Interesting article from an interview with micky "wing"
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/micky-mcculloughwill-we-allow-ulster-hurling-regress-to-the-point-its-extinct-885975.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/micky-mcculloughwill-we-allow-ulster-hurling-regress-to-the-point-its-extinct-885975.html)
Pretty much confirming what a lot of us thought that a lot of people in positions where they are paid to give a shit don't give a shit about ulster hurling.
The wing is right on a lot of what he says about structures in Ulster hurling especially outside North Antrim who I have to say have a pretty decent set up in terms of development.
Everything is haphazard with no strategy at play that I can see and I've been involved with various Ulster Council GDO's for the last few years.
Even these coaching courses in Cookstown or wherever are what I call pop corn events, great to hear the likes of Jackie Tyrrell or Eoin Kelly tell how they went about something or other, but totally alien to the day and daily workings of a hurler in the north.
What impact will they have, very little IMO.
Structures and fixtures.
As long as it doesn't impact on the football probably explains why the Tain league is an absolute shambles yet someone in the Ulster Council attempts to polish that particular turd every year in their reports when if you look at the number of CONC or absolute hammerings would suggest there's fundamental issues with it. Even these lads on various committees in Croke Park rabbit on about it but fail to actually delve into it.
We'll get emails about indoor events in Magherafelt in Jan and Feb, great, we'll send down teams at considerable expense but nada during the summer months where there may be benefit in setting up underage hurling intercounty blitzes to supplement club fixtures especially in counties where there are probably a shortage of fixtures to actually develop hurlers, There's a reason the likes of Eoghan Rua in Tyrone, a load of Derry teams feel the need to get their underage teams into the Antrim leagues. We'd probably be doing the same if we'd numbers from U16 up but we don't.
I don't necessarily agree with his elite squad approach as I see too much congratulatory stuff going on in my own county with development squads beating a second or third string North Cork City team yet I see a lot of lads left at home not able to train as a team as half a dozen lads are away every Saturday with development squads.
Even at that a Down schools combo won the Mageean cup the other week but if you look at the panel they actually had four or five 15 year olds on that and probably left older lads at home. I don't agree with that either and whilst that goes on we leave ourselves with an ever decreasing pool of players.
The optics look good but not when you're at the other end trying to work in a club with limited numbers.
Development/Elite squads should be there to supplement club development, not replace it.
Its all optics
They run those things to get grants from HQ
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 17, 2018, 11:37:01 AM
Interesting article from an interview with micky "wing"
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/micky-mcculloughwill-we-allow-ulster-hurling-regress-to-the-point-its-extinct-885975.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/micky-mcculloughwill-we-allow-ulster-hurling-regress-to-the-point-its-extinct-885975.html)
Pretty much confirming what a lot of us thought that a lot of people in positions where they are paid to give a shit don't give a shit about ulster hurling.
Team Ulster is a fantastic idea
I remember the excitement when Antrim beat Offaly in 89.
And fellas like Olcan McFetridge getting national coverage.
Then Loughgiel winning the club again
They have to do something radical
Good ideas about Fermanagh too.
Mol an oige agus tiocfaidh si
Quote from: seafoid on January 30, 2019, 02:47:51 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 17, 2018, 11:37:01 AM
Interesting article from an interview with micky "wing"
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/micky-mcculloughwill-we-allow-ulster-hurling-regress-to-the-point-its-extinct-885975.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/micky-mcculloughwill-we-allow-ulster-hurling-regress-to-the-point-its-extinct-885975.html)
Pretty much confirming what a lot of us thought that a lot of people in positions where they are paid to give a shit don't give a shit about ulster hurling.
Team Ulster is a fantastic idea
I remember the excitement when Antrim beat Offaly in 89.
And fellas like Olcan McFetridge getting national coverage.
Then Loughgiel winning the club again
They have to do something radical
Good ideas about Fermanagh too.
Mol an oige agus tiocfaidh si
No it isn't.
Set about developing hurling from the ground up rather than this shite that's put out every once in a while by some focus group with one token Nordie on it
Antrim and Olcan McFetridge wouldn't have gotten a look in if the structures in place now were in place then.
The elite hurling counties have pulled the drawbridge up after themselves and wonder why hurling isn't developing.
If they do the same to club hurling then you'll not hear about Loughgiel or Slaughtneil either.
Quote from: johnnycool on January 30, 2019, 03:26:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 30, 2019, 02:47:51 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 17, 2018, 11:37:01 AM
Interesting article from an interview with micky "wing"
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/micky-mcculloughwill-we-allow-ulster-hurling-regress-to-the-point-its-extinct-885975.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/micky-mcculloughwill-we-allow-ulster-hurling-regress-to-the-point-its-extinct-885975.html)
Pretty much confirming what a lot of us thought that a lot of people in positions where they are paid to give a shit don't give a shit about ulster hurling.
Team Ulster is a fantastic idea
I remember the excitement when Antrim beat Offaly in 89.
And fellas like Olcan McFetridge getting national coverage.
Then Loughgiel winning the club again
They have to do something radical
Good ideas about Fermanagh too.
Mol an oige agus tiocfaidh si
No it isn't.
Set about developing hurling from the ground up rather than this shite that's put out every once in a while by some focus group with one token Nordie on it
Antrim and Olcan McFetridge wouldn't have gotten a look in if the structures in place now were in place then.
The elite hurling counties have pulled the drawbridge up after themselves and wonder why hurling isn't developing.
If they do the same to club hurling then you'll not hear about Loughgiel or Slaughtneil either.
+1
Quote from: johnnycool on January 30, 2019, 03:26:06 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 30, 2019, 02:47:51 PM
Quote from: imtommygunn on November 17, 2018, 11:37:01 AM
Interesting article from an interview with micky "wing"
http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/micky-mcculloughwill-we-allow-ulster-hurling-regress-to-the-point-its-extinct-885975.html (http://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/sport/micky-mcculloughwill-we-allow-ulster-hurling-regress-to-the-point-its-extinct-885975.html)
Pretty much confirming what a lot of us thought that a lot of people in positions where they are paid to give a shit don't give a shit about ulster hurling.
Team Ulster is a fantastic idea
I remember the excitement when Antrim beat Offaly in 89.
And fellas like Olcan McFetridge getting national coverage.
Then Loughgiel winning the club again
They have to do something radical
Good ideas about Fermanagh too.
Mol an oige agus tiocfaidh si
No it isn't.
Set about developing hurling from the ground up rather than this shite that's put out every once in a while by some focus group with one token Nordie on it
Antrim and Olcan McFetridge wouldn't have gotten a look in if the structures in place now were in place then.
The elite hurling counties have pulled the drawbridge up after themselves and wonder why hurling isn't developing.
If they do the same to club hurling then you'll not hear about Loughgiel or Slaughtneil either.
Why not as a halfway house while investment brings up standards?
It took France 58 years to win a grand slam
An Ulster county winning an all Ireland in 25 years should be the target
You look at the Offaly players who won the All-Irelands in the 1980s and they came from the great schools teams of the 1970s, and from a very solid competitive local club culture. All the teams from the 1990s had underage medals won with Offaly and with their schools.
No county has ever made a breakthrough without having two basic things. Number one, a proper underage and schools development system. Number two, a significant number of clubs playing the game to a reasonable level. Without those two things, it is impossible. If you look at any county that has made the breakthrough in modern times, it is dependent on those things.
Things would need to be aligned throughout Ulster hurling first..
if everyone lifted their standards and approach to hurling within their own county first then that should filter into a better province, hats off to clubs like Castlblaney Donegal's Burt and core teams in Armagh and Down who by their own will (not their counties help) have continued to develop.. hurling is dying a death in Ulster..
I watched a very good Kerry team on Saturday, physically they were stronger than Antrim, and tactically playing better hurling than us.
To use Kerry as an example, Kerry hurling is like Tyrone hurling in terms of being known as a football county, but how have they managed to be at a level above Antrim?
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 06:46:15 PM
Things would need to be aligned throughout Ulster hurling first..
if everyone lifted their standards and approach to hurling within their own county first then that should filter into a better province, hats off to clubs like Castlblaney Donegal's Burt and core teams in Armagh and Down who by their own will (not their counties help) have continued to develop.. hurling is dying a death in Ulster..
I watched a very good Kerry team on Saturday, physically they were stronger than Antrim, and tactically playing better hurling than us.
To use Kerry as an example, Kerry hurling is like Tyrone hurling in terms of being known as a football county, but how have they managed to be at a level above Antrim?
Kerry are in a good place - won All IrelandU21 B last year also. The advantage they have is geography, with Clare, Limerick and Cork not that far away. This obviously helps the county but especially the clubs.
Regional clubs are the way to go in Ulster - Benburb and Tulach Og in Cookstown area of Tyrone, St. Patrick's (iirc) in Moneymore area of Derry. A cluster of areas joining together and driving hurling on. Football will always come first in the majority of Ulster but no reason that the 2 sports can't work together. The more teams there are, the better the county will be.
Main issue would be regular fixtures for the underage teams.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 06:46:15 PM
Things would need to be aligned throughout Ulster hurling first..
if everyone lifted their standards and approach to hurling within their own county first then that should filter into a better province, hats off to clubs like Castlblaney Donegal's Burt and core teams in Armagh and Down who by their own will (not their counties help) have continued to develop.. hurling is dying a death in Ulster..
I watched a very good Kerry team on Saturday, physically they were stronger than Antrim, and tactically playing better hurling than us.
To use Kerry as an example, Kerry hurling is like Tyrone hurling in terms of being known as a football county, but how have they managed to be at a level above Antrim?
Agreed but I do think it needs injection of resources from Ulster , every county should be targeted with producing 4 new clubs also, I'd say Kerry have overtaken Antrim due to higher quality of club games within their own and adjacent counties
Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?
Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ? Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 08:16:06 PM
Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?
Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ? Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..
Club teams will always have a chance in All Ireland series i.e. to get to the club final as it's set up to suit Ulster teams in fairness.
If the Ulster club champions had to play Galway champs in quarter-final etc. to get to club All Ireland semi-final, it would be be tricky enough.
Quote from: marty34 on January 30, 2019, 09:29:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 08:16:06 PM
Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?
Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ? Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..
Club teams will always have a chance in All Ireland series i.e. to get to the club final as it's set up to suit Ulster teams in fairness.
If the Ulster club champions had to play Galway champs in quarter-final etc. to get to club All Ireland semi-final, it would be be tricky enough.
Rubbish Dunloy has beaten many a Top team to get to final. Loughgiel also, Cushendall to once.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 09:51:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 30, 2019, 09:29:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 08:16:06 PM
Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?
Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ? Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..
Club teams will always have a chance in All Ireland series i.e. to get to the club final as it's set up to suit Ulster teams in fairness.
If the Ulster club champions had to play Galway champs in quarter-final etc. to get to club All Ireland semi-final, it would be be tricky enough.
Rubbish Dunloy has beaten many a Top team to get to final. Loughgiel also, Cushendall to once.
How many Ulster teams have won the club All Ireland? I'm from Ulster!
The set up suits Ulster teams.
Quote from: marty34 on January 30, 2019, 10:18:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 09:51:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 30, 2019, 09:29:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 08:16:06 PM
Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?
Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ? Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..
Club teams will always have a chance in All Ireland series i.e. to get to the club final as it's set up to suit Ulster teams in fairness.
If the Ulster club champions had to play Galway champs in quarter-final etc. to get to club All Ireland semi-final, it would be be tricky enough.
Rubbish Dunloy has beaten many a Top team to get to final. Loughgiel also, Cushendall to once.
How many Ulster teams have won the club All Ireland? I'm from Ulster!
The set up suits Ulster teams.
I've been to at least 15/20 club semifinals over the years, bar a couple they could have went either way, they were that tight.. the county needs to look at getting more teams regularly up to a decent standard, having a championship that is not just between 3 teams each year... how do they do that?
Clubs are responsible but the county are at the minute putting in a drive to encourage schools at all levels, lifting the involvement not just with the kids but with teaching staff and feeder clubs.. Antrim has taken its eye off the ball now for 25 plus years.. it's going to take a huge effort to get back there.
But for Antrim to be improving then so must the rest in the province. Getting into Leinster again at juvenile levels is a must, they are our closet province and they have improved their not traditional counties like, Dublin, Carlow, Meath Westmeath to a level way above us, but 25 years ago we'd have beaten such teams with a bit to spare..
Look it's a head scratcher for sure and PD will hopefully have sorted out at least a start to fix this!
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 10:50:35 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 30, 2019, 10:18:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 09:51:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 30, 2019, 09:29:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 08:16:06 PM
Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?
Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ? Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..
Club teams will always have a chance in All Ireland series i.e. to get to the club final as it's set up to suit Ulster teams in fairness.
If the Ulster club champions had to play Galway champs in quarter-final etc. to get to club All Ireland semi-final, it would be be tricky enough.
Rubbish Dunloy has beaten many a Top team to get to final. Loughgiel also, Cushendall to once.
How many Ulster teams have won the club All Ireland? I'm from Ulster!
The set up suits Ulster teams.
I've been to at least 15/20 club semifinals over the years, bar a couple they could have went either way, they were that tight.. the county needs to look at getting more teams regularly up to a decent standard, having a championship that is not just between 3 teams each year... how do they do that?
Clubs are responsible but the county are at the minute putting in a drive to encourage schools at all levels, lifting the involvement not just with the kids but with teaching staff and feeder clubs.. Antrim has taken its eye off the ball now for 25 plus years.. it's going to take a huge effort to get back there.
But for Antrim to be improving then so must the rest in the province. Getting into Leinster again at juvenile levels is a must, they are our closet province and they have improved their not traditional counties like, Dublin, Carlow, Meath Westmeath to a level way above us, but 25 years ago we'd have beaten such teams with a bit to spare..
Look it's a head scratcher for sure and PD will hopefully have sorted out at least a start to fix this!
Good points raised there. Funny thing is Carlow have 4 senior clubs and they are pushing on well under Bonnar. I'm not sure what they have coming through at underage but to get to where they are at with 4 clubs is some achievement.
Geography helps them immensely - KK and Wexford right beside them but it'd be interesting to see how they do it.
Celtic Challenge is an excellent competition - U17 but with U16 development for the stronger counties. Great idea - loads of games in a short time frame.
Be good to roll it out at U15 level and U20 level.
Four clubs but a lot of juvenile games are played locally with other counties, Carlow have are an hour or do journey from Dublin so a lot of commuters living in Carlow rather Dublin which helps build clubs, Laois Kildare going immense work also,while Offaly need to be re-woken..
Antrim Down Derry need yo be pushing.. yes it's a journey it's time consuming but the rewards at the end is simple, quicker sharper hurling, kids developing better physically and mentally. Fear of playing bigger teams at senior level is gone..
The biggest disaster is not competing at school level, those teams are a hive of hurling while ours are not..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 11:09:25 PM
Four clubs but a lot of juvenile games are played locally with other counties, Carlow have are an hour or do journey from Dublin so a lot of commuters living in Carlow rather Dublin which helps build clubs, Laois Kildare going immense work also,while Offaly need to be re-woken..
Antrim Down Derry need yo be pushing.. yes it's a journey it's time consuming but the rewards at the end is simple, quicker sharper hurling, kids developing better physically and mentally. Fear of playing bigger teams at senior level is gone..
The biggest disaster is not competing at school level, those teams are a hive of hurling while ours are not..
To compete at Joe Mc D level is some achievement with only 4 senior clubs. They are consistent. Compare to Antrim and Derry etc. with 2/3 times the number of clubs.
Granted, they are hurling clubs only and that's where the 'issue' is! Derry clubs are dual clubs for the most part and football will be No. 1. L'giel, C'dall and Ballycastle are hurling clubs with Dunloy primarily hurling with a great football underage set over recent years.
Quote from: marty34 on January 30, 2019, 11:27:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 11:09:25 PM
Four clubs but a lot of juvenile games are played locally with other counties, Carlow have are an hour or do journey from Dublin so a lot of commuters living in Carlow rather Dublin which helps build clubs, Laois Kildare going immense work also,while Offaly need to be re-woken..
Antrim Down Derry need yo be pushing.. yes it's a journey it's time consuming but the rewards at the end is simple, quicker sharper hurling, kids developing better physically and mentally. Fear of playing bigger teams at senior level is gone..
The biggest disaster is not competing at school level, those teams are a hive of hurling while ours are not..
To compete at Joe Mc D level is some achievement with only 4 senior clubs. They are consistent. Compare to Antrim and Derry etc. with 2/3 times the number of clubs.
Granted, they are hurling clubs only and that's where the 'issue' is! Derry clubs are dual clubs for the most part and football will be No. 1. L'giel, C'dall and Ballycastle are hurling clubs with Dunloy primarily hurling with a great football underage set over recent years.
No problem with football being No.1 but I do have a problem when the fixtures are so badly planned that kids are forced to chose one over the other. That does not need to happen and happens far too often.
I've had games cancelled with dual clubs due to a football fixture being moved by a regional board to suit a development squad or other. That shouldn't happen and Croke Park need to insist that the Football No.1 County Boards set aside slots for dual clubs to take part in hurling unimpeded by football.
There's your starting point.
Then improve fixtures for clubs. The Tain league is a farce, don't need to say more.
Antrim CB are picking up the slack of other negligent county boards and asleep at the wheel Ulster Council, with teams from Down, Derry, Tyrone and Armagh looking to get into their leagues at underage and adult?
Martin Fogarty and some of his predecessors really need to start shaking the tree in Ulster as this bullshit visit once every blue moon is token gesture-ism of the highest order.
Someone needs to look at the structures of hurling in Ulster rather than run some fancy dan coaching courses once in a while.
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 08:16:06 PM
Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?
Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ? Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..
Bordering Kilkenny didn't really work for Waterford or Carlow
You have to build the culture in the county
Slaughtneil are a great example of what can be done with the right level of community involvement
Quote from: marty34 on January 30, 2019, 10:18:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 09:51:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 30, 2019, 09:29:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 08:16:06 PM
Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?
Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ? Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..
Club teams will always have a chance in All Ireland series i.e. to get to the club final as it's set up to suit Ulster teams in fairness.
If the Ulster club champions had to play Galway champs in quarter-final etc. to get to club All Ireland semi-final, it would be be tricky enough.
Rubbish Dunloy has beaten many a Top team to get to final. Loughgiel also, Cushendall to once.
How many Ulster teams have won the club All Ireland? I'm from Ulster!
The set up suits Ulster teams.
Loughgiel twice but other clubs have reached the all Ireland final a total of 7 times
Dunloy 4 times,
Ruairi Og, McQuillan, O Donovan Rossa once each ,
Quote from: seafoid on January 31, 2019, 04:54:27 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 30, 2019, 10:18:12 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 09:51:34 PM
Quote from: marty34 on January 30, 2019, 09:29:52 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 08:16:06 PM
Geography plays a huge part I know that, surrounding counties are strong and college and school hurling at s higher level also, do other than moving to bordering Kilkenny what's left?
Structures at club level have shown that club teams compete at all levels.. it's that step up to county level that proves the hardest, and why do Antrim have struggle to get athletic big skillfull hurlers (or football) ? Not winning primary ball or secondary ball was evident on Saturday but it's the same most years as we (in the main) can't physically win those tussles..
Club teams will always have a chance in All Ireland series i.e. to get to the club final as it's set up to suit Ulster teams in fairness.
If the Ulster club champions had to play Galway champs in quarter-final etc. to get to club All Ireland semi-final, it would be be tricky enough.
Rubbish Dunloy has beaten many a Top team to get to final. Loughgiel also, Cushendall to once.
How many Ulster teams have won the club All Ireland? I'm from Ulster!
The set up suits Ulster teams.
Loughgiel twice but other clubs have reached the all Ireland final a total of 7 times
Dunloy 4 times,
Ruairi Og, McQuillan, O Donovan Rossa once each ,
What I was saying is the current system suits Ulster clubs re: AI club semi-finals. On a good day, they'll beat the Munster champions in Parnell Pk etc.
Conversely how many times have Antrim/Down reached the All Ireland final since they changed the system i.e. provinical winners go straight into semi-final?
I'm actually surprised the Leinster and Munster haven't kicked up a fuss about this system to change it to a system similar to the minor system.
Quote from: johnnycool on January 31, 2019, 09:32:18 AM
Quote from: marty34 on January 30, 2019, 11:27:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 11:09:25 PM
Four clubs but a lot of juvenile games are played locally with other counties, Carlow have are an hour or do journey from Dublin so a lot of commuters living in Carlow rather Dublin which helps build clubs, Laois Kildare going immense work also,while Offaly need to be re-woken..
Antrim Down Derry need yo be pushing.. yes it's a journey it's time consuming but the rewards at the end is simple, quicker sharper hurling, kids developing better physically and mentally. Fear of playing bigger teams at senior level is gone..
The biggest disaster is not competing at school level, those teams are a hive of hurling while ours are not..
To compete at Joe Mc D level is some achievement with only 4 senior clubs. They are consistent. Compare to Antrim and Derry etc. with 2/3 times the number of clubs.
Granted, they are hurling clubs only and that's where the 'issue' is! Derry clubs are dual clubs for the most part and football will be No. 1. L'giel, C'dall and Ballycastle are hurling clubs with Dunloy primarily hurling with a great football underage set over recent years.
No problem with football being No.1 but I do have a problem when the fixtures are so badly planned that kids are forced to chose one over the other. That does not need to happen and happens far too often.
I've had games cancelled with dual clubs due to a football fixture being moved by a regional board to suit a development squad or other. That shouldn't happen and Croke Park need to insist that the Football No.1 County Boards set aside slots for dual clubs to take part in hurling unimpeded by football.
There's your starting point.
Then improve fixtures for clubs. The Tain league is a farce, don't need to say more.
Antrim CB are picking up the slack of other negligent county boards and asleep at the wheel Ulster Council, with teams from Down, Derry, Tyrone and Armagh looking to get into their leagues at underage and adult?
Martin Fogarty and some of his predecessors really need to start shaking the tree in Ulster as this bullshit visit once every blue moon is token gesture-ism of the highest order.
Someone needs to look at the structures of hurling in Ulster rather than run some fancy dan coaching courses once in a while.
I hear what you are saying JC and totally agree but the football counties will always put football at the top. That's life.
The issue with Táin league is it's for the hurling clubs in 'weaker 'counties - i always see loads of game conceded during the summer. Not sure why - football clashes? Be good to see how many games are actually played in it.
Re: Antrim league, esp. Div. 1 it's a good league. The reason the Táin league wouldn't work at a higher level is Antrim teams and 3 Ards teams wouldn't buy into it. Why would they when their league is as good as it is already.
Therefore other counties see no value in a Táin league if Antrim and PF, BC and BG are not in it.
Say over the last 20 years what was done incorrectly in terms of ulster hurling? Why didn't things move on from 20 years ago ?
Quote from: seafoid on January 31, 2019, 06:14:46 PM
Say over the last 20 years what was done incorrectly in terms of ulster hurling? Why didn't things move on from 20 years ago ?
Other counties kicked on, we stayed the same, we got flashes of what could have been, beating Dublin, the game against Wexford in 2003 still sticks in my throat, McFaul's catch OUTSIDE the square and laid it off for a goal to be disallowed is still one that get Antrim's back up.. Dinny was a great man at the time to coach and get the best out of that squad of players ..
We completely fell away after that, and if Antrim aren't competitive in Ulster then neither are the rest..
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 31, 2019, 08:17:42 PM
Quote from: seafoid on January 31, 2019, 06:14:46 PM
Say over the last 20 years what was done incorrectly in terms of ulster hurling? Why didn't things move on from 20 years ago ?
Other counties kicked on, we stayed the same, we got flashes of what could have been, beating Dublin, the game against Wexford in 2003 still sticks in my throat, McFaul's catch OUTSIDE the square and laid it off for a goal to be disallowed is still one that get Antrim's back up.. Dinny was a great man at the time to coach and get the best out of that squad of players ..
We completely fell away after that, and if Antrim aren't competitive in Ulster then neither are the rest..
Say for instance I'm a pretty good hurler from Loughgiel, Dunloy or Cushendall and I'm asked to go to the county set up where you're training all winter, playing Div1B at best, Div2A etc etc and then come the summer you're playing in very low profile games in Mullingar/Navan or wherever with one man and his dog at it and little or no media coverage.
Or
you stay at home, train and play away with the club, aiming to peak for the club championship final (far bigger crowds) and if successful have a very high chance of getting through an Ulster campaign and then a serious crack at an AI semi-final in February whilst you'll not be favourites will have a decent shout of a victory, especially in recent years where it's been a while since an Ulster team has been seriously out of their depth.
What would you chose?
Any detrimental changes to the club championship structures will be the death altogether of hurling in Ulster.
Quote from: marty34 on January 31, 2019, 05:57:17 PM
Quote from: johnnycool on January 31, 2019, 09:32:18 AM
Quote from: marty34 on January 30, 2019, 11:27:48 PM
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on January 30, 2019, 11:09:25 PM
Four clubs but a lot of juvenile games are played locally with other counties, Carlow have are an hour or do journey from Dublin so a lot of commuters living in Carlow rather Dublin which helps build clubs, Laois Kildare going immense work also,while Offaly need to be re-woken..
Antrim Down Derry need yo be pushing.. yes it's a journey it's time consuming but the rewards at the end is simple, quicker sharper hurling, kids developing better physically and mentally. Fear of playing bigger teams at senior level is gone..
The biggest disaster is not competing at school level, those teams are a hive of hurling while ours are not..
To compete at Joe Mc D level is some achievement with only 4 senior clubs. They are consistent. Compare to Antrim and Derry etc. with 2/3 times the number of clubs.
Granted, they are hurling clubs only and that's where the 'issue' is! Derry clubs are dual clubs for the most part and football will be No. 1. L'giel, C'dall and Ballycastle are hurling clubs with Dunloy primarily hurling with a great football underage set over recent years.
No problem with football being No.1 but I do have a problem when the fixtures are so badly planned that kids are forced to chose one over the other. That does not need to happen and happens far too often.
I've had games cancelled with dual clubs due to a football fixture being moved by a regional board to suit a development squad or other. That shouldn't happen and Croke Park need to insist that the Football No.1 County Boards set aside slots for dual clubs to take part in hurling unimpeded by football.
There's your starting point.
Then improve fixtures for clubs. The Tain league is a farce, don't need to say more.
Antrim CB are picking up the slack of other negligent county boards and asleep at the wheel Ulster Council, with teams from Down, Derry, Tyrone and Armagh looking to get into their leagues at underage and adult?
Martin Fogarty and some of his predecessors really need to start shaking the tree in Ulster as this bullshit visit once every blue moon is token gesture-ism of the highest order.
Someone needs to look at the structures of hurling in Ulster rather than run some fancy dan coaching courses once in a while.
I hear what you are saying JC and totally agree but the football counties will always put football at the top. That's life.
The issue with Táin league is it's for the hurling clubs in 'weaker 'counties - i always see loads of game conceded during the summer. Not sure why - football clashes? Be good to see how many games are actually played in it.
Re: Antrim league, esp. Div. 1 it's a good league. The reason the Táin league wouldn't work at a higher level is Antrim teams and 3 Ards teams wouldn't buy into it. Why would they when their league is as good as it is already.
Therefore other counties see no value in a Táin league if Antrim and PF, BC and BG are not in it.
Even the most ardent of football counties should be pressed to freeing up slots for club hurling by Croke Park and the fact that they are not speaks volumes, token gesture shite from Croke Park towards true hurling development in weaker counties and a lack of understanding by those in the various HDC's who ultimately aren't interested in hurling outside the top 10/12 counties is the real problem.
Quote from: seafoid on January 31, 2019, 06:14:46 PM
Say over the last 20 years what was done incorrectly in terms of ulster hurling? Why didn't things move on from 20 years ago ?
I think the system has exposed the flaws. When Antrim/Down went straight to an AI semi-final, they put up a decent show while Antrim got to final in '89. All looked well in the garden.
Couple this with the club scene- the great Dunloy team of the 90's getting to club finals while beating good teams from Munster and Leinster. Everybody thought hurling in Ulster was ok.
Take away the direct route to AI inter-county semi-final and Ulster is badly exposed. Slipping further down the liat.
I hear people saying, or have an opinion that Antrim should be beating Meath and Kerry etc. Why should they be thinking that? Tradition? It's a bit like people saying Derry shouln't be in Div. 4 in the football - they say they're too good to be there! What's that about? They're there because they deserve to be there. Meath have done great work at underage, so have Kerry.
Positively, good work is going on in Ulster, new regional clubs are being formed in various counties. We can't be too negative!! People may laugh at this (hurling snobbery if you will) but Cavan seniors are back hurling at inter county level. They won last week - that's a positive.
I was talking traditionally with regards to beating Kerry and co.. we've let our standards slip certainty for last 15 + years, they've improved theirs, interesting to note that theses counties wouldn't have a team that would be pushing for all Ireland club titles. Baring MLR of Carlow of course
Quote from: Milltown Row2 on February 03, 2019, 10:28:58 AM
I was talking traditionally with regards to beating Kerry and co.. we've let our standards slip certainty for last 15 + years, they've improved theirs, interesting to note that theses counties wouldn't have a team that would be pushing for all Ireland club titles. Baring MLR of Carlow of course
Fair point MR. If you are without 7/8 players, who are training for an AI club semi-final, from November onwards, then the county will suffer in the national league. Very hard to get them back on track with the county then I think, due to a combination of reasons.
Conversely, Kerry, with no team progressing in Munster, can take a break, then focus from November onwards on the county scene. Continuity is hard to beat with the same panel training together from before Christmas.
County boards in Antrim, kerry, laois, westmeath and carlow need to vehemently oppose the new league structure for 2020. Counties ranked 9-12 will be lumped in with more counties that are 15+ points their superior. A defeat of less than 8 in a game of hurling can help weaker teams learn to hurl at a faster pace but big beatings help nobody. The current league format offers more competitive games for every county.
Top counties are arguing that its easier win an all ireland from 1B coz you can wait for a league quarter final to go up a gear. If this is the case why do 1A counties fight relegation so strongly. Experiment in the league, stay up in 1A or get relegated to the utopia of 1B. Either way hurling is not really weakened in your county. The proposed 2020 league will bring huge beatings week after week for teams ranked 9 to 12.
Quote from: SpeculativeEffort on February 03, 2019, 01:29:07 PM
County boards in Antrim, kerry, laois, westmeath and carlow need to vehemently oppose the new league structure for 2020. Counties ranked 9-12 will be lumped in with more counties that are 15+ points their superior. A defeat of less than 8 in a game of hurling can help weaker teams learn to hurl at a faster pace but big beatings help nobody. The current league format offers more competitive games for every county.
Top counties are arguing that its easier win an all ireland from 1B coz you can wait for a league quarter final to go up a gear. If this is the case why do 1A counties fight relegation so strongly. Experiment in the league, stay up in 1A or get relegated to the utopia of 1B. Either way hurling is not really weakened in your county. The proposed 2020 league will bring huge beatings week after week for teams ranked 9 to 12.
It's always the top 9 counties protecting their patch.
Look at how they treated the Ring and Rackard finals - minors players from the top counties were more important
Hurling snobbery
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 03, 2019, 06:50:43 PM
Quote from: SpeculativeEffort on February 03, 2019, 01:29:07 PM
County boards in Antrim, kerry, laois, westmeath and carlow need to vehemently oppose the new league structure for 2020. Counties ranked 9-12 will be lumped in with more counties that are 15+ points their superior. A defeat of less than 8 in a game of hurling can help weaker teams learn to hurl at a faster pace but big beatings help nobody. The current league format offers more competitive games for every county.
Top counties are arguing that its easier win an all ireland from 1B coz you can wait for a league quarter final to go up a gear. If this is the case why do 1A counties fight relegation so strongly. Experiment in the league, stay up in 1A or get relegated to the utopia of 1B. Either way hurling is not really weakened in your county. The proposed 2020 league will bring huge beatings week after week for teams ranked 9 to 12.
It's always the top 9 counties protecting their patch.
Look at how they treated the Ring and Rackard finals - minors players from the top counties were more important
Hurling snobbery
Their in 'inner circle' in hurling now that the leagues are organised the way they are. Hard to break into this.
First thing is Mc Donagh Cup needs live programmes and a highlights programme by itself. TG4 should do this/be allowed to do it as it'd raise the profile of these counties and players. Some great hurling on show in Joe Mc Donagh.
Great competition and finally has addressed the fact that the ring was mostly won easy by one team and was generally unbalanced in most of the games.
I don't think the gaa have ever seriously looked at things outside the big counties.
Quote from: SpeculativeEffort on February 03, 2019, 01:29:07 PM
County boards in Antrim, kerry, laois, westmeath and carlow need to vehemently oppose the new league structure for 2020. Counties ranked 9-12 will be lumped in with more counties that are 15+ points their superior. A defeat of less than 8 in a game of hurling can help weaker teams learn to hurl at a faster pace but big beatings help nobody. The current league format offers more competitive games for every county.
Top counties are arguing that its easier win an all ireland from 1B coz you can wait for a league quarter final to go up a gear. If this is the case why do 1A counties fight relegation so strongly. Experiment in the league, stay up in 1A or get relegated to the utopia of 1B. Either way hurling is not really weakened in your county. The proposed 2020 league will bring huge beatings week after week for teams ranked 9 to 12.
I don't think there's a relegation from Div. 1A this year and no promotion from 1B. There is a relagation from 1B though...I think.
You have a point though. Why do teams avoid relegation from a competitive 1A. while the last 2 All Ireland winners have come from 1B.
I think also that it's been a long time, possibly never, that neither of the 2 league finalists (KK & Tipp) reached the All Ireland semi final.
Over the next few years, we'll see if it's a one off or a trend!
It's worse than the top rugby nations trying to keep the other smaller rugby nations from getting to the top table
There is almost no avenue for a developing county in hurling to get to the top tier
And If there's a chance one of the top tier will drop down, they change the format
Quote from: manfromdelmonte on February 03, 2019, 08:12:48 PM
It's worse than the top rugby nations trying to keep the other smaller rugby nations from getting to the top table
There is almost no avenue for a developing county in hurling to get to the top tier
And If there's a chance one of the top tier will drop down, they change the format
And they get away with it because most of the counties impacted are "football" counties whose delegates don't give a shit.
Only getting back to this now but I would be in general agreement with all the points made about the top counties protecting their interests (in fairness thats their job) but the top decision makers in the GAA shouldnt allow it. Everyone one here should be tweeting, posting on fb, texting the various podcasts to get the message across that the league revamp is unfair on developing counties.
The GAA should be funding Fitzgibbon teams in Sligo IT, Athlone IT and in UUJ to allow an avenue for lads in these counties to upskill and play at a high level. Look what a good Fitzgibbon set up in Carlow IT has done for Carlow hurling. Massive strides made. These are practical ways to balance the playing field.