Games on TV this weekend

[BennyCake]

You are in absolute lala land if you think McGranes closed fist was worse than Riceys knee drop.  Absolute bonkers. 

Ethan, meet Angelo...

We've had some all star quality blinkeredness over the years. Syferus, Indiana, some of the real greats. But this guy could well top the lot.

Not a sliver of Tyrone minutiae ever escapes his revision. His county men must burst with pride reading these contributions.

So you have an issue with balance?

I've made no attempts to defend what McMenamin did, it's quite clearcut.

There's a few lads who have tried to defend what McGrane did, which is also fairly clearcut. I think you're preaching to the wrong choir here.

Brian McGuigan getting a wee touch in another thread there. Go do your thing.

Here you go with your Tyrone persecution complex again. He's not getting 'a wee touch'. Just some people saying how much he was rated as a player. He's hardly being run out of town with pitchforks.

[tonto1888]

Jaysus Tyrone were robbed that day. Robbed.

Robbed me hole.

McMenamins foot block (that's a penalty), knees on McEntee, elbowing another, and still no red card?

McEntee through on goal fouled by Cavanagh, nothing given.

Take off your red tinted glasses

It's amazing people still talk about what Ricey did that day and barely a dickey bird on what Paul McGrane did. A filthy closed fist tackle on McGuigan that caught him around the face and should have been a straight red and later on in the game he left the knees in on Gormley after he was fouled.

Did McGrane get a ban after that match?

McGrane's was during play. McMen's wasn't. Plenty of players tackle with a closed fist. But it was mistimed and it should have been red. I won't deny that. By the way, it was Jordan.

Don't recall the Gormley incident. Was it shown last night?

Tyrone got the lawyers in, and got their innocent lads off. McGrane ban was overturned too.

What difference does that make?

Both were done with intent and malice, the force of McGrane's swing was a lot more dangerous than McMenamin's if anything.

The Gormley incident was shown last night, McGrane went in with his knees on a prone Gormley rather than dropping on him, again very dangerous at the minimum.

Can't remember if McGrane got a ban at the time but it was reckless at the minimum and you don't tackle with a close fist with that kind of force unless you want to do a bit of damage.

You cannot for one second say for sure if McGrane meant to do damage or not with that tackle. He should have been red carded though, that's beyond doubt. McMenamin on the other hand....

I had also forgotten about some of your players tendency to grip an opponents arm and fall to ground winning a free. Sneaky. Refs should have been wise to it

I can say it.

Tackling with a closed fist is absolutely illegal and incredibly dangerous, particularly with the force and height McGrane went at it with. It was an absolute nailed on red card and incredibly reckless which could have made a bloodbath of Jordans face if it connected properly.

You should have watched some of the Armagh player grabbing arms too, Brian Mallon was a great man to engineer a free in that manner, McConville as well.

What McMenamin did was nasty, what McGrane did was completely reckless and probably even more dangerous that McMenamin.

McGrane's was one of those cheap shots that regularly get passed off as macho stuff. They should be clamped down on and serious bans handed out because if they connect you're looking a lad getting 20 stitches or losing 3 or 4 teeth.

They were two great teams who were each capable of crossing the line, Tyrone just had that bit more of guile about them. It was clear as day though that Armagh were targetting an awful lot of Tyrone players with late hits off the ball in that game. McNulty, McGrane, McEntee and McKeever were all upending Tyrone runners coming through after they had played the ball.

Nah. You can't say it at all. Not with any certainty. Are we talking about MeMenamim dropping the knees on McEntee or elbowing McCann? That was some rivalry and I had a severe hatred of that Tyrone team at the time. Looking back on it you have to admire them. ONeill in particular was an amazing player. Dooher another though in a completely different way. However, ricey, Jordan and Cavanagh are irredeemable IMO. Obviously you will have different opinions to me but that's football

You can say it fairly certainly.

Look at the motion of McGrane, if you're going for the ball you raise your hand up and slap it down. McGrane has drawn his arm back and with a closed fist has tried to burst Jordan as the term goes, there's no doubt about it there, he's tried to do him there and disguise it as a tackle. It wasn't mistimed, it was a completely illegal and reckless challenge that should have been a straight red card and could have caused Jordan a serious injury had it caught him flush.

Elbowing McCann was a retaliatory reaction to McCann dragging out of him after the free had been awarded and stopping him from taking the quick one.

It takes two to tango and Armagh got away with an awful lot more in that game than Tyrone did, it was clear as day that they went out to rough Tyrone up so it's a little rich that they draw so much anger over Ricey giving them a bit of it back.

So McMenamin dropping the knees on McEntee was ok and it was ok to elbow McCann as McCann dragged him a bit. Okeydokey

[Angelo]

Jaysus Tyrone were robbed that day. Robbed.

Robbed me hole.

McMenamins foot block (that's a penalty), knees on McEntee, elbowing another, and still no red card?

McEntee through on goal fouled by Cavanagh, nothing given.

Take off your red tinted glasses

It's amazing people still talk about what Ricey did that day and barely a dickey bird on what Paul McGrane did. A filthy closed fist tackle on McGuigan that caught him around the face and should have been a straight red and later on in the game he left the knees in on Gormley after he was fouled.

Did McGrane get a ban after that match?

McGrane's was during play. McMen's wasn't. Plenty of players tackle with a closed fist. But it was mistimed and it should have been red. I won't deny that. By the way, it was Jordan.

Don't recall the Gormley incident. Was it shown last night?

Tyrone got the lawyers in, and got their innocent lads off. McGrane ban was overturned too.

What difference does that make?

Both were done with intent and malice, the force of McGrane's swing was a lot more dangerous than McMenamin's if anything.

The Gormley incident was shown last night, McGrane went in with his knees on a prone Gormley rather than dropping on him, again very dangerous at the minimum.

Can't remember if McGrane got a ban at the time but it was reckless at the minimum and you don't tackle with a close fist with that kind of force unless you want to do a bit of damage.

You cannot for one second say for sure if McGrane meant to do damage or not with that tackle. He should have been red carded though, that's beyond doubt. McMenamin on the other hand....

I had also forgotten about some of your players tendency to grip an opponents arm and fall to ground winning a free. Sneaky. Refs should have been wise to it

I can say it.

Tackling with a closed fist is absolutely illegal and incredibly dangerous, particularly with the force and height McGrane went at it with. It was an absolute nailed on red card and incredibly reckless which could have made a bloodbath of Jordans face if it connected properly.

You should have watched some of the Armagh player grabbing arms too, Brian Mallon was a great man to engineer a free in that manner, McConville as well.

What McMenamin did was nasty, what McGrane did was completely reckless and probably even more dangerous that McMenamin.

McGrane's was one of those cheap shots that regularly get passed off as macho stuff. They should be clamped down on and serious bans handed out because if they connect you're looking a lad getting 20 stitches or losing 3 or 4 teeth.

They were two great teams who were each capable of crossing the line, Tyrone just had that bit more of guile about them. It was clear as day though that Armagh were targetting an awful lot of Tyrone players with late hits off the ball in that game. McNulty, McGrane, McEntee and McKeever were all upending Tyrone runners coming through after they had played the ball.

Nah. You can't say it at all. Not with any certainty. Are we talking about MeMenamim dropping the knees on McEntee or elbowing McCann? That was some rivalry and I had a severe hatred of that Tyrone team at the time. Looking back on it you have to admire them. ONeill in particular was an amazing player. Dooher another though in a completely different way. However, ricey, Jordan and Cavanagh are irredeemable IMO. Obviously you will have different opinions to me but that's football

You can say it fairly certainly.

Look at the motion of McGrane, if you're going for the ball you raise your hand up and slap it down. McGrane has drawn his arm back and with a closed fist has tried to burst Jordan as the term goes, there's no doubt about it there, he's tried to do him there and disguise it as a tackle. It wasn't mistimed, it was a completely illegal and reckless challenge that should have been a straight red card and could have caused Jordan a serious injury had it caught him flush.

Elbowing McCann was a retaliatory reaction to McCann dragging out of him after the free had been awarded and stopping him from taking the quick one.

It takes two to tango and Armagh got away with an awful lot more in that game than Tyrone did, it was clear as day that they went out to rough Tyrone up so it's a little rich that they draw so much anger over Ricey giving them a bit of it back.

So McMenamin dropping the knees on McEntee was ok and it was ok to elbow McCann as McCann dragged him a bit. Okeydokey

Nowhere at all has that been said, I have reiterated from start to finish that there is no defending McMenamin dropping the knees, he knew what he was at, it's clearcut.

So you are now trying to imagine things that fit in with your narrative. The point I made was balance, there's no defending McMenamin - there is also no defending McGrane - even though the Armagh lads are doing a good job at defending the indefensible.

McMenamin knew what he was at, there's no defending it as did McGrane.

[trailer]

McMenamin was a p***k on and off the field. It was a cowards act and anyone defending him would want to have a word with themselves. There was no sportsmanship in him. Anytime him or Dromore were getting best he started a row.

[GetOverTheBar]

McMenamin was a p***k on and off the field. It was a cowards act and anyone defending him would want to have a word with themselves. There was no sportsmanship in him. Anytime him or Dromore were getting best he started a row.

Couldn't be further from the truth if you tried.

[tonto1888]

McMenamin was a p***k on and off the field. It was a cowards act and anyone defending him would want to have a word with themselves. There was no sportsmanship in him. Anytime him or Dromore were getting best he started a row.

Couldn't be further from the truth if you tried.

I've heard he was a nice lad off the field. Never met him so couldn't comment

[tonto1888]

Jaysus Tyrone were robbed that day. Robbed.

Robbed me hole.

McMenamins foot block (that's a penalty), knees on McEntee, elbowing another, and still no red card?

McEntee through on goal fouled by Cavanagh, nothing given.

Take off your red tinted glasses

It's amazing people still talk about what Ricey did that day and barely a dickey bird on what Paul McGrane did. A filthy closed fist tackle on McGuigan that caught him around the face and should have been a straight red and later on in the game he left the knees in on Gormley after he was fouled.

Did McGrane get a ban after that match?

McGrane's was during play. McMen's wasn't. Plenty of players tackle with a closed fist. But it was mistimed and it should have been red. I won't deny that. By the way, it was Jordan.

Don't recall the Gormley incident. Was it shown last night?

Tyrone got the lawyers in, and got their innocent lads off. McGrane ban was overturned too.

What difference does that make?

Both were done with intent and malice, the force of McGrane's swing was a lot more dangerous than McMenamin's if anything.

The Gormley incident was shown last night, McGrane went in with his knees on a prone Gormley rather than dropping on him, again very dangerous at the minimum.

Can't remember if McGrane got a ban at the time but it was reckless at the minimum and you don't tackle with a close fist with that kind of force unless you want to do a bit of damage.

You cannot for one second say for sure if McGrane meant to do damage or not with that tackle. He should have been red carded though, that's beyond doubt. McMenamin on the other hand....

I had also forgotten about some of your players tendency to grip an opponents arm and fall to ground winning a free. Sneaky. Refs should have been wise to it

I can say it.

Tackling with a closed fist is absolutely illegal and incredibly dangerous, particularly with the force and height McGrane went at it with. It was an absolute nailed on red card and incredibly reckless which could have made a bloodbath of Jordans face if it connected properly.

You should have watched some of the Armagh player grabbing arms too, Brian Mallon was a great man to engineer a free in that manner, McConville as well.

What McMenamin did was nasty, what McGrane did was completely reckless and probably even more dangerous that McMenamin.

McGrane's was one of those cheap shots that regularly get passed off as macho stuff. They should be clamped down on and serious bans handed out because if they connect you're looking a lad getting 20 stitches or losing 3 or 4 teeth.

They were two great teams who were each capable of crossing the line, Tyrone just had that bit more of guile about them. It was clear as day though that Armagh were targetting an awful lot of Tyrone players with late hits off the ball in that game. McNulty, McGrane, McEntee and McKeever were all upending Tyrone runners coming through after they had played the ball.

Nah. You can't say it at all. Not with any certainty. Are we talking about MeMenamim dropping the knees on McEntee or elbowing McCann? That was some rivalry and I had a severe hatred of that Tyrone team at the time. Looking back on it you have to admire them. ONeill in particular was an amazing player. Dooher another though in a completely different way. However, ricey, Jordan and Cavanagh are irredeemable IMO. Obviously you will have different opinions to me but that's football

You can say it fairly certainly.

Look at the motion of McGrane, if you're going for the ball you raise your hand up and slap it down. McGrane has drawn his arm back and with a closed fist has tried to burst Jordan as the term goes, there's no doubt about it there, he's tried to do him there and disguise it as a tackle. It wasn't mistimed, it was a completely illegal and reckless challenge that should have been a straight red card and could have caused Jordan a serious injury had it caught him flush.

Elbowing McCann was a retaliatory reaction to McCann dragging out of him after the free had been awarded and stopping him from taking the quick one.

It takes two to tango and Armagh got away with an awful lot more in that game than Tyrone did, it was clear as day that they went out to rough Tyrone up so it's a little rich that they draw so much anger over Ricey giving them a bit of it back.

So McMenamin dropping the knees on McEntee was ok and it was ok to elbow McCann as McCann dragged him a bit. Okeydokey

Nowhere at all has that been said, I have reiterated from start to finish that there is no defending McMenamin dropping the knees, he knew what he was at, it's clearcut.

So you are now trying to imagine things that fit in with your narrative. The point I made was balance, there's no defending McMenamin - there is also no defending McGrane - even though the Armagh lads are doing a good job at defending the indefensible.

McMenamin knew what he was at, there's no defending it as did McGrane.

You defended him elbowing McCann in the face. You also said Armagh players were at it and McMenamin gave a bit back. Or wasn't that you?
Haven't seen anyone defend McGrane. He should have been red carded

[Angelo]

You defended him elbowing McCann in the face. You also said Armagh players were at it and McMenamin gave a bit back. Or wasn't that you?
Haven't seen anyone defend McGrane. He should have been red carded

I didn't defend him at all. I said it as it was, a retaliatory action to McCann dragging him back trying to stop him taking a quick free, as it was. Could have been a red card but a fairly common action in those situations to swing your arms back to free yourself. McCann wasn't caught, referee didn't take any action.

This is just absurd posting from you. You defended McGrane, now you're saying you didn't. You're accusing me of defending McMenamin when I've said from the very outset there is no defending him dropping the knees on McEntee. From the very outset I said McMenamin knew full well what he was doing and it can't be defended.

Meanwhile on McGrane who you are now saying you didn't defend him, you offered up the following excuses:

- McGrane's was during play.
- It was mistimed
- You cannot for one second say for sure if McGrane meant to do damage or not with that tackle
- Plenty of players tackle with a closed fist

Did Paul McGrane clothesline you with a closed fist challenge today or is there another reason why you've a bad case of short term amnesia?

[tonto1888]

You defended him elbowing McCann in the face. You also said Armagh players were at it and McMenamin gave a bit back. Or wasn't that you?
Haven't seen anyone defend McGrane. He should have been red carded

I didn't defend him at all. I said it as it was, a retaliatory action to McCann dragging him back trying to stop him taking a quick free, as it was. Could have been a red card but a fairly common action in those situations to swing your arms back to free yourself. McCann wasn't caught, referee didn't take any action.

This is just absurd posting from you. You defended McGrane, now you're saying you didn't. You're accusing me of defending McMenamin when I've said from the very outset there is no defending him dropping the knees on McEntee. From the very outset I said McMenamin knew full well what he was doing and it can't be defended.

Meanwhile on McGrane who you are now saying you didn't defend him, you offered up the following excuses:

- McGrane's was during play.
- It was mistimed
- You cannot for one second say for sure if McGrane meant to do damage or not with that tackle
- Plenty of players tackle with a closed fist

Did Paul McGrane clothesline you with a closed fist challenge today or is there another reason why you've a bad case of short term amnesia?

At no stage did I defend McGrane. I said, and I stand by it, you cannot say for certain that McGrane meant to hurt Jordan. I said it should have been a red card. I never defended him. I didn't bring up the fact it was during play or that plenty of players tackle with a closed fist. They do but that's neither here nor there. McGrane should have picked up a second yellow for that tackle

[Angelo]

You defended him elbowing McCann in the face. You also said Armagh players were at it and McMenamin gave a bit back. Or wasn't that you?
Haven't seen anyone defend McGrane. He should have been red carded

I didn't defend him at all. I said it as it was, a retaliatory action to McCann dragging him back trying to stop him taking a quick free, as it was. Could have been a red card but a fairly common action in those situations to swing your arms back to free yourself. McCann wasn't caught, referee didn't take any action.

This is just absurd posting from you. You defended McGrane, now you're saying you didn't. You're accusing me of defending McMenamin when I've said from the very outset there is no defending him dropping the knees on McEntee. From the very outset I said McMenamin knew full well what he was doing and it can't be defended.

Meanwhile on McGrane who you are now saying you didn't defend him, you offered up the following excuses:

- McGrane's was during play.
- It was mistimed
- You cannot for one second say for sure if McGrane meant to do damage or not with that tackle
- Plenty of players tackle with a closed fist

Did Paul McGrane clothesline you with a closed fist challenge today or is there another reason why you've a bad case of short term amnesia?

At no stage did I defend McGrane. I said, and I stand by it, you cannot say for certain that McGrane meant to hurt Jordan. I said it should have been a red card. I never defended him. I didn't bring up the fact it was during play or that plenty of players tackle with a closed fist. They do but that's neither here nor there. McGrane should have picked up a second yellow for that tackle

If you weren't defending him then why did you list 4 different excuses for him?

You can say for certain that a guy who uses an illegal tackle with excessive force with the incorrect striking action and goes absolutley nowhere near where the ball was simply going to do Jordan. Absolutely no doubt about. When you draw back a closed fist and bury it as hard as you can at an opponent coming through then you are trying to do him which is exactly what McGrane did.

Look I could come in here and try and defend McMenamin for his collapse on McEntee but there's no point, it's clear as day and so is McGrane's yet you're trying to defend it - through multiples layers. Just be brave enough to call McGrane's actions for what they were - a cheap hit that could have caused serious damage to Jordan.

McGrane should have picked up a straight red for the Jordan one and he could very easily have got another straight red about 10 minutes later for going in with his knees on a prone Gormley.

[tonto1888]

You need to reread everything here. You are capable of that aren't ye? I said you can't say for certain that McGrane went in to do Jordan. Unless you have actually talked to him and he told you or you are him. It doesn't matter tho, he should have been sent off. I haven't listed any excuses for him

[Angelo]

You need to reread everything here. You are capable of that aren't ye? I said you can't say for certain that McGrane went in to do Jordan. Unless you have actually talked to him and he told you or you are him. It doesn't matter tho, he should have been sent off. I haven't listed any excuses for him

Why don't you apply your own logic to yourself as you're talking out both sides of your mouth. If you weren't trying to defend McGrane, you would not have offered any excuse up, you offered four.

I could offer the same "you don't know for certain" line with Ricey, but it wouldn't wash and it doesn't wash with McGrane. It wasn't some accident with McGrane, he knew full well what he was doing - he's tackled with a closed fist for a start - an illegal and very dangerous tackle, he's used all the force he had, he's high and absolutely nowhere near the ball. He was going to do Jordan, he wanted to leave something on him - Enda McNulty cost Armagh an All Ireland a year earlier by trying to do something similar to the Fermanagh player.

[BennyCake]

You defended him elbowing McCann in the face. You also said Armagh players were at it and McMenamin gave a bit back. Or wasn't that you?
Haven't seen anyone defend McGrane. He should have been red carded

I didn't defend him at all. I said it as it was, a retaliatory action to McCann dragging him back trying to stop him taking a quick free, as it was. Could have been a red card but a fairly common action in those situations to swing your arms back to free yourself. McCann wasn't caught, referee didn't take any action.

This is just absurd posting from you. You defended McGrane, now you're saying you didn't. You're accusing me of defending McMenamin when I've said from the very outset there is no defending him dropping the knees on McEntee. From the very outset I said McMenamin knew full well what he was doing and it can't be defended.

Meanwhile on McGrane who you are now saying you didn't defend him, you offered up the following excuses:

- McGrane's was during play.
- It was mistimed
- You cannot for one second say for sure if McGrane meant to do damage or not with that tackle
- Plenty of players tackle with a closed fist

Did Paul McGrane clothesline you with a closed fist challenge today or is there another reason why you've a bad case of short term amnesia?

Swing your arms back maybe, but McM deliberately struck with the elbow. That's a red. Whether he connected or not is irrelevant. The intent was there.

[thewobbler]

This thread basically now represents everything that has gone wrong with football.

Once upon a time, men played Gaelic Football. Sometimes you took a bang, and sometimes you gave a bang. And all being well nobody got sent off.

But a combination of TV camera angles and increasing human timidity has seen 15-20 years of people discussing intent as though it's something that can be gauged through the naked eye, people demanding red cards for anything and everything, plus a never ending circle of whataboutery for every challenge. Put together, it has fed the illness that is feigning injury, as players know that referees are now now genuinely afraid of the blowback from being lenient.


So f**k you all.

[Angelo]

You defended him elbowing McCann in the face. You also said Armagh players were at it and McMenamin gave a bit back. Or wasn't that you?
Haven't seen anyone defend McGrane. He should have been red carded

I didn't defend him at all. I said it as it was, a retaliatory action to McCann dragging him back trying to stop him taking a quick free, as it was. Could have been a red card but a fairly common action in those situations to swing your arms back to free yourself. McCann wasn't caught, referee didn't take any action.

This is just absurd posting from you. You defended McGrane, now you're saying you didn't. You're accusing me of defending McMenamin when I've said from the very outset there is no defending him dropping the knees on McEntee. From the very outset I said McMenamin knew full well what he was doing and it can't be defended.

Meanwhile on McGrane who you are now saying you didn't defend him, you offered up the following excuses:

- McGrane's was during play.
- It was mistimed
- You cannot for one second say for sure if McGrane meant to do damage or not with that tackle
- Plenty of players tackle with a closed fist

Did Paul McGrane clothesline you with a closed fist challenge today or is there another reason why you've a bad case of short term amnesia?

Swing your arms back maybe, but McM deliberately struck with the elbow. That's a red. Whether he connected or not is irrelevant. The intent was there.

It could be a red certainly but the context was it was a reactionary swingback as McCann was dragging long after the whistle was blown and free awarded. It was the last kick of the game so had no bearing. Also should be a yellow card offence for McCann.