Figuring out who is catholic on the NI soccer panel

[Milltown Row2]

The prods were right about Rome rule down south. I don't see how the Treaty could have covered Antrim and Down.
And it is hard to see anything other than a 32 county Ireland long term.

Ok, its very simple even you can understand this, the South of Ireland and Donegal was offered a chance to break away from the northern prods, never worry about the taigs that lived there.. Took it and ran away.... That's how I view it.. The South ran away

Time you opened your eyes and read some history.

So the South didn't accept partition and we all live in a United Ireland......the South didn't want to have the prod problem, so put a border up an stick our heads in the sand, and say there was nothing we could do??

[BennyCake]

As James Craig put it.
"All I boast of is that we are a Protestant Parliament and a Protestant State. It would be rather interesting for historians of the future to compare a Catholic State launched in the South with a Protestant State launched in the North and to see which gets on the better and prospers the more. "

I wonder how the prospering bit and getting on thing is working out? Any updates on that?

Craig and Carson had to invent a culture for the Protestant state for the Protestant people that justified the status quo where the Taigs were at the bottom of the caste system. With industries like shipbuilding employing protestants exclusively it would go on forever. And England would always be the same. What could possibly go wrong.
Cavan collaborated and won over 30 Ulster titles while the model worked.
The problem with racist systems is that they are self defeating economically. Keeping people down is bad for the economy. It means the wrong focus. If you do it for too long the whole system can collapse.
The Brits changed as well. Nobody in England or Scotland gives a shit about the Somme.

I'd say a lot of people in Eng or Scot never heard of the Somme.

It's baffling to me why the Somme is looked upon as some heroic event by Protestants. Tens of thousands of young men used as cannon fodder by an empire that didn't give two fcuks about them. What an appalling waste of life. Instead of celebrating these young men's bravery and loyalty to the King, they should look at it and be outraged at the needless loss of life of their forefathers and make a conscious decision that the same thing won't happen again. If they at least thought like that, at least those young men's lives would have been worth something.

[OgraAnDun]

As James Craig put it.
"All I boast of is that we are a Protestant Parliament and a Protestant State. It would be rather interesting for historians of the future to compare a Catholic State launched in the South with a Protestant State launched in the North and to see which gets on the better and prospers the more. "

I wonder how the prospering bit and getting on thing is working out? Any updates on that?

Craig and Carson had to invent a culture for the Protestant state for the Protestant people that justified the status quo where the Taigs were at the bottom of the caste system. With industries like shipbuilding employing protestants exclusively it would go on forever. And England would always be the same. What could possibly go wrong.
Cavan collaborated and won over 30 Ulster titles while the model worked.
The problem with racist systems is that they are self defeating economically. Keeping people down is bad for the economy. It means the wrong focus. If you do it for too long the whole system can collapse.
The Brits changed as well. Nobody in England or Scotland gives a shit about the Somme.

I'd say a lot of people in Eng or Scot never heard of the Somme.

It's baffling to me why the Somme is looked upon as some heroic event by Protestants. Tens of thousands of young men used as cannon fodder by an empire that didn't give two fcuks about them. What an appalling waste of life. Instead of celebrating these young men's bravery and loyalty to the King, they should look at it and be outraged at the needless loss of life of their forefathers and make a conscious decision that the same thing won't happen again. If they at least thought like that, at least those young men's lives would have been worth something.

Allied with the fact that they don't have a monopoly on the Irish suffering in the Somme, as plenty of IV members were packed off to die winning rights for Belgium by Redmond in a supposed effort to secure Home Rule.

[Farrandeelin]

No wonder there's partition. Can't we all get along to defeat it? No point in blaming us 'Southerners' for what the majority did in 1922.*

[LeoMc]

The prods were right about Rome rule down south. I don't see how the Treaty could have covered Antrim and Down.
And it is hard to see anything other than a 32 county Ireland long term.

Ok, its very simple even you can understand this, the South of Ireland and Donegal was offered a chance to break away from the northern prods, never worry about the taigs that lived there.. Took it and ran away.... That's how I view it.. The South ran away

That is what happened in practice. The Border Commission never took.place. There was nobody to stand up for the catholics in Belfast or Derry when it came to jobs or housing.

I thought the border commission did take place but got leaked and then suppressed?
Minimal changes were proposed.

[LeoMc]

It only exists as as an area of one country under the rule of another country.
You can't get " Northern Ireland" passports and I've never heard of a "Northern Ireland" Embassy anywhere.

So Scotland isn't a country either.

Who's the Scottish Ambassador to Ireland?

It's usually the Celtic manager
Scotland was an independent country when it joined the Union. If it left the Union it would be an independent country.
Northern Ireland did not join the  union as an independent country. It threw its toys out of the pram prior to 1920.

Did Collins not sign us out of the country??

Carson screamed blue murder and Craig got the guns in.
NI has always been a negative thing. No Home rule, no surrender, no Taigs running the show.

It wasn't NI then but sure you usually rewrite history to suit yourself....

Prior to the Anglo Irish treaty there were 2 parliaments (local assemblies). What were their official descriptions?
Ireland seceded from Britain. NI seceded from Ireland.

[michaelg]

Was wondering how these billboards of the players will go down in their home town/village. In particular, Niall McGinn's in Donaghmore.

...and Chris Baird, wherever he's from again.

Loving Kyle lafferty billboard in newry

For what's it worth hope both Ireland's do well
As long as the gaa is on tv the euros won't annoy me

I notice the Oliver Norwood poster doesn't say "Burnley"

Fair point, but more home gown players in NI than ROI team.

[Farrandeelin]

Correct LeoMc. East Donegal was to go to NI. Can't remember what the Free State was supposed to gain. Not much. The negotiators must have been very weak.

Think it was a Unionist paper that leaked the info.

[Rossfan]

As far as I recall from a TV programme there were 3 on the Commission- Eoin Mac Néill, a Brit Judge and a South African one.
They other 2 outvoted Mac Neill all along and basically dismissed all Free State demands for Derry, South Armagh, Fermanagh etc.
Stormont wanted North Monaghan and East Donegal.
Ended up leaving the border as it was and the FS got absolved from some payments to the Brits ( land annuities or British Govt debts?)
Cosgrove called it a " damn good bargain".
What was the FS to do then?
Raise a big conscript army ( with no money to pay them) and invade the 6Cos?
Can you imagine how many Catholics would have been murdered in Belfast, Antrim north Armagh, etc....50,000?
Then we'd have to take revenge in Fermanagh, Tyrone, south Down etc
...

[seafoid]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Boundary_Commission
Diarmaid Ferriter suggests a more complex tradeoff; the debt obligation was removed from the Free State and non-publication of the report, in return for the Free State dropping its claim to rule some Catholic/nationalist areas of Northern Ireland. Each side could blame the other side for the outcome. William Cosgrave admitted that the security of the Catholic minority depended on the goodwill of their neighbours

[Milltown Row2]

As far as I recall from a TV programme there were 3 on the Commission- Eoin Mac Néill, a Brit Judge and a South African one.
They other 2 outvoted Mac Neill all along and basically dismissed all Free State demands for Derry, South Armagh, Fermanagh etc.
Stormont wanted North Monaghan and East Donegal.
Ended up leaving the border as it was and the FS got absolved from some payments to the Brits ( land annuities or British Govt debts?)
Cosgrove called it a " damn good bargain".
What was the FS to do then?
Raise a big conscript army ( with no money to pay them) and invade the 6Cos?
Can you imagine how many Catholics would have been murdered in Belfast, Antrim north Armagh, etc....50,000?
Then we'd have to take revenge in Fermanagh, Tyrone, south Down etc
...

So they fecked us over for money? Brilliant

[seafoid]

As far as I recall from a TV programme there were 3 on the Commission- Eoin Mac Néill, a Brit Judge and a South African one.
They other 2 outvoted Mac Neill all along and basically dismissed all Free State demands for Derry, South Armagh, Fermanagh etc.
Stormont wanted North Monaghan and East Donegal.
Ended up leaving the border as it was and the FS got absolved from some payments to the Brits ( land annuities or British Govt debts?)
Cosgrove called it a " damn good bargain".
What was the FS to do then?
Raise a big conscript army ( with no money to pay them) and invade the 6Cos?
Can you imagine how many Catholics would have been murdered in Belfast, Antrim north Armagh, etc....50,000?
Then we'd have to take revenge in Fermanagh, Tyrone, south Down etc
...

So they fecked us over for money? Brilliant

The government side felt that a boundary of some sort, and partition, had been on the cards for years. If the boundary was moved towards Belfast it would be harder to eliminate in the long term. Kevin O'Higgins pondered:


...whether the Boundary Commission at any time was a wonderful piece of constructive statesmanship, the shoving up of a line, four, five or ten miles, leaving the Nationalists north of that line in a smaller minority than is at present the case, leaving the pull towards union, the pull towards the south, smaller and weaker than is at present the case.

On 9 December a deputation of Irish nationalists from Northern Ireland arrived to make their views known to the Dáil, but were turned away.[

[Milltown Row2]

As far as I recall from a TV programme there were 3 on the Commission- Eoin Mac Néill, a Brit Judge and a South African one.
They other 2 outvoted Mac Neill all along and basically dismissed all Free State demands for Derry, South Armagh, Fermanagh etc.
Stormont wanted North Monaghan and East Donegal.
Ended up leaving the border as it was and the FS got absolved from some payments to the Brits ( land annuities or British Govt debts?)
Cosgrove called it a " damn good bargain".
What was the FS to do then?
Raise a big conscript army ( with no money to pay them) and invade the 6Cos?
Can you imagine how many Catholics would have been murdered in Belfast, Antrim north Armagh, etc....50,000?
Then we'd have to take revenge in Fermanagh, Tyrone, south Down etc
...

So they fecked us over for money? Brilliant

The government side felt that a boundary of some sort, and partition, had been on the cards for years. If the boundary was moved towards Belfast it would be harder to eliminate in the long term. Kevin O'Higgins pondered:


...whether the Boundary Commission at any time was a wonderful piece of constructive statesmanship, the shoving up of a line, four, five or ten miles, leaving the Nationalists north of that line in a smaller minority than is at present the case, leaving the pull towards union, the pull towards the south, smaller and weaker than is at present the case.

On 9 December a deputation of Irish nationalists from Northern Ireland arrived to make their views known to the Dáil, but were turned away.[

Hows that going?? Explain long term? 

[armaghniac]

As far as I recall from a TV programme there were 3 on the Commission- Eoin Mac Néill, a Brit Judge and a South African one.
They other 2 outvoted Mac Neill all along and basically dismissed all Free State demands for Derry, South Armagh, Fermanagh etc.
Stormont wanted North Monaghan and East Donegal.
Ended up leaving the border as it was and the FS got absolved from some payments to the Brits ( land annuities or British Govt debts?)
Cosgrove called it a " damn good bargain".
What was the FS to do then?
Raise a big conscript army ( with no money to pay them) and invade the 6Cos?
Can you imagine how many Catholics would have been murdered in Belfast, Antrim north Armagh, etc....50,000?
Then we'd have to take revenge in Fermanagh, Tyrone, south Down etc
...

So they fecked us over for money? Brilliant

The government side felt that a boundary of some sort, and partition, had been on the cards for years. If the boundary was moved towards Belfast it would be harder to eliminate in the long term. Kevin O'Higgins pondered:


...whether the Boundary Commission at any time was a wonderful piece of constructive statesmanship, the shoving up of a line, four, five or ten miles, leaving the Nationalists north of that line in a smaller minority than is at present the case, leaving the pull towards union, the pull towards the south, smaller and weaker than is at present the case.

On 9 December a deputation of Irish nationalists from Northern Ireland arrived to make their views known to the Dáil, but were turned away.[

Hows that going?? Explain long term?

O'Higgins thought that perhaps if people from a nationalist bakcground became a majority in NI that partition might end  and of course this will soon happen, but would not have happened if Derry etc had been transferred into the 26 counties.. When he hasn't reckoned on was on them becoming "Northern Irish" and supporting sectarian sporting teams and the like.

[seafoid]

100 years on and  things are again falling apart. If Scotland leaves the UK, NI's position will be under severe pressure. It costs 10bn a year to keep the lights on
So much for Craig's prediction that the north would outperform economically.
England is going through serious ructions

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/may/26/immigration-england-ons-migration-london-eu-referendum
The whole Brexit thing is a sign of how bad things are over there.

Nigel dodds and co can plamas the Queen al they want at Westminster but a self reliant economy would make far more sense for them. 
People 100 years ago had identities that suddenly disappeared when borders were shifted .