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Non GAA Discussion => General discussion => Topic started by: T Fearon on June 08, 2007, 01:36:48 PM

Title: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: T Fearon on June 08, 2007, 01:36:48 PM
Noted the inception of this programme yesterday, encouraging foreign nationals to get involved with soccer.

Though the title was more than a tad ironic, given that the IFA has erected fronntiers in soccer on this island, by causing the original split, and point blankly refusing to countenance any debate about one ireland soccer side,league etc
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: SammyG on June 08, 2007, 01:42:43 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on June 08, 2007, 01:36:48 PM
Noted the inception of this programme yesterday, encouraging foreign nationals to get involved with soccer.

Though the title was more than a tad ironic, given that the IFA has erected fronntiers in soccer on this island, by causing the original split, and point blankly refusing to countenance any debate about one ireland soccer side,league etc

FFS Tony, how many times does it have to be explained before you listen. The FAI broke away not the IFA.

p.s. Good to see you're back to your old ways, twisting a good news story to have a dig.  ::)
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: T Fearon on June 08, 2007, 01:55:38 PM
Sammy, the split was caused by the IFA, the FAI might technically have broken away but it was left with no choice.

Good to see you're not arguing against the accuracy of the IFA's steadfast opposition to one Irish team, hence maintaining the football frontiers
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: SammyG on June 08, 2007, 02:01:13 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on June 08, 2007, 01:55:38 PM
Sammy, the split was caused by the IFA, the FAI might technically have broken away but it was left with no choice.

In what way was the split caused by the IFA?
Quote from: T Fearon on June 08, 2007, 01:55:38 PM
Good to see you're not arguing against the accuracy of the IFA's steadfast opposition to one Irish team, hence maintaining the football frontiers
What are you on about?
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: T Fearon on June 08, 2007, 02:20:39 PM
By its introversion (ie unwillingness to participate in early World Cups), insistence on sticking with the three real British Associations, only selecting Southern born players for certain games, omitting them from other etc.Thats how the IFA occasioned the split in Irish soccer.

Also the IFA remains the only opponents to an all Ireland soccer team therefore coming up with a Football without Frontiers mantra is laughable

Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: armaghniac on June 08, 2007, 04:13:58 PM
QuoteSammy, the split was caused by the IFA

Whatever the origin of the split, does the IFA wish to kiss and make up?
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: SammyG on June 08, 2007, 04:34:20 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 08, 2007, 04:13:58 PM
QuoteSammy, the split was caused by the IFA

Whatever the origin of the split, does the IFA wish to kiss and make up?

Kiss and make up with who?
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: armaghniac on June 08, 2007, 05:17:43 PM
QuoteKiss and make up with who?

With their separated brethren in the FAI, let bygones be bygones and all that.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: SammyG on June 08, 2007, 05:20:02 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 08, 2007, 05:17:43 PM
QuoteKiss and make up with who?

With their separated brethren in the FAI, let bygones be bygones and all that.
I have always said that if the FAI can get UEFA to change their rules, they are more than welcome to apply to rejoin the IFA.

Not sure what the players or manager or the suits in Merrion Square would think, as they'd all be out of a job.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: BallyhaiseMan on June 08, 2007, 05:45:01 PM
im not a big soccer fan,but didnt the FAI break away from the IFA?

would any reunification not result in the FAI ceasing to exist?


Two questions for the soccer fans on both sides
i always wondered would Northern Ireland fans really be totally against the idea of a united team if the IFA were in charge,and The team etc was largely based in Belfast and not Dublin,with obviously just a changed flag and anthem?

and would those on the other side of the fence,be willing to accept a United Ireland team short of having the headquarters in Dublin or the Soldiers Song/Tricolour over the team?
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Solomon Kane on June 08, 2007, 11:33:50 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on June 08, 2007, 02:20:39 PM
By its introversion (ie unwillingness to participate in early World Cups), insistence on sticking with the three real British Associations, only selecting Southern born players for certain games, omitting them from other etc.Thats how the IFA occasioned the split in Irish soccer.

Also the IFA remains the only opponents to an all Ireland soccer team therefore coming up with a Football without Frontiers mantra is laughable




Er Tony - before partition, and before the partitionist FAI there was no "North" or "South", there was just Ireland. Also, alongside the IFA UEFA and FIFA currently oppose a joint NI/ROI team.


It didn't take you long to revert to foprm did it? FFS Paisley has made more of a stab of being a decent human than you this past few months and like you he has dedicated his life to hatred. Maybe when you reach 81 you'll wise up. ;)
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Tonto on June 09, 2007, 12:23:36 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on June 08, 2007, 02:20:39 PM
By its introversion (ie unwillingness to participate in early World Cups)

Oh FFS Tony you've made a blunder akin to your suggestion that Wasps Rugby Club are so named because they are racist and sectarian.

When you consider that the first World Cup wasn't until 1930 and that the Football Association of the Irish Free State broke away from the only Association ever represent and call themselves "Ireland" some nine years prior to that event, I have the distinct feeling that your rantings are again not based upon historical fact.

Oh dear, Tony.  I won't say you've out-done yourself, but you've certainly made a good attempt. :-\
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: stew on June 09, 2007, 02:25:59 AM
Quote from: Solomon Kane on June 08, 2007, 11:33:50 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on June 08, 2007, 02:20:39 PM
By its introversion (ie unwillingness to participate in early World Cups), insistence on sticking with the three real British Associations, only selecting Southern born players for certain games, omitting them from other etc.Thats how the IFA occasioned the split in Irish soccer.

Also the IFA remains the only opponents to an all Ireland soccer team therefore coming up with a Football without Frontiers mantra is laughable




Er Tony - before partition, and before the partitionist FAI there was no "North" or "South", there was just Ireland. Also, alongside the IFA UEFA and FIFA currently oppose a joint NI/ROI team.


It didn't take you long to revert to foprm did it? FFS Paisley has made more of a stab of being a decent human than you this past few months and like you he has dedicated his life to hatred. Maybe when you reach 81 you'll wise up. ;)

Show me where Fearon has dedicated his life to hatred, to hold him up as the fenian equivilent of Paisley is disgusting and wrong.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Solomon Kane on June 09, 2007, 09:59:07 AM
Quote from: stew on June 09, 2007, 02:25:59 AM
Quote from: Solomon Kane on June 08, 2007, 11:33:50 PM
Quote from: T Fearon on June 08, 2007, 02:20:39 PM
By its introversion (ie unwillingness to participate in early World Cups), insistence on sticking with the three real British Associations, only selecting Southern born players for certain games, omitting them from other etc.Thats how the IFA occasioned the split in Irish soccer.

Also the IFA remains the only opponents to an all Ireland soccer team therefore coming up with a Football without Frontiers mantra is laughable




Er Tony - before partition, and before the partitionist FAI there was no "North" or "South", there was just Ireland. Also, alongside the IFA UEFA and FIFA currently oppose a joint NI/ROI team.


It didn't take you long to revert to foprm did it? FFS Paisley has made more of a stab of being a decent human than you this past few months and like you he has dedicated his life to hatred. Maybe when you reach 81 you'll wise up. ;)

Show me where Fearon has dedicated his life to hatred, to hold him up as the fenian equivilent of Paisley is disgusting and wrong.

Read through some of his gems about huns, scousers, people with no legs, Wasps (or is it W.A.S.Ps) rugby club to name but a few. Then find all the positive things he has to say about those who don't share his views.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: T Fearon on June 09, 2007, 10:03:58 AM
A couple of points.

Anyone who knows the history of Irish soccer  knows full well that the IFA induced the split by its parochialism and only selective inclusion of siouthern born players. Read Eoghan Corry's excellent book on the subject for the true story.

In terms of one Irish team I would happily forego all political trappings, (ie anthems, flags etc) and concede home matches being played on an alternate basis at Lansdowne and the Maze, if it mean't one independent Irish team run by one independent association as the alternative to the status quo ie two teams largely drawing support exclusively from one community and two associations, one noted for its abject incompetence (and SammyG wants the FAI to come under this umbrella of incompetence) run currently by an Englishman who presided over the demise of Wimbledon FC.

My views are not hate inducing either...they're merely logic based.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: armaghniac on June 09, 2007, 10:51:05 AM
QuoteUEFA and FIFA currently oppose a joint NI/ROI team.

well the first step to changing this would be for a realistic proposal to emerge and for someone to ask them!
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Solomon Kane on June 09, 2007, 11:58:42 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2007, 10:51:05 AM
QuoteUEFA and FIFA currently oppose a joint NI/ROI team.

well the first step to changing this would be for a realistic proposal to emerge and for someone to ask them!

Do you really believe the footballing bodies would countenance muddying the waters of their rules regarding political boundaries just to appease the political aspirations of Irish nationalists? What sort of precedent would that set in other situations? Gibraltar have recently been recognised as a footballing nation, much to the annoyance of many in Spain. Whether they are annoyed about it or not, Gibraltar is technically not part of the Spanish state. The Basque region has played as a team, but is not recognised as a nation by the footballing authorities as it has no political status.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: armaghniac on June 09, 2007, 01:34:28 PM
QuoteWhat sort of precedent would that set in other situations?

FIFA doesn't want to mess with contentious situations, in this case both governments would support the proposal, so there is no dispute, except perhaps from some who want their own sectarian football team.

Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Tonto on June 09, 2007, 02:11:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2007, 01:34:28 PM
QuoteWhat sort of precedent would that set in other situations?

FIFA doesn't want to mess with contentious situations, in this case both governments would support the proposal, so there is no dispute, except perhaps from some who want their own sectarian football team.

The Northern Ireland team, thankfully, have never been a sectarian team - just ask Jennings, Taggart, O'Neill, Armstrong and numerous others who ave been proud to represent the country of their birth.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Solomon Kane on June 09, 2007, 02:54:27 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2007, 01:34:28 PM
QuoteWhat sort of precedent would that set in other situations?

FIFA doesn't want to mess with contentious situations, in this case both governments would support the proposal, so there is no dispute, except perhaps from some who want their own sectarian football team.



You're just not worth debating with, are you? BTW, "both governments" have f**k all to say about this because FIFA do not take kindly to political interferance.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Uladh on June 09, 2007, 03:24:37 PM
Quote from: Tonto on June 09, 2007, 02:11:10 PM
The Northern Ireland team, thankfully, have never been a sectarian team - just ask Jennings, Taggart, O'Neill, Armstrong and numerous others who ave been proud to represent the country of their birth.

Neil Lennon?
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Rossfan on June 09, 2007, 03:42:24 PM
Anton Rogan ?
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: stew on June 09, 2007, 05:30:56 PM
Quote from: Tonto on June 09, 2007, 02:11:10 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2007, 01:34:28 PM
QuoteWhat sort of precedent would that set in other situations?

FIFA doesn't want to mess with contentious situations, in this case both governments would support the proposal, so there is no dispute, except perhaps from some who want their own sectarian football team.

The Northern Ireland team, thankfully, have never been a sectarian team - just ask Jennings, Taggart, O'Neill, Armstrong and numerous others who ave been proud to represent the country of their birth.

Ask Jennings if he is Irish or Northern Irish and see what sort of response you get tonto.

Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: SammyG on June 09, 2007, 05:46:15 PM
Quote from: Uladh on June 09, 2007, 03:24:37 PM
Quote from: Tonto on June 09, 2007, 02:11:10 PM
The Northern Ireland team, thankfully, have never been a sectarian team - just ask Jennings, Taggart, O'Neill, Armstrong and numerous others who ave been proud to represent the country of their birth.

Neil Lennon?

When did Neil Lennon ever have any problems with sectarianism?
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: armaghniac on June 09, 2007, 06:08:02 PM
QuoteBTW, "both governments" have f**k all to say about this because FIFA do not take kindly to political interferance.

My point was that no proposal was ever put to FIFA. What harm is there in asking them? While they don't like political interference, this would be a coming together of football people, not governments as such. Also FIFA are not exactly fans of places like NI that are neither countries not states having a team, this sets a worse precedent.

As to NI having a sectarian team, by that I meant that the entity it represented was sectarian, as that is why NI was established. This is not a comment directed at the team itself, although there have been a few problems there too.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: SammyG on June 09, 2007, 06:15:14 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2007, 06:08:02 PM
QuoteBTW, "both governments" have f**k all to say about this because FIFA do not take kindly to political interferance.

My point was that no proposal was ever put to FIFA. What harm is there in asking them? While they don't like political interference, this would be a coming together of football people, not governments as such. Also FIFA are not exactly fans of places like NI that are neither countries not states having a team, this sets a worse precedent.

You don't half talk some shite. FIFA/UEFA will not allow two separate countries to form one team, not now not ever. It would be the end of international football as we know it. What possible justification would there be for asking them to change their rules, especially as neither the FAI or IFA want it, the fans of the two teams don't want it (with the exception of a few nutters, most of whom have never been to a match) and I'd doubt if the players would want it as it would reduce their chances of getting a game.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: armaghniac on June 09, 2007, 06:29:17 PM

QuoteYou don't half talk some shite.

translation from Ulster Scots - you disagree with me


Quotewith the exception of a few nutters, most of whom have never been to a match)

et tu, Sammy, as a few posts earlier you said you'd welcome the FAI coming back into the IFA!
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Solomon Kane on June 09, 2007, 07:17:31 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2007, 06:08:02 PM
QuoteBTW, "both governments" have f**k all to say about this because FIFA do not take kindly to political interferance.

My point was that no proposal was ever put to FIFA. What harm is there in asking them? While they don't like political interference, this would be a coming together of football people, not governments as such. Also FIFA are not exactly fans of places like NI that are neither countries not states having a team, this sets a worse precedent.

As to NI having a sectarian team, by that I meant that the entity it represented was sectarian, as that is why NI was established. This is not a comment directed at the team itself, although there have been a few problems there too.


A fair enough argument, but not one I agree with. If the "entity" as put it is sectarian, does it not logically follow then that the Irish Republic is also sectarian?
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: armaghniac on June 09, 2007, 11:35:40 PM
QuoteIf the "entity" as put it is sectarian, does it not logically follow then that the Irish Republic is also sectarian?

No.

The IFA was established in the 19th century reflecting a geographic unit. Politics meant that Ireland became partitioned in the 1920's, this should be matter of regret for all Irish people. You can argue that it was necessary as other things would be lost from leaving the UK, or (as I would argue) unecessary, but it has  many disadvantages either way. I argue that whatever political differences exist, that it should not be necessary for sporting organisations, goldfish breeders, drama societies etc to organise them in a divided way.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: SammyG on June 10, 2007, 09:38:17 AM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2007, 11:35:40 PM
QuoteIf the "entity" as put it is sectarian, does it not logically follow then that the Irish Republic is also sectarian?

No.

The IFA was established in the 19th century reflecting a geographic unit. Politics meant that Ireland became partitioned in the 1920's, this should be matter of regret for all Irish people. You can argue that it was necessary as other things would be lost from leaving the UK, or (as I would argue) unecessary, but it has  many disadvantages either way. I argue that whatever political differences exist, that it should not be necessary for sporting organisations, goldfish breeders, drama societies etc to organise them in a divided way.

So by that logic there should only be one team called 'The World' as all other borders are just political entities and have no place in sporting organisations. Or have I missed something?
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Main Street on June 10, 2007, 01:41:14 PM
Quote from: SammyG on June 09, 2007, 06:15:14 PM
You don't half talk some shite. FIFA/UEFA will not allow two separate countries to form one team, not now not ever. It would be the end of international football as we know it. What possible justification would there be for asking them to change their rules, especially as neither the FAI or IFA want it, the fans of the two teams don't want it (with the exception of a few nutters, most of whom have never been to a match) and I'd doubt if the players would want it as it would reduce their chances of getting a game.

Sammy,  FIFA do not have any power. The football federation map in Europe has changed radically since the break up of the SU.
One exception to the fragmention was with 2 seperate countries, West and East Germany,
now one country, one football federation. Never say never, there is a context.
FIFA's role is to set the regulations and rubber stamp the claims of a federation for recognition.

NI doesn't quite cut the mustard to be called a country. It's maybee a bit more than an Isle of Man with a football federation.
I am quite happy with the Irish Constitution granting citizenship to all born on the Island and any young lad can declare for Ireland as many have done. The 2 federations can coexist and compete as in the Setanta.

Strangely enough with the Stormont Parliament dead as a dodo, the British walking backwards out of there, Shinners sharing power, are the loyalists any more fearful and paranoid now than during the 50 years of the Stormont Parliament ?
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Solomon Kane on June 10, 2007, 02:00:22 PM
Quote from: armaghniac on June 09, 2007, 11:35:40 PM
QuoteIf the "entity" as put it is sectarian, does it not logically follow then that the Irish Republic is also sectarian?

No.

The IFA was established in the 19th century reflecting a geographic unit. Politics meant that Ireland became partitioned in the 1920's, this should be matter of regret for all Irish people. You can argue that it was necessary as other things would be lost from leaving the UK, or (as I would argue) unecessary, but it has  many disadvantages either way. I argue that whatever political differences exist, that it should not be necessary for sporting organisations, goldfish breeders, drama societies etc to organise them in a divided way.


This Irish person does not for one second regret partition. There would still have been a civil war if the Irish Free State had 32 counties instead of 26, the only difference being it would have been along sectarian lines instead of pro/anti partition lines. It would have made the recent troubles look like a tiny skirmish. All parties at the time knew this, though few liked it, unionists included. It was as close to an honourable compromise as was possible. The use of the term political differences is pointless - the realility is that there is a political boundary, whether you like it or not and that is not going anywhere any time soon. SF have accepted this, all for getting a wee bit of Irish on letterheads in a few government departments and a few extra bob thrown at Irish language schools. Using their own previous logic they are now part of a Vichy administration.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: SammyG on June 10, 2007, 02:17:23 PM
Quote from: Main Street on June 10, 2007, 01:41:14 PM
Quote from: SammyG on June 09, 2007, 06:15:14 PM
You don't half talk some shite. FIFA/UEFA will not allow two separate countries to form one team, not now not ever. It would be the end of international football as we know it. What possible justification would there be for asking them to change their rules, especially as neither the FAI or IFA want it, the fans of the two teams don't want it (with the exception of a few nutters, most of whom have never been to a match) and I'd doubt if the players would want it as it would reduce their chances of getting a game.

Sammy,  FIFA do not have any power. The football federation map in Europe has changed radically since the break up of the SU.
One exception to the fragmention was with 2 seperate countries, West and East Germany,
now one country, one football federation. Never say never, there is a context.
FIFA's role is to set the regulations and rubber stamp the claims of a federation for recognition.

They are one country so one team, when they were two countries they had two teams. Which is exactly the point I was making.

Quote from: Main Street on June 10, 2007, 01:41:14 PM
NI doesn't quite cut the mustard to be called a country. It's maybee a bit more than an Isle of Man with a football federation.
I am quite happy with the Irish Constitution granting citizenship to all born on the Island and any young lad can declare for Ireland many have done.

Who are the many, I only know of a couple and none of those have actually played for the RoI.
Quote from: Main Street on June 10, 2007, 01:41:14 PM
2 federations can coexist and compete as in the Setanta.
Of course they can, what has that got to do with this discussion?

Quote from: Main Street on June 10, 2007, 01:41:14 PM
Strangely enough with the Stormont Parliament dead as a dodo, the British walking backwards out of there, Shinners sharing power, are the loyalists any more fearful and paranoid now than during the 50 years of the Stormont Parliament ?

I have absolutely no idea what that sentence means and I don't know any loyalists, so I've no idea what they're fearful of.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Fishead_Sam on June 10, 2007, 03:05:17 PM
T Fearon Whats your problem with the Irish Farmers Association?

Thats the only IFA around this part of the island & as far as I know they not sectarian, even though I think most of their members tend to be interested in the GAA.

Farmers having a soccer association is this like an Norn Iron thing  ;)
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Solomon Kane on June 10, 2007, 06:27:03 PM
Quote from: Fishead_Sam on June 10, 2007, 03:05:17 PM
T Fearon Whats your problem with the Irish Farmers Association?

Thats the only IFA around this part of the island & as far as I know they not sectarian, even though I think most of their members tend to be interested in the GAA.

Farmers having a soccer association is this like an Norn Iron thing  ;)


Personally I thought his other letter today was the funnier of the two. I wonder how the 0.5m nationalists in NI were "frogmarched" into the UK when they had in fact been living in the UK all along. To paraphrase Jimmy Rabbitt's da in the committments "Dr Eamon Pheonix must be shitting himself". :D :D
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Main Street on June 10, 2007, 09:29:37 PM
Quote from: SammyG on June 10, 2007, 02:17:23 PM
Who are the many, I only know of a couple and none of those have actually played for the RoI.
Well Sammy I did say DECLARED not played.
I suppose I used "many" to describe the selection of 4 declarees on a competitive underage squad, off hand there's O'Connor, Wilson, Gibson and Kane.
That would be over 20% of the squad. I assume that they would have been good enough to make the NI squad. Within a narrow context of competent young talent then 4 is many, there may be more I don't know.

QuoteOf course they can, what has that got to do with this discussion?

What's the point of that the two federations can co-exist and compete? Sammy have a refresh on the thread content. My point is that its a total non issue for the 2 federations uniting. If any talented young lad doesn't want to play for NI then it is his civil right to obtain an Irish passport and declare for Ireland.

Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: MW on June 11, 2007, 10:28:38 AM
Quote from: T Fearon on June 09, 2007, 10:03:58 AM
A couple of points.

Anyone who knows the history of Irish soccer  knows full well that the IFA induced the split by its parochialism and only selective inclusion of siouthern born players. Read Eoghan Corry's excellent book on the subject for the true story.

I've got Corry's book and even though it's slanted twoards a southern perspective, it says nothing of the sort.

The FAI broke away from the IFA  in 1921. The Irish Free State played its first full international in 1926.

What "selective inclusion of southern players" prompted this??

And also, call me crazy but if you're talking about the World Cup, it didn't start until 1930. And neither the Irish Free State nor (Norrthern) Ireland entered that tournament.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: SammyG on June 11, 2007, 11:13:53 AM
Quote from: Main Street on June 10, 2007, 09:29:37 PM
Quote from: SammyG on June 10, 2007, 02:17:23 PM
Who are the many, I only know of a couple and none of those have actually played for the RoI.
Well Sammy I did say DECLARED not played.
I suppose I used "many" to describe the selection of 4 declarees on a competitive underage squad, off hand there's O'Connor, Wilson, Gibson and Kane.
That would be over 20% of the squad. I assume that they would have been good enough to make the NI squad. Within a narrow context of competent young talent then 4 is many, there may be more I don't know.
Their elligibility or otherwise has not yet been decided. I have studied the FIFA/UEFA regulations inside out and backwards and I can not see any grounds on which they qualify for the RoI. I could declare for Brazil but it wouldn't make me elligible. The fact that the FAI haven't actually played any of them would suggest, that they are (at the very least) dubious about their elligibility.
Quote from: Main Street on June 10, 2007, 09:29:37 PM
What's the point of that the two federations can co-exist and compete? Sammy have a refresh on the thread content. My point is that its a total non issue for the 2 federations uniting. If any talented young lad doesn't want to play for NI then it is his civil right to obtain an Irish passport and declare for Ireland.

Firstly there's no such team as Ireland (as you already know) and secondly and much more importantly, elligibility for a passport has absoluely no baring on elligibility to play for a country's football team. You have to meet the relevant criteria, as laid down by FIFA, namely be born in the country, live in the country for 5 years or more or have a parent or grandparent from the country.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: nifan on June 11, 2007, 12:12:20 PM
My inderstaning is that Kane and Gibson moved in large part due to a falling out with some of the staff of the NI youth teams.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Swinging Fiona on June 11, 2007, 12:23:22 PM
It amuses me that many northern nationalists support a team that is partitionist.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Main Street on June 11, 2007, 12:45:12 PM
Quote from: SammyG on June 11, 2007, 11:13:53 AM
Their elligibility or otherwise has not yet been decided. I have studied the FIFA/UEFA regulations inside out and backwards and I can not see any grounds on which they qualify for the RoI. I could declare for Brazil but it wouldn't make me elligible. The fact that the FAI haven't actually played any of them would suggest, that they are (at the very least) dubious about their elligibility

Firstly there's no such team as Ireland (as you already know) and secondly and much more importantly, elligibility for a passport has absoluely no baring on elligibility to play for a country's football team. You have to meet the relevant criteria, as laid down by FIFA, namely be born in the country, live in the country for 5 years or more or have a parent or grandparent from the country
.

I see there are over 70 pages of a thread on the subject of defectors on the OWC website. Surely Sammy with that level of debate intensity you would have been aware that there were more that 2 declarees.
An Irish national born in another football juristiction is no impediment to playing for Ireland. If the young lad has been capped at youth level for NI, it is still no impediment but just the FIFA Players' Status Committee will have to rubberstamp the move.
The FIFA rules were tightened up to deal with the Oman's passport for sale to Brazilians.
The exception  is article 15.3
When a player has a choice, FIFA recognise the Youth's intrest first and allow for change until he is capped at A level and under 21 years of age.
I would not put any money on the IFA appeal no matter what the odds were.


QuoteFirstly there's no such team as Ireland
No offence meant, just we call it Ireland, passport says Ireland, Minister of Foreign Affairs says I'm a citizen of Ireland.
AFAIA ROI is a discriptive term which in some contexts is used officially to differentiate.

Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Evil Genius on June 11, 2007, 04:28:08 PM
You know, when Fearon originally declared his self-denying ordinance from slating anything and everything to do with soccer in NI, I was surprised he managed to hold off for so long.

However, not even I thought it possible that when he did return, we would see a "New Improved Fearon - now with 50% more Fatuousness", but by Christ, he's managed it.

To refresh our minds back to the original rant with which he opened this thread, Fearon posted the following:

"Noted the inception of this programme [Football Without Frontiers] yesterday, encouraging foreign nationals to get involved with soccer.

Though the title was more than a tad ironic, given that the IFA has erected fronntiers in soccer on this island, by causing the original split, and point blankly refusing to countenance any debate about one ireland soccer side,league etc"


There is only one ironic aspect to all this. In his rush to spew out his usual bile about the IFA "erecting frontiers" etc, he overlooked the fact that the IFA was actually hosting what is a combined initiative by a number of sporting bodies from all around these islands, including Sport Against Racism Ireland"*, based in Dublin, and "Show Racism the Red Card", a body which covers the whole of the UK and Ireland!

( http://www.irishfa.com/the-ifa/news/3140/football-without-frontiers )
FOOTBALL WITHOUT FRONTIERS
11/06/2007
The Irish Football Association's Community Relations Department has taken a lead role in the formation of a new UK and Ireland wide super group called Football Without Frontiers.

New UK and Ireland Wide Super Group Formed to Tackle Both Racism and Sectarianism in Football

This new group brings together expert knowledge from the following established groups:

Kickitout (London)
Football Unites Racism Divides (FURD) (Sheffield)
Sport Against Racism Ireland (SARI) (Dublin)
Show Racism The Red Card (SRTRC) (UK and Ireland)
Football For All (Scotland)
The Northern Ireland Community Relations Council (CRC – NI)
The Institute for Conflict Research (ICR) (Belfast )
The Irish Football Association's Football For All Community Relations Department (IFA) (NI)
With support from Alliance MLA, Anna Lo, this new group of Community Relations experts who work in football had their inaugural meeting at Parliament Buildings, Stormont, on Wednesday 6th June.

IFA Head of Community Relations, Michael Boyd, summarised the progress the group made in Belfast:

"This is the beginning of something special. Each individual group represented has made a valuable contribution to the sport of football over the last ten years making the sport more inclusive. Established groups like Kickitout, FURD, SARI and SRTRC have led the way in Europe, the UK and Ireland challenging racism and sectarianism in football. This new Football Without Frontiers super group brings this wealth of knowledge together so we can share learning and make more of a strategic impact in the future. We are delighted the first meeting was in Belfast and it has been an honour to help start this group up. We hope this partnership work will help us in Northern Ireland to build on the progress we have made at international level eradicating sectarianism and support development of a more inclusive, fun, safe and family orientated culture in the Irish League".



It's quite clear that when it comes to making a public p***k of himself, it is Fearon who knows no frontiers....


* - For those readers who may not be familiar with SARI, the Director is Brian Kerr, former manager of the ROI soccer team, and a valued guest of the IFA in Belfast.
Title: Re: IFA's Football without Frontiers initiative
Post by: Billys Boots on June 11, 2007, 04:42:06 PM
QuoteNew UK and Ireland Wide Super Group Formed

I guess that means The Travelling Wilburys will shelve their 'best-of' project.   :P