Roscommon v Armagh

Started by illdecide, July 02, 2018, 10:06:15 AM

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Tim’s Hero

[No, but if they had played as you wished, then right now they would have finished the season as part of our squad. Would you have kept them on as each player accumulates another year? If you do not, then you are removing a sizeable chunk of the squad which will necessitate rebuilding. If you keep them on, then you are relying on them again for next year, as they advance to their late thirties]



Rufus I understand you don't know much regarding the workings of team panels, but please don't be showing your ignorance on here , this is not U12's where you could lose half your team , to avoid your scenario above takes planning , {the managers job ie aforementioned 5 year plan which must have been thrown in bin after county board interview}



Rufus T Firefly

#361
Quote from: Tim's Hero on July 11, 2018, 07:38:40 AM
Rufus I understand you don't know much regarding the workings of team panels, but please don't be showing your ignorance on here , this is not U12's where you could lose half your team , to avoid your scenario above takes planning ,

Funny, rebuilding takes planning - the manager's job as you've pointed out - and for which you were criticizing Geezer that rebuilding was still required.

Quote from: Tim's Hero on July 11, 2018, 07:38:40 AM
ie aforementioned 5 year plan which must have been thrown in bin after county board interview}

Yes, not the first time you've mentioned the 5 year plan and not the first time I'm going to ask you to provide a link to it.

You've shown an excellent knack of pointedly ignoring questions directed at you, so I'm not hopeful you'll produce something here.

Edit - well to be fair, I'll hold my hands up on that one. I had a wee trawl myself there and see a number of references and links to it, - and yet, when I ask about this within County Board circles there is an insistence that five years was never actually stipulated anywhere, and I am aware that Geezer's tenure has been ratified each subsequent year for the following year. The 5 year plan does tend to be used as stick by the Geezer out Brigade.

seafoid

I had a look there at Geezer's stats over the last 5 years

2014
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter Final in championship

2015
Promoted to D2
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Galway in R2

2016
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Laois in Round 1

2017
Stayed in D3
No matches won in ulster
Reached Quarter Final

2018
Promoted to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter final

In geography the name for this is meandering.

I think focusing on the qualifiers is misleading because it all depends on the draw. If a Geezer team plays a half decent team in Round 1 it will probably lose.

Roscommon for the moment would be a peer of Armagh's and they have won a provincial title in the last 5 years. They have also got to D1 twice.  Even Cavan are more consistent.

Armagh are surely capable of more.

This is important because we need more variety at the top. 20 years ago you had Meath, Kerry, Galway. Mayo  and Kildare operating at a high level (capable of winning an all Ireland) with Armagh and Tyrone ag teacht. 
Now there is Dublin . It's like a monoculture.

There are specific reasons for the declines of Armagh, Down, Meath, Cork but they are also part of a system.

I don't see Armagh going anywhere under the current leadership.
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

manfromdelmonte

Quote from: seafoid on July 11, 2018, 08:53:43 AM
I had a look there at Geezer's stats over the last 5 years

2014
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter Final in championship

2015
Promoted to D2
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Galway in R2

2016
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Laois in Round 1

2017
Stayed in D3
No matches won in ulster
Reached Quarter Final

2018
Promoted to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter final

In geography the name for this is meandering.

I think focusing on the qualifiers is misleading because it all depends on the draw. If a Geezer team plays a half decent team in Round 1 it will probably lose.

Roscommon for the moment would be a peer of Armagh's and they have won a provincial title in the last 5 years. They have also got to D1 twice.  Even Cavan are more consistent.

Armagh are surely capable of more.

This is important because we need more variety at the top. 20 years ago you had Meath, Kerry, Galway. Mayo  and Kildare operating at a high level (capable of winning an all Ireland) with Armagh and Tyrone ag teacht. 
Now there is Dublin . It's like a monoculture.

There are specific reasons for the declines of Armagh, Down, Meath, Cork but they are also part of a system.

I don't see Armagh going anywhere under the current leadership.
Provincial championship is the bread and butter for county teams
Its a pretty poor record

mackers

Quote from: manfromdelmonte on July 11, 2018, 08:59:34 AM
Provincial championship is the bread and butter for county teams
Its a pretty poor record
The reason for this is straightforward.  Geezer has this Armagh team playing expansive football.  It's great to watch and has led us to watch some seriously entertaining matches over the last couple of years.  Once we come up against a defensive system we struggle.  Needless to say Ulster championship football is defensive for the most part.  Once we move away from this environment into the qualifiers this team can play the way it wants to.  If we have any ambitions in Ulster this is something that the management have to address over the winter months.
With regard to getting players back into the fold I feel Geezer has to relax his control over the players with respect to playing for their clubs.  Obviously if lads are cut off from their clubs when they join the county panel this will have a detrimental effect on players within some of the more ambitious clubs.  It would be naive to imagine him letting them play willy nilly but if there were listed matches like the setup in Monaghan, for example, agreed at the start of the year perhaps he would have a greater take up from senior clubs.
Keep your pecker hard and your powder dry and the world will turn.

Throw ball

Quote from: seafoid on July 11, 2018, 08:53:43 AM
I had a look there at Geezer's stats over the last 5 years

2014
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter Final in championship

2015
Promoted to D2
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Galway in R2

2016
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Laois in Round 1

2017
Stayed in D3
No matches won in ulster
Reached Quarter Final

2018
Promoted to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter final

In geography the name for this is meandering.

I think focusing on the qualifiers is misleading because it all depends on the draw. If a Geezer team plays a half decent team in Round 1 it will probably lose.

Roscommon for the moment would be a peer of Armagh's and they have won a provincial title in the last 5 years. They have also got to D1 twice.  Even Cavan are more consistent.

Armagh are surely capable of more.

This is important because we need more variety at the top. 20 years ago you had Meath, Kerry, Galway. Mayo  and Kildare operating at a high level (capable of winning an all Ireland) with Armagh and Tyrone ag teacht. 
Now there is Dublin . It's like a monoculture.

There are specific reasons for the declines of Armagh, Down, Meath, Cork but they are also part of a system.

I don't see Armagh going anywhere under the current leadership.

Paul Grimley was manager in 2014 and they lost Ulster semi final after a replay to Monaghan.

Dougal Maguire

And lost by a point to Donegal in the All Ireland quarter final
Careful now

seafoid

Quote from: Throw ball on July 11, 2018, 09:16:14 AM
Quote from: seafoid on July 11, 2018, 08:53:43 AM
I had a look there at Geezer's stats over the last 5 years

2014
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter Final in championship

2015
Promoted to D2
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Galway in R2

2016
Relegated to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Lost to Laois in Round 1

2017
Stayed in D3
No matches won in ulster
Reached Quarter Final

2018
Promoted to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter final

In geography the name for this is meandering.

I think focusing on the qualifiers is misleading because it all depends on the draw. If a Geezer team plays a half decent team in Round 1 it will probably lose.

Roscommon for the moment would be a peer of Armagh's and they have won a provincial title in the last 5 years. They have also got to D1 twice.  Even Cavan are more consistent.

Armagh are surely capable of more.

This is important because we need more variety at the top. 20 years ago you had Meath, Kerry, Galway. Mayo  and Kildare operating at a high level (capable of winning an all Ireland) with Armagh and Tyrone ag teacht. 
Now there is Dublin . It's like a monoculture.

There are specific reasons for the declines of Armagh, Down, Meath, Cork but they are also part of a system.

I don't see Armagh going anywhere under the current leadership.

Paul Grimley was manager in 2014 and they lost Ulster semi final after a replay to Monaghan.
My mistake .Anyway it is a poor record
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

bennydorano

We're a small enough county who experienced a decade of relatively huge success, we've just just went back to our normal level. The people raised on the success of the Noughties have a lot of unrealistic expectations.

1953, 77, 02 & 03, We're due another great team in circa 2027/8.


Tim’s Hero

Didn't Jarlath Burns say the same thing on the Sunday Game a few years ago ?? With attitude like that Armagh will constantly be a yo yo team , time to rip up that template and start again .

Captain Obvious

Quote from: seafoid on July 11, 2018, 08:53:43 AM
2018
Promoted to D3
No matches won in Ulster
Reached Quarter final

So its Tyrone v Armagh in Croke Park this Saturday I'd better buy my ticket...

Rufus T Firefly

Quote from: Tim's Hero on July 11, 2018, 01:34:39 PM
Didn't Jarlath Burns say the same thing on the Sunday Game a few years ago ?? With attitude like that Armagh will constantly be a yo yo team , time to rip up that template and start again .

Rebuild?

omagh_gael

How many club games did the county men play this year? In Tyrone or lads have played 6/7 matches so far (out of 12 games in total).

Tim’s Hero

To rebuild you need to start at the foundations and work your way up , then put a roof on ,make it weathertight and only then do you worry about the finishes , fixtures and fittings. Paramount to a successful build is using a competent contractor with a track record of delivering projects on time within budget and to the necessary quality. Your contractor should also be able to demonstrate his track record.
If you follow the analogy you would realise Armagh are failing on all fronts , strategic long term planning needed like Dublin,Tyrone , Kerry .
If we follow your thought process , let McGeeney gather up whoever he can at the start of the year and see how we get on , then make excuses for a couple of months and go again.
You might be happy with that but a lot of Armagh people disagree and would like change , not for change sake , but for the betterment of all things Armagh .

Solo_run

Quote from: Tim's Hero on July 11, 2018, 03:36:17 PM
To rebuild you need to start at the foundations and work your way up , then put a roof on ,make it weathertight and only then do you worry about the finishes , fixtures and fittings. Paramount to a successful build is using a competent contractor with a track record of delivering projects on time within budget and to the necessary quality. Your contractor should also be able to demonstrate his track record.
If you follow the analogy you would realise Armagh are failing on all fronts , strategic long term planning needed like Dublin,Tyrone , Kerry .
If we follow your thought process , let McGeeney gather up whoever he can at the start of the year and see how we get on , then make excuses for a couple of months and go again.
You might be happy with that but a lot of Armagh people disagree and would like change , not for change sake , but for the betterment of all things Armagh .

Then what if this is all we have to offer?

Just on a side note would Grimley not consider coming back in to the setup?