The IRISH RUGBY thread

[Dinny Breen]

Leinster got a pasting from Wasps today in the Moneybags championship.

This is what happens when you appoint an inexperienced coaching team to cut costs. Munster/Leinster will do very little this year.

[AZOffaly]

It's all a bit flat, isn't it? I was in Thomond Park on Saturday night as usual, getting drenched to the fecking bones, and while it was a decent atmosphere and a job done type of performance, it was depressingly static and you just know that's the way it's going to be all year. Keatley is trying little kick throughs and the like because everybody knows the Munster backline just don't cut you open. Come up in a line, make your first tackle, and you'll frustrate them. A couple of breaks from Earls and Conway apart, there was very little there. Hurley is honest as the day is long, but he is a poor man's Sam Burgess, never mind Jamie Roberts. Saili hasn't settled yet, and doesn't really look like he's going to be overly tricky or electric in this game plan.

Earls is at his best out on the wing, as is Zebo, but there's no overlaps or clever lines, so they end up coming in off the wings and becoming auxiliary centres. Andrew Conway is fast and has a bit of divilment about him, but he is probably club/province level and no more.

The forwards are decent enough with ball in hand. Jack O'Donoghue did well enough, although at times he should have let the ball out wide, but I'm pretty sure Axel told him to put the head down and drive on like a lunatic when he got it. CJ Stander also good with ball in hand. Dave O'Callaghan is disruptive at 6. Chisholm and donnacha Ryan were good in the lineout, where O'Callaghan also was a factor, but they are not exactly going to set the world alight. Kilcoyne, Botha and Casey did well, Sherry was injured early, but it's very thin these days as a squad. Jones, O'Donnell, O'Mahoney are big losses.

This could be the year neither Leinster nor Munster get out of their group. I'm not sure if the game is going ahead in Paris next weekend, but if it does that is going to be a hell of an emotional game and a difficult assignment. Leicester at home could end it on the 12th of December.

[screenexile]

Leinster got a pasting from Wasps today in the Moneybags championship.

This is what happens when you appoint an inexperienced coaching team to cut costs. Munster/Leinster will do very little this year.

Yeah it's looking that way. Along with that Munster have tied their own hands with the redevelopment of Thomond meaning they can't get the big names they need like a Howlett/De Villiers or hang on to Hanrahan.

Ulster actually look best placed to be the challenging team in Ireland. They have a decent string of young players there, a strong recruiting system and you would think that Kiss is experienced enough to run the organisation correctly. I think they'll give it a rattle in 2017!

[deiseach]

Not much of a crowd at Thomond Park. Would that be typical of the visit of the Italians, AZ?

[Shamrock Shore]

Bandwagoners have disappeared for the moment.

Got annoyed at the description of the Leinster Goys as "Dubliners" by lazy BT sports lads.

Fcuk sake, do you think Ronnie, Barney and Luke gave a shite about rugby?

[AZOffaly]

Not much of a crowd at Thomond Park. Would that be typical of the visit of the Italians, AZ?

Crowds are going down in Thomond Park since the recession hit hard and the team started to stagnate. I remember (fado fado) crowds of 5 and 6 thousand in the old Thomond Park for the visits of teams like Border Reivers and the like. The Italians would be the modern equivalent, but this was a European game and you'd like to think it would have been fairly full. The weather certainly didn't help the 'I'll trot over on the day' brigade, but I would say this is the continuation of a theme. Thomond Park is rarely full these days. Leinster in the league (except now they play with depleted teams which impacted it last season) and the English and French European games, plus a 1/4 final if lucky. And even then by 'full' I'd say 20-22k out of a 26k capacity.

The ticket sales for Saturday was 16k apparently. That would include all the season tickets. I doubt 16k were there. More like 10-12k I'd say.

Average Pro 12 gate is probably between 8-12k.

[Dinny Breen]

Not much of a crowd at Thomond Park. Would that be typical of the visit of the Italians, AZ?

Crowds are going down in Thomond Park since the recession hit hard and the team started to stagnate. I remember (fado fado) crowds of 5 and 6 thousand in the old Thomond Park for the visits of teams like Border Reivers and the like. The Italians would be the modern equivalent, but this was a European game and you'd like to think it would have been fairly full. The weather certainly didn't help the 'I'll trot over on the day' brigade, but I would say this is the continuation of a theme. Thomond Park is rarely full these days. Leinster in the league (except now they play with depleted teams which impacted it last season) and the English and French European games, plus a 1/4 final if lucky. And even then by 'full' I'd say 20-22k out of a 26k capacity.

The ticket sales for Saturday was 16k apparently. That would include all the season tickets. I doubt 16k were there. More like 10-12k I'd say.

Average Pro 12 gate is probably between 8-12k.

I think they said 12.7k.

Hurley is honest as the day is long, but he is a poor man's Sam Burgess, never mind Jamie Roberts.

This, I just don't understand how he gets a game, with the pace that Munster's back three have they should be looking to get the ball wide as much as they can, everything just gets bogged down in midfield. Foley seems to live the old school Munster play book of "Earn the right to go wide", if they had someone like Hanrahan playing 12 they would be much more of a threat and have a much more varied attack. Scannell I believe can play that 2nd 5/8 role he played a lot underage at 12 but Foley seems to have a problem trusting players.

[seafoid]

It's all a bit flat, isn't it? I was in Thomond Park on Saturday night as usual, getting drenched to the fecking bones, and while it was a decent atmosphere and a job done type of performance, it was depressingly static and you just know that's the way it's going to be all year. Keatley is trying little kick throughs and the like because everybody knows the Munster backline just don't cut you open. Come up in a line, make your first tackle, and you'll frustrate them. A couple of breaks from Earls and Conway apart, there was very little there. Hurley is honest as the day is long, but he is a poor man's Sam Burgess, never mind Jamie Roberts. Saili hasn't settled yet, and doesn't really look like he's going to be overly tricky or electric in this game plan.

Earls is at his best out on the wing, as is Zebo, but there's no overlaps or clever lines, so they end up coming in off the wings and becoming auxiliary centres. Andrew Conway is fast and has a bit of divilment about him, but he is probably club/province level and no more.

The forwards are decent enough with ball in hand. Jack O'Donoghue did well enough, although at times he should have let the ball out wide, but I'm pretty sure Axel told him to put the head down and drive on like a lunatic when he got it. CJ Stander also good with ball in hand. Dave O'Callaghan is disruptive at 6. Chisholm and donnacha Ryan were good in the lineout, where O'Callaghan also was a factor, but they are not exactly going to set the world alight. Kilcoyne, Botha and Casey did well, Sherry was injured early, but it's very thin these days as a squad. Jones, O'Donnell, O'Mahoney are big losses.

This could be the year neither Leinster nor Munster get out of their group. I'm not sure if the game is going ahead in Paris next weekend, but if it does that is going to be a hell of an emotional game and a difficult assignment. Leicester at home could end it on the 12th of December.

It could be the start of a very depressing trend.

[seafoid]

Bath beat Leinster . Bad start. They have to beat Toulon now

[Walter Cronc]

Bad few weeks all round for the provinces. The gap between Pro 12 and the Premiership is widening. However its fair to say sides with a lot of players on World Cup duty have suffered - Toulon's defeat a prime example.

Another top article here from Murray Kinsella. Really hope Luke McGrath continues to progress. The off-load from Ringrose in this clip was reminiscent of another famous number 13

http://www.the42.ie/leinster-ringrose-mcgrath-youth-champions-cup-2460359-Nov2015/?utm_source=shortlink

[deiseach]

These things are cyclical. It shouldn't be long before the Irish teams bounce back thanks to the equal split of the competition reven . . . oh. Darn.

[Walter Cronc]

These things are cyclical. It shouldn't be long before the Irish teams bounce back thanks to the equal split of the competition reven . . . oh. Darn.

What is the split? Are there any figures out there?

[deiseach]

These things are cyclical. It shouldn't be long before the Irish teams bounce back thanks to the equal split of the competition reven . . . oh. Darn.

What is the split? Are there any figures out there?

The poor get a little bit richer and the rich get a whole lot richerer.

What does it all mean, particularly financially, for the Welsh regions?

As part of the peace package, revenue from European Cup rugby will now be split equally between the three competing leagues - the Aviva Premiership, the Top 14 and the Pro12.

That will see the share to the French and English clubs increase significantly - going up from their existing 24 per cent each to 33 per cent.

In turn, the Pro12 split will go down from 52 per cent to 33 per cent, but a mechanism has been put in place to give them additional funding, particularly the Welsh and Irish.

The first £60m of Euro cash will be divided three ways, with the Pro12 £20m to be carved up  pretty much equally between the four countries involved in the league.

But the next £4m will go to the Pro12 and the majority of it will head into Welsh and Irish coffers to reflect the fact they both contribute four teams to Europe whereas Scotland and Italy provide just two.

That would see Wales and Ireland both receiving about £6.8m - up from just over £4m - with Scotland and Italy ending up with £5.1m each.

So the income for the Ospreys, Scarlets, Blues and Dragons will rise from £1.1m to £1.7m apiece.

If Euro revenue rises above £80m, they will get a bigger share of the cash again and the aim is for the three leagues to be sharing £100m within five years.

[seafoid]

Do any of the Welsh teams have a big moneybags backing them ?

[Tony Baloney]

Poor weekend all round. Ulster seriously lacking in invention and intensity against Saracens and they had a desperate second half. Farrell missed 4 or 5 off the tee in kickable positions but they still won handily enough.