Rugby - what's the attraction?

[Lar Naparka]

I played the game and I love it.
I know many people can't follow what's going on as it's primarily a player's sport and the laws can be  bit arcane but as an antidote to stress it's hard to beat.
What other sport can accommodate the likes of Peter Stringer, Bull Hayes and Tommy Bowe and last but not least, Paul O'Connell?
As Mark Twain once put it, "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."
He could well have been thinking of rugby at the time.

[deiseach]

At the Ireland Cyprus game, poor ol Stevie Staunton got tirades of abuse the whole match, but the real clincher for me was when Ireland (I thing robbie Keane) scored the equalizing goal the HOME "Support" booed!!

It was Steve Finnan. There were a lot of jeers when it went in but even Steve Staunton accepted they had a point.

[ballinaman]

I'm going to have to agree with Laoislad here, tried my best to get into rugby...went to see Ireland V France, Heineken cup final last year, Thomand and even up in Ravenhill once but can't seem to warm to the game at all. Huge respect for the players involved because skill and conditioning levels are great but the game itself...fairly meh. Just as stop start as american football (which i enjoy more) imo.

[rodney trotter]

Is it right that people dislike a sport because of the class of people that play it?
I know of people who don't like the GAA because they see it as a bastion of culchiedom and muck savagery.

Each to their own i suppose. I like most Sports, A lot of Rugby players played Gaa when they were younger. Rob Keareny played with Louth Minors, Shane Horgan played with Meath Minors. John Hayes is a Farmer now, so he is use to muck savagery ha.

[laoislad]

I have actually watched and enjoyed the other form of Rugby, Rugby League.
Wouldn't be a huge fan or anything but I went to several games while in Australia and it is certainly more entertaining to watch than Rugby union IMO.

[outinfront]

Laois Lad - have to agree.  I watched the Super Cup final there at the weekend and the athletisism, strength and fitness of those lads is unreal. I like rugby union too but would really only watch international RU.

[Bingo]

Its like everything, people have different tastes - choice of pint, choice of women (or man), choice of food, choice of religion, choice of hobby, choice of sport, choice of team. Its never ending.

While its a credible debate on the merits and attractions of rugby, its not going to change ones views on it.

I would say though that rugby is the most bandwagon sport in Ireland with the 6 nations possibly been the only time that people will view the sport in a large part of the country. This is probably changing in recent years with the heineken cup and Magners league (or whatever its called).

But i would imagine that the club participation levels pro rata to the viewing figures for the six nations is very low. Many people's team are one of the provinces or the national team itself. I could be wrong.

[rodney trotter]

Its like everything, people have different tastes - choice of pint, choice of women (or man), choice of food, choice of religion, choice of hobby, choice of sport, choice of team. Its never ending.

While its a credible debate on the merits and attractions of rugby, its not going to change ones views on it.

I would say though that rugby is the most bandwagon sport in Ireland with the 6 nations possibly been the only time that people will view the sport in a large part of the country. This is probably changing in recent years with the heineken cup and Magners league (or whatever its called).

But i would imagine that the club participation levels pro rata to the viewing figures for the six nations is very low. Many people's team are one of the provinces or the national team itself. I could be wrong.

It would be province for most people, unless you lived in a strong Rugby playing area. I'm from Cavan and there is only 2 Rugby teams in the County, Virginia and Cavan Rugby Club. They are both a long way off AIL League standard. Gaelic Football is the main sport in Cavan, under age soccer is very big at the minute and gettting bigger year by year. It is alot bigger than Hurling was or ever will be in Cavan.

The Magners league is called the PRO 12 now.

[trileacman]

I like rugby, the rules have always adapted over the years to compensate for changes in tactics or play. Soccer and GAA haven't, getting a rule change is like putting a man on the moon in those sports.

As an example how many top level rugby games are decided simply by a referees mistake? How many end in hollers of abuse where he has to be escorted of the field or threatened?

I can only think of two such examples, Munster several years ago in the Heineken Cup and NZ v France in 2007, even then the action the referee missed was minimal at best.

Soccer has a shite result every week and Fifa sit on their f**king hands for the last 50 years. Cheating/ fouling the ref is rewarded and not punishable after the fact. No hawk-eye no tv replay nothing at all to decide on borderline decision which in soccer (due to the low scoring) are worth more than any sport.
Same in GAA, cynicism is routinely rewarded and without it teams get nowhere. Worst still it is openly applauded, look at Donegal/ Dublin/ Armagh/ Tyrone, they got nowhere playing the old game and had to incorporate cynicism into their game to succeed.

Now rugby is not free from cynicism or professional fouls but they have created strategies to tackle it. Yellow card, red card, sin bin, penalty try, free kick, scrum down, advantage all ways to differentiate between professional fouls and simple mistakes. In Gaa if a defender double hops the ball our gets caught in possession on his 21 yard line its is punished the same way as a player straight through on goal being cynically brought down by the last defender. Happens routinely, happened last Sunday in the Tyrone county final. And don't tell me he gets a yellow card, how many times have you seen a lad get sent off following an action like this, as his first or second yellow card? It's either so late in the match that its unlikely to see him get carded again or else he's pulled ashore for another fella to come on and start systematically fouling.

Rugby's not perfect but at least they actively try to tackle faults in the game (with the exception of the scrum).

[deiseach]

As an example how many top level rugby games are decided simply by a referees mistake? How many end in hollers of abuse where he has to be escorted of the field or threatened?

I can only think of two such examples, Munster several years ago in the Heineken Cup and NZ v France in 2007, even then the action the referee missed was minimal at best.

I would suggest that rugby doesn't appear as prone to refereeing mistakes as Gaelic games or soccer because games are rarely level going down the stretch. It feels more devastating when the match turns on a refereeing decision in those circumstances. But when you consider the abuse Alain Rolland got for making the right decision in the Wales-France semi-final last year, this idea that rugby is free of referees deciding matches is fanciful.

[LeoMc]

Its like everything, people have different tastes - choice of pint, choice of women (or man), choice of food, choice of religion, choice of hobby, choice of sport, choice of team. Its never ending.

While its a credible debate on the merits and attractions of rugby, its not going to change ones views on it.

I would say though that rugby is the most bandwagon sport in Ireland with the 6 nations possibly been the only time that people will view the sport in a large part of the country. This is probably changing in recent years with the heineken cup and Magners league (or whatever its called).

But i would imagine that the club participation levels pro rata to the viewing figures for the six nations is very low. Many people's team are one of the provinces or the national team itself. I could be wrong.

It would be province for most people, unless you lived in a strong Rugby playing area. I'm from Cavan and there is only 2 Rugby teams in the County, Virginia and Cavan Rugby Club. They are both a long way off AIL League standard. Gaelic Football is the main sport in Cavan, under age soccer is very big at the minute and gettting bigger year by year. It is alot bigger than Hurling was or ever will be in Cavan.

The Magners league is called the PRO 12 now.

If ye will let yer best hurlers move to Kildare!

[Dinny Breen]

For me rugby is about club and country, I coach three teams including a Leinster under-age development team but I rarely go watch Leinster play and am very apathetic these towards the Leinster professional team. In fact the way in which professional rugby has grown in the sense of crowd attendance, marketing and TV coverage absolutely amazes me, it really bought into our sense of tribalness (is that a word). I have always supported my country, first game was the Millennium game against England in 1988, Chris Oti scored a hat-trick for England. There is no bandwagon for the national team, those were dark days for Irish rugby but yet Lansdowne Road was always a sell-out and you could only get tickets through your club.

The bandwagon is around the Provinces, Munster been the worst of any sport in Ireland in living memory (The Brave and Faithful et al) although Leinster these days aren't far behind, still amuses me that so many "passionate" Leinster fans have never been to a club game.

Rugby clubs have the exact same problem as many GAA clubs - emigration, lack of funding, competition from other clubs/sports, lack of volunteers etc etc.

On the development team I coach at least half play GAA, some of these are on Inter-County development squads, Kildare, Meath and Laois. They are now at a stage in both codes where they have to make a choice as the demands mean they need to focus on one sport or be left behind, most of these kids are only 15 years of age, tough decision for young minds. Rugby though in general is not a threat to GAA - there are more less the same number of GAA clubs in Kildare as rugby clubs in Leinster and there is more GAA clubs in Cork that there are rugby clubs in the whole island.

Unfortunately there is a stigma attached to certain rugby supporters, a cliche becomes a cliche because their is an element of truth. Within rugby circles there is still a certain snobbery element, typified by the question "What school did you go to?" - it still exists not as common as say 20 years ago and Leinster rugby and Irish have generally lost this kind of supporter, these days you find them only at a Leinster Schools Cup games.

My own favourite team sports to watch are Football, rugby union, soccer, rugby league and hurling. Apart from boxing find individual sports boring to watch but ok to play.

[deiseach]

Nice post, Dinny. Good to hear an account from the coal face of rugby.

[rodney trotter]

Its like everything, people have different tastes - choice of pint, choice of women (or man), choice of food, choice of religion, choice of hobby, choice of sport, choice of team. Its never ending.

While its a credible debate on the merits and attractions of rugby, its not going to change ones views on it.

I would say though that rugby is the most bandwagon sport in Ireland with the 6 nations possibly been the only time that people will view the sport in a large part of the country. This is probably changing in recent years with the heineken cup and Magners league (or whatever its called).

But i would imagine that the club participation levels pro rata to the viewing figures for the six nations is very low. Many people's team are one of the provinces or the national team itself. I could be wrong.

It would be province for most people, unless you lived in a strong Rugby playing area. I'm from Cavan and there is only 2 Rugby teams in the County, Virginia and Cavan Rugby Club. They are both a long way off AIL League standard. Gaelic Football is the main sport in Cavan, under age soccer is very big at the minute and gettting bigger year by year. It is alot bigger than Hurling was or ever will be in Cavan.

The Magners league is called the PRO 12 now.

If ye will let yer best hurlers move to Kildare!

Ha, he had to show his Hurling talents somewhere else. Cavan haven't had a Senior Hurling team in the league or Championships in past 2 years.

[Hardy]

As an example how many top level rugby games are decided simply by a referees mistake? How many end in hollers of abuse where he has to be escorted of the field or threatened?

I can only think of two such examples, Munster several years ago in the Heineken Cup and NZ v France in 2007, even then the action the referee missed was minimal at best.

I would suggest that rugby doesn't appear as prone to refereeing mistakes as Gaelic games or soccer because games are rarely level going down the stretch. It feels more devastating when the match turns on a refereeing decision in those circumstances. But when you consider the abuse Alain Rolland got for making the right decision in the Wales-France semi-final last year, this idea that rugby is free of referees deciding matches is fanciful.

Agreed. And it's not limited to questions of competence. Look at the World Cup Final. No way were France ever going to get a scorable penalty in the second half.

I disagree with trileacman that rugby is a shining light in sports administration and rule making. There are plenty examples of shortcomings in laws and practices - the scrum, discriminatory administration at the World Cup, inconsistency between regions in application/interpretation of the laws are some that come to mind.

But while holding rugby forth as a paragon doesn't stand up to scrutiny, I agree that we could learn some things from rugby administration and law-making as well. The respect for referees is probably the biggest one. It doesn't happen by accident or because the players are nice middle-class chaps. It happens because it's in the rules and enforced. As trileacman says as well, they are probably that bit better than us in ability to identify and willingness to tackle flaws in the laws that promote undesirable aspects of the game, such as the "professional" foul, with meaningful sanctions and we could learn frrom that.