Messi or Ronaldo - Who's best

[Itchy]

Sadam had comical Ali but this board has comical Angelo

[BennyCake]

A lot of truth in that Angelo.

Messi has never played in a bad team. He was always surrounded by that Barcelona team who dominated for years. Now that Barca are on the wane, he doesn't seem to try a leg and we're seeing a very different Messi.

[nrico2006]

Just think of the amount of goals peak messi and ronaldo would have scored during Nedved and Shevchenko 'era'. They would have been hitting 40+ league goals for fun in a slower paced game dancing around slow bulky defenders with zero pace

You're off your head.

If Van Dijk is one of the best defenders in the world right now then I think it tells you all you need to know about the abysmal state of the game at present. Messi generally struggled against Italian teams, he has been absolutely pathetic at the business end of international tournaments without his star studded supporting cast.

Whatever about Cristiano Ronaldo, Messi is a complete one trick pony, when you put in place a highly energetic team who are all technically proficient and can play these one touch pass triangles then there is nobody better than him - but when you take him out of that and you ask him to deliver outside his comforts then he fails consistently.

At least CR7 can say he has done it in England, Spain and Italy. Messi has done it with a great Barcelona team who had plenty of once in a generation talents too playing alongside him - Argentina with always be the death knell for Messi. Guys like Di Maria and Mascherano were the leaders and the main men in those Argentina sides. They were a non-scoring well drilled outfit and Messi just couldn't deliver.

0 goals in 8 WC knockout matches - failure but if he scores 4 goals agaisnt Levante or Eibar then he's the greatest, apparently.

You said in this post that when playing international football he has struggled without his star studded supporting cast, yet on the previous page you said his Argentina teams were super talented. Confused.

I love the way people come up with imaginary criteria to determine greatness; for example, you have to win a World Cup to be the greatest ever. Over the past few years a new one has came about - you have to be amazing in multiple leagues to be the best ever. Both are just reasons used to back certain footballers claims to be the best.

[GiveItToTheShooters]

I don't think this is really worth debating. If it was Maradona or Pele etc being mentioned here alongside Ronaldo and Messi then fair enough, debate away, but Nedved and Shevchenko.. better than Ronaldo and Messi.. my god.
It's just wrong, and everyone here knows it. Better to let him tear away.

[Jell 0 Biafra]

You're all attacker mad.

Give me Maldini and McGrath any day.

[Angelo]

Just think of the amount of goals peak messi and ronaldo would have scored during Nedved and Shevchenko 'era'. They would have been hitting 40+ league goals for fun in a slower paced game dancing around slow bulky defenders with zero pace

You're off your head.

If Van Dijk is one of the best defenders in the world right now then I think it tells you all you need to know about the abysmal state of the game at present. Messi generally struggled against Italian teams, he has been absolutely pathetic at the business end of international tournaments without his star studded supporting cast.

Whatever about Cristiano Ronaldo, Messi is a complete one trick pony, when you put in place a highly energetic team who are all technically proficient and can play these one touch pass triangles then there is nobody better than him - but when you take him out of that and you ask him to deliver outside his comforts then he fails consistently.

At least CR7 can say he has done it in England, Spain and Italy. Messi has done it with a great Barcelona team who had plenty of once in a generation talents too playing alongside him - Argentina with always be the death knell for Messi. Guys like Di Maria and Mascherano were the leaders and the main men in those Argentina sides. They were a non-scoring well drilled outfit and Messi just couldn't deliver.

0 goals in 8 WC knockout matches - failure but if he scores 4 goals agaisnt Levante or Eibar then he's the greatest, apparently.

You said in this post that when playing international football he has struggled without his star studded supporting cast, yet on the previous page you said his Argentina teams were super talented. Confused.

I love the way people come up with imaginary criteria to determine greatness; for example, you have to win a World Cup to be the greatest ever. Over the past few years a new one has came about - you have to be amazing in multiple leagues to be the best ever. Both are just reasons used to back certain footballers claims to be the best.

There's plenty of stars he has played with Argentina for but they are not Xavi, Iniesta or Busquets. Messi can only play one way. He's a one trick pony. He needs players around him with tireless energy who can run all day, who can move the ball quickly with little one touch triangles and so forth.

Without that he looks quite ordinary which is exactly why he has failed to light up any major international tournament he has played in. If he was the greatest this would not matter.

[Angelo]

I don't think this is really worth debating. If it was Maradona or Pele etc being mentioned here alongside Ronaldo and Messi then fair enough, debate away, but Nedved and Shevchenko.. better than Ronaldo and Messi.. my god.
It's just wrong, and everyone here knows it. Better to let him tear away.

There's no doubt in my mind.

Messi is playing in an extremely weak era of football. He would not have stood out if he arrived on the scene 10 years prior.

[thewobbler]

I don't think this is really worth debating. If it was Maradona or Pele etc being mentioned here alongside Ronaldo and Messi then fair enough, debate away, but Nedved and Shevchenko.. better than Ronaldo and Messi.. my god.
It's just wrong, and everyone here knows it. Better to let him tear away.

There's no doubt in my mind.

Messi is playing in an extremely weak era of football. He would not have stood out if he arrived on the scene 10 years prior.

That would have put his peak around 2002-2007.

Some of the highlights of that "golden age" include:

- Greece winning Euro 2004, without a single recognisable player.
- Porto without any pace or forwards being champions of Europe in 2004.
- Dudek, Finnan, Traore, Garcia and Baros starting for the best team in Europe 2005.
- Germany making the WC final 2006 without a single genuine talent outfield, and utterly nondescript players like Linke, Ramelow, Jeremies, Bose and Schneider all in the first XI.
- Forlan, Totti and Toni being the golden shoe winners before Messi and Ronaldo taking control.


As the saying goes you're entitled to your own opinions, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

[nrico2006]

Just think of the amount of goals peak messi and ronaldo would have scored during Nedved and Shevchenko 'era'. They would have been hitting 40+ league goals for fun in a slower paced game dancing around slow bulky defenders with zero pace

You're off your head.

If Van Dijk is one of the best defenders in the world right now then I think it tells you all you need to know about the abysmal state of the game at present. Messi generally struggled against Italian teams, he has been absolutely pathetic at the business end of international tournaments without his star studded supporting cast.

Whatever about Cristiano Ronaldo, Messi is a complete one trick pony, when you put in place a highly energetic team who are all technically proficient and can play these one touch pass triangles then there is nobody better than him - but when you take him out of that and you ask him to deliver outside his comforts then he fails consistently.

At least CR7 can say he has done it in England, Spain and Italy. Messi has done it with a great Barcelona team who had plenty of once in a generation talents too playing alongside him - Argentina with always be the death knell for Messi. Guys like Di Maria and Mascherano were the leaders and the main men in those Argentina sides. They were a non-scoring well drilled outfit and Messi just couldn't deliver.

0 goals in 8 WC knockout matches - failure but if he scores 4 goals agaisnt Levante or Eibar then he's the greatest, apparently.

You said in this post that when playing international football he has struggled without his star studded supporting cast, yet on the previous page you said his Argentina teams were super talented. Confused.

I love the way people come up with imaginary criteria to determine greatness; for example, you have to win a World Cup to be the greatest ever. Over the past few years a new one has came about - you have to be amazing in multiple leagues to be the best ever. Both are just reasons used to back certain footballers claims to be the best.

There's plenty of stars he has played with Argentina for but they are not Xavi, Iniesta or Busquets. Messi can only play one way. He's a one trick pony. He needs players around him with tireless energy who can run all day, who can move the ball quickly with little one touch triangles and so forth.

Without that he looks quite ordinary which is exactly why he has failed to light up any major international tournament he has played in. If he was the greatest this would not matter.

Do you forget the 2014 World Cup?

[Angelo]

I don't think this is really worth debating. If it was Maradona or Pele etc being mentioned here alongside Ronaldo and Messi then fair enough, debate away, but Nedved and Shevchenko.. better than Ronaldo and Messi.. my god.
It's just wrong, and everyone here knows it. Better to let him tear away.

There's no doubt in my mind.

Messi is playing in an extremely weak era of football. He would not have stood out if he arrived on the scene 10 years prior.

That would have put his peak around 2002-2007.

Some of the highlights of that "golden age" include:

- Greece winning Euro 2004, without a single recognisable player.
- Porto without any pace or forwards being champions of Europe in 2004.
- Dudek, Finnan, Traore, Garcia and Baros starting for the best team in Europe 2005.
- Germany making the WC final 2006 without a single genuine talent outfield, and utterly nondescript players like Linke, Ramelow, Jeremies, Bose and Schneider all in the first XI.
- Forlan, Totti and Toni being the golden shoe winners before Messi and Ronaldo taking control.


As the saying goes you're entitled to your own opinions, but you're not entitled to your own facts.

Yes that would be the same peak.

Germany were host nations in 2006. If you look at the German team that won in 2014, it had household names like Howedes, Kramer, Mertesacker and Schurrle involved.

Totti was a greater player than Messi ever was. Absolute fact, he came back from a broken ankle in late February to deliver a WC to Italy 4 months later. He was in the twilight of his career in 2007, in his 30s at that point.

Forlan was an excellent striker too but also was 30 when he claimed that award.

But that does show you, there was a void coming there in football and Ronaldo and Messi didn't have to be exceptional to come the best. Thanks for reinforcing my argument with those points.

[thewobbler]

Lol.

[Angelo]

Just think of the amount of goals peak messi and ronaldo would have scored during Nedved and Shevchenko 'era'. They would have been hitting 40+ league goals for fun in a slower paced game dancing around slow bulky defenders with zero pace

You're off your head.

If Van Dijk is one of the best defenders in the world right now then I think it tells you all you need to know about the abysmal state of the game at present. Messi generally struggled against Italian teams, he has been absolutely pathetic at the business end of international tournaments without his star studded supporting cast.

Whatever about Cristiano Ronaldo, Messi is a complete one trick pony, when you put in place a highly energetic team who are all technically proficient and can play these one touch pass triangles then there is nobody better than him - but when you take him out of that and you ask him to deliver outside his comforts then he fails consistently.

At least CR7 can say he has done it in England, Spain and Italy. Messi has done it with a great Barcelona team who had plenty of once in a generation talents too playing alongside him - Argentina with always be the death knell for Messi. Guys like Di Maria and Mascherano were the leaders and the main men in those Argentina sides. They were a non-scoring well drilled outfit and Messi just couldn't deliver.

0 goals in 8 WC knockout matches - failure but if he scores 4 goals agaisnt Levante or Eibar then he's the greatest, apparently.

You said in this post that when playing international football he has struggled without his star studded supporting cast, yet on the previous page you said his Argentina teams were super talented. Confused.

I love the way people come up with imaginary criteria to determine greatness; for example, you have to win a World Cup to be the greatest ever. Over the past few years a new one has came about - you have to be amazing in multiple leagues to be the best ever. Both are just reasons used to back certain footballers claims to be the best.

There's plenty of stars he has played with Argentina for but they are not Xavi, Iniesta or Busquets. Messi can only play one way. He's a one trick pony. He needs players around him with tireless energy who can run all day, who can move the ball quickly with little one touch triangles and so forth.

Without that he looks quite ordinary which is exactly why he has failed to light up any major international tournament he has played in. If he was the greatest this would not matter.

Do you forget the 2014 World Cup?

The 2014 World Cup?

I remember it well. Di Maria and Mashcerano were the main Argentina players when Messi went missing.

Argentina played 450 minutes of knockout football, they scored 2 goals and conceded none (Di Maria and Higuain).

Messi was anonymous.

[quit yo jibbajabba]

So weve now Totti Nedved and Schevchenko ahead of the little man. The list continues to grow. Hope Lionel isnt reading all this....

[Nanderson]

Just think of the amount of goals peak messi and ronaldo would have scored during Nedved and Shevchenko 'era'. They would have been hitting 40+ league goals for fun in a slower paced game dancing around slow bulky defenders with zero pace

You're off your head.

If Van Dijk is one of the best defenders in the world right now then I think it tells you all you need to know about the abysmal state of the game at present. Messi generally struggled against Italian teams, he has been absolutely pathetic at the business end of international tournaments without his star studded supporting cast.

Whatever about Cristiano Ronaldo, Messi is a complete one trick pony, when you put in place a highly energetic team who are all technically proficient and can play these one touch pass triangles then there is nobody better than him - but when you take him out of that and you ask him to deliver outside his comforts then he fails consistently.

At least CR7 can say he has done it in England, Spain and Italy. Messi has done it with a great Barcelona team who had plenty of once in a generation talents too playing alongside him - Argentina with always be the death knell for Messi. Guys like Di Maria and Mascherano were the leaders and the main men in those Argentina sides. They were a non-scoring well drilled outfit and Messi just couldn't deliver.

0 goals in 8 WC knockout matches - failure but if he scores 4 goals agaisnt Levante or Eibar then he's the greatest, apparently.

Yea 12 goals in 19 games against Italian teams in the champions league really shows how much he has struggled

[GiveItToTheShooters]

I don't think this is really worth debating. If it was Maradona or Pele etc being mentioned here alongside Ronaldo and Messi then fair enough, debate away, but Nedved and Shevchenko.. better than Ronaldo and Messi.. my god.
It's just wrong, and everyone here knows it. Better to let him tear away.

There's no doubt in my mind.

Messi is playing in an extremely weak era of football. He would not have stood out if he arrived on the scene 10 years prior.

Totti now too Please seek attention from a psychiatrist as soon as possible.