Power struggle within Croke Park?

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.

We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.

Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?

The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.

So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.

They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.

And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.

Rant over.

Wrong on that part, there is a huge amount of room in front of the stand in Newbridge. In fact there is very little that can be considered a H&S hazard there. The wall and rails around the pitch will not be missed after redevelopment and the dressing rooms are pathetic but in every other department Newbridge is adequate.
Navan on the other hand has a stand that is a lot more dangerous than it's grass banks, I am shocked someone hasn't fell and broke their necks going down it yet. It will make a nice ground when done up. Hopefully they don't do something stupid like make it an all seater.

[Cunny Funt]

Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.

We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.

Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?

The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.

So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.

They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.

And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.

Rant over.

Can you provide evidence or links so i can see all these claims in Croke Park over the years?

[dublin7]

Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.

We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.

Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?

The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.

So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.

They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.

And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.

Rant over.

Can you provide evidence or links so i can see all these claims in Croke Park over the years?

I'm fairness it's been mentioned several times down the years that claims have been made after pitch invasions. The most ridiculous one I remember is when one of the former presidents claimed they received a letter and a cleaning bill for a dress from a tyrone woman after she slipped and fell on the grass during a pitch invasion

[easytiger95]

Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.

We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.

Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?

The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.

So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.

They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.

And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.

Rant over.

Can you provide evidence or links so i can see all these claims in Croke Park over the years?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7769042.stm

That is from 2010 when they started phasing out pitch invasions

[easytiger95]

Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.

We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.

Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?

The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.

So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.

They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.

And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.

Rant over.

Wrong on that part, there is a huge amount of room in front of the stand in Newbridge. In fact there is very little that can be considered a H&S hazard there. The wall and rails around the pitch will not be missed after redevelopment and the dressing rooms are pathetic but in every other department Newbridge is adequate.
Navan on the other hand has a stand that is a lot more dangerous than it's grass banks, I am shocked someone hasn't fell and broke their necks going down it yet. It will make a nice ground when done up. Hopefully they don't do something stupid like make it an all seater.

I haven't been in conleths since i played a schools leinster quarte final there in 93. And it was a proper kip then.

I heard the above quoted as a problem on Off The Ball, so apologies if it is not the case. I don't think the specifics of what is actually wrong witb the place changes the thrust of my arguments above though.

[Cunny Funt]

Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.

We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.

Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?

The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.

So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.

They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.

And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.

Rant over.

Can you provide evidence or links so i can see all these claims in Croke Park over the years?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7769042.stm

That is from 2010 when they started phasing out pitch invasions

Is that the best evidence you can find? A figure of 200,000 pulled from where? raving about something that happened in Perth and Melbourne to me that looks like pure propaganda. BTW in 2018 pitch "invasions" are still seen in every ground apart from Croke Park

[LilySavage]

Newbridge a kip in 1993? What are you on about? Which other grounds had you been to? It's rundown now in comparison to other grounds but in 1993, it would have been more than acceptable. You take all this in from the pitch? The dressing rooms were too small. Accepted. Rest of it was fine. Relatively speaking.

[Kuwabatake Sanjuro]

Newbridge a kip in 1993? What are you on about? Which other grounds had you been to? It's rundown now in comparison to other grounds but in 1993, it would have been more than acceptable. You take all this in from the pitch? The dressing rooms were too small. Accepted. Rest of it was fine. Relatively speaking.

There has been 3 new terraces built in the mid 90's too.
An example of what it was like then (coupled with a masterclass from Johnny McDonald)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Po5Mx7BGhsE

[manfromdelmonte]

A kip compared to where though?
There are loads of old fashioned grounds around the country
Newbridge
Navan
Carlow
Tuam
Drogheda
Eight in

Nothing wrong once the pitch is decent and it can hold a crowd

[LeoMc]

Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.

We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.

Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?

The complacency (smugness??) of GAA fans in this respect is hard to credit. We jump on the nearest high horse at the merest suggestion of fan trouble, but events like the Bradford city fire happened because of a dropped cigarette. Crushes and stampedes can happen from someone tripping up in the wrong place, it doesn't take battalion charges of hooligans or hordes of ticketless zombies outside.

So what prevents these events happening? Most of us would like to pat each other on the back and say, well, GAA fans are different from every other sport. The real reason is committees like the CCCC and those who sit on it, making hard decisions and getting very little thanks for it.

They are allowed to get ones wrong (which I think they did in this case, more through poor communications than anything else). But if I'm on a committee and I'm tasked with making decisions where, if the wrong move is made, it could end up with a fan ending up injured, paralysed or dead, you're damn sure I'll stay on the side of caution. Because I don't see anyone else lining up to make those decisions.

And they certainly don't deserve to be portrayed as some sort of aristocratic elite by Madame Gulliotine herself, Ewan McKenna. The same sort of rabble rousing, know nothing, populist crap that is giving nothing to the world but dementia.

Rant over.

Can you provide evidence or links so i can see all these claims in Croke Park over the years?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/7769042.stm

That is from 2010 when they started phasing out pitch invasions

Is that the best evidence you can find? A figure of 200,000 pulled from where? raving about something that happened in Perth and Melbourne to me that looks like pure propaganda. BTW in 2018 pitch "invasions" are still seen in every ground apart from Croke Park

Tom Ryans evidence to an Oireachtas committee last month was that insurance costs had doubled in the past 5 years and that the majority of the payouts were not for players and coaches but for other injuries on GAA property.

[Jinxy]

Yeah, but the majority of those resulted from functions being held on club property, i.e. birthday parties etc.

[sid waddell]

Can I just say, whilst I support Kildare's right to play at home, and I'm glad the match went off without a hitch, it is the job of these committees to anticipate risk. The big fear in Croke Park is not that Sky doesn't get the fixture it wants or that they don't sell enough tickets for the All Ireland series - it is that a person or people will be seriously injured whilst on GAA property.

We already know why they stamped out pitch invasions in Croke Park - because every eejit who turned his ankle hopping a barrier was suing the organisation and getting paid. That is not Peter McKenna's money, or Feargal McGill's - that is your money, my money, every member's money.

Worse than that, what happens if a catastrophe occurs in a small stadium with narrow access in front of the stand (which I believe was the case in St. Conleth's)? Or in the Hyde, where there is only one point of egress from the main stand?

It's the job of the Health and Safety people to anticipate risk and set an appropriate capacity for each ground in Ireland.

They set that capacity at 8,000 odd or whatever the exact figure was. It's not the GAA's job to set those figures.

Newbridge has a certified safe capacity, every ground has. Therefore there could never have been a question of there being safety problems at the match because it coud only have ever taken place with this certified safe capacity.

What the GAA were trying to do was actually undermining the whole concept of Health and Safety.

Also Jinxy, just with regard to Slattery, one of the critical parts of the risk analysis here would have been not only capacity, but how many were expected to turn up. Whilst it was completely out of order for Ned Quinn to suggest Football Factory scenes would ensue if people didn't get tickets, it is completely valid to have a concern that a certain amount of people will travel without them and factor that in to any safety plan.

Newbridge is a mid to large size town by Irish standards. It has a wide main street and people arrive from different directions when there's a match.

The notion that the GAA would tell people to "stay away" was comical. Why should anybody stay away from the centre of a town, and what authority had the GAA to tell anybody to do so?

Thurles is a smaller town than Newbridge, Clones much smaller, yet the capacity of Semple Stadium is 45,000 (it used to be as high as 60,000). St. Tiernach's Park holds around 30,000. In both of those towns, pretty much the entirety of the crowd makes it way through narrow streets to get to and from the venue.

If you have a problem with 8,500 people in Newbridge, I'd hate to see how you'd react to 45,000 in Thurles.

[Rossfan]

It was the horsy set coming in from the races attacking people with tickets they were worried about.

[AZOffaly]

Newbridge a kip in 1993? What are you on about? Which other grounds had you been to? It's rundown now in comparison to other grounds but in 1993, it would have been more than acceptable. You take all this in from the pitch? The dressing rooms were too small. Accepted. Rest of it was fine. Relatively speaking.

I was shoved into the wall there in an u21 game in 93 or 94. Bad cess to that poxy wall.

[easytiger95]

Newbridge a kip in 1993? What are you on about? Which other grounds had you been to? It's rundown now in comparison to other grounds but in 1993, it would have been more than acceptable. You take all this in from the pitch? The dressing rooms were too small. Accepted. Rest of it was fine. Relatively speaking.

I was shoved into the wall there in an u21 game in 93 or 94. Bad cess to that poxy wall.

There was warfare at the end of our game there, we had been given a good hockeying by St. Ciaran's and our 17 year old, full stache sporting captain started a load of hassle at the final whistle. One of our selectors  grabbed him, threw him over the wall and dragged him back to the dressing rooms, kicking the door closed behind the two of them.

He definitely thought the dressing room was too small at that stage.