Papal Visit to Ireland

[The Iceman]

So they don't actually relate specifically to the Pennsylvania report?

That is either spectacularly careless or spectacularly dishonest.

The Bishop's first "quote" says that victims were in the main male - to obviously advance an anti homosexual agenda - before he contradicts himself by saying that they ranged from prepubescent to young seminarians. In other words, children, teenagers and young men. So the vast majority of victims were under the age of consent and the others looked young.

And his second quote was in relation to a 2011 study.

The church is too busy demonising homosexuals to actually go after paedophiles.

Very, very dishonest Iceman. Very disappointing on your part.

was not the intent - If you read the findings of the report (save you reading the entire thing) it will contextualize the points the bishop was making about PA and the links to the 2011 report.
Only 5% of the abusers in the report (2011 report) (which details abuse in the last 80 years I think) display or displayed characteristics associated with Pedophilia. Draw your own conclusions from that.  This is in line with the findings in PA. He's making a connection with two reports.

[easytiger95]

That is not in line with the findings of PA, so stop talking bullshit. Over 1000 children - children - were found by the grand jury report to have been abused by priests, with the vast majority of abuse beginning before their teens.

But don't let that stop you or your Bishop politicizing that to promote an anti-gay agenda.

Clowns, but thankfully obsolete clowns.

[Baile Brigín 2]

There is a very sinister narrative emerging. The church doesnt have a peadophilia problem, it has a gay priest problem. If they were just more homophobic all would be fixed.

Aside from conflating homosexuality and paedophilia, it choses to miss the point for agenda reasons. And enables the beasts

[Syferus]

Disgusting contribution from Iceman, for the reasons Baile Brigin outlined.

[The Iceman]

I have no issues with my comments. You can read in to them and make them whatever you want. I am not coming forward, countless Bishops are, in Diocese across America and writing letters to the congregations that there is a homosexual problem within the hierarchy of the church.
The 2011 report clearly points to 95% of priests caught in abuse not displaying any characteristics typical of a pedophile.
The Bishop implicated  - McCarrick - in the PA report, as the highest in the hierarchy during the times of abuse - and accused of abuse of children and seminarians was known for his homosexual parties, hook ups and rape.
Why are homosexual men raping children and why are they raping mostly boys? 80%+ of the victims in PA were boys.
I do not claim to know why.
I am simply feeding back to you what was reported in 2011, what Bishops are saying today in light of the PA report and what Bishops think will spark purification in the church.
It may well go to the very top with the resignation of Pope Francis who has been accused of being part of the cover up.

[smelmoth]

It's no surprise that the Pope's visit was underwhelming (at least in media coverage).  I would imagine for those who attended and who wanted to attend for all the right reasons, that it was a great occasion.
Lot's of leaders visit other countries. And those countries foot the bill. The media also cover things with the right amount of respect and reverance based on the occasion. Windsor weddings.....?

I didn't expect any more than the comments on here.  The purification of the Church is well underway.

He wasnt invited here and it wasnt a state visit. It was an internal church event. Massively inappropriate to invite himself and tap us up for the cost, doubly so as his company owes us hundreds of millions.

There is an audience who just don't want to hear that.

Ireland has had a conversation with itself in the run up to this (non) event. That has to worth something. Probably not €32m.

On another front the expenditure probably doesn't represent a dangerous precedent as it is unlikely that there will ever be another papal visit

[smelmoth]

Literally this weekend an archbishop and former Vatican diplomat accused Pope Francis of being complicit in not acting on a sex abuse claim five years ago. That's 2013, folks. Not 1979, not 1997.

"The purification of the church is well underway". It is my arse.

You just made my point Syferus. I believe there will be and there is currently a purging of the hierarchy and possibly right to the top. The Vatican Diplomat is calling for the resignation of Pope Francis. The homosexual networks were exposed in Pennsylvania, the pedophiles continue to be exposed and those that protect them. If we can get them out of the Church then surely that is a good thing. As people leave and the corrupt clergy are outed/removed then surely the purification has begun?

Does anybody think it is likely that Iceman would describe a group of men who raped women as a heterosexual network?

[seafoid]

The Catholic Church is losing punters in Europe over abuse and because of education but doesn't care because the focus now is in the third world. Allowing priests to marry or women to be priests would over time reduce the pool of rapists but won't happen because of the conservatism of the flock where most of the punters live.

[armaghniac]

There is a very sinister narrative emerging. The church doesnt have a peadophilia problem, it has a gay priest problem. If they were just more homophobic all would be fixed.

Aside from conflating homosexuality and paedophilia, it choses to miss the point for agenda reasons. And enables the beasts

The narrative should be that the church has a cover up problem.

[smelmoth]

There is a very sinister narrative emerging. The church doesnt have a peadophilia problem, it has a gay priest problem. If they were just more homophobic all would be fixed.

Aside from conflating homosexuality and paedophilia, it choses to miss the point for agenda reasons. And enables the beasts

The narrative should be that the church has a cover up problem.

The narrative is a good longer than that.

The church has a relevance issue. Relevance is a subjective measure. Each decides for themselves what is relevant. But the votes are in and have been counted. In Ireland like the rest of the western world the church's relevance is marginal and declining.

The church has an ethical issue. There seems to be an absence of ethical fibre at the core of the church. The horrific short comings in the response to the continuous abuse scandal confirms the emptiness at the heart of the church.

The church has leadership issues. It doesn't know what way to go next and it doesn't know where to find uncontaminated leaders.

The church has criminal issues. It will continue to find difficulties unless it comes to terms with the fact that the criminality it oversees will ultimately be exposed to the criminal justice system and it would be best to come clean.

In short it is dysfunctional and it's dysfunction is endemic

[seafoid]

There is a very sinister narrative emerging. The church doesnt have a peadophilia problem, it has a gay priest problem. If they were just more homophobic all would be fixed.

Aside from conflating homosexuality and paedophilia, it choses to miss the point for agenda reasons. And enables the beasts

The narrative should be that the church has a cover up problem.

The narrative is a good longer than that.

The church has a relevance issue. Relevance is a subjective measure. Each decides for themselves what is relevant. But the votes are in and have been counted. In Ireland like the rest of the western world the church's relevance is marginal and declining.

The church has an ethical issue. There seems to be an absence of ethical fibre at the core of the church. The horrific short comings in the response to the continuous abuse scandal confirms the emptiness at the heart of the church.

The church has leadership issues. It doesn't know what way to go next and it doesn't know where to find uncontaminated leaders.

The church has criminal issues. It will continue to find difficulties unless it comes to terms with the fact that the criminality it oversees will ultimately be exposed to the criminal justice system and it would be best to come clean.

In short it is dysfunctional and it's dysfunction is endemic

The core problem is celibacy. It means the church is a magnet for predators. Even if 95% of priests are decent the predators do wanton damage.
Leadership is atrocious. Zero accountability.

And now they have lost the people which is institutional cancer.
Of course Ireland will remain culturally catholic for a long time after the music dies....

[smelmoth]

There is a very sinister narrative emerging. The church doesnt have a peadophilia problem, it has a gay priest problem. If they were just more homophobic all would be fixed.

Aside from conflating homosexuality and paedophilia, it choses to miss the point for agenda reasons. And enables the beasts

The narrative should be that the church has a cover up problem.

The narrative is a good longer than that.

The church has a relevance issue. Relevance is a subjective measure. Each decides for themselves what is relevant. But the votes are in and have been counted. In Ireland like the rest of the western world the church's relevance is marginal and declining.

The church has an ethical issue. There seems to be an absence of ethical fibre at the core of the church. The horrific short comings in the response to the continuous abuse scandal confirms the emptiness at the heart of the church.

The church has leadership issues. It doesn't know what way to go next and it doesn't know where to find uncontaminated leaders.

The church has criminal issues. It will continue to find difficulties unless it comes to terms with the fact that the criminality it oversees will ultimately be exposed to the criminal justice system and it would be best to come clean.

In short it is dysfunctional and it's dysfunction is endemic

The core problem is celibacy. It means the church is a magnet for predators. Even if 95% of priests are decent the predators do wanton damage.
Leadership is atrocious. Zero accountability.

And now they have lost the people which is institutional cancer.
Of course Ireland will remain culturally catholic for a long time after the music dies....

Surely the catholic church's core problem is the lack of a god? Snake oil salesmen with a range of major problems (as outlined above)

[seafoid]

There is a very sinister narrative emerging. The church doesnt have a peadophilia problem, it has a gay priest problem. If they were just more homophobic all would be fixed.

Aside from conflating homosexuality and paedophilia, it choses to miss the point for agenda reasons. And enables the beasts

The narrative should be that the church has a cover up problem.

The narrative is a good longer than that.

The church has a relevance issue. Relevance is a subjective measure. Each decides for themselves what is relevant. But the votes are in and have been counted. In Ireland like the rest of the western world the church's relevance is marginal and declining.

The church has an ethical issue. There seems to be an absence of ethical fibre at the core of the church. The horrific short comings in the response to the continuous abuse scandal confirms the emptiness at the heart of the church.

The church has leadership issues. It doesn't know what way to go next and it doesn't know where to find uncontaminated leaders.

The church has criminal issues. It will continue to find difficulties unless it comes to terms with the fact that the criminality it oversees will ultimately be exposed to the criminal justice system and it would be best to come clean.

In short it is dysfunctional and it's dysfunction is endemic

The core problem is celibacy. It means the church is a magnet for predators. Even if 95% of priests are decent the predators do wanton damage.
Leadership is atrocious. Zero accountability.

And now they have lost the people which is institutional cancer.
Of course Ireland will remain culturally catholic for a long time after the music dies....

Surely the catholic church's core problem is the lack of a god? Snake oil salesmen with a range of major problems (as outlined above)

Not necessarily. Groupthink can be very helpful

[armaghniac]

The core problem is celibacy. It means the church is a magnet for predators. Even if 95% of priests are decent the predators do wanton damage.

A change in celibacy may or may not be desirable, but it is not the core problem. The core issue is access, not many of these paedos join enclosed orders.

Leadership is atrocious. Zero accountability.

There is the real problem.

[seafoid]

The core problem is celibacy. It means the church is a magnet for predators. Even if 95% of priests are decent the predators do wanton damage.

A change in celibacy may or may not be desirable, but it is not the core problem. The core issue is access, not many of these paedos join enclosed orders.

[quoteLeadership is atrocious. Zero accountability.

There is the real problem.
[/quote]i saw something on the Irish Times site in a video where researchers estimate a total of 1200 clerical abusers. That is more than on the sex offenders register i imagine and a shocking concentration that is bigger than amongst sports coaches, the other prominent paedo host.

Celibacy is a huge problem because it influences the profile of the community and attracts the wrong kind of people. The leadership deficit means that managers are unable to manage behavior. The result is a catastrophe.