Author Topic: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.  (Read 53393 times)

winghalfback

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A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« on: May 27, 2015, 03:16:23 PM »
Hi all just something I have been thinking about since the most recent elections. A United Ireland, Eire Nua, Independent Peoples Republic of Ireland how ever you want to call it.
How would it look?
What way would it work?
How do we make it inclusive of all the people of the island as set out by the men of 1916 through the proclamation?
How do we entice the unionist people to want to be part of an independent republic?
Do the majority of Irish people want to be part of a 32 county independent Republic?
So many questions to so many to all these questions even. So many opinions on this subject. Coming up to 100 years from the Easter Rising I feel it's a discussion worth having.
What are your Views?

Farrandeelin

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2015, 04:15:45 PM »
Good topic whb. To be honest I'm no economic expert so I won't pretend to know how it woould function if it were to happen. I honestly don't know how to entice unionists either, just look at Tom Elliot, he won't even go to a GAA match ffs. I would like to see a united Ireland in my lifetime, but people's attitudes have to change. That includes people from the 26 who exist in an 'I'm alright Jack' type lifestyle. I know I haven't answered any of your.questions, but it's my tippence worth anyway.
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dec

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #2 on: May 27, 2015, 04:24:27 PM »
How do we entice the unionist people to want to be part of an independent republic?

The Brits have spent 800+ years trying to persuade us that we are British and that we should be happy being part of the UK.

It hasn't worked.

What makes you think that there is any chance of us persuading the Unionists that they are not British and that they should leave the UK.

deiseach

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #3 on: May 27, 2015, 04:30:03 PM »
How do we entice the unionist people to want to be part of an independent republic?

The Brits have spent 800+ years trying to persuade us that we are British and that we should be happy being part of the UK.

It hasn't worked.

What makes you think that there is any chance of us persuading the Unionists that they are not British and that they should leave the UK.

Jeez, give us a chance to engage in 300 pages of waffle (at least 20 pages worth of which will come from my keyboard) before posting something as sensible as that.

LCohen

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2015, 05:10:47 PM »
If there were 2 Yes votes for a United Ireland in separate referenda either side of the border I still don't think that there would a simple United Ireland without some British involvement in the North. People would have to prep themselves for that type of united Ireland

Pub Bore

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2015, 05:20:28 PM »
If the Brits are prepared to give us a shed load of dough I'm prepared to consider nearly anything

Hardy

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2015, 05:27:30 PM »
Yiz'd have to give up the accent. And calling what the world calls a fry and is slightly ashamed of eating "The Ulster Fry". And being proud of it as the flagship of your cuisine. And the accent.
I studied deeply in the philosophies and religions, but cheerfulness kept breaking through - L.Cohen

Bingo

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2015, 05:28:41 PM »
Would there not have to be 3 referenda for each independent state involved:

1. Northern Ireland
2. Republic of Ireland
3. South Armagh

 ;)

armaghniac

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2015, 05:38:24 PM »
How do we entice the unionist people to want to be part of an independent republic?

The Brits have spent 800+ years trying to persuade us that we are British and that we should be happy being part of the UK.

It hasn't worked.

What makes you think that there is any chance of us persuading the Unionists that they are not British.

The difference is that we are not in Britain and any attempt to convince people that they are something else is always a hard sell. The unionists are in Ireland and them being Irish is simple normality, in the end normality asserts itself.
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

muppet

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2015, 05:49:19 PM »
Quote
How do we make it inclusive of all the people of the island as set out by the men of 1916 through the proclamation?
How do we entice the unionist people to want to be part of an independent republic?

Does it have to be based on the 1916 Proclamation?

Put is this way. Imagine the Plenary session at the beginning of talks, chaired by some international martyr. Someone takes out the 1916 Proclamation and says it must be based on that. Any Unionist at the table (secretly delighted by this) takes out the Act of Union and says it must be no more than an amended version of that. Another group take out the Bible and insist that the new State must comply with Scripture while Joe Higgins says the meeting must address all attendees as Comrade. FF suggest all communications be done via brown envelope while FG say envelope's are untrustworthy and we should use their man's mobile phones.

The Chairman would send them all outside with knives and tell them more blood needs to be spilled until you all cop the f*ck on.
MWWSI 2017

dec

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2015, 06:00:10 PM »
The difference is that we are not in Britain and any attempt to convince people that they are something else is always a hard sell. The unionists are in Ireland and them being Irish is simple normality, in the end normality asserts itself.

And right there you have a perfect illustration of why we will never be able to persuade the unionists to leave the UK and join a united Ireland.

armaghniac

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2015, 06:02:01 PM »
The difference is that we are not in Britain and any attempt to convince people that they are something else is always a hard sell. The unionists are in Ireland and them being Irish is simple normality, in the end normality asserts itself.

And right there you have a perfect illustration of why we will never be able to persuade the unionists to leave the UK and join a united Ireland.

I post white and you say black. Perhaps you might want to elaborate.
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

dec

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2015, 06:07:28 PM »
The difference is that we are not in Britain and any attempt to convince people that they are something else is always a hard sell. The unionists are in Ireland and them being Irish is simple normality, in the end normality asserts itself.

And right there you have a perfect illustration of why we will never be able to persuade the unionists to leave the UK and join a united Ireland.

I post white and you say black. Perhaps you might want to elaborate.

Rather than recognise their identity and look to ways that it could be incorporated into a united Ireland you simply tell them "No you're not British" and expect them to agree to it. If you can't understand why that won't persuade them into a united Ireland then there is nothing I can say that will get you to understand.

armaghniac

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2015, 06:24:06 PM »
The difference is that we are not in Britain and any attempt to convince people that they are something else is always a hard sell. The unionists are in Ireland and them being Irish is simple normality, in the end normality asserts itself.

And right there you have a perfect illustration of why we will never be able to persuade the unionists to leave the UK and join a united Ireland.

I post white and you say black. Perhaps you might want to elaborate.

Rather than recognise their identity and look to ways that it could be incorporated into a united Ireland you simply tell them "No you're not British" and expect them to agree to it. If you can't understand why that won't persuade them into a united Ireland then there is nothing I can say that will get you to understand.

They may consider themselves as being of British heritage if they wish, but that has no implications for political structures any more than Irish Americans required to be actually ruled from Dublin. All I want is normality.
if at first you don't succeed, then goto Plan B

michaelg

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Re: A United Ireland. Opening up the discussion.
« Reply #14 on: May 27, 2015, 06:50:27 PM »
The difference is that we are not in Britain and any attempt to convince people that they are something else is always a hard sell. The unionists are in Ireland and them being Irish is simple normality, in the end normality asserts itself.

And right there you have a perfect illustration of why we will never be able to persuade the unionists to leave the UK and join a united Ireland.

I post white and you say black. Perhaps you might want to elaborate.

Rather than recognise their identity and look to ways that it could be incorporated into a united Ireland you simply tell them "No you're not British" and expect them to agree to it. If you can't understand why that won't persuade them into a united Ireland then there is nothing I can say that will get you to understand.

They may consider themselves as being of British heritage if they wish, but that has no implications for political structures any more than Irish Americans required to be actually ruled from Dublin. All I want is normality.
Except for the fact that Northern Ireland is still part of the United Kingdom.