Brexit.

Started by T Fearon, November 01, 2015, 06:04:06 PM

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sid waddell

Quote from: dec on December 12, 2018, 09:46:14 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 12, 2018, 09:10:59 PM
peoples vote is the only way to get a consensus on this!

There was a peoples vote.

That's what got us into this mess in the first place.
It is.

It should never, ever have been held.

But conversely, another one is the only real chance of getting out of the mess caused by the first one.

BennyCake

Quote from: dec on December 12, 2018, 09:46:14 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 12, 2018, 09:10:59 PM
peoples vote is the only way to get a consensus on this!

There was a peoples vote.

That's what got us into this mess in the first place.

What got us into this mess is successive British governments screwing over successive generations in Britain. So, really it's the British governments fault.

armaghniac

Quote from: BennyCake on December 12, 2018, 11:01:48 PM
Quote from: dec on December 12, 2018, 09:46:14 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 12, 2018, 09:10:59 PM
peoples vote is the only way to get a consensus on this!

There was a peoples vote.

That's what got us into this mess in the first place.

Who voted for the governments?

What got us into this mess is successive British governments screwing over successive generations in Britain. So, really it's the British governments fault.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

seafoid

#5673
Quote from: sid waddell on December 12, 2018, 10:26:02 PM
Quote from: dec on December 12, 2018, 09:46:14 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 12, 2018, 09:10:59 PM
peoples vote is the only way to get a consensus on this!

There was a peoples vote.

That's what got us into this mess in the first place.
It is.

It should never, ever have been held.

But conversely, another one is the only real chance of getting out of the mess caused by the first one.

The ref vote was about an idea with no detail and it was supported enthusiastically by most of post industrial N and Mid England.
These people have been shafted for over a generation.

The UK can have a people's vote but unless it deals with the despair behind the leave vote the chaos will continue

A popular vote won't put the genie back in the bottle

https://mobile.twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1071013456948707328
"f**k it, just score"- Donaghy   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IbxG2WwVRjU

bennydorano

Quote from: lenny on December 12, 2018, 06:13:07 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 12, 2018, 05:04:30 PM
Quote from: lenny on December 12, 2018, 03:37:07 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 12, 2018, 03:06:40 PM
A Hard Border is a bit of a bogeyman, very unlikely to see any physical infrastructure, it'll be a technical border if it comes to it. The UK has repeatedly said it won't man any border and can't be compelled to by the EU in a no deal situation, the ball will be in the EU / Ireland's court if that particular chicken comes home to roost.

You're listening to kate hoey and david davis a bit too much ie idiots. If it's a hard brexit or no deal there will definitely be a hard border with infrastructure. There's no way of avoiding it.
Who is going to build it when both sides have clearly said it can't or won't happen? A solution will be found if and when the actual problem presents itself. It's as likely as Trump's Mexican wall.

lol, you're very naive. Why do you think there's a backstop at all then? It's there to prevent a hard border which the people at the coal face of the negotiations knew would be inevitable if there was jo agreement.
What do people think when they hear Hard Border? Brits lining the roads in South Armagh, Aughnacloy, Strabane/Lifford. That's the Bogeyman being raised, different customs regimes doesn't necessarily mean Soldiers manning borders - Ports & Airports a different kettle of fish, but there's already processes in place there. Technical solutions will be found (if required) for goods & services if they are not already there.

guy crouchback

the argument goes that a permanent customs post only has no cop/solider until the fist hard man takes a pot shot at one some night.
from there we escalate to armed customs posts to protect the customs officers.

even if there are no customs posts per se only cameras on poles the same thing happens when the cameras start getting destroyed now you need a cop/solider to mind the camera

bennydorano

Sort of missing the point that Customs for goods don't have to be conducted at the border itself at all.

BennyCake

Quote from: armaghniac on December 13, 2018, 12:01:14 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on December 12, 2018, 11:01:48 PM
Quote from: dec on December 12, 2018, 09:46:14 PM
Quote from: screenexile on December 12, 2018, 09:10:59 PM
peoples vote is the only way to get a consensus on this!

There was a peoples vote.

That's what got us into this mess in the first place.

Who voted for the governments?

What got us into this mess is successive British governments screwing over successive generations in Britain. So, really it's the British governments fault.

Voting for one squad of toffs or another? Hardly a great choice. It matters little in the great scheme of things. People probably felt with a referendum they could really have their say, unlike a general election.

haranguerer

Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2018, 09:45:08 AM
Sort of missing the point that Customs for goods don't have to be conducted at the border itself at all.
Quote from: haranguerer on December 12, 2018, 03:30:36 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 12, 2018, 03:06:40 PM
A Hard Border is a bit of a bogeyman, very unlikely to see any physical infrastructure, it'll be a technical border if it comes to it. The UK has repeatedly said it won't man any border and can't be compelled to by the EU in a no deal situation, the ball will be in the EU / Ireland's court if that particular chicken comes home to roost.

Describe a technical border to me

Still waiting benny

RadioGAAGAA

Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2018, 09:45:08 AM
Sort of missing the point that Customs for goods don't have to be conducted at the border itself at all.

What world is that your in?

So how do you stop cattle being smuggled across the border on the back of a lorry?

Cattle raised in (say) Armagh taken across to (say) Monaghan - retagged as local cattle and put into the EU food chain.

Are Customs gonna have helicopters and drones watching every farmyard and tracing lorries that drive up and down the road with proverbial SWAT teams cruising around in white transit vans ready to swoop and catch everyone loading/unloading the livestock?

If they ask the farmer after the event - "Ah, just buying a rake of straw bales from a man up the road - no import duty on straw bales there fella".
i usse an speelchekor

brokencrossbar1

The harder the border the higher the 'duty' on the old black market.... i know men praying for it!

armaghniac

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 13, 2018, 10:36:09 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2018, 09:45:08 AM
Sort of missing the point that Customs for goods don't have to be conducted at the border itself at all.

What world is that your in?

So how do you stop cattle being smuggled across the border on the back of a lorry?

Cattle raised in (say) Armagh taken across to (say) Monaghan - retagged as local cattle and put into the EU food chain.

Are Customs gonna have helicopters and drones watching every farmyard and tracing lorries that drive up and down the road with proverbial SWAT teams cruising around in white transit vans ready to swoop and catch everyone loading/unloading the livestock?

If they ask the farmer after the event - "Ah, just buying a rake of straw bales from a man up the road - no import duty on straw bales there fella".

I think you have things the wrong way around there, in this day and age some DNA testing of cattle might be capable of identifying animals brought for slaughter in legitimate plants. The import of straw into the  EU would require an inspection though.

As for import duty, the British loonies are proposing to abolish all import duty, which the EU would not reciprocate. The place would quickly be flooded with South American beef etc and UK farmers would be banjaxed. None of this makes sense, but no deal doesn't make sense.
If at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

bennydorano

Quote from: haranguerer on December 13, 2018, 10:19:17 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2018, 09:45:08 AM
Sort of missing the point that Customs for goods don't have to be conducted at the border itself at all.
Quote from: haranguerer on December 12, 2018, 03:30:36 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 12, 2018, 03:06:40 PM
A Hard Border is a bit of a bogeyman, very unlikely to see any physical infrastructure, it'll be a technical border if it comes to it. The UK has repeatedly said it won't man any border and can't be compelled to by the EU in a no deal situation, the ball will be in the EU / Ireland's court if that particular chicken comes home to roost.

Describe a technical border to me

Still waiting benny
Ah ffs, I'm making this exact point in other interactions, can you not just read them. No physical border infrastructure (Brits manning posts), technical solutions to differing customs regimes executed away from actual border areas.  These ideas (& alleged solutions found) are being discussed daily by the Brexiteers and like it's not as though them boys don't know what they're talking about ??? :P

trailer

Quote from: RadioGAAGAA on December 13, 2018, 10:36:09 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2018, 09:45:08 AM
Sort of missing the point that Customs for goods don't have to be conducted at the border itself at all.

What world is that your in?

So how do you stop cattle being smuggled across the border on the back of a lorry?

Cattle raised in (say) Armagh taken across to (say) Monaghan - retagged as local cattle and put into the EU food chain.

Are Customs gonna have helicopters and drones watching every farmyard and tracing lorries that drive up and down the road with proverbial SWAT teams cruising around in white transit vans ready to swoop and catch everyone loading/unloading the livestock?

If they ask the farmer after the event - "Ah, just buying a rake of straw bales from a man up the road - no import duty on straw bales there fella".

This is an issue already that is dealt with. Smuggling of livestock is very difficult even with no border.

haranguerer

Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2018, 11:12:53 AM
Quote from: haranguerer on December 13, 2018, 10:19:17 AM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 13, 2018, 09:45:08 AM
Sort of missing the point that Customs for goods don't have to be conducted at the border itself at all.
Quote from: haranguerer on December 12, 2018, 03:30:36 PM
Quote from: bennydorano on December 12, 2018, 03:06:40 PM
A Hard Border is a bit of a bogeyman, very unlikely to see any physical infrastructure, it'll be a technical border if it comes to it. The UK has repeatedly said it won't man any border and can't be compelled to by the EU in a no deal situation, the ball will be in the EU / Ireland's court if that particular chicken comes home to roost.

Describe a technical border to me

Still waiting benny
Ah ffs, I'm making this exact point in other interactions, can you not just read them. No physical border infrastructure (Brits manning posts), technical solutions to differing customs regimes executed away from actual border areas.  These ideas (& alleged solutions found) are being discussed daily by the Brexiteers and like it's not as though them boys don't know what they're talking about ??? :P

Ah right. I was just making sure you haven't a clue what you're talking about, thanks.