Shankill Bombing

[awideisneverasgood]

This guy murdered innocent people, plain and simple.  There are a lot of grey areas in things that happened here during the troubles but not here. He transported explosives into a heavily populated area on a busy afternoon.

There is no justification for this.

[Tony Baloney]

The IRA was formed to protect the Irish prople against tyranny. The young the old the sick the defenseless and people who couldn't defend themselves. It was a thankless horrible job. You were either going to be put in jail or killed unless you made it out of the Country. However the enemy was calculated sinister turning weaker Republicans into traitors. Committing crimes outside Republican ideology and principles with devastating effect which ultimately killed the movement and its support.

LOL you're too long in America lad.

[cadhlancian]

This guy murdered innocent people, plain and simple.  There are a lot of grey areas in things that happened here during the troubles but not here. He transported explosives into a heavily populated area on a busy afternoon.

There is no justification for this.

Listen you f**king dungbag , what part of this don't you understand? The 2 of them went into the shop to leave a bomb , get whoever was in the actual shop out the doors , lite the fuse and hopefully kill Jonny Adair and his cronies upstairs . Do you think they were trying to blow themselves up?
Of course, as we now know , they or whoever sent them made a complete balls of it. A load of innocent people were killed and that is without doubt horrible. They weren't trying to kill the people they killed , but it happened. Things like this happen in a war.
Unlike the loyalists who murdered defenseless nationalists as they sat at their dinner tables and in bars with zero political allegiances to anyone . These weren't accidents so to speak. So how about you swallow a go f**k yourself pill ?

[Wildweasel74]

G did we get an influx of sinner bots on this! Alot of people have the blinkers on, sending a man into a populated area to let off a bomb indefensible! So they get everyone out of the shop; you think no-one gona die outside when this goes off! What your excuses for putting a man in a car with a bomb then senting them up to police^army check points to get blown up! Suppose it was a war line makes it alright!

[Milltown Row2]

This guy murdered innocent people, plain and simple.  There are a lot of grey areas in things that happened here during the troubles but not here. He transported explosives into a heavily populated area on a busy afternoon.

There is no justification for this.

Listen you f**king dungbag , what part of this don't you understand? The 2 of them went into the shop to leave a bomb , get whoever was in the actual shop out the doors , lite the fuse and hopefully kill Jonny Adair and his cronies upstairs . Do you think they were trying to blow themselves up?
Of course, as we now know , they or whoever sent them made a complete balls of it. A load of innocent people were killed and that is without doubt horrible. They weren't trying to kill the people they killed , but it happened. Things like this happen in a war.
Unlike the loyalists who murdered defenseless nationalists as they sat at their dinner tables and in bars with zero political allegiances to anyone . These weren't accidents so to speak. So how about you swallow a go f**k yourself pill ?

Look there was plenty 'mistakes' and plenty 'innocent' people were murdered. One that sticks with me was the guy tied to a truck and blown up.. the Shankill butchers another and very close to my past..

The feuds always struck me as crazy and took the life of a school friend after a Gaelic match at the ground!

The 'war' was pure rotten, and people claiming the brits fought dirty, everyone fought dirty. What did people expect? Anyone who signed up knew what could happen and accepted it.

3 plus thousand died over that period and it's bizarre listening to some of the stuff here about the spooks, Queensbury rules didn't apply

Glad it's over, glad I got through it unscathed and my heart goes out to anyone who lost someone dear to them, had my experience been different I could be writing something different..

my memories of the troubles are varied, and if I started to tell my kids about them they wouldn't believe me.

[whitey]

This guy murdered innocent people, plain and simple.  There are a lot of grey areas in things that happened here during the troubles but not here. He transported explosives into a heavily populated area on a busy afternoon.

There is no justification for this.

Listen you f**king dungbag , what part of this don't you understand? The 2 of them went into the shop to leave a bomb , get whoever was in the actual shop out the doors , lite the fuse and hopefully kill Jonny Adair and his cronies upstairs . Do you think they were trying to blow themselves up?
Of course, as we now know , they or whoever sent them made a complete balls of it. A load of innocent people were killed and that is without doubt horrible. They weren't trying to kill the people they killed , but it happened. Things like this happen in a war.
Unlike the loyalists who murdered defenseless nationalists as they sat at their dinner tables and in bars with zero political allegiances to anyone . These weren't accidents so to speak. So how about you swallow a go f**k yourself pill ?

Look there was plenty 'mistakes' and plenty 'innocent' people were murdered. One that sticks with me was the guy tied to a truck and blown up.. the Shankill butchers another and very close to my past..

The feuds always struck me as crazy and took the life of a school friend after a Gaelic match at the ground!

The 'war' was pure rotten, and people claiming the brits fought dirty, everyone fought dirty. What did people expect? Anyone who signed up knew what could happen and accepted it.

3 plus thousand died over that period and it's bizarre listening to some of the stuff here about the spooks, Queensbury rules didn't apply

Glad it's over, glad I got through it unscathed and my heart goes out to anyone who lost someone dear to them, had my experience been different I could be writing something different..

my memories of the troubles are varied, and if I started to tell my kids about them they wouldn't believe me.

Theres a great Netflix documentary about the Vietnam war.   In it one of the US Veterans says (and Im paraphrasing) "dont dare question my morality, until youve walked in my shoes". I think that sentiment would apply to conflicts the world over

People are viewing the events of the past through the lens of the present, and it doesnt work

[Milltown Row2]

I remember the guy saying that, and it struck a chord.. as I said had things been different I could have walked in those shoes and been giving a different 'account'

[Wildweasel74]

Ha, you seem to think you the only one on here who was born in the early 70's and seen horrible things; maybe a person doesnt live in ivory towers; banned elephant hunting many years ago by the way! i seen a 13yrs old hit by a dum dum bullet in the arm in a uvf attack;as i was ducking for cover myself not knowing what was happening! Did i turn round and join the Ira; No,  you talk about ordinary people living extraordinary lifes like Begley; Maybe you should ask the youngest victim of the bombing! She never seen 8 so she had a short life no matter how good or bad it may have been!

[omaghjoe]

Kinda weird even tho yous are arguing nearly every post I read I agree with.
Good to read some of your stories

Twas a messed up period pretty sure tho it is a bad idea to cast judgement back in time. What happened happened best to learn from it as best as we can..I can only hope I have.

[michaelg]

G did we get an influx of sinner bots on this! Alot of people have the blinkers on, sending a man into a populated area to let off a bomb indefensible! So they get everyone out of the shop; you think no-one gona die outside when this goes off! What your excuses for putting a man in a car with a bomb then senting them up to police^army check points to get blown up! Suppose it was a war line makes it alright!

Shinner bot? Most certainly not. I'd be extremely critical of SF. But I was born early 70s and lived through a lot of shit so I'm speaking a lot from experience and I hate when someone sitting in an ivory tower somewhere casting judgement on the death of an ordinary young man from Ardoyne who died and labelling him as a mass murderer or a terrorist without any context whatsoever. I hate it worst when those sat in said ivory towers will commemorate Michael Collins, Cathal Brugha et all but then use the "ah but that was different" card.

Horrible things happened and what you mentioned was horrible and indeed a war crime. Not justifying any atrocity or killing. Merely trying to articulate (onto deaf ears it seems) that these people didn't wake up one day and decide to murder people out of bloodthirst but that they were ordinary people living extraordinary lives during a f**king{ war

It is much too simplistic to go full Ruth Dudley Edwards on the issue, which many have done.

So no. Certainly not a Shinner bot. But not a hypocritic either.

With respect to the use of the term 'war', it strikes me that Republicans want to have it both ways.  If it was a 'war' why do Republicans complain when the security forces "executed" IRA terrorsists on 'active service'.  What's wrong with a 'shoot to kill policy' if there is a war going on?  Also, I'm pretty sure murdering greengrocers etc who supplied police and army bases would not be allowed in the Geneva Convention.

[Jim Bob]

This guy murdered innocent people, plain and simple.  There are a lot of grey areas in things that happened here during the troubles but not here. He transported explosives into a heavily populated area on a busy afternoon.

There is no justification for this.

Listen you f**king dungbag , what part of this don't you understand? The 2 of them went into the shop to leave a bomb , get whoever was in the actual shop out the doors , lite the fuse and hopefully kill Jonny Adair and his cronies upstairs . Do you think they were trying to blow themselves up?
Of course, as we now know , they or whoever sent them made a complete balls of it. A load of innocent people were killed and that is without doubt horrible. They weren't trying to kill the people they killed , but it happened. Things like this happen in a war.
Unlike the loyalists who murdered defenseless nationalists as they sat at their dinner tables and in bars with zero political allegiances to anyone . These weren't accidents so to speak. So how about you swallow a go f**k yourself pill ?

What a totally ignorant response to a poster who has a different opinion to you!!!!

[themac_23]

One of the most frustrating parts when this topic is discussed is that when people don't read what you write and then leave you to reply to every horrible cherry picked example that was inexcusable and wrong. Indeed they were war crimes!

The part that I feel you are completely misunderstanding is that I am not here to defend what the IRA did. I have already stated that they committed atrocities. So the child in the Shankill bombing or the killing of the fella who was forced to drive the bomb were horrible and unjustifiable.

I'm far from saying that I am the only person born in the 70s. I assume the demographic of people sitting on the Gaaboard are much the same as me. What I am able to provide is a local context that many here wouldn't in that I come from a Republican family, I grew up in a poor and marginalised community where many people joined the IRA to fight what they saw was the cause to their ills and yes I have lost members of my family. I understand that many don't share that upbringing or whose parents were motivated by different things in life. Some of my friends' parents were pacafist, church going people whose children were the same. That's OK and they grew up where I did. But it just isn't that simple. I used the term Ivory tower because I think its appropriate for those who look in and judge or who get their information from West Brit journalists. And I also draw comparisons to previous military efforts because it exposes hypocrites. This war didn't invent itself. People have always risen up and fought against the British. Your clubs are named after hundreds that did exactly what IRA volunteers did in the past. Nobody said war was nice. Thank God its over and that my children didnt have to go through what many of us did. That fear took a long time to disappear and I take solace that young people no longer have to experience that.

Just because you didn't join the IRA doesn't mean that their motivations were murderous from sectarian bloodlust. Republicans lost many many people too and thousands of years were spent away from their families in jails. Many were killed during the war by the British army and Loyalists on active service and some were shot in the back in war crimes when they were clearly and evidently unarmed.

I think it's all probably a waste of time replying to be honest and trying to contribute to this. We could all cherry pick examples of horrible thugs but as someone posted previously its easy to look at the past through the lense of today.

Thomas Begley had a family too though and had he been born in Kerry or somewhere else would probably have played a bit of football, got married and would still be alive today. The conditions he grew up in created him and many like him. They might not have created you but Thomas Begley wasn't a lone wolf who decided to murder 9 people on the Shankill and take his own life intentionally. Let him and everyone else rest in peace.

Great post

[cadhlancian]

This guy murdered innocent people, plain and simple.  There are a lot of grey areas in things that happened here during the troubles but not here. He transported explosives into a heavily populated area on a busy afternoon.

There is no justification for this.

Listen you f**king dungbag , what part of this don't you understand? The 2 of them went into the shop to leave a bomb , get whoever was in the actual shop out the doors , lite the fuse and hopefully kill Jonny Adair and his cronies upstairs . Do you think they were trying to blow themselves up?
Of course, as we now know , they or whoever sent them made a complete balls of it. A load of innocent people were killed and that is without doubt horrible. They weren't trying to kill the people they killed , but it happened. Things like this happen in a war.
Unlike the loyalists who murdered defenseless nationalists as they sat at their dinner tables and in bars with zero political allegiances to anyone . These weren't accidents so to speak. So how about you swallow a go f**k yourself pill ?

What a totally ignorant response to a poster who has a different opinion to you!!!!
[/quote
BS.... I'm sure he read through all the posts. He clearly chose to ignore what actually happened on the day. Do you honestly think this was a suicide mission ??

[trailer]

The IRA was not about equality or empowering the people. If you came from a marginalised area (like I did) joining the RA was not the way to gain equality. Also the were not "defending" communities. Terrorising them would be more accurate.
The IRA existed to get the Brits out of Ireland (and if they could line their pockets while they went about it sure that was grand to). One aim, Brits out. SF and others are pushing other bullshit narratives. But as I heard someone say, they have to tell lies, cause they daren't tell the truth.

[awideisneverasgood]

Im not suggesting he was on a suicide mission or that he meant for that bomb to go off when it did. However, the fact remains that those people died because of his actions that day. The intended targets may have been loyalist paramilitaries but his recklessness resulted in the death of innocent people. 

Im not ignoring context here, i guess i just dont see how you can justify putting innocent peoples lives at risk. If that means im in an ivory tower or im a f*cking dung bag then so be it but thats my view.