact a bona fide businessman and simply turned off the tv when those journalist investigations were raising serious questions about Whyte that deserved a serious inquiry by the SFA.
When it comes to reviewing the conduct of the SFA one can be both rational and paranoid at the same time.
I thought the most staggering comments regarding Whyte came from David Murray himself. He said how hard it was to get info on Whyte's background and that a google search would only bring up one article :o. As Roddy Forsyth says in this excellent article http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9146997/Rangers-in-administration-Its-too-late-to-send-in-the-clowns....html there were plenty of questions over Whyte in the public domain at the time of the takeover. Murray simply ignored them such was his haste to get shot of Rangers. He has no credibility anymore.
The idea of Rangers directors ever being "fit and proper" is a strange one anyway, this is the club that operated a sectarian signing policy for over a century. Whyte wasn't fit and proper but he was just the latest in a long line of Ibrox directors to whom that applied.
Another piece that caught my eye was from former Celtic chairman Michael Kelly, one of those who landed Celtic in the sh*t back in the 90's. He takes a very conciliatory tone indeed. http://www.scotsman.com/news/michael-kelly-helping-rangers-would-be-sporting-thing-to-do-1-2173011
Kelly himself blew a lot of his credibility back in the 90's (Cambuslag ;D) but this quote is still revealing
"After the initial wave of pleasure at Rangers' discomfiture most Celtic fans realise the necessity of restoring them to health. Those who still resist this notion are on the fringes. They are the ones who sing most passionately about Celtic's history. Here is a piece of that history which they do not know but which might convince them that the club should extend a helping hand to their great rivals. Rangers were once before in financial difficulty. It was in the 1920's when my grandfather, James Kelly (a former Scotland centre-half), was chairman of Celtic. Rangers had a temporary cash flow problem and their board came out to his house in Blantyre to explain the problem and seek help. Celtic gave them an unconditional short-term loan. The fact that Rangers felt able to ask and that Celtic willingly responded indicates that both clubs were aware of their inter-dependence. Murray sought to supplant that symbiosis – possibly because he never came to Rangers as a supporter. He would have been the first to boast that Rangers could prosper outwith the Old Firm.".
And that, ultimately, is why Celtic will make sure Rangers are allowed back to the top table.
On the contrary, every other club but Celtic desperately needs the ticket money that Rangers' travelling support provides, so much so that if Rangers don't pay up or delay with paying for those tickets, the respective club is gasping for cash, ready to go belly up. Same goes for those clubs who can sell the odd player onto Rangers.
Celtic can survive quite nicely for a few years while waiting for the New Rangers to crawl up the leagues.
Meanwhile other clubs outside the SPL can benefit financially from their encounters with NRfc.
@MS Been away from the world with the Norovirus, wouldn't wish it on Nacho Novo.
I don't think we'll agree or see eye to eye, but I should reiterate, there is no widespread hate or dislike of irish people in Scotland.
Celtic supporters are not told in Aberdeen "they're in the wrong f**king country", the inference, if you're not looking for bigotry, is that they appear to be lost, as Athenry is not in Scotland - it's not an expression of anti-Irish hatred in any way shape or form. It also gets opened up when rangers indulge in their songs, and - more tongue-in-cheek, when Dundee Utd fans start singing about Barcelona.
Quote from: Main Street on March 14, 2012, 12:01:47 AM
The clear accountable fact of history in Scotland, is that Celtic fc has been there as a focal point for Irish and Irish/Scottish ethnic groups and has had a immeasurable positive effect in raising the dignity of the diaspora. It may not be a crime to be Irish in Scotland, neither is discrimination a significant social factor these days, however it surely is regarded as a lower form of humankind to be Irish, it's something to taunt, to mock. Go to Aberdeen, the natives taunt the Celts with 'you're in the wrong country'.
Football is just another place where that hatred/ mocking ignorance from Scots towards Irish ethnicity, manifests itself.
In the mainstream of Scottish media opinion, this is what passes for intelligent comment,
"The problem with a large section of the Celtic support is that they do not think of themselves as Scots. They will tell you that they are Irish or Scots-Irish, whatever that's supposed to be."
'this fixation with Ireland which so many Scots have, makes my blood boil.'
When Scotland played Ireland 7 or 8 years ago at Hamden pk, how the redkneck Scottish bumpkins were outraged by the sight/sound of thousands of native Scots supporting Ireland.
Quite simply it boils down to one main prejudice held by the more primitive Scots
against those who have Irish ethnicity in Scotland or a Scots/Irish identity.
When that Celtic fan accepted that UEFA award for the supporters, he said something to the effect that 'all over Europe we are welcomed, yet at home everywhere we go its hostile, every expression/ celebration of our culture, our identity, is seen as a threat, even a sectarian threat.'
Yeah, maybe those all those Celts should keep quiet about their Irishness. How dare they sing old rebel folk songs, sing the 'soldiers song', wave the tricolour ::)
Even in Lisbon 1967, those Celtic hordes were waving the tricolour, a perceived blight on many a scottish tv screen ;D
irony?
Quote from: Main Street on March 16, 2012, 10:42:45 AM
The SFA are today making charges against Rangers, some of which relate to Craig Whyte not being a fit and proper person to run a club.
Isn't it a bit strange that a rogue chairman has to prove himself unfit by his actions with the club before the SFA will consider the merits of his character in the first place to run a club? It's almost as if the SFA just took Ranger's word for it, that this conman/chancer was in fact a bona fide businessman and simply turned off the tv when those journalist investigations were raising serious questions about Whyte that deserved a serious inquiry by the SFA.
When it comes to reviewing the conduct of the SFA one can be both rational and paranoid at the same time.
It's because the SFA has no defined Fit and Proper Person test, in the manner that the English FA does.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 17, 2012, 12:37:20 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 14, 2012, 12:01:47 AM
The clear accountable fact of history in Scotland, is that Celtic fc has been there as a focal point for Irish and Irish/Scottish ethnic groups and has had a immeasurable positive effect in raising the dignity of the diaspora. It may not be a crime to be Irish in Scotland, neither is discrimination a significant social factor these days, however it surely is regarded as a lower form of humankind to be Irish, it's something to taunt, to mock. Go to Aberdeen, the natives taunt the Celts with 'you're in the wrong country'.
Football is just another place where that hatred/ mocking ignorance from Scots towards Irish ethnicity, manifests itself.
In the mainstream of Scottish media opinion, this is what passes for intelligent comment,
"The problem with a large section of the Celtic support is that they do not think of themselves as Scots. They will tell you that they are Irish or Scots-Irish, whatever that's supposed to be."
'this fixation with Ireland which so many Scots have, makes my blood boil.'
When Scotland played Ireland 7 or 8 years ago at Hamden pk, how the redkneck Scottish bumpkins were outraged by the sight/sound of thousands of native Scots supporting Ireland.
Quite simply it boils down to one main prejudice held by the more primitive Scots
against those who have Irish ethnicity in Scotland or a Scots/Irish identity.
When that Celtic fan accepted that UEFA award for the supporters, he said something to the effect that 'all over Europe we are welcomed, yet at home everywhere we go its hostile, every expression/ celebration of our culture, our identity, is seen as a threat, even a sectarian threat.'
Yeah, maybe those all those Celts should keep quiet about their Irishness. How dare they sing old rebel folk songs, sing the 'soldiers song', wave the tricolour ::)
Even in Lisbon 1967, those Celtic hordes were waving the tricolour, a perceived blight on many a scottish tv screen ;D
irony?
No, just obvious hyperbole.
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 17, 2012, 12:34:56 AM
Celtic supporters are not told in Aberdeen "they're in the wrong f**king country", the inference, if you're not looking for bigotry, is that they appear to be lost, as Athenry is not in Scotland - it's not an expression of anti-Irish hatred in any way shape or form.
QuoteCeltic supporters are not told in Aberdeen "they're in the wrong f**king country"
Maybe because those Aberdeen fans are not that dumb to curse their own country, but instead would aim the profanity at the target.
Sure, when I call a 'Traveller' a 'Knácker', I really don't hate him, I didn't use a profanity::)
Take any taunt in isolation and one can say in defence, 'why are you being so sensitive?', 'it's your fault for being so sensitive that's making an issue out of nothing'. 'When Aberdeen fans do their taunts (just another version of the 'Famine Song'), it's all a bit of a laugh really.'
What a terrible misunderstanding it all has been. How on earth could members of the Irish ethnic group in Scotland actually believe their ethnicity was being taunted? ::)
Let me direct you to the definition as used by Scotland against Racism, which in general can apply
'Racism can be defined in different ways, but for the purposes of this website we have used the following definition:
Conduct, words or practices which disadvantage or advantage people because of their colour, culture or ethnic origin. It can be subtle or overt, intentional or unwitting.
Racism can therefore manifest itself in many different ways, not just through people's language or physical actions.
Racism and discrimination can take different forms, including direct, indirect and institutional.
Racism has often been related to particular economic and social circumstances when migrants have been perceived by the resident population to represent some form of economic or social threat.
Racism today is experienced by many communities, both visible and non-visible minorities. During the 18th and 19th centuries, and even still in the 20th century, hostility and prejudice was expressed towards migrants from Ireland, Italy and even the Highlands of Scotland.'
Quote from: LondonCamanachd on March 17, 2012, 12:45:30 AM
Quote from: Main Street on March 16, 2012, 10:42:45 AM
The SFA are today making charges against Rangers, some of which relate to Craig Whyte not being a fit and proper person to run a club.
Isn't it a bit strange that a rogue chairman has to prove himself unfit by his actions with the club before the SFA will consider the merits of his character in the first place to run a club? It's almost as if the SFA just took Ranger's word for it, that this conman/chancer was in fact a bona fide businessman and simply turned off the tv when those journalist investigations were raising serious questions about Whyte that deserved a serious inquiry by the SFA.
When it comes to reviewing the conduct of the SFA one can be both rational and paranoid at the same time.
It's because the SFA has no defined Fit and Proper Person test, in the manner that the English FA does.
Well maybe so, but the SFA have the constitutional right to investigate his integrity as a fit and proper person and since the name Whyte appeared on the football scene, they had plenty of substantial accusations flying around to inspire them to do so.
SFA Handbook http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/ScottishFApublications2011-12/Scottish%20FA%20Handbook.pdf (http://www.scottishfa.co.uk/resources/documents/SFAPublications/ScottishFApublications2011-12/Scottish%20FA%20Handbook.pdf)
article 10.2
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 16, 2012, 10:41:29 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 15, 2012, 03:58:01 PM
thats fine about the flag - but the puzzling thing is why did you mention it in the first place (an attempt at inferring something that has backfired)
again please let me know which song you are referring to about blowing up people - I am intrigued as I dont think I know this one...
simple question. you keep banging on about it, so you must know what it is..
It's not puzzling in the slightest if you are not a simpleton. I have referred you back to the original post countless times but it doesn't seem you bothered to look, so here it is. "The vast majority of the fans of other clubs couldn't give a shit about Irish politics yet since time immemorial have been subjected to morons brandishing red hand flags/tricolours". There is absolutely no suggestion that either flag is sectarian. As for the songs you seemed to accept yourself on the previous page that you were being pedantic on this issue and as such I'm not sure why you are now returning to it. I don't need to explain it you again, I have already made the point for your benefit in a number of posts.
I don't agree with everything that Main Street, Deiseach and London Camanachd have posted in this debate but I think they have all made some very good and reasoned points. The same could not be said of you and I won't waste any more time replying to you.
...therein lies the problem
You brought up the notion of the Ieish flag and equated it with the red hand loyalist flag - and you call other people 'simpleton' ( resorting to that means you are obv very lever - you smoke and swear as well I expect!)
However you may wish to interpret my mention of being pedantic ( I'll spell it out for you - that was your cue to admit there are no such songs that celebrate blowing people up- but you didn't take the lifeline ) so unless you can name any such song ( and if it exists then I've never heard it sung at Celtic games - and all rebel songs I can think of celebrate martyrs who have been killed rather than bloodthirsty songs about killing - but folk like you don't want to admit this as it distorts and ruins your attacking point on Celtic fans) then stop trying to hype up what does not exist , just because you wish it were so!
Think you jockos need to have a harder look at your own people and culture. The sectarianism against catholic schools and against Irish and English residents/visitors of the country. Not isolated incidents either and not in Glasgow!!
Dundee Utd. 2 Rangers 1
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17323889
Will Administration come soon enough?
5Live doing a program on the Rangers' situation on Monday at 7pm. Should be interesting.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 16, 2012, 10:46:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2012, 04:18:43 PM
LondonCamanachd
I ended up ordering that map and it arrived yesterday. I never new that Kingussie meant Ceann Gaoitheach or windy mountain. Kirkintilloch is the Gaidhlig equivalent of Ceathar Ceann Tulach . The Scottish names are fascinating. There seems to be an original Gaidhlig name for at least 75% of the towns on the map. The English names are just like colonial overlays.
It doesn't! Kingussie is Ceann a' Ghiuthsaich - the head of the pine forest. The spread of Gaelic placenames in Scotland is certainly very interesting with names appearing in places where some people now claim Gaelic was never spoken. The irony is, as pointed out by London Camanachd earlier on, that in the islands where Gaelic is now at it's strongest the majority of the placenames are of Norse origin.
Gaidhlig was spoken by the court in Edinburgh until the reign of James IV (1473-1513)
Looking at the placenames it must have been spoken as far south as Galloway although in the south and the far north on the east coast they spoke either Norse or some kind of English.
Basically the Scots were Gaels ;) but it is hard to admit this even today.
Quote from: seafoid on March 17, 2012, 06:38:20 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 16, 2012, 10:46:23 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 15, 2012, 04:18:43 PM
LondonCamanachd
I ended up ordering that map and it arrived yesterday. I never new that Kingussie meant Ceann Gaoitheach or windy mountain. Kirkintilloch is the Gaidhlig equivalent of Ceathar Ceann Tulach . The Scottish names are fascinating. There seems to be an original Gaidhlig name for at least 75% of the towns on the map. The English names are just like colonial overlays.
It doesn't! Kingussie is Ceann a' Ghiuthsaich - the head of the pine forest. The spread of Gaelic placenames in Scotland is certainly very interesting with names appearing in places where some people now claim Gaelic was never spoken. The irony is, as pointed out by London Camanachd earlier on, that in the islands where Gaelic is now at it's strongest the majority of the placenames are of Norse origin.
Gaidhlig was spoken by the court in Edinburgh until the reign of James IV (1473-1513)
Looking at the placenames it must have been spoken as far south as Galloway although in the south and the far north on the east coast they spoke either Norse or some kind of English.
Basically the Scots were Gaels ;) but it is hard to admit this even today.
Not 'basically', so much as 100% correct. The Scots were Gaels who came from Ireland.
Quote from: camanchero on March 17, 2012, 10:27:00 AM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 16, 2012, 10:41:29 PM
Quote from: camanchero on March 15, 2012, 03:58:01 PM
thats fine about the flag - but the puzzling thing is why did you mention it in the first place (an attempt at inferring something that has backfired)
again please let me know which song you are referring to about blowing up people - I am intrigued as I dont think I know this one...
simple question. you keep banging on about it, so you must know what it is..
It's not puzzling in the slightest if you are not a simpleton. I have referred you back to the original post countless times but it doesn't seem you bothered to look, so here it is. "The vast majority of the fans of other clubs couldn't give a shit about Irish politics yet since time immemorial have been subjected to morons brandishing red hand flags/tricolours". There is absolutely no suggestion that either flag is sectarian. As for the songs you seemed to accept yourself on the previous page that you were being pedantic on this issue and as such I'm not sure why you are now returning to it. I don't need to explain it you again, I have already made the point for your benefit in a number of posts.
I don't agree with everything that Main Street, Deiseach and London Camanachd have posted in this debate but I think they have all made some very good and reasoned points. The same could not be said of you and I won't waste any more time replying to you.
...therein lies the problem
You brought up the notion of the Ieish flag and equated it with the red hand loyalist flag - and you call other people 'simpleton' ( resorting to that means you are obv very lever - you smoke and swear as well I expect!)
However you may wish to interpret my mention of being pedantic ( I'll spell it out for you - that was your cue to admit there are no such songs that celebrate blowing people up- but you didn't take the lifeline ) so unless you can name any such song ( and if it exists then I've never heard it sung at Celtic games - and all rebel songs I can think of celebrate martyrs who have been killed rather than bloodthirsty songs about killing - but folk like you don't want to admit this as it distorts and ruins your attacking point on Celtic fans) then stop trying to hype up what does not exist , just because you wish it were so!
Think you jockos need to have a harder look at your own people and culture. The sectarianism against catholic schools and against Irish and English residents/visitors of the country. Not isolated incidents either and not in Glasgow!!
This has gone way beyond the scope of this thread and mainly just a typical outpouring prejudiced against Celtic fc, the club ethos and the way the fans choose to celebrate that ethos. Not ony that, but along with the usual wild, crazy and unsubstantiated claims that Celtic fans are actually Provo groupies, we have also the subjective hearsay testimony of an Aberdeen fan who choses to interpret what Celtic fans do, as being a complete blight against the club. But when it comes to the behaviour of his own club fans, we have all sorts of excuses being offered.
We certainly don't hear how Scottish society would be better off without Aberdeen fans ;D
Because of course, as the pseudo analysis might go if taken a step further, it's Rangers and Celtic are to blame for any humanity shortcomings with the Aberdeen support ::)
There's just not a difficulty to recognise the attitudinal (not overt) bigotry against Irish ethnicity and how it's celebrated by Celtic fans, but what we have here is a complete denial of this type of bigotry existing in Scottish society.
And we have a rehash of the same excuse that was offered to explain this type of hatred towards Celtic fc as was offered to explain the bile abuse systematically thrown against Neil Lennon, that he was actually a horrible little angry man - he deserved it.
Stockport fans wouldn't have a good word on Brian Kennedy. Well, the Daily Mirror's Oliver Holt anyway.
http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/oliver-holt/Why-Brian-Kennedy-and-Sale-Sharks-are-killing-Stockport-County-the-football-club-I-love-by-Oliver-Holt-article270857.html (http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/oliver-holt/Why-Brian-Kennedy-and-Sale-Sharks-are-killing-Stockport-County-the-football-club-I-love-by-Oliver-Holt-article270857.html)
:D ;D Celtic :D ;D
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 18, 2012, 04:59:30 PM
:D ;D Celtic :D ;D
That's bound to lift Rangers spirits today. Good for the smaller clubs win a cup from the Old Firm
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on March 18, 2012, 05:08:03 PM
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 18, 2012, 04:59:30 PM
:D ;D Celtic :D ;D
That's bound to lift Rangers spirits today. Good for the smaller clubs win a cup from the Old Firm
The frowns will be turned upside down.
With the mess Rangers are in, Celtic not winning the 3rd most important Trophy in the Scottish Football season of little consulation.
Rangers' green cousins ??
Shall we call Rangers, 'Aberdeeen's better half' ;D
A reminder of the BBC R5 program this evening, starting 19.00.
Rangers - What Next?
Scottish Premier League Football 2011-12
DURATION: 2 HOURS
'With the existence of Rangers Football Club in the balance, Mark Chapman presents a special programme from Glasgow to examine what's next for the historic Scottish club.
Hear from former players, managers, politicians, journalists and fans on why they think the club has got to this point, and what they feel is the future for Rangers.'
Personally, I feel the future for Rangers fc is rather bleak. It's hard at present to see them avoid liquidation, famine and player emigration.
It was an interesting program. Roddy Forsyth thinks that a CVA is the most likely outcome, that the Inland Revenue would agree to that happening with a Scottish club.
But afaiaa, that CVA depends on Ticketus' £20m being considered a debt and in a CVA situation that Ticketus debt would just be placed in a queue along with other debts, to be seriously diluted.
So is it not strange that Ticketus are part of the leading bidding consortium for the club, the Blue Knights, who firmly believe that a CVA is the best way forward?
That Ticketus, the creditor most likely to block and vote against a CVA, are part of a consortium who have the CVA as their mantra? That the question of the Ticketus' £20m is now the subject of a court case where the administrators are trying to get that Ticketus contract terminated.
Another thing of note in the program was a tear jerker of a story by a Ranger's fan of how his dog came up to him and asked him
"how much is that new bed for me going to cost?"
the owners said "about £40"
the dog stoically replied "forget about it, I don't need it, Rangers need it more"
The owner was moved by this touching humble gesture but even more than that, he was enveloped in a deep sense of pride, his dog was a true bluenose.
A director of Rangers fc (until recently) was asked 'if he knew anything untoward was going on?'
He said he knew nothing.
He was asked, 'well what about all the rumours?' 'did you not have or ask any questions of Whyte?'
The ex-director exclaimed, "what rumours?"
That exchange came near the end, when the program was trying to wrap up in a warm fuzzy haze of optimism and therefore escaped proper scrutiny.
Some chat about entering the English league,
about 85% -90% of the bluenoses in the audience indicated they would agree to it, if it was possible.
Others in the panel said that with the tv money and the huge loyal support base, it would not take long (5 years says Alex Ferguson) for Rangers and Celtic to be challenging for the EPL title.
Then both clubs could enter their B team in the SPL, thereby giving the other spl clubs a glimmer of hope of actually winning the title.
A sordid tale all round. Whyte seems to have been quite a character.
Will Hearts be the next one or is that just a "cash flow" problem?
There was an interview with a tax expert, an accountant with Kingston Smith called Mike Hayes on SkySports tv.
It's a game of 2 halves, the first part has an interview with Murray, the 2nd half with Hayes.
The Ides of March for Rangers fc.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2h6gqk_Ybw&feature=player_embedded#! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H2h6gqk_Ybw&feature=player_embedded#!)
Mike Hayes. - It would appear Inland Revenue have evidence that these payments (EBT's) were a reward for employment and if they were contractual they would be liable for tax and nat ins.
Q. The issue here is discretionary, were those EBT payments discretionary?
MH. It would appear that that IR have emails between the club and certain football agents that indicate perhaps they weren't discretionary .... that would appear to be the nub of the matter.
Q. Murray's point was that it's not just us who used ebv's, other companies and institutions used them as well?
MH. They are being investigated also and it's not just Rangers who are being taken to court.
Q. If Rangers win the big tax case does it suddenly become solvent?
MH. IR have indicated that they would appeal to the High Court if they lose, and the High Court tend not to favour aggressive tax avoidance/evasion schemes.
Rangers winning at the first hurdle does not mean they are free of the liability.
It could drag on for years, it could end up in the Supreme Court
Q. Even if they win at the highest court what happens to their solvency/ insolvency position?
MH. I would imagine it would be difficult unless it moves its business to another entity.
The ex Rangers director of football on the BBCR5 program I referred to was in fact Gordon Smith ex director of football
He denied he knew about Whyte's mo, denied he heard any rumours about Whyte and actually denied that rumours existed.
http://soundcloud.com/celticresearch/mark-daly-smith/s-1lnXz (http://soundcloud.com/celticresearch/mark-daly-smith/s-1lnXz)
Quote from: Main Street on March 19, 2012, 12:33:48 PM
Rangers' green cousins ??
Shall we call Rangers, 'Aberdeeen's better half' ;D
Nah, judging by the average Ibrox crowd, ranger's cousins would also be their better halfs.
Quote from: Main Street on March 20, 2012, 11:12:32 AM
Q. If Rangers win the big tax case does it suddenly become solvent?
MH. IR have indicated that they would appeal to the High Court if they lose, and the High Court tend not to favour aggressive tax avoidance/evasion schemes.
Rangers winning at the first hurdle does not mean they are free of the liability.
It could drag on for years, it could end up in the Supreme Court
Ignoring the big tax case and wee tax case, rangers are currently running at a £10 million/year deficit. That cannot be sustainable, even if the debt disappeared overnight.
There's an article in the Scotsman, musing about the SPL financial future and the Sky tv contract. Leads one to believe that impoverished SPL clubs like the Dundees, Aberdeen, Kilmarnock, Hearts, Hibs, Motherwell etc would be putting pressure for Rangers fc to remain in the SPL and not banished to the 3rd division.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/tom-english-it-took-one-clever-assist-for-city-fans-to-chuck-their-morals-in-the-dustbin-and-hail-tevez-1-2195526 (http://www.scotsman.com/news/tom-english-it-took-one-clever-assist-for-city-fans-to-chuck-their-morals-in-the-dustbin-and-hail-tevez-1-2195526)
EXHIBIT C: SCOTTISH FOOTBALL
The news that Sky have inserted an Old Firm clause in the new £80m SPL television contract is not a surprise, but it raises certain questions nonetheless. Sky are saying that Rangers and Celtic must remain in the SPL or else they have a right to terminate a deal that so many clubs rely on to keep themselves afloat from one week to the next.
The club has already been found guilty of cheating on its taxes to the tune of £9-£15million. That's why they're in administration. Let's assume the Employee Benefit Trusts tax case verdict is damning. We're not saying it will be but, for the sake of an argument, let's say it is. And let's say that the SPL inquiry also produces a damaging result. The SPL and the SFA then have a decision to make. If morality counted for everything they would revoke Rangers' membership of the SPL and they would have to start again in the Third Division as punishment for their crimes.
But to do so would mean the ripping up of the broadcast contract which keeps the SPL alive and it would do nothing for the SPL's chances of finding a new title sponsor when Clydesdale Bank walk away the season after next.
This is a moral argument for another day. But you feel like you already know the answer, don't you?
bet you watched the game though?
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on March 26, 2012, 12:21:32 AM
The author of that piece, Tom English, is from Limerick. He has branded Celtic fans who sing IRA songs as "morons" who shame the club. I wonder is Tom guilty of being against those of who hold dear Irish ethnicity in Scotland ;D. UEFA fined Celtic for IRA chanting too recently, perhaps they are also opposed to the Irish in Scotland?
When a moron write something moronic I may brand him/her a moron. 'Moronicity' is not restricted to Scotland.
If I branded you a moron, you would have no doubt deserved to be called a moron.
I don't have the full quote at hand from Tom English or the context in which it was made.
Now we have you writing about IRA chants, I suppose that means you will not be supplying us with a list of all those bloodletting republican songs that Celtic fans are supposed to be singing?
Re Tom English, if he criticised those Celtic fans who throw in the IRA chants, as morons, fair enough - that's his opinion, it would also be my opinion. But if he engages on claiming that Celtic fc are being one side of the 2 sided sectarian coin then I would brand him a moron. If he made references to the waving of the tricolour as being antagonistic and derogatory reference to the Irish ethnicity of Celtic fc, derogative references to that Irish ethnicity in the context of Scottish culture, then I would also brand him a moron.
UEFA fined Celtic fc for some fans chanting IRA add-ons at a Europa league game, such chants violates UEFA rules. Why on earth would I consider UEFA morons? It was an appropriate fine. Have UEFA referred derogatively in any shape or form to the Irish ethnicity and Irish traditions of Celtic fc? No they haven't! in fact UEFA have no problem with Celtic fc.
LDA in order to debate an issue with me, you first should take the time to understand the points already made by me. and maybe you would be less inclined to ask silly irrelevant emotional questions.
(http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/539887_234230123342783_194534483979014_420752_1905383407_n.jpg)
pretty much odds on liquidation now for rangers
what exactly does that mean for the club, (where do they start etc, etc)
I see Rangers have been ruled by a tribunal that no players above the age of 18 could be registered for the next year by the Ibrox side.
Not ones to take their punishment for cheating over the last number of years, various fan clubs have said they will boycott Scottish Internationals and away games.
Ridiculous level of moaning from mccoist - they could be getting treated a lot worse than they are.
Fully expect these bans and fines to be reduced on some sort of appeal, they are complaining about being kicked when they are down.
They have to ask themselves why are the down, illegal payments to players go back over years? Are they a special case.
Quote from: NAG1 on April 25, 2012, 01:07:20 PM
Fully expect these bans and fines to be reduced on some sort of appeal, they are complaining about being kicked when they are down.
They have to ask themselves why are the down, illegal payments to players go back over years? Are they a special case.
They seem to think they are. ANd if not then they will Bully their way out!
Are they not going to have titles stripped from them? Seems like they are getting away light.
Quote from: amallon on April 25, 2012, 04:23:57 PM
Are they not going to have titles stripped from them? Seems like they are getting away light.
Oh how cruel you are. Have a heart!
McCoist talking about reforming Rangers and coming up from 3rd Division.
Will teams in Div 3 have the money for policing?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17829739
McCoist also admitted that he was "leaning towards" accepting that the club's immediate future might rest in the Third Division, a possible scenario should Rangers emerge from administration in the form of a newco.
"It would be an unbelievably drastic measure and it will have an incredible impact on Scottish football - and not for the good," he said.
"But if they are going to continue to impose sanctions on us and make things extremely difficult for us to defend ourselves then maybe, just maybe, it might be the right thing.
Does that mean, in essence, that they will do walking away?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjFzUVCQ1vM (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjFzUVCQ1vM)
What did Laverty do to upset management?
Quote from: Orior on April 25, 2012, 10:17:45 PM
What did Laverty do to upset management?
He's a hun, what more do you need!
Did Chelsea not have an embargo on transfers for 18 months a few years ago?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17846691
Police have given security advice to members of a Scottish FA panel that handed out punishments to Rangers, after their identities were revealed.
The names of the three-man board responsible for imposing a year-long transfer embargo on the Ibrox club have been published on internet sites
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 26, 2012, 09:52:20 AM
Quote from: Orior on April 25, 2012, 10:17:45 PM
What did Laverty do to upset management?
He's a hun, what more do you need!
Supposedly he didn't turn up for a match. He was injured but McCoist asked him to come along anyway.
Ye couldn't love him if he was your own
Quote from: gawa316 on April 26, 2012, 10:15:19 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 26, 2012, 09:52:20 AM
Quote from: Orior on April 25, 2012, 10:17:45 PM
What did Laverty do to upset management?
He's a hun, what more do you need!
Supposedly he didn't turn up for a match. He was injured but McCoist asked him to come along anyway.
Ye couldn't love him if he was your own
I read somewhere he was booked in somewhere for a hernia op late last week - had been playing with the injury for a while. McCoist cancelled the op and told him he would be on the bench for the match dispite the injury.
I have no time for him and think he's an idiot but I can see where he's coming from (I can't believe I'm looking at this from Kyle Lafferty's point of view) - why not have the op as early as possible (considering they've nothing more to play for this year) and get ready for pre-season as early as possible instead of sitting on the bench for a meaningless match.
Maybe McCoist's coming at it from the viewpoint that Lafferty'll be gone as soon as the window opens so why should he even worry about getting him ready for next season - either way I don't think McCoist comes out of it looking well.
The sense of entitlement among Rangers fans is staggering. The attitude seems to that they're number one and they'll be generous enough to tolerate any punishment which means they'll temporarily end up as number two. But anything beyond that is an assault on Scotland - not Rangers FC, not Rangers fans, not soccer, not sport, but the entirety of Scotland. We are the people, eh?
McCoist condemns Rangers panel threats
(AFP) – 2 hours ago
GLASGOW — Rangers manager Ally McCoist has condemned as "disgusting" threats made to the Scottish Football Association (SFA) judicial panel who imposed a 12-month transfer embargo upon the Glasgow giants.
The financial crisis engulfing the 140-year-old Scottish football institution took a sinister twist Wednesday when the SFA revealed police had given security advice to the three-member panel after their names were published online and threats made against them.
Police also gave similar advice to SFA directors.
News of the police intervention came just a day after an angry McCoist, a former Rangers and Scotland striker, had called for the panel's identities to be made public, saying their actions could "kill" the club.
"Who are these people? I want to know who these people are," he told Rangers TV. "Make no mistake about it, this is an SFA decision. >:(
"In terms of our supporters, again they have received another kicking and we just feel it's time to start fighting back." >:(
But McCoist insisted Thursday his remarks should not have been interpreted as a "signal to engage in any form of threatening behaviour". ::)
McCoist said: "I would like to make quite clear my position in relation to the decision by the SFA's judicial panel, which earlier this week imposed sanctions against Rangers which have far-reaching consequences for our club and Scottish football. ::) ::)
"When I called for full transparency ;D on Tuesday, I took the view that the decision by the judicial panel should be subject to proper scrutiny. :D
"It is unthinkable in any walk of life that such a significant punishment would be meted out without full transparency. :D
"That said, I would not for one moment want anyone to interpret my remarks as a signal to engage in any form of threatening behaviour. ???
"Such activity disgusts me and anyone who engages in it does Rangers Football Club nothing but harm.
"No Rangers supporter should get themselves involved in it -- not now, nor at any time.
Rangers went into administration two months ago, prompting a raft of drastic measures including players agreeing to wage cuts of up to 75 per cent to avoid redundancies.
The SFA hit Rangers with a £160,000 ($260,000, 195,000 euro) fine and a 12-month transfer embargo on Monday after finding the club guilty of several financial offences.
They also issued a lifetime ban to Rangers owner Craig Whyte from any future involvement in Scottish football.
McCoist added Thursday: "Rangers Football Club was a victim ;D of what happened during the tenure of Craig Whyte. :D
"The club was not an accomplice, a co-conspirator nor a perpetrator of wrongdoing. :D :D
"We suffered from it and still are. I hope that our appeal can be dealt with by the SFA as quickly as possible as the situation for the club and the possible ramifications for Scottish football are very serious." ;D
Rangers' administrators Duff and Phelps said the punishment could hinder attempts to sell the club and called for an immediate appeal hearing. :P
According to a Duff and Phelps report released earlier this month, Rangers' total debt could amount to £134 million, with the club awaiting the outcome of a tax tribunal case that could cost them £75 million. ;)
Entering administration meant Rangers were docked 10 points -- a move that effectively conceded :o the Scottish Premier League (SPL) title they held at the start of the season to arch rivals Celtic, recently crowned champions.
Rangers revealed their new kit and sponsor today.
(http://i325.photobucket.com/albums/k389/quantumleaping/AraWVLZCIAA8pocjpg-large.jpg)
Quote from: deiseach on April 26, 2012, 11:37:39 AM
The sense of entitlement among Rangers fans is staggering. The attitude seems to that they're number one and they'll be generous enough to tolerate any punishment which means they'll temporarily end up as number two. But anything beyond that is an assault on Scotland - not Rangers FC, not Rangers fans, not soccer, not sport, but the entirety of Scotland. We are the people, eh?
Yep, my fellow Scots and I are disgusted by this assault on our nationhood and are most definitely not saying anything like "nail the cheating b*stards".
if they're the people, thank f*ck I'm a sheep.
If they are liquidated can they even go to S.F.L. division 3? Think they would need an invite from the S.F.L. to do so. Also as a new club as they will be they would need three years of audited accounts to become members of the S.F.A. to gain entry into the Scottish Cup. Of course as a new club they will not have.
Quote from: dillinger on April 26, 2012, 11:15:27 PM
If they are liquidated can they even go to S.F.L. division 3? Think they would need an invite from the S.F.L. to do so. Also as a new club as they will be they would need three years of audited accounts to become members of the S.F.A. to gain entry into the Scottish Cup. Of course as a new club they will not have.
from RTE website
Third Division on cards for RangersUpdated: Thursday, 26 Apr 2012 12:42
1 Comments Ally McCoist has said that dropping down the fourth tier might be in the best interest of Rangers
Scottish Football League chief executive David Longmuir has told Rangers they will have to go through the same process as any other club if they wish to join the Third Division.
The administration-hit Scottish Premier League outfit are battling to avoid liquidation and following heavy sanctions imposed on the Ibrox club by the Scottish Football Association this week, manager Ally McCoist admitted he could now be in favour of dropping down to the fourth tier of Scottish football.
"If Rangers or anyone else applied for entry into the SFL they would have to go through the same process as Annan, Spartans FC, Preston Athletic and Cove Rangers did four years ago," Longmuir told the Daily Record.
"They would have to put a proposal to us on why they should be allowed in and then hope they were voted in by the SFL clubs.
"At the moment it's difficult for me to comment on Rangers' situation.
"But anything that brought excitement and freshness to the SFL would be something I'm interested in."
He added: "It would be the same process, given any set of circumstances.
"When Annan were welcomed in the process took a couple of months during the close season.
"In the past we've had to assess the likes of Annan, Cove and Preston on the basis of ground criteria, facilities and financial stability.
"So checks have to be done, which would obviously be a bit different if Rangers were involved.
"However, at the moment there is no vacancy in the SFL. Rangers are in administration, which is a situation other clubs have found themselves in and survived.
"The same could happen to Rangers. As a Scottish football supporter, I hope they do."
Rangers are appealing a £160,000 fine and 12-month embargo on signing players aged over 17 after being found guilty of five charges in relation to their finances and the appointment of Craig Whyte as chairman.
http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/21st-century-rules-applied-rangers/1302 (http://blogs.channel4.com/alex-thomsons-view/21st-century-rules-applied-rangers/1302)
The company is going to be liquidated. As the clever chap over at Random Thoughts re Scots Law (http://scotslawthoughts.wordpress.com/2012/04/21/bill-miller-truck-tycoon-rides-to-rangers-rescue-but-will-it-be-miller-time/#more-1028) said, "there are two ways out of administration, in the same way that there are two ways out of an intensive care ward: the road to recovery, or the road to the mortuary. A company will either be saved, or wound up". And the debts Rangers have are too gargantuan to be anything other than fatal.
The only question is what emerges after that. People still support Fiorentina and Cork City despite each club going through an (ahem) interregnum. It's a bit more complicated with Rangers because Craig Whyte and Ticketus are going to want their pound of flesh before any Newco can emerge. But eventually something will re-appear that will call itself Rangers. Whether anyone will take it seriously remains to be seen.
Quote from: deiseach on April 27, 2012, 09:44:10 AMBut eventually something will re-appear that will call itself Rangers. Whether anyone will take it seriously remains to be seen.
there's no reason why they shouldn't. It's happened all across Europe, and many clubs have been reborn as new businesses. What people won't take seriously is the Scottish Football System*, if the new Rangers are merely allowed to slot in at the top, ahead of all the other clubs that managed to keep their spending under control. Clubs coming out of administration (e.g. Dundee, Motherwell) can continue, as they are the same entity, clubs liquidating and refounding (e.g. Livingston) or not (e.g Gretna) should start from the bottom. The problem is that Livi and Gretna were SFL* clubs and not SPL clubs at the time they liquidated, and SPL rules don't clearly cover this eventuality - the other issue is that the SPL is a 1-division league, and therefore it is the bottom division.
*SFA - national football authority, largely powerless, run by self-interested blazers, progenitors of sh*te football teams since 1998
SPL - Scottish premier league, closed shop for 12 clubs at the top of the game, grudgingly allows 1 up/1 down, if forced, run by self-interested blazers
SFL - Scottish Football League, plods along, neither doing anything good nor bad, always manages to produce an exciting and competitive first division, run by self-interested blazers
SJFA - Scottish Junior Football Association, non-league, but with no pyramid system, teams cannot enter SFA/SFL/SPL competitions, until 3 years ago, when some can now enter the cup. Run by ...
As a Celtic fan I hope Rangers survive, it is not the fault of their fans that the board was as incompetent as it has been they should however be automatically relegated an appropriate number of places/leagues. Celtic fans should also remember that there but for the grace of Fergus Celtic could have gone.
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 27, 2012, 11:40:07 AM
As a Celtic fan I hope Rangers survive, it is not the fault of their fans that the board was as incompetent as it has been they should however be automatically relegated an appropriate number of places/leagues. Celtic fans should also remember that there but for the grace of Fergus Celtic could have gone.
I'm not a Celtic fan, and I'm a bit bewildered by this. The Rangers board weren't incompetent. If they were incompetent Rangers would have slid down the table and we wouldn't be having this conversation. They were corrupt, and their corruption corrupted the rest of the game in Scotland. It is hard on Rangers supporters, and the notion that they should have risen up against Murray and Whyte is daft. But their philosophy now that they've found themselves in this position seems to be "we realise there has to be a punishment, but it had better not inconvenience us". And that's even more daft
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 27, 2012, 11:40:07 AM
As a Celtic fan I hope Rangers survive, it is not the fault of their fans that the board was as incompetent as it has been they should however be automatically relegated an appropriate number of places/leagues. Celtic fans should also remember that there but for the grace of Fergus Celtic could have gone.
Incompetent is a kind way to describe it, I dont think I would use that term they cleverly used accounting schemes to hide from the tax man so that they could out spend Celtic in the transfer market and on players wages. Im not even a Celtic fan per say but this has annoyed me blaming Craig Whyte for everything, their wrong doings have been going on for 15 years or more maybe so they should be made take their medicine and like it.
Ticketus have withdrawn their support (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/17867822) for the Blue Knights bid (don't say it too loudly, these guys (http://www.followfollow.com/news/tmnw/ticketus_debt_smashed_by_17m_in_stunning_paul_murray_deal_737890/index.shtml) might hear). We're entering the end game now.
What does this hand Celtic - the next 4 league titles. Lower gates due to less interest and rivalry. Will there be any interest in supporting a formality. The Scottish league could be damaged as a competition. Can Celtic flourish without a Rangers. Can there be a yes without a no, a black without a white? It will be like the Munster championship has been for generations, and the supporters will only go to the final.
Quote from: deiseach on April 27, 2012, 11:54:18 AM
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 27, 2012, 11:40:07 AM
As a Celtic fan I hope Rangers survive, it is not the fault of their fans that the board was as incompetent as it has been they should however be automatically relegated an appropriate number of places/leagues. Celtic fans should also remember that there but for the grace of Fergus Celtic could have gone.
I'm not a Celtic fan, and I'm a bit bewildered by this. The Rangers board weren't incompetent. If they were incompetent Rangers would have slid down the table and we wouldn't be having this conversation. They were corrupt, and their corruption corrupted the rest of the game in Scotland. It is hard on Rangers supporters, and the notion that they should have risen up against Murray and Whyte is daft. But their philosophy now that they've found themselves in this position seems to be "we realise there has to be a punishment, but it had better not inconvenience us". And that's even more daft
I thought long and hard about describing it as you have and went for incompetent as an opinion as opposed to corruption which I couldn't prove.
Quote from: rrhf on April 27, 2012, 01:56:34 PM
Can Celtic flourish without a Rangers. Can there be a yes without a no, a black without a white?
(http://lukeromyn.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/bush_confused.jpg)
Quote from: Applesisapples on April 27, 2012, 01:57:47 PM
I thought long and hard about describing it as you have and went for incompetent as an opinion as opposed to corruption which I couldn't prove.
That would be an ecumenical matter
(http://www.balls.ie/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/21N8g.jpg)
@Marty_Morrissey
'We're Rangers til we die'
'No... 'You're rangers til July'
I think Rangers and Celtic should join together to form one club called Glasgow City.
Quote from: laoislad on April 30, 2012, 04:28:00 PM
I think Rangers and Celtic should join together to form one club called Glasgow City.
How about Ran-tic?
Glasgow City (http://www.glasgowcityladiesfc.co.uk/) already exist. I wonder will they give Rangers a dig-out?
Glasgow Hotspur then.
Quote from: ziggysego on April 30, 2012, 04:20:33 PM
@Marty_Morrissey
'We're Rangers til we die'
'No... 'You're rangers til July'
Wasn't that what the Celtic fans were chanting yesterday?
Rangers supporters yesterday.....a great bunch of lads......... ::)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NNe6zibaKA
Quote from: rrhf on April 27, 2012, 01:56:34 PM
What does this hand Celtic - the next 4 league titles. Lower gates due to less interest and rivalry. Will there be any interest in supporting a formality. The Scottish league could be damaged as a competition. Can Celtic flourish without a Rangers. Can there be a yes without a no, a black without a white? It will be like the Munster championship has been for generations, and the supporters will only go to the final.
If Rangers are forced to start anew in the lowest league, Celtic can survive for a few seasons while they await their return to the top division. Naturally Celtic fans will be tormented by sentiments of sympathy for the plight of their fellow (blue nose) Glaswegians but I imagine the Celtic fans will get through this sticky phase.
Rangers will not totally disappear.
Celtic finances are sound and the club will be looking forward to the return of the wounded beast as they slowly stagger their way up through the divisions.
I can't say the same for most of the other clubs in the SPL, an important part of their budget is Rangers related. Those clubs are like junkies waiting for the windfall
that a match against Rangers brings (tickets sales and then there's the tv money). A 3 or 4 notch belt tightening for all the other SPL clubs (except Celtic) will be in order.
what happens Ibrox and Murray park if Rangers have to fold and start again?
Rangers FC 2013 Line up - Naismith, Naifuture, Naiclass, Naimoney, Naistadium, Naihope, Naitrophies, Naiprospects, Naifans, Naimanager, Naiplayers.
Quote from: ballinaman on May 01, 2012, 12:10:40 PM
Rangers FC 2013 Line up - Naismith, Naifuture, Naiclass, Naimoney, Naistadium, Naihope, Naitrophies, Naiprospects, Naifans, Naimanager, Naiplayers.
;D
Wouldn't it be hilarious now if some oil-baron bought them out and they won everything for the next 20 years.
Bill Miller is nearing a takeover of Rangers after an unconditional bid saw the American businessman granted preferred bidder status by administrators Duff and Phelps.
The tow truck tycoon was vying for control with the Blue Knights consortium led by former Rangers director Paul Murray and backed by Sale Sharks owner Brian Kennedy and now appears to have won the race to succeed Craig Whyte as owner.
Miller last month unveiled plans for an £11.2million bid for Rangers which would create what he described as an 'incubator' company while Duff and Phelps bid to take the club out of administration through a Creditors Voluntary Arrangement.
Breathing space? Bill Miller's bid has been given preferred status
Breathing space? Bill Miller's bid has been given preferred status
Joint administrator Paul Clark informed staff of the news at a meeting at Ibrox on Thursday morning.
Clark was quoted on the club's official website saying: 'We would like to thank all parties for their efforts in seeking to submit bids which preserve the long history and success of the club.
'We are delighted to announce that today we have received an unconditional bid for the business and assets of Rangers Football Club plc from Mr Bill Miller which has been accepted in principle and he is now the preferred bidder.
Saviour? Bill Miller could be the man to rescue Rangers
Saviour? Bill Miller could be the man to rescue Rangers
'Mr Miller now proposes to complete his transaction by the end of the season.'
David Whitehouse, of Duff and Clark, told a press conference that they hoped to complete an agreement with Miller and with the club's creditors before the end of the current season.
Whitehouse said Miller was seeking clarity over sanctions imposed against Rangers because of administration and that his bid was the best for the club and avoided the need for liquidation.
Whitehouse said: 'I'd like to announce that today we've received an unconditional bid from Mr Bill Miller which has been accepted and he is now the preferred bidder.
'Mr Miller now proposes to complete the transaction before the end of the season.
'We believe the bid from Mr Miller provides not only the best deliverable outcome but preserves the history of the club.
'Rangers Football Club will continue as the football club it has for some 140 years.'
'Mr Miller and his team have sought clarity in relation to any potential footballing sanctions.
'Very importantly the bid avoids the need for liquidation. All too often the term liquidation has been bandied about during this process without a clear understanding of what it actually means.
'There is no liquidation involved in this strategy and we cannot stress that strongly enough.'
Looking out: Administrators David Whitehouse (left) and Paul Clark (right)
Looking out: Administrators David Whitehouse (left) and Paul Clark (right)
Whitehouse revealed that Miller's bid would achieve the terms of a Creditors Voluntary Agreement which would guarantee creditors were not left empty-handed.
'Mr Miller's bid achieves that criteria,' he added.
'Mr Miller's proposal is the only unconditional bid we have received. The bid proposed by Mr Miller is greater than any other and provides the best return to creditors.'
Miller's bid will also help resolve the issue of the majority shareholding in the club which is controlled by former owner Craig Whyte.
Whitehouse continued: 'The bid from Mr Miller provides the best framework to deal with the issue of Rangers' majority shareholding.
'We confirm that we envisage the sale of the club will be completed by the end of the current season. We hope fans will now support and appreciate the commitment made by Mr Miller.
'We expect to enter into a binding agreement with Mr Miller very soon.'
Quote from: thejuice on May 03, 2012, 01:09:09 PM
Wouldn't it be hilarious now if some oil-baron bought them out and they won everything for the next 20 years.
Even funnier if they were bought by a "tow truck tycoon" instead.
It looks like the fix is in. They're planning to spin Rangers's debts off into a company with a revenue stream of zero pounds. Meanwhile the bits that have value are voted into the SPL as if nothing happened. I don't see it working. You have to have the agreement of 75% of creditors to get a CVA and HMRC cannot be seen to be agreeing to such a preposterous settlement, especially in the light of their craven bargain with Vodafone (amongst others). But they - and by 'they', I include the SPL - are clearly going to try.
Quote from: thejuice on May 03, 2012, 01:09:09 PM
Wouldn't it be hilarious now if some oil-baron bought them out and they won everything for the next 20 years.
as hilarious as meath winning nothing for the next twenty years.
Poor, very poor.
ouch :D
Miller withdraws his bid.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e8bf284e-9928-11e1-9a57-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1uJq7xFhR
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on May 08, 2012, 11:15:30 PM
Miller withdraws his bid.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e8bf284e-9928-11e1-9a57-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1uJq7xFhR
some craic, can this shower of hoors stoop any lower? I don't want them to go under but feck me I love the embarrassment that is being meted out on a regular basis.
throw the cnuts in the lowest division, fine them a shit load of money, tell them they cant sign any players for a year (done already) and let them scrap to get back into the SPL.
So now the new preferred group will enter the fray, I hope to feck they tell them to feck away aff and then they would be on their merry way to the third best preferred owner.
One last thing, Rangers fans chanting at Miller 'yanks go home' is classic, well done Rangers fans, take a bow you idiots!
Reading between the lines, I get the feeling what finally put Miller off is that The People will not tolerate Rangers being run on a profit-and-loss basis. Once this corrupt bargain had gone through and the Newco had picked up Ibrox for a song, which appealed to a smart businessman like Miller, he would be expected to stump up the money to buy Lionel Messi or face the wrath of the mob. Not so appealing. The ironic thing is that he was exactly what Rangers needed after the hubris of Murray and the sheer banditry of Whyte. Repel at haste, repent at leisure - and Rangers fans are going to have a lot of leisure ahead
Miller probably discovered that he hasn't got the tow truck required for the task of dragging Old Rangers to New Rangers.
Has the big fund raiser at Windsor happened yet?
There'll be a few 100 thousand raised there.
Quote from: johnneycool on May 09, 2012, 03:48:09 PM
Has the big fund raiser at Windsor happened yet?
There'll be a few 100 thousand raised there.
£80,000 I heard. Can't imagine how, only 7,000 turned up for it.
Quote from: ziggysego on May 09, 2012, 04:07:21 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 09, 2012, 03:48:09 PM
Has the big fund raiser at Windsor happened yet?
There'll be a few 100 thousand raised there.
£80,000 I heard. Can't imagine how, only 7,000 turned up for it.
I am surprised that many turned up, that shithole is a deathtrap.
I wonder how many norn iron fans turned up, I am sure wee marty would claim not a one of them!
Quote from: hardstation on May 09, 2012, 04:18:17 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on May 09, 2012, 04:07:21 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 09, 2012, 03:48:09 PM
Has the big fund raiser at Windsor happened yet?
There'll be a few 100 thousand raised there.
£80,000 I heard. Can't imagine how, only 7,000 turned up for it.
£10 in and then a raffle?
I'm surprised Miller hasn't reconsidered his position after hearing that £80K was raised like that. That'll put a huge dent in the debt!
I wonder how much it cost Rangers to travel over?
Quote from: hardstation on May 09, 2012, 04:18:17 PM
£10 in and then a raffle?
Booby prize: a Rangers season ticket
Quote from: Bingo on May 09, 2012, 04:46:33 PM
Quote from: deiseach on May 09, 2012, 04:41:28 PM
Quote from: hardstation on May 09, 2012, 04:18:17 PM
£10 in and then a raffle?
Booby prize: a Rangers season ticket
No, Booby prize: Rangers
Possibly the first raffle where the prize is worth less than the cost of the ticket.
I think the tickets cost £20.00
Rangers to be sold to Charles Green.
Is that them out of administration in time to get into Europe next season?
Rangers old/new/borrowed 'til blue will not be allowed to participate in European competition next year and probably for another 2 years after that.
No joy with their appeal anocht.
Which is nice.
What is happening with them as of late?
Are they dropping down the leagues, or remaining in the SPL?
Quote from: stew on May 09, 2012, 04:37:00 PM
Quote from: ziggysego on May 09, 2012, 04:07:21 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on May 09, 2012, 03:48:09 PM
Has the big fund raiser at Windsor happened yet?
There'll be a few 100 thousand raised there.
£80,000 I heard. Can't imagine how, only 7,000 turned up for it.
I am surprised that many turned up, that shithole is a deathtrap.
I wonder how many norn iron fans turned up, I am sure wee marty would claim not a one of them!
"Deathtrap"?
Have you informed Belfast City Council?
Or UEFA?
FIFA, perhaps?
I really feel for the 14,098 who risked their lives at Harry Gregg's Testimonial last night, even if they were all Prods*:
http://www.manutd.com/en/News-And-Features/Football-News/2012/May/Harry-Gregg-testimonial-match-report.aspx
* - I'm assuming that it was only MU's Protestant fans in NI who turned out, since we are forever being assured that no Catholic could ever risk going anywhere near that Sectarian cesspit, even to watch MU play... ::)
Id agree with you on this. Once you remove any semblance of sectarianism or perception rightly or wrongly of same for the venue or teams then the crowd doubles from 7 to 14K. Interesting but progressive thought on your part. Can anyone else get those lightbulb moments...
Does your logic illustrate that a shared futuristic stadium at the Maze may actually have worked. ie 16k might have become 32k at matches. Go on open up your mind further... We may actually be getting somewhere. Hold the diggers guys we are back on in Lisburn...
Or maybe the difference was at the Harry Gregg testimonial there wasnt a section of fans singing the 'Billy Boys' or the 'Sash' as Big David beat his drum a couple of weeks previous as his team were crowned champions.
People knowing this wouldnt be the case maybe felt more comfortable going there.
Programme on BBC1 at the minute.
Damn good programme. This kind of thing normally falls flat due to the lack of a smoking gun and there probably wasn't an hour of television in it. We really could have done without Sammy Billyboy and his "ah wan aghn-sewers" routine, and the scene with Mark Daly's soliloquy into his phone was risible - were we seriously meant to believe Duff & Phelps' PR monkey was patiently sitting at the other end while he went through that rant? Still, it was informative and pretty damning. The 'data room' conceit worked very well in terms of explaining what EBT's were about and who benefitted from them. They clearly demonstrated that D&P are hopelessly compromised as impartial administrators - the allegations may not be true, but there was prima facie evidence of a conflict of interest that has to rule them out. And the Souness revelation might will bring the London press sniffing around it some more. Overall, a good effort by Mark Daly and co
Any wonder why Souness has been so quiet on the whole affair
thought it was a good programme too.
Looks like Daly got most of his information from http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/ (http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/) which very appropriately won the Orwell Prize http://theorwellprize.co.uk/news/orwell-prize-2012-winners-announced/ (http://theorwellprize.co.uk/news/orwell-prize-2012-winners-announced/) last night.
All in all a good night for a very educational blog. I'd say there are several EPL clubs now dunging their togs and cranking up the shredders.
So Rangers were brought down by a porn star. Bound to be a joke in that somewhere.
... and almost rescued by a bin man.
Quote from: Main Street on May 24, 2012, 11:32:17 AM
... and almost rescued by a bin man.
So what's the story with these preferred bidders? They were dropping like flies the last I heard, yet the administrators were going to have someone in place by friday, friday two weeks ago!!
Quote from: passedit on May 24, 2012, 10:34:58 AM
Looks like Daly got most of his information from http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/ (http://rangerstaxcase.wordpress.com/) which very appropriately won the Orwell Prize http://theorwellprize.co.uk/news/orwell-prize-2012-winners-announced/ (http://theorwellprize.co.uk/news/orwell-prize-2012-winners-announced/) last night.
All in all a good night for a very educational blog. I'd say there are several EPL clubs now dunging their togs and cranking up the shredders.
yeah, there's bound to be a few shredders doing overtime in england today ;D
Look like Rangers CVA proposal may run into a few difficulties..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9325125/Rapid-Vienna-to-oppose-Rangers-CVA-due-to-unpaid-Nikica-Jelavic-fee.html
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on June 12, 2012, 10:34:08 AM
Look like Rangers CVA proposal may run into a few difficulties..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9325125/Rapid-Vienna-to-oppose-Rangers-CVA-due-to-unpaid-Nikica-Jelavic-fee.html
And one really big, Hector-shaped difficulty.
HMRC to reject Rangers CVA proposal at creditors meeting (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18407309)
Quote from: deiseach on June 12, 2012, 12:11:59 PM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on June 12, 2012, 10:34:08 AM
Look like Rangers CVA proposal may run into a few difficulties..
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/rangers/9325125/Rapid-Vienna-to-oppose-Rangers-CVA-due-to-unpaid-Nikica-Jelavic-fee.html
And one really big, Hector-shaped difficulty.
HMRC to reject Rangers CVA proposal at creditors meeting (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18407309)
From The Guardian
"There's news breaking on Rangers' financial meltdown. It looks like they are liquidating the plc that has historically run the club, resulting in an automatic three-year European ban. They will also need rival SPL clubs to agree for them to stay in the league, otherwise..."
sky news are reporting that ally mc coist is set to resign today or tomorrow. it seems that the new owner Charles green wants him out.
Quote from: guy crouchback on June 14, 2012, 11:21:52 AM
sky news are reporting that ally mc coist is set to resign today or tomorrow. it seems that the new owner Charles green wants him out.
Thons a job tailor made for harry redknapp ;D
Rangers new owner is called 'Green'?? Class.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 14, 2012, 11:36:15 AM
Rangers new owner is called 'Green'?? Class.
Rangers new owner is called HMRC.
They'll be more than pleased to be owned by her majesty's revenue and customs.
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 14, 2012, 11:36:15 AM
Rangers new owner is called 'Green'?? Class.
It's pronounced Gren.
Quote from: saffron sam2 on June 14, 2012, 12:07:19 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on June 14, 2012, 11:36:15 AM
Rangers new owner is called 'Green'?? Class.
It's pronounced Gren.
Was that part of the deal, when he bought Rangers?
Scottish PFA are saying that Rangers players are not obliged to accept the contract offered by Newco, and can choose to simply walk away. This is different to what Green said earlier in the week.
Ally may also be poised for a return to Question of Sport?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/18440159
Rangers have declined to comment on reports manager Ally McCoist is poised to quit the club.
Quote from: Hound on June 14, 2012, 01:14:49 PM
Scottish PFA are saying that Rangers players are not obliged to accept the contract offered by Newco, and can choose to simply walk away. This is different to what Green said earlier in the week.
I suppose TUPE comes into play here
Now Walter Smith jumps in with a last minute offer to buy the assets of Rangers FC (In administration).
This story just runs and runs.
too late for uncle wattie!!! on ssn - Charles Green confirms that he has purchased rangers. the newco is called 'The Rangers Football Club'.
Quote from: clarshack on June 14, 2012, 04:51:23 PM
too late for uncle wattie!!! on ssn - Charles Green confirms that he has purchased rangers. the newco is called 'The Rangers Football Club'.
Heard Roddy forsythe on 5live yesterday afternoon, he reckons McCoist is gone after a meeting with Green and a conference call with some ex Rangers director in South Africa. McCoist accused Green of wanting him out and said this ex director told him Green had said it, got the lad on the phone and he reiterated that Green had told him he wanted a new manager. Phone call ended and the two had a bit of a barney.
Forsythe was at the creditors meeting and said neither Green or McCoist made eye contact with each other and left via different doors.
I'd have thought Green would have been better off keeping McCoist onside to win over the fans!!
RANGERS are looking at an astonishing plan to buy out League One club Bury — so they can play in England.
The Scottish club were bought last week by Charles Green for £6million but are in liquidation.
Rangers could face starting next season in Scottish Division Three — if SPL clubs vote next month against their bid to be allowed back in this term.
Green is looking at other options, including buying Bury and playing English league games in Glasgow.
They would want to start immediately by taking up Bury's fixtures for next season.
The Greater Manchester club kick off with a home game against Brentford on August 18.
There is strong opposition to Rangers being invited back into the Scottish Premier League.
The SPL fixture list currently has 'Club 12' listed until the other 11 clubs vote on July 4.
Rangers do not want to start right at the bottom of the Scottish professional leagues and have long been touted for a place south of the border, along with Old Firm rivals Celtic.
A source told SunSport: "Yes, Rangers really are thinking about this.
"They are in a position at the moment where they have no idea what the future holds.
"They don't know whether they will be in the SPL next season and do not want to go to the bottom of the ladder.
"Acquiring an English club would get them the foothold they have always wanted down south."
It is not clear whether the amazing plan to buy is even allowed under Football League rules in England or Scotland.
But there are precedents with Welsh club Swansea playing in the English Premier League and rivals Cardiff in the Championship.
Berwick is actually a town in England but their football team plays in Scottish Division Three.
Also, Wimbledon moved 60 miles north to Milton Keynes before being renamed Milton Keynes Dons in 2004.
Bury fans are sure to be furious at the suggestions to take their club more than 200 miles north.
thesun.co.uk (http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/football/4385272/Rangers-plan-to-buy-Bury-and-play-in-English-League-One.html)
Who is the strong opposition to Rangers rejoining the SPL? Celtic? Are their revenues not built up by having a major rival across town.
it seems that most of the opposition to letting rangers rejoin the SPL actually comes from the fans and not the clubs (boards) themselves. Most board members are looking at the fact of they dont let rangers back in they will see a decrease of tv money etc. However from a fans point of view letting a new club straight back into the top flight after the club previous to that cheated and dodged tax for a decade before would seriously undermine the whole league. A real catch 22 situation. i personally think they shouldnt be allowed to rejoin. it would give clubs, especially celtic the chance to downsize for the next few years, and not have to compete against a club who were basically getting unfair cash injections. it would also go to show that financial wrong doings will not be tolerated.
Looks like there might be a compromise to let Rangers back into the SPL then relegate them to Div 1 and let them start there. Dundee would be "promoted" into the SPL.
QuoteRANGERS are looking at an astonishing plan to buy out League One club Bury — so they can play in England.
"Bury Rangers". That has to be a piss take!!
Vladimir Romanov certainly doesn't miss when he lets fly.
Rangers to be voted out of SPL
http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2012/0625/1224318717178.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2012/0625/1224318717178.html)
I am looking forward to seeing how this soap opera will pan out! Really the club should be made start from scratch in the bottom league, but there's huge politics and you could still see some side door for the hoars.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 25, 2012, 10:57:18 PM
Rangers to be voted out of SPL
http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2012/0625/1224318717178.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2012/0625/1224318717178.html)
I am looking forward to seeing how this soap opera will pan out! Really the club should be made start from scratch in the bottom league, but there's huge politics and you could still see some side door for the hoars.
Of course they should start at the bottom but you don't see turkeys voting for Christmas. Too much loot tied up in the Old Firm and the clubs know their money will take a hit if the tv companies lose interest which they surely will if it is a poor Celtic side sitting 20 points ahead of the second placed team.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on June 26, 2012, 12:08:56 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 25, 2012, 10:57:18 PM
Rangers to be voted out of SPL
http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2012/0625/1224318717178.html (http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2012/0625/1224318717178.html)
I am looking forward to seeing how this soap opera will pan out! Really the club should be made start from scratch in the bottom league, but there's huge politics and you could still see some side door for the hoars.
Of course they should start at the bottom but you don't see turkeys voting for Christmas. Too much loot tied up in the Old Firm and the clubs know their money will take a hit if the tv companies lose interest which they surely will if it is a poor Celtic side sitting 20 points ahead of the second placed team.
To keep up with Celtic one of the other clubs doesn't have to be better than Celtic, they just have to be better than all the rest, which would surely spur a few of them on.
Been reading the blog 'Rangers Tax Case', amazed at how much the other teams fans seem to despise Rangers, much more so than Celtic, I always thought it was the other way about.
I think its the fact that the other clubs now look at Rangers and think that they were cheating (which they effectively were) to all those titles and trophies. So they see this as the only chance probably to put one over on them for that.
Quote from: NAG1 on June 26, 2012, 11:43:14 AM
I think its the fact that the other clubs not look at Rangers and think that they were cheating (which they effectively were) to all those titles and trophies. So they see this as the only chance probably to put one over on them for that.
If Celtic fc had indulged in such shenanigans they would surely have been regarded with at least the same ignominy.
The odds are already stacked against the other clubs without one of the big 2 indulging in such card sharkery.
But of course Celtic fc do not indulge is such things, they have built up their club to be stable, almost virtuos, and have adjusted well to the ravages of radically reduced income. Celtic fc are a shining light in Scotland, an example of a great support and a great club, recognised by those who know about such things ;D
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on June 26, 2012, 09:23:37 AM
Been reading the blog 'Rangers Tax Case', amazed at how much the other teams fans seem to despise Rangers, much more so than Celtic, I always thought it was the other way about.
The amazing thing is that Rangers fans cannot accept that club must be diminished in some way. Oh, they say they accept the need for punishment but only one which leaves them still in a position to win trophies next season! It's been hilarious watching them claim each backward step is something they welcome.
Quote from: Main Street on June 26, 2012, 11:55:29 AM
Quote from: NAG1 on June 26, 2012, 11:43:14 AM
I think its the fact that the other clubs not look at Rangers and think that they were cheating (which they effectively were) to all those titles and trophies. So they see this as the only chance probably to put one over on them for that.
If Celtic fc had indulged in such shenanigans they would surely have been regarded with at least the same ignominy.
The odds are already stacked against the other clubs without one of the big 2 indulging in such card sharkery.
But of course Celtic fc do not indulge is such things, they have built up their club to be stable, almost virtuos, and have adjusted well to the ravages of radically reduced income. Celtic fc are a shining light in Scotland, an example of a great support and a great club, recognised by those who know about such things ;D
Are Celtic really that financially sound? I thought they had a mountain of debt too?
Quote from: amallon on June 26, 2012, 01:45:47 PM
Are Celtic really that financially sound? I thought they had a mountain of debt too?
Morally flush and with a dwindling financial debt, about £7m.
Old Rangers players refusing to join Mr Green's New Rangers. All walking away.
http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/157573.html?CMP=OTC-RSS (http://www.espn.co.uk/football/sport/story/157573.html?CMP=OTC-RSS)
Quote from: Lecale2 on June 21, 2012, 01:03:52 PM
QuoteRANGERS are looking at an astonishing plan to buy out League One club Bury — so they can play in England.
"Bury Rangers". That has to be a piss take!!
Greens Bury Rangers!
Rangers: Sandy Jardine blast at 'greedy' exiting players
Rangers legend Sandy Jardine has accused of "greed" the eight players refusing to have their contracts switched to a new company.
Jardine claims they have reneged on an agreement to do so made before the takeover by Charles Green's consortium.
"There was an agreement reached over wage cuts and they got a great deal because they could leave for rock-bottom prices," he said.
Rangers crisis explained
Rangers went into administration owing up to £134m to unsecured creditors and will eventually be liquidated.
As a result its registrations with the Scottish FA and Scottish Premier League were terminated.
Charles Green led a consortium which bought Rangers' assets for £5.5m.
The former Sheffield United chief executive is reforming Rangers as a new company.
But the 'newco' will not get the required votes for re-admittance to the SPL.
Instead the new Rangers is expected to start life in the Scottish Football League.
"And now they have seen an opportunity. In many ways, it's greed."
Captain Steven Davis, plus Allan McGregor, Kyle Lafferty and Jamie Ness became the latest players to lodge objections to having their contracts switched to a "newco" Rangers.
Steven Naismith, Steven Whittaker, Sone Aluko and Rhys McCabe last week claimed to be free agents as a result of the old club heading for liquidation.
They had cited the likelihood of Rangers being demoted from the Scottish Premier League as the reason for their decision.
But Jardine believes their motives are purely financial and that their actions will deny Rangers vital funds as they seek to rebuild.
"I am dismayed and disappointed by the actions of the eight players," the club ambassador told Rangers' website.
"What they have done is seen an opportunity - whether it is them or their agents - to maximise their income.
Northern Ireland striker Lafferty is one of the eight players who are leaving Rangers
"The players took a salary sacrifice. But, for that, they got clauses in their contracts which would allow them to leave on rock bottom prices if clubs came in for them.
"I have to be honest and say I think the players have used our predicament to their gain."
The new Rangers face the prospect of losing a vote among the 12 SPL clubs and face another battle for admission to Division One or the Third Division next season.
"Of course, we as a club don't expect international players to go down a division or a few divisions," said former Rangers defender Jardine.
"We would be reluctant to see them go, but we would understand. They would move on with our best wishes and we would get a fee - albeit a rock bottom price in comparison to their market value.
"What we don't have an answer for is why the players simply did not adhere to the original deal and allow the club to make money from these reduced fees.
"What we have to do in our situation is to get everything sorted out, know what league we are in, know what players are staying and then start to build from there.
"If we don't have money from fees for players leaving - which we are completely entitled to - then what are we supposed to build on, fresh air?"
i'm guessing some do walking away
Quote from: trasna man on June 27, 2012, 04:33:44 PM
"If we don't have money from fees for players leaving - which we are completely entitled to - then what are we supposed to build on, fresh air?"
You could always withhold your taxes or borrow money and not pay it back
Quote from: deiseach on June 27, 2012, 05:14:38 PM
Quote from: trasna man on June 27, 2012, 04:33:44 PM
"If we don't have money from fees for players leaving - which we are completely entitled to - then what are we supposed to build on, fresh air?"
You could always withhold your taxes or borrow money and not pay it back
I really havent followed this too closely - but basically this newco want to start with none of the debts but all their assets?
Quote from: nifan on June 27, 2012, 05:47:19 PM
I really havent followed this too closely - but basically this newco want to start with none of the debts but all their assets?
Yep. And 'assets' include all the players. I think that was/is Green's plan. Ibrox and Murray Park are not worth £5.5 million, even to Tesco. But the players could have been in the right circumstances, and that was how he planned to make his money back. Not going to happen now.
i think the main asset that came with the purchase was goodwill. The significant Rangers FC (oldco) support could surely be viewed as having a material value far in excess of the purchase price. The risk being taken here isn't really the players contracts, or the division in which they (newco) end up playing, but rather whether newco can retain the same sort of brand loyalty as oldco. Ihave to imagine that is a fairly low risk, as the Rangers brand is one that many people identify with due to their heritage and socioeconomic backgrounds both in Scotland and Northern Ireland. I'm not clear on whether the land and grounds come with the purchase but if they do, that would be the icing on the cake...
In my view 5million was a steal
Quote from: heganboy on June 27, 2012, 06:36:13 PM
i think the main asset that came with the purchase was goodwill. The significant Rangers FC (oldco) support could surely be viewed as having a material value far in excess of the purchase price. The risk being taken here isn't really the players contracts, or the division in which they (newco) end up playing, but rather whether newco can retain the same sort of brand loyalty as oldco. Ihave to imagine that is a fairly low risk, as the Rangers brand is one that many people identify with due to their heritage and socioeconomic backgrounds both in Scotland and Northern Ireland. I'm not clear on whether the land and grounds come with the purchase but if they do, that would be the icing on the cake...
In my view 5million was a steal
As things stand, it's looking like Green is the one who has been robbed. Unless the SFA/SPL cobble together some corrupt bargain, Rangers are not going to have a league to play in next season. How many times can the Rangers Globetrotters play Linfield to tap into that 'brand'?
(http://www.vanityprojectfanzine.com/football/EastStirling012.JPG)
EastStirling of the Scottish third Division beckons!
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 27, 2012, 07:03:26 PM
EastStirling of the Scottish third Division beckons!
Looks like there are a few first division clubs don't want newco Rangers amongst their flock. The 3rd division does beckon.
How long before there's a newer newco?
Bizarre attempted stroke by the SFA to merge the SPL and 1st division.
Its highly possible that there will be no rangers in any league next season.
They are runnng out of time.
Quote from: tommysmith on June 27, 2012, 07:51:20 PM
Its highly possible that there will be no rangers in any league next season.
They are runnng out of time.
Despite disliking the club, I would not like to see it disappear, even for a year!
Quote from: Main Street on June 27, 2012, 07:47:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 27, 2012, 07:03:26 PM
EastStirling of the Scottish third Division beckons!
Looks like there are a few first division clubs don't want newco Rangers amongst their flock. The 3rd division does beckon.
How long before there's a newer newco?
Bizarre attempted stroke by the SFA to merge the SPL and 1st division.
There are criteria for clubs hoping to enter the SFL division 3 and apparently the newco doesn't meet them. There are other small teams who are waiting to join.
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on June 27, 2012, 11:38:58 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 27, 2012, 07:47:42 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 27, 2012, 07:03:26 PM
EastStirling of the Scottish third Division beckons!
Looks like there are a few first division clubs don't want newco Rangers amongst their flock. The 3rd division does beckon.
How long before there's a newer newco?
Bizarre attempted stroke by the SFA to merge the SPL and 1st division.
There are criteria for clubs hoping to enter the SFL division 3 and apparently the newco doesn't meet them. There are other small teams who are waiting to join.
Sure the Irish League has enough sectarianism to spare to make them feel at home.
I thought that to gain entry to even the 3rd Div in Scotland a club had to produce 3 years of financial results?
If so - unless a dodgy deal is struck - newco has zero chance of getting in
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 27, 2012, 07:03:26 PM
(http://www.vanityprojectfanzine.com/football/EastStirling012.JPG)
EastStirling of the Scottish third Division beckons!
In fairness, how could third division teams cope week in week out with the crowd Rangers would bring?
Could they try get into the English league?
If the fans really really really want to follow Rangers, then I suggest they familiaise themselves with the map below:
(http://www.ninis.nisra.gov.uk/mapxtreme_towns/viewmap/Crossmaglen.jpg)
I can think of no set of fans in the world who would be happier to have their pitch occupied by the brave chaps of the British Army.
sfl clubs now being bullied into accepting rangers to div 1:
http://sport.stv.tv/football/clubs/rangers/108463-in-full-document-sent-to-sfl-clubs-to-put-rangers-into-the-first-division/
scandalous document imho. it couldnt be more pro rangers if it tried.
Interesting times in Scottish football just now.
Rangers in crisis: Steven Whittaker moves to Norwich City while Kyle Lafferty seals FC Sion deal
Kyle Lafferty and Steven Whittaker today put the Rangers saga behind them by completing moves to new clubs.
Moving on: Steven Whittaker said he was "really looking forward to the challenge of playing in the Premier League"
By Telegraph Sport
2:11PM BST 30 Jun 2012
Norwich confirmed the signing of defender Whittaker on a four-year deal, while Swiss club FC Sion landed striker Kyle Lafferty on a three-year deal.
Both players this week rejected a transfer to the newco Rangers.
Scotland international defender Whittaker announced on Sunday he would not be reporting back to Murray Park for training this week.
And Northern Ireland international striker Lafferty followed suit, considering himself free to find a new club.
Norwich today announced the signing of 28-year-old Whittaker, subject to international clearance, becoming new manager Chris Hughton's first signing in the process.
Strange move for Big Kyle, that one came out of left-field. FC Sion finished 9th in Swiss League last season although docked points for transfer irregularities.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on June 30, 2012, 10:28:20 PM
Strange move for Big Kyle, that one came out of left-field. FC Sion finished 9th in Swiss League last season although docked points for transfer irregularities.
He should feel quite at home then, he should be used to dodgy deals going on all around him. :P
From Rangers website:
RANGERS' scheduled match with French 2nd tier side Le Havre on July 12 will now not take place.
A statement reads: "Rangers Football Club have been informed by Le Havre that they no longer wish to play us as part of their 140th anniversary celebrations on Thursday July 12. Unfortunately the match will now not take place."
The Rangers quiz: Are you genned up on Gers plight...
... or just a Celtic fan in disguise?
Richard Wilson Sunday 01 July 2012
The Independent
So where will Rangers be playing next season?
a) The SPL
b) First Division
c) Third Division
d) England after taking over Bury
e) Nowhere
Answer: b) (five points). The most likely compromise, meaning a trip to Dumbarton (capacity: 728). Award yourself four points for c) (almost as likely), while e) identifies you as a rabid Celtic supporter, so disqualifying you from this quiz. It's for neutrals.
Why are so many clubs voting against Rangers?
a) For moral reasons: huge unpaid debts should not go unpunished
b) Brinkmanship intended to secure more cash
c) Short-term holding move intended as a shot across Rangers' bows
Answer: c) (five points). Anyone who seriously thinks a) knows nothing about Scottish football.
Why Don't they want them to go into First Division?
a) They want to jump on the sporting integrity bandwagon
b) They don't yet realise the full financial consequences
c) They're seeking a bigger SPL windfall for dealing with a problem the SPL were too scared to address
d) Nobody likes Rangers
Answer: b) (five points). They have yet to discuss the proposals at a full meeting. Award yourself three points for answering c), because clubs will demand more, and two points for d).
Why has this dragged on all summer?
a) It's a complex business: administration, EBTs, unpaid PAYE plus monumental self-interest
b) The consequences are so profound that careful contemplation is needed to ensure the game does not suffer
c) Nobody wants to step up and make any decisions
d) Lawyers are involved, and their expense accounts needed some TLC
Answer: a) (five points). Rangers and Celtic are the financial bedrock of Scottish football, so damage to either affects the game, hence clubs tripping over themselves to ensure they are not harmed in the fallout. But the insolvency event, and the accusation that not all player payments were registered with the SFA, has made for a tangled series of issues to unravel. If you answered b) or c), you at least know Scottish football.
What do Celtic fans want?
a) To renew Old Firm hostilities as soon as possible
b) Avoid Rangers for a year
c) Never play Rangers again
d) Play Rangers every single week
e) They don't really know
Answer: e) (five points). No unanimity here. Some believe Rangers should be banished from the face of the earth and some, particularly inside the Celtic boardroom, say life will be too boring without Old Firm fixtures.
What has happened to Craig Whyte?
a) hiding, from irate Rangers fans, and Ticketus, who will be pursuing him for £24m
b) Still on the scene, and will benefit in some way from whatever money Charles Green and Zeus Capital make from Rangers
c) Sipping champagne in Monaco, wondering what all the fuss is about
d) Looking to phone Gerald Ratner or Nick Leeson. There's always somebody who's suffered a more disastrous business deal
Answer: c) (three points). Not least because he is brazen. Take two points for a), as he's not been in Glasgow for a while.
Why did Charles Green buy the club?
a) Green saw an opportunity at £5.5m and figured he couldn't lose
b) He's wider than the River Thames and reckons he can do what he likes as football fans are daft
c) Just a front man for others with cash to pull the deal off
d) Just for the sport of it
Answer: Take five points for a), but four for c) because that's true too. If you answered b), then I hope you're looking forward to League One next season, but Sheffield United do really deserve better. Is your club still recovering from his spell as chief executive 14 years ago?
After Whyte, Green and Brown, which colour next?
a) (Conrad) Black, who needs a new challenge now he is out of prison
b) (Miss) Scarlett — oh no, she's just murdered Professor Plum with a candlestick in the library
c) Red (Adair), the perfect firefighter in a crisis
d) (Rabbi Lionel) Blue. Right colour for the club and never hurts to broaden religious boundaries
Answer: a) (five points). Rangers fans would probably welcome Black as a replacement for Green.
Who is in charge of Scottish football?
a) SFA CEO Stewart Regan
b) SPL CEO Neil Doncaster
c) The supporters of all Scottish clubs
d) Celtic CEO Peter Lawwell
Answer: c) (five points). The grassroots movement has driven the narrative of the story in recent weeks. No To Newco has become a mantra, forcing SPL club chairmen to find a way to do just that, without exposing their own clubs to financial catastrophe. If you answered d), you're a Rangers fan who didn't learn from question one. More points off.
Where will Scottish football be in five years?
a) Same as before Rangers went into liquidation: a two-horse race with everyone enjoying a bit more cash
b) Revolutionised, with other clubs having caught up the Old Firm thanks to revenues being spread more evenly and a bigger top flight
c) Small-time, with both Old Firm teams in the English Premiership
d) Exactly as now, in disarray, constantly bickering about reconstruction and Old Firm influence
Answer: d) (clearly five points). It's been that way for more than 100 years, it won't change. If you answered a) or b), you're too much of an optimist.
Score
40-50 points: Did you have nothing else to mug up this summer?
30-40: You live next door to Craig Whyte
20-30: Time you knew your East Fife from your Forfar
10-20: Take off your Celtic shirt
0: You must be English
Wilson is a well-known media Hun cheerleader who only weeks ago was predicting that the SPL clubs would vote to keep the Ibrox cheats in the top flight, totally misjudging the anger of the ordinary fans of Hearts, Aberdeen, Hibs, Dundee Utd etc who let their clubs know in no uncertain terms what way they wanted them to vote. Now that fans in the SFL are expressing their disgust at the Ibrox cheating bastards being foisted on them the Rangers lackys in the press, including Wilson, are scaremongering to get their beloved Huns into as high a division as possible
Quote from: Aaron Boone on June 30, 2012, 10:28:20 PM
Strange move for Big Kyle, that one came out of left-field. FC Sion finished 9th in Swiss League last season although docked points for transfer irregularities.
Yeah I guess they must have some money to spend - they brought in gattuso as well.
It's a good move for Lafferty, the Swiss league is stronger than the SPL these days and Sion looked a handy enough team when they beat Celtic last season.
Like Rangers, Sion had an incredible run of defeats in the courts (civil and sports) last year. They embarked on a hopeless collision course with UEFA and FIFA. I think in the end, FIFA had to threaten to throw the Swiss fa out of football altogether unless Sion were docked a shed load of points.
Rangers actually won in Court when they had the 12 month transfer ban ruled out. Fat lot of good it did them!
Rangers poll on the Scotsman newspaper
Tuesday, 3 July 2012.
Over 25,000 took part ;D
What league should a newly-formed Rangers be allowed to play in next season?
SPL 373 (1%)
Division One 266 (1%)
Division Two 42 (0%)
Division Three 24484 (97%)
Of course the SFL dosen't have to take them at all. Maybe it's too much to hope that they will say no.
Not the SPL anyway.
Do the go down the leagues like the Ballroom of Romance asking "Are you dancing?"
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 04, 2012, 02:33:18 PM
Not the SPL anyway.
Do the go down the leagues like the Ballroom of Romance asking "Are you dancing?"
are you asking
Quote from: trasna man on July 04, 2012, 04:18:21 PM
Quote from: Denn Forever on July 04, 2012, 02:33:18 PM
Not the SPL anyway.
Do the go down the leagues like the Ballroom of Romance asking "Are you dancing?"
are you asking
Are you two doing the stonk?
The fightback begins
(http://seeker401.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/mikeygottowa.jpg)
Saturday 11th August 2012 is looming. The opening day of the Scottish 3rd Division. And Rangers (if they replace Queen Park who finished runners-up last season) probable first game would be away to East Stirling should the Scottish authorities hold firm!
Remember them?
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 27, 2012, 07:03:26 PM
(http://www.vanityprojectfanzine.com/football/EastStirling012.JPG)
EastStirling of the Scottish third Division beckons!
From wikiThe stadium has a capacity of 3,776 with 626 seated.
Div 3.
I couldn't give a fiddlers frig about Scottish football, but Rangers in Div 3 is hilarious.
Quote from: BennyCake on July 13, 2012, 02:51:46 PM
I couldn't give a fiddlers frig about Scottish football, but Rangers in Div 3 is hilarious.
Agreed.
Lets hope they get a load of div 3 standard players in and are then drawn with celtic in the cup for the craic!
I'm sure more players will leave now.
Are the players that are left good enough to win 3 consecutive promotions to get back in the Premier division?
Who is gonna want to sign for them now sure they won't be able pay top wages or sign expensive players.
Quote from: laoislad on July 13, 2012, 03:49:51 PM
I'm sure more players will leave now.
Are the players that are left good enough to win 3 consecutive promotions to get back in the Premier division?
Who is gonna want to sign for them now sure they won't be able pay top wages or sign expensive players.
Ah, they'll be alright for the moment, they still have academies and they're still have half of the up and coming players in Glasgow wanting to play for them. They are in a fourth tier division where a couple of hundred go to matches. Most of the players are part time. They are at the moment a very big fish in a very small pond.
And as a footnote, it is a very very funny situation. ;D
Amazed it came to this. I always thought they'd be filtered into the first division or the SPL with a few restrictions. Maybe the Scottish League isn't as inherently sectarian as was believed. Or was that just the refs?
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 13, 2012, 10:36:25 PM
Quote from: laoislad on July 13, 2012, 03:49:51 PM
I'm sure more players will leave now.
Are the players that are left good enough to win 3 consecutive promotions to get back in the Premier division?
Who is gonna want to sign for them now sure they won't be able pay top wages or sign expensive players.
Ah, they'll be alright for the moment, they still have academies and they're still have half of the up and coming players in Glasgow wanting to play for them. They are in a fourth tier division where a couple of hundred go to matches. Most of the players are part time. They are at the moment a very big fish in a very small pond.
And as a footnote, it is a very very funny situation. ;D
Oh and just to make it clear I don't care one way or the other! I think it be just as funny if it happened to Celtic.
Quote from: ONeill on July 13, 2012, 10:55:08 PM
Amazed it came to this. I always thought they'd be filtered into the first division or the SPL with a few restrictions. Maybe the Scottish League isn't as inherently sectarian as was believed. Or was that just the refs?
It's not all sectarian. It's just the non old firm fans mostly hate Rangers and Celtic mainly because of the sectarianism from some of their fans.
That's the pathetic excuse trotted out alright - its more jealousy or tribalism that are the causes...
If both Glasgow clubs left for English league or both went out of business - the same dislike/hate/rows would turn to different targets
So I don't accept this excuse - for a small percentage possibly but that's being generous!
There's a site called pie and bovril. You will get the views of other non old firm fans there. Of course there's only one old firm club now.
The usage of the ignorant 'old firm' tag is a disgusting insult to such an outstanding club as Celtic fc ;D
No doubt the Irish ethnic identity thing will continue to be regarded as a sectarian in Scotland and inspire expressions of hate by some of the morons who attach themselves to Scottish football.
Once Rangers were not allowed into the SPL, their future in Scottish football then became a matter for all SFL clubs and they sought to put Rangers on a difficult path of redemption to purge them out of their sinful ways. It's not evidence of sectarianism or non-sectarianism.
In England, the League board votes on a clubs future.
"The Football League Board has absolute discretion as to whether to admit any new company as a member of The League. In doing so, it has to strike a balance between giving a club another chance and the effect this has on sporting competition between clubs."
In Scotland the member clubs have the vote and obviously don't rate giving another chance or sporting competition above penalisation.
A Ist division placement with a points penalty was not a proposed option.
The authorities seem to be panicing about what happened yesterday, a fear the TV money etc will be lost. There is a twist left in this tale yet. They will come with a saucy SPL2 to accommodate Sky and bypass the clubs.
If it stays as it is, I think this could be the injection the game needs. In the 3rd division each team plays each other 4 times. That means each team will have 2 big pay day home games v Rangers. Can you imagine what that means to these clubs. if Rangers get promoted the 2nd Division clubs will get the same pay day, and so on!
I suppose jacking up the prices is out of the question in order to pay for match day security for the peace loving locals.
There might be an opportunity for a resourceful entrepreneur to have some caged temporary seating assembly to provide these lower division clubs with.
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 14, 2012, 12:38:24 PM
The authorities seem to be panicing about what happened yesterday, a fear the TV money etc will be lost. There is a twist left in this tale yet. They will come with a saucy SPL2 to accommodate Sky and bypass the clubs.
If it stays as it is, I think this could be the injection the game needs. In the 3rd division each team plays each other 4 times. That means each team will have 2 big pay day home games v Rangers. Can you imagine what that means to these clubs. if Rangers get promoted the 2nd Division clubs will get the same pay day, and so on!
Was reading somewhere SPL 2 will be near impossible to implement before this season starts anyway, so they are going to suffer the ignomony of playing in Division 3 - barring some drastic manouvering (which is entirely possible). I'm suprised it has come to this tbh myself, I expected the Div 1 option to happen, Rangers underestimated the amount of resentment and vitriol that had built up in other clubs. It probably means that Rangers will have to cruise up the leagues with their youth team as the remaining players wont want to stay and/or the club wont want the big waged players to stay either.
Neil Lennon wants Rangers stripped of Scottish Premier League titles
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/scottish-league/2012/0719/329734-lennon-wants-rangers-stripped-of-titles/ (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/scottish-league/2012/0719/329734-lennon-wants-rangers-stripped-of-titles/)
No harm in kicking someone when they are down!
Quote from: bennydorano on July 14, 2012, 05:25:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 14, 2012, 12:38:24 PM
The authorities seem to be panicing about what happened yesterday, a fear the TV money etc will be lost. There is a twist left in this tale yet. They will come with a saucy SPL2 to accommodate Sky and bypass the clubs.
If it stays as it is, I think this could be the injection the game needs. In the 3rd division each team plays each other 4 times. That means each team will have 2 big pay day home games v Rangers. Can you imagine what that means to these clubs. if Rangers get promoted the 2nd Division clubs will get the same pay day, and so on!
Was reading somewhere SPL 2 will be near impossible to implement before this season starts anyway, so they are going to suffer the ignomony of playing in Division 3 - barring some drastic manouvering (which is entirely possible). I'm suprised it has come to this tbh myself, I expected the Div 1 option to happen, Rangers underestimated the amount of resentment and vitriol that had built up in other clubs. It probably means that Rangers will have to cruise up the leagues with their youth team as the remaining players wont want to stay and/or the club wont want the big waged players to stay either.
Who were the 5 League clubs that did not vote against Rangers?
Are they wannabe potential SPL2 material?
are newco Rangers FC now the new firm?
Are the old Rangers gone now as we know them?
For example if they won the Scottish FA Cup next season would it be their first trophy or would it be added to all the other trophies they have won.
Also do they get to keep the same badge or would they have to have a new one as they are a new company.
Quote from: Gazzler on July 20, 2012, 02:12:44 PM
Are the old Rangers gone now as we know them?
For example if they won the Scottish FA Cup next season would it be their first trophy or would it be added to all the other trophies they have won.
Also do they get to keep the same badge or would they have to have a new one as they are a new company.
I would imagine they have to start all from scratch.
There is no Rangers. Currently they are called Sevco 5088. The old Rangers are dead/ liquidated and they cannot add to there trophy count as they are dead/liquidated. Rangers fans may try and tell everyone they are still Rangers but the fact remains that company/ football club is gone forever. They are now Sevco 5088 until thay manage to get a new name.
Quote from: LeoMc on July 20, 2012, 10:12:21 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on July 14, 2012, 05:25:19 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 14, 2012, 12:38:24 PM
The authorities seem to be panicing about what happened yesterday, a fear the TV money etc will be lost. There is a twist left in this tale yet. They will come with a saucy SPL2 to accommodate Sky and bypass the clubs.
If it stays as it is, I think this could be the injection the game needs. In the 3rd division each team plays each other 4 times. That means each team will have 2 big pay day home games v Rangers. Can you imagine what that means to these clubs. if Rangers get promoted the 2nd Division clubs will get the same pay day, and so on!
Was reading somewhere SPL 2 will be near impossible to implement before this season starts anyway, so they are going to suffer the ignomony of playing in Division 3 - barring some drastic manouvering (which is entirely possible). I'm suprised it has come to this tbh myself, I expected the Div 1 option to happen, Rangers underestimated the amount of resentment and vitriol that had built up in other clubs. It probably means that Rangers will have to cruise up the leagues with their youth team as the remaining players wont want to stay and/or the club wont want the big waged players to stay either.
Who were the 5 League clubs that did not vote against Rangers?
Are they wannabe potential SPL2 material?
Queen of the South and Hamilton were two of them.
Quote from: Gazzler on July 20, 2012, 02:12:44 PM
Are the old Rangers gone now as we know them?
For example if they won the Scottish FA Cup next season would it be their first trophy or would it be added to all the other trophies they have won.
Also do they get to keep the same badge or would they have to have a new one as they are a new company.
About the badge. Gretna FC 2008 had to buy the old Gretna badge from the liquidators before they could use it. So, going by that Rangers old badge may now be owned by the liquidators.
they are still a big pull. Sky Sports are still going to show them frequently, including their opener against peterhead
Quote from: dillinger on July 20, 2012, 06:39:22 PM
Quote from: Gazzler on July 20, 2012, 02:12:44 PM
Are the old Rangers gone now as we know them?
For example if they won the Scottish FA Cup next season would it be their first trophy or would it be added to all the other trophies they have won.
Also do they get to keep the same badge or would they have to have a new one as they are a new company.
About the badge. Gretna FC 2008 had to buy the old Gretna badge from the liquidators before they could use it. So, going by that Rangers old badge may now be owned by the liquidators.
Sevco bought the badge along with the assets.
Quote from: Hoof Hearted on July 20, 2012, 08:38:52 PM
they are still a big pull. Sky Sports are still going to show them frequently, including their opener against peterhead
Rangers are going to be playing against the likes of the mighty Peterhead, unfcuking believable. ;D
Craig Whyte has set up a new Debt Collection Company in Glasgow too! You couldn't make this up! ;D
If they wanted to be cruel bastards the fans of the other Scottish Premiership and First Division teams could get together to fund 2 or 3 of the Division 3 teams and keep Rangers down there forever. Just a thought :-X
Quote from: mayogodhelpus@gmail.com on July 23, 2012, 09:19:59 PM
If they wanted to be cruel b**tards the fans of the other Scottish Premiership and First Division teams could get together to fund 2 or 3 of the Division 3 teams and keep Rangers down there forever. Just a thought :-X
Listen, this is the Scottish 4th tier division, average gates of 450. Most of these clubs are in Farty towns. Players i would guess are as close to amateur as you could imagine. The combined total of the league and you could probably add the combined league above them and they still would not be close in financial clout!
Looking forward to this season, all the same!
The police were called to Celtic Park today as a Rangers fan was threatening to jump of the roof. When asked by the police "why here and not Ibrox" he replied "Have you seen the queue round there"
How much will a rangers footballer earn next year
Quote from: rrhf on July 24, 2012, 10:59:33 PM
How much will a rangers footballer earn next year
Robbie Savage has offered to come out of retirement and play for Rangers
for free as the Ibrox club plans for life in the Third Division.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2179031/Robbie-Savage-tells-Rangers-hell-play-free.html#ixzz21gCv41OF (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2179031/Robbie-Savage-tells-Rangers-hell-play-free.html#ixzz21gCv41OF)
That's all they need, Robbie. :D Well, apart from Joey Barton maybe.
Just what the most hated club in Britain needs
Quote from: deiseach on July 26, 2012, 10:04:34 AM
Just what the most hated club in Britain needs
What's Crossmaglen got to do with this?
I think you are getting your Rangers mixed up.
Quote from: Gazzler on July 26, 2012, 10:10:53 AM
Quote from: deiseach on July 26, 2012, 10:04:34 AM
Just what the most hated club in Britain needs
What's Crossmaglen got to do with this?
I think you are getting your Rangers mixed up.
Seeing as Crossmaglen isn't in Britain, that seems unlikely
He's confused enough deiseach without you adding to it ;D
Quote from: rrhf on July 24, 2012, 10:59:33 PM
How much will a rangers footballer earn next year
Before or after tax?
Quote from: Agent Orange on July 26, 2012, 09:38:35 PM
Quote from: rrhf on July 24, 2012, 10:59:33 PM
How much will a rangers footballer earn next year
Before or after tax?
Read somewhere today that some Rangers players will be on seven grand a week.
The Ramsdens Cup tie at Brechin City now set to take place at Glebe Park on Sunday July 29, with a 3.05pm kick-off, after being rescheduled to accommodate a live TV broadcast by BBC Alba. Suppose we'll be able to see live on TV just how bad things are for Rangers!
What odds a division 3 team winning the Scottish cup
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 27, 2012, 07:00:02 PM
The Ramsdens Cup tie at Brechin City now set to take place at Glebe Park on Sunday July 29, with a 3.05pm kick-off, after being rescheduled to accommodate a live TV broadcast by BBC Alba. Suppose we'll be able to see live on TV just how bad things are for Rangers!
Wait for a rash of suicides across Govan as the match commentary in Gaelic finally puts a few of the watching huns completely over the edge ;D
Interesting to see what team Rangers can throw together for todays game?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01lnhcz (http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01lnhcz)
I would say 3-0 to The Rangers/whatever you call them.
Quote from: dillinger on July 29, 2012, 01:36:55 PM
I would say 3-0 to The Rangers/whatever you call them.
2-1 AET
Quote from: All of a Sludden on July 29, 2012, 08:00:41 PM
Quote from: dillinger on July 29, 2012, 01:36:55 PM
I would say 3-0 to The Rangers/whatever you call them.
2-1 AET
Only football club in the World with a 100% success rate.
Never lost a game.
That was Brechin City's big pay day. There are a pletora of Clubs in Division three looking forward to their 2 (home game) Big pay days. As i said this may not be bad for Scottish football. The little fry will get a bit of the big money filtered down to them. Also, how many of Rangers team today contained foreigners? More players will be brought through with the transfer ban.
I thought it would be a three nil win for rangers, I am absolutely amazed at their fall from grace, I cannot imagine how rangers fans feel knowing that they are doomed to play mickey mouse teams that they are going to struggle against for years to come.
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 08:24:43 PM
I thought it would be a three nil win for rangers, I am absolutely amazed at their fall from grace, I cannot imagine how rangers fans feel knowing that they are doomed to play mickey mouse teams that they are going to struggle against for years to come.
Only thing is that this is a second division team and Rangers are a third division team. This means that the teams they'll be meeting when the league starts will be of a lower standard again.
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 29, 2012, 08:50:28 PM
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 08:24:43 PM
I thought it would be a three nil win for rangers, I am absolutely amazed at their fall from grace, I cannot imagine how rangers fans feel knowing that they are doomed to play mickey mouse teams that they are going to struggle against for years to come.
Only thing is that this is a second division team and Rangers are a third division team. This means that the teams they'll be meeting when the league starts will be of a lower standard again.
I just saw that FTB, thanks.
They will struggle to get back into the SPL I reckon, who the hell is going to want to play at that level other than up and coming youngsters and a few has been's that can afford to go on the cheap.
I was with a Celtic supporter from oz this morning, he lives in Glasgow, he followed the match on his phone and he was apoplectic about what was going on, I was just surprised and was happy to see such a weak team hold them and get to extra time, good enough for the hoors!
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 09:41:57 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 29, 2012, 08:50:28 PM
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 08:24:43 PM
I thought it would be a three nil win for rangers, I am absolutely amazed at their fall from grace, I cannot imagine how rangers fans feel knowing that they are doomed to play mickey mouse teams that they are going to struggle against for years to come.
Only thing is that this is a second division team and Rangers are a third division team. This means that the teams they'll be meeting when the league starts will be of a lower standard again.
I just saw that FTB, thanks.
They will struggle to get back into the SPL I reckon, who the hell is going to want to play at that level other than up and coming youngsters and a few has been's that can afford to go on the cheap.
I was with a Celtic supporter from oz this morning, he lives in Glasgow, he followed the match on his phone and he was apoplectic about what was going on, I was just surprised and was happy to see such a weak team hold them and get to extra time, good enough for the hoors!
They had seven internationals lining out for them today. They'll stroll back to the SPL.
Quote from: AFS on July 29, 2012, 11:33:52 PM
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 09:41:57 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 29, 2012, 08:50:28 PM
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 08:24:43 PM
I thought it would be a three nil win for rangers, I am absolutely amazed at their fall from grace, I cannot imagine how rangers fans feel knowing that they are doomed to play mickey mouse teams that they are going to struggle against for years to come.
Only thing is that this is a second division team and Rangers are a third division team. This means that the teams they'll be meeting when the league starts will be of a lower standard again.
I just saw that FTB, thanks.
They will struggle to get back into the SPL I reckon, who the hell is going to want to play at that level other than up and coming youngsters and a few has been's that can afford to go on the cheap.
I was with a Celtic supporter from oz this morning, he lives in Glasgow, he followed the match on his phone and he was apoplectic about what was going on, I was just surprised and was happy to see such a weak team hold them and get to extra time, good enough for the hoors!
They had seven internationals lining out for them today. They'll stroll back to the SPL.
In 3 years time!
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 30, 2012, 12:31:46 AM
Quote from: AFS on July 29, 2012, 11:33:52 PM
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 09:41:57 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 29, 2012, 08:50:28 PM
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 08:24:43 PM
I thought it would be a three nil win for rangers, I am absolutely amazed at their fall from grace, I cannot imagine how rangers fans feel knowing that they are doomed to play mickey mouse teams that they are going to struggle against for years to come.
Only thing is that this is a second division team and Rangers are a third division team. This means that the teams they'll be meeting when the league starts will be of a lower standard again.
I just saw that FTB, thanks.
They will struggle to get back into the SPL I reckon, who the hell is going to want to play at that level other than up and coming youngsters and a few has been's that can afford to go on the cheap.
I was with a Celtic supporter from oz this morning, he lives in Glasgow, he followed the match on his phone and he was apoplectic about what was going on, I was just surprised and was happy to see such a weak team hold them and get to extra time, good enough for the hoors!
They had seven internationals lining out for them today. They'll stroll back to the SPL.
In 3 years time!
Most of those seven are holding their cards close to their chests. They won't want to be hanging around in the lower reaches of Scottish Football in the prime of their Careers. If they do they won't be Internationals for long.
Trouble hits first Rangers game against Brechin Some fans let off smoke bombs during the game.
Police have arrested a man following trouble which flared up during the new Rangers' first game outside top-flight football.
The 23-year-old man was detained for breach of the peace after climbing a floodlight during the away match to Brechin City.
Other fans set off smoke bombs and made sectarian remarks during the game, which ended in a 2-1 win for Rangers.
Tayside Police said the trouble was caused by a minority.
Officers said most of the capacity 4,100 support at Glebe Park conducted themselves "in an entirely appropriate way".
A police spokesman said: "The crowd were in good spirits as the game moved into extra time and the atmosphere was excellent.
"A minority tried to disrupt the game by setting off smoke bombs, with one person shouting sectarian remarks and another climbing on a floodlight structure.
"A 23-year-old male was arrested for a breach of the peace in relation to the floodlight incident and enquiries are ongoing in conjunction with Strathclyde Police to identify those responsible for the other offences.
"The actions of the minority should not overshadow the football game that was well attended, well supported, with fans from both sides conducting themselves in an entirely appropriate way."
Lee McCulloch scored the winning goal in extra time during the Ramsdens Cup tie.
The match was the new Rangers' first competitive outing since the club's financial troubles saw it go into administration and voted into the Irn-Bru Third Division.
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 30, 2012, 12:31:46 AM
Quote from: AFS on July 29, 2012, 11:33:52 PM
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 09:41:57 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 29, 2012, 08:50:28 PM
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 08:24:43 PM
I thought it would be a three nil win for rangers, I am absolutely amazed at their fall from grace, I cannot imagine how rangers fans feel knowing that they are doomed to play mickey mouse teams that they are going to struggle against for years to come.
Only thing is that this is a second division team and Rangers are a third division team. This means that the teams they'll be meeting when the league starts will be of a lower standard again.
I just saw that FTB, thanks.
They will struggle to get back into the SPL I reckon, who the hell is going to want to play at that level other than up and coming youngsters and a few has been's that can afford to go on the cheap.
I was with a Celtic supporter from oz this morning, he lives in Glasgow, he followed the match on his phone and he was apoplectic about what was going on, I was just surprised and was happy to see such a weak team hold them and get to extra time, good enough for the hoors!
They had seven internationals lining out for them today. They'll stroll back to the SPL.
In 3 years time!
If seven internationals were playing against Brechin and they only won in extra time they are in serious trouble, how the feck do seven international players get it so tight against a bunch of part timers? they must all play for the wee six ffs!
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2012, 05:41:59 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 30, 2012, 12:31:46 AM
Quote from: AFS on July 29, 2012, 11:33:52 PM
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 09:41:57 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 29, 2012, 08:50:28 PM
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 08:24:43 PM
I thought it would be a three nil win for rangers, I am absolutely amazed at their fall from grace, I cannot imagine how rangers fans feel knowing that they are doomed to play mickey mouse teams that they are going to struggle against for years to come.
Only thing is that this is a second division team and Rangers are a third division team. This means that the teams they'll be meeting when the league starts will be of a lower standard again.
I just saw that FTB, thanks.
They will struggle to get back into the SPL I reckon, who the hell is going to want to play at that level other than up and coming youngsters and a few has been's that can afford to go on the cheap.
I was with a Celtic supporter from oz this morning, he lives in Glasgow, he followed the match on his phone and he was apoplectic about what was going on, I was just surprised and was happy to see such a weak team hold them and get to extra time, good enough for the hoors!
They had seven internationals lining out for them today. They'll stroll back to the SPL.
In 3 years time!
If seven internationals were playing against Brechin and they only won in extra time they are in serious trouble, how the feck do seven international players get it so tight against a bunch of part timers? they must all play for the wee six ffs!
Men in glass houses, stew.
Two words, Paul Green.
Quote from: trileacman on July 30, 2012, 05:43:45 PM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2012, 05:41:59 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 30, 2012, 12:31:46 AM
Quote from: AFS on July 29, 2012, 11:33:52 PM
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 09:41:57 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 29, 2012, 08:50:28 PM
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 08:24:43 PM
I thought it would be a three nil win for rangers, I am absolutely amazed at their fall from grace, I cannot imagine how rangers fans feel knowing that they are doomed to play mickey mouse teams that they are going to struggle against for years to come.
Only thing is that this is a second division team and Rangers are a third division team. This means that the teams they'll be meeting when the league starts will be of a lower standard again.
I just saw that FTB, thanks.
They will struggle to get back into the SPL I reckon, who the hell is going to want to play at that level other than up and coming youngsters and a few has been's that can afford to go on the cheap.
I was with a Celtic supporter from oz this morning, he lives in Glasgow, he followed the match on his phone and he was apoplectic about what was going on, I was just surprised and was happy to see such a weak team hold them and get to extra time, good enough for the hoors!
They had seven internationals lining out for them today. They'll stroll back to the SPL.
In 3 years time!
If seven internationals were playing against Brechin and they only won in extra time they are in serious trouble, how the feck do seven international players get it so tight against a bunch of part timers? they must all play for the wee six ffs!
Men in glass houses, stew.
Two words, Paul Green.
Glass houses?
Paul green?
No idea what you are on about mucker.
Paul Green was a member of the Rep. of Ireland squad in the Euros and he didn't have a club.
1 Across. Four letters.
Paul Green was a member of the Rep. of Ireland squad in the Euros and he didn't have a
CLU-
Quote from: Hardy on July 30, 2012, 07:33:15 PM
1 Across. Four letters.
Paul Green was a member of the Rep. of Ireland squad in the Euros and he didn't have a
CLU-
CLUE!
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2012, 07:09:09 PM
Quote from: trileacman on July 30, 2012, 05:43:45 PM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2012, 05:41:59 PM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on July 30, 2012, 12:31:46 AM
Quote from: AFS on July 29, 2012, 11:33:52 PM
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 09:41:57 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 29, 2012, 08:50:28 PM
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 08:24:43 PM
I thought it would be a three nil win for rangers, I am absolutely amazed at their fall from grace, I cannot imagine how rangers fans feel knowing that they are doomed to play mickey mouse teams that they are going to struggle against for years to come.
Only thing is that this is a second division team and Rangers are a third division team. This means that the teams they'll be meeting when the league starts will be of a lower standard again.
I just saw that FTB, thanks.
They will struggle to get back into the SPL I reckon, who the hell is going to want to play at that level other than up and coming youngsters and a few has been's that can afford to go on the cheap.
I was with a Celtic supporter from oz this morning, he lives in Glasgow, he followed the match on his phone and he was apoplectic about what was going on, I was just surprised and was happy to see such a weak team hold them and get to extra time, good enough for the hoors!
They had seven internationals lining out for them today. They'll stroll back to the SPL.
In 3 years time!
If seven internationals were playing against Brechin and they only won in extra time they are in serious trouble, how the feck do seven international players get it so tight against a bunch of part timers? they must all play for the wee six ffs!
Men in glass houses, stew.
Two words, Paul Green.
Glass houses?
Paul green?
No idea what you are on about mucker.
Sorry I'm a lazy fecker and that was a bit cryptic. Point was that it's hard to laugh at the wee six when Ireland had Paul Green appearing at the Euro's and had to contract with any club at 29 years old.
The republic is starting a decline that will probably last a decade or more, the underage teams are shite and the current squad are old, that said the north's team are absolutely useless and the republic would likely hammer them as they did a while ago.
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2012, 05:41:59 PMIf seven internationals were playing against Brechin and they only won in extra time they are in serious trouble, how the feck do seven international players get it so tight against a bunch of part timers? they must all play for the wee six ffs!
The "(Less Than) Magnificent Seven" comprised 4 x Scottish Internationals, a USA International, a Romanian International and an NI International.
This last - Andy Little - is a young player who is finally recovering from two injury-plagued seasons. He scored the opening goal.
So only 6 proper internationals then. :D
Quote from: Evil Genius on July 31, 2012, 03:14:43 PM
Quote from: stew on July 30, 2012, 05:41:59 PMIf seven internationals were playing against Brechin and they only won in extra time they are in serious trouble, how the feck do seven international players get it so tight against a bunch of part timers? they must all play for the wee six ffs!
The "(Less Than) Magnificent Seven" comprised 4 x Scottish Internationals, a USA International, a Romanian International and an NI International.
This last - Andy Little - is a young player who is finally recovering from two injury-plagued seasons. He scored the opening goal.
Eh, I wasn't serious about them all being from the North but they must be shite if they struggle to beat the mighty Brechin.
Also, the south made it to the Euros and hammered the north, they are pure dung at the minute and you couldnt make a good team if they merged, that said maybe two or three nordies would make the squad and I hope the exodus from the north continues, you know, to make the stronger team better.
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 29, 2012, 08:50:28 PM
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 08:24:43 PM
I thought it would be a three nil win for rangers, I am absolutely amazed at their fall from grace, I cannot imagine how rangers fans feel knowing that they are doomed to play mickey mouse teams that they are going to struggle against for years to come.
Only thing is that this is a second division team and Rangers are a third division team. This means that the teams they'll be meeting when the league starts will be of a lower standard again.
Real football fans, as i call them will love going to these wee grounds to see Rangers play. I hope with Rangers being in the SFL3 it will drive away the trash. But i fear they will return when Rangers sart to move up through the leagues. Have i said, :o I follow Gretna F.C. 2008 ::) To me that is real football, wee teams run by supporters paying exrta cash to keep a diddey team alive. I'm going over this saturday with the Northern Ireland Gretna Supporters Club, all four of us to boost the expected crowd of 110. ;D
Quote from: dillinger on August 01, 2012, 01:49:42 AM
Quote from: From the Bunker on July 29, 2012, 08:50:28 PM
Quote from: stew on July 29, 2012, 08:24:43 PM
I thought it would be a three nil win for rangers, I am absolutely amazed at their fall from grace, I cannot imagine how rangers fans feel knowing that they are doomed to play mickey mouse teams that they are going to struggle against for years to come.
Only thing is that this is a second division team and Rangers are a third division team. This means that the teams they'll be meeting when the league starts will be of a lower standard again.
Real football fans, as i call them will love going to these wee grounds to see Rangers play. I hope with Rangers being in the SFL3 it will drive away the trash. But i fear they will return when Rangers sart to move up through the leagues. Have i said, :o I follow Gretna F.C. 2008 ::) To me that is real football, wee teams run by supporters paying exrta cash to keep a diddey team alive. I'm going over this saturday with the Northern Ireland Gretna Supporters Club, all four of us to boost the expected crowd of 110. ;D
Fair play to you dillinger, how the hell did you come to support Gretna?
I liked Manure because I was a huge fan of George Best when I was young.
Manure? Well about Gretna, like a lot i followed their rise and fall. Seen on the net about a new Gretna forming, bit like guess AFC wombles. So went over one day to watch the new team playing on a public park in Annan about 8 miles from Gretna. There was about 100 fans there, all mad, so i felt like home.I thought these guys are headers, in the nicest way who just want a team to play in the town's name. Got hooked, go over when i can and it is really good craic. look at www. gretna2008 on net. Their website. Go on, next game i'll bring you over, i'll drive. :)
Great story dillinger, fair play to you.
This is some craic below, it is an unbelievable snippet. This is from this Green character.
As every fan knows, Rangers is Rangers - it always has been and it always will be. The club still has its 140 years of history, and we are now embarking on the next 140 years. We are back playing football, and the board is focused on rebuilding this great club over the next few years."
On Monday, Green said the Rangers newco were denied a place in the Scottish Premier League because of "bigotry" and "jealousy".
Green said many decisions in the summer-long Rangers saga had been made "for the wrong reasons" and told BBC Scotland: "Some of it has been driven by bigotry, some of it has been driven by jealousy and some of it has been driven by all the wrong motives."
The worlds most bigoted club have the gall to say that jealousy and bigotry, not a word about the dodgy contracts and the fact that they stiffed a lot of companies, players and other employees for millions.
Stay classy Rankers, oh and by the way, you don't have a 140 year history, you have a history of a few weeks.
Peterhead have just dropped 2 points. :(
2-2 with Rangers.
I knew they should have joined the East Scotland League with Gretna, 3rd Div is to high a level for them. ;D
Need a new thread for the new club.
Equaliser in injury time was a foul on keeper. Nothing changes, they'll be back in SPL in 3 years cos reffing in SFA is just as biased as in SPL
Quote from: red hander on August 11, 2012, 11:14:35 PM
Equaliser in injury time was a foul on keeper. Nothing changes, they'll be back in SPL in 3 years cos reffing in SFA is just as biased as in SPL
It's all about the money i suppose.
Good start, a draw away to the might of Peterhead.
There has to be a few higher profile players at Rangers with giddy feet, Jez it's the Scottish 3rd Division, it cannot be good for their international standing as footballers and their value. If they stay it would be like being in football limo for three years. And three years is a long time in a footballers career.
Quote from: hardstation on August 11, 2012, 02:47:44 PM
A good point for Rangers.
Well they are inexperienced at this level
Quote from: red hander on August 11, 2012, 11:14:35 PM
Equaliser in injury time was a foul on keeper. Nothing changes, they'll be back in SPL in 3 years cos reffing in SFA is just as biased as in SPL
Do you really think so? Dont see a lot wrong with it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjFyDlySTrc
Quote from: From the Bunker on August 12, 2012, 10:10:44 PM
Quote from: red hander on August 11, 2012, 11:14:35 PM
Equaliser in injury time was a foul on keeper. Nothing changes, they'll be back in SPL in 3 years cos reffing in SFA is just as biased as in SPL
It's all about the money i suppose.
Good start, a draw away to the might of Peterhead.
There has to be a few higher profile players at Rangers with giddy feet, Jez it's the Scottish 3rd Division, it cannot be good for their international standing as footballers and their value. If they stay it would be like being in football limo for three years. And three years is a long time in a footballers career.
Nah there is very little from last seasons squad still there. All the big name international players are gone, Davis, Lafferty, Naismith, Whittaker,Aluko..
Bocanegra is still there and Lee Wallace, hopefully they will be gone soon too,. May they remain in Div3.
Quote from: nifan on August 13, 2012, 08:55:28 AM
Quote from: red hander on August 11, 2012, 11:14:35 PM
Equaliser in injury time was a foul on keeper. Nothing changes, they'll be back in SPL in 3 years cos reffing in SFA is just as biased as in SPL
Do you really think so? Dont see a lot wrong with it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjFyDlySTrc
Great commentary. Sounded like a boy coming out of Dormans any night of the week.
Just back from holidays in Spain. Lots of Brits/OWC folk there, not a Rangers top to be seen. But there was an interesting sign outside a pub which read Sky Sports Here. Saturday 11 August - 1.45 Peterhead v Rangers, 8.00 Real Madrid V Celtic. Says it all doesn't it
Quote from: nifan on August 13, 2012, 08:55:28 AM
Quote from: red hander on August 11, 2012, 11:14:35 PM
Equaliser in injury time was a foul on keeper. Nothing changes, they'll be back in SPL in 3 years cos reffing in SFA is just as biased as in SPL
Do you really think so? Dont see a lot wrong with it
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjFyDlySTrc
Having viewed it again a few times, you're right. Would be annoyed if it was Celtic and it had been disallowed. Still think they'll be back soon enough, maybe even next year if some of the rumours about a revamped SPL with two divisions are true
Former Rangers Football Club wins Big Tax Case appeal
The former Rangers Football Club was placed into administration in February
Continue reading the main story
Rangers in crisis
Judge approves Gers liquidation
Whyte makes Ticketus deal claims
Old Rangers set for liquidation
Rangers to float on AIM market
The former Rangers Football Club has won an appeal against a tax bill over its use of Employee Benefit Trusts.
The club, which is now in liquidation, used the scheme from 2001 to 2010 to make £47.65m in payments to players and staff in the form of tax-free loans.
HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) had challenged the payments, arguing that they were illegal.
Rangers disputed the bill and a First Tier Tax Tribunal (FTT) has ruled the payments were loans that can be repaid.
The decision was welcomed by Murray International Holdings, who were majority shareholders of the old club until Craig Whyte's takeover in May 2011.
However, HMRC said it was considering an appeal.
In its ruling - which was endorsed by two judges, with one dissenting - the FTT said the lengthy appeal had been heard over 29 days.
Split decision
"At a late stage in its deliberations it became clear that the tribunal would be unable to issue a unanimous decision. It is conscious of and regrets the consequent delay," it said.
Continue reading the main story
"
Start Quote
We are pleased with the judgement which leaves minimal tax liability and overwhelmingly supports the views collectively and consistently held by our advisers, legal counsel and MIH itself"
MIH
"The majority view reflects the argument that the controversial monies received by the employees were not paid to them as their absolute entitlement.
"The legal effect of the trust/loan structure is sufficient to preclude this. Thus the payments are loans, not earnings, and so are recoverable from the employee or his estate.
The dissenting opinion came from Dr Heidi Poon, who concluded that the money received by the employees through the trust constituted earnings for income tax purposes.
The tribunal agreed to a request to anonymise the published form of the decision.
In a statement, Murray International Holdings said: "We are satisfied that the tax tribunal has now published its widely awaited decision and note the contents thereof.
"We are pleased with the judgement which leaves minimal tax liability and overwhelmingly supports the views collectively and consistently held by our advisers, legal counsel and MIH itself.
'Ill-informed debate'
"This has been an exceptionally long, difficult and expensive process involving not just the tax tribunal but also significant efforts to resolve the matter with senior HMRC officials on a commercially sensible basis for all parties.
"We will therefore review the detailed content of the decision with our advisers and legal counsel to ascertain what action, if any, is now required by MIH."
Continue reading the main story
"
Start Quote
We are disappointed that we have lost this stage of the court process and we are considering an appeal"
HMRC
The MIH spokesman said that while the company had "respected the privacy" of the tribunal proceedings, "a substantial quantity of confidential information" about the case had made its way into the public domain stimulating "often ill-informed debate".
The statement continued: "This has been wholly inappropriate and outwith the fundamental principles of natural justice.
"We therefore formally request that the relevant authorities investigate how these sensitive details have been released so widely.
"We have instructed our lawyers to retrospectively review online and printed publications relating to the case to identify whether legal redress is either appropriate or necessary."
A spokesman for HMRC said: "We are disappointed that we have lost this stage of the court process and we are considering an appeal.
"The decision was not unanimous and the diligence of HMRC investigators was acknowledged by the whole tribunal.
Continue reading the main story
Rangers crisis explained
Rangers went into administration owing up to £134m to unsecured creditors.
As a result its registrations with the Scottish FA and Scottish Premier League were terminated.
Charles Green led a consortium which bought Rangers' assets for £5.5m.
The former Sheffield United chief executive reformed Rangers as a new company.
The 'newco' did not get the required votes for re-admittance to the SPL and started life in Scottish Division Three.
"HMRC is committed to tackling avoidance and it is right that we challenge the type of avoidance seen in this case."
Old Rangers was under the control of Sir David Murray when it began using EBTs.
He sold the club for £1 to Scottish businessman Craig Whyte in 2011, while the tax liability was in dispute.
The FTT, before three judges, concluded in January, one month before the old Rangers, now under the control of Mr Whyte, was forced into administration by HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) over non-payment of tax totalling about £14m.
HMRC subsequently rejected proposals for a creditors agreement that would have allowed the old club to continue.
Administrators Duff and Phelps then negotiated a sale of assets to a consortium led by Charles Green for £5.5m.
He has since formed a new club, now playing in the Scottish Football League Third Division.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-20414804
Here we go again!
QuoteRangers in talks to borrow £1.5m to aid running of club (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26269789)
Rangers have confirmed that they are holding discussions with two major shareholders for a loan of £1.5m to aid the running of the club.
In a Stock Exchange statement, the club said terms have not been finalised.
Earlier this month, chief executive Graham Wallace refuted "ill-informed and inaccurate" claims that the club was on the brink of insolvency.
The club reported a £14m operating loss for the 13 months to June after £22m was raised in a share issue in 2012.
BBC Scotland has learned the discussions are taking place with Laxey Partners and the Easdale brothers James and Sandy. The latter two hold positions on the boards of The Rangers Football Club Limited and its parent company The Rangers International Football Club PLC.
At December's Annual General Meeting, Wallace said the club faces "a significant number of challenges" but had a "platform of stability" to make progress.
In January, manager Ally McCoist signed off on a cut to his wages of about 50%, which he had agreed to in October, but players rejected a proposal of pay cuts of 15% until summer 2015.
Speculation has mounted in recent months that the club is running out of working capital and would have difficulty meeting February's staff wages.
The Scottish League One outfit received calls from concerned supporters and shareholders following online discussions regarding an impending insolvency event.
The concerns prompted a response from Wallace refuting the claims and insisting the club was continuing to rebuild.
A club statement read: "The club wishes to make clear that these allegations are totally inaccurate and that the chief executive and board of directors are fully focussed on the restructuring and rebuilding of Rangers Football Club as previously announced.
"The club has decided to make this statement as unchallenged, ill-informed and inaccurate comments are damaging to the reputation of Rangers Football Club."
Rangers have been examining various means of raising short-term capital over the past few weeks.
The company's annual report stated it had access to an unsecured facility of £2.5m, though it remains unclear whether that has been used.
An additional complication is the ongoing dispute over the ownership of Sevco 5088, which is a subsidiary of The Rangers International Football Club PLC.
The former Rangers owner Craig Whyte is contesting that with the former chief executive Charles Green.
This legal battle and Whyte's claim that Green reneged on a deal that would have meant Whyte had an ongoing financial interest in Rangers was mentioned in Rangers' annual report as a "contingent liability".
Although Rangers are confident Whyte's claims are groundless, this unquantifiable component could hamper attempts to secure external finance.
Quote from: deiseach on February 20, 2014, 12:31:02 PM
Here we go again!
QuoteRangers in talks to borrow £1.5m to aid running of club (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26269789)
Rangers have confirmed that they are holding discussions with two major shareholders for a loan of £1.5m to aid the running of the club.
In a Stock Exchange statement, the club said terms have not been finalised.
Earlier this month, chief executive Graham Wallace refuted "ill-informed and inaccurate" claims that the club was on the brink of insolvency.
The club reported a £14m operating loss for the 13 months to June after £22m was raised in a share issue in 2012.
BBC Scotland has learned the discussions are taking place with Laxey Partners and the Easdale brothers James and Sandy. The latter two hold positions on the boards of The Rangers Football Club Limited and its parent company The Rangers International Football Club PLC.
At December's Annual General Meeting, Wallace said the club faces "a significant number of challenges" but had a "platform of stability" to make progress.
In January, manager Ally McCoist signed off on a cut to his wages of about 50%, which he had agreed to in October, but players rejected a proposal of pay cuts of 15% until summer 2015.
Speculation has mounted in recent months that the club is running out of working capital and would have difficulty meeting February's staff wages.
The Scottish League One outfit received calls from concerned supporters and shareholders following online discussions regarding an impending insolvency event.
The concerns prompted a response from Wallace refuting the claims and insisting the club was continuing to rebuild.
A club statement read: "The club wishes to make clear that these allegations are totally inaccurate and that the chief executive and board of directors are fully focussed on the restructuring and rebuilding of Rangers Football Club as previously announced.
"The club has decided to make this statement as unchallenged, ill-informed and inaccurate comments are damaging to the reputation of Rangers Football Club."
Rangers have been examining various means of raising short-term capital over the past few weeks.
The company's annual report stated it had access to an unsecured facility of £2.5m, though it remains unclear whether that has been used.
An additional complication is the ongoing dispute over the ownership of Sevco 5088, which is a subsidiary of The Rangers International Football Club PLC.
The former Rangers owner Craig Whyte is contesting that with the former chief executive Charles Green.
This legal battle and Whyte's claim that Green reneged on a deal that would have meant Whyte had an ongoing financial interest in Rangers was mentioned in Rangers' annual report as a "contingent liability".
Although Rangers are confident Whyte's claims are groundless, this unquantifiable component could hamper attempts to secure external finance.
It is a very hard time to be a Loyalist with Rangers on the edge and Scotland threatening to leave the UK
As a die hard Celtic fan, even I admire the 40,000 plus Rangers fans who continue to attend home games, through their club is in disarray for a number of years with no sign of getting better. Surely the point is coming where they'll say enough is enough
FFS How can the basics of high wages for low productivity etc not be understood, by anyone at Accountin Technician level never mind Financial Directors?
Quote from: T Fearon on February 20, 2014, 03:53:15 PM
As a die hard Celtic fan, even I admire the 40,000 plus Rangers fans who continue to attend home games, through their club is in disarray for a number of years with no sign of getting better. Surely the point is coming where they'll say enough is enough
FFS How can the basics of high wages for low productivity etc not be understood, by anyone at Accountin Technician level never mind Financial Directors?
isn't jon daly on something like 5K a week to play in the 3rd tier of scottish football :o
Rangers are currently losing just over £1 million a month, even paying players £5k a week does not measure up. The hierarchy of that club are the ones fleecing it out by the roots. FFS super Sally was on stupid money (can't remember the exact amount but it was something like £600,000 to £800.000 salary). He agreed a pay cut and they still didn't take it of him for months until it was brought out in the media....
I know a few season ticket holders at Govan and they have both told me they'll not be renewing after this year
It's gas, Rangers are 5 (out of 12) games away from Automatic promotion. And they are already are in a definite promotion playoff place with 12 games to go! Why does a club need to win a league so emphatically. Realistically this league probably needs a lesser player on lesser wages that would be lesser cost to the club? I know such a 'Big' club needs to be back in the top tier of it's Domestic game as soon as it can, but they are going to be back financially where they started when they get there.
QuoteIt's gas, Rangers are 5 (out of 12) games away from Automatic promotion. And they are already are in a definite promotion playoff place with 12 games to go! Why does a club need to win a league so emphatically. Realistically this league probably needs a lesser player on lesser wages that would be lesser cost to the club? I know such a 'Big' club needs to be back in the top tier of it's Domestic game as soon as it can, but they are going to be back financially where they started when they get there.
I disagree. For Rangers to get back where they belong they need to buy at least 10 more top-dollar ageing players with a enticement that their current club wages are guaranteed forever. As a big club they shouldn't worry about small things like current revenue, just put the purchase price on the long finger. For heaves sake they've millions of supporters in Scotland and OWC! How can they fail as the chosen people?
How can a club get back to where they belong when they have never played in the top tier. The current club that plays at Ibrox is a new club. The previous club that played at Ibrox was liquidated.
Quote from: reddgnhand on February 21, 2014, 12:52:04 AM
How can a club get back to where they belong when they have never played in the top tier. The current club that plays at Ibrox is a new club. The previous club that played at Ibrox was liquidated.
So basically they are no different to a US franchise team.
By the way, what is the official name Rangers go by now? 'I can't believe it's not Rangers', 'Rangers Light' or what?
Quote from: under the bar on February 20, 2014, 10:43:51 PM
QuoteIt's gas, Rangers are 5 (out of 12) games away from Automatic promotion. And they are already are in a definite promotion playoff place with 12 games to go! Why does a club need to win a league so emphatically. Realistically this league probably needs a lesser player on lesser wages that would be lesser cost to the club? I know such a 'Big' club needs to be back in the top tier of it's Domestic game as soon as it can, but they are going to be back financially where they started when they get there.
I disagree. For Rangers to get back where they belong they need to buy at least 10 more top-dollar ageing players with a enticement that their current club wages are guaranteed forever. As a big club they shouldn't worry about small things like current revenue, just put the purchase price on the long finger. For heaves sake they've millions of supporters in Scotland and OWC! How can they fail as the chosen people?
I had to highlight them words there and as RedHand there pointed out they are a new club (2 year old) and they don't deserve anything. As long as they continue to lose over £1million a month that is just not sustainable and if it's not sorted quickly we will be looking at a Rangers no3 branch
Quote from: illdecide on February 21, 2014, 08:45:35 AM
Quote from: under the bar on February 20, 2014, 10:43:51 PM
QuoteIt's gas, Rangers are 5 (out of 12) games away from Automatic promotion. And they are already are in a definite promotion playoff place with 12 games to go! Why does a club need to win a league so emphatically. Realistically this league probably needs a lesser player on lesser wages that would be lesser cost to the club? I know such a 'Big' club needs to be back in the top tier of it's Domestic game as soon as it can, but they are going to be back financially where they started when they get there.
I disagree. For Rangers to get back where they belong they need to buy at least 10 more top-dollar ageing players with a enticement that their current club wages are guaranteed forever. As a big club they shouldn't worry about small things like current revenue, just put the purchase price on the long finger. For heaves sake they've millions of supporters in Scotland and OWC! How can they fail as the chosen people?
I had to highlight them words there and as RedHand there pointed out they are a new club (2 year old) and they don't deserve anything. As long as they continue to lose over £1million a month that is just not sustainable and if it's not sorted quickly we will be looking at a Rangers no3 branch
What a wonderful example of how to fail to understand irony.
Yeah Yeah to quick of the mark... ;)
Quote from: under the bar on February 20, 2014, 10:43:51 PM
QuoteIt's gas, Rangers are 5 (out of 12) games away from Automatic promotion. And they are already are in a definite promotion playoff place with 12 games to go! Why does a club need to win a league so emphatically. Realistically this league probably needs a lesser player on lesser wages that would be lesser cost to the club? I know such a 'Big' club needs to be back in the top tier of it's Domestic game as soon as it can, but they are going to be back financially where they started when they get there.
I disagree. For Rangers to get back where they belong they need to buy at least 10 more top-dollar ageing players with a enticement that their current club wages are guaranteed forever. As a big club they shouldn't worry about small things like current revenue, just put the purchase price on the long finger. For heaves sake they've millions of supporters in Scotland and OWC! How can they fail as the chosen people?
Nah, growth needs to be incremental? Taylor your costs to needs. Over spending to get promoted from the league they are in is madness. As the Club grows the players will come, but throwing money at the present league shows the club has not learned it lessons! Celtic wait to open the purse strings after qualification for the group stages of the Champions League. No qualification - no big purchases. Otherwise it is a waste of money in a league they have sown up!
Quote. Celtic wait to open the purse strings after qualification for the group stages of the Champions League. No qualification - no big purchases. Otherwise it is a waste of money in a league they have sown up!
Even when they do qualify the money on individual players remains (relatively) small. Celtic go broad and cheap rather than buy 1 or 2 of proven quality, such is the nature of what is now a selling club.
The 'find' of a Wanyama, Commons, van Dijk or Forster is always put forward to gloss over the waste of money on players like Balde (Amido), Pukki, Boerrigter, Biton and Bangura.
It's a disgrace that in a 1 horse race there are few homegrown young players getting a regular chance in this team (beyond Forrest and to a lesser extent Fisher)
What is also particularly annoying is that when the biscuit tin comes out there is a marked reluctance to (for example) combine the Pukki and Balde (15 goals in 64 games between them the season before joining Celtic ) money to buy someone with a proven goal scoring record (eg Finnbogason 28 in 35 last year and currently 23 from 23 )
Quote from: tyroneman on February 22, 2014, 08:23:06 AM
Quote. Celtic wait to open the purse strings after qualification for the group stages of the Champions League. No qualification - no big purchases. Otherwise it is a waste of money in a league they have sown up!
Even when they do qualify the money on individual players remains (relatively) small. Celtic go broad and cheap rather than buy 1 or 2 of proven quality, such is the nature of what is now a selling club.
The 'find' of a Wanyama, Commons, van Dijk or Forster is always put forward to gloss over the waste of money on players like Balde (Amido), Pukki, Boerrigter, Biton and Bangura.
It's a disgrace that in a 1 horse race there are few homegrown young players getting a regular chance in this team (beyond Forrest and to a lesser extent Fisher)
What is also particularly annoying is that when the biscuit tin comes out there is a marked reluctance to (for example) combine the Pukki and Balde (15 goals in 64 games between them the season before joining Celtic ) money to buy someone with a proven goal scoring record (eg Finnbogason 28 in 35 last year and currently 23 from 23 )
Why would Finnbogason want to join Celtic? That would be less than a sideways move for him. The Eredivisie is a better standard than the SPL. He's likely to move to the Bundesliga or the EPL and is valued at about Eur 10m.
Van Dijk had not got many suitors, Celtic could take a Eur3m gamble on him and it just happened to work out.
Biton looks a good signing, so also Griffiths and Johansen.
Despite the dross, Lennon scores 7.5/10 on the signings.
Quote from: BennyCake on February 21, 2014, 01:40:47 AM
Quote from: reddgnhand on February 21, 2014, 12:52:04 AM
How can a club get back to where they belong when they have never played in the top tier. The current club that plays at Ibrox is a new club. The previous club that played at Ibrox was liquidated.
So basically they are no different to a US franchise team.
By the way, what is the official name Rangers go by now? 'I can't believe it's not Rangers', 'Rangers Light' or what?
How about
St. Rangers?
Quote from: Main Street on February 22, 2014, 05:40:45 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on February 22, 2014, 08:23:06 AM
Quote. Celtic wait to open the purse strings after qualification for the group stages of the Champions League. No qualification - no big purchases. Otherwise it is a waste of money in a league they have sown up!
Even when they do qualify the money on individual players remains (relatively) small. Celtic go broad and cheap rather than buy 1 or 2 of proven quality, such is the nature of what is now a selling club.
The 'find' of a Wanyama, Commons, van Dijk or Forster is always put forward to gloss over the waste of money on players like Balde (Amido), Pukki, Boerrigter, Biton and Bangura.
It's a disgrace that in a 1 horse race there are few homegrown young players getting a regular chance in this team (beyond Forrest and to a lesser extent Fisher)
What is also particularly annoying is that when the biscuit tin comes out there is a marked reluctance to (for example) combine the Pukki and Balde (15 goals in 64 games between them the season before joining Celtic ) money to buy someone with a proven goal scoring record (eg Finnbogason 28 in 35 last year and currently 23 from 23 )
Why would Finnbogason want to join Celtic? That would be less than a sideways move for him. The Eredivisie is a better standard than the SPL. He's likely to move to the Bundesliga or the EPL and is valued at about Eur 10m.
Van Dijk had not got many suitors, Celtic could take a Eur3m gamble on him and it just happened to work out.
Biton looks a good signing, so also Griffiths and Johansen.
Despite the dross, Lennon scores 7.5/10 on the signings.
Why would Finnbogason want to join Celtic..ummm CL football?
Last year he was available for £4.5-5mill, easily in reach.
Griffiths and Johansen have played 9 games in all competitions between them. Bit early to judge.
What objective measure demonstrates the EV is 'better' than the SPL in the past 10 years? Maybe more competitive if that's what you mean.
Quote from: tyroneman on February 22, 2014, 09:20:14 PM
Quote from: Main Street on February 22, 2014, 05:40:45 PM
Quote from: tyroneman on February 22, 2014, 08:23:06 AM
Quote. Celtic wait to open the purse strings after qualification for the group stages of the Champions League. No qualification - no big purchases. Otherwise it is a waste of money in a league they have sown up!
Even when they do qualify the money on individual players remains (relatively) small. Celtic go broad and cheap rather than buy 1 or 2 of proven quality, such is the nature of what is now a selling club.
The 'find' of a Wanyama, Commons, van Dijk or Forster is always put forward to gloss over the waste of money on players like Balde (Amido), Pukki, Boerrigter, Biton and Bangura.
It's a disgrace that in a 1 horse race there are few homegrown young players getting a regular chance in this team (beyond Forrest and to a lesser extent Fisher)
What is also particularly annoying is that when the biscuit tin comes out there is a marked reluctance to (for example) combine the Pukki and Balde (15 goals in 64 games between them the season before joining Celtic ) money to buy someone with a proven goal scoring record (eg Finnbogason 28 in 35 last year and currently 23 from 23 )
Why would Finnbogason want to join Celtic? That would be less than a sideways move for him. The Eredivisie is a better standard than the SPL. He's likely to move to the Bundesliga or the EPL and is valued at about Eur 10m.
Van Dijk had not got many suitors, Celtic could take a Eur3m gamble on him and it just happened to work out.
Biton looks a good signing, so also Griffiths and Johansen.
Despite the dross, Lennon scores 7.5/10 on the signings.
Why would Finnbogason want to join Celtic..ummm CL football?
Last year he was available for £4.5-5mill, easily in reach.
Griffiths and Johansen have played 9 games in all competitions between them. Bit early to judge.
What objective measure demonstrates the EV is 'better' than the SPL in the past 10 years? Maybe more competitive if that's what you mean.
That was paper talk about Finnbogason's low value. There are 2 aspects, club's transfer value and player's ambitions, Celtic did not satisfy either.
CL football on its own is not enough, the good players want to be playing in a more competitive, high profile leagues and more money of course. Wanyama, Hooper, Ledley moved away from Celtic to clubs which have little or no chance of CL football. The SPL generates similar tv money to a Scandanavian league. The Eredivisie is stronger now and will remain stronger than the SPL. Which league was stronger 10 years ago has no relevance now. The EV is ranked 8th in European leagues, the SPL is ranked 23rd and most of the SPL ranking points come from Celtic. Strength in depth is the obvious advantage over the EPL. Take Celtic and Ajax out of the equation and compare what's left. Much of the Netherlands' squad plays there, the back 4 in the starting team play there. Finnbogason will most likely move to EPL, BL or Serie A. He has been on the radar of clubs around Europe for 3 years since the Euro u21 finals in 2011, Celtic could have spotted him in the 2011 qualifiers when Iceland trashed NI and made an offer. They could have possibly gambled on signing him as a promising star after the 2011 u21 Euro finals for £1m and held onto him for 2 seasons. But that would be the type of speculative transfer policy you object to.
Ideally I agree, get a good player instead of 3 which turn out be dross, but you need a crystal ball.
Fact is Celtic have money to spend,but find it hard to attract the right kind of player.The club will not spend big money on a player in his late twenties and in a situation where the tv money doesn't compare with the bigger leagues,and you can't charge £90 or £100 quid admission like Arsenal or Chelsea, the club's survival strategy is buy cheap and young,develop and sell at a significant profit.
The real shame is that a lot of promising young players are expertly developed by the club,but never get a chance in the first team.
Overall not bad by Lennon, but you'd want a better fist made of it in the CL group stages.
From Summer 2010 - june 2014 profits on transfers £21m
wage bill about £31m p/a
Team players
Commons 300.000 Stokes 1.275,000 Forster 2.800,000 Izzaguire 650.000 Kayal 1.600.000 Matthews 200,000 Mulgrew Free Ambrose ? Lustig free Van Dijk 2,650,000
New kids doing good
Biton 720,000 Johansen 2.100,000 Griffiths 1,000,000
Very tame so far
Pukki 2.200,000 Boerrigter 2,2000,000 Balde 1,540,000 Rogic 420,000 out on loan
Total waste
Bangura 1.936,000
Moved on
Murphy 1.500,000 sold free Hooper 2.500.000 sold 5.5m Ledley free went cheap
Cha free Wanyama 920,000 sold12.7m K Wilson free sold 2.5m Majstorovic free Juarez free
Thought Pukki took his goal very well yesterday, and hopefully it will give him confidence to push on
Quote from: T Fearon on February 23, 2014, 08:42:12 PM
Thought Pukki took his goal very well yesterday, and hopefully it will give him confidence to push on
If he can score another then he'll push on, to the new kid doing good section.
I guess talk of the plastic treble are over.........
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2598235/Raith-Rovers-1-0-Rangers-match-report-Bairds-extra-time-goal-gives-minnows-Ramsdens-Cup-win.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-2598235/Raith-Rovers-1-0-Rangers-match-report-Bairds-extra-time-goal-gives-minnows-Ramsdens-Cup-win.html)
They'll be dancing in the streets of Raith tonight.
Quote from: deiseach on April 06, 2014, 10:26:12 PM
They'll be dancing in the streets of Raith tonight.
Is there more than one street in Raith? :P
The Big Cod Cup Final ;D Alistair will be under enormous pressure when Dundee Utd dump Rangers out of the Scottish Cup next weekend
Lennon's league win gets him to Europe, so it's not at all hollow
Did Raith win? What was this match anyway? The same as the English Milk/Coca Cola Cup?
There won't be a cow milked in Raith tonight...
Quote from: BennyCake on April 07, 2014, 12:33:19 AM
Did Raith win? What was this match anyway? The same as the English Milk/Coca Cola Cup?
There won't be a cow milked in Raith tonight...
Nah, it would be like The Football League Trophy, also known as the Johnstone's Paint Trophy.
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on April 07, 2014, 12:12:11 AM
Lennon's league win gets him to Europe, so it's not at all hollow
His budget absolutely dwarfs everybody else in the league so he has to win it by very considerable margin. With no real threat from Rangers he should also have an easy treble but somehow managed to fail to win either of the domestic cups, losing at home to a side who are about to be relegated to the third tier in one of them. To end up with just the league title in these circumstances was indeed a hollow success, reflected by the poor crowds throughout the season. I think most realistic Celtic fans accept that it was a season of failure at Parkhead.
Quote from: Lamh Dhearg Alba on April 08, 2014, 10:17:18 PM
Quote from: THE MIGHTY QUINN on April 07, 2014, 12:12:11 AM
Lennon's league win gets him to Europe, so it's not at all hollow
His budget absolutely dwarfs everybody else in the league so he has to win it by very considerable margin. With no real threat from Rangers he should also have an easy treble but somehow managed to fail to win either of the domestic cups, losing at home to a side who are about to be relegated to the third tier in one of them. To end up with just the league title in these circumstances was indeed a hollow success, reflected by the poor crowds throughout the season. I think most realistic Celtic fans accept that it was a season of failure at Parkhead.
Celtic won the league with a commendable nr. of points gained. The best ever by any team, against teams, who in some knowledgeable opinions, are all the stronger by not having Rangers there. The cup campaigns were a failure obviously but Celtic are ending their season by playing good football and wiping the floor.
Who gives a toss what you think ;D you're a Celtic fc hater aren't you? probably one of those prejudiced Scots who just loves to hate Celtic?
Lol @ Rangers Keeper. Paddy Cullen-esque! :D
Looks like Rangers will have to do with winning the (Division 1) League title. That's two league titles in a row. Next year they can go for three in a row. Only six more then to equal the record. ;D
More trouble at "The Big Hoose". New Rangers could follow the old club's path into administration within the year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/27165564 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/27165564)
Quote from: Lecale2 on April 26, 2014, 12:22:46 PM
More trouble at "The Big Hoose". New Rangers could follow the old club's path into administration within the year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/27165564 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/27165564)
I cannot get over how they have to spend so much money? Why? They had the League title tied up before Paddys day. So I don't see how they need to have the quality of players that they have yet?
How many times can they fail and be resurrected. The Scottish Shamrock Rovers....
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/27177760
Wallace being probed by cops and the Huns not accepting credit card/debit card payments for season books as it is too costly to administer ... s'pose I'd better get the jelly and ice cream supplies in, sit back and enjoy them implode... again
Wallace has nothing to answer for. Under stock market rules when he sated that Rangers were capable of being a going concern for the next 12 months he is entitled to rely on financial projections. He is entitled to assume that the season ticket money would be greater than this season and also allowed to assume that any future share issue would be similar to the last share issue. Ok, both of these assumptions are a bit of a stretch but not totally obviously false. As such, they are within reasonable possibility and Wallace is allowed to make them when stating going concern status. Nothing is certain in business so the stock market allows a fair bit of leeway when making statements.
I am more interested in the actions of Dave King. Here is a man with plenty of cash who claims to be a Rangers fan. But every statement he makes causes Rangers serious financial and administrative problems. He isn't just mouthing off he knows that he is causing the downfall of the club. In fact directly he called to withhold season ticket money which would almost certainly bankrupt the club. Interestingly he has never taken shares which means he can say what he likes without breaking stock market rules on price sensitive information.
I am thinking Dave King positively wants Rangers to go bust. He wants them in administration. Because then he could buy them for £1 and pay of debts which would be a lot cheaper than just buying £10M shares to get a 60% control.
Mike Ashley having to bail them out, Craigy boy extradited from Mexico to appear in court, the Rangers shop in Belfast city centre closing down, Castle Greyskull looking at yet another share issue ... there's no end to this soap opera
Quote from: red hander on November 28, 2014, 06:01:20 PM
Mike Ashley having to bail them out, Craigy boy extradited from Mexico to appear in court, the Rangers shop in Belfast city centre closing down, Castle Greyskull looking at yet another share issue ... there's no end to this soap opera
Hopefully not, long may it continue. As long as a club can get 30k supporters through the gate every week it'll not go bust, a cash cow but not in the conventional sense
I did laugh last week at Glasgow Airport where the Celtic and Rangers shops sit literally side by side,and outside the Rangers shop is a massive sign proclaiming Rangers as Scotland's most successive club!
Well, they certainly succeeded the old liquidated club, and if they're liquidated again, as looks likely, no doubt they'll be succeeded again by another Rangers, so yes, Tony, they are Scotland's most successive club ;)
Quote from: Lecale2 on April 26, 2014, 12:22:46 PM
More trouble at "The Big Hoose". New Rangers could follow the old club's path into administration within the year.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/27165564 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/27165564)
Le cúnamh Dé.
Quote from: red hander on November 28, 2014, 06:01:20 PM
Mike Ashley having to bail them out, Craigy boy extradited from Mexico to appear in court, the Rangers shop in Belfast city centre closing down, Castle Greyskull looking at yet another share issue ... there's no end to this soap opera
Find this bit strange. Why has he done this?
Easy route to europe?
Big fan base?
Quote from: hardstation on November 28, 2014, 11:54:58 PM
Quote from: pullhard on November 28, 2014, 11:49:15 PM
Quote from: red hander on November 28, 2014, 06:01:20 PM
Mike Ashley having to bail them out, Craigy boy extradited from Mexico to appear in court, the Rangers shop in Belfast city centre closing down, Castle Greyskull looking at yet another share issue ... there's no end to this soap opera
Find this bit strange. Why has he done this?
Easy route to europe?
Big fan base?
No, his brother is heavily involved in the Rangers debacle. Check this out....
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ
Crazy stuff.
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/a9/a9bd4220f86a7078fdfed5e39016225fb47079c12a1553672424a2cca55436e8.jpg)
Quote from: red hander on November 28, 2014, 06:01:20 PM
Mike Ashley having to bail them out, Craigy boy extradited from Mexico to appear in court, the Rangers shop in Belfast city centre closing down, Castle Greyskull looking at yet another share issue ... there's no end to this soap opera
i wondered about the extradition from Mexico bit. Not even the super brits could have pulled off an extradition that fast. It turns out he was detained before entry to Mexico therefore he didn't have to be extradited, the grounds for refusal of entry and forced return to England, were that he was fleeing an outstanding warrant.
Just another few metres and Craig would have been safe in the bosoms of a handful of lawyers.
Super Ally McCoist has offered to resign but tbhe Board can't afford to accept.
Quote from: Lecale2 on December 12, 2014, 04:28:28 PM
Super Ally McCoist has offered to resign but tbhe Board can't afford to accept.
Comical alright...they've big Tel Butcher lined up for the job but can't afford to pay Sally off...
2-0 to Queen of the South. Oh Lordy...
Always a good pub quiz question, which town are Queen of the South from.
They'll be dancing in the streets of Queen of the South tonight!
Quote from: Aaron Boone on December 12, 2014, 09:32:09 PM
Always a good pub quiz question, which town are Queen of the South from.
Dumfries ;)
It's going to be fun(nier than usual) watching The Peepul get tied into knots claiming that Sevconians are the same club when it comes to the good stuff but a new club when it comes to the liabilities:
QuoteSPFL to withhold Rangers' broadcast fee to cover EBT fine (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30510604)
The Scottish Professional Football League is withholding £250,000 of broadcast money due to Rangers in a bid to recoup a fine imposed for the club's use of a controversial tax scheme.
Lord Nimmo Smith imposed the fine in February 2013 after finding Rangers broke league rules in their use of an employee benefit trust scheme.
Rangers say they will appeal against the SPFL decision "vigorously".
They argue that the company in breach of the rules has since been liquidated.
However, BBC Scotland has learned that Rangers' directors approached the SPFL board in the past few months to discuss payment terms relating to the fine.
Lord Nimmo Smith's commission studied the use of EBTs by Rangers Football Club plc, now in the process of being liquidated by BDO, between 2000 and 2011.
It found that the company's management did not take professional advice on disclosing the payments.
The findings also stated that the current owners should not be held responsible for any breaches made by the previous company.
It also determined that Rangers should not be stripped of league titles because "Rangers FC did not gain any unfair competitive advantage" nor did the payments make players ineligible.
Despite Lord Nimmo Smith's ruling, the SPFL's lawyers have examined trying to recover the £250,000 under the so-called "Five-Way Agreement" that led to the transfer of Rangers' membership of the Scottish Football Association going ahead.
The Five-Way Agreement gave the football authorities power to recover football debts from the new owners of the Ibrox club.
A condition of the transfer of the club's SFA licence was the payment of all football debts.
The SPFL board have now decided to withhold payments due to the current company running Rangers rather than chase the cash through BDO, the latter likely to yield a smaller amount.
The SPFL issued a statement on Wednesday saying the fine related to "multiple breaches of SPL and Scottish FA rules".
It continued: "The Rangers Football Club Limited ("Rangers Newco") signed an agreement under which they would be liable for sums such as this. The Chairman of Rangers FC, David Somers, and on one occasion the club's then Chief Executive Graham Wallace, engaged in individual discussions with the majority of current SPFL Board members several months ago acknowledging the liability and suggesting ways of paying the sums due.
"Following such discussions, it was only when no sums actually arrived from Rangers FC that the SPFL Board decided to offset this liability against future sums payable to the Club."
Rangers, in a statement to the Stock Exchange, said: "The board of the SPFL has determined that Rangers Football Club Limited (the "Club") is liable to pay the EBT Commission fine of £250,000 levied on RFC 2012 PLC (previously The Rangers Football Club plc) (in liquidation).
"The SPFL has also decided that this sum will be recovered from the Club by the SPFL withholding broadcasting money and other sums due to the Club but which are paid in the first instance to the SPFL.
"An appeal has been lodged with the Judicial Panel of the Scottish FA which has confirmed that the decision of the SPFL is suspended pending the outcome of the appeal subject to the SPFL's right to object.
"The Board is advised that the sum is not due to SPFL and the appeal will be pursued vigorously."
Rangers are mired in financial problems. Last month an announcement to the Stock Exchange stated "further working capital...will be needed before the end of the year".
That followed a cash injection by Newcastle United owner and Rangers shareholder Mike Ashley, an arrangement that is itself the subject of a notice of complaint by the SFA.
And manager Ally McCoist has tendered his resignation , triggering an increase in his salary to £750,000 per year. He is now serving his 12 months' notice at the club but will meet directors on Wednesday, with a settlement fee to leave sooner a possible result.
Way to go Ally. Drain them of more funds and fill your coffers for future pies.
We're sevco when we need to be!
Quote from: foxcommander on December 17, 2014, 05:23:41 PM
Way to go Ally. Drain them of more funds and fill your coffers for future pies.
We're sevco when we need to be!
In fairness he was not working for a charity organisation. Staff working for an business have to be paid.
Quote from: From the Bunker on December 17, 2014, 05:52:44 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on December 17, 2014, 05:23:41 PM
Way to go Ally. Drain them of more funds and fill your coffers for future pies.
We're sevco when we need to be!
In fairness he was not working for a charity organisation. Staff working for an business have to be paid.
Come off it
It's not like he was on the breadline !!
He activated a clause in his contract as a parting shot - knowing full well they are financially screwed.
Rangers through and through they used to say about him - well actually that action kind of proves it!
Have to agree with mad badger on that one !
If that was Celtic and Larsson or similar club Icon did that, there'd be no forgiveness ( ask Lou macari about that)
Sevco have let a lot of staff members go yet McCoist is set to get paid 750,000 (unless they go tits up yet again.
Some fans are very supportive of McCoist and some are resentful that he is going to be paid obscene amounts of money as his former colleagues sit on the dole!
Personally speaking, he did the work, he deserves to be paid what they agreed to pay him, he was a Glasgow Rangers legend and deserves respect for his service to these clubs!
Anybody need any gardening done?
Haven't been following this - what has McCoist done wrong - are they not in a decent position in the league?
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 22, 2014, 09:30:54 AM
Haven't been following this - what has McCoist done wrong - are they not in a decent position in the league?
Hearts wage bill - £2,890,000 (http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-accounts-administration-halves-wage-bill-1-3634831)
Sevco wage bill - £6-7 million (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25736543)
Quote from: deiseach on December 22, 2014, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 22, 2014, 09:30:54 AM
Haven't been following this - what has McCoist done wrong - are they not in a decent position in the league?
Hearts wage bill - £2,890,000 (http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-accounts-administration-halves-wage-bill-1-3634831)
Sevco wage bill - £6-7 million (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25736543)
To be fair to Sally, I don't that was his doing. He wouldn't remind you of someone who would be well in to the detail of the contracts.
It would be a club decision. Looks like they have taken a punt to get back up as quickly as possible and now that it is looking like a dodgy enough gamble maybe they are getting nervous.
Quote from: NAG1 on December 22, 2014, 10:10:21 AM
Quote from: deiseach on December 22, 2014, 09:43:50 AM
Quote from: DuffleKing on December 22, 2014, 09:30:54 AM
Haven't been following this - what has McCoist done wrong - are they not in a decent position in the league?
Hearts wage bill - £2,890,000 (http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-accounts-administration-halves-wage-bill-1-3634831)
Sevco wage bill - £6-7 million (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/25736543)
To be fair to Sally, I don't that was his doing. He wouldn't remind you of someone who would be well in to the detail of the contracts.
It would be a club decision. Looks like they have taken a punt to get back up as quickly as possible and now that it is looking like a dodgy enough gamble maybe they are getting nervous.
That's fair comment, it isn't entirely or even mostly his fault that 'Rangers' are broke
again. But he has been given resources that dwarf the clubs around him and trailing Hearts by as much as they are has to be counted as failure.
Only one team goes up?
Only league winners go up automatically. There is a promotion playoff for 2nd place.
Absolute comedy gold following the AGM at Ibrox on the Mirror's website (http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/rangers-agm-live-latest-after-4852218). They've referenced this gem of a tweet (https://twitter.com/allanwiggins5/status/546991042772611073): "Ashamed to say that the Easdales are Protestants the same as me we shouldnt act that way". ;D
I think it will come out of the woodwork yet that McCoist was trying to pull a fast one by handing in his notice and it has now backfired.
Its rumoured that Ally wasnt happy with the amount of people losing their jobs. McCoist supposedly was trying to force the clubs hand and stop the redundancies. His thoughts - hand in his notice which would trigger the extra £325k to be paid to him - hoping the club would not accept his resignation and stop making people redundant. In reality the board have been hit with having to pay the £750k to him as his salary and will make even more people redundnat.
Another share issue being requested. If Ashley is forced to concede position by the SFA then Rangers are gone. Ashley wont hang about looking for long term returns, its short term gains he wants.
Shambolic running of the club - Celtic fans (myself included) are at odds with how Celtic spend their money but it could be alot worse. You have to speculate to accumulate but in Scotland speculating will most definitely not lead to accumulating anything.
Amusing as it is to watch the shambles at Rangers are Celtic not ultimately doomed without them?
I think at the time the Celtic board tried to paint a picture they were secure and Rangers wouldnt affect them - any fan that believed that was naive. You just have to look at the number of fans going to the games. The board kicked themselves in the teeth when they raised ticket prices the first year when Rangers went down.
They have done nothing in the form of marketing, special deals etc. to try and get crowd back. Could go on all day but I think the board and club could have done more to try and protect Celtic rather than just keep money from selling players to top up accounts.
Of course Celtic are fecked without Rangers. Both on and off the field. Celtic-Rangers is the only cash cow in Scottish football, there was never any way around that.
Celtic are not fecked without the Huns.
Will never be enough money in Scottish soccer again to have Celtic competitive at CL level- with or without the Huns , but Celtic will keep winning and dominating most years.
Celtic park not full as there is a bit of a recession still in Scotland !
Attendance still over 35k each home game afaik
Celtic need to get out of Scotland - they would be more attractive to epl without the violent baggage that the hun hoardes bring!
That said, I can't see the Huns be let die as a club.
They are the establishment
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 22, 2014, 04:37:11 PM
Celtic are not fecked without the Huns.
Will never be enough money in Scottish soccer again to have Celtic competitive at CL level- with or without the Huns , but Celtic will keep winning and dominating most years.
Celtic park not full as there is a bit of a recession still in Scotland !
Attendance still over 35k each home game afaik
Celtic need to get out of Scotland - they would be more attractive to epl without the violent baggage that the hun hoardes bring!
That said, I can't see the Huns be let die as a club.
They are the establishment
They are not good enough to play league 1 in England let alone premier league. Celtic's problem is the premier league brand is solid enough and they can't bring anything new to the table on their own.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 22, 2014, 04:37:11 PM
Celtic are not fecked without the Huns.
Will never be enough money in Scottish soccer again to have Celtic competitive at CL level- with or without the Huns , but Celtic will keep winning and dominating most years.
Celtic park not full as there is a bit of a recession still in Scotland !
Attendance still over 35k each home game afaik
Celtic need to get out of Scotland - they would be more attractive to epl without the violent baggage that the hun hoardes bring!
That said, I can't see the Huns be let die as a club.
They are the establishment
Money talks and the huns are about out of chances, they are a nest of vipers and will feck everyone and anyone to get out of paying what they owe.
They are struggling to get out of the division they are in yet have spent three times more money on wages than the team above them! The mind boggles!
Quote from: thebigfella on December 22, 2014, 04:57:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 22, 2014, 04:37:11 PM
Celtic are not fecked without the Huns.
Will never be enough money in Scottish soccer again to have Celtic competitive at CL level- with or without the Huns , but Celtic will keep winning and dominating most years.
Celtic park not full as there is a bit of a recession still in Scotland !
Attendance still over 35k each home game afaik
Celtic need to get out of Scotland - they would be more attractive to epl without the violent baggage that the hun hoardes bring!
That said, I can't see the Huns be let die as a club.
They are the establishment
They are not good enough to play league 1 in England let alone premier league. Celtic's problem is the premier league brand is solid enough and they can't bring anything new to the table on their own.
The point is that if they can get into the lower leagues they can and will work their way up through the ranks, they are good enough to compete with lower level premier teams and if and when they got there they would have the money to compete with the big boys.
Quote from: thebigfella on December 22, 2014, 04:57:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 22, 2014, 04:37:11 PM
Celtic are not fecked without the Huns.
Will never be enough money in Scottish soccer again to have Celtic competitive at CL level- with or without the Huns , but Celtic will keep winning and dominating most years.
Celtic park not full as there is a bit of a recession still in Scotland !
Attendance still over 35k each home game afaik
Celtic need to get out of Scotland - they would be more attractive to epl without the violent baggage that the hun hoardes bring!
That said, I can't see the Huns be let die as a club.
They are the establishment
They are not good enough to play league 1 in England let alone premier league. Celtic's problem is the premier league brand is solid enough and they can't bring anything new to the table on their own.
Celtic would cruise League 1 in fairness. The sooner Rangers are gone for good the better. Its up to Celtic to put forward their case for inclusion in English football if they want to go that way, they would offer plenty to the Championship and that would be their direct route to the PL.
Quote from: thebigfella on December 22, 2014, 04:57:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 22, 2014, 04:37:11 PM
Celtic are not fecked without the Huns.
Will never be enough money in Scottish soccer again to have Celtic competitive at CL level- with or without the Huns , but Celtic will keep winning and dominating most years.
Celtic park not full as there is a bit of a recession still in Scotland !
Attendance still over 35k each home game afaik
Celtic need to get out of Scotland - they would be more attractive to epl without the violent baggage that the hun hoardes bring!
That said, I can't see the Huns be let die as a club.
They are the establishment
They are not good enough to play league 1 in England let alone premier league. Celtic's problem is the premier league brand is solid enough and they can't bring anything new to the table on their own.
I suppose with their stadium, attendances, world wide support, history etc they couldn't really add to what Hull, Barnsley, QPR etc bring to the PL
Quote from: JoG2 on December 22, 2014, 06:47:11 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 22, 2014, 04:57:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 22, 2014, 04:37:11 PM
Celtic are not fecked without the Huns.
Will never be enough money in Scottish soccer again to have Celtic competitive at CL level- with or without the Huns , but Celtic will keep winning and dominating most years.
Celtic park not full as there is a bit of a recession still in Scotland !
Attendance still over 35k each home game afaik
Celtic need to get out of Scotland - they would be more attractive to epl without the violent baggage that the hun hoardes bring!
That said, I can't see the Huns be let die as a club.
They are the establishment
They are not good enough to play league 1 in England let alone premier league. Celtic's problem is the premier league brand is solid enough and they can't bring anything new to the table on their own.
I suppose with their stadium, attendances, world wide support, history etc they couldn't really add to what Hull, Barnsley, QPR etc bring to the PL
All fair points, but as a product I don't think the Premier League is crying out for Celtic.. I can't see Premier Leafue clubs voting for it when it'd mean one of them eventually missing out
Quote from: Boycey on December 22, 2014, 09:03:48 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 22, 2014, 06:47:11 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 22, 2014, 04:57:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 22, 2014, 04:37:11 PM
Celtic are not fecked without the Huns.
Will never be enough money in Scottish soccer again to have Celtic competitive at CL level- with or without the Huns , but Celtic will keep winning and dominating most years.
Celtic park not full as there is a bit of a recession still in Scotland !
Attendance still over 35k each home game afaik
Celtic need to get out of Scotland - they would be more attractive to epl without the violent baggage that the hun hoardes bring!
That said, I can't see the Huns be let die as a club.
They are the establishment
They are not good enough to play league 1 in England let alone premier league. Celtic's problem is the premier league brand is solid enough and they can't bring anything new to the table on their own.
I suppose with their stadium, attendances, world wide support, history etc they couldn't really add to what Hull, Barnsley, QPR etc bring to the PL
All fair points, but as a product I don't think the Premier League is crying out for Celtic.. I can't see Premier Leafue clubs voting for it when it'd mean one of them eventually missing out
which is why it'll never happen - turkeys ain't gonnae vote for christmas. however as stated the route to PL is throught the English Championship. i reckon even if a space became available in League 1 they would jump at it and try and do a Sevco through the leagues (albeit with a little less of a stained matress and absolute loss of history, trophies, etc). Question is either who in Championship/League 1 would make way, well by my reckoning either
a) the teams in the Championship/League 1 would jump at the chance to have Celtic in their league
b) eventually (and its a miracle it hasn't happened yet), a team will go belly up lock stock while in situ e.g. Leeds (though it won't be Leeds), maybe a Blackpool, Portsmouth or the likes. Goodbye Blackpool hello Celtic kinda situation
Year 1: promotion to Championship
Year 2/3/4: promotion to PL
anything along those lines would be dreamland for the Celts
Never mind the clubs and whether they'd vote to allow it, why would UEFA allow such a move? Sets a very dangerous precedent from the perspective of the European domestic leagues.
How come welsh teams can enter the english league? Would it be any different to celtic in england?
(Genuinely don't know and would be surprised to see celtic there but if uefa can allow one can they not allow the other?)
Quote from: Boycey on December 22, 2014, 09:03:48 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on December 22, 2014, 06:47:11 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on December 22, 2014, 04:57:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 22, 2014, 04:37:11 PM
Celtic are not fecked without the Huns.
Will never be enough money in Scottish soccer again to have Celtic competitive at CL level- with or without the Huns , but Celtic will keep winning and dominating most years.
Celtic park not full as there is a bit of a recession still in Scotland !
Attendance still over 35k each home game afaik
Celtic need to get out of Scotland - they would be more attractive to epl without the violent baggage that the hun hoardes bring!
That said, I can't see the Huns be let die as a club.
They are the establishment
They are not good enough to play league 1 in England let alone premier league. Celtic's problem is the premier league brand is solid enough and they can't bring anything new to the table on their own.
I suppose with their stadium, attendances, world wide support, history etc they couldn't really add to what Hull, Barnsley, QPR etc bring to the PL
All fair points, but as a product I don't think the Premier League is crying out for Celtic.. I can't see Premier Leafue clubs voting for it when it'd mean one of them eventually missing out
I think that it must be noted that money talks and Celtic would bring a different dimension to the premier league. They are a much bigger club than the majority of clubs in England and have possibly a bigger fan base than them all. With that money being generated towards Celtic they would challenge in the premier league I have no doubt about this also the extra sponsorship and tv deals that there would be with having a club of Glasgow Celtics stature in the EPL means it would be beneficial both ways. Ofcourse the teams at the bottom of the EPL and top of the championship would vote against this ever happening as has been already pointed out one of them would loose out on a spot. I would put them into the championship and let them come out of this and work their way up to the top flight on merit but honestly it will never happen. I can see an elite league happening whether it be a European type 12 team league or an atlantic coast style league consisting of teams from east coast America and western europe happening quicker.
Onto rangers as a season ticket holder at Celtic Park I couldn't care about themuns they cheated their way through life for long enough and have got caught serves them right. I doubt if they will fold as I don't think Ashley will let it happen but it will be interesting to see what punishment they will receive this time.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 22, 2014, 10:27:49 PM
How come welsh teams can enter the english league? Would it be any different to celtic in england?
(Genuinely don't know and would be surprised to see celtic there but if uefa can allow one can they not allow the other?)
The welsh teams inclusion would be the precident in my opinion and if the decision was properly lobbied and agreed then no reason for UEFA to stop it i would imagine. The whole Celtic Sevco as a package notion needs to be shelved, and it does kinda infultrate the Celtic to English football debate. Sevco are in the position they find themselves for good reason, why should that impact Celtic just because they have been prudent?
Quote from: thebigfella on December 22, 2014, 04:57:23 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 22, 2014, 04:37:11 PM
Celtic are not fecked without the Huns.
Will never be enough money in Scottish soccer again to have Celtic competitive at CL level- with or without the Huns , but Celtic will keep winning and dominating most years.
Celtic park not full as there is a bit of a recession still in Scotland !
Attendance still over 35k each home game afaik
Celtic need to get out of Scotland - they would be more attractive to epl without the violent baggage that the hun hoardes bring!
That said, I can't see the Huns be let die as a club.
They are the establishment
They are not good enough to play league 1 in England let alone premier league. Celtic's problem is the premier league brand is solid enough and they can't bring anything new to the table on their own.
I agree with stew's reply !
To be honest a couple of seasons ago they would have been but not now
But I left out the line where I think they should start in the second tier.
Even if it was div 4 they'd still earn their way up quickly enough - and the money they would get would have Celtic in top 7 in no time.
After that I don't know - unless Mon went back ...
Sorry but someone just said Celtic have a bigger fan base than Utd, Lpool, Chelsea, City... Celtics support comes from the green side of Glasgow, Green side of the North, some Free Staters and a class of weins in Thailand!!
For Celtic to move forward from here they need Rangers back or they need to get into England. Their appeal and fan base will continue to decline unless either of these 2 things happen.
Quote from: screenexile on December 22, 2014, 11:56:27 PM
Sorry but someone just said Celtic have a bigger fan base than Utd, Lpool, Chelsea, City... Celtics support comes from the green side of Glasgow, Green side of the North, some Free Staters and a class of weins in Thailand!!
For Celtic to move forward from here they need Rangers back or they need to get into England. Their appeal and fan base will continue to decline unless either of these 2 things happen.
Fan base def bigger than Chelsea ,City and most other English clubs
It's the international fan base
IMO Liverpool Man U would be around the same as Celtic internationally
Maybe bigger but I don't know for def.
Certainly nowhere in the same league as Barcelona or Real Madrid
But I agree they will better served by getting into English league
I'd have Celtic keep a reserve team in spl and enter into div 1 or 2 in English league and work their way up. Best of both worlds.
Quote from: imtommygunn on December 22, 2014, 10:27:49 PM
How come welsh teams can enter the english league? Would it be any different to celtic in england?
(Genuinely don't know and would be surprised to see celtic there but if uefa can allow one can they not allow the other?)
I think that those clubs joined the English league before there was a Welsh league. If so, there was never a point where they quit one league for the other.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 23, 2014, 12:34:26 AM
Quote from: screenexile on December 22, 2014, 11:56:27 PM
Sorry but someone just said Celtic have a bigger fan base than Utd, Lpool, Chelsea, City... Celtics support comes from the green side of Glasgow, Green side of the North, some Free Staters and a class of weins in Thailand!!
For Celtic to move forward from here they need Rangers back or they need to get into England. Their appeal and fan base will continue to decline unless either of these 2 things happen.
Fan base def bigger than Chelsea ,City and most other English clubs
It's the international fan base
IMO Liverpool Man U would be around the same as Celtic internationally
Maybe bigger but I don't know for def.
Certainly nowhere in the same league as Barcelona or Real Madrid
But I agree they will better served by getting into English league
I'd have Celtic keep a reserve team in spl and enter into div 1 or 2 in English league and work their way up. Best of both worlds.
Are you for real?
They already seem to be playing EPL teams at underage / reserve level, played Sunderland last week. Could be the start of something. The cross-border issue is not an issue in modern Europe, as UEFA & FIFA will one day find out in court, Bosman etc..
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 23, 2014, 12:34:26 AM
Quote from: screenexile on December 22, 2014, 11:56:27 PM
Sorry but someone just said Celtic have a bigger fan base than Utd, Lpool, Chelsea, City... Celtics support comes from the green side of Glasgow, Green side of the North, some Free Staters and a class of weins in Thailand!!
For Celtic to move forward from here they need Rangers back or they need to get into England. Their appeal and fan base will continue to decline unless either of these 2 things happen.
Fan base def bigger than Chelsea ,City and most other English clubs
It's the international fan base
IMO Liverpool Man U would be around the same as Celtic internationally
Maybe bigger but I don't know for def.
Certainly nowhere in the same league as Barcelona or Real Madrid
But I agree they will better served by getting into English league
I'd have Celtic keep a reserve team in spl and enter into div 1 or 2 in English league and work their way up. Best of both worlds.
How would you define and quantify the international fan base of a football club? I'm interested what measure you're using that has Liverpool and Man U on a par with Celtic
Quote from: bennydorano on December 23, 2014, 08:27:19 AM
They already seem to be playing EPL teams at underage / reserve level, played Sunderland last week. Could be the start of something. The cross-border issue is not an issue in modern Europe, as UEFA & FIFA will one day find out in court, Bosman etc..
What impact would Bosman have on rules concerning league membership?
Quote from: screenexile on December 22, 2014, 11:56:27 PM
Sorry but someone just said Celtic have a bigger fan base than Utd, Lpool, Chelsea, City... Celtics support comes from the green side of Glasgow, Green side of the North, some Free Staters and a class of weins in Thailand!!
For Celtic to move forward from here they need Rangers back or they need to get into England. Their appeal and fan base will continue to decline unless either of these 2 things happen.
Chelsea, Man City....what's that John McEnroe quote? :-)
Quote from: take_yer_points on December 23, 2014, 08:28:59 AM
How would you define and quantify the international fan base of a football club? I'm interested what measure you're using that has Liverpool and Man U on a par with Celtic
Almost everyone in southern Europe, Austria, Bavaria, Croatia, South & Central America, the Philippines . . . see a pattern emerging?
Quote from: bennydorano on December 23, 2014, 08:27:19 AM
They already seem to be playing EPL teams at underage / reserve level, played Sunderland last week. Could be the start of something. The cross-border issue is not an issue in modern Europe, as UEFA & FIFA will one day find out in court, Bosman etc..
It might be the start of something all right. Something has to change in European football, you can't have grand old clubs like Benfica, Ajax and Celtic perpetually denied access to the telly gravy train. However, I doubt the European Commission will do anything about it, any more than they interfere in national broadcasting cartels like the BBC and RTÉ. As long as individuals have the freedom to move, they won't be bothered.
Quote from: take_yer_points on December 23, 2014, 08:28:59 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on December 23, 2014, 12:34:26 AM
Quote from: screenexile on December 22, 2014, 11:56:27 PM
Sorry but someone just said Celtic have a bigger fan base than Utd, Lpool, Chelsea, City... Celtics support comes from the green side of Glasgow, Green side of the North, some Free Staters and a class of weins in Thailand!!
For Celtic to move forward from here they need Rangers back or they need to get into England. Their appeal and fan base will continue to decline unless either of these 2 things happen.
Fan base def bigger than Chelsea ,City and most other English clubs
It's the international fan base
IMO Liverpool Man U would be around the same as Celtic internationally
Maybe bigger but I don't know for def.
Certainly nowhere in the same league as Barcelona or Real Madrid
But I agree they will better served by getting into English league
I'd have Celtic keep a reserve team in spl and enter into div 1 or 2 in English league and work their way up. Best of both worlds.
How would you define and quantify the international fan base of a football club? I'm interested what measure you're using that has Liverpool and Man U on a par with Celtic
This kind of info crops up regularly enough - google it and see what you get.
I think it is in terms of marketing/merchandising.
Afaik the likes of Celtic are bigger in USA and Australia etc than most English clubs, but Man U would be huge in Asia - as were Liverpool but apparently on the decline after too many barren years.
Sorry Lynchbhoy Celtic wouldn't touch the sides of the pull United or Liverpool for that matter have worldwide
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03138/mumbai_3138019b.jpg)
Up to 30,000 people watched the United/Liverpool match in Mumbai a few weeks ago
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/11293593/Manchester-United-v-Liverpool-Tens-of-thousands-of-fans-watch-game-on-big-screen-in-Mumbai.html
107,000 watched United and Real in the US during the summer, no disrespect to Celtic put they're not in that league
If celtic were in the premier league they would have the potential to have the same fan base as United and Liverpool. The bottom line is they need out of scotland, into english premier league or into a European league with the likes of Ajax, Benfica etc. There is minimal potential for growth or improvement playing in Scotland and that is not going to change any time soon.
Quote from: Boycey on December 23, 2014, 11:56:19 AM
Sorry Lynchbhoy Celtic wouldn't touch the sides of the pull United or Liverpool for that matter have worldwide
(http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/03138/mumbai_3138019b.jpg)
Up to 30,000 people watched the United/Liverpool match in Mumbai a few weeks ago
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/manchester-united/11293593/Manchester-United-v-Liverpool-Tens-of-thousands-of-fans-watch-game-on-big-screen-in-Mumbai.html
107,000 watched United and Real in the US during the summer, no disrespect to Celtic put they're not in that league
India is in Asia ....
Hate to say it but these days the support is Man U
Younger fans are not supporting English teams - mostly Real Madrid and barca
Quote from: JimStynes on December 23, 2014, 12:12:04 PM
If celtic were in the premier league they would have the potential to have the same fan base as United and Liverpool. The bottom line is they need out of scotland, into english premier league or into a European league with the likes of Ajax, Benfica etc. There is minimal potential for growth or improvement playing in Scotland and that is not going to change any time soon.
+1
Or ever (never)
Don't know.Woukd you really prefer Celtic to become a U.S. or Arabian franchise like Liverpool,Man a Utd or Man City?
Quote from: T Fearon on December 23, 2014, 05:56:52 PM
Don't know.Woukd you really prefer Celtic to become a U.S. or Arabian franchise like Liverpool,Man a Utd or Man City?
Doesn't matter these days. the soul of the club is gone. Fans are now consumers. Most players don't give a monkeys, they still get paid no matter what and look to leave if better offers come their way.
Gone are the days of Paul McStay
This applies to soccer as a whole. It kinda mirrors wwf for authenticity. These guys wouldn't last a minute in gaa.
Quote from: rrhf on December 24, 2014, 08:46:02 AM
This applies to soccer as a whole. It kinda mirrors wwf for authenticity. These guys wouldn't last a minute in gaa.
Why would they want to while they're getting ridiculous amounts of money to play football.
(a wee dig in Stephen Hunt's direction I'd say)
Quote from: rrhf on December 24, 2014, 08:46:02 AM
This applies to soccer as a whole. It kinda mirrors wwf for authenticity. These guys wouldn't last a minute in gaa.
::)
Seeing a few bits and pieces on the twitter about the rangers managers secretary being made redundant after 42 years at i***x, redundancy only paid for 2 years.
when it suits sevco they soon forget about their "history".
Disgusting act considering the time of year and the fact mc coist can sit at home & cream £15k / week.
Then again the huns & disgusting do go hand in hand.
Quote from: The Subbie on December 25, 2014, 12:00:02 AM
Seeing a few bits and pieces on the twitter about the rangers managers secretary being made redundant after 42 years at i***x, redundancy only paid for 2 years.
when it suits sevco they soon forget about their "history".
Disgusting act considering the time of year and the fact mc coist can sit at home & cream £15k / week.
Then again the huns & disgusting do go hand in hand.
The more the rangers hilarious saga drags on the more I still have to pinch myself that the SFA actually had the balls to nail them. Now they could and should have been nailed quicker, harder and more often but the fact they were done in any meaningful sense was great
(http://hongkongrangers.files.wordpress.com/2012/02/ally-we-dont-do-walking-away.jpg)
Just a lot of gardening...
He can afford to get his Garden done on his reported 400,000 a year leave.
Hibs are a great price to beat New Rangers tomorrow. Generally available at 5/2.
Quote from: Lecale2 on December 26, 2014, 08:17:31 PM
Hibs are a great price to beat New Rangers tomorrow. Generally available at 5/2.
I hope you filled yer boots!
Quote from: deiseach on December 27, 2014, 02:02:10 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on December 26, 2014, 08:17:31 PM
Hibs are a great price to beat New Rangers tomorrow. Generally available at 5/2.
I hope you filled yer boots!
Was just about to post the same....
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B53hTbSCEAMGsjX.jpg)
(h/t (http://kerrydalestreet.co.uk/single/?p=13337675&t=9212707))
Quote from: The Subbie on December 25, 2014, 12:00:02 AM
Seeing a few bits and pieces on the twitter about the rangers managers secretary being made redundant after 42 years at i***x, redundancy only paid for 2 years.
when it suits sevco they soon forget about their "history".
Disgusting act considering the time of year and the fact mc coist can sit at home & cream £15k / week.
Then again the huns & disgusting do go hand in hand.
Feel a bit sorry for this poor fella
Poor Kenny McDowall ;D
He picked up the flaming bag of dog poo
Good odds for the spread today, I expect.
Quote from: deiseach on December 27, 2014, 02:02:10 PM
Quote from: Lecale2 on December 26, 2014, 08:17:31 PM
Hibs are a great price to beat New Rangers tomorrow. Generally available at 5/2.
I hope you filled yer boots!
Boots filled ! :)
No panic on Rangers just yet! They won't win the Championship title. But they only have to finish in the top 4 to get into the play offs for promotion. The champions which looks to be Hearts who will be automatically promoted to the Premiership and clubs in 2nd, 3rd and 4th enter two-legged play-offs. The winner of 4th v 3rd plays 2nd, with the winner of that tie up against the club finishing 11th in the Premiership which looks to be Ross County/St. Mirren.
Going to watch todays reverse fixture in Ibrox on Valentines Day (wife happy about that) as part of a Diversity in Sport course that im doing with Armagh Council. I wonder how many will be at it after todays result.
I see Kenny McDowall has just resigned
Seriously this has been going on for three years now with no sign of improvement
Quote from: T Fearon on January 19, 2015, 11:19:26 PM
Seriously this has been going on for three years now with no sign of improvement
Any other club would have been wound up long ago
[Any other club would have been wound up long ago]
It was wound up. Rangers FC is nae more. They just started a new club in the same ground and pretended it was the old one!
Rangers was taken over by cowboys who didn't give a hoot about the club, what it means to supporters or sustainability. This could happen to any professional football club . It might even happen to Man Utd under the Glazers.
Quote from: seafoid on January 20, 2015, 08:11:21 AM
Rangers was taken over by cowboys who didn't give a hoot about the club, what it means to supporters or sustainability. This could happen to any professional football club . It might even happen to Man Utd under the Glazers.
In most of the cases that I can think of where clubs went under and a phoenix arose from the ashes, the fans were the catalyst. There was no way that they were going to fall for another snake oil salesman. Supporters of Newco Rangers, on the other hand, were only too willing to take seriously the fantasies of an Arthur Daley-type with a Yorkshire accent, blithering on about not leaving until he heard Zadok the Priest ringing around Ibrox, talking of emails with the Dallas Cowboys that he will show you off camera, and turning the squaddie worship already inherent in the support up to 11.
What has happened to 'The Rangers' has no lessons for anyone else.
Quote from: Over the Bar on January 20, 2015, 12:23:02 AM
[Any other club would have been wound up long ago]
It was wound up. Rangers FC is nae more. They just started a new club in the same ground and pretended it was the old one!
maybe in the the company registration
but is the newco nothing to do with the oldco?
this vile collection that's trying to pass for a club should be finshed off and put out of its (our) misery.
Top 5 clubs in scotland separated by 8 points. Who need Rangers?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 20, 2015, 03:37:05 PM
Quote from: Over the Bar on January 20, 2015, 12:23:02 AM
[Any other club would have been wound up long ago]
It was wound up. Rangers FC is nae more. They just started a new club in the same ground and pretended it was the old one!
maybe in the the company registration
but is the newco nothing to do with the oldco?
this vile collection that's trying to pass for a club should be finshed off and put out of its (our) misery.
Isn't it funny how people see their own favoured club as something with a unique culture, sacred places, indellible memories and a special status that can't be reduced to mere legal entity, and yet when it comes to rival clubs they can be reduced to documents lodged in Companies House and sets of property deeds.
Rangers were the ugly beast that got their comeuppance and I've no sympathy for them however if the company now operating Celtic FC were liquidated don't even pretend that you would accept that the new club is completely distinct and separate from the history, traditions and culture of the old club.
That was funny when the whole Sevco thing first started but has become a little tiresome, IMO.
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 20, 2015, 03:51:49 PM
Isn't it funny how people see their own favoured club as something with a unique culture, sacred places, indellible memories and a special status that can't be reduced to mere legal entity, and yet when it comes to rival clubs they can be reduced to documents lodged in Companies House and sets of property deeds.
Rangers were the ugly beast that got their comeuppance and I've no sympathy for them however if the company now operating Celtic FC were liquidated don't even pretend that you would accept that the new club is completely distinct and separate from the history, traditions and culture of the old club.
That was funny when the whole Sevco thing first started but has become a little tiresome, IMO.
I'm sure you are right that if the roles were reversed Celtic fans would be claiming the club was different to the company yadda yadda yadda. But that isn't where we are, and while obviously Sevco are where all Rangers fans switched their allegiances, that doesn't make it anything other than a fiction that it is the same club.
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 20, 2015, 03:51:49 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 20, 2015, 03:37:05 PM
Quote from: Over the Bar on January 20, 2015, 12:23:02 AM
[Any other club would have been wound up long ago]
It was wound up. Rangers FC is nae more. They just started a new club in the same ground and pretended it was the old one!
maybe in the the company registration
but is the newco nothing to do with the oldco?
this vile collection that's trying to pass for a club should be finshed off and put out of its (our) misery.
Isn't it funny how people see their own favoured club as something with a unique culture, sacred places, indellible memories and a special status that can't be reduced to mere legal entity, and yet when it comes to rival clubs they can be reduced to documents lodged in Companies House and sets of property deeds.
Rangers were the ugly beast that got their comeuppance and I've no sympathy for them however if the company now operating Celtic FC were liquidated don't even pretend that you would accept that the new club is completely distinct and separate from the history, traditions and culture of the old club.
That was funny when the whole Sevco thing first started but has become a little tiresome, IMO.
I actually would
rules are rules and im quite pedantic
so never assume anything about anybody !!
that's your opinion, no one elses!!
it looked at one point when Celtic would be gone. there was going to be no alternative.
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 20, 2015, 03:51:49 PM
Isn't it funny how people see their own favoured club as something with a unique culture, sacred places, indellible memories and a special status that can't be reduced to mere legal entity, and yet when it comes to rival clubs they can be reduced to documents lodged in Companies House and sets of property deeds.
Rangers were the ugly beast that got their comeuppance and I've no sympathy for them however if the company now operating Celtic FC were liquidated don't even pretend that you would accept that the new club is completely distinct and separate from the history, traditions and culture of the old club.
That was funny when the whole Sevco thing first started but has become a little tiresome, IMO.
I'm sure cities like Manchester will miss those traditions ;)
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/00817/SNA0312A_682_817103a.jpg)
Quote from: foxcommander on January 20, 2015, 04:42:05 PM
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 20, 2015, 03:51:49 PM
Isn't it funny how people see their own favoured club as something with a unique culture, sacred places, indelible memories and a special status that can't be reduced to mere legal entity, and yet when it comes to rival clubs they can be reduced to documents lodged in Companies House and sets of property deeds.
Rangers were the ugly beast that got their comeuppance and I've no sympathy for them however if the company now operating Celtic FC were liquidated don't even pretend that you would accept that the new club is completely distinct and separate from the history, traditions and culture of the old club.
That was funny when the whole Sevco thing first started but has become a little tiresome, IMO.
I'm sure cities like Manchester will miss those traditions ;)
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/00817/SNA0312A_682_817103a.jpg)
Can we be serious for a second. Not that I don't have a sense of humour :P but just for a second to consider this.
The "new" Rangers play at Ibrox, train at Murray Park, they have a predominantly blue kit with white togs, they have the same fans, the badge - if not identical - is very similar to the old rangers badge, and they worship the same men that supporters of the "old" club did. What's the difference then between the "old" club and the "new" club then?
Don't be giving me companies, shareholders and directors. Sure SH's and Directors change all the time and a club can change holding company as and when it suits them. No one's going to tell me that Liverpool are a distinct and separate football club from the one that existed under Kop Holdings Limited under Hicks and Gillett. No sane person would argue that, because it's BS.
What about this Old Firm Derby coming up - first time these two clubs have ever met or first time in a few seasons? Give us a break.
And they still have 5 stars on their crest signifying that they've won over 50 titles
Great headline in last Thursdays Daily Record.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B7bK84_CUAAiClY.jpg)
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 20, 2015, 10:47:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 20, 2015, 04:42:05 PM
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 20, 2015, 03:51:49 PM
Isn't it funny how people see their own favoured club as something with a unique culture, sacred places, indelible memories and a special status that can't be reduced to mere legal entity, and yet when it comes to rival clubs they can be reduced to documents lodged in Companies House and sets of property deeds.
Rangers were the ugly beast that got their comeuppance and I've no sympathy for them however if the company now operating Celtic FC were liquidated don't even pretend that you would accept that the new club is completely distinct and separate from the history, traditions and culture of the old club.
That was funny when the whole Sevco thing first started but has become a little tiresome, IMO.
I'm sure cities like Manchester will miss those traditions ;)
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/00817/SNA0312A_682_817103a.jpg)
Can we be serious for a second. Not that I don't have a sense of humour :P but just for a second to consider this.
The "new" Rangers play at Ibrox, train at Murray Park, they have a predominantly blue kit with white togs, they have the same fans, the badge - if not identical - is very similar to the old rangers badge, and they worship the same men that supporters of the "old" club did. What's the difference then between the "old" club and the "new" club then?
Don't be giving me companies, shareholders and directors. Sure SH's and Directors change all the time and a club can change holding company as and when it suits them. No one's going to tell me that Liverpool are a distinct and separate football club from the one that existed under Kop Holdings Limited under Hicks and Gillett. No sane person would argue that, because it's BS.
What about this Old Firm Derby coming up - first time these two clubs have ever met or first time in a few seasons? Give us a break.
Do you have a point to make with these posts of yours?
Or is your mission to attempt to indelibly links Celtic with rangers ( old or new or whatever)
If it is
You are failing miserably
If it isn't
Then your point isn't clear
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 20, 2015, 10:47:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 20, 2015, 04:42:05 PM
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 20, 2015, 03:51:49 PM
Isn't it funny how people see their own favoured club as something with a unique culture, sacred places, indelible memories and a special status that can't be reduced to mere legal entity, and yet when it comes to rival clubs they can be reduced to documents lodged in Companies House and sets of property deeds.
Rangers were the ugly beast that got their comeuppance and I've no sympathy for them however if the company now operating Celtic FC were liquidated don't even pretend that you would accept that the new club is completely distinct and separate from the history, traditions and culture of the old club.
That was funny when the whole Sevco thing first started but has become a little tiresome, IMO.
I'm sure cities like Manchester will miss those traditions ;)
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/00817/SNA0312A_682_817103a.jpg)
Can we be serious for a second. Not that I don't have a sense of humour :P but just for a second to consider this.
The "new" Rangers play at Ibrox, train at Murray Park, they have a predominantly blue kit with white togs, they have the same fans, the badge - if not identical - is very similar to the old rangers badge, and they worship the same men that supporters of the "old" club did. What's the difference then between the "old" club and the "new" club then?
Don't be giving me companies, shareholders and directors. Sure SH's and Directors change all the time and a club can change holding company as and when it suits them. No one's going to tell me that Liverpool are a distinct and separate football club from the one that existed under Kop Holdings Limited under Hicks and Gillett. No sane person would argue that, because it's BS.
What about this Old Firm Derby coming up - first time these two clubs have ever met or first time in a few seasons? Give us a break.
All very well but the one thing you are missing is that it was the club which was liquidated, not a holding company. So the club did not simply transfer holding companies, a new company and a new club were both formed in order to continue milking the blue pound.
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 20, 2015, 10:47:57 PM
Can we be serious for a second. Not that I don't have a sense of humour :P but just for a second to consider this.
The "new" Rangers play at Ibrox, train at Murray Park, they have a predominantly blue kit with white togs, they have the same fans, the badge - if not identical - is very similar to the old rangers badge, and they worship the same men that supporters of the "old" club did. What's the difference then between the "old" club and the "new" club then?
Don't be giving me companies, shareholders and directors. Sure SH's and Directors change all the time and a club can change holding company as and when it suits them. No one's going to tell me that Liverpool are a distinct and separate football club from the one that existed under Kop Holdings Limited under Hicks and Gillett. No sane person would argue that, because it's BS.
What about this Old Firm Derby coming up - first time these two clubs have ever met or first time in a few seasons? Give us a break.
I am serious about this (I'm not a Celtic fan). If it's the same club and all that happened was the owners changed as happened with Liverpool - that isn't what happened with Rangers, the company was liquidated, but let's put that aside for a moment - then why did the club that finished 2nd in the top tier in Scottish football in 2012 start the following season in the fourth tier? If you can explain that in a football context then I will accept that it is the same club. Otherwise, the logical conclusion to draw is that the old club ceased to exist and a new club emerged in the fourth tier. It may be draped in all the finery of the old club, and that does matter. But it is still a new club.
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 09:27:02 AM
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 20, 2015, 10:47:57 PM
Can we be serious for a second. Not that I don't have a sense of humour :P but just for a second to consider this.
The "new" Rangers play at Ibrox, train at Murray Park, they have a predominantly blue kit with white togs, they have the same fans, the badge - if not identical - is very similar to the old rangers badge, and they worship the same men that supporters of the "old" club did. What's the difference then between the "old" club and the "new" club then?
Don't be giving me companies, shareholders and directors. Sure SH's and Directors change all the time and a club can change holding company as and when it suits them. No one's going to tell me that Liverpool are a distinct and separate football club from the one that existed under Kop Holdings Limited under Hicks and Gillett. No sane person would argue that, because it's BS.
What about this Old Firm Derby coming up - first time these two clubs have ever met or first time in a few seasons? Give us a break.
I am serious about this (I'm not a Celtic fan). If it's the same club and all that happened was the owners changed as happened with Liverpool - that isn't what happened with Rangers, the company was liquidated, but let's put that aside for a moment - then why did the club that finished 2nd in the top tier in Scottish football in 2012 start the following season in the fourth tier? If you can explain that in a football context then I will accept that it is the same club. Otherwise, the logical conclusion to draw is that the old club ceased to exist and a new club emerged in the fourth tier. It may be draped in all the finery of the old club, and that does matter. But it is still a new club.
New stick, same shit.
In American sport, franchises relocate relatively frequently and often a new or expansion franchise arises in the city the original franchise left - the Browns and the Ravens for example in the NFL or the Bobcats/Hornets and Pelicans in the NBA. The leagues can "award" the history and legacy of the original franchise to the new one. What is the SFA's view of Rangers? Does it view them as the 53 times winners or a start up?
Quote from: gallsman on January 21, 2015, 09:36:30 AM
In American sport, franchises relocate relatively frequently and often a new or expansion franchise arises in the city the original franchise left - the Browns and the Ravens for example in the NFL or the Bobcats/Hornets and Pelicans in the NBA. The leagues can "award" the history and legacy of the original franchise to the new one. What is the SFA's view of Rangers? Does it view them as the 53 times winners or a start up?
As far as I know, the SFA have never made any direct comment on the status of Sevco. The SPFL CEO has recently stated they are the same club using the 'holding company changed, club didn't' argument. He was not asked, so did not answer, the question I have posed.
Quote from: Ulick on January 21, 2015, 08:00:10 AM
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 20, 2015, 10:47:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 20, 2015, 04:42:05 PM
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 20, 2015, 03:51:49 PM
Isn't it funny how people see their own favoured club as something with a unique culture, sacred places, indelible memories and a special status that can't be reduced to mere legal entity, and yet when it comes to rival clubs they can be reduced to documents lodged in Companies House and sets of property deeds.
Rangers were the ugly beast that got their comeuppance and I've no sympathy for them however if the company now operating Celtic FC were liquidated don't even pretend that you would accept that the new club is completely distinct and separate from the history, traditions and culture of the old club.
That was funny when the whole Sevco thing first started but has become a little tiresome, IMO.
I'm sure cities like Manchester will miss those traditions ;)
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/00817/SNA0312A_682_817103a.jpg)
Can we be serious for a second. Not that I don't have a sense of humour :P but just for a second to consider this.
The "new" Rangers play at Ibrox, train at Murray Park, they have a predominantly blue kit with white togs, they have the same fans, the badge - if not identical - is very similar to the old rangers badge, and they worship the same men that supporters of the "old" club did. What's the difference then between the "old" club and the "new" club then?
Don't be giving me companies, shareholders and directors. Sure SH's and Directors change all the time and a club can change holding company as and when it suits them. No one's going to tell me that Liverpool are a distinct and separate football club from the one that existed under Kop Holdings Limited under Hicks and Gillett. No sane person would argue that, because it's BS.
What about this Old Firm Derby coming up - first time these two clubs have ever met or first time in a few seasons? Give us a break.
All very well but the one thing you are missing is that it was the club which was liquidated, not a holding company. So the club did not simply transfer holding companies, a new company and a new club were both formed in order to continue milking the blue pound.
You cannot liquidate a club. You can liquidate a company.
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 09:27:02 AM
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 20, 2015, 10:47:57 PM
Can we be serious for a second. Not that I don't have a sense of humour :P but just for a second to consider this.
The "new" Rangers play at Ibrox, train at Murray Park, they have a predominantly blue kit with white togs, they have the same fans, the badge - if not identical - is very similar to the old rangers badge, and they worship the same men that supporters of the "old" club did. What's the difference then between the "old" club and the "new" club then?
Don't be giving me companies, shareholders and directors. Sure SH's and Directors change all the time and a club can change holding company as and when it suits them. No one's going to tell me that Liverpool are a distinct and separate football club from the one that existed under Kop Holdings Limited under Hicks and Gillett. No sane person would argue that, because it's BS.
What about this Old Firm Derby coming up - first time these two clubs have ever met or first time in a few seasons? Give us a break.
I am serious about this (I'm not a Celtic fan). If it's the same club and all that happened was the owners changed as happened with Liverpool - that isn't what happened with Rangers, the company was liquidated, but let's put that aside for a moment - then why did the club that finished 2nd in the top tier in Scottish football in 2012 start the following season in the fourth tier? If you can explain that in a football context then I will accept that it is the same club. Otherwise, the logical conclusion to draw is that the old club ceased to exist and a new club emerged in the fourth tier. It may be draped in all the finery of the old club, and that does matter. But it is still a new club.
I accept your sincerity.
My take on that is that the club had to be punished and be seen to be punished, particularly given that Scottish clubs so often run into financial difficulties. If Rangers had simply been allowed to get back into the SPL then it would set an awful precedent and leave the SFA very vulnerable to legal challenges by other clubs who go under. If I remember correctly there was a vote on this and the majority of SFA members voted for Rangers to start again in Division 4. I am of course open to correction on this. Juventus were sent packing to the 4th Division a few years ago (although I accept the scenarios are different - merely making the point that Rangers had to be punished).
I note that you didn't address the Old Firm question.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 21, 2015, 12:17:48 AM
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 20, 2015, 10:47:57 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on January 20, 2015, 04:42:05 PM
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 20, 2015, 03:51:49 PM
Isn't it funny how people see their own favoured club as something with a unique culture, sacred places, indelible memories and a special status that can't be reduced to mere legal entity, and yet when it comes to rival clubs they can be reduced to documents lodged in Companies House and sets of property deeds.
Rangers were the ugly beast that got their comeuppance and I've no sympathy for them however if the company now operating Celtic FC were liquidated don't even pretend that you would accept that the new club is completely distinct and separate from the history, traditions and culture of the old club.
That was funny when the whole Sevco thing first started but has become a little tiresome, IMO.
I'm sure cities like Manchester will miss those traditions ;)
(http://img.thesun.co.uk/aidemitlum/archive/00817/SNA0312A_682_817103a.jpg)
Can we be serious for a second. Not that I don't have a sense of humour :P but just for a second to consider this.
The "new" Rangers play at Ibrox, train at Murray Park, they have a predominantly blue kit with white togs, they have the same fans, the badge - if not identical - is very similar to the old rangers badge, and they worship the same men that supporters of the "old" club did. What's the difference then between the "old" club and the "new" club then?
Don't be giving me companies, shareholders and directors. Sure SH's and Directors change all the time and a club can change holding company as and when it suits them. No one's going to tell me that Liverpool are a distinct and separate football club from the one that existed under Kop Holdings Limited under Hicks and Gillett. No sane person would argue that, because it's BS.
What about this Old Firm Derby coming up - first time these two clubs have ever met or first time in a few seasons? Give us a break.
Do you have a point to make with these posts of yours?
Or is your mission to attempt to indelibly links Celtic with rangers ( old or new or whatever)
If it is
You are failing miserably
If it isn't
Then your point isn't clear
Not sure that patronising and condescending comment merits a response, but I'll accede in this instance.
Point - if my point here isn't already clear to you then that's a personal issue. Others seem to have taken the debate on knowing full well what my point is and without accusing me of having an agenda.
Mission? I have no agenda here. I'm merely pointing out that the whole Sevco joke is a little jaded and a little disingenuous. I have no deliberate intention of linking everything Celtic does with Rangers. I was asking people if the situation was reversed would you be so hung up on legalities and clinical on such issues?
Seriously Lynchboy - what's your take on the game coming up against Rangers? Completely new club and Celtic have had no previous games or dealings with them at all? I am genuinely interested in your answer.
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 21, 2015, 02:26:55 PM
My take on that is that the club had to be punished and be seen to be punished, particularly given that Scottish clubs so often run into financial difficulties. If Rangers had simply been allowed to get back into the SPL then it would set an awful precedent and leave the SFA very vulnerable to legal challenges by other clubs who go under. If I remember correctly there was a vote on this and the majority of SFA members voted for Rangers to start again in Division 4. I am of course open to correction on this. Juventus were sent packing to the 4th Division a few years ago (although I accept the scenarios are different - merely making the point that Rangers had to be punished).
You remember incorrectly. The vote was on whether to allow the new company accept the SPL share of the old company. Think about it. Rangers were given a vote on whether to transfer themselves to Rangers? How is that meant to work? This was a football matter. CLUBS voting, not companies. There's a supreme irony in seeing Rangers supporters invoke the miracle of bi-location so often invoked by Roman Catholic-types in support of the idea of Oldco and Newco being one and the same.
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 21, 2015, 02:26:55 PM
I note that you didn't address the Old Firm question.
First time these two clubs have ever met. I would have thought it was self-evident from my stated opinion on the matter.
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 09:27:02 AMthen why did the club that finished 2nd in the top tier in Scottish football in 2012 start the following season in the fourth tier? If you can explain that in a football context then I will accept that it is the same club. Otherwise, the logical conclusion to draw is that the old club ceased to exist and a new club emerged in the fourth tier. It may be draped in all the finery of the old club, and that does matter. But it is still a new club.
There are a number of rules about football competitions, some regarding the playing of the games, some about the organization of the competition and some about the business side of the teams. Rangers broke the business rules very seriously and were punished by being expelled from the competition they were in. They were readmitted to a lower level of the competition with the same manager and many of the same players, the same fans and playing at the same stadium with the same name and same blue white and red colour scheme for their strip.
They are the same club.
Quote from: dec on January 21, 2015, 02:55:26 PM
There are a number of rules about football competitions, some regarding the playing of the games, some about the organization of the competition and some about the business side of the teams. Rangers broke the business rules very seriously and were punished by being expelled from the competition they were in. They were readmitted to a lower level of the competition with the same manager and many of the same players, the same fans and playing at the same stadium with the same name and same blue white and red colour scheme for their strip.
They are the same club.
I direct you to my reply above. Rangers were not demoted or expelled or anything like that. They went out of existence quite independently of any punishment they may have received from the SFA or SPL. And if they were 'readmitted', how do you explain Oldco getting to vote on Newco's application to the SPL?
A bit of an existential question I suppose, but what is a 'Club'? If you take the view that the club is an ideal, or concept, made up of the fans, the players, the history, the traditions and the identity then I think any incarnation of 'Rangers' is the same club.
If your contention is that the club is the legal entity, then all new incarnations are evidently several different clubs.
My own take on it is that the legal entity is simply a vehicle for the money to flow in and out, and the club, the essence of the club, is held in the fanbase, the colours, the history and the traditions. I think that persists even as legal entities come and go.
People are free to think what they like. St Pat's still claim they won the 2001/2 League of Ireland (http://www.stpatsfc.com/honours.php) because they accumulated more points on the pitch than Shelbourne, and who is to say they are wrong? Well, I am, because they had 15 points deducted for fielding an ineligible player. Rangers fans can claim that the club that plays out of Ibrox is exactly the same club as the one founded in 1872. They would be wrong, because ownership did not change as it might have done on previous occasions or in other scenarios. Once liquidation had taken place, there was nothing left to own.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 03:02:14 PM
A bit of an existential question I suppose, but what is a 'Club'? If you take the view that the club is an ideal, or concept, made up of the fans, the players, the history, the traditions and the identity then I think any incarnation of 'Rangers' is the same club.
If your contention is that the club is the legal entity, then all new incarnations are evidently several different clubs.
My own take on it is that the legal entity is simply a vehicle for the money to flow in and out, and the club, the essence of the club, is held in the fanbase, the colours, the history and the traditions. I think that persists even as legal entities come and go.
That is the point I'm getting at. A club is a collective, a movement and ultimately it's the fans who decide what that is. It cannot be confined to legal documents. Company structure, directors and shareholders change all the time - all of which is no consequence to the club..
How does everyone here define their own GAA club? Do people say it's a club, a trust, a joint venture? Do we have any incorporated GAA clubs (is that even allowed)?
All of which leads me to believe that it is disingenuous to say that Celtic have played their last game against Rangers and will never play them again. I'd take a guess that this game will attract a big crowd. Probably a few banners in the crowd or taunts referring to previous experiences between themselves. All of which doesn't make sense, giving that they're playing a three year old club from the second tier in the league cup, with whom they have no previous history.
But that's not really the case.
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 03:01:27 PM
Quote from: dec on January 21, 2015, 02:55:26 PM
There are a number of rules about football competitions, some regarding the playing of the games, some about the organization of the competition and some about the business side of the teams. Rangers broke the business rules very seriously and were punished by being expelled from the competition they were in. They were readmitted to a lower level of the competition with the same manager and many of the same players, the same fans and playing at the same stadium with the same name and same blue white and red colour scheme for their strip.
They are the same club.
I direct you to my reply above. Rangers were not demoted or expelled or anything like that. They went out of existence quite independently of any punishment they may have received from the SFA or SPL. And if they were 'readmitted', how do you explain Oldco getting to vote on Newco's application to the SPL?
Obviously my argument here is that they didn't go 'out of existence'. The company in question was liquidated. Therefore Rangers we're readmitted having been taken over by a new corporate structure.
As for Oldco voting for the Newco - they're both from the one club and therefore have the same interests. They weren't voting for something completely independent of themselves.
Company and club is not a synonymous term.
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 03:18:15 PM
People are free to think what they like. St Pat's still claim they won the 2001/2 League of Ireland (http://www.stpatsfc.com/honours.php) because they accumulated more points on the pitch than Shelbourne, and who is to say they are wrong? Well, I am, because they had 15 points deducted for fielding an ineligible player. Rangers fans can claim that the club that plays out of Ibrox is exactly the same club as the one founded in 1872. They would be wrong, because ownership did not change as it might have done on previous occasions or in other scenarios. Once liquidation had taken place, there was nothing left to own.
If Liverpool FC went bust in the morning, but at the start of next season a new club, wearing red, called Liverpool AFC was founded and for whatever reason allowed enter the EPL. If this entity had YNWA as the anthem, playing in front of the Kop at Anfield, and fielding the likes of Henderson, Sterling and Sturridge, would you consider them 'Liverpool', or would you owe them no allegience and consider them a completely new thing altogether, with no more pull on your affections, or claim to the history of Liverpool FC, than any other club in the Merseyside area, or anywhere else?
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 03:18:15 PM
People are free to think what they like. St Pat's still claim they won the 2001/2 League of Ireland (http://www.stpatsfc.com/honours.php) because they accumulated more points on the pitch than Shelbourne, and who is to say they are wrong? Well, I am, because they had 15 points deducted for fielding an ineligible player. Rangers fans can claim that the club that plays out of Ibrox is exactly the same club as the one founded in 1872. They would be wrong, because ownership did not change as it might have done on previous occasions or in other scenarios. Once liquidation had taken place, there was nothing left to own.
See, I think this is factually wrong. Just because a company is in liquidation doesn't mean that there is nothing there to own. You aren't suggesting that the liquidated company - with a decent stadium and training facility - didn't have any assets?
I have difficulty with your logic here as well. If a club changes custodians through a sale (the primary interest of a purchasor being the assets) then that is ok, but if a liquidator is appointed to a company to transfer assets, then that's different. Why is it different?
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 21, 2015, 02:26:55 PM
Not sure that patronising and condescending comment merits a response, but I'll accede in this instance.
Point - if my point here isn't already clear to you then that's a personal issue. Others seem to have taken the debate on knowing full well what my point is and without accusing me of having an agenda.
Mission? I have no agenda here. I'm merely pointing out that the whole Sevco joke is a little jaded and a little disingenuous. I have no deliberate intention of linking everything Celtic does with Rangers. I was asking people if the situation was reversed would you be so hung up on legalities and clinical on such issues?
Seriously Lynchboy - what's your take on the game coming up against Rangers? Completely new club and Celtic have had no previous games or dealings with them at all? I am genuinely interested in your answer.
you original point wasn't clear.
it was not apparent whether you believed rangers were no longer in existence
or rangers were the same club as before
you seemed to be trying to tie in Celtic to rangers under the 'old firm' thing which many Celtic fans for over a decade have been trying to distance themselves from , as Celtic are not a 'green' version of rangers.
the supporters and their behaviour can demonstrate that straight away.
the behaviour of the clubs commercial operations also demonstrate that.
your comments
"Isn't it funny how people see their own favoured club as something with a unique culture, sacred places, indellible memories and a special status that can't be reduced to mere legal entity, and yet when it comes to rival clubs they can be reduced to documents lodged in Companies House and sets of property deeds."
are very wide of the mark to say the least.
so what were you saying.
others commented but made statements rather than answers imo
anyhow
I actually posed the question to you asking what your point was. it was not intended to be patronising or condescending.
I genuinely was unclear what you were trying to say.
my response to your question is
it might be a 'new' rangers commercially in the company registrations office - but they still have the same fans, colours and as far as I know , there has been no official comment on stripping rangers as they were, of their titles won in the 'questionable dozen years of financial irregularity ' or setting their title count back to zero- by the sfa or whatever they are called these days.
that's because they want this to blow over and people will de facto assume its the same rangers and have the same titles and so on, as they are the establishment club and t would be easier (and more palatable) for them in the long run.
so while I detest that people call it the old firm - let alone new firm (theres no fecking firm at all) - to me I still see rangers.
yes they shouldn't exist, and the rules have been bent out of shape. but I cant see how it isn't rangers.
I would have loved the club to be wound up and get rid of their naked and unabated sectarianism.
but these low lifes (they aren't all like this btw) will find some other anti social aggressive sectarian outlet instead and I don't think Scottish society want that either.
while many clubs miss rangers for the money element, many fans don't miss the aggro and hassle (from what im told by Dundee, Dundee utd, hibs and Aberdeen fans for example).
imo
Why do any of you even care?
AZ, you should recall the trauma of Liverpool nearly going bust a few years back, and no one suggested a scenario whereby it might be easier to just let it happen, get back into EPL 'for whatever reason' - too big to fail? - and carry on as if nothing had happened. This is because it's a nonsense scenario. In fact, Liverpool are the classic example of why a club and company are, synonymous (http://www.liverpoolfc.com/history/timeline/1892-1917/liverpool-football-club-is-formed):
QuoteLiverpool F.C. was formed on the 15th of March 1892. It was at John Houlding's house in Anfield Road that he and his closest friends left from Everton FC, formed a new club. William E. Barclay, a great football enthusiast, strongly suggested that they should go on with a new name: Liverpool.
However, it was not until 3rd June that the name Liverpool Football Club and Athletic Grounds Ltd was formally recognised by the Board of Trade, and the club could start to make history.
Barclay had been the first secretary at Everton when they became a league club in 1888, and so in turn became the first secretary at Liverpool. Bearing in mind Barclay's suggestion, it was surprising that on 26th of January 1892 Houlding tried to form a 'new' Everton: The "Everton Football Club and Athletic Grounds Company plc" was registered in London on that date and as the 'old' Everton club was not registered as a plc Houlding had hoped to perform a weird "takeover" of Everton; stealing the name of the club in a legal way. But a meeting at the Football Council on 4th of February 1892 ruled that it could not approve membership of a new club with the same name as an existing member!
If we were to take the idea that a club was about some intangible 'essence', then we must accept the possibility that FC United of Manchester might one day have more fans than Manchester United FC and would therefore become Manchester United FC, right?
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 21, 2015, 03:33:16 PM
See, I think this is factually wrong. Just because a company is in liquidation doesn't mean that there is nothing there to own. You aren't suggesting that the liquidated company - with a decent stadium and training facility - didn't have any assets?
I have difficulty with your logic here as well. If a club changes custodians through a sale (the primary interest of a purchasor being the assets) then that is ok, but if a liquidator is appointed to a company to transfer assets, then that's different. Why is it different?
You've pretty much answered your own question there. They are different, because one involves the sale of the company including the assets, and the other involves just selling the assets.
My point is that the club, and the legal entity are two different things. Of course I know that technically they are not. But I have an old fashioned belief that the club is what those who support it say it is. If Liverpool Football Club PLC goes bust, and Liverpool AFC PLC is founded, I believe the supporters would transfer en-masse to Liverpool AFC, and that would become de-facto 'Liverpool'. I also believe opposing fans would recognise it as Liverpool, and the history would transfer with it. The colours would still be the same etc.
Your scenario of Everton and Liverpool is also not the same, as there is a clear line of delineation where Liverpool, with their own identity, existed and before they existed. Also, as Everton continued to exist, obviously John Houlding's new club could not be the same.
Your scenario of AFC Manchester and Manchester United cannot be held to be the same, as there are 2 clubs. They obviously cannot be one and the same.
Perhaps a more accurate scenario for consideration is this.
Is the club now playing at the Emirates stadium the same club as that which was once called Woolwich Arsenal?
Is the club now playing at Old Trafford the same club as that which was formerly Newton Heath?
QuoteIn January 1902, with debts of £2,670 – equivalent to £250,000 in 2015[nb 1] – the club was served with a winding-up order.[17] Captain Harry Stafford found four local businessmen, including John Henry Davies (who became club president), each willing to invest £500 in return for a direct interest in running the club and who subsequently changed the name;[18] on 24 April 1902, Manchester United was officially born
I submit they are considered the same club for historical and identity purposes, regardless of what the companies register says.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 03:53:04 PM
My point is that the club, and the legal entity are two different things. Of course I know that technically they are not. But I have an old fashioned belief that the club is what those who support it. If Liverpool Football Club PLC goes bust, and Liverpool AFC PLC is founded, I believe the supporters would transfer en-masse to Liverpool AFC, and that would become de-facto 'Liverpool'. I also believe opposing fans would recognise it as Liverpool, and the history would transfer with it. The colours would still be the same etc.
Your scenario of Everton and Liverpool is also not the same, as there is a clear line of delineation where Liverpool, with their own identity, existed and before they existed. Also, as Everton continued to exist, obviously John Houlding's new club could not be the same.
Your scenario of AFC Manchester and Manchester United cannot be held to be the same, as there are 2 clubs. They obviously cannot be one and the same.
Perhaps a more accurate scenario for consideration is this.
Is the club now playing at the Emirates stadium the same club as that which was once called Woolwich Arsenal?
Is the club now playing at Old Trafford the same club as that which was formerly Newton Heath?
QuoteIn January 1902, with debts of £2,670 – equivalent to £250,000 in 2015[nb 1] – the club was served with a winding-up order.[17] Captain Harry Stafford found four local businessmen, including John Henry Davies (who became club president), each willing to invest £500 in return for a direct interest in running the club and who subsequently changed the name;[18] on 24 April 1902, Manchester United was officially born
I submit they are considered the same club for historical and identity purposes, regardless of what the companies register says.
Course it is. The really productive green and gold protests Artest to that.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 21, 2015, 03:39:58 PM
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 21, 2015, 02:26:55 PM
Not sure that patronising and condescending comment merits a response, but I'll accede in this instance.
Point - if my point here isn't already clear to you then that's a personal issue. Others seem to have taken the debate on knowing full well what my point is and without accusing me of having an agenda.
Mission? I have no agenda here. I'm merely pointing out that the whole Sevco joke is a little jaded and a little disingenuous. I have no deliberate intention of linking everything Celtic does with Rangers. I was asking people if the situation was reversed would you be so hung up on legalities and clinical on such issues?
Seriously Lynchboy - what's your take on the game coming up against Rangers? Completely new club and Celtic have had no previous games or dealings with them at all? I am genuinely interested in your answer.
you original point wasn't clear.
it was not apparent whether you believed rangers were no longer in existence
or rangers were the same club as before
you seemed to be trying to tie in Celtic to rangers under the 'old firm' thing which many Celtic fans for over a decade have been trying to distance themselves from , as Celtic are not a 'green' version of rangers.
the supporters and their behaviour can demonstrate that straight away.
the behaviour of the clubs commercial operations also demonstrate that.
your comments
"Isn't it funny how people see their own favoured club as something with a unique culture, sacred places, indellible memories and a special status that can't be reduced to mere legal entity, and yet when it comes to rival clubs they can be reduced to documents lodged in Companies House and sets of property deeds."
are very wide of the mark to say the least.
so what were you saying.
others commented but made statements rather than answers imo
anyhow
I actually posed the question to you asking what your point was. it was not intended to be patronising or condescending.
I genuinely was unclear what you were trying to say.
my response to your question is
it might be a 'new' rangers commercially in the company registrations office - but they still have the same fans, colours and as far as I know , there has been no official comment on stripping rangers as they were, of their titles won in the 'questionable dozen years of financial irregularity ' or setting their title count back to zero- by the sfa or whatever they are called these days.
that's because they want this to blow over and people will de facto assume its the same rangers and have the same titles and so on, as they are the establishment club and t would be easier (and more palatable) for them in the long run.
so while I detest that people call it the old firm - let alone new firm (theres no fecking firm at all) - to me I still see rangers.
yes they shouldn't exist, and the rules have been bent out of shape. but I cant see how it isn't rangers.
I would have loved the club to be wound up and get rid of their naked and unabated sectarianism.
but these low lifes (they aren't all like this btw) will find some other anti social aggressive sectarian outlet instead and I don't think Scottish society want that either.
while many clubs miss rangers for the money element, many fans don't miss the aggro and hassle (from what im told by Dundee, Dundee utd, hibs and Aberdeen fans for example).
imo
Christ, right. Start at the top I suppose.
I wasn't trying to tie Celtic in with them. I wasn't even
talking about Celtic. I did use them as a comparitor to prove a point but if I had been talking about, let's say, United and Liverpool, I don't think the fans from the other side would have gotten so defensive and accused me of dragging their favoured club into this. I think most reasonable people would see this.
My point couldn't have been more clear that I see Rangers are the same club as before. I used comedic irony to ask questions that a fair and honest answer would expose the hypocrisy of the situation.
At least you have acknowledged that it is the same Rangers, and for that you deserve some credit.
In summation I go back to my previous comment - football clubs and companies are not synonymous terms and it's idle to pretend that they are.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 03:53:04 PM
My point is that the club, and the legal entity are two different things. Of course I know that technically they are not. But I have an old fashioned belief that the club is what those who support it. If Liverpool Football Club PLC goes bust, and Liverpool AFC PLC is founded, I believe the supporters would transfer en-masse to Liverpool AFC, and that would become de-facto 'Liverpool'. I also believe opposing fans would recognise it as Liverpool, and the history would transfer with it. The colours would still be the same etc.
Your scenario of Everton and Liverpool is also not the same, as there is a clear line of delineation where Liverpool, with their own identity, existed and before they existed. Also, as Everton continued to exist, obviously John Houlding's new club could not be the same.
Your scenario of AFC Manchester and Manchester United cannot be held to be the same, as there are 2 clubs. They obviously cannot be one and the same.
Perhaps a more accurate scenario for consideration is this.
Is the club now playing at the Emirates stadium the same club as that which was once called Woolwich Arsenal?
Is the club now playing at Old Trafford the same club as that which was formerly Newton Heath?
QuoteIn January 1902, with debts of £2,670 – equivalent to £250,000 in 2015[nb 1] – the club was served with a winding-up order.[17] Captain Harry Stafford found four local businessmen, including John Henry Davies (who became club president), each willing to invest £500 in return for a direct interest in running the club and who subsequently changed the name;[18] on 24 April 1902, Manchester United was officially born
I submit they are considered the same club for historical and identity purposes, regardless of what the companies register says.
But they are not different! You say you have an "old fashioned belief that the club is what those who support it", which means you have to accept the FC United/Man Utd scenario whereby if enough people switch allegiances then the new club takes over the inheritance of the old club. It is precisely because there is no distinction between the club and the company that this kind of nonsense is not indulged.
(http://www.quickmeme.com/img/62/62f538b129e13afc6c7d9b9278b63f63f4c91e1f8fd1077c36e088039bf538f8.jpg)
I am saying FC Manchester can never be Manchester United because there are two clubs! If Manchester United folded, and FC Manchester wore the same colours, had the same fans, and laid claim to the history, then I, for one, would consider them to be Manchester United.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 04:11:09 PM
I am saying FC Manchester can never be Manchester United because there are two clubs! If Manchester United folded, and FC Manchester wore the same colours, had the same fans, and laid claim to the history, then I, for one, would consider them to be Manchester United.
I don't know where you would draw the line with this. I don't think you do either.
Have to say lads I don't think the FC United/Manchester United case even belongs in this discussion
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 04:14:03 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 04:11:09 PM
I am saying FC Manchester can never be Manchester United because there are two clubs! If Manchester United folded, and FC Manchester wore the same colours, had the same fans, and laid claim to the history, then I, for one, would consider them to be Manchester United.
I don't know where you would draw the line with this. I don't think you do either.
You're right. I don't. That's sort of my point. It's not a science, in my view. A club, a sense of identity is much more complex and emotive than a line in a companies register. You have a very clinical view, which is undoubtedly correct. But when the fans start talking about whether Rangers is the same as old Rangers, I think that academic discussion goes out the window. Even more so when the 'new' Rangers field the same players, play at the same stadium, lay claim to the same history and wear the same kit.
This is completely different than two teams both in existence at the same time fighting over identity, which is what happened in the NFL with the Baltimore Ravens and the Cleveland Browns and what you are referring to POTENTIALLY re. AFC Manchester and Manchester United.
Quote from: Boycey on January 21, 2015, 04:18:04 PM
Have to say lads I don't think the FC United/Manchester United case even belongs in this discussion
It doesn't, because they are two seperate clubs, co-existing. If AFC Manchester was created to fill the void left by Manchester United suddenly leaving, and wore the same kit, at Old Trafford, with all the same fans and the same roll of honour, then it would be a similar situation. Again, that is my point.
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 03:48:08 PM
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 21, 2015, 03:33:16 PM
See, I think this is factually wrong. Just because a company is in liquidation doesn't mean that there is nothing there to own. You aren't suggesting that the liquidated company - with a decent stadium and training facility - didn't have any assets?
I have difficulty with your logic here as well. If a club changes custodians through a sale (the primary interest of a purchasor being the assets) then that is ok, but if a liquidator is appointed to a company to transfer assets, then that's different. Why is it different?
You've pretty much answered your own question there. They are different, because one involves the sale of the company including the assets, and the other involves just selling the assets.
The assets (mainly the ground) will always belong to the club but never the company, that's the point. Plus a company transfer factors liabilities into price whereas an asset sale in liquidation does not.
Put it this way, if I find out that at any stage the owners of your beloved Liverpool (and mine as it happens) transferred assets away from the company to a third party without transferring the entire company holding the assets, you will accept that Liverpool FC ceased to exist at that point. Is that fair enough?
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 04:21:34 PM
Quote from: Boycey on January 21, 2015, 04:18:04 PM
Have to say lads I don't think the FC United/Manchester United case even belongs in this discussion
It doesn't, because they are two seperate clubs, co-existing. If AFC Manchester was created to fill the void left by Manchester United suddenly leaving, and wore the same kit, at Old Trafford, with all the same fans and the same roll of honour, then it would be a similar situation. Again, that is my point.
And your point is still vague to the point of being barely there. You say in the previous post that a sense of identity is complex and emotive and the academic discussion goes out the window. Given all that, if a future unfolded where FC United of Manchester got to the point where they were the most successful club in Manchester wearing red and called United and bought Old Trafford to house their legions of fans . . . it's ludicrous of course, but not much more ludicrous than the idea that AFC Manchester could take up the mantle of a fallen Manchester United and not skip a beat.
Are you seriously, seriously, telling me that the Rangers now plying their trade in the Scottish First Division is not the self same 'club' as that which was killed by the SFA? A club calling itself Rangers, playing at Ibrox, with the same players, the same identity, the same colours, and the same fans as the one which was there the season before . If you can not see that to all intents and purposes as far as the fans and opposition fans are concerned, this is the same team, then nothing I will say will convince you otherwise. To me, this Rangers is the very self same thing as what was there before, with some legalese to square the financial circle.
Your constant referral to Manchester United and AFC Manchester is clouding the issue, I suspect deliberately so. I have said several times that AFC Manchester cannot claim to be Manchester United because BOTH CLUBS are in operation at the same time. How could they be the same thing?
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 21, 2015, 04:23:39 PM
The assets (mainly the ground) will always belong to the club but never the company, that's the point. Plus a company transfer factors liabilities into price whereas an asset sale in liquidation does not.
If the club owns the assets, what does the company own?
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 21, 2015, 04:23:39 PMPut it this way, if I find out that at any stage the owners of your beloved Liverpool (and mine as it happens) transferred assets away from the company to a third party without transferring the entire company holding the assets, you will accept that Liverpool FC ceased to exist at that point. Is that fair enough?
I'm not sure how this is meant to work, but if I am understanding what you are saying and all the assets of Liverpool such as the ground, the intellectual property and player contracts (note this didn't happen with Rangers because for contractual purposes a player is tied to a company, not a club, which pretty much proves that there is no club without a company...but I digress) were transferred to another company, and all that was left was a registration in Companies House, you are asking me what would I be left supporting? The answer is: nothing.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 04:33:46 PM
Are you seriously, seriously, telling me that the Rangers now plying their trade in the Scottish First Division is not the self same 'club' as that which was killed by the SFA? A club calling itself Rangers, playing at Ibrox, with the same players, the same identity, the same colours, and the same fans as the one which was there the season before . If you can not see that to all intents and purposes as far as the fans and opposition fans are concerned, this is the same team, then nothing I will say will convince you otherwise. To me, this Rangers is the very self same thing as what was there before, with some legalese to square the financial circle.
I don't know why you are referring to Rangers being killed by the SFA, no such thing happened. But in answer to your question, it is not the same club.
And that is where I disagree. And you are 100% correct, technically. But I am correct where it matters, in the heart of what the game is supposed to stand for. :D
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 04:33:46 PM
Your constant referral to Manchester United and AFC Manchester is clouding the issue, I suspect deliberately so. I have said several times that AFC Manchester cannot claim to be Manchester United because BOTH CLUBS are in operation at the same time. How could they be the same thing?
Because if you believe that clubs are about the essence and what supporters believe, then you are not going to be able to face down those who believe FC United of Manchester are the true spirit of Manchester United. The fact that the two clubs existed side-by-side is meaningless when you have faith.
If both clubs exist at the same time, how can one claim to be the other? Do they just pretend that the other doesn't exist?
Laying claim to have the 'spirit' of busby and the like, and bemoaning the way United is being run, is not the same thing in my mind.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 04:40:31 PM
If both clubs exist at the same time, how can one claim to be the other? Do they just pretend that the other doesn't exist?
Laying claim to have the 'spirit' of busby and the like, and bemoaning the way United is being run, is not the same thing in my mind.
You're the one claiming to be "correct where it matters, in the heart of what the game is supposed to stand for". Arguing from authority.
Of course I am. You're all about the business. I'm about the love of the game man.
Quote from: dec on January 21, 2015, 02:55:26 PM
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 09:27:02 AMthen why did the club that finished 2nd in the top tier in Scottish football in 2012 start the following season in the fourth tier? If you can explain that in a football context then I will accept that it is the same club. Otherwise, the logical conclusion to draw is that the old club ceased to exist and a new club emerged in the fourth tier. It may be draped in all the finery of the old club, and that does matter. But it is still a new club.
There are a number of rules about football competitions, some regarding the playing of the games, some about the organization of the competition and some about the business side of the teams. Rangers broke the business rules very seriously and were punished by being expelled from the competition they were in. They were readmitted to a lower level of the competition with the same manager and many of the same players, the same fans and playing at the same stadium with the same name and same blue white and red colour scheme for their strip.
They are the same club
Exactly, no two ways about it!
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 21, 2015, 03:57:43 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 21, 2015, 03:39:58 PM
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 21, 2015, 02:26:55 PM
Not sure that patronising and condescending comment merits a response, but I'll accede in this instance.
Point - if my point here isn't already clear to you then that's a personal issue. Others seem to have taken the debate on knowing full well what my point is and without accusing me of having an agenda.
Mission? I have no agenda here. I'm merely pointing out that the whole Sevco joke is a little jaded and a little disingenuous. I have no deliberate intention of linking everything Celtic does with Rangers. I was asking people if the situation was reversed would you be so hung up on legalities and clinical on such issues?
Seriously Lynchboy - what's your take on the game coming up against Rangers? Completely new club and Celtic have had no previous games or dealings with them at all? I am genuinely interested in your answer.
you original point wasn't clear.
it was not apparent whether you believed rangers were no longer in existence
or rangers were the same club as before
you seemed to be trying to tie in Celtic to rangers under the 'old firm' thing which many Celtic fans for over a decade have been trying to distance themselves from , as Celtic are not a 'green' version of rangers.
the supporters and their behaviour can demonstrate that straight away.
the behaviour of the clubs commercial operations also demonstrate that.
your comments
"Isn't it funny how people see their own favoured club as something with a unique culture, sacred places, indellible memories and a special status that can't be reduced to mere legal entity, and yet when it comes to rival clubs they can be reduced to documents lodged in Companies House and sets of property deeds."
are very wide of the mark to say the least.
so what were you saying.
others commented but made statements rather than answers imo
anyhow
I actually posed the question to you asking what your point was. it was not intended to be patronising or condescending.
I genuinely was unclear what you were trying to say.
my response to your question is
it might be a 'new' rangers commercially in the company registrations office - but they still have the same fans, colours and as far as I know , there has been no official comment on stripping rangers as they were, of their titles won in the 'questionable dozen years of financial irregularity ' or setting their title count back to zero- by the sfa or whatever they are called these days.
that's because they want this to blow over and people will de facto assume its the same rangers and have the same titles and so on, as they are the establishment club and t would be easier (and more palatable) for them in the long run.
so while I detest that people call it the old firm - let alone new firm (theres no fecking firm at all) - to me I still see rangers.
yes they shouldn't exist, and the rules have been bent out of shape. but I cant see how it isn't rangers.
I would have loved the club to be wound up and get rid of their naked and unabated sectarianism.
but these low lifes (they aren't all like this btw) will find some other anti social aggressive sectarian outlet instead and I don't think Scottish society want that either.
while many clubs miss rangers for the money element, many fans don't miss the aggro and hassle (from what im told by Dundee, Dundee utd, hibs and Aberdeen fans for example).
imo
Christ, right. Start at the top I suppose.
I wasn't trying to tie Celtic in with them. I wasn't even talking about Celtic. I did use them as a comparitor to prove a point but if I had been talking about, let's say, United and Liverpool, I don't think the fans from the other side would have gotten so defensive and accused me of dragging their favoured club into this. I think most reasonable people would see this.
My point couldn't have been more clear that I see Rangers are the same club as before. I used comedic irony to ask questions that a fair and honest answer would expose the hypocrisy of the situation.
At least you have acknowledged that it is the same Rangers, and for that you deserve some credit.
In summation I go back to my previous comment - football clubs and companies are not synonymous terms and it's idle to pretend that they are.
it just looked like you were trying to equate Celtic with rangers - that's all!
we might believe that rangers are effectively the same clubs (other do too) but that's our opinion, doesn't mean it is correct.
actually I don't really care.
I wish they would be annulled and be gone from Scottish football as it would get rid of a lot of problems in terms of fans.
but This wont happen.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 04:48:09 PM
Of course I am. You're all about the business. I'm about the love of the game man.
I think when the dust has settled you'll feel a bit embarrassed by this one 8)
what about Wimbledon and mk dons scenario ....?
that's more like the American franchise thing
does anyone think the new Wimbledon are the old one in any way?
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 04:39:03 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 04:33:46 PM
Your constant referral to Manchester United and AFC Manchester is clouding the issue, I suspect deliberately so. I have said several times that AFC Manchester cannot claim to be Manchester United because BOTH CLUBS are in operation at the same time. How could they be the same thing?
Because if you believe that clubs are about the essence and what supporters believe, then you are not going to be able to face down those who believe FC United of Manchester are the true spirit of Manchester United. The fact that the two clubs existed side-by-side is meaningless when you have faith.
Does such a person exist? Will such a person ever exist?
Quote from: Boycey on January 21, 2015, 04:55:32 PM
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 04:39:03 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 04:33:46 PM
Your constant referral to Manchester United and AFC Manchester is clouding the issue, I suspect deliberately so. I have said several times that AFC Manchester cannot claim to be Manchester United because BOTH CLUBS are in operation at the same time. How could they be the same thing?
Because if you believe that clubs are about the essence and what supporters believe, then you are not going to be able to face down those who believe FC United of Manchester are the true spirit of Manchester United. The fact that the two clubs existed side-by-side is meaningless when you have faith.
Does such a person exist? Will such a person ever exist?
Wind the clock back 20 years and pose to someone the possibility of Rangers going bust.
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 04:53:03 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 04:48:09 PM
Of course I am. You're all about the business. I'm about the love of the game man.
I think when the dust has settled you'll feel a bit embarrassed by this one 8)
I really don't think so. I feel I must be explaining myself very poorly, because I cannot believe that someone who obviously loves the game, and 1 club in particular, would tie up their entire sense of identity of that club in whether or not company law sees it as the same legal entity or not.
I cannot believe that you would not consider a team playing in red, called Liverpool, at Anfield, with 5 stars on it's badge, as Liverpool, simply because the legal entity called Liverpool that was in place before ran into legal difficulties and was wound up.
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 03:01:27 PM
Quote from: dec on January 21, 2015, 02:55:26 PM
There are a number of rules about football competitions, some regarding the playing of the games, some about the organization of the competition and some about the business side of the teams. Rangers broke the business rules very seriously and were punished by being expelled from the competition they were in. They were readmitted to a lower level of the competition with the same manager and many of the same players, the same fans and playing at the same stadium with the same name and same blue white and red colour scheme for their strip.
They are the same club.
I direct you to my reply above. Rangers were not demoted or expelled or anything like that. They went out of existence quite independently of any punishment they may have received from the SFA or SPL. And if they were 'readmitted', how do you explain Oldco getting to vote on Newco's application to the SPL?
The rangers that went bust should have had all their assets sold off to pay their debts.
That means selling their ground, training ground, player and even their teapots to settle what they owe.
even their trophies should have been sent off to be smelted to raise cash.
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 04:57:18 PM
Quote from: Boycey on January 21, 2015, 04:55:32 PM
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 04:39:03 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 04:33:46 PM
Your constant referral to Manchester United and AFC Manchester is clouding the issue, I suspect deliberately so. I have said several times that AFC Manchester cannot claim to be Manchester United because BOTH CLUBS are in operation at the same time. How could they be the same thing?
Because if you believe that clubs are about the essence and what supporters believe, then you are not going to be able to face down those who believe FC United of Manchester are the true spirit of Manchester United. The fact that the two clubs existed side-by-side is meaningless when you have faith.
Does such a person exist? Will such a person ever exist?
Wind the clock back 20 years and pose to someone the possibility of Rangers going bust.
You're comparing apples and bicycles.....
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 04:57:54 PM
I really don't think so. I feel I must be explaining myself very poorly, because I cannot believe that someone who obviously loves the game, and 1 club in particular, would tie up their entire sense of identity of that club in whether or not company law sees it as the same legal entity or not.
I cannot believe that you would not consider a team playing in red, called Liverpool, at Anfield, with 5 stars on it's badge, as Liverpool, simply because the legal entity called Liverpool that was in place before ran into legal difficulties and was wound up.
If Liverpool FC got liquidated due to 'legal difficulties', a team playing in red, called Liverpool, at Anfield, with 5 stars on it's badge after it would be a zombie.
And you would not see them as the same 'team' as what went before?
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 05:27:45 PM
And you would not see them as the same 'team' as what went before?
No. They got into "legal difficulties" for a reason. The new team would be a sham designed to get around that.
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 05:29:52 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 05:27:45 PM
And you would not see them as the same 'team' as what went before?
No. They got into "legal difficulties" for a reason. The new team would be a sham designed to get around that.
Fair enough. I would.
deiseach, in a football sense you are wrong.
Ask the average football fan the name of the limited company that is their football club. I would guess that not many will actually know the company name. They may well guess "Arsenal Football Club Limited" or the like but, generally, they wouldn't know the answer.
This is because the fans are invested in the club, its players, ethos and history, and not the legal entity that actually owns the whole shooting match. The fans aren't being employed by the legal entity (as its employees are) so the actual legal entity is of pretty much no importance to them.
Whether you think (or even I) this is right or wrong doesn't really matter. It's what the majority of football fans would think and that's why the banter and song singing will transfer from one legal entity to the next. If you can't see that then you need to broaden your perspective a bit.
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 05:26:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 21, 2015, 04:57:54 PM
I really don't think so. I feel I must be explaining myself very poorly, because I cannot believe that someone who obviously loves the game, and 1 club in particular, would tie up their entire sense of identity of that club in whether or not company law sees it as the same legal entity or not.
I cannot believe that you would not consider a team playing in red, called Liverpool, at Anfield, with 5 stars on it's badge, as Liverpool, simply because the legal entity called Liverpool that was in place before ran into legal difficulties and was wound up.
If Liverpool FC got liquidated due to 'legal difficulties', a team playing in red, called Liverpool, at Anfield, with 5 stars on it's badge after it would be a zombie.
This man would fit right in again then!!!
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1098553/thumbs/s-SUAREZ-BITES-large.jpg)
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 22, 2015, 11:06:08 AM
This man would fit right in again then!!!
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1098553/thumbs/s-SUAREZ-BITES-large.jpg)
If that's what it takes, liquidate away! ;)
Quote from: deiseach on January 22, 2015, 11:25:08 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 22, 2015, 11:06:08 AM
This man would fit right in again then!!!
(http://i.huffpost.com/gen/1098553/thumbs/s-SUAREZ-BITES-large.jpg)
If that's what it takes, liquidate away! ;)
F**k me he couldn't wait to get away from Liverpool, he'd hardly come back to play for Liverpool "light" ;D
Zombies are drawn together . . . which means we'd end up with Jermaine Defoe! >:(
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 21, 2015, 04:55:05 PM
what about Wimbledon and mk dons scenario ....?
that's more like the American franchise thing
does anyone think the new Wimbledon are the old one in any way?
Everyone has ignored this Question? Why? It points the the reality of a Club being an affinity rather than a business to fans.
I must say I'm enjoying the drama of all of this. Rangers lived beyond their means for decades! Won a truck load of trophies illegally.
Quote from: Smokin Joe on January 22, 2015, 09:31:16 AM
deiseach, in a football sense you are wrong.
Ask the average football fan the name of the limited company that is their football club. I would guess that not many will actually know the company name. They may well guess "Arsenal Football Club Limited" or the like but, generally, they wouldn't know the answer.
This is because the fans are invested in the club, its players, ethos and history, and not the legal entity that actually owns the whole shooting match. The fans aren't being employed by the legal entity (as its employees are) so the actual legal entity is of pretty much no importance to them.
Whether you think (or even I) this is right or wrong doesn't really matter. It's what the majority of football fans would think and that's why the banter and song singing will transfer from one legal entity to the next. If you can't see that then you need to broaden your perspective a bit.
There was no separate "legal entity" which owned Rangers. There was only the club. There was no distinction in law or football authorities between the club and a separate "legal entity". The club went bust and was liquidated.
Only in the wake of that liquidation a holding company was formed. The holding company bought the assets of the liquidated club, a new club wholly owned by the holding company was then formed. What you describe may be the current set-up but certainly wasn't the case before liquidation.
Quote from: Ulick on January 22, 2015, 02:16:39 PM
Quote from: Smokin Joe on January 22, 2015, 09:31:16 AM
deiseach, in a football sense you are wrong.
Ask the average football fan the name of the limited company that is their football club. I would guess that not many will actually know the company name. They may well guess "Arsenal Football Club Limited" or the like but, generally, they wouldn't know the answer.
This is because the fans are invested in the club, its players, ethos and history, and not the legal entity that actually owns the whole shooting match. The fans aren't being employed by the legal entity (as its employees are) so the actual legal entity is of pretty much no importance to them.
Whether you think (or even I) this is right or wrong doesn't really matter. It's what the majority of football fans would think and that's why the banter and song singing will transfer from one legal entity to the next. If you can't see that then you need to broaden your perspective a bit.
There was no separate "legal entity" which owned Rangers. There was only the club. There was no distinction in law or football authorities between the club and a separate "legal entity". The club went bust and was liquidated.
Only in the wake of that liquidation a holding company was formed. The holding company bought the assets of the liquidated club, a new club wholly owned by the holding company was then formed. What you describe may be the current set-up but certainly wasn't the case before liquidation.
He didn't say there was.
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 22, 2015, 01:35:17 PM
Everyone has ignored this Question? Why? It points the the reality of a Club being an affinity rather than a business to fans.
If we assume that there are two positions - those who think the club and company are indivisible, and those who think the club can be separated from the company and not lose anything that is the club - then neither AFC Wimbledon or MK Dons fits. Neither club claims to be the continuation of Wimbledon FC. AFC obviously claim to be the spiritual successor and phoenix of Wimbledon, but they don't pretend to have been founded before 2002. That acceptance of reality is one of the club's many admirable qualities.
They also celebrate the 1988 success as their own. Well at least the BBC pretends that they do. Oh, and their is this (albeit from Wiki)
QuoteThe club crest, which is based on the coat of arms of the Municipal Borough of Wimbledon, features a black double headed eagle in reference to a local legend that Julius Caesar once made camp on Wimbledon Common, this symbol being his own attributed coat of arms. The crest is designed to replicate, as closely as legally possible, the crest of the original Wimbledon F.C. in order to reflect the fact that AFC Wimbledon see themselves as a continuation of the club that existed before relocation and rebranding as MK Dons. The club wished to preserve Wimbledon FC's legacy and traditions for the loyal fans who felt that the relocation had isolated the club from its roots and community to such an extent that it no longer bore the hallmark of the club that they had once supported and that AFC Wimbledon was its spiritual, if not legal, successor.
Oh yeah, there is also this from their official site. Deiseach, maybe they are not that admirable at all after all.
Club Honours
The supporters of AFC Wimbledon believe that our club is a continuation of the spirit which formed Wimbledon Old Centrals in 1889 and kept Wimbledon Football Club alive until May 2002. We consider that a football club is not simply the legal entity which controls it, but that it is the community formed by the fans and players working towards a common goal. We therefore reproduce the honours won by what we believe was, and will always be, 'our' club, in our community.
1894-95 Joined South London League
Read more at http://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99 (ftp://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99)
I don't have a problem with any of that.
Edit: the thing is, if AFC Wimbledon claimed that nothing had changed, that all that had happened was that the legal entity had changed but the club was eternal, I think they they'd be the target of general ridicule, not appreciation. To reiterate, nowhere do they claim they are the same club.
You don't have a problem that they consider themselves a continuation of Wimbledon FC, and that they claim the trophies won by Wimbledon FC as their own?
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 22, 2015, 03:20:22 PM
Oh yeah, there is also this from their official site. Deiseach, maybe they are not that admirable at all after all.
Club Honours
The supporters of AFC Wimbledon believe that our club is a continuation of the spirit which formed Wimbledon Old Centrals in 1889 and kept Wimbledon Football Club alive until May 2002. We consider that a football club is not simply the legal entity which controls it, but that it is the community formed by the fans and players working towards a common goal. We therefore reproduce the honours won by what we believe was, and will always be, 'our' club, in our community.
1894-95 Joined South London League
Read more at http://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99 (ftp://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99)
I think there was something similar to the American process of "handing back" the history a few year's ago, at least from the MK Dons side.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 22, 2015, 03:20:22 PM
Oh yeah, there is also this from their official site. Deiseach, maybe they are not that admirable at all after all.
Club Honours
The supporters of AFC Wimbledon believe that our club is a continuation of the spirit which formed Wimbledon Old Centrals in 1889 and kept Wimbledon Football Club alive until May 2002. We consider that a football club is not simply the legal entity which controls it, but that it is the community formed by the fans and players working towards a common goal. We therefore reproduce the honours won by what we believe was, and will always be, 'our' club, in our community. (ftp://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99)
1894-95 Joined South London League
Read more at http://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99[/ftp]
Quote from: deiseach on January 22, 2015, 03:35:59 PM
I don't have a problem with any of that.
Is the part in bold not exactly what you have been arguing with all along??
AZ says a club is more than just a legal/financial entity - you say it isn't??
I'm confused?
Quote from: deiseach on January 22, 2015, 02:42:24 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 22, 2015, 01:35:17 PM
Everyone has ignored this Question? Why? It points the the reality of a Club being an affinity rather than a business to fans.
If we assume that there are two positions - those who think the club and company are indivisible, and those who think the club can be separated from the company and not lose anything that is the club - then neither AFC Wimbledon or MK Dons fits. Neither club claims to be the continuation of Wimbledon FC. AFC obviously claim to be the spiritual successor and phoenix of Wimbledon, but they don't pretend to have been founded before 2002. That acceptance of reality is one of the club's many admirable qualities.
They claim that the legal entity was formed in 2002 but they lay claim to the full histroy of the 'old' Wimbledon - right back as far as 1895 if you don't mind.
Isn't this exactly what 'Rangers' fans have done?
Quote from: gallsman on January 22, 2015, 03:42:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 22, 2015, 03:20:22 PM
Oh yeah, there is also this from their official site. Deiseach, maybe they are not that admirable at all after all.
Club Honours
The supporters of AFC Wimbledon believe that our club is a continuation of the spirit which formed Wimbledon Old Centrals in 1889 and kept Wimbledon Football Club alive until May 2002. We consider that a football club is not simply the legal entity which controls it, but that it is the community formed by the fans and players working towards a common goal. We therefore reproduce the honours won by what we believe was, and will always be, 'our' club, in our community.
1894-95 Joined South London League
Read more at http://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99 (ftp://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99)
I think there was something similar to the American process of "handing back" the history a few year's ago, at least from the MK Dons side.
So if the Rangers administrators 'handed back' the history of the club to Sevco, everything would be OK? Oh dear.
Quote from: Franko on January 22, 2015, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 22, 2015, 03:42:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 22, 2015, 03:20:22 PM
Oh yeah, there is also this from their official site. Deiseach, maybe they are not that admirable at all after all.
Club Honours
The supporters of AFC Wimbledon believe that our club is a continuation of the spirit which formed Wimbledon Old Centrals in 1889 and kept Wimbledon Football Club alive until May 2002. We consider that a football club is not simply the legal entity which controls it, but that it is the community formed by the fans and players working towards a common goal. We therefore reproduce the honours won by what we believe was, and will always be, 'our' club, in our community.
1894-95 Joined South London League
Read more at http://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99 (ftp://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99)
I think there was something similar to the American process of "handing back" the history a few year's ago, at least from the MK Dons side.
So if the Rangers administrators 'handed back' the history of the club to Sevco, everything would be OK? Oh dear.
Did I say anything of the sort? I couldn't give two shites about newco/oldco/sevco or whatever and struggle to understand anyone on this board who does. I merely raised a point pertinent to the particular discussion.
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 22, 2015, 03:41:16 PM
You don't have a problem that they consider themselves a continuation of Wimbledon FC, and that they claim the trophies won by Wimbledon FC as their own?
Their statement is laden with caveats that your statement above strips out.
Quote from: gallsman on January 22, 2015, 03:42:02 PM
I think there was something similar to the American process of "handing back" the history a few year's ago, at least from the MK Dons side.
I saw one wag saying that Celtic missed a trick in not buying the history of Rangers when they had the chance!
Deiseach, I think when the dust has settled you'll feel a bit embarrassed by this one 8)
I can't believe the consternation that this whole thing has caused on here. I go back to my earlier statement and deiseach's very succinct response.
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 09:33:52 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 21, 2015, 09:30:36 AM
New stick, same shit.
Pithy ;D
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 22, 2015, 04:02:55 PM
I can't believe the consternation that this whole thing has caused on here. I go back to my earlier statement and deiseach's very succinct response.
Quote from: deiseach on January 21, 2015, 09:33:52 AM
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on January 21, 2015, 09:30:36 AM
New stick, same shit.
Pithy ;D
Not so pithy.
I don't think for a second that anyone particularly gives a shit about the club in the thread title (hence we've spent longer discussing Wimbledon and Liverpool). It's the debate around what makes a club that's caused the fuss.
Quote from: gallsman on January 22, 2015, 03:49:49 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 22, 2015, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 22, 2015, 03:42:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 22, 2015, 03:20:22 PM
Oh yeah, there is also this from their official site. Deiseach, maybe they are not that admirable at all after all.
Club Honours
The supporters of AFC Wimbledon believe that our club is a continuation of the spirit which formed Wimbledon Old Centrals in 1889 and kept Wimbledon Football Club alive until May 2002. We consider that a football club is not simply the legal entity which controls it, but that it is the community formed by the fans and players working towards a common goal. We therefore reproduce the honours won by what we believe was, and will always be, 'our' club, in our community.
1894-95 Joined South London League
Read more at http://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99 (ftp://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99)
I think there was something similar to the American process of "handing back" the history a few year's ago, at least from the MK Dons side.
So if the Rangers administrators 'handed back' the history of the club to Sevco, everything would be OK? Oh dear.
Did I say anything of the sort? I couldn't give two shites about newco/oldco/sevco or whatever and struggle to understand anyone on this board who does. I merely raised a point pertinent to the particular discussion.
That's debatable.
We're definitely going around in circles on this one, so I'll summarise my position on old and new clubs by looking to a potential future, specifically the potential future of Hereford FC. If they get their act together (Wiki suggests it's still all up in the air) and the day comes when they reach the third round of the FA Cup against Newcastle United, you're going to have repeated showings of Ronnie Radford and pitch invasions by small kids and bulls paraded around Edgar Street before the game. Should they pull off a giant-killing act, all of the above will get mentioned in the post-game coverage. And why not? It's all good fun, people's memories are part of the occasion and I wouldn't deny it to anyone.
None of it would mean that Newcastle were beaten on both occasions by the same club.
Quote from: Franko on January 22, 2015, 04:25:15 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 22, 2015, 03:49:49 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 22, 2015, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 22, 2015, 03:42:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 22, 2015, 03:20:22 PM
Oh yeah, there is also this from their official site. Deiseach, maybe they are not that admirable at all after all.
Club Honours
The supporters of AFC Wimbledon believe that our club is a continuation of the spirit which formed Wimbledon Old Centrals in 1889 and kept Wimbledon Football Club alive until May 2002. We consider that a football club is not simply the legal entity which controls it, but that it is the community formed by the fans and players working towards a common goal. We therefore reproduce the honours won by what we believe was, and will always be, 'our' club, in our community.
1894-95 Joined South London League
Read more at http://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99 (ftp://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99)
I think there was something similar to the American process of "handing back" the history a few year's ago, at least from the MK Dons side.
So if the Rangers administrators 'handed back' the history of the club to Sevco, everything would be OK? Oh dear.
Did I say anything of the sort? I couldn't give two shites about newco/oldco/sevco or whatever and struggle to understand anyone on this board who does. I merely raised a point pertinent to the particular discussion.
That's debatable.
It's a discussion board - debate away. Given the conversation was around Wimbledon/MK Dons/AFC Wimbledon and laying claim to history, I think you'd struggle but feel free to knock yourself out.
Quote from: deiseach on January 22, 2015, 04:27:07 PM
We're definitely going around in circles on this one, so I'll summarise my position on old and new clubs by looking to a potential future, specifically the potential future of Hereford FC. If they get their act together (Wiki suggests it's still all up in the air) and the day comes when they reach the third round of the FA Cup against Newcastle United, you're going to have repeated showings of Ronnie Radford and pitch invasions by small kids and bulls paraded around Edgar Street before the game. Should they pull off a giant-killing act, all of the above will get mentioned in the post-game coverage. And why not? It's all good fun, people's memories are part of the occasion and I wouldn't deny it to anyone.
None of it would mean that Newcastle were beaten on both occasions by the same club.
I guarantee that to most Hereford fans that's exactly what it will mean.
Quote from: gallsman on January 22, 2015, 04:42:38 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 22, 2015, 04:25:15 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 22, 2015, 03:49:49 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 22, 2015, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 22, 2015, 03:42:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 22, 2015, 03:20:22 PM
Oh yeah, there is also this from their official site. Deiseach, maybe they are not that admirable at all after all.
Club Honours
The supporters of AFC Wimbledon believe that our club is a continuation of the spirit which formed Wimbledon Old Centrals in 1889 and kept Wimbledon Football Club alive until May 2002. We consider that a football club is not simply the legal entity which controls it, but that it is the community formed by the fans and players working towards a common goal. We therefore reproduce the honours won by what we believe was, and will always be, 'our' club, in our community.
1894-95 Joined South London League
Read more at http://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99 (ftp://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99)
I think there was something similar to the American process of "handing back" the history a few year's ago, at least from the MK Dons side.
So if the Rangers administrators 'handed back' the history of the club to Sevco, everything would be OK? Oh dear.
Did I say anything of the sort? I couldn't give two shites about newco/oldco/sevco or whatever and struggle to understand anyone on this board who does. I merely raised a point pertinent to the particular discussion.
That's debatable.
It's a discussion board - debate away. Given the conversation was around Wimbledon/MK Dons/AFC Wimbledon and laying claim to history, I think you'd struggle but feel free to knock yourself out.
Rangers should have been made play in orange jumpsuits as what they did was a criminal act.
They'd like the colour at least.
Quote from: gallsman on January 22, 2015, 04:42:38 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 22, 2015, 04:25:15 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 22, 2015, 03:49:49 PM
Quote from: Franko on January 22, 2015, 03:47:08 PM
Quote from: gallsman on January 22, 2015, 03:42:02 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on January 22, 2015, 03:20:22 PM
Oh yeah, there is also this from their official site. Deiseach, maybe they are not that admirable at all after all.
Club Honours
The supporters of AFC Wimbledon believe that our club is a continuation of the spirit which formed Wimbledon Old Centrals in 1889 and kept Wimbledon Football Club alive until May 2002. We consider that a football club is not simply the legal entity which controls it, but that it is the community formed by the fans and players working towards a common goal. We therefore reproduce the honours won by what we believe was, and will always be, 'our' club, in our community.
1894-95 Joined South London League
Read more at http://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99 (ftp://www.afcwimbledon.co.uk/club/clubhonours/index.aspx#c4FZxbcKXlwU7pEo.99)
I think there was something similar to the American process of "handing back" the history a few year's ago, at least from the MK Dons side.
So if the Rangers administrators 'handed back' the history of the club to Sevco, everything would be OK? Oh dear.
Did I say anything of the sort? I couldn't give two shites about newco/oldco/sevco or whatever and struggle to understand anyone on this board who does. I merely raised a point pertinent to the particular discussion.
That's debatable.
It's a discussion board - debate away. Given the conversation was around Wimbledon/MK Dons/AFC Wimbledon and laying claim to history, I think you'd struggle but feel free to knock yourself out.
It was a token gesture.
From the legal perspective the new club has no connection to the old club and the club's 'history' was exactly that.
From the fans' perspective they owned the club's 'history' anyway.
Either way the 'handing back' was totally irrelevant.
I think the 'Club' is the legal entity.
In Ireland, clubs seek liquor licenses and, for example, fire certificates from the authorities. Thus they are legally recognised. In that regard, does closing a club and opening a new one creates a new legal entity?
Take the above with a grain of salt though.
"As Celtic supporters, we regrettably recognise that our club had an association with Rangers (1872) through the collective descriptive term, The Old Firm."
Haha, got a little tickle from this, fair play, a hammering for Sevco Scotland Ltd in the cup semi-final would go down a treat. Maybe all future meetings will be under the banner of The New Firm, regrettably.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-fans-spark-storm-protest-5040733
Talking to a few Rangers fans over the weekend and they're not looking forward to this match, they fear getting a hiding but I doubt it would get to that. Celtic def have a better team but it's a one off cup game and anything can happen but I still have to say Celtic will win 2-0 (doesn't bear thinking them hoors winning that match)
Quote from: tiempo on January 26, 2015, 12:15:42 AM
"As Celtic supporters, we regrettably recognise that our club had an association with Rangers (1872) through the collective descriptive term, The Old Firm."
Haha, got a little tickle from this, fair play, a hammering for Sevco Scotland Ltd in the cup semi-final would go down a treat. Maybe all future meetings will be under the banner of The New Firm, regrettably.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-fans-spark-storm-protest-5040733
Deeply foolish behaviour. I'd compare it to sticking your arm through the bars at the ape enclosure at the zoo - except the apes would be less prone to mindless violence.
I have no doubt it will be a very difficult game on Sunday.Some Celtic fans are talking about silly scorelines but I think it will be a lot closer than most people imagine.
Quote from: tiempo on January 26, 2015, 12:15:42 AM
"As Celtic supporters, we regrettably recognise that our club had an association with Rangers (1872) through the collective descriptive term, The Old Firm."
Haha, got a little tickle from this, fair play, a hammering for Sevco Scotland Ltd in the cup semi-final would go down a treat. Maybe all future meetings will be under the banner of The New Firm, regrettably.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-fans-spark-storm-protest-5040733
Always disliked this aspect of Scottish soccor. Being anti somebody else's club as opposed to being for your own club. Talk about going down to the level.
Quote from: rrhf on January 26, 2015, 11:42:49 AM
Quote from: tiempo on January 26, 2015, 12:15:42 AM
"As Celtic supporters, we regrettably recognise that our club had an association with Rangers (1872) through the collective descriptive term, The Old Firm."
Haha, got a little tickle from this, fair play, a hammering for Sevco Scotland Ltd in the cup semi-final would go down a treat. Maybe all future meetings will be under the banner of The New Firm, regrettably.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-fans-spark-storm-protest-5040733
Always disliked this aspect of Scottish soccor. Being anti somebody else's club as opposed to being for your own club. Talk about going down to the level.
indeed
but it isn't just Scottish soccer that has this ...its rife in English soccer, as well as dutch, Italian, german, Spanish, Argentinian, brazillian etc
Quote from: deiseach on January 26, 2015, 10:41:06 AM
Quote from: tiempo on January 26, 2015, 12:15:42 AM
“As Celtic supporters, we regrettably recognise that our club had an association with Rangers (1872) through the collective descriptive term, The Old Firm."
Haha, got a little tickle from this, fair play, a hammering for Sevco Scotland Ltd in the cup semi-final would go down a treat. Maybe all future meetings will be under the banner of The New Firm, regrettably.
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/celtic-fans-spark-storm-protest-5040733
Deeply foolish behaviour. I'd compare it to sticking your arm through the bars at the ape enclosure at the zoo - except the apes would be less prone to mindless violence.
So if there's a violent reaction from the Newco we can expect Je Suis Celtic to start trending on Twitter!
Quote from: thewingedlady on January 26, 2015, 01:08:30 PM
So if there's a violent reaction from the Newco we can expect Je Suis Celtic to start trending on Twitter!
;D
Quote from: Club Rossa on January 26, 2015, 10:41:32 AM
I have no doubt it will be a very difficult game on Sunday.Some Celtic fans are talking about silly scorelines but I think it will be a lot closer than most people imagine.
agree. anybody who thinks celtic are going to stick 5 or 6 past rangers on sunday is deluded.
rangers will have 10 men behind the ball and the game will be similar to the ross county game on saturday past.
Rangers to win 1-0 is 25/1. Worth a punt for sure!
It be hilarious if Rangers won.
Quote from: clarshack on January 26, 2015, 01:25:22 PM
Quote from: Club Rossa on January 26, 2015, 10:41:32 AM
I have no doubt it will be a very difficult game on Sunday.Some Celtic fans are talking about silly scorelines but I think it will be a lot closer than most people imagine.
agree. anybody who thinks celtic are going to stick 5 or 6 past rangers on sunday is deluded.
rangers will have 10 men behind the ball and the game will be similar to the ross county game on saturday past.
most Celtic home games for past few years in spl have been like this. Not so much in the away games.
So I expect the new version of rangers team (they have the same old knuckledragger support though as the old rangers had!)
I know the cops and many in Glasgow/Scotland preferred a rangers win when the old version of the two clubs met.
not as they were rangers supporters, but there was far far less violence after the huns won. wives were safe from their husbands etc!
Celtic v Rnagers on BBC 1 Scotland tomorrow. Looking forward to it!
http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30971812 (http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/30971812)
10/11 Celtic -1? The only thing that can stop the Bhoys is complacency,and Deila will be lucky to survive should Rangers win. Like it or not,Celtic and Rangers represent nationalist/republican and unionist/loyalist communities.It is this that makes the fixture one of the best in world football for atmosphere and passion
Quote from: T Fearon on January 31, 2015, 10:26:05 PM
10/11 Celtic -1? The only thing that can stop the Bhoys is complacency,and Deila will be lucky to survive should Rangers win. Like it or not,Celtic and Rangers represent nationalist/republican and unionist/loyalist communities.It is this that makes the fixture one of the best in world football for atmosphere and passion
Have to disagree - Have been to one Old Firm game and the atmosphere was poisonous and extremely unpleasant.
Quote from: T Fearon on January 31, 2015, 10:26:05 PM
10/11 Celtic -1? The only thing that can stop the Bhoys is complacency,and Deila will be lucky to survive should Rangers win. Like it or not,Celtic and Rangers represent nationalist/republican and unionist/loyalist communities.It is this that makes the fixture one of the best in world football for atmosphere and passion
And as for the standard of the football on show, you'd probably see better down the Phoenix Park on a Sunday morning.
Quote from: T Fearon on January 31, 2015, 10:26:05 PM
10/11 Celtic -1? The only thing that can stop the Bhoys is complacency,and Deila will be lucky to survive should Rangers win. Like it or not,Celtic and Rangers represent nationalist/republican and unionist/loyalist communities.It is this that makes the fixture one of the best in world football for atmosphere and passion
If by that you mean the moron wing of either side I would be in full agreement. It's a laughably moronic idea to define any part of your Irish republican (or other) political identity through the support of a soccer club over the water. The political element to the rivalry is rarely anything other than a complete embarrassment
Celtic represent the Irish community in the West of Scotland and globally and Rangers ditto the Unionist community.Nothing whatsoever wrong with that,both clubs have their Neanderthal supporters who are no worse than Chelsea's,Leeds,or English national team for example.
The political sectarian edge to he fixture marks it out,as does the political edge mark out Roma V Lazio. For the most part it is witty and humorous even if a small minority go overboard.A Rangers Director a few years ago described the Old Firm fans as 90 minute bigots.I wouldn't disagree with that.
Quote from: frostbit on January 31, 2015, 09:11:26 PM
Part of me wants Celtic to get chinned to shut up all these annoying Celtic men on Facebook - Sevco this, Newco that. They are actually calling it the New Firm lol.
Normally enjoy a pint in the Felons on a Sunday. Thank God I'm away to Dublin in the morning. It'll be full of tattooed fuckwits and middle aged Celtic-passionate men freeing Ireland with their Celtic tops using phrases like 'we' when referring to Celtic. f**k the f**k off.
Only thing is the other side are exactly the same. Blind in their hatred for each other.
You are completely wrong when you equate the supporters , teams and clubs
Celtic fans for example win the hearts of people abroad when they play there.
The old rangers teams fans abroad only used to clock up riots and arrests in each locality
Celtic would have some idiots in their support but there's no comparison in the volume compared to that of rangers
Quote from: whiskeysteve on January 31, 2015, 11:14:59 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 31, 2015, 10:26:05 PM
10/11 Celtic -1? The only thing that can stop the Bhoys is complacency,and Deila will be lucky to survive should Rangers win. Like it or not,Celtic and Rangers represent nationalist/republican and unionist/loyalist communities.It is this that makes the fixture one of the best in world football for atmosphere and passion
If by that you mean the moron wing of either side I would be in full agreement. It's a laughably moronic idea to define any part of your Irish republican (or other) political identity through the support of a soccer club over the water. The political element to the rivalry is rarely anything other than a complete embarrassment
Yeah, it's kinda sad when some one seeing you in a Celtic Jersey can often think of you as a Sorta hard line Republican, rather than some who supports a club in Scotland with strong Irish Connections. I know a lot of friends and acquaintances who are turned off by this and i can understand it.
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 31, 2015, 11:44:17 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on January 31, 2015, 11:14:59 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 31, 2015, 10:26:05 PM
10/11 Celtic -1? The only thing that can stop the Bhoys is complacency,and Deila will be lucky to survive should Rangers win. Like it or not,Celtic and Rangers represent nationalist/republican and unionist/loyalist communities.It is this that makes the fixture one of the best in world football for atmosphere and passion
If by that you mean the moron wing of either side I would be in full agreement. It's a laughably moronic idea to define any part of your Irish republican (or other) political identity through the support of a soccer club over the water. The political element to the rivalry is rarely anything other than a complete embarrassment
Yeah, it's kinda sad when some one seeing you in a Celtic Jersey can often think of you as a Sorta hard line Republican, rather than some who supports a club in Scotland with strong Irish Connections. I know a lot of friends and acquaintances who are turned off by this and i can understand it.
Feck really??
Do these people equate folk in Liverpool or man utd jerseys as thugs and thieves then?
Or people in Chelsea jerseys as national front racist nazis?
Prob not and it's all a load of media cobblers
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:49:43 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 31, 2015, 11:44:17 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on January 31, 2015, 11:14:59 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 31, 2015, 10:26:05 PM
10/11 Celtic -1? The only thing that can stop the Bhoys is complacency,and Deila will be lucky to survive should Rangers win. Like it or not,Celtic and Rangers represent nationalist/republican and unionist/loyalist communities.It is this that makes the fixture one of the best in world football for atmosphere and passion
If by that you mean the moron wing of either side I would be in full agreement. It's a laughably moronic idea to define any part of your Irish republican (or other) political identity through the support of a soccer club over the water. The political element to the rivalry is rarely anything other than a complete embarrassment
Yeah, it's kinda sad when some one seeing you in a Celtic Jersey can often think of you as a Sorta hard line Republican, rather than some who supports a club in Scotland with strong Irish Connections. I know a lot of friends and acquaintances who are turned off by this and i can understand it.
Feck really??
Do these people equate folk in Liverpool or man utd jerseys as thugs and thieves then?
Or people in Chelsea jerseys as national front racist nazis?
Prob not and it's all a load of media cobblers
Unlike wearing a Premiership Jersey, there is baggage with a Celtic Jersey! I don't like it, but it's a fact of life.
Quote from: T Fearon on January 31, 2015, 11:30:30 PM
Celtic represent the Irish community in the West of Scotland and globally and Rangers ditto the Unionist community.Nothing whatsoever wrong with that,both clubs have their Neanderthal supporters who are no worse than Chelsea's,Leeds,or English national team for example.
The political sectarian edge to he fixture marks it out,as does the political edge mark out Roma V Lazio. For the most part it is witty and humorous even if a small minority go overboard.A Rangers Director a few years ago described the Old Firm fans as 90 minute bigots.I wouldn't disagree with that.
Quote from: T Fearon on January 31, 2015, 10:26:05 PM
10/11 Celtic -1? The only thing that can stop the Bhoys is complacency,and Deila will be lucky to survive should Rangers win. Like it or not,Celtic and Rangers represent nationalist/republican and unionist/loyalist communities.It is this that makes the fixture one of the best in world football for atmosphere and passion
Bold claims. They certainly don't represent me.
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 01, 2015, 01:02:25 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:49:43 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on January 31, 2015, 11:44:17 PM
Quote from: whiskeysteve on January 31, 2015, 11:14:59 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 31, 2015, 10:26:05 PM
10/11 Celtic -1? The only thing that can stop the Bhoys is complacency,and Deila will be lucky to survive should Rangers win. Like it or not,Celtic and Rangers represent nationalist/republican and unionist/loyalist communities.It is this that makes the fixture one of the best in world football for atmosphere and passion
If by that you mean the moron wing of either side I would be in full agreement. It's a laughably moronic idea to define any part of your Irish republican (or other) political identity through the support of a soccer club over the water. The political element to the rivalry is rarely anything other than a complete embarrassment
Yeah, it's kinda sad when some one seeing you in a Celtic Jersey can often think of you as a Sorta hard line Republican, rather than some who supports a club in Scotland with strong Irish Connections. I know a lot of friends and acquaintances who are turned off by this and i can understand it.
Feck really??
Do these people equate folk in Liverpool or man utd jerseys as thugs and thieves then?
Or people in Chelsea jerseys as national front racist nazis?
Prob not and it's all a load of media cobblers
Unlike wearing a Premiership Jersey, there is baggage with a Celtic Jersey! I don't like it, but it's a fact of life.
Haven't come across that before but know there is something in what you are saying alright
In certain parts of Dublin and soccer jersey wearers - epl or scots prem etc - are seen to be the lower educated lower social classes ( or scangers as they are called - GAA jersey wearers are boggers)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:32:48 PM
Quote from: frostbit on January 31, 2015, 09:11:26 PM
Part of me wants Celtic to get chinned to shut up all these annoying Celtic men on Facebook - Sevco this, Newco that. They are actually calling it the New Firm lol.
Normally enjoy a pint in the Felons on a Sunday. Thank God I'm away to Dublin in the morning. It'll be full of tattooed fuckwits and middle aged Celtic-passionate men freeing Ireland with their Celtic tops using phrases like 'we' when referring to Celtic. f**k the f**k off.
Only thing is the other side are exactly the same. Blind in their hatred for each other.
You are completely wrong when you equate the supporters , teams and clubs
Celtic fans for example win the hearts of people abroad when they play there.
The old rangers teams fans abroad only used to clock up riots and arrests in each locality
Celtic would have some idiots in their support but there's no comparison in the volume compared to that of rangers
Amsterdam?? All clubs have twats... And for that reason you shouldn't rave one teams support over another's.... Far too many examples
Both clubs are as bad as each other imo
Quote from: gallsman on February 01, 2015, 01:15:18 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on January 31, 2015, 11:30:30 PM
Celtic represent the Irish community in the West of Scotland and globally and Rangers ditto the Unionist community.Nothing whatsoever wrong with that,both clubs have their Neanderthal supporters who are no worse than Chelsea's,Leeds,or English national team for example.
The political sectarian edge to he fixture marks it out,as does the political edge mark out Roma V Lazio. For the most part it is witty and humorous even if a small minority go overboard.A Rangers Director a few years ago described the Old Firm fans as 90 minute bigots.I wouldn't disagree with that.
Quote from: T Fearon on January 31, 2015, 10:26:05 PM
10/11 Celtic -1? The only thing that can stop the Bhoys is complacency,and Deila will be lucky to survive should Rangers win. Like it or not,Celtic and Rangers represent nationalist/republican and unionist/loyalist communities.It is this that makes the fixture one of the best in world football for atmosphere and passion
Bold claims. They certainly don't represent me.
Or me! My politics and beliefs don't tie up nicely with any soccer club strangely enough, although I am still looking. Closest so far is Wexford youths.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2015, 01:33:38 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:32:48 PM
Quote from: frostbit on January 31, 2015, 09:11:26 PM
Part of me wants Celtic to get chinned to shut up all these annoying Celtic men on Facebook - Sevco this, Newco that. They are actually calling it the New Firm lol.
Normally enjoy a pint in the Felons on a Sunday. Thank God I'm away to Dublin in the morning. It'll be full of tattooed fuckwits and middle aged Celtic-passionate men freeing Ireland with their Celtic tops using phrases like 'we' when referring to Celtic. f**k the f**k off.
Only thing is the other side are exactly the same. Blind in their hatred for each other.
You are completely wrong when you equate the supporters , teams and clubs
Celtic fans for example win the hearts of people abroad when they play there.
The old rangers teams fans abroad only used to clock up riots and arrests in each locality
Celtic would have some idiots in their support but there's no comparison in the volume compared to that of rangers
Amsterdam?? All clubs have t**ts... And for that reason you shouldn't rave one teams support over another's.... Far too many examples
Sorry I have to disagree with your Amsterdam example
- do you know what happened?
Celtic fans attacked by Ajax nazis and cops arrested a couple of Celts
Yes every club has a couple of idiots but for a city to award Celtic fans am accolade due to their wonderful behavior is unusual in soccer but typical of Celtic fans behavior on the road.
I've been to euro games myself - and places like Lyon , Barcelona were unhappy for the results, but memorable for the interaction and friendliness between rival fans.
So i can't accept your Amsterdam
Quote from: frostbit on February 01, 2015, 09:17:16 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on January 31, 2015, 11:32:48 PM
Quote from: frostbit on January 31, 2015, 09:11:26 PM
Part of me wants Celtic to get chinned to shut up all these annoying Celtic men on Facebook - Sevco this, Newco that. They are actually calling it the New Firm lol.
Normally enjoy a pint in the Felons on a Sunday. Thank God I'm away to Dublin in the morning. It'll be full of tattooed fuckwits and middle aged Celtic-passionate men freeing Ireland with their Celtic tops using phrases like 'we' when referring to Celtic. f**k the f**k off.
Only thing is the other side are exactly the same. Blind in their hatred for each other.
You are completely wrong when you equate the supporters , teams and clubs
Celtic fans for example win the hearts of people abroad when they play there.
The old rangers teams fans abroad only used to clock up riots and arrests in each locality
Celtic would have some idiots in their support but there's no comparison in the volume compared to that of rangers
I used to go over every few weeks when I was younger and was Celtic mad. And then I grew up.
I would say that the more bigoted and sectarian Celtic supporters were from Scotland. (The Scottish Flute band type). But I have saw lots and lots of examples of sectarianism and blind bigotry from Celtic supporters travelling from Ireland. Orange b**tards this, black b**tards that (not in the racist form it should be mentioned). Its not the songs i refer to actually, most are fine traditional Irish folk songs but some involve idiots putting their tops over their faces while pretending to fire AK47s. There are songs I have heard about the Ibrox disaster and the one about Davie Cooper which are vile and worst still you see younger kids singing. But its more about the sectarian undercurrent that exists. It isn't about football.
By the way, I am a Republican from West Belfast. Neither Celtic nor these supporters represent me.
With respect , I find that is common in the Belfast/east coast types
My uncle was secretary of Derry branch of donegal supporters clubs.
His family aren't republican . But many going in the buses he organized were and having been in them, know there was none of that sectarian stuff. Unless you count (silly chant-less) rebel songs as sectarian. I don't.
If you say 'one is as bad as the other' then you don't really have much experience if this.
Some of the fans might be - but Celtic fans like this are way out numbered by their counterparts and are a minuscule drop thankfully in the clubs support.
Again every club has kn**ker element and in England I believe it's worse with west ham , Liverpool, Man U , Chelsea , Leeds, Forrest being notoriously bad in the past
The scots flute bands are prob endemic of their environment. From talking to them and other catholic/Irish descendants - they say that they are treated in a more subtle manner of second class citizenship in Scotland - akin to to catholic/nationalist/working class/Irish in the six counties pre - gfa
I think they have a bigger problem actually. Their culture and facilities ( eg catholic schools) are being eroded. I forget most of the stuff I've read but it was somewhat fascinating.
Anyhow my point is, I can understand the scots flute bands reasons for bitterness but yeah it's prob not nice to see either perspective of that sectarianism.
For that reason I'd never go to a Celtic v rangers game again. Horrible to attend. I felt like the only guy in the Lisbon lions stand watching the actual match. Bizarre !
Was offered a ticket for today but declined.
The scots are mad.
You have got to separate those who latch onto the club for the wrong reasons (Celtic) and the club itself,founded by an Irish Christian Brother to provide meals for the poor and help the immigrant Irish to integrate into Glasgow and Scottish society,and went on to become a Scottish institution and Champions of Europe (under the reign of a Protestant manager).
That's the attraction of Celtic for me and I still think an Old Firm Derby is the best fixture on the planet! Was at the Man Utd Liverpool game in December and it was tame in comparison!
the harsh reality is its the best f**king fixture in football. I f**king love it. come on celtic get into the orange bastids. Yeoooo up the f**king raa.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 01, 2015, 11:37:03 AM
You have got to separate those who latch onto the club for the wrong reasons (Celtic) and the club itself,founded by an Irish Christian Brother to provide meals for the poor and help the immigrant Irish to integrate into Glasgow and Scottish society,and went on to become a Scottish institution and Champions of Europe (under the reign of a Protestant manager).
That's the attraction of Celtic for me and I still think an Old Firm Derby is the best fixture on the planet! Was at the Man Utd Liverpool game in December and it was tame in comparison!
You literally claimed above that Celtic represent nationalists and Ireland abroad. See the hypocrisy?!
Quote from: frostbit on February 01, 2015, 01:34:07 PM
The other crowd started singing the Billy Boys and I forgot how much I hate them. Up the Celts!!!!
This is the kind of thing I don't understand
It's just a song, a silly one at that
It has a nice catchy tune to be honest
But why go mental and hate 'them' when you hear it!!?
Must be that Belfast thing again
To be fair I know a few Celtic supporting Belfast 'republicans' and they are the ones that could give Celtic support and republicans the bad name. Scumbags.
Same crew support either Man U or Liverpool too but I don't hear the same label long of those clubs!
I don't support singing of political themed songs at Celtic games.One of Brother Walfrid's aims was to create a club that would unite communities,Scottish and Irish,giving people a common club to support,hence the choice of the name,Celtic,bridging both Irish and Scottish cultures.
Relationships between Celtic and Rangers were good and devoid of sectarianism until the influx of six county loyalists to the Govan shipyards and latched on to Rangers.
Celtic fans were singing about James McGrory and Paul McStay,rangers fans were singing about being up to their knees in Fenian blood and the famine. i would guess that very few Catholics were among the rangers fans today but thousands of Celtic fans are protestant, not that i give a shit about organised religion of any sort.
Two clubs with supporters representing all that is vile in human nature, drawing support from the lower echelons of each others societies, ( Quote ) their comforting conviction that their world make sense rests on their unlimited ability to ignore their own ignorance.
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on February 01, 2015, 04:56:01 PM
Two clubs which represent all that is vile in human nature, drawing support from the lower echelons of each others societies, ( Quote ) their comforting conviction that their world make sense rests on their unlimited ability to ignore their own ignorance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtOGqsffW_E
vile in human nature thats what we are. drawing support from the lower echolos of human society.
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on February 01, 2015, 04:56:01 PM
Two clubs which represent all that is vile in human nature, drawing support from the lower echelons of each others societies, ( Quote ) their comforting conviction that their world make sense rests on their unlimited ability to ignore their own ignorance.
I had the misfortune of being in Belfast city centre yesterday when the police closed the roads to let 3 or 4 blood and thunder orange bands through. No exaggeration, but the band members and marchers had to be the ugliest collection of souls that I had ever seen. These would be people with no hope in life, hence their only joy would be marching the main road and looking important in their military band uniform.
But to be fair, 24 hours later in the Athletic Grounds someone must have visited earlier with the ugly stick.
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 05:55:11 PM
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on February 01, 2015, 04:56:01 PM
Two clubs which represent all that is vile in human nature, drawing support from the lower echelons of each others societies, ( Quote ) their comforting conviction that their world make sense rests on their unlimited ability to ignore their own ignorance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtOGqsffW_E
vile in human nature thats what we are. drawing support from the lower echolos of human society.
He has a point.... Seems to be where they found fans like you.
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 01:30:34 PM
the harsh reality is its the best f**king fixture in football. I f**king love it. come on celtic get into the orange bastids. Yeoooo up the f**king raa.
Quote from: thebigfella on February 01, 2015, 06:11:43 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 05:55:11 PM
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on February 01, 2015, 04:56:01 PM
Two clubs which represent all that is vile in human nature, drawing support from the lower echelons of each others societies, ( Quote ) their comforting conviction that their world make sense rests on their unlimited ability to ignore their own ignorance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtOGqsffW_E
vile in human nature thats what we are. drawing support from the lower echolos of human society.
He has a point.... Seems to be where they found fans like you.
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 01:30:34 PM
the harsh reality is its the best f**king fixture in football. I f**king love it. come on celtic get into the orange bastids. Yeoooo up the f**king raa.
i fully supported the PIRA, I dont like orangism, i despise loyalists, I have a professional occupation, my wife is a protestant, I count her brothers among my closest friends in the world. your opinion means nothing to me. up the f**king raa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Sv60M6MfE
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on February 01, 2015, 04:56:01 PM
Two clubs which represent all that is vile in human nature, drawing support from the lower echelons of each others societies, ( Quote ) their comforting conviction that their world make sense rests on their unlimited ability to ignore their own ignorance.
That's your opinion
I believe you are completely incorrect with regard to Celtic fc
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 06:22:21 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 01, 2015, 06:11:43 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 05:55:11 PM
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on February 01, 2015, 04:56:01 PM
Two clubs which represent all that is vile in human nature, drawing support from the lower echelons of each others societies, ( Quote ) their comforting conviction that their world make sense rests on their unlimited ability to ignore their own ignorance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtOGqsffW_E
vile in human nature thats what we are. drawing support from the lower echolos of human society.
He has a point.... Seems to be where they found fans like you.
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 01:30:34 PM
the harsh reality is its the best f**king fixture in football. I f**king love it. come on celtic get into the orange bastids. Yeoooo up the f**king raa.
i fully supported the PIRA, I dont like orangism, i despise loyalists, I have a professional occupation, my wife is a protestant, I count her brothers among my closest friends in the world. your opinion means nothing to me. up the f**king raa.
Would you say up the f**king raa in front of your brothers-in-law?
Quote from: michaelg on February 01, 2015, 07:07:52 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 06:22:21 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 01, 2015, 06:11:43 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 05:55:11 PM
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on February 01, 2015, 04:56:01 PM
Two clubs which represent all that is vile in human nature, drawing support from the lower echelons of each others societies, ( Quote ) their comforting conviction that their world make sense rests on their unlimited ability to ignore their own ignorance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtOGqsffW_E
vile in human nature thats what we are. drawing support from the lower echolos of human society.
He has a point.... Seems to be where they found fans like you.
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 01:30:34 PM
the harsh reality is its the best f**king fixture in football. I f**king love it. come on celtic get into the orange bastids. Yeoooo up the f**king raa.
i fully supported the PIRA, I dont like orangism, i despise loyalists, I have a professional occupation, my wife is a protestant, I count her brothers among my closest friends in the world. your opinion means nothing to me. up the f**king raa.
Would you say up the f**king raa in front of your brothers-in-law?
why wouldnt i?
Seems to be a bad 'mix' of fans on the boat on the way back...... surely just jovial banter
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 07:14:53 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 01, 2015, 07:07:52 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 06:22:21 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 01, 2015, 06:11:43 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 05:55:11 PM
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on February 01, 2015, 04:56:01 PM
Two clubs which represent all that is vile in human nature, drawing support from the lower echelons of each others societies, ( Quote ) their comforting conviction that their world make sense rests on their unlimited ability to ignore their own ignorance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtOGqsffW_E
vile in human nature thats what we are. drawing support from the lower echolos of human society.
He has a point.... Seems to be where they found fans like you.
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 01:30:34 PM
the harsh reality is its the best f**king fixture in football. I f**king love it. come on celtic get into the orange bastids. Yeoooo up the f**king raa.
i fully supported the PIRA, I dont like orangism, i despise loyalists, I have a professional occupation, my wife is a protestant, I count her brothers among my closest friends in the world. your opinion means nothing to me. up the f**king raa.
Would you say up the f**king raa in front of your brothers-in-law?
why wouldnt i?
Because the IRA killed many inncoent protestants (and catholics) and it would be offensive.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 01, 2015, 07:18:14 PM
Seems to be a bad 'mix' of fans on the boat on the way back...... surely just jovial banter
f**k sake,i wish i was there, last time i was on the boat i kicked a hun down the stairs, and a down player was with me, oh the scandal, hard to beat thugerry. yeooooooooooooo up the raaaaaaa
Quote from: michaelg on February 01, 2015, 07:26:09 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 07:14:53 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 01, 2015, 07:07:52 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 06:22:21 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 01, 2015, 06:11:43 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 05:55:11 PM
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on February 01, 2015, 04:56:01 PM
Two clubs which represent all that is vile in human nature, drawing support from the lower echelons of each others societies, ( Quote ) their comforting conviction that their world make sense rests on their unlimited ability to ignore their own ignorance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtOGqsffW_E
vile in human nature thats what we are. drawing support from the lower echolos of human society.
He has a point.... Seems to be where they found fans like you.
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 01:30:34 PM
the harsh reality is its the best f**king fixture in football. I f**king love it. come on celtic get into the orange bastids. Yeoooo up the f**king raa.
i fully supported the PIRA, I dont like orangism, i despise loyalists, I have a professional occupation, my wife is a protestant, I count her brothers among my closest friends in the world. your opinion means nothing to me. up the f**king raa.
Would you say up the f**king raa in front of your brothers-in-law?
why wouldnt i?
Because the IRA killed many inncoent protestants (and catholics) and it would be offensive.
revolution has f**k all to do with religion.
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 07:34:11 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 01, 2015, 07:26:09 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 07:14:53 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 01, 2015, 07:07:52 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 06:22:21 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 01, 2015, 06:11:43 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 05:55:11 PM
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on February 01, 2015, 04:56:01 PM
Two clubs which represent all that is vile in human nature, drawing support from the lower echelons of each others societies, ( Quote ) their comforting conviction that their world make sense rests on their unlimited ability to ignore their own ignorance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtOGqsffW_E
vile in human nature thats what we are. drawing support from the lower echolos of human society.
He has a point.... Seems to be where they found fans like you.
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 01:30:34 PM
the harsh reality is its the best f**king fixture in football. I f**king love it. come on celtic get into the orange bastids. Yeoooo up the f**king raa.
i fully supported the PIRA, I dont like orangism, i despise loyalists, I have a professional occupation, my wife is a protestant, I count her brothers among my closest friends in the world. your opinion means nothing to me. up the f**king raa.
Would you say up the f**king raa in front of your brothers-in-law?
why wouldnt i?
Because the IRA killed many inncoent protestants (and catholics) and it would be offensive.
revolution has f**k all to do with religion.
Silly me. That would be why your recent posts have referred to huns, organge bastids etc etc.
Two clubs lower echelons of society all that is vile in human nature? Yes multi millionaire Rod Stewart is the lowest of the low as are other well to do fans of both clubs including politicians,movie stars etc.
Religion and politics should not be aired by Celtic or Rangers fans at games,I believe the reaction of the Rangers club to Tommy Burns death and last week when the Celtic charity foundation donated £10k to to MND Scotland to coincide with the benefit game at Ibrox for ex Rangers star Fernando Ricksen is more reflective of the true base of both Rangers and Celtic.
Quote from: michaelg on February 01, 2015, 07:43:16 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 07:34:11 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 01, 2015, 07:26:09 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 07:14:53 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 01, 2015, 07:07:52 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 06:22:21 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 01, 2015, 06:11:43 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 05:55:11 PM
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on February 01, 2015, 04:56:01 PM
Two clubs which represent all that is vile in human nature, drawing support from the lower echelons of each others societies, ( Quote ) their comforting conviction that their world make sense rests on their unlimited ability to ignore their own ignorance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtOGqsffW_E
vile in human nature thats what we are. drawing support from the lower echolos of human society.
He has a point.... Seems to be where they found fans like you.
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 01:30:34 PM
the harsh reality is its the best f**king fixture in football. I f**king love it. come on celtic get into the orange bastids. Yeoooo up the f**king raa.
i fully supported the PIRA, I dont like orangism, i despise loyalists, I have a professional occupation, my wife is a protestant, I count her brothers among my closest friends in the world. your opinion means nothing to me. up the f**king raa.
Would you say up the f**king raa in front of your brothers-in-law?
why wouldnt i?
Because the IRA killed many inncoent protestants (and catholics) and it would be offensive.
revolution has f**k all to do with religion.
Silly me. That would be why your recent posts have referred to huns, organge bastids etc etc.
michael, i dislike religion in all its forms. i despise orangism, i tolerate catholisism becauase i was born into it, i refer to rangers fans as huns because they are. i am a republican, i am an anarchist, i make no apologies for it. i dont care what you think about me, i am firm in the belief i am right.
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 07:59:00 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 01, 2015, 07:43:16 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 07:34:11 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 01, 2015, 07:26:09 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 07:14:53 PM
Quote from: michaelg on February 01, 2015, 07:07:52 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 06:22:21 PM
Quote from: thebigfella on February 01, 2015, 06:11:43 PM
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 05:55:11 PM
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on February 01, 2015, 04:56:01 PM
Two clubs which represent all that is vile in human nature, drawing support from the lower echelons of each others societies, ( Quote ) their comforting conviction that their world make sense rests on their unlimited ability to ignore their own ignorance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtOGqsffW_E
vile in human nature thats what we are. drawing support from the lower echolos of human society.
He has a point.... Seems to be where they found fans like you.
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 01:30:34 PM
the harsh reality is its the best f**king fixture in football. I f**king love it. come on celtic get into the orange bastids. Yeoooo up the f**king raa.
i fully supported the PIRA, I dont like orangism, i despise loyalists, I have a professional occupation, my wife is a protestant, I count her brothers among my closest friends in the world. your opinion means nothing to me. up the f**king raa.
Would you say up the f**king raa in front of your brothers-in-law?
why wouldnt i?
Because the IRA killed many inncoent protestants (and catholics) and it would be offensive.
revolution has f**k all to do with religion.
Silly me. That would be why your recent posts have referred to huns, organge bastids etc etc.
michael, i dislike religion in all its forms. i despise orangism, i tolerate catholisism becauase i was born into it, i refer to rangers fans as huns because they are. i am a republican, i am an anarchist, i make no apologies for it. i dont care what you think about me, i am firm in the belief i am right.
Fair enough. It just seems that some of your posts are quite contradictory. e.g. Dislike religion in all its forms and tolerate catholisism. Also, what do you have to do define yourself as an anarchist?
Michael, i was bought up in an ultra catholic household where my ma made us do the rosary every night, true bill, by the time i was 16 i wanted to f**king nail Jesus to the cross myself. the only conservative thing about me is my love of the gaa. i am anarchist in the fact me and the mrs live in a squat, we have dreadlocks, we attend every protest going, we built a school in uganda and we smoke weed every weekend.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 01, 2015, 07:48:04 PM
Two clubs lower echelons of society all that is vile in human nature? Yes multi millionaire Rod Stewart is the lowest of the low as are other well to do fans of both clubs including politicians,movie stars etc.
Religion and politics should not be aired by Celtic or Rangers fans at games,I believe the reaction of the Rangers club to Tommy Burns death and last week when the Celtic charity foundation donated £10k to to MND Scotland to coincide with the benefit game at Ibrox for ex Rangers star Fernando Ricksen is more reflective of the true base of both Rangers and Celtic.
Plenty of Celtic fans had their songs about David Murray too.
Quote from: gallsman on February 01, 2015, 09:02:03 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 01, 2015, 07:48:04 PM
Two clubs lower echelons of society all that is vile in human nature? Yes multi millionaire Rod Stewart is the lowest of the low as are other well to do fans of both clubs including politicians,movie stars etc.
Religion and politics should not be aired by Celtic or Rangers fans at games,I believe the reaction of the Rangers club to Tommy Burns death and last week when the Celtic charity foundation donated £10k to to MND Scotland to coincide with the benefit game at Ibrox for ex Rangers star Fernando Ricksen is more reflective of the true base of both Rangers and Celtic.
Plenty of Celtic fans had their songs about David Murray too.
[/quote
Never mind some of the ballbags who fall the Old Firm, that has to be one of the worst games of football I have seen in a long time. Utter pish.
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 01, 2015, 06:39:39 PM
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on February 01, 2015, 04:56:01 PM
Two clubs which represent all that is vile in human nature, drawing support from the lower echelons of each others societies, ( Quote ) their comforting conviction that their world make sense rests on their unlimited ability to ignore their own ignorance.
That's your opinion
I believe you are completely incorrect with regard to Celtic fc
LB, in bygone days you would have told him/it in no uncertain terms where to shove his/her head,
what's happened? have you attended some dale carnegie course to disguise honest expression?
Meanwhile, Ronny and his fistpumps
https://v.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/02A1348BD91173694517329928192_32b41f47c11.1.5.15273080200166554703.mp4?versionId=7MgOPsf9TtOIfzVjG87HNY0r.56oJTR2 (https://v.cdn.vine.co/r/videos/02A1348BD91173694517329928192_32b41f47c11.1.5.15273080200166554703.mp4?versionId=7MgOPsf9TtOIfzVjG87HNY0r.56oJTR2)
Quality was poor as the current Rangers team would struggle in the irish league,the pitch was a disgrace,and I honestly think Celtic took their foot of the pedal after the second goal.2 nil result suited everyone , Celtic coasting into the Final,Rangers avoiding humiliation etc.
But when playing feels were level,in the late 69s,the Celtic and Rangers teams would have won the English first division
Quote from: charlieTully on February 01, 2015, 05:55:11 PM
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on February 01, 2015, 04:56:01 PM
Two clubs which represent all that is vile in human nature, drawing support from the lower echelons of each others societies, ( Quote ) their comforting conviction that their world make sense rests on their unlimited ability to ignore their own ignorance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WtOGqsffW_E
vile in human nature thats what we are. drawing support from the lower echolos of human society.
Charlie Re your video link. I would consider many of these players and club officials to be professional and compassionate roll models, and not for one minute would I suggest they be associated with the dregs of society that they seem to attract as supporters.
I have edited my post to reflect what I really meant to say.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 01, 2015, 09:57:05 PM
Quality was poor as the current Rangers team would struggle in the irish league,the pitch was a disgrace,and I honestly think Celtic took their foot of the pedal after the second goal.2 nil result suited everyone , Celtic coasting into the Final,Rangers avoiding humiliation etc.
But when playing feels were level,in the late 69s,the Celtic and Rangers teams would have won the English first division
Quality was poor alright. Referee gave Rangers everything (as if asked to stop a land slide). There seemed to be an almost were grand at 2-0 after half time team talk among both teams. Both seemed relieved by the score-line. Rangers did not want to be hammered and Celtic wanted a safe lead and the avoidance of an embarrassment of losing to a thrown together Rangers side. I'd say the local Police were happy as well!
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 01, 2015, 10:09:05 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 01, 2015, 09:57:05 PM
Quality was poor as the current Rangers team would struggle in the irish league,the pitch was a disgrace,and I honestly think Celtic took their foot of the pedal after the second goal.2 nil result suited everyone , Celtic coasting into the Final,Rangers avoiding humiliation etc.
But when playing feels were level,in the late 69s,the Celtic and Rangers teams would have won the English first division
Quality was poor alright. Referee gave Rangers everything (as if asked to stop a land slide). There seemed to be an almost were grand at 2-0 after half time team talk among both teams. Both seemed relieved by the score-line. Rangers did not want to be hammered and Celtic wanted a safe lead and the avoidance of an embarrassment of losing to a thrown together Rangers side. I'd say the local Police were happy as well!
And the wives
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 01, 2015, 10:09:05 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 01, 2015, 09:57:05 PM
Quality was poor as the current Rangers team would struggle in the irish league,the pitch was a disgrace,and I honestly think Celtic took their foot of the pedal after the second goal.2 nil result suited everyone , Celtic coasting into the Final,Rangers avoiding humiliation etc.
But when playing feels were level,in the late 69s,the Celtic and Rangers teams would have won the English first division
Quality was poor alright. Referee gave Rangers everything (as if asked to stop a land slide). There seemed to be an almost were grand at 2-0 after half time team talk among both teams. Both seemed relieved by the score-line. Rangers did not want to be hammered and Celtic wanted a safe lead and the avoidance of an embarrassment of losing to a thrown together Rangers side. I'd say the local Police were happy as well!
Would agree with that
But thought the ref wasn't consistently bad - he just gave a good few decisions to rangers.
But def a 2-0 was as you say and for those reasons.
Thought he was a better ref than that clown Duffy last night gifting Donegal more than was correct!
Charlie you epitomise the typical Celtic supporter, a proud republican revolutionary willing to sell his soul to follow a foreign game, is it the sectarian element you enjoy or the actual football.
That raa you idolise is that the same raa that was willing to fight to the last drop of someone elses sons blood,that ended up with more touts than soldiers,after persuading many young men to fight and die for this noble cause of a united Ireland,decided to jump on the gravy train to a British financed parliament at stormont, honourable revolutionaries yeah your a typical proud Celt.
i fully supported the PIRA, I dont like orangism, i despise loyalists, I have a professional occupation, my wife is a protestant, I count her brothers among my closest friends in the world. your opinion means nothing to me. up the f**king raa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Sv60M6MfE
[/quote]
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on February 01, 2015, 11:28:18 PM
Charlie you epitomise the typical Celtic supporter, a proud republican revolutionary willing to sell his soul to follow a foreign game, is it the sectarian element you enjoy or the actual football.
That raa you idolise is that the same raa that was willing to fight to the last drop of someone elses sons blood,that ended up with more touts than soldiers,after persuading many young men to fight and die for this noble cause of a united Ireland,decided to jump on the gravy train to a British financed parliament at stormont, honourable revolutionaries yeah your a typical proud Celt.
i fully supported the PIRA, I dont like orangism, i despise loyalists, I have a professional occupation, my wife is a protestant, I count her brothers among my closest friends in the world. your opinion means nothing to me. up the f**king raa.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1Sv60M6MfE
[/quote]
baz i appreciate the rant but i remain unrepentant. were you cross typing that?
watched the game last night on bbc sport
jeez some drop in standard from the o neill/advocaat eras
rangers are a poor side
felt that both sides were content with the 2-0 scoreline
rangers are going to struggle ever to get back to where celtic are now
Quote from: naka on February 02, 2015, 11:57:44 AM
watched the game last night on bbc sport
jeez some drop in standard from the o neill/advocaat eras
rangers are a poor side
felt that both sides were content with the 2-0 scoreline
rangers are going to struggle ever to get back to where celtic are now
But not great though, Celtic that is.... Would they hack in in the English championship even?
As Peter Lawwell said at the AGM before Xmas,if Celtic were in EPL,with their worldwide fan base they'd be up there with Real Madrid,Barcelona.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 02, 2015, 06:34:31 PM
Quote from: naka on February 02, 2015, 11:57:44 AM
watched the game last night on bbc sport
jeez some drop in standard from the o neill/advocaat eras
rangers are a poor side
felt that both sides were content with the 2-0 scoreline
rangers are going to struggle ever to get back to where celtic are now
But not great though, Celtic that is.... Would they hack in in the English championship even?
No! But their a presently tailored to cope with a diminished Scottish league that has lost Hibs, Hearts and Rangers. There is no point paying over the odds for players you don't need in a below par league. The Purchase power depends on qualifying for Champions league group stages. Players will not be purchased if No CL football. The Irony is that these players are often needed for CL group stage qualification, but the club cannot afford to risk it. Scottish football has reached a crossroads and the only hope for it is mergers of smaller clubs and almost reinventing itself.
Quote from: frostbit on February 02, 2015, 07:52:45 PM
Nah. The economic hegemony that exists in world soccer is too powerful now for it to ever change. Manchester is about as far north as footballers are prepared to go now in England these days. It would take Celtic to be bought by some rich oligarch for them ever to compete with the big boys and sure where would that sit with Brother Walfrid values?
Brother Walfrid would have been a pragmatist I have no doubt.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 02, 2015, 07:47:22 PM
As Peter Lawwell said at the AGM before Xmas,if Celtic were in EPL,with their worldwide fan base they'd be up there with Real Madrid,Barcelona.
Such utter bollocks.
Quote from: gallsman on February 02, 2015, 08:12:38 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 02, 2015, 07:47:22 PM
As Peter Lawwell said at the AGM before Xmas,if Celtic were in EPL,with their worldwide fan base they'd be up there with Real Madrid,Barcelona.
Such utter bollocks.
The thing is. Most Irish people have Celtic as their Second team and support them that way because they are in Scotland and don't play English sides. How many would have them as their first or even Second in the EPL. They get dual support when in Scotland, this would be lost in the EPL?
It's not bollocks.For history,tradition,stadium and global fan base Celtic are on a par with Man Utd and any other English club.
A successful Celtic in the EPL would be the first choice of many supporters,all over the globe
Quote from: gallsman on February 02, 2015, 08:12:38 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 02, 2015, 07:47:22 PM
As Peter Lawwell said at the AGM before Xmas,if Celtic were in EPL,with their worldwide fan base they'd be up there with Real Madrid,Barcelona.
Such utter bollocks.
+1
He's deluded.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 02, 2015, 08:19:19 PM
It's not bollocks.For history,tradition,stadium and global fan base Celtic are on a par with Man Utd and any other English club.
Is this true? Have Celtic a large fan base in India, the Far East, Europe, usa etc? I know uk and Ireland.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 02, 2015, 08:23:38 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 02, 2015, 08:19:19 PM
It's not bollocks.For history,tradition,stadium and global fan base Celtic are on a par with Man Utd and any other English club.
Is this true? Have Celtic a large fan base in India, the Far East, Europe, usa etc? I know uk and Ireland.
South America?
Maybe, presumably with the Catholic element? But they have a fair few Catholic clubs of their own down there. I just don't see a lot of evidence of Celtic fans in those countries. Could be wrong.
They have numerous fan clubs in USA,Australia and elsewhere where large contingents of Scots have emigrated.Celtic are much bigger than the likes of Burnley,Swansea,QPR and a host of current EPL clubs.
I'd believe that alright. But you were talking about United, barca and real. That's slightly different. Celtic claim 9 million fans worldwide. United have about 600 million.
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 02, 2015, 08:59:48 PM
I'd believe that alright. But you were talking about United, barca and real. That's slightly different. Celtic claim 9 million fans worldwide. United have about 600 million.
Spot on AZ, I wouldn't deny Celtic their history or tradition but the size of their global fan base wouldn't touch the sides of the teams you have named or Liverpool amongst others..
Quote from: T Fearon on February 02, 2015, 08:56:53 PM
They have numerous fan clubs in USA,Australia and elsewhere where large contingents of Scots have emigrated.Celtic are much bigger than the likes of Burnley,Swansea,QPR and a host of current EPL clubs.
They have a huge fan base - and fans in countries that can afford club merchandise too!
Celtic won't get back up there until they join the English league. Currently not at English prem level, but moving up the leagues and getting the riches on offer would soon have them back at the top table and competing in Europe
Quote from: AZOffaly on February 02, 2015, 08:59:48 PM
I'd believe that alright. But you were talking about United, barca and real. That's slightly different. Celtic claim 9 million fans worldwide. United have about 600 million.
I guess this a Muppet style of sarcasm, worthy of a good chuckle and I should not be tempted to pour ridicule, scorn on the the 600m figure (actually 660m) supposedly following brand Man U with a fan like fervour,love and devotion.
Remember being in Nou Camp in 2005 for Barca V Valencia.Held up a Celtic shirt hoping to catch Larsson's eye during pre match warm up.A wee spanish man said "Ah Celtic of Glasgow!" Now how many of the EPL clubs jersies would he have recognised? 4? 5? 6 maximum?
Quote from: T Fearon on February 02, 2015, 11:02:30 PM
Remember being in Nou Camp in 2005 for Barca V Valencia.Held up a Celtic shirt hoping to catch Larsson's eye during pre match warm up.A wee spanish man said "Ah Celtic of Glasgow!" Now how many of the EPL clubs jersies would he have recognised? 4? 5? 6 maximum?
What does that prove? I'd recognise a River or Boca or Flamengo or Santos jersey if some lad had one. Huge clubs in huge countries. Doesn't mean they'll ever have the appeal of a United or Barca. You are delusional.
Aren't you the clever boy can recognise all those jerseys. Good on you fellow
Yawn. Away back with you to criticising long established, beloved tournaments for kids.
If Celtic are so well supported then where is all this merchandise money? Where are the huge kit deals? Some of you boys are fcukin nuts!
I see Rangers have signed 5 Newcastle reserves including Shane Ferguson from Derry.
It will be interesting to see what Mike Ashley intends to do with Rangers.
Quote from: gallsman on February 02, 2015, 11:43:16 PM
Yawn. Away back with you to criticising long established, beloved tournaments for kids.
I will, but none of takes away from the fact that you're a clever fellow
Fan base may have a small affect on the level of success in the EPL, but the lot of ye are delusional if you really think anything other than a bottomless pit of money with scant regard to profit or anything else is the key to success.
Sure look at the top 2teams FFS do yous really think they have a large world wide fan base?
At the same time,the relative riches of the Premiership will never make the likes of Burnley or Leicester successful,but it would make Celtic successful.Players would be attracted to the club.Even now,every player, even the biggest stars,want to play at Celtic Park on a Champions League match,to sample the best atmosphere in World Football.
Id say thats why most of them get into soccor alright.
Dont let them fool you Tony.. Just about the dough..
Quote from: T Fearon on February 03, 2015, 07:22:50 AM
At the same time,the relative riches of the Premiership will never make the likes of Burnley or Leicester successful,but it would make Celtic successful.Players would be attracted to the club.Even now,every player, even the biggest stars,want to play at Celtic Park on a Champions League match,to sample the best atmosphere in World Football.
No it wouldn't. The bottom line is that if you want to play for Celtic you have to live in Glasgow. No player in their right mind would choose that unless they're getting an absolute ransom for it... which Celtic can't and never will be fit to afford.
This nonsense always comes up and the same people come out with the same ifs, buts and maybes.
Why would the Football league and/or premier league want or need Celtic. As things currently stand they are seeing increasing TV money, maintaining crowds at all clubs and have a healthy relegation and promotion system that is seeing new teams moving between divisions all the time.
If Celtic entered the football league and worked their way up, it would take them years. Its not as if Football league clubs are rolling in TV money and Celtics European money would be gone. They'd be totally reliant on season income to pay the bills and that wouldn't get them too far. They would have to seriously gamble to make it into the top flight.
Celtic been who they are is all well and good but money talks and players will follow the money and the lifestyle. They will struggle to offer this to the players they will need.
And do you's really think that the famous Champions league nights would really happen again if they did manage to make it out of Scotland? ::)
I se News paper reports that there were a few Rangers fans hurt from Sunday including a 10 year old boy who has a fractured cheek bone from a Celtic fan throwing a bottle at a mini bus window. Another guy in an induced coma from a beating...WTF. These great Celtic fans ::). I'm a Celtic man and have been from 7 years of age but that's just sickening.
I know every side has their own scum bags but that's unacceptable...
Not condoning this in any way,but a Rangers fan trolled Kris Commins mocking the death of his still born child,and Scott Brown's sister who died with cancer
Quote from: T Fearon on February 03, 2015, 06:28:07 PM
Not condoning this in any way,but a Rangers fan trolled Kris Commins mocking the death of his still born child,and Scott Brown's sister who died with cancer
Yeah Tony I seen that earlier...wtf is wrong with some people. That's just disgusting
These people have no interest in football,just latch onto it for perverse reasons
How much does a ticket to a SPL game at Celtic?
Quote from: T Fearon on February 03, 2015, 06:28:07 PM
Not condoning this in any way,but a Rangers fan trolled Kris Commins mocking the death of his still born child,and Scott Brown's sister who died with cancer
You're not condoning it yet you feel the need to put them in the same sentence? If they were directly related, fair enough but they are just examples of the types of wankstains that follow both clubs. Just condemn without a 'but' in the sentence for once.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 03, 2015, 07:23:26 PM
These people have no interest in football,just latch onto it for perverse reasons
Plenty of genuine fans of course but there's no denying its a great environment for haters to hate and when the hate fuelled chanting starts, it seems a lot of these genuine fans run with the pack and legitimise these people from what you see posted ont internet.....hence why its a great place to be a hater
Bit like July 12th.I have no great problems with banter,or 90 minutes of bigotry even, it can be a release valve, but not violence under any circumstances.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 03, 2015, 09:35:32 PM
Bit like July 12th.I have no great problems with banter,or 90 minutes of bigotry even, it can be a release valve, but not violence under any circumstances.
release valve is good.
Celtic ticket with booking fee,around the £30 mark,but prices always hiked for Rangers games
Quote from: Bingo on February 03, 2015, 09:49:49 AM
This nonsense always comes up and the same people come out with the same ifs, buts and maybes.
Why would the Football league and/or premier league want or need Celtic. As things currently stand they are seeing increasing TV money, maintaining crowds at all clubs and have a healthy relegation and promotion system that is seeing new teams moving between divisions all the time.
If Celtic entered the football league and worked their way up, it would take them years. Its not as if Football league clubs are rolling in TV money and Celtics European money would be gone. They'd be totally reliant on season income to pay the bills and that wouldn't get them too far. They would have to seriously gamble to make it into the top flight.
Celtic been who they are is all well and good but money talks and players will follow the money and the lifestyle. They will struggle to offer this to the players they will need.
And do you's really think that the famous Champions league nights would really happen again if they did manage to make it out of Scotland? ::)
I can't see it happening myself, Celtic going south.
I'd much prefer a better quality SPL and with the demise of Rangers, a side effect of that has seen a rise in the quality of the other teams in the SPL. Even if Celtic's standard has dropped with inferior players replacing good player, there is a new closely fought competition to be the 2nd best team in the league. Ranger's demise has opened up a competitive door that didn't exist for 21 years.
For some strange reason, Scotland is not producing the same quality of player as in years gone by.
As regards club tradition, size and ethos, Celtic and Rangers would rank behind Liverpool and Man U of course but until 2005 would rank above most of the res in the epl. Previous to the Sky money seriously kicking in around 2005, both Rangers and Celtic were easily of a top 6 epl standard and what many reckon is that both would have gone on to bigger and better things given the same playing field,the epl.
ATM the best Celtic can aspire towards is to have an academy like Ajax and PSV in Holland, or Benfica and Porto in Portugal. where each season on average they make just as much income from transfers as from the CL, and somehow for celtic to manage to achieve that level of consistency in their club form.
Quote from: Bazil Douglas on February 01, 2015, 04:56:01 PM
Two clubs with supporters representing all that is vile in human nature, drawing support from the lower echelons of each others societies, ( Quote ) their comforting conviction that their world make sense rests on their unlimited ability to ignore their own ignorance.
I rest my case
Every club is the same. In fact you coming onto this thread to throw abuse at Celtic supporters are in the same category
Quote from: Nigel White on February 03, 2015, 11:38:27 PM
Every club is the same. In fact you coming onto this thread to throw abuse at Celtic supporters are in the same category
I would consider it an opinion not abuse.
I apologise for expressing such an opinion on Celtic & Rangers supporters, didn't realise it was a closed thread.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 03, 2015, 09:35:32 PM
Bit like July 12th.I have no great problems with banter,or 90 minutes of bigotry even, it can be a release valve, but not violence under any circumstances.
And a bit like the 12th of July, would the clubs rivalry survive if it wasn't for the bigotry? Is there enough genuine decent supporters that would be happy to get thing to point where it was just a sporting rivalry?
It is a sporting rivalry,with politico-religious undertones.I doubt when you have two clubs who have represented unionist/loyalist and catholic/nationalist communities in Scotland and Ireland for generations,that these undertones will ever be eradicated.Its like asking them to discard their core identities.
Nowadays a lot of the stuff is just harmless 90 minutes banter,things have improved enormously.You're always going to have dangerous loons and extremists,but they are not representative of the vast majority of Celtic and Rangers fans.
Of course the extreme loons are not representative of the majority but you have to admit, it's a great place for them to thrive?
Also think the rivalry between the clubs is being exploited by the people who are solely interested in making money from the bigotry. Taking it away would be bad for business
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/other-soccer/old-firm-violence-young-fan-10-bottled-and-teeth-knocked-out-while-father-of-four-kicked-unconscious-30963833.html
Quote from: fearbrags on February 04, 2015, 03:35:41 PM
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/other-soccer/old-firm-violence-young-fan-10-bottled-and-teeth-knocked-out-while-father-of-four-kicked-unconscious-30963833.html
Horrendus, and thats reading the hyperlink, cant face reading the article
Scum, take the sectarian hatred out of it and neither would be any bigger than hearts and hibs. attacking a 10 year old is disgraceful, ironic that he is a rangers supporter with a name like Keiran Duffy, unless i read it wrong.
Quote from: snoopdog on February 04, 2015, 04:29:50 PM
Scum, take the sectarian hatred out of it and neither would be any bigger than hearts and hibs. attacking a 10 year old is disgraceful, ironic that he is a rangers supporter with a name like Keiran Duffy, unless i read it wrong.
snoop read it carefully. They didn't attack a 10 year old boy, they threw a bottle at a mini bus which the 10 year old boy was sitting in by the window... That is not defence of it BTW as I've already commented earlier of what I thought of the pr**ks that carried this attack out.
It's funny - not in a ha ha kind of way - watching the Scottish media stoking up the furnaces of war before the game then engaging in some epic finger-wagging when people get hurt. It all sells papers so a win-win for them.
In any context,an Orange V Green clash is going to attract knuckle draggers.We in this part of the world should not indulge in pot-kettle-black hypocrisy of Celtic and Rangers.We have more than our fair share of similarly motivated loons here,we even vote for them!
Quote from: T Fearon on February 04, 2015, 07:24:04 PM
In any context,an Orange V Green clash is going to attract knuckle draggers.We in this part of the world should not indulge in pot-kettle-black hypocrisy of Celtic and Rangers.We have more than our fair share of similarly motivated loons here,we even vote for them!
This type of drunk fuelled wanton violence happens post match at most derbies and glasgow is no different to manchester or liverpool in this regard.
These drunk thugs, are not a part of the general football support who behave well.
Exactly.
A stupid random act of violence that could not be excused under any circumstances.
violence is not unique to celtic rangers games. A quick youtube search shows up any amount of violent incidents amongst fans of many sports. One doesn't have to look to far to find them within our own sport. No sectarian excuse there just the lowest common dominator? I'll not bother with links. Im sure the vast majority of posters don't have to think to hard to remember violent incidents within their own club or county.
Furthermore, Derry Catholic and former GAA player Shane Ferguson has been loaned to Rangers from Newcastle.Not as much as a whimper.That shows how much progress has been made,and both clubs Celtic and Rangers work closely together on anti sectarianism initiatives.
Quote from: illdecide on February 04, 2015, 04:39:11 PM
Quote from: snoopdog on February 04, 2015, 04:29:50 PM
Scum, take the sectarian hatred out of it and neither would be any bigger than hearts and hibs. attacking a 10 year old is disgraceful, ironic that he is a rangers supporter with a name like Keiran Duffy, unless i read it wrong.
snoop read it carefully. They didn't attack a 10 year old boy, they threw a bottle at a mini bus which the 10 year old boy was sitting in by the window... That is not defence of it BTW as I've already commented earlier of what I thought of the pr**ks that carried this attack out.
Ah so this wasn't an attack on 10 year olds, or boys, or football supporters, it was an attack on a bus. All those buses out there getting in the way of progress, why cant we all just get along.
Quote from: T Fearon on February 04, 2015, 11:26:00 PM
Furthermore, Derry Catholic and former GAA player Shane Ferguson has been loaned to Rangers from Newcastle.Not as much as a whimper.That shows how much progress has been made,and both clubs Celtic and Rangers work closely together on anti sectarianism initiatives.
Someone didn't like the move
(http://i.imgur.com/SZe90TH.png)
Quote from: angermanagement on February 02, 2015, 11:54:35 PM
I see Rangers have signed 5 Newcastle reserves including Shane Ferguson from Derry.
It will be interesting to see what Mike Ashley intends to do with Rangers.
Going to use them as the Newcastle B team to get his Newcastle players some playing time by the sounds of it. The Rangers manager saying this morning that all 5 loanees must play in every game if they're fit
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31145792
Rangers: Newcastle loan players must play if fit - Kenny McDowall
Rangers manager Kenny McDowall claims he has been told by the club that the five loan signings made from Newcastle must be in his starting XI if fit.
Midfielders Gael Bigirimana and Haris Vuckic, defenders Kevin Mbabu and Remie Streete and left-sided Northern Ireland cap Shane Ferguson joined on Monday.
McDowall says he has been told by chief executive Derek Llambias and football board chairman Sandy Easdale that the quintet must start every game.
Rangers play Raith Rovers on Sunday.
The Scottish Cup fifth-round match at Ibrox, which will be shown live on BBC One Scotland, is a break from the Championship for Rangers where they trail Hearts by 16 points in the race for the title and the automatic promotion place that comes with it.
McDowall, who took over from Ally McCoist on 19 January when he was placed on gardening leave, recently handed in his notice to resign, just as McCoist had.
He is now working a 12-month notice period.
More to follow.
This has to be the biggest insult of all.
Quote from: rrhf on February 05, 2015, 07:02:11 PM
This has to be the biggest insult of all.
He should a different one of them in goal each game for the craic.
Quote from: take_yer_points on February 05, 2015, 10:16:59 AM
Quote from: angermanagement on February 02, 2015, 11:54:35 PM
I see Rangers have signed 5 Newcastle reserves including Shane Ferguson from Derry.
It will be interesting to see what Mike Ashley intends to do with Rangers.
Going to use them as the Newcastle B team to get his Newcastle players some playing time by the sounds of it. The Rangers manager saying this morning that all 5 loanees must play in every game if they're fit
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/31145792
Rangers: Newcastle loan players must play if fit - Kenny McDowall
Rangers manager Kenny McDowall claims he has been told by the club that the five loan signings made from Newcastle must be in his starting XI if fit.
Midfielders Gael Bigirimana and Haris Vuckic, defenders Kevin Mbabu and Remie Streete and left-sided Northern Ireland cap Shane Ferguson joined on Monday.
McDowall says he has been told by chief executive Derek Llambias and football board chairman Sandy Easdale that the quintet must start every game.
Rangers play Raith Rovers on Sunday.
The Scottish Cup fifth-round match at Ibrox, which will be shown live on BBC One Scotland, is a break from the Championship for Rangers where they trail Hearts by 16 points in the race for the title and the automatic promotion place that comes with it.
McDowall, who took over from Ally McCoist on 19 January when he was placed on gardening leave, recently handed in his notice to resign, just as McCoist had.
He is now working a 12-month notice period.
More to follow.
Dysfunction like sectarianism only works if the system is isolated from the outside world and there is no outside influence. I remember talking to someone from Edinburgh about Scottish Provident, which was an insurance company. Catholics were barred from joining the company for over 100 years and the first catholic was taken on in 1992. But a few years later it was bought by a Spanish company run by catholics. ;)
Anyone coming in from outside needs too much time to adapt to the parameters of sectarianism and honestly who gives a f**k anyway?
If you are born in Tipp or Chelmsford you can go your whole life without looking down on Taigs/Huns (delete where appropriate).
The problem for the Old firm model is that Rangers is now in the orbit of someone from the real world and he just wants to get some results so if necessary he'll put 11 catholics on the team.
Football is a money thing now.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-31160187
Fr Michael Duffy: Baffled priest praised for Celtic move
A priest in New York has spoken of his surprise at receiving online messages congratulating him on signing for Celtic Football Club.
Fr Michael Duffy shares the same name as the young Derry City winger who has signed for the Scottish champions.
While the two men are different in many ways, the only thing that separates them on Twitter is an underscore.
"I started receiving congratulations messages from people in Ireland," Fr Duffy told BBC Radio Foyle.
"I was looking at their names and thought, my goodness, I don't know who these people are and why they're congratulating me.
"I finally found out that the other Michael Duffy signed with the Celtics - I've never in my life before been confused with a professional athlete, so it was a first for me.
"My Twitter handle is @michaelduffy while his is @michaelduffy_ with an underscore after it."
Fr Duffy admits he had never heard of Celtic or Derry City before the mix-up.
"I only watch soccer if it happens to be at the world cup or if someone else is watching it, but here in New York we have a lot of international priests coming to us from Ghana or South America, so I'd watch a game with them," he said.
However, he says he wishes the young footballer well and congratulated him on achieving his boyhood dream of playing for Celtic.
"We're proud to be Duffys today," he said.
So a Catholic Priest in New York who occasionally watches football had never heard of Celtic.
Worldwide fan base me arse!
Based on the name, reasonable to suggest he'd be Irish American too.
Don't worry though, once Celtic reach the premier league land of milk and honey their marketing budget will go through the roof and there won't be a priest about without a replica jersey...
Quote from: Franko on February 06, 2015, 02:18:30 PM
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-31160187
Fr Michael Duffy: Baffled priest praised for Celtic move
A priest in New York has spoken of his surprise at receiving online messages congratulating him on signing for Celtic Football Club.
Fr Michael Duffy shares the same name as the young Derry City winger who has signed for the Scottish champions.
While the two men are different in many ways, the only thing that separates them on Twitter is an underscore.
"I started receiving congratulations messages from people in Ireland," Fr Duffy told BBC Radio Foyle.
"I was looking at their names and thought, my goodness, I don't know who these people are and why they're congratulating me.
"I finally found out that the other Michael Duffy signed with the Celtics - I've never in my life before been confused with a professional athlete, so it was a first for me.
"My Twitter handle is @michaelduffy while his is @michaelduffy_ with an underscore after it."
Fr Duffy admits he had never heard of Celtic or Derry City before the mix-up.
"I only watch soccer if it happens to be at the world cup or if someone else is watching it, but here in New York we have a lot of international priests coming to us from Ghana or South America, so I'd watch a game with them," he said.
However, he says he wishes the young footballer well and congratulated him on achieving his boyhood dream of playing for Celtic.
"We're proud to be Duffys today," he said.
So a Catholic Priest in New York who occasionally watches football had never heard of Celtic.
Worldwide fan base me arse!
Wrong, a Catholic Priest in New York who rarely watches football
Quote from: Franko on February 06, 2015, 02:18:30 PM
So a Catholic Priest in New York who occasionally watches football had never heard of Celtic.
Worldwide fan base me arse!
This did make me laugh ;D
I finally found out that the other Michael Duffy signed with the Celtics
Celtic and Rangers are two sides of the same coin. Celtic fans gets confused over the identity of Michael Duffy. Rangers fans get confused over the identity of Mr Custard.
Celtic and Rangers are modern professional clubs with special respective attachments to two core communities.Neither club endorses sectarianism nowadays,and have done as much as could be expected of them to detach themselves from this.
I see that Celtic brought the young Rangers fan split with a bottle,along with his twin brother and their father to Lennoxtown to watch the Bhoys train on Friday,and take penalties etc.The father thanked the club for giving his boys a day to remember.
Rangers beaten by Raith Rovers in the Cup! :)
Quote from: From the Bunker on February 08, 2015, 07:23:27 PM
Rangers beaten by Raith Rovers in the Cup! :)
Not that big of a shock TBH...Two teams are fairly evenly matched...I've been saying it for months now but i think they'll go tits up again before Aug this year
Yeah, it was no real surprise. Both in the same tier League wise. Just that Rangers were playing at home. If Rangers don't get promoted this season they are fecked. And if they do get promoted they are fecked as well. It's Gas!
Quote from: T Fearon on February 08, 2015, 09:57:12 AM
I see that Celtic brought the young Rangers fan split with a bottle,along with his twin brother and their father to Lennoxtown to watch the Bhoys train on Friday,and take penalties etc.The father thanked the club for giving his boys a day to remember.
That's two days he'll never forget, getting ambushed by Celtic thugs and watching second rate footballers kick a ball about at training.......
Could be worse, they could have been taken to watch Antrim training, or worse still, to watch them playing
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 08, 2015, 10:09:59 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on February 08, 2015, 09:57:12 AM
I see that Celtic brought the young Rangers fan split with a bottle,along with his twin brother and their father to Lennoxtown to watch the Bhoys train on Friday,and take penalties etc.The father thanked the club for giving his boys a day to remember.
That's two days he'll never forget, getting ambushed by Celtic thugs and watching second rate footballers kick a ball about at training.......
Well they might have second rate players, but you got to admit they got some first class thugs.
And you'd know coming from a place where they'd fight with their shadow
Quote from: Nigel White on February 09, 2015, 07:06:50 PM
And you'd know coming from a place where they'd fight with their shadow
..... And lose !!!
:)
Oh the irony of English soccer club fans talking about soccer hooliganism and violence!!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on February 09, 2015, 11:56:42 PM
Quote from: Nigel White on February 09, 2015, 07:06:50 PM
And you'd know coming from a place where they'd fight with their shadow
..... And lose !!!
:)
Oh the irony of English soccer club fans talking about soccer hooliganism and violence!!
?
Quote from: Nigel White on February 09, 2015, 06:37:50 PM
Could be worse, they could have been taken to watch Antrim training, or worse still, to watch them playing
What to watch 25 guys giving up their free time in pursuit of a common goal. Working together as a team for no financial reward.
Demonstrating the traits of fair play and sportsmanship. Trying their best to represent their own families their own clubs and their county.
I for one would be happy to take anyone to watch Antrim at any level and still be proud to do so. To compare them with the mercenaries across the water and the clubs they represent is a non comparison and insulting to the Antrim lads.
Quote from: NAG1 on February 10, 2015, 11:29:29 AM
Quote from: Nigel White on February 09, 2015, 06:37:50 PM
Could be worse, they could have been taken to watch Antrim training, or worse still, to watch them playing
What to watch 25 guys giving up their free time in pursuit of a common goal. Working together as a team for no financial reward.
Demonstrating the traits of fair play and sportsmanship. Trying their best to represent their own families their own clubs and their county.
I for one would be happy to take anyone to watch Antrim at any level and still be proud to do so. To compare them with the mercenaries across the water and the clubs they represent is a non comparison and insulting to the Antrim lads.
Ach now Nag you do have something in common...you're both crap at what you do...lol. here I believe he's only pulling your chain. You couldn't compare any Gael to them useless hoors...joke with a we dig
Quote from: illdecide on February 10, 2015, 12:00:01 PM
Quote from: NAG1 on February 10, 2015, 11:29:29 AM
Quote from: Nigel White on February 09, 2015, 06:37:50 PM
Could be worse, they could have been taken to watch Antrim training, or worse still, to watch them playing
What to watch 25 guys giving up their free time in pursuit of a common goal. Working together as a team for no financial reward.
Demonstrating the traits of fair play and sportsmanship. Trying their best to represent their own families their own clubs and their county.
I for one would be happy to take anyone to watch Antrim at any level and still be proud to do so. To compare them with the mercenaries across the water and the clubs they represent is a non comparison and insulting to the Antrim lads.
Ach now Nag you do have something in common...you're both crap at what you do...lol. here I believe he's only pulling your chain. You couldn't compare any Gael to them useless hoors...joke with a we dig
Yeah maybe illdecide and I bit fair enough, but just never like to see Gaels getting run down even for comedy purposes.
Do not watch this if you have a cracked rib.
Español televisión discusión sobre fútbol (aka Spanish Rangers video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMF5RnCelFE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMF5RnCelFE)
So South African businessman Dave King has succeeded in being voted on to the board of The Rangers International Football Club at today's extraordinary general meeting.
Will this bring a bright new dawn for the 3 year old Glasgow club or will all money problems at the club prove too difficult for Mr King & friends?
Interesting times ahead at Ibrox.
(https://i.imgflip.com/iia2j.jpg)
Rangers Drawing with bottom placed Livingston yesterday has put a real dent in their promotion bid. Hearts are as good as promoted, Hibs look to be good to finish second. So Rangers are looking at 3rd at the moment. The champion are directly promoted to the Premiership, swapping places with the bottom club of Premiership. The clubs finishing 2nd (Hibs), 3rd (Rangers) and 4th (Queen of the South/Falkirk) then enter the two-legged Premiership play-off. The 3rd-placed club plays the 4th-placed club, with the winner then playing the 2nd-placed club. The winner of that tier then plays against the 11th-placed Premiership club (Motherwell).
So at the moment Rangers at the end of the season will have to beat Queen of the South/Falkirk, then Hibernian and then Motherwell to gain promotion. Great Fun!
Quote from: From the Bunker on March 15, 2015, 12:26:56 PM
Rangers Drawing with bottom placed Livingston yesterday has put a real dent in their promotion bid. Hearts are as good as promoted, Hibs look to be good to finish second. So Rangers are looking at 3rd at the moment. The champion are directly promoted to the Premiership, swapping places with the bottom club of Premiership. The clubs finishing 2nd (Hibs), 3rd (Rangers) and 4th (Queen of the South/Falkirk) then enter the two-legged Premiership play-off. The 3rd-placed club plays the 4th-placed club, with the winner then playing the 2nd-placed club. The winner of that tier then plays against the 11th-placed Premiership club (Motherwell).
So at the moment Rangers at the end of the season will have to beat Queen of the South/Falkirk, then Hibernian and then Motherwell to gain promotion. Great Fun!
I read they are thinking of introducing a 16 team Premier league next season in Scotland. That will sort out the *cough* issue...
That's interesting. I thought 2nd place was auto promo as well like south of the border. Why the big drama about needing to beat Hibs to 2nd if it's just for a play off spot anyway?
Quote from: under the bar on March 17, 2015, 10:24:29 AM
That's interesting. I thought 2nd place was auto promo as well like south of the border. Why the big drama about needing to beat Hibs to 2nd if it's just for a play off spot anyway?
2nd plays the winner of 3rd and 4th for right to go into the promotion/relegation playoff. Not getting second means another round required.
Quote from: gallsman on March 17, 2015, 02:14:56 PM
Quote from: under the bar on March 17, 2015, 10:24:29 AM
That's interesting. I thought 2nd place was auto promo as well like south of the border. Why the big drama about needing to beat Hibs to 2nd if it's just for a play off spot anyway?
2nd plays the winner of 3rd and 4th for right to go into the promotion/relegation playoff. Not getting second means another round required.
All games to be held at Ibrox and Hugh Dallas coming out of retirement to ref...
Alloa. PMSL.
Stuart McCall is the man for the job.
Great start for McCall,unbeaten so far ;D
Scottish Premiership
The 12 clubs play 38 matches, with a split into a top and bottom six after 33 games. At the end of the season, the bottom club is relegated while the club in 11th place face the Championship play-off winners over two legs.
Scottish Championship
The 10 clubs play 36 matches. The champions are promoted to the Premiership and clubs in 2nd, 3rd and 4th enter two-legged play-offs. The winner of 4th v 3rd plays 2nd, with the winner of that tie up against the club finishing 11th in the Premiership. The bottom club is automatically relegated and the 9th-placed club goes into a play-off with the 2nd, 3rd and 4th placed clubs from the League One.
Celtic win the league cup and the Celtic thread is nowhere to be seen.
Meanwhile the Rangers thread is maintaining it's position on the front page.
So are you boys about supporting Celtic or having a go at Rangers? ::)
So the teams that finish 3rd and 4th have to win three two legged playoffs to get promoted? Minefield. I've seen suggestions Kingco might take administration now rather than later when it would prove more costly.
Quote from: StephenC on March 18, 2015, 09:09:51 AM
Celtic win the league cup and the Celtic thread is nowhere to be seen.
Meanwhile the Rangers thread is maintaining it's position on the front page.
So are you boys about supporting Celtic or having a go at Rangers? ::)
I do not support Celtic - would love to see Hibs end a 113 year wait for the Scottish Cup.. I like having a go at Rangers, which I find to be a fascinating saga with lessons for the entire world of football and professional sport.
Quote from: StephenC on March 18, 2015, 09:09:51 AM
Celtic win the league cup and the Celtic thread is nowhere to be seen.
Meanwhile the Rangers thread is maintaining it's position on the front page.
So are you boys about supporting Celtic or having a go at Rangers? ::)
They are as obsessed as the Man United fans are about Liverpool..
Quote from: laoislad on March 18, 2015, 10:32:43 AM
Quote from: StephenC on March 18, 2015, 09:09:51 AM
Celtic win the league cup and the Celtic thread is nowhere to be seen.
Meanwhile the Rangers thread is maintaining it's position on the front page.
So are you boys about supporting Celtic or having a go at Rangers? ::)
They are as obsessed as the Man United fans are about Liverpool..
Says a Liverpool fan about United fan without any prior mention ;)
Quote from: NAG1 on March 18, 2015, 10:39:35 AM
Quote from: laoislad on March 18, 2015, 10:32:43 AM
Quote from: StephenC on March 18, 2015, 09:09:51 AM
Celtic win the league cup and the Celtic thread is nowhere to be seen.
Meanwhile the Rangers thread is maintaining it's position on the front page.
So are you boys about supporting Celtic or having a go at Rangers? ::)
They are as obsessed as the Man United fans are about Liverpool..
Says a Liverpool fan about United fan without any prior mention ;)
(http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/483/894/463.jpg)
Meanwhile in the Rangers game...
https://twitter.com/tsbible/status/579650880787619840
So Rangers play Queen of the South This Saturday and the following Sunday in the Quarter final promotion playoff. Will they do it and get promotion?. Rangers are 11/4 to beat QOTS, Hibs and Motherwell!
A very tall order.
Given that they are complete shite................................ Yes.
Quote from: stew on May 05, 2015, 12:05:24 AM
Given that they are complete shite................................ Yes.
As the famous Rangers fan Marty Pellow sang "I'll get by with a little help from my friends"...
DOB refs, do your stuff or face expulsion from the lodge.
On that note, where would you find the odds on Rangers being given a penalty in each of the 3 ties??
Quote from: Over the Bar on May 05, 2015, 11:36:56 AM
On that note, where would you find the odds on Rangers being given a penalty in each of the 3 ties??
Bookies won't take that bet ;D
Quote from: foxcommander on May 05, 2015, 04:41:19 AM
Quote from: stew on May 05, 2015, 12:05:24 AM
Given that they are complete shite................................ Yes.
As the famous Rangers fan Marty Pellow sang "I'll get by with a little help from my friends"...
DOB refs, do your stuff or face expulsion from the lodge.
I'd say that there is an element of truth in this!!
Add the 5 loan gifts that Newcastle gave ranjers to assist and boost their playoff chances - these will ( if fit) be a huge benefit to the promotion push!
Quote from: foxcommander on May 05, 2015, 04:41:19 AM
Quote from: stew on May 05, 2015, 12:05:24 AM
Given that they are complete shite................................ Yes.
As the famous Rangers fan Marty Pellow sang "I'll get by with a little help from my friends"...
DOB refs, do your stuff or face expulsion from the lodge.
was he not a Clydebank supporter?
Didn't Wet Wet Wet sponsor Clydebank? I'd say a lot of people in Scotland support Celtic or Rangers but have a 'soft spot' for the local club.
Quote from: JoG2 on May 05, 2015, 02:53:26 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 05, 2015, 04:41:19 AM
Quote from: stew on May 05, 2015, 12:05:24 AM
Given that they are complete shite................................ Yes.
As the famous Rangers fan Marty Pellow sang "I'll get by with a little help from my friends"...
DOB refs, do your stuff or face expulsion from the lodge.
was he not a Clydebank supporter?
All members of the group were supposed ranjers supporters - with (keyboardist?) Cunningham I think the name was who supposedly made disparaging remarks about Catholics at some point...
Quote from: JoG2 on May 05, 2015, 02:53:26 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 05, 2015, 04:41:19 AM
Quote from: stew on May 05, 2015, 12:05:24 AM
Given that they are complete shite................................ Yes.
As the famous Rangers fan Marty Pellow sang "I'll get by with a little help from my friends"...
DOB refs, do your stuff or face expulsion from the lodge.
was he not a Clydebank supporter?
I'm pretty sure he is a Rangers fan. I think he's trying to distance himself a little bit these days to appeal to audiences.
Good singer all the same.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rangers_F.C._supporters
He's got some good company in there!
Looks like they're destined for another season in the Championship after a 3 1 hammering at home to Motherwell
Quote from: foxcommander on May 05, 2015, 03:33:08 PM
Quote from: JoG2 on May 05, 2015, 02:53:26 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on May 05, 2015, 04:41:19 AM
Quote from: stew on May 05, 2015, 12:05:24 AM
Given that they are complete shite................................ Yes.
As the famous Rangers fan Marty Pellow sang "I'll get by with a little help from my friends"...
DOB refs, do your stuff or face expulsion from the lodge.
was he not a Clydebank supporter?
I'm pretty sure he is a Rangers fan. I think he's trying to distance himself a little bit these days to appeal to audiences.
Good singer all the same.
Did he not once say that his hero was Michael Stone?
Ha ha ha, hee hee hee
Rangers 1 Motherwell three
Rangers? G lads you cant even get the teams name right lol
Quote from: Wildweasel74 on May 28, 2015, 11:41:42 PM
Rangers? G lads you cant even get the teams name right lol
Sevco not Rankers!
There's no away goals rule in the play-offs. Going by the last 30 mons of last night's game I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Rangers winning the return leg 2-0 or 3-0.
Nah can't see them winning 3-0 at Motherwell TBH. I was sort of looking forward to playing them next year but that now looks unlikely.
Quote from: Over the Bar on May 29, 2015, 09:30:03 AM
There's no away goals rule in the play-offs. Going by the last 30 mons of last night's game I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Rangers winning the return leg 2-0 or 3-0.
Hopefully.
Quote from: laoislad on May 29, 2015, 11:34:02 AM
Quote from: Over the Bar on May 29, 2015, 09:30:03 AM
There's no away goals rule in the play-offs. Going by the last 30 mons of last night's game I wouldn't be at all surprised to see Rangers winning the return leg 2-0 or 3-0.
Hopefully.
Hopefully not!
Quote from: illdecide on May 29, 2015, 11:33:14 AM
Nah can't see them winning 3-0 at Motherwell TBH. I was sort of looking forward to playing them next year but that now looks unlikely.
You never know, what with Scottish refs and their propensity to favour the Huns cos that's what they're told to do by the powers that be.I don't really trust Motherwell to do this (I hope I'm wrong) for they have always bent over and taken it from Rangers... always
if i am not mistaken, hibs were in a similar position after the 1st leg last year so you never know.
interesting though that motherwell finally get a win over rangers when mccall is no longer their manager.
Quote from: clarshack on May 29, 2015, 04:45:06 PM
if i am not mistaken, hibs were in a similar position after the 1st leg last year so you never know.
interesting though that motherwell finally get a win over rangers when mccall is no longer their manager.
You are correct, Hibs won 2-0 away to Hamilton only to lose the home leg 2-0 and go out on penalties. Still, you'd rather be in Motherwell's brogues.
Quote from: red hander on May 29, 2015, 04:41:53 PM
Quote from: illdecide on May 29, 2015, 11:33:14 AM
Nah can't see them winning 3-0 at Motherwell TBH. I was sort of looking forward to playing them next year but that now looks unlikely.
You never know, what with Scottish refs and their propensity to favour the Huns cos that's what they're told to do by the powers that be.I don't really trust Motherwell to do this (I hope I'm wrong) for they have always bent over and taken it from Rangers... always
That's what it is after all this time... All the referees are huns!! Makes soooooo much sense now... Grow da fcuk up
Quote from: clarshack on May 29, 2015, 04:45:06 PM
if i am not mistaken, hibs were in a similar position after the 1st leg last year so you never know.
interesting though that motherwell finally get a win over rangers when mccall is no longer their manager.
[/b]
Motherwell hadn't won at Ibrox for 18 years, McCall was still a Rangers player but as long as it suits the Celtic supporters myth that everyone lies down to Rangers don't let the truth get in the way.
Quote from: angermanagement on May 30, 2015, 12:59:25 AM
Quote from: clarshack on May 29, 2015, 04:45:06 PM
if i am not mistaken, hibs were in a similar position after the 1st leg last year so you never know.
interesting though that motherwell finally get a win over rangers when mccall is no longer their manager.
[/b]
Motherwell hadn't won at Ibrox for 18 years, McCall was still a Rangers player but as long as it suits the Celtic supporters myth that everyone lies down to Rangers don't let the truth get in the way.
While I don't agree with the McCall comment - there is an element of truth in that clubs more so than players lie down to rangers.
If you don't understand this or don't understand that most match officials would be rangers minded at least - -as an earlier poster didn't seem to understand - then you maybe haven't seen the Scottish game at close quarters. Why these surprise people actually surprise me!
It's no prob for the same kinds of folk to shout similar accusations about Dublin in Gaelic football.
We have seen state sponsored collusion in the six counties a couple of decades ago!
Scotland's team is Rangers. Apart from the bastions in independence like Aberdeen or Edinburgh or Dundee - everyone else supports their local side but will have as big a passion for rangers or Celtic as well ( about 75:25).
That's the way things are.
The other big clubs from locations mentioned earlier - they hate Celtic and rangers- actually from what I'm told by friends who are fans of these clubs - they utterly despise rangers!
There is no comparison between Celtic and rangers. There are some decent enough rangers fans but there are a huge amount of Huns - sectarian sc**bag spastics.
I hope Motherwell win as the spl is a happier ( but cash poorer) place without the spastic Hun hoards.
Don't hold back son
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2015, 09:49:30 AM
Don't hold back son
It wasn't meant to sound like a rant - but just my observations on Scottish soccer in the 20+ years I've been going over to games
Scotland is actually developing in the opposite way to the six counties . In the 6 counties apathy following the 40 years of warfare has crept in and people are in general losing their high levels of pure hatred for the other side. It's prob a big dislike now down from hatred. Though pockets of partisans remain! Mostly east coast if not just greater Belfast.
Scotland seems to be going the other way with more division between native scots wasps people from historically Irish and foreign heritage.
Hopefully the snp thing will unite rather than divide but I'm not sure it will. If Scotland ever got independence I would expect the place to get worse though!
IMO
I know you are a die hard hurling man mr2 and dislike Celtic - and knowing a good few Celtic fans from your neck of the woods I'd understand your perspective. Slightly knackery folk.
However nothing in comparison to the hun spastics I have encountered on my travels.
You'd have to think with Rangers, Hearts and Hibs in the second tier this season that it was good for Scottish football as it spread the wealth to the lesser supported clubs. Attendances were up 320% in the Championship. While the Premiership was only down 15%. The only way forward really for Scottish football is to amalgamate a lot of these semi-professional clubs. As well as that Dundee and Edinburgh having two clubs wastes so much resources. But you won't understandably change that, tradition and loyalty are hard to change.
http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/avesco.htm (http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/avesco.htm)
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 30, 2015, 12:44:17 PM
You'd have to think with Rangers, Hearts and Hibs in the second tier this season that it was good for Scottish football as it spread the wealth to the lesser supported clubs. Attendances were up 320% in the Championship. While the Premiership was only down 15%. The only way forward really for Scottish football is to amalgamate a lot of these semi-professional clubs. As well as that Dundee and Edinburgh having two clubs wastes so much resources. But you won't understandably change that, tradition and loyalty are hard to change.
http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/avesco.htm (http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn/avesco.htm)
Can't disagree with any of that. Must mean I agree!
Also think that at least Celtic should go to English league and prob will eventually.
Then they leave a second team to play in Scottish league ( bit like barca and barca b teams in top two Spanish divisions !)
Quote from: lynchbhoy on May 30, 2015, 10:38:12 AM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2015, 09:49:30 AM
Don't hold back son
It wasn't meant to sound like a rant - but just my observations on Scottish soccer in the 20+ years I've been going over to games
Scotland is actually developing in the opposite way to the six counties . In the 6 counties apathy following the 40 years of warfare has crept in and people are in general losing their high levels of pure hatred for the other side. It's prob a big dislike now down from hatred. Though pockets of partisans remain! Mostly east coast if not just greater Belfast.
Scotland seems to be going the other way with more division between native scots wasps people from historically Irish and foreign heritage.
Hopefully the snp thing will unite rather than divide but I'm not sure it will. If Scotland ever got independence I would expect the place to get worse though!
IMO
I know you are a die hard hurling man mr2 and dislike Celtic - and knowing a good few Celtic fans from your neck of the woods I'd understand your perspective. Slightly knackery folk.
However nothing in comparison to the hun spastics I have encountered on my travels.
I get it I understand the deep rooted hatred by Rangers fans, feck I worked in the Shipyard for over 12 years so I've seen that hatred firsthand. Its vile and disturbing and doesn't seem to be getting any better but..... Christ its hard to listen to the conspiracy theories that fly about... The SPL is a poorer league without Rangers in it on terms of competition to celtic
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2015, 12:13:39 AM
Quote from: red hander on May 29, 2015, 04:41:53 PM
Quote from: illdecide on May 29, 2015, 11:33:14 AM
Nah can't see them winning 3-0 at Motherwell TBH. I was sort of looking forward to playing them next year but that now looks unlikely.
You never know, what with Scottish refs and their propensity to favour the Huns cos that's what they're told to do by the powers that be.I don't really trust Motherwell to do this (I hope I'm wrong) for they have always bent over and taken it from Rangers... always
That's what it is after all this time... All the referees are huns!! Makes soooooo much sense now... Grow da fcuk up
Ack look at the history, it's as obvious as the nose on yer face, unless you lost yer nose in an industrial accident in all those years in the shipyard
Quote from: red hander on May 30, 2015, 07:06:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2015, 12:13:39 AM
Quote from: red hander on May 29, 2015, 04:41:53 PM
Quote from: illdecide on May 29, 2015, 11:33:14 AM
Nah can't see them winning 3-0 at Motherwell TBH. I was sort of looking forward to playing them next year but that now looks unlikely.
You never know, what with Scottish refs and their propensity to favour the Huns cos that's what they're told to do by the powers that be.I don't really trust Motherwell to do this (I hope I'm wrong) for they have always bent over and taken it from Rangers... always
That's what it is after all this time... All the referees are huns!! Makes soooooo much sense now... Grow da fcuk up
Ack look at the history, it's as obvious as the nose on yer face, unless you lost yer nose in an industrial accident in all those years in the shipyard
I'm not blinkered either, that's why I asked the question, are all the referees huns and supporters of rangers??
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2015, 07:31:13 PM
Quote from: red hander on May 30, 2015, 07:06:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2015, 12:13:39 AM
Quote from: red hander on May 29, 2015, 04:41:53 PM
Quote from: illdecide on May 29, 2015, 11:33:14 AM
Nah can't see them winning 3-0 at Motherwell TBH. I was sort of looking forward to playing them next year but that now looks unlikely.
You never know, what with Scottish refs and their propensity to favour the Huns cos that's what they're told to do by the powers that be.I don't really trust Motherwell to do this (I hope I'm wrong) for they have always bent over and taken it from Rangers... always
That's what it is after all this time... All the referees are huns!! Makes soooooo much sense now... Grow da fcuk up
Ack look at the history, it's as obvious as the nose on yer face, unless you lost yer nose in an industrial accident in all those years in the shipyard
I'm not blinkered either, that's why I asked the question, are all the referees huns and supporters of rangers??
Cmon, there is something going on there, it can't be a conspiracy theory the shit has happened, look at it with a neutral eye , it's obvious
Quote from: red hander on May 30, 2015, 08:38:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2015, 07:31:13 PM
Quote from: red hander on May 30, 2015, 07:06:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2015, 12:13:39 AM
Quote from: red hander on May 29, 2015, 04:41:53 PM
Quote from: illdecide on May 29, 2015, 11:33:14 AM
Nah can't see them winning 3-0 at Motherwell TBH. I was sort of looking forward to playing them next year but that now looks unlikely.
You never know, what with Scottish refs and their propensity to favour the Huns cos that's what they're told to do by the powers that be.I don't really trust Motherwell to do this (I hope I'm wrong) for they have always bent over and taken it from Rangers... always
That's what it is after all this time... All the referees are huns!! Makes soooooo much sense now... Grow da fcuk up
Ack look at the history, it's as obvious as the nose on yer face, unless you lost yer nose in an industrial accident in all those years in the shipyard
I'm not blinkered either, that's why I asked the question, are all the referees huns and supporters of rangers??
Cmon, there is something going on there, it can't be a conspiracy theory the shit has happened, look at it with a neutral eye , it's obvious
Well they didn't win the league this year and struggling to with the playoffs... Surely they should have won the league or at least beat Motherwell.... Anyway well done on winning 4 in a row its an amazing feat considering how Celtic are up against it from the SFA and all the hun referee's
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2015, 09:35:02 PM
Quote from: red hander on May 30, 2015, 08:38:07 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2015, 07:31:13 PM
Quote from: red hander on May 30, 2015, 07:06:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2015, 12:13:39 AM
Quote from: red hander on May 29, 2015, 04:41:53 PM
Quote from: illdecide on May 29, 2015, 11:33:14 AM
Nah can't see them winning 3-0 at Motherwell TBH. I was sort of looking forward to playing them next year but that now looks unlikely.
You never know, what with Scottish refs and their propensity to favour the Huns cos that's what they're told to do by the powers that be.I don't really trust Motherwell to do this (I hope I'm wrong) for they have always bent over and taken it from Rangers... always
That's what it is after all this time... All the referees are huns!! Makes soooooo much sense now... Grow da fcuk up
Ack look at the history, it's as obvious as the nose on yer face, unless you lost yer nose in an industrial accident in all those years in the shipyard
I'm not blinkered either, that's why I asked the question, are all the referees huns and supporters of rangers??
Cmon, there is something going on there, it can't be a conspiracy theory the shit has happened, look at it with a neutral eye , it's obvious
Well they didn't win the league this year and struggling to with the playoffs... Surely they should have won the league or at least beat Motherwell.... Anyway well done on winning 4 in a row its an amazing feat considering how Celtic are up against it from the SFA and all the hun referee's
It's not quite the conspiracy that some make out but if you have been paying attention over the years it's fairly obv the amount of partisan rangers refs and linesmen out there!!
Refs make mistakes but ... The evidence would indicate the truth is somewhere in between conspiracy and nothing happening!
The scots cup semi final was an example! V bad mistake the officials all missed the blatant handball!
But we won't see the return of this kind of officiation as a norm until rainjers are back in the spl!
It won
Weird that Motherwell v Rangers has not been covered by Football365 live http://live.skysports.com/Live/football365/live.html[/color]]http://live.skysports.com/Live/football365/live.html (http://[color=blue). Wonder what the story is? First leg was not covered either. Maybe I'm Missing something?
Have a feeling Rangers will nick this. All the interviews have included the line 'Scottish football needs Rangers in the top tier!'. Even was thrown at the Motherwell Manager (FFS).
Its on BT Sport. 0 0 aftef 38 mins
What a fortunate goal! ;D
Well i suppose that is that! ;D
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 31, 2015, 04:12:30 PM
What a fortunate goal! ;D
Does anybody really give a fcuk ;)
Ah, poor auld Rangers staying down for another year.
Rangers players now dragging the club's name further into the sewers. An attack like that on the street would land you in jail.
Quote from: Line Ball on May 31, 2015, 04:43:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 31, 2015, 04:12:30 PM
What a fortunate goal! ;D
Does anybody really give a fcuk ;)
Clearly you do! As you know this game is on and took time to make a comment on it.
https://vine.co/v/ehbFZADlKFj (https://vine.co/v/ehbFZADlKFj)
;D ;D ;D
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 31, 2015, 06:14:53 PM
Quote from: Line Ball on May 31, 2015, 04:43:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 31, 2015, 04:12:30 PM
What a fortunate goal! ;D
Does anybody really give a fcuk ;)
Clearly you do! As you know this game is on and took time to make a comment on it.
What point are you trying to make?
Quote from: Line Ball on May 31, 2015, 06:20:38 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 31, 2015, 06:14:53 PM
Quote from: Line Ball on May 31, 2015, 04:43:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 31, 2015, 04:12:30 PM
What a fortunate goal! ;D
Does anybody really give a fcuk ;)
Clearly you do! As you know this game is on and took time to make a comment on it.
What point are you trying to make?
Not trying to make any point. Just an observation.
Quote from: Nigel White on May 31, 2015, 06:54:12 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 31, 2015, 06:14:53 PM
Quote from: Line Ball on May 31, 2015, 04:43:03 PM
Quote from: From the Bunker on May 31, 2015, 04:12:30 PM
What a fortunate goal! ;D
Does anybody really give a fcuk ;)
Clearly you do! As you know this game is on and took time to make a comment on it.
It was a hateful comment and I'd love to know what motivated him to make it. Didn't see the 2nd half as I went to watch a club match but delighted to see them stay down
What are you on about? I didn't care whether it a fortunate goal or an unfortunate goal, it was still a goal against Rangers all the same. You obviously didn't see my next post:
Quote from: Line Ball on May 31, 2015, 05:06:57 PM
Ah, poor auld Rangers staying down for another year.
Catch a grip the pair of you!
I did see it and consequently removed the post as soon as I realised what your point was. Sorry about that.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 31, 2015, 06:18:54 PM
https://vine.co/v/ehbFZADlKFj (https://vine.co/v/ehbFZADlKFj)
;D ;D ;D
That is comedy gold. WTF is Bell trying to do. Even Floyd Mayweather throws a better punch.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2015, 07:31:13 PM
Quote from: red hander on May 30, 2015, 07:06:36 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 30, 2015, 12:13:39 AM
Quote from: red hander on May 29, 2015, 04:41:53 PM
Quote from: illdecide on May 29, 2015, 11:33:14 AM
Nah can't see them winning 3-0 at Motherwell TBH. I was sort of looking forward to playing them next year but that now looks unlikely.
You never know, what with Scottish refs and their propensity to favour the Huns cos that's what they're told to do by the powers that be.I don't really trust Motherwell to do this (I hope I'm wrong) for they have always bent over and taken it from Rangers... always
That's what it is after all this time... All the referees are huns!! Makes soooooo much sense now... Grow da fcuk up
Ack look at the history, it's as obvious as the nose on yer face, unless you lost yer nose in an industrial accident in all those years in the shipyard
I'm not blinkered either, that's why I asked the question, are all the referees huns and supporters of rangers??
There have been some anti rangers refs in the past - known Celtic , hibs, Aberdeen fans
But if they are too blatantly bad they are brought into line by being dropped off the panel for big games for a while
But yes rangers do have biased refs against them on occasion too!
Think the gap between the teams was so great that even a ref couldn't pull a rabbit out of a hat v Motherwell
My big Motherwell catholic workmate who was at both games is a happy drunk tonight.... Hopefully he hasn't too much on tomorrow
So in the end only Hearts got promoted out of the Championship.
Hibs & the Gers to slug it out next year.
Quote from: Aaron Boone on May 31, 2015, 11:05:23 PM
So in the end only Hearts got promoted out of the Championship.
Hibs & the Gers to slug it out next year.
Great result for the teams in the Championship attendance wise!
Quote from: Over the Bar on May 31, 2015, 05:22:19 PM
Rangers players now dragging the club's name further into the sewers. An attack like that on the street would land you in jail.
Wise up. Irish jails would be full og GAA players if you adopted that approach given the number of digging matches and scuffles that take place at GAA matches. Your Motherwell player provoked him in any case. Seemed to come from behind him to goad him before pushing him in the back.
Trying to shake his hand I think you will find.
Handbags?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/32954542 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/scotland/32954542)
It was some boot up the arse your man dished out.
To be fair the motherwell guy looked like a bit of a sc**bag. The whole thing could have got messy with fans etc. Rare you actually see digs thrown in soccer.
It was a boot in the arse that was reminiscent of Charlie Chaplin in his heyday. The ensuing punch was like the-final right hook Marvelous Marvin Hagler landed on Tommy Hitman Hearns before he hit the deck in Vegas
It's Tuesday and still can't stop laughing at the Rangers not getting promoted...
https://vine.co/v/ehbFZADlKFj
Can't wait to see what the league try bring in for next year to get them up a division. Top 2 go up automatically maybe?
Can't chance Hibs getting the automatic spot.
Rangers released 11 players today.They need to go for a more youthful outlook next season.With no Hearts this time,and Hibs topsy turvy,there's no excuse for not running away with this league next year,but they are at least 5 years away from competing with Celtic again.
QuoteRangers released 11 players today.They need to go for a more youthful outlook next season.With no Hearts this time,and Hibs topsy turvy,there's no excuse for not running away with this league next year,but they are at least 5 years away from competing with Celtic again.
Not so sure on that one Tony. If they get promoted next year as expected for what reason, in the absence of any European distraction, could they not challenge in a year or two? They would still attract the best of the young Scottish players and it's not hard to pick up a few Davie Weir types to add experience.
Not a chance StGallsGAA. Tony is correct, rangers are 5-7 years away from competing with Celtic. Even if they go up next season their biggest problem is how to overcome Aberdeen, Inverness and Dundee Utd. When they've mastered them three then they can try and compete with Celtic. They are stone broke and can't afford to buy any decent talent at all...It probably was a good thing they didn't go up this year as another year of stability in the lower league might benefit them more than hovering around the bottom half of the premiership.
Quote from: illdecide on June 03, 2015, 08:47:34 AM
Not a chance StGallsGAA. Tony is correct, rangers are 5-7 years away from competing with Celtic. Even if they go up next season their biggest problem is how to overcome Aberdeen, Inverness and Dundee Utd. When they've mastered them three then they can try and compete with Celtic. They are stone broke and can't afford to buy any decent talent at all...It probably was a good thing they didn't go up this year as another year of stability in the lower league might benefit them more than hovering around the bottom half of the premiership.
Would be some achievement for a brand new club to get to the SPL in so few years
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2015, 01:34:43 PM
Quote from: illdecide on June 03, 2015, 08:47:34 AM
Not a chance StGallsGAA. Tony is correct, rangers are 5-7 years away from competing with Celtic. Even if they go up next season their biggest problem is how to overcome Aberdeen, Inverness and Dundee Utd. When they've mastered them three then they can try and compete with Celtic. They are stone broke and can't afford to buy any decent talent at all...It probably was a good thing they didn't go up this year as another year of stability in the lower league might benefit them more than hovering around the bottom half of the premiership.
Would be some achievement for a brand new club to get to the SPL in so few years
And look what happened the last Scottish team that done that...lol (Gretna)
I think he meant in the sense that this Rangers was formed a few years ago, not that they'll be "debuting" in the SPL.
Quote from: T Fearon on June 02, 2015, 10:31:18 PM
Rangers released 11 players today.They need to go for a more youthful outlook next season.With no Hearts this time,and Hibs topsy turvy,there's no excuse for not running away with this league next year,but they are at least 5 years away from competing with Celtic again.
I doubt it very much. They struggled against Hibs and QoS this season with the team they had. They've lost 11 tubes, whose replacements won't be any better cos they don't have the money (they're bleeding it on a weekly basis and another administration event is a real possibility) to attract decent players. I don't think they'll get up next season ;D
I'd expect more Newcastle players/investment and promotion next season.
I'd also expect they'd be challenging Celtic in their third spl season.
Once they get promoted you will find a lot more willing to financially back them again. They won't remain as broke that long!
I'd hope they go bust this season and never return but that won't happen!
IMO
Is the Newcastle player exchange thing likely to carry on given that King ousted Ashley's cronies?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 03, 2015, 09:30:32 PM
I'd expect more Newcastle players/investment and promotion next season.
I'd also expect they'd be challenging Celtic in their third spl season.
Once they get promoted you will find a lot more willing to financially back them again. They won't remain as broke that long!
I'd hope they go bust this season and never return but that won't happen!
IMO
Why? Surely every team needs a rival... Christ deep down it must be boring when you don't have those old firm games! Seems odd, Utd v liverool. Barca v Madrid AC v Inter.... No?? Rather just have the run of the mill games?
If Lynchbhoy actually believes that then he hasn't a clue of what makes Celtic Celtic.
I've talked to once-devout Celtic supporters who have stopped going to games, watching games, season tickets - recently because of the monotony of a Rangerless SPL.
Quote from: ONeill on June 03, 2015, 11:47:03 PM
If Lynchbhoy actually believes that then he hasn't a clue of what makes Celtic Celtic.
I've talked to once-devout Celtic supporters who have stopped going to games, watching games, season tickets - recently because of the monotony of a Rangerless SPL.
Is a hatred of Rangers more important than a love of Celtic. If you cant enjoy your club winning everything available to them (Domestically), then you are supporting them for the wrong reasons.
So you'd prefer how it is, no rangers? No old firm no intense derby games?? Hatred because (domestically) rangers have the better history? Or because they are supported by prods?
Quote from: Windmill abu on June 04, 2015, 12:27:15 AM
Quote from: ONeill on June 03, 2015, 11:47:03 PM
If Lynchbhoy actually believes that then he hasn't a clue of what makes Celtic Celtic.
I've talked to once-devout Celtic supporters who have stopped going to games, watching games, season tickets - recently because of the monotony of a Rangerless SPL.
Is a hatred of Rangers more important than a love of Celtic. If you cant enjoy your club winning everything available to them (Domestically), then you are supporting them for the wrong reasons.
Its just too easy for Celtic and as a result, there's less excitement and fewer supporters attend the games. Its similar in a way to the Leinster football championship. Both the SPL and the LSFC are a nailed on formality. If Meath for example were running Dublin close like in the early 90's you'd have a full house or close to it at Croke Pk in this years provincial series. Excitement pulls in the punters
Quote from: ONeill on June 03, 2015, 11:47:03 PM
If Lynchbhoy actually believes that then he hasn't a clue of what makes Celtic Celtic.
I've talked to once-devout Celtic supporters who have stopped going to games, watching games, season tickets - recently because of the monotony of a Rangerless SPL.
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Aberdeen leading the league for a while this season?
Following Celtic in the late 80's and most of the 90's wasn't too much fun. I also recall the crowds had dwindled because they were losing back then. Kinda screws up your rangers theory...
Average attendances
1990-91: 29,012
1991-92: 25,086
1992-93: 22,684
1993-94 : 22,637
1994-95 : 24,601
1995-96 : 34,342
1996-97 : 47,504
1997-98 : 48,532
1998-99 : 59,271
1999-2000 : 53,887
If you compare Celtic's home attendances over the past 3 'Rangers-less' SPL seasons with the 3 seasons before they are down about 5%. That suggests that the Rangers rivalry is not the prime reason that the majority of fans attend matches.
Easier to support a winning team it seems
Rangers attendances would suggest so.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 04, 2015, 04:05:42 PM
Easier to support a winning team it seems
Ask the multitudes of ManU, Man City and especially Chelsea fans that have popped up over the last decade.
I wonder where all these chelsea fans were in the days in Division 2.
Well at this rate they'll need a bigger stadium.... Unless Aberdeen stay with them next season like they did this year
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 04, 2015, 04:25:56 PM
Well at this rate they'll need a bigger stadium.... Unless Aberdeen stay with them next season like they did this year
When they get to the 10 in a row year they'll need to double the stadium capacity!
Quote from: foxcommander on June 04, 2015, 05:01:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 04, 2015, 04:25:56 PM
Well at this rate they'll need a bigger stadium.... Unless Aberdeen stay with them next season like they did this year
When they get to the 10 in a row year they'll need to double the stadium capacity!
Will be a fantastic achievement for sure
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 04, 2015, 08:09:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 04, 2015, 05:01:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 04, 2015, 04:25:56 PM
Well at this rate they'll need a bigger stadium.... Unless Aberdeen stay with them next season like they did this year
When they get to the 10 in a row year they'll need to double the stadium capacity!
Will be a fantastic achievement for sure
That it will! I don't know why Celtic are getting blamed for Rangers misfortunes. Rangers have cheated for years spending more than they had to gain extra advantage in gaining all those titles. Although still having a big following, Rangers don't have a cent to rub together. There will be no money purchases over the summer. Loan deals and free transfers coupled with old scottish stars looking for a last hurrah before they retire will be the order of the day. With 11 players let go Rangers will be team building again this year and every year for a long time. Celtic as usual will taylor their needs in relation to Champions League qualification.
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 04, 2015, 08:27:17 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 04, 2015, 08:09:00 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 04, 2015, 05:01:45 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 04, 2015, 04:25:56 PM
Well at this rate they'll need a bigger stadium.... Unless Aberdeen stay with them next season like they did this year
When they get to the 10 in a row year they'll need to double the stadium capacity!
Will be a fantastic achievement for sure
That it will! I don't know why Celtic are getting blamed for Rangers misfortunes. Rangers have cheated for years spending more than they had to gain extra advantage in gaining all those titles. Although still having a big following, Rangers don't have a cent to rub together. There will be no money purchases over the summer. Loan deals and free transfers coupled with old scottish stars looking for a last hurrah before they retire will be the order of the day. With 11 players let go Rangers will be team building again this year and every year for a long time. Celtic as usual will taylor their needs in relation to Champions League qualification.
I've never blamed Celtic for Rangers misfortune you reap what you sow and all that.... My point is the SPL seems flat now and with no regular old firm games the hype factor that the Scottish league had is effectively gone, you can agree that not having Rangers playing Celtic four times a year has impacted tv attendances and Scottish football promotion
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2015, 11:42:26 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 03, 2015, 09:30:32 PM
I'd expect more Newcastle players/investment and promotion next season.
I'd also expect they'd be challenging Celtic in their third spl season.
Once they get promoted you will find a lot more willing to financially back them again. They won't remain as broke that long!
I'd hope they go bust this season and never return but that won't happen!
IMO
Why? Surely every team needs a rival... Christ deep down it must be boring when you don't have those old firm games! Seems odd, Utd v liverool. Barca v Madrid AC v Inter.... No?? Rather just have the run of the mill games?
Why do you have to have A rival ?
All opponents are rivals
Ranger less spl is a league with far less actual hatred
I don't miss them and I'd never go to a game v rangers again
The most vile atmosphere inside and outside the ground
I never miss this or the unprovoked attacks I witnessed etc in a multitude of lifetimes
Quote from: Windmill abu on June 04, 2015, 12:27:15 AM
Quote from: ONeill on June 03, 2015, 11:47:03 PM
If Lynchbhoy actually believes that then he hasn't a clue of what makes Celtic Celtic.
I've talked to once-devout Celtic supporters who have stopped going to games, watching games, season tickets - recently because of the monotony of a Rangerless SPL.
Is a hatred of Rangers more important than a love of Celtic. If you cant enjoy your club winning everything available to them (Domestically), then you are supporting them for the wrong reasons.
Spot on windmill
I support Celtic and am not watching these games to hate rangers - not sure what loons of friends you have or what exactly their 'draw' is in sport. Maybe they should go to boxing nights instead!!
Having been a paid up season ticket holder at Celtic park for ten years I've enough exp to at least voice my opinion!
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 04, 2015, 09:47:57 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on June 04, 2015, 12:27:15 AM
Quote from: ONeill on June 03, 2015, 11:47:03 PM
If Lynchbhoy actually believes that then he hasn't a clue of what makes Celtic Celtic.
I've talked to once-devout Celtic supporters who have stopped going to games, watching games, season tickets - recently because of the monotony of a Rangerless SPL.
Is a hatred of Rangers more important than a love of Celtic. If you cant enjoy your club winning everything available to them (Domestically), then you are supporting them for the wrong reasons.
Spot on windmill
I support Celtic and am not watching these games to hate rangers - not sure what loons of friends you have or what exactly their 'draw' is in sport. Maybe they should go to boxing nights instead!!
Having been a paid up season ticket holder at Celtic park for ten years I've enough exp to at least voice my opinion!
Obviously O'Neill becomes the oracle of Celtic knowledge by default after allegedly communicating in some fashion with some type of Celtic fans and claims to have realised what make Celtic, Celtic. So you should bow to the self appointed
Celtic oracle, and who woulda thought it? O'Neill the expert on what makes Celtic, Celtic?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1TxAfrmFas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1TxAfrmFas)
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 04, 2015, 11:12:15 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1TxAfrmFas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1TxAfrmFas)
class video :) :) :)
Quote from: foxcommander on June 04, 2015, 04:14:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 04, 2015, 04:05:42 PM
Easier to support a winning team it seems
Ask the multitudes of ManU, Man City and especially Chelsea fans that have popped up over the last decade.
I wonder where all these chelsea fans were in the days in Division 2.
You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about if you include Manchester United in that.
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 05, 2015, 01:13:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 04, 2015, 04:14:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 04, 2015, 04:05:42 PM
Easier to support a winning team it seems
Ask the multitudes of ManU, Man City and especially Chelsea fans that have popped up over the last decade.
I wonder where all these chelsea fans were in the days in Division 2.
You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about if you include Manchester United in that.
Really?
(http://www.football-marketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/manchester-united-fans-hong-kong.jpg)
Quote from: foxcommander on June 05, 2015, 03:16:23 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 05, 2015, 01:13:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 04, 2015, 04:14:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 04, 2015, 04:05:42 PM
Easier to support a winning team it seems
Ask the multitudes of ManU, Man City and especially Chelsea fans that have popped up over the last decade.
I wonder where all these chelsea fans were in the days in Division 2.
You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about if you include Manchester United in that.
Really?
(http://www.football-marketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/manchester-united-fans-hong-kong.jpg)
You could put up a picture of the hoards of Irish fans going to watch a Scottish team, but that be silly seeing Scotland is in...... Oh wait
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2015, 05:26:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 05, 2015, 03:16:23 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 05, 2015, 01:13:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 04, 2015, 04:14:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 04, 2015, 04:05:42 PM
Easier to support a winning team it seems
Ask the multitudes of ManU, Man City and especially Chelsea fans that have popped up over the last decade.
I wonder where all these chelsea fans were in the days in Division 2.
You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about if you include Manchester United in that.
Really?
(http://www.football-marketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/manchester-united-fans-hong-kong.jpg)
You could put up a picture of the hoards of Irish fans going to watch a Scottish team, but that be silly seeing Scotland is in...... Oh wait
What I said was the hoards of new ManU fans that have sprung up over the last 10 years. Or is there a clamour in Asia and other places around the globe for that EPL side Torquay United who keep winning or challenging for the premier league?
Quote from: foxcommander on June 05, 2015, 05:35:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2015, 05:26:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 05, 2015, 03:16:23 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 05, 2015, 01:13:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 04, 2015, 04:14:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 04, 2015, 04:05:42 PM
Easier to support a winning team it seems
Ask the multitudes of ManU, Man City and especially Chelsea fans that have popped up over the last decade.
I wonder where all these chelsea fans were in the days in Division 2.
You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about if you include Manchester United in that.
Really?
(http://www.football-marketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/manchester-united-fans-hong-kong.jpg)
You could put up a picture of the hoards of Irish fans going to watch a Scottish team, but that be silly seeing Scotland is in...... Oh wait
What I said was the hoards of new ManU fans that have sprung up over the last 10 years. Or is there a clamour in Asia and other places around the globe for that EPL side Torquay United who keep winning or challenging for the premier league?
Think he has got ye Milltown....on a side note what is the white dude in the Eng jersey pointing at?
Quote from: foxcommander on June 05, 2015, 05:35:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2015, 05:26:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 05, 2015, 03:16:23 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 05, 2015, 01:13:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 04, 2015, 04:14:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 04, 2015, 04:05:42 PM
Easier to support a winning team it seems
Ask the multitudes of ManU, Man City and especially Chelsea fans that have popped up over the last decade.
I wonder where all these chelsea fans were in the days in Division 2.
You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about if you include Manchester United in that.
Really?
(http://www.football-marketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/manchester-united-fans-hong-kong.jpg)
You could put up a picture of the hoards of Irish fans going to watch a Scottish team, but that be silly seeing Scotland is in...... Oh wait
What I said was the hoards of new ManU fans that have sprung up over the last 10 years. Or is there a clamour in Asia and other places around the globe for that EPL side Torquay United who keep winning or challenging for the premier league?
You didn't mention new man u fans, Chelsea fans yes I can understand, even Man city fans, but in the main City fans are Manchester borough based ..
(http://files.stv.tv/imagebase/104/623x349/104275-football-celtics-ki-sung-yueng-on-asian-cup-duty-with-south-korea.jpg) Did he ever bring in any Asian fans?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2015, 06:12:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 05, 2015, 05:35:46 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2015, 05:26:40 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 05, 2015, 03:16:23 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on June 05, 2015, 01:13:10 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 04, 2015, 04:14:39 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 04, 2015, 04:05:42 PM
Easier to support a winning team it seems
Ask the multitudes of ManU, Man City and especially Chelsea fans that have popped up over the last decade.
I wonder where all these chelsea fans were in the days in Division 2.
You clearly don't have a clue what you're talking about if you include Manchester United in that.
Really?
(http://www.football-marketing.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/manchester-united-fans-hong-kong.jpg)
You could put up a picture of the hoards of Irish fans going to watch a Scottish team, but that be silly seeing Scotland is in...... Oh wait
What I said was the hoards of new ManU fans that have sprung up over the last 10 years. Or is there a clamour in Asia and other places around the globe for that EPL side Torquay United who keep winning or challenging for the premier league?
You didn't mention new man u fans, Chelsea fans yes I can understand, even Man city fans, but in the main City fans are Manchester borough based ..
(http://files.stv.tv/imagebase/104/623x349/104275-football-celtics-ki-sung-yueng-on-asian-cup-duty-with-south-korea.jpg) Did he ever bring in any Asian fans?
Think he covered it by saying fans that have 'popped up'
Seanie - there's a heap of relatively new Man U fans round this neck of the woods !!
Thankfully few Sligo heads!!
Think they are all in Kildare !! :)
Quote from: Main Street on June 04, 2015, 10:56:06 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 04, 2015, 09:47:57 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on June 04, 2015, 12:27:15 AM
Quote from: ONeill on June 03, 2015, 11:47:03 PM
If Lynchbhoy actually believes that then he hasn't a clue of what makes Celtic Celtic.
I've talked to once-devout Celtic supporters who have stopped going to games, watching games, season tickets - recently because of the monotony of a Rangerless SPL.
Is a hatred of Rangers more important than a love of Celtic. If you cant enjoy your club winning everything available to them (Domestically), then you are supporting them for the wrong reasons.
Spot on windmill
I support Celtic and am not watching these games to hate rangers - not sure what loons of friends you have or what exactly their 'draw' is in sport. Maybe they should go to boxing nights instead!!
Having been a paid up season ticket holder at Celtic park for ten years I've enough exp to at least voice my opinion!
Obviously O'Neill becomes the oracle of Celtic knowledge by default after allegedly communicating in some fashion with some type of Celtic fans and claims to have realised what make Celtic, Celtic. So you should bow to the self appointed
Celtic oracle, and who woulda thought it? O'Neill the expert on what makes Celtic, Celtic?
Lol MS
I actually understand what our multi profile friend is trying to say!
Some people like the aggro.
One suspects they are also derrytreask folk - there's a bit of a history liking the rough stuff round those shores!
Not to our refined palate though MS!!
Chill out Oneill !!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2015, 06:12:10 PM
You didn't mention new man u fans, Chelsea fans yes I can understand, even Man city fans, but in the main City fans are Manchester borough based ..
You're right...this is a pic from the Clayton supporters club not far from the ethiad.
(http://www.todaytranslations.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/9804641_orig.jpg)
We love Manchester City long time.
Quote from: foxcommander on June 05, 2015, 10:44:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2015, 06:12:10 PM
You didn't mention new man u fans, Chelsea fans yes I can understand, even Man city fans, but in the main City fans are Manchester borough based ..
You're right...this is a pic from the Clayton supporters club not far from the ethiad.
(http://www.todaytranslations.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/9804641_orig.jpg)
We love Manchester City long time.
Could throw a pic up from anywhere in Ireland and say the same thing... Irish fans supporting Scottish and English teams... No different , no?
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 05, 2015, 10:25:41 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 04, 2015, 10:56:06 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 04, 2015, 09:47:57 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on June 04, 2015, 12:27:15 AM
Quote from: ONeill on June 03, 2015, 11:47:03 PM
If Lynchbhoy actually believes that then he hasn't a clue of what makes Celtic Celtic.
I've talked to once-devout Celtic supporters who have stopped going to games, watching games, season tickets - recently because of the monotony of a Rangerless SPL.
Is a hatred of Rangers more important than a love of Celtic. If you cant enjoy your club winning everything available to them (Domestically), then you are supporting them for the wrong reasons.
Spot on windmill
I support Celtic and am not watching these games to hate rangers - not sure what loons of friends you have or what exactly their 'draw' is in sport. Maybe they should go to boxing nights instead!!
Having been a paid up season ticket holder at Celtic park for ten years I've enough exp to at least voice my opinion!
Obviously O'Neill becomes the oracle of Celtic knowledge by default after allegedly communicating in some fashion with some type of Celtic fans and claims to have realised what make Celtic, Celtic. So you should bow to the self appointed
Celtic oracle, and who woulda thought it? O'Neill the expert on what makes Celtic, Celtic?
Lol MS
I actually understand what our multi profile friend is trying to say!
Some people like the aggro.
One suspects they are also derrytreask folk - there's a bit of a history liking the rough stuff round those shores!
Not to our refined palate though MS!!
Chill out Oneill !!
You're far too mellow these days.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2015, 11:18:19 PM
Quote from: foxcommander on June 05, 2015, 10:44:40 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 05, 2015, 06:12:10 PM
You didn't mention new man u fans, Chelsea fans yes I can understand, even Man city fans, but in the main City fans are Manchester borough based ..
You're right...this is a pic from the Clayton supporters club not far from the ethiad.
(http://www.todaytranslations.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/9804641_orig.jpg)
We love Manchester City long time.
Could throw a pic up from anywhere in Ireland and say the same thing... Irish fans supporting Scottish and English teams... No different , no?
Well I'm a supporter of Shandong Luneng and have been all my life (founded 1988). Being top of the Chinese super league has nothing to do with the decision. Now where the f*** is Shandong?
Go the 'Orange Fighters' (not all that mad on their nickname but i'll let it slide).
There is no one better than Celtic fans to tell everyone how great Celtic fans are ::)
Quote from: annapr on June 06, 2015, 12:34:06 PM
There is no one better than Celtic fans to tell everyone how great Celtic fans are ::)
And well they should, it's called pride in the Club!
Quote from: annapr on June 06, 2015, 12:34:06 PM
There is no one better than Celtic fans to tell everyone how great Celtic fans are ::)
Well now lets see, Messi thinks the Celtic fans are unreal, as does Ibra, and Xavi, Snoop Dog is another big fan of the fans, I think I will take their word on how good the fans are and feck the begrudgers!
I doubt Messi has ever had to spend a few hours on the ferry crossing from Larne.
I've never encountered such a group of uneducated neanderthals as the Celtic fans that are on the ferry the many times I've used the service.
It's only the Rangers fans that sing sectarian songs though of course ::)
QuoteI doubt Messi has ever had to spend a few hours on the ferry crossing from Larne.
I've never encountered such a group of uneducated neanderthals as the Celtic fans that are on the ferry the many times I've used the service.
It's only the lower classes that take the ferry to Scotland anyway. Save up a few more shillings and take the plane Anna.
Quote from: StGallsGAA on June 06, 2015, 05:27:24 PM
QuoteI doubt Messi has ever had to spend a few hours on the ferry crossing from Larne.
I've never encountered such a group of uneducated neanderthals as the Celtic fans that are on the ferry the many times I've used the service.
It's only the lower classes that take the ferry to Scotland anyway. Save up a few more shillings and take the plane Anna.
It was back in my student days but thanks for agreeing with me re Celtic fans.
Imagine being stuck on a ferry with Celtic fans AND students..... Hardly bears thinking about!! 😕
Quote from: ONeill on June 06, 2015, 01:35:54 AM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 05, 2015, 10:25:41 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 04, 2015, 10:56:06 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 04, 2015, 09:47:57 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on June 04, 2015, 12:27:15 AM
Quote from: ONeill on June 03, 2015, 11:47:03 PM
If Lynchbhoy actually believes that then he hasn't a clue of what makes Celtic Celtic.
I've talked to once-devout Celtic supporters who have stopped going to games, watching games, season tickets - recently because of the monotony of a Rangerless SPL.
Is a hatred of Rangers more important than a love of Celtic. If you cant enjoy your club winning everything available to them (Domestically), then you are supporting them for the wrong reasons.
Spot on windmill
I support Celtic and am not watching these games to hate rangers - not sure what loons of friends you have or what exactly their 'draw' is in sport. Maybe they should go to boxing nights instead!!
Having been a paid up season ticket holder at Celtic park for ten years I've enough exp to at least voice my opinion!
Obviously O'Neill becomes the oracle of Celtic knowledge by default after allegedly communicating in some fashion with some type of Celtic fans and claims to have realised what make Celtic, Celtic. So you should bow to the self appointed
Celtic oracle, and who woulda thought it? O'Neill the expert on what makes Celtic, Celtic?
Lol MS
I actually understand what our multi profile friend is trying to say!
Some people like the aggro.
One suspects they are also derrytreask folk - there's a bit of a history liking the rough stuff round those shores!
Not to our refined palate though MS!!
Chill out Oneill !!
You're far too mellow these days.
Noticed that myself
Old age and GFA I'd say
Quote from: annapr on June 06, 2015, 04:54:30 PM
I doubt Messi has ever had to spend a few hours on the ferry crossing from Larne.
I've never encountered such a group of uneducated neanderthals as the Celtic fans that are on the ferry the many times I've used the service.
It's only the Rangers fans that sing sectarian songs though of course ::)
What sectarian sings would those be?
( prob the derrytreask boys again and those spides from Belfast who don't really care about sports but see an excuse for no stop cheap drinking and a scrap)
Quote from: stew on June 06, 2015, 04:33:22 PM
Quote from: annapr on June 06, 2015, 12:34:06 PM
There is no one better than Celtic fans to tell everyone how great Celtic fans are ::)
Well now lets see, Messi thinks the Celtic fans are unreal, as does Ibra, and Xavi, Snoop Dog is another big fan of the fans, I think I will take their word on how good the fans are and feck the begrudgers!
+1
Don't forget the mayor of Seville and countless other international soccer stars who have also commented positively about celtics fans and good behavior as well as superb support of their team
QuoteThere is no one better than Celtic fans to tell everyone how great Celtic fans are ::)
Would UEFA be better? The estimated 80,000 Celtic fans who went to Seville received a unique award from UEFA for the exemplary behaviour of their fans. Even in defeat there was not one arrest. Hard to believe in the modern game. (On the other hand Liverpool and Rangers are the worst offenders from these shores).
These shores?
This shore = Ireland. These shores = GB and Ireland. Comprendez?
Quote from: Over the Bar on June 08, 2015, 04:30:30 PM
This shore = Ireland. These shores = GB and Ireland. Comprendez?
No comprende.
Why wouldn't "these shores" include all shores of all land masses?
Or are you referring to "The British Isles" and were remiss in including that tidbit of information? >:(
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 05, 2015, 10:25:41 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 04, 2015, 10:56:06 PM
Quote from: lynchbhoy on June 04, 2015, 09:47:57 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on June 04, 2015, 12:27:15 AM
Quote from: ONeill on June 03, 2015, 11:47:03 PM
If Lynchbhoy actually believes that then he hasn't a clue of what makes Celtic Celtic.
I've talked to once-devout Celtic supporters who have stopped going to games, watching games, season tickets - recently because of the monotony of a Rangerless SPL.
Is a hatred of Rangers more important than a love of Celtic. If you cant enjoy your club winning everything available to them (Domestically), then you are supporting them for the wrong reasons.
Spot on windmill
I support Celtic and am not watching these games to hate rangers - not sure what loons of friends you have or what exactly their 'draw' is in sport. Maybe they should go to boxing nights instead!!
Having been a paid up season ticket holder at Celtic park for ten years I've enough exp to at least voice my opinion!
Obviously O'Neill becomes the oracle of Celtic knowledge by default after allegedly communicating in some fashion with some type of Celtic fans and claims to have realised what make Celtic, Celtic. So you should bow to the self appointed
Celtic oracle, and who woulda thought it? O'Neill the expert on what makes Celtic, Celtic?
Lol MS
I actually understand what our multi profile friend is trying to say!
Some people like the aggro.
One suspects they are also derrytreask folk - there's a bit of a history liking the rough stuff round those shores!
Not to our refined palate though MS!!
Chill out Oneill !!
I have to say, I on occasion do indulge in what could be perceived as low standard activity and spend a few mirthful hours reading the gloating threads on Kerrydale st.
I don't refer to these shores as the British Isles much for the same reason they are not referred to as the Irish Isles, both references are factually incorrect. However there is enough connection between the two land masses (3 if you include IoM) to make the loose term 'these shores' accurate enough.
Quote from: Over the Bar on June 09, 2015, 09:23:06 PM
I don't refer to these shores as the British Isles much for the same reason they are not referred to as the Irish Isles, both references are factually incorrect. However there is enough connection between the two land masses (3 if you include IoM) to make the loose term 'these shores' accurate enough.
I wouldn't worry too much. The west brit contingent in here wouldn't be able to tell the difference ;D
Quote from: Over the Bar on June 08, 2015, 04:30:30 PM
This shore = Ireland. These shores = GB and Ireland. Comprendez?
It's common enough that "these shores" = Ireland
"I'm not from around these shores".
The shores of Ireland.
A step up or down?
Englishman Mark Warburton has been appointed as Rangers' new manager after agreeing a three-year deal, the club have announced.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsround/33141841
A good appointment - if it had been made three years ago when they had money in the bank. Now all they have is a bunch of IOU's to other people.
Agree he should guide them towards promotion even with the lack of spending power they have or likely to have.
A bit surprised he took it as he could easily have got a job with some of the big championship clubs in England early next season as no doubt one or more will be looking for new managers early on if results start going wrong.
Cant see Hibs troubling them for 1st spot jury still out on Stubbs for me as a manager and St Mirren are a basket case at the moment so with Warburton bringing a steady influence they should get promoted.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/33148799
His first signing is an ex Ireland U 19 and U 21 captain
Head shot for the Zombies.
Former Rangers administrator David Whitehouse arrested and detained in relation to police probe into Charles Green takeoverQuoteFORMER Rangers administrator David Whitehouse has been arrested and detained in relation to the police investigation into the Charles Green consortium's takeover of Rangers.
Former chief executive Charles Green continues to be questioned by police in relation to events surrounding his time at the helm of the club.
It was confirmed that it relates to the background to Mr Green's Sevco consortium buying the club's assets, for £5.5 million in 2012.
In a new development, Police Scotland confirmed that Mr Whitehouse, one of the joint administrators from Duff and Phelps of Rangers oldco, has been arrested.
A Police Scotland source said he is in custody and is due to appear before Glasgow Sheriff Court on Wednesday.
A source said: "It is connection with the alleged fraudulent acquisition of Rangers Football Club."
Mr Green arrived at Livingston police station for talks on Tuesday, saying he did not know why he was there.
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The events are separate to the inquiry into Craig Whyte's alleged fraudulent takeover in May 2011.
Mr Green took control at Rangers after buying the club's assets following administration and liquidation of oldco.
Arriving at Livingston police station on Tuesday morning, Mr Green said: "I've been invited to attend an interview with Police Scotland. I have done that on a number of occasions in the past."
Asked why he was there, Mr Green replied: "Well, one of the difficulties with today is my legal people had asked Police Scotland to provide us information that we're likely to be questioned on and they wouldn't provide that so I'm at a loss really."
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Whyte has previously appeared in court charged with fraud following an investigation into the purchase of Rangers Football Club in 2011.
He and others who were charged with fraudulent activity linked to the sale were released on bail last year.Other key figures Imran Ahmad, Craig Whyte and Duff and Phelps administrator Paul Clark have not so far been invited to answer questions.
Why such interest in the second tier of a pub league ??
cuz it's the peeple's club....
That escalated quickly. Which, given the facts of the case have been in plain sight from the beginning, is a little strange.
Quote from: deiseach on September 02, 2015, 09:13:45 AM
That escalated quickly. Which, given the facts of the case have been in plain sight from the beginning, is a little strange.
The waited until they had a nailed on case apparently!
This soap opera just runs and runs!
Mike Ashley applies for High Court enforcement of injunction that could lead to New Rangers chairman Dave King being gaoled for contempt of Court.
Old Rangers lose the "Big Tax Case".
Charles Green goes to Court next week to force New Rangers to pay the cost of his defence in criminal proceedings linked to his establishment of the New Club.
Annual accounts (unaudited) show £7.5m loss last year with at least £2.5m shortfall this year, despite £4.5m in loans from directors.
How long can they keep this tribute act on the road?
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/opinion/sport/keith-jackson-calms-been-blown-6769680
It's been quite amusing reading Keith Jackson eating crow on Twitter recently over his 'off the radar wealth' claim when Craig White arrived on the scene. 'I trusted my editor' he whined at anyone who (justifiably) accused him of being a crap journalist for not seeing through White. I wonder did Jackson see this perfect storm approaching and decide that history was going to see him as a rat that deserted the sinking ship rather than go down with it.
Well done Hibs!
Great win for Hibs and a great final .
Great win for hibs. Massive overreaction to the pitch invasion after by the media.
Pitch invasion was no worse than Scotland fans at Wembley in 1967 and 1981,which is fondly remembered.
]https://youtu.be/INW-cZSg5xs] (https://youtu.be/INW-cZSg5xs)
Quote from: passedit on May 22, 2016, 07:01:28 PM
]https://youtu.be/INW-cZSg5xs] (https://youtu.be/INW-cZSg5xs)
brillant version of the hibees anthem 'sunshine on leith'.
Quote from: T Fearon on May 22, 2016, 08:32:46 AM
Pitch invasion was no worse than Scotland fans at Wembley in 1967 and 1981,which is fondly remembered.
Just exuberance after waiting 114 years ... the trouble came when the Zombies, playing in their first ever Scottish Cup final, went on the pitch looking trouble
Joey Barton on his way then.
Him & Scott Brown should be fun. There'll be some bets taken on him getting a red in the 1st old firm game of the year.
Quote from: lurganblue on May 23, 2016, 04:22:10 PM
Joey Barton on his way then.
They truly deserve each other
Quote from: bennydorano on May 23, 2016, 05:10:30 PM
Him & Scott Brown should be fun. There'll be some bets taken on him getting a red in the 1st old firm game of the year.
Barton will make it all about Barton, he cannot help himself, he was a hell of a player but he will always let you down.
I will put a fiver on him,being sent off in every old firm game, the man could well start a riot at some point, a great fit for a horrible outfit.
Quote from: stew on May 24, 2016, 09:48:38 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on May 23, 2016, 05:10:30 PM
Him & Scott Brown should be fun. There'll be some bets taken on him getting a red in the 1st old firm game of the year.
Barton will make it all about Barton, he cannot help himself, he was a hell of a player but he will always let you down.
I will put a fiver on him,being sent off in every old firm game, the man could well start a riot at some point, a great fit for a horrible outfit.
Think this says a lot about the man himself, had a chance to go back into the EPL and show everyone how good he thinks he actually is and turned down that opportunity to play in an inferior league with no where near the scrutiny.
I think he has bottled it.
what's worse is that he has tweeted before that he is a celtic fan. Also for a man who is very much pro Palestine and anti royalty, surely he is completely at odds with the ethos of this club?
Is that the criteria for being called a fan these days, a favorable tweet?
Celtic did not offer him a contract with a good signing on fee. Barton is a free agent and can pick and choose from offers on his table.
He's a good signing for Rangers, I suppose he'll pick up the accent fast enough.
No but a tweet saying "I'm a Celtic fan" would distinguish him as a Celtic fan I'd say.
Quote from: lurganblue on May 24, 2016, 02:13:43 PM
No but a tweet saying "I'm a Celtic fan" would distinguish him as a Celtic fan I'd say.
Are Celtic fans not allowed play for Rangers?
Quote from: gallsman on May 24, 2016, 02:55:53 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on May 24, 2016, 02:13:43 PM
No but a tweet saying "I'm a Celtic fan" would distinguish him as a Celtic fan I'd say.
Are Celtic fans not allowed play for Rangers?
course they can. been done before i'm sure (Neil McCann springs to mind). still goes against the grain though and is at least worth a mention.
Quote from: lurganblue on May 24, 2016, 03:07:40 PM
Quote from: gallsman on May 24, 2016, 02:55:53 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on May 24, 2016, 02:13:43 PM
No but a tweet saying "I'm a Celtic fan" would distinguish him as a Celtic fan I'd say.
Are Celtic fans not allowed play for Rangers?
course they can. been done before i'm sure (Neil McCann springs to mind). still goes against the grain though and is at least worth a mention.
[/ququoteYou would think that would be obvious to all, sadly not the case.
I don't see what the problem is... lads flipping clean out about it here in work!
Rangers want to pay him to play football for them so why shouldn't he? He's a professional what the f**k does it matter if he would rather Celtic win the league? He's not the first and certainly won't be the last!!
Jamie Carragher being an Everton supporter springs to mind as well!
Quote from: screenexile on May 24, 2016, 04:39:08 PM
I don't see what the problem is... lads flipping clean out about it here in work!
Rangers want to pay him to play football for them so why shouldn't he? He's a professional what the f**k does it matter if he would rather Celtic win the league? He's not the first and certainly won't be the last!!
Jamie Carragher being an Everton supporter springs to mind as well!
I agree. What does it matter which British/Scottish club he plays for. Celtic,Rangers they are all the same.
Yeah, I'm sure being a scouser he will enjoy playing for a sc**bag team like Rangers. Closest he'll get to Liverpool in terms of scumminess
Quote from: general_lee on May 24, 2016, 05:04:37 PM
Yeah, I'm sure being a scouser he will enjoy playing for a sc**bag team like Rangers. Closest he'll get to Liverpool in terms of scumminess
;D
Here fishy fishy fishy ;D
Quote from: screenexile on May 24, 2016, 04:39:08 PM
I don't see what the problem is... lads flipping clean out about it here in work!
Rangers want to pay him to play football for them so why shouldn't he? He's a professional what the f**k does it matter if he would rather Celtic win the league? He's not the first and certainly won't be the last!!
Jamie Carragher being an Everton supporter springs to mind as well!
[/quot
No problem at all, he is a professional and is able to sign for anyone he chooses, its just that it makes him even more of a hateful tr**p signing for servo, thats all.
Scotland is a f**king dump . Horrible people.
Jock Stein was a Rangers fan as a kid apparently.... but when he grew up realised they were a shar of cahnnts!!
Quote from: under the bar on May 24, 2016, 07:13:11 PM
Jock Stein was a Rangers fan as a kid apparently.... but when he grew up realised they were a shar of cahnnts!!
Correct, when he was announced as Celtic manager his father never spoke to him for the rest of his life, that is some kind of bitterness.
Quote from: ashman on May 24, 2016, 06:54:01 PM
Scotland is a f**king dump . Horrible people.
Well done.
Quote from: under the bar on May 24, 2016, 07:13:11 PM
Jock Stein was a Rangers fan as a kid apparently.... but when he grew up realised they were a shar of cahnnts!!
Kenny D also
Quote from: lurganblue on May 24, 2016, 02:13:43 PM
No but a tweet saying "I'm a Celtic fan" would distinguish him as a Celtic fan I'd say.
Your answer is that the criteria for being a Celtic fan is a tweet saying so?
Has he ever been to Celtic Pk? Has he ever been to any Celtic game? I seriously doubt it.
Fan is the short for fancy.
Quote from: Main Street on May 24, 2016, 11:45:21 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on May 24, 2016, 02:13:43 PM
No but a tweet saying "I'm a Celtic fan" would distinguish him as a Celtic fan I'd say.
Your answer is that the criteria for being a Celtic fan is a tweet saying so?
Has he ever been to Celtic Pk? Has he ever been to any Celtic game? I seriously doubt it.
Fan is the short for fancy.
he did say he has been to a Celtic Huns game before. He said the atmosphere was great but the standard was stinking
Quote from: stew on May 24, 2016, 08:35:38 PM
Quote from: under the bar on May 24, 2016, 07:13:11 PM
Jock Stein was a Rangers fan as a kid apparently.... but when he grew up realised they were a shar of cahnnts!!
Correct, when he was announced as Celtic manager his father never spoke to him for the rest of his life, that is some kind of bitterness.
Not true. Plenty of friends and family may not have but did not include his father. Also Stein had already played for Celtic several years before.
As for Barton, he really is an effed up individual. Not too surprised by his choice. Espouses republican viewpoints and yet signs for a club whose fans sing 'the queen' several times at each game. He is a pseudo intellectual who is out for no one but himself. He is a decent footballer no more no less. John Terry also professes a liking for Celtic but wouldn't want him near our club.
Quote from: ned on May 25, 2016, 07:22:58 AM
Quote from: stew on May 24, 2016, 08:35:38 PM
Quote from: under the bar on May 24, 2016, 07:13:11 PM
Jock Stein was a Rangers fan as a kid apparently.... but when he grew up realised they were a shar of cahnnts!!
Correct, when he was announced as Celtic manager his father never spoke to him for the rest of his life, that is some kind of bitterness.
Not true. Plenty of friends and family may not have but did not include his father. Also Stein had already played for Celtic several years before.
As for Barton, he really is an effed up individual. Not too surprised by his choice. Espouses republican viewpoints and yet signs for a club whose fans sing 'the queen' several times at each game. He is a pseudo intellectual who is out for no one but himself. He is a decent footballer no more no less. John Terry also professes a liking for Celtic but wouldn't want him near our club.
I stand corrected, his best friend never spoke to him again and his father never wished him all the best and coukdnt even bring himself to say Celtic's name, it caused a severe strain on many re lationships he had but he fought bigotry the rest of his life.
Jesus, Rangers sign a washed up older epl player and the Celtic lads lose their shit!! .. Celtics only way of losing the league will be to other teams, not rangers
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-fan-who-kicked-young-8034647#FW7sKobLSBp2uqO2.97
Ballymena Loyal
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on May 25, 2016, 11:28:59 PM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-fan-who-kicked-young-8034647#FW7sKobLSBp2uqO2.97
Ballymena Loyal
Shocked?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2016, 11:33:13 PM
Quote from: Arthur_Friend on May 25, 2016, 11:28:59 PM
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/rangers-fan-who-kicked-young-8034647#FW7sKobLSBp2uqO2.97
Ballymena Loyal
Shocked?
What did you call the Ballymena footballer sure in the Aviva?
Sure they will think its great around the Bible Belt
An Irishman getting thuggish over scottish soccerball. Does he follow his local club ???
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on May 25, 2016, 10:23:06 PM
Jesus, Rangers sign a washed up older epl player and the Celtic lads lose their shit!! .. Celtics only way of losing the league will be to other teams, not rangers
I despise the f**ker but he was just named in the championships starting eleven, hardly washed up, fucked up.......absolutely
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/ruth-dudley-edwards/success-on-the-pitch-would-be-the-perfect-way-for-resurgent-rangers-to-confound-those-who-choose-to-demonise-club-34774268.html
It's official, the mad old revisionist bat has finally lost it completely ::)
Quote from: red hander on June 06, 2016, 05:47:50 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/ruth-dudley-edwards/success-on-the-pitch-would-be-the-perfect-way-for-resurgent-rangers-to-confound-those-who-choose-to-demonise-club-34774268.html
It's official, the mad old revisionist bat has finally lost it completely ::)
The has to be a WUM article?
Well its an article from a WUM.
What else do you expect from that goat
Quote from: red hander on June 06, 2016, 05:47:50 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/ruth-dudley-edwards/success-on-the-pitch-would-be-the-perfect-way-for-resurgent-rangers-to-confound-those-who-choose-to-demonise-club-34774268.html
It's official, the mad old revisionist bat has finally lost it completely ::)
She really hates all things Irish....
QuoteAs Sinn Fein did to Orangemen and the RUC, so extreme Scots republicans are trying to do to Rangers, with the intention of demoralising them by denying them sympathy, equality, dignity or respect.
... and no matter what the topic she never misses the chance to have a swipe at Sinn Fein. Who remembers Conor Cruise O'Brien who thought he would be a friend of unionism? How did that work our for him?
Was it Bob McCartney Cruise tried to cosy up to?
Quote from: From the Bunker on June 06, 2016, 06:28:55 PM
Quote from: red hander on June 06, 2016, 05:47:50 PM
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/opinion/columnists/ruth-dudley-edwards/success-on-the-pitch-would-be-the-perfect-way-for-resurgent-rangers-to-confound-those-who-choose-to-demonise-club-34774268.html
It's official, the mad old revisionist bat has finally lost it completely ::)
The has to be a WUM article?
This is the level of journalism that passes for OK now at the Tele?
What a save from the Frankfurt Keeper!
A season of trophies won on penalties it seems. The Germans winning a penalty shootout.
Thank God for that! ;D
Juve knew what they were doing with Ramsey :D
Praise Jesus and German efficiency at penalties
The bars may close now!!
Phew. The polis may get a double shift on tonight.
Ramseys penalty was lousy. He was only on the field two minutes he can have no excuses.
Toora lu, toora lay,
Oh, it's six miles from Bangor...
There's only one aaron ramsey
Call up the National Guard, pull the shutters down in the city centre.
I said from the beginning that star signing Ramsay couldn't pass mustard.
Lol 😂
Yeoooohhhhh!
Ramsay, what a signing, done f**k all squared bar losing them a European trophy. ;D
People will be massively disappointed if Rangers don't smash up Seville now!
Quote from: red hander on May 18, 2022, 11:06:26 PM
Ramsay, what a signing, done f**k all squared bar losing them a European trophy. ;D
I wonder when he'll receive his first death threat.
Quote from: Bord na Mona man on May 18, 2022, 11:07:22 PM
People will be massively disappointed if Rangers don't smash up Seville now!
Absolutely. It'll take the gloss off their defeat if they don't wreck the place.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on May 18, 2022, 11:52:56 PM
Quote from: red hander on May 18, 2022, 11:06:26 PM
Ramsay, what a signing, done f**k all squared bar losing them a European trophy. ;D
I wonder when he'll receive his first death threat.
Check Kris Boyd on YouTube saying Ramsey's signing was greatest signing in Scottish league for 25 years. And Sky still pay this tube as a commentator. ;D
Quick turnaround for Rangers now with Cup Final on Saturday v Hearts.
Andy Goram has terminal cancer
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0530/1301964-andy-goram-reveals-terminal-cancer-diagnosis/
Very complicated life
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2022, 10:19:20 AM
Andy Goram has terminal cancer
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0530/1301964-andy-goram-reveals-terminal-cancer-diagnosis/
Very complicated life
f**k, that's rough.
Was only reading his comments on his relationship with Roy Keane a few weeks ago.
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2022, 10:19:20 AM
Andy Goram has terminal cancer
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0530/1301964-andy-goram-reveals-terminal-cancer-diagnosis/
Very complicated life
When he does pass away, will they drape his UVF flag over the coffin and maybe put the black arm band he wore for Billy Wright in the coffin with him?
Quote from: Windmill abu on May 31, 2022, 10:37:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2022, 10:19:20 AM
Andy Goram has terminal cancer
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0530/1301964-andy-goram-reveals-terminal-cancer-diagnosis/
Very complicated life
When he does pass away, will they drape his UVF flag over the coffin and maybe put the black arm band he wore for Billy Wright in the coffin with him?
I knew he was a hardcore loyalist, but had forgotten how far he went with it.
I looked up how old he was at the time he wore the armband for Wright, and he was 34, so its not like he could be excused as a naive young lad when he did it.
There are two Andy Gorhams, which one died?
Neither
Quote from: Windmill abu on May 31, 2022, 10:37:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2022, 10:19:20 AM
Andy Goram has terminal cancer
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0530/1301964-andy-goram-reveals-terminal-cancer-diagnosis/
Very complicated life
When he does pass away, will they drape his UVF flag over the coffin and maybe put the black arm band he wore for Billy Wright in the coffin with him?
didn't he claim the black armband was for his aunt (who died several months prior) and not Billy Wright who was killed only about 5 days beforehand. Don't think too many bought that one.
Quote from: clarshack on May 31, 2022, 01:35:53 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on May 31, 2022, 10:37:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2022, 10:19:20 AM
Andy Goram has terminal cancer
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0530/1301964-andy-goram-reveals-terminal-cancer-diagnosis/
Very complicated life
When he does pass away, will they drape his UVF flag over the coffin and maybe put the black arm band he wore for Billy Wright in the coffin with him?
didn't he claim the black armband was for his aunt (who died several months prior) and not Billy Wright who was killed only about 5 days beforehand. Don't think too many bought that one.
He found it harder to lie about this one.
(http://webzoom.freewebs.com/talfanzine/Goram1.jpg)
How many times has he been married ?
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2022, 07:41:20 PM
How many times has he been married ?
I think he is on #4 at the minute.
Quote"And pride of place in his secret den of hate goes to a mounted FLUTE."
You know you're reading high brow stuff when there's quality journalism like that.
Quote from: Windmill abu on May 31, 2022, 01:57:56 PM
Quote from: clarshack on May 31, 2022, 01:35:53 PM
Quote from: Windmill abu on May 31, 2022, 10:37:49 AM
Quote from: seafoid on May 31, 2022, 10:19:20 AM
Andy Goram has terminal cancer
https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2022/0530/1301964-andy-goram-reveals-terminal-cancer-diagnosis/
Very complicated life
When he does pass away, will they drape his UVF flag over the coffin and maybe put the black arm band he wore for Billy Wright in the coffin with him?
didn't he claim the black armband was for his aunt (who died several months prior) and not Billy Wright who was killed only about 5 days beforehand. Don't think too many bought that one.
He found it harder to lie about this one.
(http://webzoom.freewebs.com/talfanzine/Goram1.jpg)
Was he not meant to be knocking off the wife of a LVF prisoner back then, hence the warning from the RUC?
Apparently he was shagging half the Shankill back in the day...
He was a racist, sectarian bigot in his Rangers days and that's what I'll remember him as.
Shagging seems to have been his second profession
https://www.thefreelibrary.com/Andy+drove+me+to+suicide%3B+Blondes,+bets,+booze+and+bigotry...Tracy...-a060208641
Given six months to live. That's three months each.
Quote from: red hander on June 02, 2022, 04:22:44 PM
Given six months to live. That's three months each.
Crass comment - Lifted from the YBIG site? No 'funny' comments yourself?
Quote from: michaelg on June 02, 2022, 11:28:10 PM
Quote from: red hander on June 02, 2022, 04:22:44 PM
Given six months to live. That's three months each.
Crass comment - Lifted from the YBIG site? No 'funny' comments yourself?
Funny isn't your game Michaelg as you round up here to protect your dying UVF hero from the GAA board crass comments section, but there are two Andy Gorhams and which one will die first or will they both die together?
Quote from: michaelg on June 02, 2022, 11:28:10 PM
Quote from: red hander on June 02, 2022, 04:22:44 PM
Given six months to live. That's three months each.
Crass comment - Lifted from the YBIG site? No 'funny' comments yourself?
If you think you can shame me over that complete and utter tr**p of a human being, you are sadly deluded. Am a regular on YBIG as I support my country home and away, not your wee made up soon to be no more failed statelet. I notice you weren't too upset to post a reply on there, but in like a flash to whinge on here. Pathetic. Defending that lowlife sc**bag isn't much of a hill to die on.
He'll be reunited with Jimmy Bell and his hero king rat in no time
Lads let it go, man's dying of cancer that should keep ya happy without the shit thrown in, plenty on here support or supported terrorists in the past ..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2022, 12:13:01 PM
Lads let it go, man's dying of cancer that should keep ya happy without the shit thrown in, plenty on here support or supported terrorists in the past ..
Define a 'terrorist'.
Quote from: marty34 on June 03, 2022, 01:20:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2022, 12:13:01 PM
Lads let it go, man's dying of cancer that should keep ya happy without the shit thrown in, plenty on here support or supported terrorists in the past ..
Define a 'terrorist'.
Careful, you don't want to upset that sensitive soul or he'll report you to the Mods
Quote from: marty34 on June 03, 2022, 01:20:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2022, 12:13:01 PM
Lads let it go, man's dying of cancer that should keep ya happy without the shit thrown in, plenty on here support or supported terrorists in the past ..
Define a 'terrorist'.
Someone who walks into someone's home and shoots them dead in front of their kids, someone who straps a man to a vehicle and blows it up. Some one who blows up a town centre and murders kids pregnant women and old men/women someone who blows up people in bars and town centres... now if you can justify those deaths then fine, knock yourself out.
This buck eejit is just that.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2022, 01:29:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 03, 2022, 01:20:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2022, 12:13:01 PM
Lads let it go, man's dying of cancer that should keep ya happy without the shit thrown in, plenty on here support or supported terrorists in the past ..
Define a 'terrorist'.
Someone who walks into someone's home and shoots them dead in front of their kids, someone who straps a man to a vehicle and blows it up. Some one who blows up a town centre and murders kids pregnant women and old men/women someone who blows up people in bars and town centres... now if you can justify those deaths then fine, knock yourself out.
This buck eejit is just that.
Interesting.
Quote from: marty34 on June 03, 2022, 01:55:02 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2022, 01:29:36 PM
Quote from: marty34 on June 03, 2022, 01:20:58 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on June 03, 2022, 12:13:01 PM
Lads let it go, man's dying of cancer that should keep ya happy without the shit thrown in, plenty on here support or supported terrorists in the past ..
Define a 'terrorist'.
Someone who walks into someone's home and shoots them dead in front of their kids, someone who straps a man to a vehicle and blows it up. Some one who blows up a town centre and murders kids pregnant women and old men/women someone who blows up people in bars and town centres... now if you can justify those deaths then fine, knock yourself out.
This buck eejit is just that.
Interesting.
What's interesting about it?
Now down to 4-6 weeks and moving into a hospice
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/andy-goram-reveals-hes-taken-27143971
Rangers will no longer be required to participate in the Scottish Professional Football League's cinch sponsorship deal following a dispute over the car dealer's involvement.
But Neil Doncaster, the governing body's chief executive, insists income "will remain materially unchanged" after a "revised" deal was agreed.
Rangers had refused to promote the deal and had taken the matter to court.
The club cited an agreement with rival car retailer Park's of Hamilton.
A spokesperson for Rangers, who had refused to display cinch's logo, greeted the news of a revised contract by telling PA: "This is a full vindication of our stance throughout the past season and further highlights wide-ranging concerns regarding the corporate governance of the SPFL."
Doncaster, meanwhile, said the new deal "protects cinch's pivotal investment into Scottish football".
"Rangers are no longer required to participate by providing the sponsorship inventory that they have so far not provided, whilst, crucially, the overall income to Scottish football is expected to remain materially unchanged over the original five-year term of the sponsorship," he said.
"It's extremely good news that we have been able to work with our partners at cinch to develop an updated sponsorship package which delivers the same level of financial support to Scottish football, whilst providing additional SPFL media assets to cinch to compensate for loss of Rangers related rights.
"This deal gives us further confidence that we will exceed our budget and deliver fees to clubs of more than £27.5m for season 2021/22."
A spokesman for cinch said it welcomed "the evolution of our agreement with the SPFL".
Rangers chairman Douglas Park, who owns Park's of Hamilton, won a court order in August to delay Scottish FA arbitration, which had been requested by the SPFL, into the row.
The Court of Session ruled that Park's could take part in the arbitration process as an interested party.
The SPFL had warned the dispute could affect payments from the £8m five-year deal with cinch, warning clubs the stand-off presented a "real and substantial commercial risk".
WTF...how is that even allowed. Celtic continue to use "Parks of Hamilton" coach hire...unreal.