Messages

NO
But a wee bit of tolerance would help reduce your blood pressure considerably.
BTW where you at SPCA during the 1960's
L

Stew.... I have been silent for about 5 years ... hoping that you would decide that Limbaugh is not a nice person,... of your own volition!!!!! But alas my hopes are as always are off the mark. 
BTW hope your health is good

Eamonn
Gavin Newsom   ... You have been living too close to San Francisco for too long.
Any man who could turn a woman to the FOXside is seriously handicaped from the get go.
BTW Great job promoting the Stanford Hurling team

Well said.. For all our sakes I hope your wishes come to pass

Stew:
Can I ask you a question.
Where you raised in Longstone on the loughgall road in Armagh City?

Stew: do you refer to this McCarthy  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_McCarthy  or this one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_McCarthy
I think Eamonn's views are more alingned with Eugene and in the case of McCarthy eile " Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile"

stew
Hero Member

Posts: 3974


Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...

« Reply #1319 on: October 03, 2012, 10:47:51 PM »

Quote




Quote from: Oraisteach on October 03, 2012, 08:08:27 PM

"Anti-intellectualism, pseudoscience, callousness and bigotry."  A splendid synopsis.  Given their attempts to disenfrachise whole chunks of the electorate, I'd add to that list "cheating" (probably a sub-section of bigotry).  Wonder if Chad will be hanging about this time around. Not exactly enamored with the Democrats, but I sure loathe the Republicans.  Can't wait to hear Romney's pre-rehearsed ad-libs this evening.


"A splendid synopsis" my arse orais............... Obama has this country on the road to ruin, he has added 5 trillion to the defecit, how the hell can one man justify that in under four years?

Bit disengenuous there Stew you are crediting/attributing Bush's Wars and his tax cuts to Obama

I know plenty of republican supporters who are the salt of the earth, same goes for the democrats but if the clown that is Obama gets four more years this country will sneeze, and the rest of the world will catch a cold.

Whaaaaaaa? I know lots of salt of the earth people on both sides.. ergo I can say anything I choose about anybody on either side.

Obama is every bit as slick as Clinton minus the performance, he has been awful on the economy and he and his party should be held accountable for the absolutely shitty job they have done over the past four years. ( They will win it going away)

What are you talking about?
Obama and his party have been trying to dig us out of a hole that Republican party, trickle down economics (and denials that you are a not Republican are not acceptable given your rhetorical track record) have exploded us into.  Despite the intransigence of Mitch McConnelll's troops they keep trying to promote job creation ( Auto industry bailout). With a bit of co-operation and a more enthusiastic government investment program we would be looking at a more robust recovery. If you cared to look at the country that birthed you, you will notice that the place would still be in the 19th century had it not been for the ESB, IDA, Bord Bainne, Bord na Mona (all government promoted). Government is not the problem. Disrespect for what the government can do to contribute to economic growth is the problem. Regan has a lot to answer for ( His Government bad Private sector good mantra has been polarising the US for 30 years)  but now that he has been beatified who cares about the facts.

I am resigned to the democrats winning again, I know teachers etc, union member types want Obama to win, good for them, the fact is that if America is to get out of this mess it has to start with cutbacks in spending, the national debt needs to get culled and government needs to get smaller, a lot smaller, the military  needs to get hit financially and all non essential government funded projects also need to get culled, there is far too much wasted funding. All of that is just the start, the Yanks need to ensure they stop hemorrhaging jobs to overseas companies and they need to inflict heavy taxes on companies who outsource jobs.

Stew: How many hours have you spent in the classroom teaching?

Clever post Smart one but check out the great Wiki's take on Kant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantian_ethics
Maybe both club and county resemble the duty thing

I agree with TO (a first).. watch out for the Niners. Now if Rodgers or Brady would just come home I would upgrade that to bet the farm on them.

PS Mr. T before you ask if I know where California is ... I live there ... in the bit where your water comes from... 

As a preface ... I am an old dude who thinks that God gave him 2 ears and one mouth for a reason. So I have limited my engagements on the board for good reason. However my addiction to Mr. T's take on US politics and his ability to make even me feel like even I still have a Christian spirit (compared to MR T) have prompted me to post this rant

As we stand at this time the country is almost impossible to govern because of the myopic greed of a few. The social contract between Main street America and the Financial system is broken and the government has been completely usurped by lobbyists.

Once ( When FRD was in charge) we sent our money to Wall Street and they found a way to invest it in businesses that made things like TV's, Washing machines, steel and clothing in the good ole USA.  Now they can make more money by moving the money we send them into arcane synthesized financial instruments (That's credit default swats) that do nothing for anyone other than create a commission for someone living in the Hamptons.  Unfortunately our F'd up tax code gives us little choice but to keep sending our money to these guys who reward Corporate America for off-shoring real blue collar jobs that pay a decent wage. In the stead of these real jobs we are hiring greeters at Walmart and other minimum wage jobs that leave folks reliant on the Government for healthcare coverage. We rejoice when we create another distribution outfit (Walamrt, Target) that makes it easy for China to feed our voracious appetite for cheap goods while we defend ourselves with (tongue in cheek) Low Tariffs, a crazy currency rate and gift them our technology.


Congress and by extension the Executive branch and Judiciary are bought and paid for. The Republicans and the Democrats are both beholden to wealthy donors (corporate, institutional, private and organizational). The only way to clean the mess up is "campaign finance reform" but no one in any branch of government is voting for that. You saw how McCain (once the great campaigner for campaign finance reform) had to do a 180 degree turn  to get his party's Presidential nomination in 2008 and his co-sponsor Russ Feingold failed to get re-elected in Wisconsin. If you do not join the Lobbyists you get licked.


The notion that Government is not a good thing (Reagan got elected on the back of his derogatory use of  "I'm from the Government and I'm here to help") and the consistent mantra coming from the right that all evil emanates from Washington is a foolhardy populist line that does not serve the national interest of the US. We need a citizenry that is bought into making government work.  Putting good people in place who can do a good job and holding them accountable if they do not. Instead we get Tea-party hypocrites who take government subsidies and free healthcare from the government while lecturing the rest of us that we should look after our own healthcare needs.

In a country where so many people can be conned into voting against their economic self-interest so regularly by clever manipulative mavens I am not holding my breath for any decent things to occur any time soon.

And as long as we have the likes of Mr T. espousing the politics of self interest over Henry Ford's notion of "pay them enough so that they can buy more of my shit" we are in a seriously myopic economic downward cycle that will eventually make Mr. T a less wealthy person than he should be.

Rant over

[in profit]

lets do this point by point:

Point 1.
my opinion is that tax policy in the US is asinine, personal and corporate taxes both. In particular the taxes on the highest earners i.e. zero personal tax. How can you justify a hedge fund manager taking home $30M but paying zero tax on that income? How can you justify an american company bringing in $19 Billion dollars in profit yet paying no tax in the US (Exxon, in fact received a $150Million dollar tax rebate see rest of list below) . 57% of companies in the US have gone without paying tax for a year in the last 8 tax years. Tax on fuel further screws up the economy, and the corporation taxes here in the US are boosting foreign economies not the US domestic economy. As for standard and poors, I have read the report, and I have been reading reports from them every day for 10 years, I have kept some of their better ones, Lehman triple A ratings, AIG triple A ratings, US mortgage backed securities, CDOs. McGraw-Hill is a publishing company, some fiction, some non fiction.

Credit rating is based on the likelihood of a default on debt. The debt ceiling brinkmanship that played out over the last few weeks showed that there was a strong likelihood that American politicians of all backgrounds would allow the country to default on its loans.

Your opinion is the spending is the issue, no matter how clearly you state it, its still an opinion. You have however compared the US economy to a household in the past, so allow me to have a different opinion. Spending is certainly a problem, (how would stopping two wars/ military campaigns impact that spending), however it is over shadowed by the lack of taxation that are applied to certain sections of business and certain types of income. If it were as simple as you seem to see it- why doesn't everyone move to Delaware?

The public perception of this issue in the US is influenced by politicians, and that means soundbites and cherry picking of issues that they know will resonate. It doesn't suit a politician who wants to get elected to say "our tax code is a steaming pile of shite so we'll have to rewrite it" or "the spending commitments we have agreed to in order to get all these crappy bills passed that we scare mongered folks into supporting are complete bullshit and we basically bought votes in both houses by sticking this crap in there, but I got re-elected last time so who cares?" However look at the press and support you receive when you say "we're spending too much when I'm in power I'll spend less"

I am very happy to hear that you agree with cutting spending, but if you don't have a view on what taxation policy should be to pay for the spending that you do happen to agree with. Or maybe if you can cite one example of cutting government spending to stimulate an economy, or maybe cite a theory as to how this time its going to be different (remember no promising change..) then I'll be more than happy to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Point number 2.
Liberalism is not democratic US politics, nor is it GOP. I may be a liberal but I fail to see why gay marriage being legalized in New York has anything to do with tax policy. I would also argue strongly that on this issue that I'm not the one with his head buried in the sand (or over simplifying). Also raising taxes, as we have all seen over the last few weeks, has very little to do with the President, that would be a congressional issue, but as previously don't let the facts or logic get in the way of your point. or alternatively throw in yet another complete irrelevance into the discussion to "prove your point". For the record my line of work is at least 95% republican, and where I live although liberal in most senses of the word also votes consistently republican. And without trying to cast aspersions on your detective skills, and things being lost on you (the irony) who else from New York (or Chicago assuming you now allow that the President of the USA wasn't born in Kenya) is advocating tax increases, and who from outside of those areas (other than your good self) is advocating tax reductions?

Point 3.
you asked me to explain why it didn't make sense to me, but now apparently its about a sense of humor? And seeking truth in poetry? I do pay tax, I have a nice little accountant who works out exactly what I owe, and then I write 3 checks, one to NJ, one to NY and one to the IRS. All of them will send you back a check for the difference if you pay more than you owe just for future reference.
Now maybe you answer the questions
1. What do you think that tax levels should be in the US?
2. And what do you think people should pay taxes on?
3. What do you think corporations and businesses should pay taxes on?

While you're at it, can tell me what cause this is you're referring to and why I'm full of shite? ( because the dumb answer will get a reply asking you to write a check for less than you owe( assuming you actually pay tax)and then take your case to the supreme court- let me know how you get on with that...)

Or maybe you can come back with something other than a little sound bite without logic, reasoning or any basic economic common sense. Accuse me of being something or other, sympathizing with someone or other (and their ilk), disparaging remark about the president or another member of the democratic party who you seem to assume I have some allegiance to. Diversionary tactics wont be entertained either.

And food for thought, as you seem annoyed at being in the top 50% of tax payers and seem very pissed at having to subsidize that 50% that earn less than $47,000 per family per year. Spare a thought for the poor buggers that earn more than $380,00 per family per year who pay more tax than everyone who earns less than $160,000 combined even with this tax system. Its a cruel world after all...

List of non tax paying US companies:
1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings.

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion.

3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS.

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009.

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year.

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction.

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department.

8 ) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury.

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2007 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction.

10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent.

I had my doubts about the quality of the education that i got at SPCA but they seem to have done a good job on you, lad from just south of portydown. That was a tremedous post ... maybe Mr. Tir Own Own will actually read it and wind his nexk in.

Rufus
My third post and !!!!!  I am going back to the old Board(s)
We would take you in a heart beat.
Well ...I can only speak for Forty years or so ago when I was young and useless
But then Keady only wakes up every 40 years or so .... when you least expect..... to bite the ass of the proud and haughty
We will not go away you know