I'm starting this thread as it has always baffled me why anyone would like the game of Rugby. Yes, I know, each to their own and all that. But seriously, what's the attraction?
I'm a Gaelic football man. Great to play, great to watch. Now, I know alot has been said about the recent negative tactics, and the game has suffered as a spectacle. Maybe it has. Maybe it hasn't. But, you have great catches, great scores, skill, block-downs, keepers plucking the ball out of the top corner, a lung-bursting solo run, scores from narrow angles, the outside of the boot. You get the idea...
Hurlings a great game too: fantastic speed, skill, guts, passion, scores, sideline cuts, great stick-work etc etc. Even soccer has it's moments. Great goals, skill, passes, saves etc.
Now, Rugby... erm, nope, I can't think of anything good or interesting about it. It lacks any fluidity, too stop/start, throwing the ball (who thought that one up?). I don't get it. I really don't. They look like a bunch of rutting stags during the season, charging into each other, throwing a ball backwards to go forwards. A set of goalposts but you can score in the corner. Seriously, if an Irishman had invented the game, he'd have been considered a loon.
It seems reasonably popular in this country. A dozen or two people seem to like it. Personally, I'd draw the curtains if there was a match playing outside.
So, can some people please tell me their own reasons for liking the game, because frankly I'm bemused.
Tosser WUM.
Please end this thread before it gets off the ground
QuoteI'm a Gaelic football man. Great to play, great to watch.
Try Tyrone Div 3 Reserve
Quote from: BennyCake on October 11, 2012, 12:24:09 AM
I'm starting this thread as it has always baffled me why anyone would like the game of Rugby. Yes, I know, each to their own and all that. But seriously, what's the attraction?
I'm a Gaelic football man. Great to play, great to watch. Now, I know alot has been said about the recent negative tactics, and the game has suffered as a spectacle. Maybe it has. Maybe it hasn't. But, you have great catches, great scores, skill, block-downs, keepers plucking the ball out of the top corner, a lung-bursting solo run, scores from narrow angles, the outside of the boot. You get the idea...
Hurlings a great game too: fantastic speed, skill, guts, passion, scores, sideline cuts, great stick-work etc etc. Even soccer has it's moments. Great goals, skill, passes, saves etc.
Now, Rugby... erm, nope, I can't think of anything good or interesting about it. It lacks any fluidity, too stop/start, throwing the ball (who thought that one up?). I don't get it. I really don't. They look like a bunch of rutting stags during the season, charging into each other, throwing a ball backwards to go forwards. A set of goalposts but you can score in the corner. Seriously, if an Irishman had invented the game, he'd have been considered a loon.
It seems reasonably popular in this country. A dozen or two people seem to like it. Personally, I'd draw the curtains if there was a match playing outside.
So, can some people please tell me their own reasons for liking the game, because frankly I'm bemused.
In your opinion.
Quote from: Windmill abu on October 11, 2012, 12:50:29 AM
t**ser WUM.
Please end this thread before it gets off the ground
QuoteI'm a Gaelic football man. Great to play, great to watch.
Try Tyrone Div 3 Reserve
I'm not winding anyone up. I'm interested in the thinking of the rugby fraternity on here. If that's not you, then fine. But, don't comment.
Go easy lads, it's a legitimate question.
I'm not an expert on rugby but here's what I take away from it. As with all sports there's the uncertainty of what's going to happen next and which option the players are going to go for. In Gaelic games it's generally a choice between a high-risk but more rewarding shot at a goal, or a lower risk but lower rewarding shot at a point.
In rugby you have the option of advancing the ball up the field by passing (where you make slower progress but have a better chance of keeping possession) or kicking into touch (where you make faster progress but run the risk of losing possession at the line-out or whatever you call that jumpy-uppy thing). There's also the more difficult but higher scoring option of the try, or the lower risk but lower rewarding drop-goal.
The start-stopping can be a bit irritating if you don't know what's going on, but as with all sports once you have a decent grasp of the rules then it all makes sense and it's not so bad. American football is heavily interrupted, but since learning the basics (you get 4 attempts to make 10 yards) I quite enjoy watching the odd game if a local team is playing and I have a side to root for.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 11, 2012, 12:24:09 AM
I'm starting this thread as it has always baffled me why anyone would like the game of Rugby. Yes, I know, each to their own and all that. But seriously, what's the attraction?
I'm a Gaelic football man. Great to play, great to watch. Now, I know alot has been said about the recent negative tactics, and the game has suffered as a spectacle. Maybe it has. Maybe it hasn't. But, you have great catches, great scores, skill, block-downs, keepers plucking the ball out of the top corner, a lung-bursting solo run, scores from narrow angles, the outside of the boot. You get the idea...
Hurlings a great game too: fantastic speed, skill, guts, passion, scores, sideline cuts, great stick-work etc etc. Even soccer has it's moments. Great goals, skill, passes, saves etc.
Now, Rugby... erm, nope, I can't think of anything good or interesting about it. It lacks any fluidity, too stop/start, throwing the ball (who thought that one up?). I don't get it. I really don't. They look like a bunch of rutting stags during the season, charging into each other, throwing a ball backwards to go forwards. A set of goalposts but you can score in the corner. Seriously, if an Irishman had invented the game, he'd have been considered a loon.
It seems reasonably popular in this country. A dozen or two people seem to like it. Personally, I'd draw the curtains if there was a match playing outside.
So, can some people please tell me their own reasons for liking the game, because frankly I'm bemused.
This week sees the the start of rugby's Heineken Cup competition, which will be watched on tv by millions of people in many different countries around the world. Gaelic football remains largely unloved beyond these shores, except by little pockets of Irish ex pats. Go figure.
Like any sport, it's the competitiveness that attracts me.
The massive hits all over the field, the hand skills such as the unexpected off load in a tackle.
At the top level the tactics are compelling!
Quote from: BennyCake on October 11, 2012, 12:24:09 AM
I'm starting this thread as it has always baffled me why anyone would like the game of Rugby. Yes, I know, each to their own and all that. But seriously, what's the attraction?
I'm a Gaelic football man. Great to play, great to watch. Now, I know alot has been said about the recent negative tactics, and the game has suffered as a spectacle. Maybe it has. Maybe it hasn't. But, you have great catches, great scores, skill, block-downs, keepers plucking the ball out of the top corner, a lung-bursting solo run, scores from narrow angles, the outside of the boot. You get the idea...
Hurlings a great game too: fantastic speed, skill, guts, passion, scores, sideline cuts, great stick-work etc etc. Even soccer has it's moments. Great goals, skill, passes, saves etc.
Now, Rugby... erm, nope, I can't think of anything good or interesting about it. It lacks any fluidity, too stop/start, throwing the ball (who thought that one up?). I don't get it. I really don't. They look like a bunch of rutting stags during the season, charging into each other, throwing a ball backwards to go forwards. A set of goalposts but you can score in the corner. Seriously, if an Irishman had invented the game, he'd have been considered a loon.
It seems reasonably popular in this country. A dozen or two people seem to like it. Personally, I'd draw the curtains if there was a match playing outside.
So, can some people please tell me their own reasons for liking the game, because frankly I'm bemused.
As someone with minimal interest in GAA, I would add that Gaelic Football is not without its faults. Never really understood how you tackle - Lots of slapping at the player with, from my non-trained eye, not much consistency from the officials as to what constitues a foul.
Rugby suffers from an odd paradox in that what makes it such a brilliant game - its rules - also provides a barrier to entry due to complexity.
To the unknowing, something as simple as out on the full would appear unnecessarily complex and unnatural. But after watching the game a whole you realise that the rules have been designed to reward skill and endeavour. Compare and contrast with soccer, where cheating is routinely rewarded.
I love the game.
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on October 11, 2012, 08:06:32 AM
Like any sport, it's the competitiveness that attracts me.
The massive hits all over the field, the hand skills such as the unexpected off load in a tackle.
At the top level the tactics are compelling!
That's it. Add in the level of international competition, a tribal contest that has an only slightly broken lineage dating back to the late 19th century, and you've got something special.
BennyCake, have you ever been to a rugby match? Even a middling All-Ireland league match has something to commend it because television rarely captures the intensity of a good tackle - or even a bad tackle. I've never had the opportunity to play rugby but it looks like great craic altogether.
A bad game of rugby is the worst spectacle of them all (and that's after watching the Junior B county final last Sunday ;).)
Quote from: Declan on October 11, 2012, 09:10:17 AM
A bad game of rugby is the worst spectacle of them all (and that's after watching the Junior B county final last Sunday ;).)
I used think the worst hurling game was better than the best game of any other sport. Last year's county hurling final put the last nail in that particular coffin.
On the rules, there's something I don't understand about rugby. From a penalty, the attacking team can kick for touch - sometimes as a result the attacking team have the ball at the line out and sometimes the defending team do - I'm assuming the difference is the distance travelled/which side of the line the ball lands but am not too sure of the exact rule. Can anyone help?
Quote from: take_yer_points on October 11, 2012, 09:21:03 AM
On the rules, there's something I don't understand about rugby. From a penalty, the attacking team can kick for touch - sometimes as a result the attacking team have the ball at the line out and sometimes the defending team do - I'm assuming the difference is the distance travelled/which side of the line the ball lands but am not too sure of the exact rule. Can anyone help?
The attacking team
always does.
Great sport rugby. Great to play - great to watch.
Pedant alert! They're called laws not rules.
Quote from: take_yer_points on October 11, 2012, 09:21:03 AM
On the rules, there's something I don't understand about rugby. From a penalty, the attacking team can kick for touch - sometimes as a result the attacking team have the ball at the line out and sometimes the defending team do - I'm assuming the difference is the distance travelled/which side of the line the ball lands but am not too sure of the exact rule. Can anyone help?
From a penalty, the attacking team always gets the lineout - it used be the case that the defending team got the lineout but they changed the rule sometime in the 1990's. From open play, the defending team gets the lineout. If the attempt at finding touch from open play came from outside the 22 or the player crossed back into the 22 before taking the kick, it must bounce before going into touch or the lineout will be on the defending 22. Byzantine? I should cocoa!
Quote from: take_yer_points on October 11, 2012, 09:21:03 AM
On the rules, there's something I don't understand about rugby. From a penalty, the attacking team can kick for touch - sometimes as a result the attacking team have the ball at the line out and sometimes the defending team do - I'm assuming the difference is the distance travelled/which side of the line the ball lands but am not too sure of the exact rule. Can anyone help?
A strange law alright!!!
When a team wins a penalty and they kick the ball to touch they will get the throw.
If there is a free kick (either for a ball caught clean in the 22 or if the referee decides a team has engaged to early in the scrum) the team taking it can kick to touch but they will not get the throw!! (If outside the 22 the ball must bounce before going to touch though)
Cheers lads - that explains it
I hate everything about rugby. I don't find it good to watch mainly but also I know you get pricks at every sporting event but I found the level of prickness was much higher at rugby games after going to a few games a few years ago.
I go to all the Republic of Ireland soccer games and while I admit there are some awful gobshites in the crowd at these games I think I'd prefer to have Anto from Ballymun sitting behind me than Oisin from Blackrock.
And don't get me started on that awful piece of crap Ireland's Call ::)
Laoislad, all you're telling me there is you see rugby as a middle class game and you don't like the middle class. So rugby never stands a chance with you.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 11, 2012, 12:24:09 AM
I'm starting this thread as it has always baffled me why anyone would like the game of Rugby. Yes, I know, each to their own and all that. But seriously, what's the attraction?
I'm a Gaelic football man. Great to play, great to watch. Now, I know alot has been said about the recent negative tactics, and the game has suffered as a spectacle. Maybe it has. Maybe it hasn't. But, you have great catches, great scores, skill, block-downs, keepers plucking the ball out of the top corner, a lung-bursting solo run, scores from narrow angles, the outside of the boot. You get the idea...
Hurlings a great game too: fantastic speed, skill, guts, passion, scores, sideline cuts, great stick-work etc etc. Even soccer has it's moments. Great goals, skill, passes, saves etc.
Now, Rugby... erm, nope, I can't think of anything good or interesting about it. It lacks any fluidity, too stop/start, throwing the ball (who thought that one up?). I don't get it. I really don't. They look like a bunch of rutting stags during the season, charging into each other, throwing a ball backwards to go forwards. A set of goalposts but you can score in the corner. Seriously, if an Irishman had invented the game, he'd have been considered a loon.
It seems reasonably popular in this country. A dozen or two people seem to like it. Personally, I'd draw the curtains if there was a match playing outside.
So, can some people please tell me their own reasons for liking the game, because frankly I'm bemused.
If you watched Leinster last season , you wouldn't say they lacked any fluid play. Or any game involving the All Blacks. Ulster this season are playing good Rugby, lots of good young players.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 11, 2012, 10:31:08 AM
Laoislad, all you're telling me there is you see rugby as a middle class game and you don't like the middle class. So rugby never stands a chance with you.
I really just don't like rugby as a spectacle which I said also.
I have nothing against any class of people either.
I just found in my experience the knob you can find at a rugby match was worse than the knob you can find at a soccer match.
My auld lad and brother are huge rugby fans and regularly attend games, it's not like I think everyone who goes is a knob.
I do think Ireland's Call is a dreadful piece of shite though.
I think if you don't understand rugby it's impossible to appreciate it. Even when you understand it, the decisions of the referees can seem at times to be a case of "I'm going to ignore all the rule law breaking going on until I feel like it then blow the whistle".
Rugby - I've been to see Ireland 2 or 3 times.
Soccer - I've been to see Ireland about 4 or 5 times.
The rugby crowd is easily more affable than the Soccer crowd.
At the last Ireland v Brazil game in Croker a group of young fella's (rote!) proceeded to beat the head of some random fella about 10 seats in front of us, before they were put out.
At the Ireland Cyprus game, poor ol Stevie Staunton got tirades of abuse the whole match, but the real clincher for me was when Ireland (I thing robbie Keane) scored the equalizing goal the HOME "Support" booed!!
I know where i'd rather be sitting alongside!
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on October 11, 2012, 10:55:48 AM
Rugby - I've been to see Ireland 2 or 3 times.
Soccer - I've been to see Ireland about 4 or 5 times.
The rugby crowd is easily more affable than the Soccer crowd.
At the last Ireland v Brazil game in Croker a group of young fella's (rote!) proceeded to beat the head of some random fella about 10 seats in front of us, before they were put out.
At the Ireland Cyprus game, poor ol Stevie Staunton got tirades of abuse the whole match, but the real clincher for me was when Ireland (I thing robbie Keane) scored the equalizing goal the HOME "Support" booed!!
I know where i'd rather be sitting alongside!
Meh I've seen worse on Hill 16 at Dublin games.
I've never heard anyone booing someone for scoring for Ireland btw.
I cant think of any other sport where sportmanship is so good.
Quote from: oisinog on October 11, 2012, 11:00:04 AM
I cant think of any other sport where sportmanship is so good.
Golf.
Players call fouls on themselves ffs.
Quote from: laoislad on October 11, 2012, 11:00:36 AM
Quote from: oisinog on October 11, 2012, 11:00:04 AM
I cant think of any other sport where sportmanship is so good.
Golf.
Players call fouls on themselves ffs.
I think as in team sports, There is a great respect between the players and the referee in Rugby. None of the shite you see in soccer and GAA.
Is it right that people dislike a sport because of the class of people that play it?
I know of people who don't like the GAA because they see it as a bastion of culchiedom and muck savagery.
I played the game and I love it.
I know many people can't follow what's going on as it's primarily a player's sport and the laws can be bit arcane but as an antidote to stress it's hard to beat.
What other sport can accommodate the likes of Peter Stringer, Bull Hayes and Tommy Bowe and last but not least, Paul O'Connell?
As Mark Twain once put it, "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog."
He could well have been thinking of rugby at the time.
Quote from: Goats Do Shave on October 11, 2012, 10:55:48 AM
At the Ireland Cyprus game, poor ol Stevie Staunton got tirades of abuse the whole match, but the real clincher for me was when Ireland (I thing robbie Keane) scored the equalizing goal the HOME "Support" booed!!
It was Steve Finnan (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/7049990.stm). There were a lot of jeers when it went in but even Steve Staunton accepted they had a point (http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/7049990.stm).
I'm going to have to agree with Laoislad here, tried my best to get into rugby...went to see Ireland V France, Heineken cup final last year, Thomand and even up in Ravenhill once but can't seem to warm to the game at all. Huge respect for the players involved because skill and conditioning levels are great but the game itself...fairly meh. Just as stop start as american football (which i enjoy more) imo.
Quote from: Ash Smoker on October 11, 2012, 11:06:49 AM
Is it right that people dislike a sport because of the class of people that play it?
I know of people who don't like the GAA because they see it as a bastion of culchiedom and muck savagery.
Each to their own i suppose. I like most Sports, A lot of Rugby players played Gaa when they were younger. Rob Keareny played with Louth Minors, Shane Horgan played with Meath Minors. John Hayes is a Farmer now, so he is use to muck savagery ha.
I have actually watched and enjoyed the other form of Rugby, Rugby League.
Wouldn't be a huge fan or anything but I went to several games while in Australia and it is certainly more entertaining to watch than Rugby union IMO.
Laois Lad - have to agree. I watched the Super Cup final there at the weekend and the athletisism, strength and fitness of those lads is unreal. I like rugby union too but would really only watch international RU.
Its like everything, people have different tastes - choice of pint, choice of women (or man), choice of food, choice of religion, choice of hobby, choice of sport, choice of team. Its never ending.
While its a credible debate on the merits and attractions of rugby, its not going to change ones views on it.
I would say though that rugby is the most bandwagon sport in Ireland with the 6 nations possibly been the only time that people will view the sport in a large part of the country. This is probably changing in recent years with the heineken cup and Magners league (or whatever its called).
But i would imagine that the club participation levels pro rata to the viewing figures for the six nations is very low. Many people's team are one of the provinces or the national team itself. I could be wrong.
Quote from: Bingo on October 11, 2012, 11:41:17 AM
Its like everything, people have different tastes - choice of pint, choice of women (or man), choice of food, choice of religion, choice of hobby, choice of sport, choice of team. Its never ending.
While its a credible debate on the merits and attractions of rugby, its not going to change ones views on it.
I would say though that rugby is the most bandwagon sport in Ireland with the 6 nations possibly been the only time that people will view the sport in a large part of the country. This is probably changing in recent years with the heineken cup and Magners league (or whatever its called).
But i would imagine that the club participation levels pro rata to the viewing figures for the six nations is very low. Many people's team are one of the provinces or the national team itself. I could be wrong.
It would be province for most people, unless you lived in a strong Rugby playing area. I'm from Cavan and there is only 2 Rugby teams in the County, Virginia and Cavan Rugby Club. They are both a long way off AIL League standard. Gaelic Football is the main sport in Cavan, under age soccer is very big at the minute and gettting bigger year by year. It is alot bigger than Hurling was or ever will be in Cavan.
The Magners league is called the PRO 12 now.
I like rugby, the rules have always adapted over the years to compensate for changes in tactics or play. Soccer and GAA haven't, getting a rule change is like putting a man on the moon in those sports.
As an example how many top level rugby games are decided simply by a referees mistake? How many end in hollers of abuse where he has to be escorted of the field or threatened?
I can only think of two such examples, Munster several years ago in the Heineken Cup and NZ v France in 2007, even then the action the referee missed was minimal at best.
Soccer has a shite result every week and Fifa sit on their f**king hands for the last 50 years. Cheating/ fouling the ref is rewarded and not punishable after the fact. No hawk-eye no tv replay nothing at all to decide on borderline decision which in soccer (due to the low scoring) are worth more than any sport.
Same in GAA, cynicism is routinely rewarded and without it teams get nowhere. Worst still it is openly applauded, look at Donegal/ Dublin/ Armagh/ Tyrone, they got nowhere playing the old game and had to incorporate cynicism into their game to succeed.
Now rugby is not free from cynicism or professional fouls but they have created strategies to tackle it. Yellow card, red card, sin bin, penalty try, free kick, scrum down, advantage all ways to differentiate between professional fouls and simple mistakes. In Gaa if a defender double hops the ball our gets caught in possession on his 21 yard line its is punished the same way as a player straight through on goal being cynically brought down by the last defender. Happens routinely, happened last Sunday in the Tyrone county final. And don't tell me he gets a yellow card, how many times have you seen a lad get sent off following an action like this, as his first or second yellow card? It's either so late in the match that its unlikely to see him get carded again or else he's pulled ashore for another fella to come on and start systematically fouling.
Rugby's not perfect but at least they actively try to tackle faults in the game (with the exception of the scrum).
Quote from: trileacman on October 11, 2012, 12:15:12 PM
As an example how many top level rugby games are decided simply by a referees mistake? How many end in hollers of abuse where he has to be escorted of the field or threatened?
I can only think of two such examples, Munster several years ago in the Heineken Cup and NZ v France in 2007, even then the action the referee missed was minimal at best.
I would suggest that rugby doesn't appear as prone to refereeing mistakes as Gaelic games or soccer because games are rarely level going down the stretch. It feels more devastating when the match turns on a refereeing decision in those circumstances. But when you consider the abuse Alain Rolland got for making the right decision in the Wales-France semi-final last year, this idea that rugby is free of referees deciding matches is fanciful.
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 11, 2012, 11:56:40 AM
Quote from: Bingo on October 11, 2012, 11:41:17 AM
Its like everything, people have different tastes - choice of pint, choice of women (or man), choice of food, choice of religion, choice of hobby, choice of sport, choice of team. Its never ending.
While its a credible debate on the merits and attractions of rugby, its not going to change ones views on it.
I would say though that rugby is the most bandwagon sport in Ireland with the 6 nations possibly been the only time that people will view the sport in a large part of the country. This is probably changing in recent years with the heineken cup and Magners league (or whatever its called).
But i would imagine that the club participation levels pro rata to the viewing figures for the six nations is very low. Many people's team are one of the provinces or the national team itself. I could be wrong.
It would be province for most people, unless you lived in a strong Rugby playing area. I'm from Cavan and there is only 2 Rugby teams in the County, Virginia and Cavan Rugby Club. They are both a long way off AIL League standard. Gaelic Football is the main sport in Cavan, under age soccer is very big at the minute and gettting bigger year by year. It is alot bigger than Hurling was or ever will be in Cavan.
The Magners league is called the PRO 12 now.
If ye will let yer best hurlers move to Kildare! ;)
For me rugby is about club and country, I coach three teams including a Leinster under-age development team but I rarely go watch Leinster play and am very apathetic these towards the Leinster professional team. In fact the way in which professional rugby has grown in the sense of crowd attendance, marketing and TV coverage absolutely amazes me, it really bought into our sense of tribalness (is that a word). I have always supported my country, first game was the Millennium game against England in 1988, Chris Oti scored a hat-trick for England. There is no bandwagon for the national team, those were dark days for Irish rugby but yet Lansdowne Road was always a sell-out and you could only get tickets through your club.
The bandwagon is around the Provinces, Munster been the worst of any sport in Ireland in living memory (The Brave and Faithful et al) although Leinster these days aren't far behind, still amuses me that so many "passionate" Leinster fans have never been to a club game.
Rugby clubs have the exact same problem as many GAA clubs - emigration, lack of funding, competition from other clubs/sports, lack of volunteers etc etc.
On the development team I coach at least half play GAA, some of these are on Inter-County development squads, Kildare, Meath and Laois. They are now at a stage in both codes where they have to make a choice as the demands mean they need to focus on one sport or be left behind, most of these kids are only 15 years of age, tough decision for young minds. Rugby though in general is not a threat to GAA - there are more less the same number of GAA clubs in Kildare as rugby clubs in Leinster and there is more GAA clubs in Cork that there are rugby clubs in the whole island.
Unfortunately there is a stigma attached to certain rugby supporters, a cliche becomes a cliche because their is an element of truth. Within rugby circles there is still a certain snobbery element, typified by the question "What school did you go to?" - it still exists not as common as say 20 years ago and Leinster rugby and Irish have generally lost this kind of supporter, these days you find them only at a Leinster Schools Cup games.
My own favourite team sports to watch are Football, rugby union, soccer, rugby league and hurling. Apart from boxing find individual sports boring to watch but ok to play.
Nice post, Dinny. Good to hear an account from the coal face of rugby.
Quote from: LeoMc on October 11, 2012, 12:25:58 PM
Quote from: rodney trotter on October 11, 2012, 11:56:40 AM
Quote from: Bingo on October 11, 2012, 11:41:17 AM
Its like everything, people have different tastes - choice of pint, choice of women (or man), choice of food, choice of religion, choice of hobby, choice of sport, choice of team. Its never ending.
While its a credible debate on the merits and attractions of rugby, its not going to change ones views on it.
I would say though that rugby is the most bandwagon sport in Ireland with the 6 nations possibly been the only time that people will view the sport in a large part of the country. This is probably changing in recent years with the heineken cup and Magners league (or whatever its called).
But i would imagine that the club participation levels pro rata to the viewing figures for the six nations is very low. Many people's team are one of the provinces or the national team itself. I could be wrong.
It would be province for most people, unless you lived in a strong Rugby playing area. I'm from Cavan and there is only 2 Rugby teams in the County, Virginia and Cavan Rugby Club. They are both a long way off AIL League standard. Gaelic Football is the main sport in Cavan, under age soccer is very big at the minute and gettting bigger year by year. It is alot bigger than Hurling was or ever will be in Cavan.
The Magners league is called the PRO 12 now.
If ye will let yer best hurlers move to Kildare! ;)
Ha, he had to show his Hurling talents somewhere else. Cavan haven't had a Senior Hurling team in the league or Championships in past 2 years.
Quote from: deiseach on October 11, 2012, 12:23:32 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 11, 2012, 12:15:12 PM
As an example how many top level rugby games are decided simply by a referees mistake? How many end in hollers of abuse where he has to be escorted of the field or threatened?
I can only think of two such examples, Munster several years ago in the Heineken Cup and NZ v France in 2007, even then the action the referee missed was minimal at best.
I would suggest that rugby doesn't appear as prone to refereeing mistakes as Gaelic games or soccer because games are rarely level going down the stretch. It feels more devastating when the match turns on a refereeing decision in those circumstances. But when you consider the abuse Alain Rolland got for making the right decision in the Wales-France semi-final last year, this idea that rugby is free of referees deciding matches is fanciful.
Agreed. And it's not limited to questions of competence. Look at the World Cup Final. No way were France ever going to get a scorable penalty in the second half.
I disagree with trileacman that rugby is a shining light in sports administration and rule making. There are plenty examples of shortcomings in laws and practices - the scrum, discriminatory administration at the World Cup, inconsistency between regions in application/interpretation of the laws are some that come to mind.
But while holding rugby forth as a paragon doesn't stand up to scrutiny, I agree that we could learn some things from rugby administration and law-making as well. The respect for referees is probably the biggest one. It doesn't happen by accident or because the players are nice middle-class chaps. It happens because it's in the rules and enforced. As trileacman says as well, they are probably that bit better than us in ability to identify and willingness to tackle flaws in the laws that promote undesirable aspects of the game, such as the "professional" foul, with meaningful sanctions and we could learn frrom that.
Quote from: Hardy on October 11, 2012, 12:38:31 PM
But while holding rugby forth as a paragon doesn't stand up to scrutiny, I agree that we could learn some things from rugby administration and law-making as well. The respect for referees is probably the biggest one. It doesn't happen by accident or because the players are nice middle-class chaps. It happens because it's in the rules and enforced. As trileacman says as well, they are probably that bit better than us in ability to identify and willingness to tackle flaws in the laws that promote undesirable aspects of the game, such as the "professional" foul, with meaningful sanctions and we could learn frrom that.
Good point. It ultimately comes from having ethics. When people invoke rugby and golf as examples of sports where fair play is much in evidence, you can almost smell the snobbery at times. What about snooker though? A sport with a more rough-and-ready clientele you won't find, yet players routinely call fouls on themselves because, well, it's the done thing.
Hardy, would you not agree that the reason that rugby have got the referee issue right is because it's a very 'new' sport in terms of mass participation - imagine trying to effect the same change in gaelic football, hurling or soccer now; it might have been possible 80 years ago (which, in my view, would be the equivalent to rugby's initiative), but it would be nigh on impossible nowadays.
Quote from: deiseach on October 11, 2012, 12:48:52 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 11, 2012, 12:38:31 PM
But while holding rugby forth as a paragon doesn't stand up to scrutiny, I agree that we could learn some things from rugby administration and law-making as well. The respect for referees is probably the biggest one. It doesn't happen by accident or because the players are nice middle-class chaps. It happens because it's in the rules and enforced. As trileacman says as well, they are probably that bit better than us in ability to identify and willingness to tackle flaws in the laws that promote undesirable aspects of the game, such as the "professional" foul, with meaningful sanctions and we could learn frrom that.
Good point. It ultimately comes from having ethics. When people invoke rugby and golf as examples of sports where fair play is much in evidence, you can almost smell the snobbery at times. What about snooker though? A sport with a more rough-and-ready clientele you won't find, yet players routinely call fouls on themselves because, well, it's the done thing.
Is snooker a sport? Likewise with Darts?
Would consider both to be glorified pub games.
Quote from: Jonah on October 11, 2012, 12:55:21 PM
Is snooker a sport? Likewise with Darts?
Would consider both to be glorified pub games.
It has rules/laws, participants and referees so it shares that much with other rugby, soccer and Gaelic games. Feel free to start a thread on whether it's a sport.
Quote from: deiseach on October 11, 2012, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: Jonah on October 11, 2012, 12:55:21 PM
Is snooker a sport? Likewise with Darts?
Would consider both to be glorified pub games.
It has rules/laws, participants and referees so it shares that much with other rugby, soccer and Gaelic games. Feel free to start a thread on whether it's a sport.
I think your point has been proved about snobbery.
Quote from: deiseach on October 11, 2012, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: Jonah on October 11, 2012, 12:55:21 PM
Is snooker a sport? Likewise with Darts?
Would consider both to be glorified pub games.
It has rules/laws, participants and referees so it shares that much with other rugby, soccer and Gaelic games. Feel free to start a thread on whether it's a sport.
So does Professional Poker.
I don't consider that a sport either, it's just another glorified pub game.
Quote from: Billys Boots on October 11, 2012, 01:03:30 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 11, 2012, 12:58:02 PM
Quote from: Jonah on October 11, 2012, 12:55:21 PM
Is snooker a sport? Likewise with Darts?
Would consider both to be glorified pub games.
It has rules/laws, participants and referees so it shares that much with other rugby, soccer and Gaelic games. Feel free to start a thread on whether it's a sport.
I think your point has been proved about snobbery.
Thank you for saving me from any more communication with the troll.
Quote from: Billys Boots on October 11, 2012, 12:51:05 PM
Hardy, would you not agree that the reason that rugby have got the referee issue right is because it's a very 'new' sport in terms of mass participation - imagine trying to effect the same change in gaelic football, hurling or soccer now; it might have been possible 80 years ago (which, in my view, would be the equivalent to rugby's initiative), but it would be nigh on impossible nowadays.
This is a truly bizarre post.
I'd guess there were more people playing rugby in London 80 years ago than are playing hurling now.
It's very easy to stamp out cheating and stamp out hounding of referees: punish the offenders. But it's not a culture that exists in soccer, and football is following suit.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 11, 2012, 01:13:25 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on October 11, 2012, 12:51:05 PM
Hardy, would you not agree that the reason that rugby have got the referee issue right is because it's a very 'new' sport in terms of mass participation - imagine trying to effect the same change in gaelic football, hurling or soccer now; it might have been possible 80 years ago (which, in my view, would be the equivalent to rugby's initiative), but it would be nigh on impossible nowadays.
This is a truly bizarre post.
I'd guess there were more people playing rugby in London 80 years ago than are playing hurling now.
It's very easy to stamp out cheating and stamp out hounding of referees: punish the offenders. But it's not a culture that exists in soccer, and football is following suit.
I think the point might be that rugby had a 'year zero' when the game went open. The introduction of sin bins was a relatively minor innovation when set against the earthquake that was professionalism.
Aye Rugby & American Football - both nonsense sports imo.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 11, 2012, 12:27:57 PM
For me rugby is about club and country, I coach three teams including a Leinster under-age development team but I rarely go watch Leinster play and am very apathetic these towards the Leinster professional team. In fact the way in which professional rugby has grown in the sense of crowd attendance, marketing and TV coverage absolutely amazes me, it really bought into our sense of tribalness (is that a word). I have always supported my country, first game was the Millennium game against England in 1988, Chris Oti scored a hat-trick for England. There is no bandwagon for the national team, those were dark days for Irish rugby but yet Lansdowne Road was always a sell-out and you could only get tickets through your club.
The bandwagon is around the Provinces, Munster been the worst of any sport in Ireland in living memory (The Brave and Faithful et al) although Leinster these days aren't far behind, still amuses me that so many "passionate" Leinster fans have never been to a club game.
Rugby clubs have the exact same problem as many GAA clubs - emigration, lack of funding, competition from other clubs/sports, lack of volunteers etc etc.
On the development team I coach at least half play GAA, some of these are on Inter-County development squads, Kildare, Meath and Laois. They are now at a stage in both codes where they have to make a choice as the demands mean they need to focus on one sport or be left behind, most of these kids are only 15 years of age, tough decision for young minds. Rugby though in general is not a threat to GAA - there are more less the same number of GAA clubs in Kildare as rugby clubs in Leinster and there is more GAA clubs in Cork that there are rugby clubs in the whole island.
Unfortunately there is a stigma attached to certain rugby supporters, a cliche becomes a cliche because their is an element of truth. Within rugby circles there is still a certain snobbery element, typified by the question "What school did you go to?" - it still exists not as common as say 20 years ago and Leinster rugby and Irish have generally lost this kind of supporter, these days you find them only at a Leinster Schools Cup games.
My own favourite team sports to watch are Football, rugby union, soccer, rugby league and hurling. Apart from boxing find individual sports boring to watch but ok to play.
To be fair the snobbish element of Irish Rugby is mostly limited to Leinster and in particular South Dublin.
Quote from: trileacman on October 11, 2012, 01:55:38 PM
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 11, 2012, 12:27:57 PM
For me rugby is about club and country, I coach three teams including a Leinster under-age development team but I rarely go watch Leinster play and am very apathetic these towards the Leinster professional team. In fact the way in which professional rugby has grown in the sense of crowd attendance, marketing and TV coverage absolutely amazes me, it really bought into our sense of tribalness (is that a word). I have always supported my country, first game was the Millennium game against England in 1988, Chris Oti scored a hat-trick for England. There is no bandwagon for the national team, those were dark days for Irish rugby but yet Lansdowne Road was always a sell-out and you could only get tickets through your club.
The bandwagon is around the Provinces, Munster been the worst of any sport in Ireland in living memory (The Brave and Faithful et al) although Leinster these days aren't far behind, still amuses me that so many "passionate" Leinster fans have never been to a club game.
Rugby clubs have the exact same problem as many GAA clubs - emigration, lack of funding, competition from other clubs/sports, lack of volunteers etc etc.
On the development team I coach at least half play GAA, some of these are on Inter-County development squads, Kildare, Meath and Laois. They are now at a stage in both codes where they have to make a choice as the demands mean they need to focus on one sport or be left behind, most of these kids are only 15 years of age, tough decision for young minds. Rugby though in general is not a threat to GAA - there are more less the same number of GAA clubs in Kildare as rugby clubs in Leinster and there is more GAA clubs in Cork that there are rugby clubs in the whole island.
Unfortunately there is a stigma attached to certain rugby supporters, a cliche becomes a cliche because their is an element of truth. Within rugby circles there is still a certain snobbery element, typified by the question "What school did you go to?" - it still exists not as common as say 20 years ago and Leinster rugby and Irish have generally lost this kind of supporter, these days you find them only at a Leinster Schools Cup games.
My own favourite team sports to watch are Football, rugby union, soccer, rugby league and hurling. Apart from boxing find individual sports boring to watch but ok to play.
To be fair the snobbish element of Irish Rugby is mostly limited to Leinster and in particular South Dublin.
Roysh!
Quote from: Hardy on October 11, 2012, 12:38:31 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 11, 2012, 12:23:32 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 11, 2012, 12:15:12 PM
As an example how many top level rugby games are decided simply by a referees mistake? How many end in hollers of abuse where he has to be escorted of the field or threatened?
I can only think of two such examples, Munster several years ago in the Heineken Cup and NZ v France in 2007, even then the action the referee missed was minimal at best.
I would suggest that rugby doesn't appear as prone to refereeing mistakes as Gaelic games or soccer because games are rarely level going down the stretch. It feels more devastating when the match turns on a refereeing decision in those circumstances. But when you consider the abuse Alain Rolland got for making the right decision in the Wales-France semi-final last year, this idea that rugby is free of referees deciding matches is fanciful.
Agreed. And it's not limited to questions of competence. Look at the World Cup Final. No way were France ever going to get a scorable penalty in the second half.
I disagree with trileacman that rugby is a shining light in sports administration and rule making. There are plenty examples of shortcomings in laws and practices - the scrum, discriminatory administration at the World Cup, inconsistency between regions in application/interpretation of the laws are some that come to mind.
But while holding rugby forth as a paragon doesn't stand up to scrutiny, I agree that we could learn some things from rugby administration and law-making as well. The respect for referees is probably the biggest one. It doesn't happen by accident or because the players are nice middle-class chaps. It happens because it's in the rules and enforced. As trileacman says as well, they are probably that bit better than us in ability to identify and willingness to tackle flaws in the laws that promote undesirable aspects of the game, such as the "professional" foul, with meaningful sanctions and we could learn frrom that.
I didn't say that rugby "is a shining light in sports administration and rule making", I said they are ahead of the game when compared to soccer or rugby. If you disagree with that then say so, don't disagree with something I didn't say.
Didn't think this thread would gather this much interest tbh. I'm not really much further forward though.
Alot of posts about rule changes, referees, class of supporters etc, but still not many posts on the attraction of the game of rugby. What excites you about the game, what is it about rugby that sets it apart from other games, and mostly, what would make you attend a game?
In my original post, I listed things about GAA sports/soccer that catches my eye, that is exciting and skilful about those games. I don't see anything in rugby to add to such a list. Perhaps someone could tell me their views on that?
Quote from: BennyCake on October 11, 2012, 02:01:35 PM
Didn't think this thread would gather this much interest tbh. I'm not really much further forward though.
Alot of posts about rule changes, referees, class of supporters etc, but still not many posts on the attraction of the game of rugby. What excites you about the game, what is it about rugby that sets it apart from other games, and mostly, what would make you attend a game?
In my original post, I listed things about GAA sports/soccer that catches my eye, that is exciting and skilful about those games. I don't see anything in rugby to add to such a list. Perhaps someone could tell me their views on that?
I like the high catching of a full back, the skill required by someone like O'Gara, Pienaar or Sexton to compose themselves enough to score that last gasp drop goal or penalty to win a game.
A small tubby guy has to throw a ball accurately and straight in all weathers through a sea of 6 foot giants being lifted to serious heights.
The hitting which is just unreal and bone crunching at times yet lads get right back up on their feet. The bravery of the players e.g. Tommy Bowe's against Wales in 2009 where he could have been flattened but then ended up under the posts
Watching O'Driscoll when in full flow, he had that ability to do something nobody else could think about.
The fact that a watery skitter like Peter Stringer is in the same side as a giant like O'Connell and a geezer who looks like he's had too many fish suppers yet is probably fitter than you or me!
I like the fact that when I go to a rugby game I don't have to listen to mouths ganching at the referee ALL THE TIME, and I have yet to hear Rugby supporters call a rival player a gypsy or a tr**p.
I like the fact I can go to a match and have a beer. Any Rugby game I've been to has a really positive and respectful atmosphere and the fact that most crowds now have complete silence when a kicker is taking a penalty further underlines this.
Quote from: trileacman on October 11, 2012, 01:59:32 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 11, 2012, 12:38:31 PM
Quote from: deiseach on October 11, 2012, 12:23:32 PM
Quote from: trileacman on October 11, 2012, 12:15:12 PM
As an example how many top level rugby games are decided simply by a referees mistake? How many end in hollers of abuse where he has to be escorted of the field or threatened?
I can only think of two such examples, Munster several years ago in the Heineken Cup and NZ v France in 2007, even then the action the referee missed was minimal at best.
I would suggest that rugby doesn't appear as prone to refereeing mistakes as Gaelic games or soccer because games are rarely level going down the stretch. It feels more devastating when the match turns on a refereeing decision in those circumstances. But when you consider the abuse Alain Rolland got for making the right decision in the Wales-France semi-final last year, this idea that rugby is free of referees deciding matches is fanciful.
Agreed. And it's not limited to questions of competence. Look at the World Cup Final. No way were France ever going to get a scorable penalty in the second half.
I disagree with trileacman that rugby is a shining light in sports administration and rule making. There are plenty examples of shortcomings in laws and practices - the scrum, discriminatory administration at the World Cup, inconsistency between regions in application/interpretation of the laws are some that come to mind.
But while holding rugby forth as a paragon doesn't stand up to scrutiny, I agree that we could learn some things from rugby administration and law-making as well. The respect for referees is probably the biggest one. It doesn't happen by accident or because the players are nice middle-class chaps. It happens because it's in the rules and enforced. As trileacman says as well, they are probably that bit better than us in ability to identify and willingness to tackle flaws in the laws that promote undesirable aspects of the game, such as the "professional" foul, with meaningful sanctions and we could learn frrom that.
I didn't say that rugby "is a shining light in sports administration and rule making", I said they are ahead of the game when compared to soccer or rugby. If you disagree with that then say so, don't disagree with something I didn't say.
A fair cop - apologies. I over-interpreted your regard for rugby's performancein these regards. In fact we seem to have roughly the same opinion.
Despite coming for a Gaelic football background I always enjoyed watching rugby growing up and still love to watch it today. There is something about the physical collisions and physical intensity in rugby that stirs something primal. People have always been drawn to watching people engage in physical conflict whether it be in ancient Rome or the Olympics or two fellas beating each other up in the boxing ring or the cage. Plus it takes a certain amount of skill to transfer a ball down a field when you can't pass it forward.
Why people like certain sports and not others is a bit of as mystery. I know hurling people in south Galway who are passionate hurling supporters but they wouldn't even open their curtains to watch a game of Gaelic football in their front garden. It's just not the game they were raised with.
What excites you about the game?
This purely from a spectator point of view. So many but here are a few...
1. The physicality. The tackle is a thing of beauty, be it a straight up hit, a chop at the legs, an ankle tap or a mad scramble to catch a guy from behind.
2. The ruck - an out and out fight for possession, just body against body.
3. The scrum - watch your scrum demolish the opposition - almost primal like.
4. Watching someone like Rob Kearney catch an up and under know that 9/10 he will get hit and hit hard when he comes down, technically brilliant and fearless at the same time.
5. A lot pop pass out of the tackle, an O'Driscoll speciality.
6. There is 2 mins left in a game and a team is losing by 2 points, watching a team like Munster in those minutes is fantastic, it is symbiosis like, they have a single goal, they all know their role, they work through the phases and bang someone like O'Gara drops a goal, sport at it's brilliant best.
what is it about rugby that sets it apart from other games?
Team work and how the skills are so specific for different positions. The generic skill base is a lot narrower in rugby than say soccer.
and mostly, what would make you attend a game?
Same reason why I would attend a Round Towers minor match, a Kildare championship match or a u17 rugby match I love live sport, the thrill of a great score regardless of the level, the smart comments, getting one over a friend who is a rival coach, watching a young lad who have coached playing rep sport and feeling pride inside knowing that you helped a tidy bit in helping him fufill his talent.
Sport is fantastic, it takes up an awful lot of my life as am I sure it does many here. I personally can't understand why anyone would diss any sport, for me not been able to appreciate team or individual sport at any level is quite simply an alien concept.
Quote from: thewobbler on October 11, 2012, 01:13:25 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on October 11, 2012, 12:51:05 PM
Hardy, would you not agree that the reason that rugby have got the referee issue right is because it's a very 'new' sport in terms of mass participation - imagine trying to effect the same change in gaelic football, hurling or soccer now; it might have been possible 80 years ago (which, in my view, would be the equivalent to rugby's initiative), but it would be nigh on impossible nowadays.
This is a truly bizarre post.
I'd guess there were more people playing rugby in London 80 years ago than are playing hurling now.
It's very easy to stamp out cheating and stamp out hounding of referees: punish the offenders. But it's not a culture that exists in soccer, and football is following suit.
I don't agree, Billy. While I don't think yours is a bizarre suggestion, as I see where you're coming from, I agree with wobbler that it's not that difficult to frame the laws as needed and enforce them as required to change the current culture of disrespect for referees.
The GAA legislators have managed to force through many changes that most would have seen as contrary to the ethos and traditions of football - many to its detriment. Look at the almost complete removal of physicality from the game (and the consequent prospering of cheating because it becomes easier and easier to feign being fouled). And the hiving off of millions annually for direct payments to players. These things happened despite the wishes of the majority of members, so I don't see the difficulty of introducing laws to implement a positive change in the culture of the game that would likely be supported by the majority of members.
QuoteI like the fact that when I go to a rugby game I don't have to listen to mouths ganching at the referee ALL THE TIME, and I have yet to hear Rugby supporters call a rival player a gypsy or a tr**p.
That might be the perception but rugby supporters at local club level are no better or worse than GAA or soccer supporter. Players get abuse the ref gets abuse, in provincial grounds generally the guy who comes to the local rugby match is the same guy who goes the GAA match and shouts the same abuse. However in Leinster the Branch issues guidelines and if the referee reports abuse in his match report the clubs get sanctioned, only 2 years ago Longford rugby club lost home advantage for their 1st two league games.
A good game of rugby is ok but its generally over hyped. Rugby league is a more exciting game.
Soccer on the other hand....now there's a cure for insomnia.
QuoteSport is fantastic, it takes up an awful lot of my life as am I sure it does many here. I personally can't understand why anyone would diss any sport, for me not been able to appreciate team or individual sport at any level is quite simply an alien concept.
+1
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 11, 2012, 02:40:00 PM
QuoteI like the fact that when I go to a rugby game I don't have to listen to mouths ganching at the referee ALL THE TIME, and I have yet to hear Rugby supporters call a rival player a gypsy or a tr**p.
That might be the perception but rugby supporters at local club level are no better or worse than GAA or soccer supporter. Players get abuse the ref gets abuse, in provincial grounds generally the guy who comes to the local rugby match is the same guy who goes the GAA match and shouts the same abuse. However in Leinster the Branch issues guidelines and if the referee reports abuse in his match report the clubs get sanctioned, only 2 years ago Longford rugby club lost home advantage for their 1st two league games.
Exactly. And again, what's the relevant point? Rules (laws) and their enforcement. A healthy culture informs the rules but also proceeds from them. It's not even bicycle science, never mind about rockets.
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 11, 2012, 02:41:19 PM
A good game of rugby is ok but its generally over hyped. Rugby league is a more exciting game.
I find rugby league a bit too repetitive. You know you are going to get 5 tackles and a kick every time. Union just has more variety.
I like Rugby Union a lot but, for reasons I struggle to understand, I can't abide the League version. It might be that they go so far to eliminate the stop-start shortcomings of Union that they create something artificial. Counting tackles. The back-heel thing that I find ludicrous. (But why? Is it more ludicrous than a scrum?) And it doesn't seem to accommodate the breadth of skills, or of physiques, that Union does. It seems like a makey-uppey thing to me. But maybe I was hopelessly prejudiced by years of Eddie-Waring-polluted Saturday afternoons that seemed like a bizarre mixture of Last Of The Summer Wine and bad sport.
Quote from: Hardy on October 11, 2012, 02:35:24 PM
Quote from: thewobbler on October 11, 2012, 01:13:25 PM
Quote from: Billys Boots on October 11, 2012, 12:51:05 PM
Hardy, would you not agree that the reason that rugby have got the referee issue right is because it's a very 'new' sport in terms of mass participation - imagine trying to effect the same change in gaelic football, hurling or soccer now; it might have been possible 80 years ago (which, in my view, would be the equivalent to rugby's initiative), but it would be nigh on impossible nowadays.
This is a truly bizarre post.
I'd guess there were more people playing rugby in London 80 years ago than are playing hurling now.
It's very easy to stamp out cheating and stamp out hounding of referees: punish the offenders. But it's not a culture that exists in soccer, and football is following suit.
I don't agree, Billy. While I don't think yours is a bizarre suggestion, as I see where you're coming from, I agree with wobbler that it's not that difficult to frame the laws as needed and enforce them as required to change the current culture of disrespect for referees.
The GAA legislators have managed to force through many changes that most would have seen as contrary to the ethos and traditions of football - many to its detriment. Look at the almost complete removal of physicality from the game (and the consequent prospering of cheating because it becomes easier and easier to feign being fouled). And the hiving off of millions annually for direct payments to players. These things happened despite the wishes of the majority of members, so I don't see the difficulty of introducing laws to implement a positive change in the culture of the game that would likely be supported by the majority of members.
Oddly, my disagreement is based on the same principles - I think it's harder nowadays, from a 'cultural' reference point, to effect change - the culture differing nowadays (in my view) in an opposition to change - I'm only talking now in relation to sports administration, and my experience of sports adminstrators. I think soccer has suffered more than all other sports as the world game - it must be almost impossible to build consensus for change. A long-winded way of saying that for rugby, in its infancy as a professional sport, with a limited number of participants - it has to have been easier to introduce new rules, new codes of conduct and new (or unconventional, from a sporting viewpoint) attitudes than: (a) soccer as the world game, or (b) gaelic games as a more mature (from a longevity viewpoint).
OK. I see your point. And I probably agree with it about soccer (not that I care what happens to soccer at this stage). But I don't think it's a real obstacle to reform of the GAA playing rules, one reason being the seeming ability of the executive to force through any change they want and get the majority to vote for it. So, in a sense, the problem for us is not the inertia of a large organisation and its membership, but the apathy or misguided agenda of the executive level.
Quote from: GalwayBayBoy on October 11, 2012, 02:47:01 PM
Quote from: Nally Stand on October 11, 2012, 02:41:19 PM
A good game of rugby is ok but its generally over hyped. Rugby league is a more exciting game.
I find rugby league a bit too repetitive. You know you are going to get 5 tackles and a kick every time. Union just has more variety.
I see where you're coming from but to me it still seems to have much more action/running on the ball and less of the pile-ons you see every few seconds in union.
Quotethe seeming ability of the executive to force through any change they want and get the majority to vote for it
I think you've just escapsulated 'the Irish condition' there ... :-[
I wouldn't come from a "rugby area" at all so my first exposure to the game was when I was living over in England. A few of the lads in the GAA club over there told me that I should try out for their local rugby team and I thought I'd give it a go for the craic. It was a great sport to play and I regret not keeping it up when I moved back home. I think it's great that the sport caters for all shapes and sizes - an outside back could have vastly different physical attributes and skills compared to a front rower, yet both men are equally important to the team.
I still follow the game but I have found myself falling out of love with it slightly in recent years. I think rugby has become too attritional and some of the subtleties of the game are being lost. You only need to look at someone like Ronan O'Gara who possesses a great variety of creative skills yet there seems to be a constant focus on his defensive frailties rather than on his undoubted strengths. Rugby has become obsessed with defense and the game as a spectacle has suffered as a result (perhaps the same could be said about Gaelic Football?). Professionalism has profoundly changed the way the game is played. You only need to watch any of the TG4 reruns of 5 Nations matches from the 80s and early 90s to observe the difference in the conditioning of the players. It's interesting that the players that have been retiring in the last 2-3 years are the first generation of players who were professional for their entire careers and there are numerous stories of medical problems now emerging - John Fogarty & Bernard Jackman.
I don't follow the Heineken Cup as much these days and the whole Munster/Leinster rivalry is a bit repetitive and irritating. I am a proud Kildareman but I find it hard to identify with a Leinster team and the Munster bandwagon in recent years has become equally sickening. I still enjoy following the national team but I get the sense that the provinces are becoming more important to the rugby public. It would be a great shame if the international game was to decline like it has in soccer.
Quote from: Hardy on October 11, 2012, 02:53:34 PM
I like Rugby Union a lot but, for reasons I struggle to understand, I can't abide the League version. It might be that they go so far to eliminate the stop-start shortcomings of Union that they create something artificial. Counting tackles. The back-heel thing that I find ludicrous. (But why? Is it more ludicrous than a scrum?) And it doesn't seem to accommodate the breadth of skills, or of physiques, that Union does. It seems like a makey-uppey thing to me. But maybe I was hopelessly prejudiced by years of Eddie-Waring-polluted Saturday afternoons that seemed like a bizarre mixture of Last Of The Summer Wine and bad sport.
Is it more ludicrous than putting your toe under the ball? Or the fact that you get penalised for not kicking a free far enough away?
I'm not having a go it's just that all sports have their quirks and it's a matter of respecting that.
I agree entirely. Ludicrousness is subjective and even inconsistent at that. And I'm all for respect, if we exclude basketball.
Wouldn't be top of my list of sports but still very watchable 5 nations or 6 nations as it's known now always generates a interest. The world cup especially New Zealand in full flow are a joy to watch,the haka never grows old & Jonah Lomu was one of the best ever. I'd say the best ever sports commentator was Bill McLaren.
On another note I've seen a number of our underage talent choose Rugby over GAA for example we lost number key players off the U21 team that played in this year All Ireland final & at other levels a number of players are considering the switch over. Of course i wish them all well in what they do but a small county like ours can't afford to lose talent & the lure of professional game is too much to ignore.
Quote from: Hardy on October 11, 2012, 02:53:34 PM
I like Rugby Union a lot but, for reasons I struggle to understand, I can't abide the League version. It might be that they go so far to eliminate the stop-start shortcomings of Union that they create something artificial. Counting tackles. The back-heel thing that I find ludicrous. (But why? Is it more ludicrous than a scrum?) And it doesn't seem to accommodate the breadth of skills, or of physiques, that Union does. It seems like a makey-uppey thing to me. But maybe I was hopelessly prejudiced by years of Eddie-Waring-polluted Saturday afternoons that seemed like a bizarre mixture of Last Of The Summer Wine and bad sport.
Same, I'm not the greatest rugby union follower but I detest rugby league with an absolute passion. It's just a game devoid of any tempo. The guys playing it are built like houses but yet they can't burst through a tackle or really put their physicality on show? That and the fact the basic formula for a successful player is size*speed. Also is it just me or is alot the running done at half pace? As if it's a warm-up for a more intense, faster game starting in 10mins.
Rugby Pro's:
- Caters for all sizes and skill sets.
- a very detailed game with a great variety of moves and skills.
- The awarding of points in HC, there is as much tension/excitement in watching a team try to get to 4 tries or come back to within 7 points. Matches that have reached an obvious win/lose result at half-time are still interesting, I've stopped watching too many GAA matches as its obvious after 30 minutes who's going to win.
- The various arts of the game, almost distinct to rugby union = tap-tackle, line-out catches, snipping, mauling, dummy pass, drop kicks, broken field play, garryowen's, scrumaging etc.
- A game that combines some of the fastest men with some of the strongest men, all being directed by some exceptionally skilled thinkers and footballers.
I dont mind rugby to be honest. I really like the physical contact aspect of it. I would watch Ireland but dont htink I would go too much out my way to watch another team.
I like sports in the following order of preference;
Hurling
Gaelic Football/Rugby on a par
Soccer (really hard to get a good game and I think 90 mins is far too long)
Quote from: ross4life on October 11, 2012, 05:05:20 PM
On another note I've seen a number of our underage talent choose Rugby over GAA for example we lost number key players off the U21 team that played in this year All Ireland final &
Ehhhh?????
I certainly hope not. ???
For the record I detest effin rubby. It's an abomination of a sport made worse by the large number of eejit bandwagoners who think I need to be afflicted with their second or third hand opinions of the stupoid game every time I go for a pint between October and April.
Give me a could wet windy mucky FBD game in Ballinamore or Ballinlough any day :D
To paraphrase someone on here a while ago...(it might even be the Wobbler!!!...no doubt he'll put me right if I'm wrong)
.."let's all gather around in a circle and push really hard against each other". Sums it up really.
Hate it.
Played by nations colonised by the Brits at the expense of native sports. A bit like having gas chambers as reminders in countries the Germans annexed.
Quote from: ONeill on October 11, 2012, 09:37:07 PM
Hate it.
Played by nations colonised by the Brits at the expense of native sports. A bit like having gas chambers as reminders in countries the Germans annexed.
Since native sports tend to be crap (American football, Australian rules, Gaelic games ;), petanque, shinty, etc etc etc), then more power to the Brits.
Quote from: Hardy on October 11, 2012, 04:23:45 PM
I agree entirely. Ludicrousness is subjective and even inconsistent at that. And I'm all for respect, if we exclude basketball.
Yer head's cut! Basketball's a great game to watch. And they usually seem to be tight games with only a point or two in it at the end - nothing like seeing that last-minute three-pointer going in from halfway down the court.
Quote from: Myles Na G. on October 11, 2012, 09:59:08 PM
Quote from: ONeill on October 11, 2012, 09:37:07 PM
Hate it.
Played by nations colonised by the Brits at the expense of native sports. A bit like having gas chambers as reminders in countries the Germans annexed.
Since native sports tend to be crap (American football, Australian rules, Gaelic games ;), petanque, shinty, etc etc etc), then more power to the Brits.
All sports are "native", they had to be codified somewhere for the first time. The only reason cricket, rugby and soccer spread worldwide is that their aficionados did a better job of exporting them to the rest of the world and getting locals to play. It's not because they're superior sports (IMHO there's no such thing as a superior sport with the exception of hurling), it's because they were better organised and better promoted in the early days of codified sport, now they're grandfathered in as the world standard.
Quote from: ONeill on October 11, 2012, 09:37:07 PM
Hate it.
Played by nations colonised by the Brits at the expense of native sports. A bit like having gas chambers as reminders in countries the Germans annexed.
I'm curious - do you hate snooker as well?
I love rugby league. It's class. As an 80 minute match for action and entertainment it is hard to top.
The super 15 in union is quite good. Some good skills on show in those matches. If you watch a Northern hemisphere match after it is quite a contrast. Many union matches have some good bits of action condensed by lots of lads rolling about. Some of it is rubbish.
Rugby in Ireland have hit the mark with the tag rugby as an enjoyable pastime that lots of people regardless of skill or ability level can participate in without slogging about training 4 nights a week. This is something lacking in some other sports.
How do northern hemisphere RL matches compare to southern ones, Turk?
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 11, 2012, 10:24:17 PM
How do northern hemisphere RL matches compare to southern ones, Turk?
Howya Eamonn
In Super 15 there tends to be much less kicking away of possession and most players are very comfortable with the ball in hand. The tempo tends to be a bit higher.
I went to one of Ireland's 6 nations matches & thought it was a terrible spectacle. If there a ruck(if thats right- basically there is bodies everywhere ) and the ref gives a penalty most if the time you don't know what it was given for. I spent most of the match watching the big screen wishing it was over.
What was the score in the France - NZ final? 8-7? Boring
I hate the 6 nation bandwagon supporters who watch 5 games a year and know everything about it. Embarrassing
Rugby is a fantastic game, for all the reasons that the boys have mentioned. But there is also the magnificent pageantry of the internationals. The French singing the best anthem in the world. The Welsh Guards lead by Private Gwilym Jenkins. Bread of Heaven. Flower of Scotland. The Lions tours. They're all fantastic sporting events.
Rugby has lost a little of its soul through professionalism. The rise of the defensive couches means that you always always here this stuff about work-rate now. Work-rate is for the factory. Rugby should be about glory.
David Duckham quit rugby when he thought it was moving too much from players to coaches, and that was in the seventies. God only knows what he makes of it now. And a lot of the stuff here about the provinces is ersatz horseshit of the highest order.
But at the international level, there's nothing to compete with it. That's the real engine of growth of rugby in Ireland. The fact that those of us that love it loved it from watching Ireland in the Five Nations as kids. People were predicting the demise of the Six Nations after the game turned professional, on the basis that England and France would be that much better than the rest. Hasn't happened. After the Championship, the Six Nations is the highlight of my sporting year.
West Brits.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2012, 09:04:58 PM
Quote from: ross4life on October 11, 2012, 05:05:20 PM
On another note I've seen a number of our underage talent choose Rugby over GAA for example we lost number key players off the U21 team that played in this year All Ireland final &
Ehhhh?????
I certainly hope not. ???
I meant to say could have played in this year U21 final for example Daniel Qualter would have made a big difference to our midfield.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 11, 2012, 10:01:03 PM
Quote from: Hardy on October 11, 2012, 04:23:45 PM
I agree entirely. Ludicrousness is subjective and even inconsistent at that. And I'm all for respect, if we exclude basketball.
Yer head's cut! Basketball's a great game to watch. And they usually seem to be tight games with only a point or two in it at the end - nothing like seeing that last-minute three-pointer going in from halfway down the court.
I agree great game to watch it's even better live & whenever i'm the USA i try to catch NBA game.
So basketball - what's the attraction? I can only discern one skill - hitting the target with a thrown ball. I don't really rate being able to throw the ball to a teammate or being able to poke it down into the net from above. Throwing it from distance into the net is a fine skill, but it's not much different to darts. Oh, and being tall - that seems to be the other skill of basketball. But then darts has being fat.
I haven't that much time for indoor sports anyway. Except boxing. Now there's a sport.
Quote from: Hardy on October 12, 2012, 01:05:15 AM
So basketball - what's the attraction? I can only discern one skill - hitting the target with a thrown ball. I don't really rate being able to throw the ball to a teammate or being able to poke it down into the net from above. Throwing it from distance into the net is a fine skill, but it's not much different to darts. Oh, and being tall - that seems to be the other skill of basketball. But then darts has being fat.
Dribbling. Catching (I think we have that one in Gaelic football too). Ducking. Weaving. Feinting. Blocking. Passing (I think we have that one in rugby too). Accurately shooting a ball into a horizontal target not much bigger than itself, sometimes from a considerable distance (last time I played it was quite different from playing darts).
Quote from: Two Hands FFS on October 11, 2012, 10:51:03 PM
What was the score in the France - NZ final? 8-7? Boring
Really? I thought it was thrilling, utterly compulsive viewing. Different strokes etc.
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2012, 04:23:18 AM
Quote from: Hardy on October 12, 2012, 01:05:15 AM
So basketball - what's the attraction? I can only discern one skill - hitting the target with a thrown ball. I don't really rate being able to throw the ball to a teammate or being able to poke it down into the net from above. Throwing it from distance into the net is a fine skill, but it's not much different to darts. Oh, and being tall - that seems to be the other skill of basketball. But then darts has being fat.
Dribbling. Catching (I think we have that one in Gaelic football too). Ducking. Weaving. Feinting. Blocking. Passing (I think we have that one in rugby too). Accurately shooting a ball into a horizontal target not much bigger than itself, sometimes from a considerable distance (last time I played it was quite different from playing darts).
Ducking is a skill?
We can come back to the others, but really?
Rugby can be really entertaining as a TV sport but less so watching it live. Have only been to a few live matches but due to the massive physicality any break in play is accompanied by a mass invasion of medical staff to tend to injured players. This leaves it very stop-start viewing. At least on TV they fill these gaps with replays and analysis.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 11, 2012, 12:27:57 PM
For me rugby is about club and country, I coach three teams including a Leinster under-age development team but I rarely go watch Leinster play and am very apathetic these towards the Leinster professional team. In fact the way in which professional rugby has grown in the sense of crowd attendance, marketing and TV coverage absolutely amazes me, it really bought into our sense of tribalness (is that a word). I have always supported my country, first game was the Millennium game against England in 1988, Chris Oti scored a hat-trick for England. There is no bandwagon for the national team, those were dark days for Irish rugby but yet Lansdowne Road was always a sell-out and you could only get tickets through your club.
The bandwagon is around the Provinces, Munster been the worst of any sport in Ireland in living memory (The Brave and Faithful et al) although Leinster these days aren't far behind, still amuses me that so many "passionate" Leinster fans have never been to a club game.
Rugby clubs have the exact same problem as many GAA clubs - emigration, lack of funding, competition from other clubs/sports, lack of volunteers etc etc.
On the development team I coach at least half play GAA, some of these are on Inter-County development squads, Kildare, Meath and Laois. They are now at a stage in both codes where they have to make a choice as the demands mean they need to focus on one sport or be left behind, most of these kids are only 15 years of age, tough decision for young minds. Rugby though in general is not a threat to GAA - there are more less the same number of GAA clubs in Kildare as rugby clubs in Leinster and there is more GAA clubs in Cork that there are rugby clubs in the whole island.
Unfortunately there is a stigma attached to certain rugby supporters, a cliche becomes a cliche because their is an element of truth. Within rugby circles there is still a certain snobbery element, typified by the question "What school did you go to?" - it still exists not as common as say 20 years ago and Leinster rugby and Irish have generally lost this kind of supporter, these days you find them only at a Leinster Schools Cup games.
My own favourite team sports to watch are Football, rugby union, soccer, rugby league and hurling. Apart from boxing find individual sports boring to watch but ok to play.
Completely agree with all of the above.
Can only add to it that I like rugby league. the English and French RFU's new euro rugby deal will mean less money and less power to the Irish provinces (but I think its an uneven playing field right now as Irish and Welsh provinces play against the smaller 'clubs' of rugby.
finally - rugby referees dont blow for half the stuff they should. if they did, it would not be possible to watch as a spectacle. most attacking teams play on the gain line and as a result a huge proportion of passes are actually forward passes. There is offside at almost every ruck that isnt penalised and it now seems like every team (not just international) is following the example of the former tri-nations in resorting to foul play and illegally stopping the ball etc in contact etc - again rarely penalised.
rugby can be a great game to watch- most (team) ball sports are imo.
Quote from: ross4life on October 12, 2012, 12:44:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2012, 09:04:58 PM
Quote from: ross4life on October 11, 2012, 05:05:20 PM
On another note I've seen a number of our underage talent choose Rugby over GAA for example we lost number key players off the U21 team that played in this year All Ireland final &
Ehhhh?????
I certainly hope not. ???
I meant to say could have played in this year U21 final for example Daniel Qualter would have made a big difference to our midfield.
Ah I see.
I don't think any of the other lost to rubby bucks were any great shakes at football anyway and wre not very likely to have been on the team this year.
I think DQ's best asset was his size which would become less relevant as he moved into the adult ranks without ability to go with it which in my opinion was limited enough too.
QuoteDucking is a skill?
It's important in boxing, though you may call it something else? :P
Quote from: Billys Boots on October 12, 2012, 12:40:31 PM
QuoteDucking is a skill?
It's important in boxing, though you may call it something else? :P
If Mickey Linden had Ducking in among his array of skills he might still be playing. :P
Quote from: Hardy on October 12, 2012, 10:09:43 AM
Quote from: Eamonnca1 on October 12, 2012, 04:23:18 AM
Quote from: Hardy on October 12, 2012, 01:05:15 AM
So basketball - what's the attraction? I can only discern one skill - hitting the target with a thrown ball. I don't really rate being able to throw the ball to a teammate or being able to poke it down into the net from above. Throwing it from distance into the net is a fine skill, but it's not much different to darts. Oh, and being tall - that seems to be the other skill of basketball. But then darts has being fat.
Dribbling. Catching (I think we have that one in Gaelic football too). Ducking. Weaving. Feinting. Blocking. Passing (I think we have that one in rugby too). Accurately shooting a ball into a horizontal target not much bigger than itself, sometimes from a considerable distance (last time I played it was quite different from playing darts).
Ducking is a skill?
We can come back to the others, but really?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=18ASBsQfXnw
Quote from: Hardy on October 12, 2012, 01:05:15 AM
So basketball - what's the attraction? I can only discern one skill - hitting the target with a thrown ball. I don't really rate being able to throw the ball to a teammate or being able to poke it down into the net from above. Throwing it from distance into the net is a fine skill, but it's not much different to darts. Oh, and being tall - that seems to be the other skill of basketball. But then darts has being fat.
I haven't that much time for indoor sports anyway. Except boxing. Now there's a sport.
Maybe you're joking?
I think any activity which requires split second mental decisions coupled with accurate mechanical movements all while under the immediate physical presence of an opponent - and all the above done at pace - can be classified as a skill requiring sport.
Well we were loosely talking about sports we like and don't like and why. I don't like basketball because it bores me. It's not really enough to come into a discussion and say that, so I thought about why it bores me. And I came to the conclusion that it's because the skills involved (bar one) don't impress me as regards their apparent difficulty of execution and the range of skills appears to me to be minimal compared to just about any other ball sport I can think of, bar Olympic handball and netball.
I see it as a question of degree of difficulty and, for me, I'm just never impressed by the skills required when I'm watching basketball, by comparison to nearly all other ball sports and I've found it much easier to play basic basketball (with the exception of the one difficult skill) than all the ball sports I've played or tried to play: football, soccer, golf, tennis, squash, polo, snooker, pool and handball.
I was joking about the polo.
Hardy, I don't mean this in a snarky way, but have you ever actually sat down and watched a full game of basketball?
Life is too short, Eamonn.
Seriously, though, not as far as I can remember. It just wouldn't hold my attention for that long. And I've just thought of another thing that irritates me about it - too much scoring. A score is the norm rather than the exception as the outcome of an attack. Soccer is at the other extreme in this regard though that's not the reason I find that more and more unwatchable too.
I really think you should give it a chance. If you watched it for at least a few minutes I'm sure you'd see what's going on.
Frequent scoring can be a feature of Gaelic games too, particularly hurling.
Infrequent scoring is actually part of the attraction of soccer. Each score is such a big deal that the rest of the game is pure suspense.
What I like about Gaelic games is they combine frequent scoring with the suspense of soccer because of the added value of the goal.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 12, 2012, 12:38:46 PM
Quote from: ross4life on October 12, 2012, 12:44:55 AM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 11, 2012, 09:04:58 PM
Quote from: ross4life on October 11, 2012, 05:05:20 PM
On another note I've seen a number of our underage talent choose Rugby over GAA for example we lost number key players off the U21 team that played in this year All Ireland final &
Ehhhh?????
I certainly hope not. ???
I meant to say could have played in this year U21 final for example Daniel Qualter would have made a big difference to our midfield.
Ah I see.
I don't think any of the other lost to rubby bucks were any great shakes at football anyway and wre not very likely to have been on the team this year.
I think DQ's best asset was his size which would become less relevant as he moved into the adult ranks without ability to go with it which in my opinion was limited enough too.
In my opinion they were around the same level Compton,Kilroy,C.Shine & all were regular starters on our underage teams, in 08 they all played important roles capturing our first Ted Webb cup for 20 years. Qualter in most games i seen him play dominated midfield he reminded me Shaq & offerred more than just height. I have no doubt they would have been part of this year U-21 team, for example we had to play Niall Daly a defender & half hit Cathal Shine in midfield.
I also think Basketball is a poor game.
It's in my top 3 along with rugby and horse racing as sports that I have no interest in.
Quote from: laoislad on October 12, 2012, 06:49:10 PM
I also think Basketball is a poor game.
It's in my top 3 along with rugby and horse racing as sports that I have no interest in.
Same, don't get the attraction. No time for horse-racing either. Watched a bit of handball at the world cup, seemed better than both.
Why is rugby so annoying?
http://www.thefreekick.com/board/index.php?threads/why-is-rugby-so-annoying.18830/
We are a nation of begrudgers apparently. So Bono said once. In one of his cleverer insights, he traced this scepticism of success to soup-taking during the famine. Then he rambled off on a patronising parable about some yank and a big house and the American dream and Irish dreamers and I lost interest again. But if we are begrudging as a people then it might just be one of the few things we do well. And even stranger, we do it well without falling over ourselves to congratulate one another about the whole endeavour.
We are also a nation of bandwagoners. Bebo, head shops and Garth Brooks all captured the public imagination here and became the greatest thing ever for a few days/weeks/months. And then they mostly just disappeared from our lives and we reverted to our normal selves, eagerly awaiting the next fad to sweep us off our feet. But what if one of those short-lived, harmless-seeming indulgences endured? What would Ireland look like in an apparently permanently obsessive state? Locked in a national embrace with a sport few play but everyone claims to love, we're currently finding that out.
In the conflict between bandwagoner and begrudger I'm happy to be in the latter camp. There may not be anything necessarily evil, or even mildly harmful, about the infestation of rugby into the consciousness of the Irish public. But the scale of this love affair with rugby is nauseating to those who aren't particularly interested. You can't just ignore rugby, the same way you couldn't just ignore the Plague in the Middle Ages. It occupies the news pages, the sport pages and the social pages of our newspapers. Social networks are corrupted by the rambling ill-informed opinions of a general public who have only taken any sort of interest in this sport in the last decade. And the assumption that grates the most is that we're all ever so proud of how this small little nation is performing on the world stage. And we're not just proud of them, we're proud of ourselves for our fantastic support and our growth as a nation.
The unbridled euphoria that greeted Ireland's Six Nations win last weekend was far from unexpected. Some of it was merited. By kick-off time there had been three weeks of intense media coverage about the retirement of Ireland's greatest rugby player. And the stage was set for a grand finale. A win in Paris would be the perfect send-off. Except it wasn't quite a perfect send-off. It was a championship win in a tournament where the championship plays second fiddle to a Grand Slam. And that battle had long since been lost. This is an annual six team tournament, where only five teams have any sort of realistic chance of ever winning and only four teams have had any sort of realistic chance for the last decade. Ireland won. It's an achievement we should be recognising on a fairly regular basis by now.
Ireland have 2 "Grand Slams" in more than a century. Simple mathematics assumes you should win four matches in a row about once in every 16 years. The paucity of our return isn't shameful – it's simply a reflection of the standing rugby has held in Irish society for the vast majority of its existence. It didn't gain widespread popularity because it was too complex to be enjoyed casually, it was too elitist to be played universally and it was frankly too boring to draw in a curious crowd beyond the core support base.
But now, it's almost become our national game. Everyone has an opinion. From the sports fan at work who loves every game going to the crank calling Liveline to complain about the disrespectful noises made when someone was kicking for a goal, everybody has something to say about every game Ireland play. The Marian Finucane Show features some class of a rugby pundit virtually every week. And Marian herself isn't short of a viewpoint of course. Sure didn't she watch the game the same as everyone else? And didn't her heart skip a beat when "we went upstairs to the TMO" to confirm what was obvious in real-time?
The problem with these opinions is they are all the same. The game is won and lost at the breakdown. O'Connell has the heart of a lion. O'Driscoll is so brave. And what hands! Oh what glorious hands! And that's about it. The more adventurous armchair fan might venture to rehash a Gerry Thornley opinion on Conor Murray's pass or the "linespeed" of the French defence. But the overwhelming probability is they haven't played the game, nor have they seen a game played outside of a stadium so they don't really have anything to offer. They just regurgitate the same opinions each week, simply changing the name of our next opponents and seemingly believing in the nonsense they are spouting in unison. It's creepy.
Living in Dublin and not having much interest in rugby is what I imagine living in Mount Carmel, Texas and not being a fan of David Koresh must have felt like. You can politely nod at the brainwashed masses, exchange pleasantries about a game you didn't watch but know in detail because every middle-of-the-road, mainstream, bland DJ on the radio felt compelled to mention it at every turn. But the overriding feeling is a horrible sense that everyone has been taken in by a con. And they are blissfully unaware of how ridiculous they all sound extolling its virtues.
It would be more polite to stand idly by while the country pauses to cheer on their heroes but that stance is almost impossible for anyone with any emotions whatsoever. It would be more mature to simply ignore the delight others are taking in a victory. But maybe the whole country didn't grow up as a nation that fateful day when England or France came to Croke Park. Some of us have been left with real emotional reactions like bitterness and jealousy and self-righteousness and cynicism.
Without wanting to try and out-Bono the man himself, there's something particularly post-colonial about our infuriating need for acceptance from the world. It wouldn't be enough to go to France, win a match and return home with the trophy to a modest gathering at the airport. A gathering proportionate to the percentage of the population who actually play rugby maybe. That wouldn't do at all. This was rugby.
So we didn't just honour Brian O'Driscoll ourselves, thank him for the years of service and tell him how great he was. We wanted to know what the English thought of him. Were they honouring them the way they should? And as luck would have it wasn't Enda in the White House? Getting Obama to mention him by name? Perfectly appropriate, measured and sensible apparently. The idea of a speechwriter or political assistant with an imagination deficit suggesting to Obama that he mention Brian O'Driscoll in his St Patrick's Day aside is cringeworthy. Has a Taoiseach ever looked more demeaned and insignificant than the beaming Enda Kenny, giddy and gleeful that Obama was deigning to humour us with that shout-out? Can you even imagine Ronald Reagan mentioning some long forgotten obscure Irish rugby hero from our unforgettable Triple Crown in 1982? Would anyone have known who on earth he was talking about?
The unfortunate reality is that this frenzied attraction to rugby is not likely to diminish in the short-term. The emperor may be wearing no clothes but the public have decided that doesn't matter – they all love the no clothes look. It's a topic everyone can be an expert on without risking ridicule, because the narratives are so consistent everyone can keep up. Complexities are airbrushed out of the conversation. And now there's even reason to celebrate. Against all the odds Ireland have managed to produce a victorious international team to parade alongside our triumphant provinces who regularly trample all over their opponents in grossly imbalanced competitions. The resulting hysteria is frightening.
Don't be a hater.
Wow. Just...wow. What a magnificently entertaining stream of (mostly) nonsense. Well done that man.
Rugby is a triumph of marketing, or should I say morketing, over common sense.
Fantastic article. Nail on the head.
It's a horseshit article by someone who is, I assume from the website it's on, a soccer man and can't abide the fact that the Irish (all Irish by the way) rugby team has overtaken the Irish soccer team in the consciousness of the general public. He has a point about the media attention, and despite recent developments in the spread of rugby, D4 and media outlets based in the capital will be naturally swayed towards Rugby.
I want to see did he do a similar article about the various olé, olé bandwagons especially the last one in Poland. Did he give out about 'The Boys in Green' spreads all over the papers? Did he lambast people who haven't a clue about soccer going on about Keano, Trap and the rest? Did he balk back in the day when Ireland met the Pope in Italia 90? If he did, then at least he's consistent, but I suspect he didn't because he thinks soccer is the game that people should be in thrall to, not that nasty posh rugby. If he drove down to Offaly now and saw the West Offaly Lions playing rugby in the heart of GAA country, maybe he'd realise this rugby thing has actually taken root.
They;re all fighting for second place behind the GAA in the battle for hearts and minds though!
Totally agree AZ
When is the last time a team from Ireland in any sport won something? And made up from the 32 counties?
Not talking about qualification for something, but apart from the Irish Rugby team, has any other team given us the chance to celebrate a national win in the past 40,50,60 years? I can be corrected on that one.
The only ones I can recall celebrating are local or individual sports - Down, Armagh, Ulster, Leinster, Munster, Rory, GMac, Harrington, Clarke, Katie Taylor.
So why not let us grab our banjo and jump on the bandwagon? - if the Irish T20 cricket team beat the Netherlands today to qualify for the super 10 stage and end up winning it, my legs will be dangling off the back of the wagon, and I will be whistling Ireland's Call.
They should all be knighted by the Queen.
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on March 21, 2014, 09:23:32 AM
Totally agree AZ
When is the last time a team from Ireland in any sport won something? And made up from the 32 counties?
Not talking about qualification for something, but apart from the Irish Rugby team, has any other team given us the chance to celebrate a national win in the past 40,50,60 years? I can be corrected on that one.
The only ones I can recall celebrating are local or individual sports - Down, Armagh, Ulster, Leinster, Munster, Rory, GMac, Harrington, Clarke, Katie Taylor.
So why not let us grab our banjo and jump on the bandwagon? - if the Irish T20 cricket team beat the Netherlands today to qualify for the super 10 stage and end up winning it, my legs will be dangling off the back of the wagon, and I will be whistling Ireland's Call.
Edit on last post - not including the compromise rules, which isn't really a competitive scenario involving more than two teams!
Quote from: laoislad on March 21, 2014, 09:30:33 AM
They should all be knighted by the Queen.
I think you wrote that Laoislad :D
Quote from: laoislad on March 21, 2014, 09:30:33 AM
They should all be knighted by the Queen.
Surely that would contradict the 32 county ethos?
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on March 21, 2014, 09:23:32 AM
Totally agree AZ
When is the last time a team from Ireland in any sport won something? And made up from the 32 counties?
Not talking about qualification for something, but apart from the Irish Rugby team, has any other team given us the chance to celebrate a national win in the past 40,50,60 years? I can be corrected on that one.
The only ones I can recall celebrating are local or individual sports - Down, Armagh, Ulster, Leinster, Munster, Rory, GMac, Harrington, Clarke, Katie Taylor.
So why not let us grab our banjo and jump on the bandwagon? - if the Irish T20 cricket team beat the Netherlands today to qualify for the super 10 stage and end up winning it, my legs will be dangling off the back of the wagon, and I will be whistling Ireland's Call.
I agree with most of your sentiment, but not that last bit, that's just too much!
I like watching rugby, especially the international stuff, not so much the Rabo 12 and all that as it in my mind doesn't have the same competitive edge, due to them all being francises of one hue or another.
I've dabbled at playing rugby and have a basic knowledge of the rules and some of the tactics involved, but to the ordinary joe soap would all be just big men running into each other (although England do play that way ;D ) and hoping for the best, which could be boring enough. The intricacies are lost and with it is part of the enjoyment.
I would struggle to sit through ninety minutes of even the biggest of super sundays fed to us on Sky, that's not to say there are other who love it to bits, but I'd prefer to go over the hedge to watch a junior hurling match.
Each to their own.
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on March 21, 2014, 09:33:15 AM
Quote from: laoislad on March 21, 2014, 09:30:33 AM
They should all be knighted by the Queen.
Surely that would contradict the 32 county ethos?
Well at least make them all MBE's they deserve that surely.....
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on March 21, 2014, 09:23:32 AM
Totally agree AZ
When is the last time a team from Ireland in any sport won something? And made up from the 32 counties?
Not talking about qualification for something, but apart from the Irish Rugby team, has any other team given us the chance to celebrate a national win in the past 40,50,60 years? I can be corrected on that one.
The only ones I can recall celebrating are local or individual sports - Down, Armagh, Ulster, Leinster, Munster, Rory, GMac, Harrington, Clarke, Katie Taylor.
So why not let us grab our banjo and jump on the bandwagon? - if the Irish T20 cricket team beat the Netherlands today to qualify for the super 10 stage and end up winning it, my legs will be dangling off the back of the wagon, and I will be whistling Ireland's Call.
BBB, you're sofull of shit, you didn't celebrate Armagh winning anything ye lying Down fecker :P
Ah, this old thread... Nothing has changed - rugby is still a load of bollix.
Quote from: BennyCake on March 21, 2014, 09:55:47 AM
Ah, this old thread... Nothing has changed - rugby is still a load of bollix.
(http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/attachments/off-topics/24056d1307465587-food-dyes-bad-poison-haters-gon-hate-boss.jpg)
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on March 21, 2014, 09:23:32 AM
When is the last time a team from Ireland in any sport won something?
(http://img.rasset.ie/00049eda-642.jpg)
Quote from: laoislad on March 21, 2014, 10:33:20 AM
Quote from: BarryBreensBandage on March 21, 2014, 09:23:32 AM
When is the last time a team from Ireland in any sport won something?
(http://img.rasset.ie/00049eda-642.jpg)
Even Keane looks embarrassed lifting that
Is that the only trophy Da Repubbalik has ever won?
(And what is it?)
I'm sure they won a triangular tournament in Iceland or somewhere when Jack Charlton was manager. That one is the ill-fated Carling NAtions CUp where Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland played a 'Celtic' tournament.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 11:12:20 AM
I'm sure they won a triangular tournament in Iceland or somewhere when Jack Charlton was manager. That one is the ill-fated Carling NAtions CUp where Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland played a 'Celtic' tournament.
I remember that now (the triangular cup). Wan't that the tournament that caused the banishment of David O'Leary for failing to turn up?
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 09:22:09 AM
It's a horseshit article by someone who is, I assume from the website it's on, a soccer man and can't abide the fact that the Irish (all Irish by the way) rugby team has overtaken the Irish soccer team in the consciousness of the general public.
I don't recall the country ever being bedecked in flags, bunting and inflatable plastic hammers for a rugby match.
True the rugby bandwagon hasn't reached the levels the Irish soccer bandwagon reached yet. However my point is that today this guy feels pissed that the rugby team are getting more public 'love' than the soccer team. And slating the attention rugby is getting is hypocritical unless he also slates the bandwagon element of soccer.
Realistically Ireland won't be winning the Euros or World Cup. Having said that, the soccer team has won the same amount of competitions that the rugby team has this last 30 years.
Those who pointed out that the Celtic Tiger was a sham were told to "go and commit suicide" by Bertie Ahern.
Garda whistleblowers Maurice McCabe and John Wilson were called "disgusting" by Martin Callinan.
We who blow the whistle on this rugby sham have suffered in our personal lives. We have been vilified by the unthinking herd.
We must retain our integrity. We must continue to speak out and expose the truth.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 11:35:11 AM
True the rugby bandwagon hasn't reached the levels the Irish soccer bandwagon reached yet. However my point is that today this guy feels pissed that the rugby team are getting more public 'love' than the soccer team. And slating the attention rugby is getting is hypocritical unless he also slates the bandwagon element of soccer.
Association football is a sport, requiring actual skill. Rugby union football requires no skill, and therefore is not a sport.
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 11:46:04 AM
Those who pointed out that the Celtic Tiger was a sham were told to "go and commit suicide" by Bertie Ahern.
Garda whistleblowers Maurice McCabe and John Wilson were called "disgusting" by Martin Callinan.
We who blow the whistle on this rugby sham have suffered in our personal lives. We have been vilified by the unthinking herd.
We must retain our integrity. We must continue to speak out and expose the truth.
There's a breach of Godwin's Law in there somewhere...
If the soccer team had of been part of a tournament that had only 5 teams in it for the majority of it's existence I'm sure they won have won it a few times as well.
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 11:48:58 AM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 11:35:11 AM
True the rugby bandwagon hasn't reached the levels the Irish soccer bandwagon reached yet. However my point is that today this guy feels pissed that the rugby team are getting more public 'love' than the soccer team. And slating the attention rugby is getting is hypocritical unless he also slates the bandwagon element of soccer.
Association football is a sport, requiring actual skill. Rugby union football requires no skill, and therefore is not a sport.
What a load of nonsense!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wN4Lyx7zYLs
Just because it's a different game doesn't mean there is any less skill involved!!
Quote from: laoislad on March 21, 2014, 11:51:48 AM
If the soccer team had of been part of a tournament that had only 5 teams in it for the majority of it's existence I'm sure they won have won it a few times as well.
I hate agreeing with you LL, but...
Quote from: BennyCake on March 21, 2014, 11:55:51 AM
Quote from: laoislad on March 21, 2014, 11:51:48 AM
If the soccer team had of been part of a tournament that had only 5 teams in it for the majority of it's existence I'm sure they won have won it a few times as well.
I hate agreeing with you LL, but...
I hate that you agree with me.
Quote from: screenexile on March 21, 2014, 11:55:05 AM
Just because it's a different game doesn't mean there is any less skill involved!!
Pushing and lying on the ground in a heap are not skills.
Quote from: laoislad on March 21, 2014, 11:51:48 AM
If the soccer team had of been part of a tournament that had only 5 teams in it for the majority of it's existence I'm sure they won have won it a few times as well.
I agree with you too, but is that really the point? the rugby team is successful now. Irish people (and all people really) love a good bandwagon, so rugby is the sport du jour. If Ireland get going in soccer again, the papers will be full of Olé Olés before you know it.
The key to coming across as being knowledgeable about rugby depends on the amount of jargon you can throw into conversations. I hereby give you, the reader, a crash ball course in fluent rogbish for those awkward water cooler moments. Despite the following being a load of utter gibberish, you'll come across as an expert - because none of the so called "rugby fans" you'll be talking to have a clue abut the game.
Ireland's win was a result of all the work they've done on the training paddock. In a tactic that was referenced by POC at the traditional Captain's Run on Friday, their choke tackles and can openers created space for the jackals to run through. They were also dominant at the breakdown and set pieces. Our groundhogs worked hard to forage and recycle and avoided being pinged for their hoovering, refused to give up cheap yards, and used the pick and go and truck and trailor with success. They also got the bind very effectively at scrum time which enabled Conor Murray to use his lovely soft hands to make a pop pass to the broken field runners or to Jonny Sexton who was sitting in the pocket. Jonny's game has really benefitted since he pitched up in the Top Quatorze. It's just as well Ireland won as the sword of Damocles would have been out for Joe Schmidt if they'd lost.
Quote from: laoislad on March 21, 2014, 11:51:48 AM
If the soccer team had of been part of a tournament that had only 5 teams in it for the majority of it's existence I'm sure they won have won it a few times as well.
The same could be said of the provincial hurling championships.
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 11:57:34 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 21, 2014, 11:55:05 AM
Just because it's a different game doesn't mean there is any less skill involved!!
Pushing and lying on the ground in a heap are not skills.
Whereas diving to the ground and rolling about as if you've been shot is considered a skill in soccer.
Quote from: deiseach on March 21, 2014, 12:18:29 PM
Quote from: laoislad on March 21, 2014, 11:51:48 AM
If the soccer team had of been part of a tournament that had only 5 teams in it for the majority of it's existence I'm sure they won have won it a few times as well.
The same could be said of the provincial hurling championships.
Be careful deiseach, you might be bordering on criticizing the 'GREATEST.GAME.EVER!!!!!'
Quote from: brokencrossbar1 on March 21, 2014, 12:40:33 PM
Be careful deiseach, you might be bordering on criticizing the 'GREATEST.GAME.EVER!!!!!™'
Fixed that for you.
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 12:07:28 PM
The key to coming across as being knowledgeable about rugby depends on the amount of jargon you can throw into conversations. I hereby give you, the reader, a crash ball course in fluent rogbish for those awkward water cooler moments. Despite the following being a load of utter gibberish, you'll come across as an expert - because none of the so called "rugby fans" you'll be talking to have a clue abut the game.
Ireland's win was a result of all the work they've done on the training paddock. In a tactic that was referenced by POC at the traditional Captain's Run on Friday, their choke tackles and can openers created space for the jackals to run through. They were also dominant at the breakdown and set pieces. Our groundhogs worked hard to forage and recycle and avoided being pinged for their hoovering, refused to give up cheap yards, and used the pick and go and truck and trailor with success. They also got the bind very effectively at scrum time which enabled Conor Murray to use his lovely soft hands to make a pop pass to the broken field runners or to Jonny Sexton who was sitting in the pocket. Jonny's game has really benefitted since he pitched up in the Top Quatorze. It's just as well Ireland won as the sword of Damocles would have been out for Joe Schmidt if they'd lost.
That's brilliant... truck and trailer with succcess!
The equivalent of telling our GAA players to pick the ball straight off the ground with success!
You'll always get bandwagon jumpers, but if Ireland won the rugby World Cup, I still wouldn't give two fiddlers frig about it. I wouldn't even watch it if they won it.
I think a hell of a lot of rugby "followers" don't even know the rules or even played or been to a game. Maybe it's all about being patriotic or something. I couldn't give a toss. Why would I? I, like most people, have absolutely no connection to the game. In fact, I would go as far to say I want to see them beat in every match. Even against England.
I still can't figure out how a man from Trillick is such an expert on the 6 Nations thread!!
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 21, 2014, 01:07:21 PM
I still can't figure out how a man from Trillick is such an expert on the 6 Nations thread!!
Maybe he lined out for Clogher Valley in his day!!
Quote from: BennyCake on March 21, 2014, 01:05:07 PM
You'll always get bandwagon jumpers, but if Ireland won the rugby World Cup, I still wouldn't give two fiddlers frig about it. I wouldn't even watch it if they won it.
I think a hell of a lot of rugby "followers" don't even know the rules or even played or been to a game. Maybe it's all about being patriotic or something. I couldn't give a toss. Why would I? I, like most people, have absolutely no connection to the game. In fact, I would go as far to say I want to see them beat in every match. Even against England.
Why would you want to see them lose though? I presume you have little or no interest in show jumping, cricket or hockey but do you want to see those Irish teams lose?
Quote from: johnneycool on March 21, 2014, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 21, 2014, 01:07:21 PM
I still can't figure out how a man from Trillick is such an expert on the 6 Nations thread!!
Maybe he lined out for Clogher Valley in his day!!
Quote from: johnneycool on March 21, 2014, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 21, 2014, 01:07:21 PM
I still can't figure out how a man from Trillick is such an expert on the 6 Nations thread!!
Maybe he lined out for Clogher Valley in his day!!
Exactly!! I played in that bog a few times, and rugby is one thing they are not well versed for.
Quote from: BennyCake on March 21, 2014, 01:05:07 PM
You'll always get bandwagon jumpers, but if Ireland won the rugby World Cup, I still wouldn't give two fiddlers frig about it. I wouldn't even watch it if they won it.
I think a hell of a lot of rugby "followers" don't even know the rules or even played or been to a game. Maybe it's all about being patriotic or something. I couldn't give a toss. Why would I? I, like most people, have absolutely no connection to the game. In fact, I would go as far to say I want to see them beat in every match. Even against England.
+1.
Thank God there's at least 2 of us sane in this Country.
Quote from: BennyCake on March 21, 2014, 01:05:07 PM
You'll always get bandwagon jumpers, but if Ireland won the rugby World Cup, I still wouldn't give two fiddlers frig about it. I wouldn't even watch it if they won it.
I think a hell of a lot of rugby "followers" don't even know the rules or even played or been to a game. Maybe it's all about being patriotic or something. I couldn't give a toss. Why would I? I, like most people, have absolutely no connection to the game. In fact, I would go as far to say I want to see them beat in every match. Even against England.
So you want to see Ireland lose at sports you have no connection with?
What a strange and bitter attitude to have.
Quote from: Zulu on March 21, 2014, 01:30:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 21, 2014, 01:05:07 PM
You'll always get bandwagon jumpers, but if Ireland won the rugby World Cup, I still wouldn't give two fiddlers frig about it. I wouldn't even watch it if they won it.
I think a hell of a lot of rugby "followers" don't even know the rules or even played or been to a game. Maybe it's all about being patriotic or something. I couldn't give a toss. Why would I? I, like most people, have absolutely no connection to the game. In fact, I would go as far to say I want to see them beat in every match. Even against England.
Why would you want to see them lose though? I presume you have little or no interest in show jumping, cricket or hockey but do you want to see those Irish teams lose?
Going back to that article posted earlier, because it is hyped up beyond belief. The way the game is portrayed, it's like this unbelievable spectacle. It's a terrible game, worse than American Football, and it's brutal!
Like the others you mentioned, it's an elitist sport played by the upper classes. That's reason enough to want them to lose.
Quote from: BennyCake on March 21, 2014, 01:50:00 PM
Quote from: Zulu on March 21, 2014, 01:30:36 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 21, 2014, 01:05:07 PM
You'll always get bandwagon jumpers, but if Ireland won the rugby World Cup, I still wouldn't give two fiddlers frig about it. I wouldn't even watch it if they won it.
I think a hell of a lot of rugby "followers" don't even know the rules or even played or been to a game. Maybe it's all about being patriotic or something. I couldn't give a toss. Why would I? I, like most people, have absolutely no connection to the game. In fact, I would go as far to say I want to see them beat in every match. Even against England.
Why would you want to see them lose though? I presume you have little or no interest in show jumping, cricket or hockey but do you want to see those Irish teams lose?
Going back to that article posted earlier, because it is hyped up beyond belief. The way the game is portrayed, it's like this unbelievable spectacle. It's a terrible game, worse than American Football, and it's brutal!
Like the others you mentioned, it's an elitist sport played by the upper classes. That's reason enough to want them to lose.
"Like the others you mentioned, it's an elitist sport played by the upper classes. That's reason enough to want them to lose."
Thats a tired old cliche trotted out by those who know nothing of the game today.
If you don't like the game and think its brutal,then fair enough,but if you're going to air opinions on it at least try to sound like you know what you're talking about.
The above outdated and frankly bullsh1t sentiment is similar to other people saying GAA is only played by muck savages down the country.Or soccer is only played by scumbags in Dublin.
I watched my nephew represent my old school in the Connacht cup on Wednesday against Roscommon.Neither team had ever been in the final before and there was no rugby played at my school only 10 years ago.
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 21, 2014, 01:36:55 PM
Quote from: johnneycool on March 21, 2014, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 21, 2014, 01:07:21 PM
I still can't figure out how a man from Trillick is such an expert on the 6 Nations thread!!
Maybe he lined out for Clogher Valley in his day!!
Quote from: johnneycool on March 21, 2014, 01:17:06 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 21, 2014, 01:07:21 PM
I still can't figure out how a man from Trillick is such an expert on the 6 Nations thread!!
Maybe he lined out for Clogher Valley in his day!!
Exactly!! I played in that bog a few times, and rugby is one thing they are not well versed for.
Big weekend for Clogher Valley this weekend, they play Wanderers in the Round Robin in Lansdowne Rd. Winners of the Round Robin get promoted to the AIL.
Kimbap, many sports are played in schools these days, and even when I was at school. But it's mainly those who attend private colleges that go on to play at a high level. ie, you need to be a toff.
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 12:07:28 PM
The key to coming across as being knowledgeable about rugby depends on the amount of jargon you can throw into conversations. I hereby give you, the reader, a crash ball course in fluent rogbish for those awkward water cooler moments. Despite the following being a load of utter gibberish, you'll come across as an expert - because none of the so called "rugby fans" you'll be talking to have a clue abut the game.
Ireland's win was a result of all the work they've done on the training paddock. In a tactic that was referenced by POC at the traditional Captain's Run on Friday, their choke tackles and can openers created space for the jackals to run through. They were also dominant at the breakdown and set pieces. Our groundhogs worked hard to forage and recycle and avoided being pinged for their hoovering, refused to give up cheap yards, and used the pick and go and truck and trailor with success. They also got the bind very effectively at scrum time which enabled Conor Murray to use his lovely soft hands to make a pop pass to the broken field runners or to Jonny Sexton who was sitting in the pocket. Jonny's game has really benefitted since he pitched up in the Top Quatorze. It's just as well Ireland won as the sword of Damocles would have been out for Joe Schmidt if they'd lost.
No Sidney, the key to success of being knowledgeable involves knowing what you are talking about Something which you clearly don't.
Truck and trailer is not something you can use successfully, it is an infringement causing offside that you get penalised for.
Johnny Sexton's game has not improved from moving to Paris, in fact he is looking jaded as he plays considerably more matches. Everyone interested in Irish rugby knows he would benefit more from being back home and managed and sheltered by the IRFU.
Again, Sexton - unlike many fly-half's does not spend a lot of time in the pocket but tends to play flat up on the line, which is precisely why he has been able to score 4 tries in the tournament (more than any other fly-half)
The choke tackles did not create space for anyone to run through. the choke tackle brings play to a halt and allows a scrum restart (in Ireland's favor if done right)
No one says Connor Murray has soft hands - why the hell would a scrum half want a soft touch???? - Hello!! knock-ons everywhere!!
Seriously, you know nothing about this sport and as such have very little credibility to attack it. You also make a fool of yourself with such blatantly ignorant comments. So go ahead, wander on down to a rugby match and quote some of that garbage and see how knowledgeable it makes you sound? See how knowledgeable you feel when they are all laughing their tits of at you.
Quote from: BennyCake on March 21, 2014, 02:19:25 PM
Kimbap, many sports are played in schools these days, and even when I was at school. But it's mainly those who attend private colleges that go on to play at a high level. ie, you need to be a toff.
Yeah, Sean O'Brien is a toff. And John Hayes is a toff, and sure you can see Keith Earls from Moyross, big toff. I think the professional era has knocked that on the head all over the country, and I'm not sure even in the amateur days I'd have been calling lads from the Island field in Limerick toffs.
Quote from: BennyCake on March 21, 2014, 02:19:25 PM
Kimbap, many sports are played in schools these days, and even when I was at school. But it's mainly those who attend private colleges that go on to play at a high level. ie, you need to be a toff.
Ah look,we'll leave it at that so.
You are either genuinely ignorant or on a wind up,either way im not interested.
BOD's parents were/are both doctors as far as I know.
That doesnt make them toffs to me. I'd say they are middle class and have done well for themselves (through hard work).
Sounds like someone has a chip on their shoulder.
Quote from: PAULD123 on March 21, 2014, 02:24:12 PM
Seriously, you know nothing about this sport and as such have very little credibility to attack it. You also make a fool of yourself with such blatantly ignorant comments. So go ahead, wander on down to a rugby match and quote some of that garbage and see how knowledgeable it makes you sound? See how knowledgeable you feel when they are all laughing their tits of at you.
Thinly veiled "most rugby fans are either women or have man boobs".
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 02:24:58 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on March 21, 2014, 02:19:25 PM
Kimbap, many sports are played in schools these days, and even when I was at school. But it's mainly those who attend private colleges that go on to play at a high level. ie, you need to be a toff.
Yeah, Sean O'Brien is a toff. And John Hayes is a toff, and sure you can see Keith Earls from Moyross, big toff. I think the professional era has knocked that on the head all over the country, and I'm not sure even in the amateur days I'd have been calling lads from the Island field in Limerick toffs.
Wow. Three. It's like saying that rugby in South Africa is not a white game, because look at Bryan Habana, the Beast and Chester Williams.
OK, donnahca Ryan from Nenagh, Peter Clohessy, the Currow Lads. Do I have to keep going?
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 21, 2014, 02:36:50 PM
BOD's parents were/are both doctors as far as I know.
That doesnt make them toffs to me. I'd say they are middle class and have done well for themselves (through hard work).
Sounds like someone has a chip on their shoulder.
BOD had your average, normal upbringing, with two parents doctors, living in Clontarf and going to Blackrock College. Your average, normal upbringing, the same as everybody else.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 02:51:57 PM
OK, donnahca Ryan from Nenagh, Peter Clohessy, the Currow Lads. Do I have to keep going?
Yes.
Because I can come up with a list of names far longer than you can.
Did the two parents just get elevated to being Doctors? Picked out of a lottery?
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 02:53:37 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 02:51:57 PM
OK, donnahca Ryan from Nenagh, Peter Clohessy, the Currow Lads. Do I have to keep going?
Yes.
Because I can come up with a list of names far longer than you can.
So you can come up with a long list of Toffs, and I can come up with a list of lads who I certainly wouldn't call toffs. That would almost make it a game everyone can play!
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 02:51:57 PM
OK, donnahca Ryan from Nenagh, Peter Clohessy, the Currow Lads. Do I have to keep going?
The Claw wasn't particularly refined but he was no working class hero. His family were millionaires!
Did quite a number of Dublin lads from Kilmacud not attend Blackrock??
Mark Vaughan went there ffs!!!
True, but hardly a toff.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 02:56:38 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 02:53:37 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 02:51:57 PM
OK, donnahca Ryan from Nenagh, Peter Clohessy, the Currow Lads. Do I have to keep going?
Yes.
Because I can come up with a list of names far longer than you can.
So you can come up with a long list of Toffs, and I can come up with a list of lads who I certainly wouldn't call toffs. That would almost make it a game everyone can play!
Can you name me somebody from a working class area of Dublin who has played international rugby?
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 03:03:00 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 02:56:38 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 02:53:37 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 02:51:57 PM
OK, donnahca Ryan from Nenagh, Peter Clohessy, the Currow Lads. Do I have to keep going?
Yes.
Because I can come up with a list of names far longer than you can.
So you can come up with a long list of Toffs, and I can come up with a list of lads who I certainly wouldn't call toffs. That would almost make it a game everyone can play!
Can you name me somebody from a working class area of Dublin who has played international rugby?
Trevor Brennan
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 21, 2014, 03:01:31 PM
Did quite a number of Dublin lads from Kilmacud not attend Blackrock??
Mark Vaughan went there ffs!!!
He did,played soccer with them aswell. Scored a goal against Pats Cavan in the final Irish Schools Cup Final in Belfield.
Don't think there was many other lads from Kilmacud there though.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 02:24:58 PM
And John Hayes is a toff,
John Hayes never played rugby until he was 18.
That really demonstrates what a skilful game rugby is. You never played until you were 18, and yet still end up winning over 100 international caps.
John probably walked down to Bruff RFC for his first training session and asked, "what do I do?"
"Push, lad, push", answers the coach.
#skillsetz
First of all it was said you 'have to be a toff'. I pointed out a couple from my knowledge, of which there are several more I know off the top of my head where you wouldn't say 'toff'. You seem to somehow have morphed that into 'no working class inner city Dub' has played international rugby. I have no idea if they did or not. Maybe they didn't, maybe Rugby isn't as popular in working class areas of Dublin, I don't know.
All I said was that you didn't have to be a toff to play or succeed at rugby, and I gave you a couple of examples. And there wouldn't be many more working class areas than Moyross, or does Earls not count because he's from Limerick?
Rugby, especially in Dublin, had a problem with exclusion/inclusion, not a doubt about it. But I think the spread of professionalism, and the popularity of rugby, have meant that a lot more people are playing it. I don't know if working class Dublin has or has not started.
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 03:09:44 PM
Quote from: Tubberman on March 21, 2014, 03:04:24 PM
Trevor Brennan
Not from Dublin.
why has this now turned into 'Dublin'. That wasn't the original comment. If that's what you or Benny meant, why not say "You can't play rugby at international level if you are from inner city Dublin"
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 02:51:57 PM
OK, donnahca Ryan from Nenagh, Peter Clohessy, the Currow Lads. Do I have to keep going?
D'arcy is from Wexford and the fullback and the brother are from Louth. Wasn't Popplewell from Gorey as well ?
If they left it to the toffs they'd never win anything. Look what those lads did to the banks.
Look at how Trevor Brennan was frozen out by Leinster. His type weren't welcome there.
AZ, they're not going to engage with what you are saying.
Quote from: deiseach on March 21, 2014, 03:17:20 PM
AZ, they're not going to engage with what you are saying.
I know that. I should know better I suppose.
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2014, 03:15:50 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 02:51:57 PM
OK, donnahca Ryan from Nenagh, Peter Clohessy, the Currow Lads. Do I have to keep going?
D'arcy is from Wexford and the fullback and the brother are from Louth. Wasn't Popplewell from Gorey as well ?
If they left it to the toffs they'd never win anything. Look what those lads did to the banks.
D'Arcy: Blackrock College Holy Ghost Fathers
Kearney: Clongowes Wood College Jesuit Fathers
Popplewell: Newtown School Waterford Religious Society of Friends*
*Not a reference to the US comedy series, for any female rugby fans reading.
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 03:19:59 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 21, 2014, 03:17:20 PM
AZ, they're not going to engage with what you are saying.
I know that. I should know better I suppose.
You and me both ;)
Quote from: take_yer_points on March 21, 2014, 12:31:09 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 11:57:34 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 21, 2014, 11:55:05 AM
Just because it's a different game doesn't mean there is any less skill involved!!
Pushing and lying on the ground in a heap are not skills.
Whereas diving to the ground and rolling about as if you've been shot is considered a skill in soccer.
Association football has a far greater "culture of respect" than rugby.
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 03:24:24 PM
Quote from: take_yer_points on March 21, 2014, 12:31:09 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 11:57:34 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 21, 2014, 11:55:05 AM
Just because it's a different game doesn't mean there is any less skill involved!!
Pushing and lying on the ground in a heap are not skills.
Whereas diving to the ground and rolling about as if you've been shot is considered a skill in soccer.
Association football has a far greater "culture of respect" than rugby.
Ah here . . . are you joking??!!
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/27/article-2331762-1A024DE9000005DC-148_634x403.jpg)
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 03:24:24 PM
Quote from: take_yer_points on March 21, 2014, 12:31:09 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 11:57:34 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 21, 2014, 11:55:05 AM
Just because it's a different game doesn't mean there is any less skill involved!!
Pushing and lying on the ground in a heap are not skills.
Whereas diving to the ground and rolling about as if you've been shot is considered a skill in soccer.
Association football has a far greater "culture of respect" than rugby.
Respect for who? And who shows this respect?
Is there a lack of respect in rugby do you think? Again, towards who and from who?
Quote from: screenexile on March 21, 2014, 03:29:16 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 03:24:24 PM
Association football has a far greater "culture of respect" than rugby.
Ah here . . . are you joking??!!
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/27/article-2331762-1A024DE9000005DC-148_634x403.jpg)
Were those union jacks left behind from when the IRFU used to still fly them at Lansdowne Road until the late 1920s?
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 03:24:24 PM
Quote from: take_yer_points on March 21, 2014, 12:31:09 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 11:57:34 AM
Quote from: screenexile on March 21, 2014, 11:55:05 AM
Just because it's a different game doesn't mean there is any less skill involved!!
Pushing and lying on the ground in a heap are not skills.
Whereas diving to the ground and rolling about as if you've been shot is considered a skill in soccer.
Association football has a far greater "culture of respect" than rugby.
And boom goes the dynamite.
Quote from: take_yer_points on March 21, 2014, 03:32:28 PM
Respect for who? And who shows this respect?
Is there a lack of respect in rugby do you think? Again, towards who and from who?
Are eye gouging, stamping, biting, punching, headbutting, kicking, raking, elbowing and holding a player upside down and violently forcing his head into the ground common incidents in association football?
I think that's what you call a better class of thuggery.
Quote from: deiseach on March 21, 2014, 03:21:46 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 03:19:59 PM
Quote from: deiseach on March 21, 2014, 03:17:20 PM
AZ, they're not going to engage with what you are saying.
I know that. I should know better I suppose.
You and me both ;)
Ah don't stop now, fellas. I'm enjoying this hugely.
The route from "you have to be a toff" to "you can't come from inner city Dublin" to play for Ireland, along with the stopping points along the way, has been one of the most scenic logical tours I've taken around this board in a good while.
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 03:36:55 PM
Quote from: take_yer_points on March 21, 2014, 03:32:28 PM
Respect for who? And who shows this respect?
Is there a lack of respect in rugby do you think? Again, towards who and from who?
Are eye gouging, stamping, biting, punching, headbutting, kicking, raking, elbowing and holding a player upside down and violently forcing his head into the ground common incidents in association football?
I think that's what you call a better class of thuggery.
Ah, so you're using respect between both sets of players. Do you think "eye gouging, stamping, biting, punching, headbutting, kicking, raking, elbowing and holding a player upside down and violently forcing his head into the ground common incidents" don't happen in soccer? Ok, maybe the last one would be a tough example to show you in soccer but in it's place I give you Roy Keane.
What about respect towards officials?
What about respect from officials?
What about respect from fans?
I once got a rash off a girl who followed Leinster Rugby.
Quote from: take_yer_points on March 21, 2014, 03:45:17 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 03:36:55 PM
Quote from: take_yer_points on March 21, 2014, 03:32:28 PM
Respect for who? And who shows this respect?
Is there a lack of respect in rugby do you think? Again, towards who and from who?
Are eye gouging, stamping, biting, punching, headbutting, kicking, raking, elbowing and holding a player upside down and violently forcing his head into the ground common incidents in association football?
I think that's what you call a better class of thuggery.
Ah, so you're using respect between both sets of players. Do you think "eye gouging, stamping, biting, punching, headbutting, kicking, raking, elbowing and holding a player upside down and violently forcing his head into the ground common incidents" don't happen in soccer? Ok, maybe the last one would be a tough example to show you in soccer but in it's place I give you Roy Keane.
What about respect towards officials?
What about respect from officials?
What about respect from fans?
Which sport has a greater culture of serious and deliberate foul play?
there is a lot more cross pollination in sports around dublin these days - I hear Blackrock have a Gaelic team these days as do a lot of the other rugby oriented schools - lot of good work on the ground from evangelist coaches. goes both ways as well, rugby teams are sprouting up in areas you wouldn't associate it with - for instance there have been coaching courses in areas like Fettercairn, as well as the LSC games being played in Tallaght stadium.
All to the good, AFAIC, the skills of the games are complementary and give players that bit extra in both(or the three!) codes - GAA rugby crossovers include John Hayes, Philip Danaher, David Beggy, David Hickey, Keith Wood, Mick Galway, Johnny Pilkington, Tomas O'Leary - and i think that lad Darren Sweetnam for Cork has been offered a place at Munster??
BTW, I think a player like Tony Ward would have been offended at being described as a toff - read some of his background in Alan English's book about Munster beating the All Blacks and he had a tough enough time of it - but not as tough as someone like Brendan Foley, another Ireland international.
Classic piece from Humpho here:
Drive the buggers underground
Can't live with them. Can't shoot them. Mainly can't live with them. Can't afford to live with them. Haven't the bloodlines to live with them. Haven't the patience to live with them. Haven't the language skills to live with them. Haven't the desire even. Rugby people have always been college scarves and jutting jaws and silly songs I don't know the words of.
C-A-N-N-O-T live with them.
Now, a quick word before we start. Every time I write one of my patented, bitter and twisted chip-on-the-shoulder social-cripple pieces about the rugby world, the same smug epistles hit the desk all the way from D4.
They tell me (surprise!) that I have a chip on my shoulder about rugby.
"You're like a little boy with his nose pressed up against the window – come on in and have a pinty, for croying out loud."
I know. I have a chip. Actually I like having a chip on my shoulder about rugby. It is my inalienable right. I will not have a pinty.
Thonks. I am happy as I am.
I don't like rugby and I work for The Irish Times. It's like being a day trader and working for Pravda.
Listen to this: I have tried. I have reached out to rugby. I have gone forth in a spirit of understanding and fellowship and attempted to break down the cultural barriers between rugby and myself.
For my troubles, I've had nothing but heartache and sorrow.
Let me tell you something I've never told anyone before. Once – and I am disappearing into a witness protection programme after the next full stop – I played half a season of under-19 rugby with Suttonians.
Next time, I'd choose to do my time in jail, as my co-accused did.
Despite being a Gaelic player, and therefore able to do some things most rugby people cannot do – ie, catch a ball, kick a ball, run, etc – I was press-ganged into being a second-row forward. This is like choosing to do a heavy lifting job in your spare time.
For a few months, I spent my time with my shoulder pushing the buttocks of other men and my arm reached up between their legs. Even after a lifetime in the Christian Brothers, I wasn't prepared for that.
My ears were always red and sore and my shoulders ached. Sometimes, to take my mind off all that, the opposing hooker would kindly give me a kick in the face.
That's how rugby people run the game and it's how they run the world.
I thrived only in lineouts, those strange masonic rituals wherein everybody uniformly mistimes their jump for some reason I couldn't initially understand. Clarification wasn't long in coming.
After two clean catches, the person opposing you in the lineout would just reach across and pull your hair. Beats gravity every time.
Hair-pulling wasn't a very manly thing to do, but neither was weeping: "Ref! Ref! He's pulling my hair." I learned to mistime my jump like everyone else.
For a while, I tried to bring several different coloured pairs of shorts to games in the hope that having the same coloured shorts as the opposition might save my testicles from being squeezed and twisted as we lay in panting heaps somewhere on top of the ball.
The biting and hair-pulling I could take. Ball-handling was a no-no – even from teams we played regularly. (Note: In the GAA testicles don't actually exist – except as a metaphor for guts. If a sliotar should whicker a tout vitesse into your testicular area, causing the 29 other players on the field to wince and you to double over squealing like a stuck pig, somebody will run on to the field, pour some water down your neck, slap your buttock and say: "C'mon son you'll be grand in a minute." This at a time when you need a general anaesthetic.)
Anyway it all finished between Suttonians and me one weekend when we played in a triangular tournament alongside the giants of the southside, Lansdowne and Blackrock.
Now most of the team I played with were actually quite good at rugby and had won the Harry Gale Cup (no less) the previous year. This didn't save us from being treated like bumpkins on our venture across the river.
It started with our kits, which were the same colours as Eason's bags, and it went on all afternoon, no matter who we played.
As luck would have it, on this Saturday morning we endured the sniggering of the Lansdowne chaps and then beat them on the back pitch – in Lansdowne. This rightly fouled up the tournament.
The plan had been that we would lose to Lansdowne in the morning and then obligingly lose to Blackrock in the afternoon, ensuring a Lansdowne versus Blackrock play-off in Stradbrook the next day. Now, we yoiks would be going to Stradbrook.
The story has a sad end. We met at noon the next day under the clock at Clerys.
Maybe two of us weren't hungover. The others were pukey or giggly or both.
The thought of perhaps beating Blackrock hadn't even kept them in for Saturday night.
Why would it? They didn't hate Blackrock the way normal people do. They admired them. So we got pushed around Stradbrook for the afternoon and were beaten by a margin in the region of 60 points.
In the secondrow it felt as if we were going to have our scrawny necks snapped like royal pheasants.
For this, I had given up on a Junior B football match with St Vincents? I was deeply ashamed. I never went back. Never told anybody except my spiritual advisor. He quit instantly.
I gave rugby one more chance. Arriving in UCD and not knowing a soul, I put my name down when some jut-jawed, scarf-wearing, acne-free, pinty-type, lady-killing bastard announced that there was to be a class rugby league "to break the old ice, loike".
I too would be an icebreaker! I filled out one of the little forms he gave out. I waited. The teams sheets went up on the lecture theatre wall. I skipped across like a happy little puppy. No T J Humphries listed. My eyes welled up. My heart welled down.
I sought out the jut-jawed, scarf-wearing, acne-free, gout-ridden, Dublin 4, bestiality-is-best-boys, pinty-type, lady-killing bastard and explained my position. Shome mishtake, shurley, I said.
His brow furrowed. "What's your name?" he asked. "Tom Humphries," I replied frankly. "Where'd you go to school?" he asked. "Fairview," I said. "Where's that?" he asked. (I should point out that his geographical ignorance was no worse than mine. I got off the bus at RTÉ on my first day in UCD.) "Where the park is," I said helpfully. The park was in the news regularly then for gay-bashing incidents. "Well that's it," he said breezily.
"The teams have all the 'Rock guys together, the 'Nure guys with the Belvo' boys, 'Zaga in with Clongowes, Mero with 'Knock and and so on. Roight? So sorry, but you lose out Humpho."
"Oh," I said. I'd scarcely understood a word, but realised I had come within an ace of being saddled with a dumb rugger nickname all my life.
I went forth and never sinned against my class or my people again.
There were other sad days in rugby's spiteful jihad against me.
I lied about rugby to get into sports journalism, pretended I loved it, but soon got found out. I misidentified Brendan Foley as Moss Keane at a charity game of old farts and didn't work again for three months.
I described King's Hospital, who haven't once won a small in-bred provincial competition like the Leinster Senior Cup, as the "whipping boys" of the event and the switchboards were jammed for a week by people who wanted to twist my testicles and pull my hair.
I was invited to a pre-match dinner for a fixture I was covering involving Lansdowne, but when I turned up and they realised I wasn't quite what they'd been expecting, I was banished to a broom cupboard and given a hot beef roll.
I know these stories may be very upsetting for some sensitive readers, and perhaps there should have been an appropriate warning at the top of the piece, but I can only hope that any distress caused will serve as a warning to others.
There has been enough hurt already. Stay away from rugby. It is a plague, sent to us – like the potato famine – to undermine the fabric of our society.
The depression-era justification for allowing rugby to prosper (ie, it's the only way most of these oafs will ever get jobs) is no longer sustainable.
The sport should be banned and driven underground.
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 03:36:55 PM
Quote from: take_yer_points on March 21, 2014, 03:32:28 PM
Respect for who? And who shows this respect?
Is there a lack of respect in rugby do you think? Again, towards who and from who?
Are eye gouging, stamping, biting, punching, headbutting, kicking, raking, elbowing and holding a player upside down and violently forcing his head into the ground common incidents in association football?
I think that's what you call a better class of thuggery.
Ah here now, theres no need to bring Suarez into this, he's a reformed character.
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 21, 2014, 03:58:56 PM
there is a lot more cross pollination in sports around dublin these days - I hear Blackrock have a Gaelic team these days as do a lot of the other rugby oriented schools - lot of good work on the ground from evangelist coaches. goes both ways as well, rugby teams are sprouting up in areas you wouldn't associate it with - for instance there have been coaching courses in areas like Fettercairn, as well as the LSC games being played in Tallaght stadium.
All to the good, AFAIC, the skills of the games are complementary and give players that bit extra in both(or the three!) codes - GAA rugby crossovers include John Hayes, Philip Danaher, David Beggy, David Hickey, Keith Wood, Mick Galway, Johnny Pilkington, Tomas O'Leary - and i think that lad Darren Sweetnam for Cork has been offered a place at Munster??
BTW, I think a player like Tony Ward would have been offended at being described as a toff - read some of his background in Alan English's book about Munster beating the All Blacks and he had a tough enough time of it - but not as tough as someone like Brendan Foley, another Ireland international.
While Gaelic football is not as skilful a game as hurling or association football, it is still a far superior game to rugby skill-wise and the vast majority of Gaelic football players at any kind of decent club standard could likely play rugby to a reasonably high level if they took up the game in their late teens or early 20s. The same cannot be said of the inverse.
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 03:21:17 PM
Quote from: seafoid on March 21, 2014, 03:15:50 PM
Quote from: AZOffaly on March 21, 2014, 02:51:57 PM
OK, donnahca Ryan from Nenagh, Peter Clohessy, the Currow Lads. Do I have to keep going?
D'arcy is from Wexford and the fullback and the brother are from Louth. Wasn't Popplewell from Gorey as well ?
If they left it to the toffs they'd never win anything. Look what those lads did to the banks.
D'Arcy: Blackrock College Holy Ghost Fathers
Kearney: Clongowes Wood College Jesuit Fathers
Popplewell: Newtown School Waterford Religious Society of Friends*
*Not a reference to the US comedy series, for any female rugby fans reading.
Good man Sidney
I would have 2 reservations about rugby
-concussion
and
-the strange body shape of the forwards
If fellas who went to Clongowes are able to beat NZ eventually I wouldn't mind but there is a freak aspect and a more consistently dangerous aspect to rugby
that you don't get in manly sports such as hurling.
Tom Humphries, a DPP file is awaiting him.
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 04:06:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 21, 2014, 03:58:56 PM
there is a lot more cross pollination in sports around dublin these days - I hear Blackrock have a Gaelic team these days as do a lot of the other rugby oriented schools - lot of good work on the ground from evangelist coaches. goes both ways as well, rugby teams are sprouting up in areas you wouldn't associate it with - for instance there have been coaching courses in areas like Fettercairn, as well as the LSC games being played in Tallaght stadium.
All to the good, AFAIC, the skills of the games are complementary and give players that bit extra in both(or the three!) codes - GAA rugby crossovers include John Hayes, Philip Danaher, David Beggy, David Hickey, Keith Wood, Mick Galway, Johnny Pilkington, Tomas O'Leary - and i think that lad Darren Sweetnam for Cork has been offered a place at Munster??
BTW, I think a player like Tony Ward would have been offended at being described as a toff - read some of his background in Alan English's book about Munster beating the All Blacks and he had a tough enough time of it - but not as tough as someone like Brendan Foley, another Ireland international.
While Gaelic football is not as skilful a game as hurling or association football, it is still a far superior game to rugby skill-wise and the vast majority of Gaelic football players at any kind of decent club standard could likely play rugby to a reasonably high level if they took up the game in their late teens or early 20s. The same cannot be said of the inverse.
Is this a good time to be opening another front?
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 04:06:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 21, 2014, 03:58:56 PM
there is a lot more cross pollination in sports around dublin these days - I hear Blackrock have a Gaelic team these days as do a lot of the other rugby oriented schools - lot of good work on the ground from evangelist coaches. goes both ways as well, rugby teams are sprouting up in areas you wouldn't associate it with - for instance there have been coaching courses in areas like Fettercairn, as well as the LSC games being played in Tallaght stadium.
All to the good, AFAIC, the skills of the games are complementary and give players that bit extra in both(or the three!) codes - GAA rugby crossovers include John Hayes, Philip Danaher, David Beggy, David Hickey, Keith Wood, Mick Galway, Johnny Pilkington, Tomas O'Leary - and i think that lad Darren Sweetnam for Cork has been offered a place at Munster??
BTW, I think a player like Tony Ward would have been offended at being described as a toff - read some of his background in Alan English's book about Munster beating the All Blacks and he had a tough enough time of it - but not as tough as someone like Brendan Foley, another Ireland international.
While Gaelic football is not as skilful a game as hurling or association football, it is still a far superior game to rugby skill-wise and the vast majority of Gaelic football players at any kind of decent club standard could likely play rugby to a reasonably high level if they took up the game in their late teens or early 20s. The same cannot be said of the inverse.
Your first sentence is subjective (having played three of these games at reasonable level, I'd argue that you need to master more skills in Gaelic football, hurling and rugby then in soccer - hence soccer's appeal) and your second sentence is just plain wrong. You can say the inverse - I'm doing it now. Darcy said himself during the week he was a hurling man before he changed schools - you telling me an athlete with his physical gifts couldn't have made it as a Wexford corner forward?
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 21, 2014, 04:15:51 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 04:06:27 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 21, 2014, 03:58:56 PM
there is a lot more cross pollination in sports around dublin these days - I hear Blackrock have a Gaelic team these days as do a lot of the other rugby oriented schools - lot of good work on the ground from evangelist coaches. goes both ways as well, rugby teams are sprouting up in areas you wouldn't associate it with - for instance there have been coaching courses in areas like Fettercairn, as well as the LSC games being played in Tallaght stadium.
All to the good, AFAIC, the skills of the games are complementary and give players that bit extra in both(or the three!) codes - GAA rugby crossovers include John Hayes, Philip Danaher, David Beggy, David Hickey, Keith Wood, Mick Galway, Johnny Pilkington, Tomas O'Leary - and i think that lad Darren Sweetnam for Cork has been offered a place at Munster??
BTW, I think a player like Tony Ward would have been offended at being described as a toff - read some of his background in Alan English's book about Munster beating the All Blacks and he had a tough enough time of it - but not as tough as someone like Brendan Foley, another Ireland international.
While Gaelic football is not as skilful a game as hurling or association football, it is still a far superior game to rugby skill-wise and the vast majority of Gaelic football players at any kind of decent club standard could likely play rugby to a reasonably high level if they took up the game in their late teens or early 20s. The same cannot be said of the inverse.
Your first sentence is subjective (having played three of these games at reasonable level, I'd argue that you need to master more skills in Gaelic football, hurling and rugby then in soccer - hence soccer's appeal) and your second sentence is just plain wrong. You can say the inverse - I'm doing it now. Darcy said himself during the week he was a hurling man before he changed schools - you telling me an athlete with his physical gifts couldn't have made it as a Wexford corner forward?
Not a chance in hell of Darcy playing corner forward for Wexford...
He couldn't see past that beard once the face guard came down
;D
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 21, 2014, 04:15:51 PM
Your first sentence is subjective (having played three of these games at reasonable level, I'd argue that you need to master more skills in Gaelic football, hurling and rugby then in soccer - hence soccer's appeal) and your second sentence is just plain wrong. You can say the inverse - I'm doing it now. Darcy said himself during the week he was a hurling man before he changed schools - you telling me an athlete with his physical gifts couldn't have made it as a Wexford corner forward?
Wexford don't play at a very high level these days, but no.
You will not make it in inter-county hurling if you spend more than a few years away from practising the basic skills.
You will not be able to play at any sort of decent level in association football if you have not been playing the game and developing your skills from childhood up.
You will not pick up a hurley for the first time at 13 or kick a ball for the first time at 13 and play top-level hurling or association football respectively.
Many international rugby players never played the game before secondary school.
You only have to look at the Irish team themselves to see the paucity in so called skill levels. Most forwards are literally unable to pass the ball more than two yards.
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 04:28:14 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 21, 2014, 04:15:51 PM
Your first sentence is subjective (having played three of these games at reasonable level, I'd argue that you need to master more skills in Gaelic football, hurling and rugby then in soccer - hence soccer's appeal) and your second sentence is just plain wrong. You can say the inverse - I'm doing it now. Darcy said himself during the week he was a hurling man before he changed schools - you telling me an athlete with his physical gifts couldn't have made it as a Wexford corner forward?
Wexford don't play at a very high level these days, but no.
You will not make it in inter-county hurling if you spend more than a few years away from practising the basic skills.
You will not be able to play at any sort of decent level in association football if you have not been playing the game and developing your skills from childhood up.
You will not pick up a hurley for the first time at 13 or kick a ball for the first time at 13 and play top-level hurling or association football respectively.
Many international rugby players never played the game before secondary school.
You only have to look at the Irish team themselves to see the paucity in so called skill levels. Most forwards are literally unable to pass the ball more than two yards.
Brian Lohan never made it onto the Clare minors or u21s but he was quite handy later. Elite sports performance can come late.
DJ Carey was "good enough to play soccer", as I read somewhere.
Rugby in Ireland is fairly laid back up to age 13-14. Then they start selecting. If a "lay" player turns up at 15 or 16 with the strength/speed and spatial awareness required he can be fast tracked.
If you read a few GAA biographies you can see that many of the players had choices in their late teens and could have ended up in other sports. A lot of the time it's the local sports culture that makes the difference.
Rugby is trying to widen the net now with development officers in more rural areas.
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 04:28:14 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 21, 2014, 04:15:51 PM
Your first sentence is subjective (having played three of these games at reasonable level, I'd argue that you need to master more skills in Gaelic football, hurling and rugby then in soccer - hence soccer's appeal) and your second sentence is just plain wrong. You can say the inverse - I'm doing it now. Darcy said himself during the week he was a hurling man before he changed schools - you telling me an athlete with his physical gifts couldn't have made it as a Wexford corner forward?
Wexford don't play at a very high level these days, but no.
You will not make it in inter-county hurling if you spend more than a few years away from practising the basic skills.
You will not be able to play at any sort of decent level in association football if you have not been playing the game and developing your skills from childhood up.
You will not pick up a hurley for the first time at 13 or kick a ball for the first time at 13 and play top-level hurling or association football respectively.
Many international rugby players never played the game before secondary school.
You only have to look at the Irish team themselves to see the paucity in so called skill levels. Most forwards are literally unable to pass the ball more than two yards.
Wexford play at a higher level than I suspect you ever played at, in any code - unless you'd care to enlighten us?
You refuse to define your level for association football - but the simple fact is that the skills of association football are the easiest to learn and practice by yourself with a ball (try practicing a lineout on your own, or hurling without a gable wall or handball alley, or high fielding on your own). Also with the prevalence of five a side games, most active athletes in any code would I'm sure able to give an account of themselves at your mysterious level - let's call it Leinster Senior league, will we?
As for picking up a hurley, the first time I picked one up seriously was three days after my 13th birthday, and I joined the hurling team in my secondary school to get out of class. Five years later I had two Dublin colleges A medals in my pocket, captaining the team from corner back. Maybe not the highest level in the world, but athleticism and an enthusiasm for violence can take you a long way! What about someone like Conal Keaney who spent years away from the highest levels of hurling before coming back and playing in two All Ireland hurling semi finals, winning a Leinster title and a League? Is he the one exception to your rule?
How many didn't play until secondary school? Three or four? Thirty or forty? I thought the basic argument was that you had to be a toff, and only toffs play it - so what do they do up until secondary school than - these many? Subjective and unverifiable - unless you'd like to go through the current squad and say which ones?
So our forwards can't pass a ball more than two yards? I thought they passed better than the French forwards, given the amount of forward passes on their side. Can you pass a rugby ball better then them? Or are you taking about soccer passing - sorry Association football passing!! In that case, i'd still take athletes like Cian Healy or Rory Best to out pass you any day of the week.
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 02:52:06 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 21, 2014, 02:36:50 PM
BOD's parents were/are both doctors as far as I know.
That doesnt make them toffs to me. I'd say they are middle class and have done well for themselves (through hard work).
Sounds like someone has a chip on their shoulder.
BOD had your average, normal upbringing, with two parents doctors, living in Clontarf and going to Blackrock College. Your average, normal upbringing, the same as everybody else.
Class snobbery/superiority/inferiority complex at its best.I thought that was more of a British thing.
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 21, 2014, 04:50:18 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 04:28:14 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 21, 2014, 04:15:51 PM
Your first sentence is subjective (having played three of these games at reasonable level, I'd argue that you need to master more skills in Gaelic football, hurling and rugby then in soccer - hence soccer's appeal) and your second sentence is just plain wrong. You can say the inverse - I'm doing it now. Darcy said himself during the week he was a hurling man before he changed schools - you telling me an athlete with his physical gifts couldn't have made it as a Wexford corner forward?
Wexford don't play at a very high level these days, but no.
You will not make it in inter-county hurling if you spend more than a few years away from practising the basic skills.
You will not be able to play at any sort of decent level in association football if you have not been playing the game and developing your skills from childhood up.
You will not pick up a hurley for the first time at 13 or kick a ball for the first time at 13 and play top-level hurling or association football respectively.
Many international rugby players never played the game before secondary school.
You only have to look at the Irish team themselves to see the paucity in so called skill levels. Most forwards are literally unable to pass the ball more than two yards.
Wexford play at a higher level than I suspect you ever played at, in any code - unless you'd care to enlighten us?
You refuse to define your level for association football - but the simple fact is that the skills of association football are the easiest to learn and practice by yourself with a ball (try practicing a lineout on your own, or hurling without a gable wall or handball alley, or high fielding on your own). Also with the prevalence of five a side games, most active athletes in any code would I'm sure able to give an account of themselves at your mysterious level - let's call it Leinster Senior league, will we?
As for picking up a hurley, the first time I picked one up seriously was three days after my 13th birthday, and I joined the hurling team in my secondary school to get out of class. Five years later I had two Dublin colleges A medals in my pocket, captaining the team from corner back. Maybe not the highest level in the world, but athleticism and an enthusiasm for violence can take you a long way! What about someone like Conal Keaney who spent years away from the highest levels of hurling before coming back and playing in two All Ireland hurling semi finals, winning a Leinster title and a League? Is he the one exception to your rule?
How many didn't play until secondary school? Three or four? Thirty or forty? I thought the basic argument was that you had to be a toff, and only toffs play it - so what do they do up until secondary school than - these many? Subjective and unverifiable - unless you'd like to go through the current squad and say which ones?
So our forwards can't pass a ball more than two yards? I thought they passed better than the French forwards, given the amount of forward passes on their side. Can you pass a rugby ball better then them? Or are you taking about soccer passing - sorry Association football passing!! In that case, i'd still take athletes like Cian Healy or Rory Best to out pass you any day of the week.
Well. I've played in Croke Park*, which is something that no Wexford hurler has done for a long time.
I wasn't aware you had to be a top level sportsperson to comment on these forums. But I guess the show us your medals argument is one that's trotted out by somebody when they've nothing else to fall back on.
Neither Kevin Maggs nor, as I said, John Hayes, played the game until they were 18 and both played international rugby for many years, and in Hayes' case went right to the highest level of rugby there is - the British Loins.
Can you name me an association football player who never played the game until 18 at made it to the top level - ie World Cup or the top division of a major European league? Don't bother saying Kevin Moran or Niall Quinn as you'd be wrong.
Can I pass a rugby ball better than Paul O'Connell or Cian Healy? Well i) if you're measuring a supposed international-class athlete against me, I'll take that as a tacit admission that they are not possessed with a high level of skill, and ii) I have played rugby**, and could at least spin the ball when passing, so yes, I can pass a ball better. That isn't saying much, mind.
Conal Keaney to the best of my knowledge has always played club hurling at a pretty high level (ie winning our county titles in a row) 2007-10, even when concentrating on football at inter-county level, and you can also bet your life that he was practising away in preparation for when he eventually would return to the inter-county game.
*The fact that it was at Cumann na mBunscoil level is neither here nor there.
**A long, long time ago.
Quote from: Kimbap on March 21, 2014, 05:08:00 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 02:52:06 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 21, 2014, 02:36:50 PM
BOD's parents were/are both doctors as far as I know.
That doesnt make them toffs to me. I'd say they are middle class and have done well for themselves (through hard work).
Sounds like someone has a chip on their shoulder.
BOD had your average, normal upbringing, with two parents doctors, living in Clontarf and going to Blackrock College. Your average, normal upbringing, the same as everybody else.
Class snobbery/superiority/inferiority complex at its best.I thought that was more of a British thing.
No, it's merely pointing out that the notion that growing up in one of Dublin's most affluent areas, being brought up by two doctors, and attending the country's most "prestigious" school constitutes an "ordinary" upbringing is utterly laughable.
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 06:15:31 PM
Quote from: Kimbap on March 21, 2014, 05:08:00 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 02:52:06 PM
Quote from: Walter Cronc on March 21, 2014, 02:36:50 PM
BOD's parents were/are both doctors as far as I know.
That doesnt make them toffs to me. I'd say they are middle class and have done well for themselves (through hard work).
Sounds like someone has a chip on their shoulder.
BOD had your average, normal upbringing, with two parents doctors, living in Clontarf and going to Blackrock College. Your average, normal upbringing, the same as everybody else.
Class snobbery/superiority/inferiority complex at its best.I thought that was more of a British thing.
No, it's just pointing out that the notion that growing up in one of Dublin's most affluent areas, having both parents working as a doctor, and attending the country's most "prestigious" school constitutes an "ordinary" upbringing is utterly laughable.
My God,You are one angry and confused lad,
Thats BOD's particular background,
Give me an example of what is suitably deemed "ordinary"by you and I'll give you an example of a current international with a similar background.
Quote from: Kimbap on March 21, 2014, 06:20:22 PM
My God,You are one angry and confused lad,
Thats BOD's particular background,
Give me an example of what is suitably deemed "ordinary"by you and I'll give you an example of a current international with a similar background.
Where did I say I had anything against Brian O'Driscoll's background?
Tony Benn had an even more privileged upbringing and he's one of my heroes.
I'm only pointing out that the notion that Brian O'Driscoll had an "ordinary" upbringing is plainly ludicrous. Which it is.
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 03:33:06 PM
Quote from: screenexile on March 21, 2014, 03:29:16 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 03:24:24 PM
Association football has a far greater "culture of respect" than rugby.
Ah here . . . are you joking??!!
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/05/27/article-2331762-1A024DE9000005DC-148_634x403.jpg)
Were those union jacks left behind from when the IRFU used to still fly them at Lansdowne Road until the late 1920s?
Do explain...
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 06:28:41 PM
Quote from: Kimbap on March 21, 2014, 06:20:22 PM
My God,You are one angry and confused lad,
Thats BOD's particular background,
Give me an example of what is suitably deemed "ordinary"by you and I'll give you an example of a current international with a similar background.
Where did I say I had anything against Brian O'Driscoll's background?
Tony Benn had an even more privileged upbringing and he's one of my heroes.
I'm only pointing out that the notion that Brian O'Driscoll had an "ordinary" upbringing is plainly ludicrous. Which it is.
And im pointing out that an ordinary background as you call it (ffs) Means different things to different people.
I don't even know what your argument is.
Quote from: Kimbap on March 21, 2014, 06:37:20 PM
And im pointing out that an ordinary background as you call it (ffs) Means different things to different people.
I don't even know what your argument is.
If you grew up in the top 2-3% of the population as measured by socio-economic criteria, I guess you could call it an ordinary upbringing.
But a quick internet search for a definition of "ordinary" tells us it is "what is commonplace or standard". Ireland must be a very, very affluent society indeed if living in one of the country's most affluent areas, being raised by two doctors and going to Blackrock College is standard.
+1 on the "I don't know what your argument is" - I haven't a clue what point you're trying to make, and I think at this stage your seethingness has confused even yourself.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on March 21, 2014, 04:09:41 PM
Tom Humphries, a DPP file is awaiting him.
Where's dublinfella to tell us how the GAA needs to engage in some soul-searching?
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 06:46:28 PM
Quote from: Kimbap on March 21, 2014, 06:37:20 PM
And im pointing out that an ordinary background as you call it (ffs) Means different things to different people.
I don't even know what your argument is.
If you grew up in the top 2-3% of the population as measured by socio-economic criteria, I guess you could call it an ordinary upbringing.
But a quick internet search for a definition of "ordinary" tells us it is "what is commonplace or standard". Ireland must be a very, very affluent society indeed if living in one of the country's most affluent areas, being raised by two doctors and going to Blackrock College is standard.
+1 on the "I don't know what your argument is" - I haven't a clue what point you're trying to make, and I think at this stage your seethingness has confused even yourself.
This is totally pointless but im pretty sure BOD's family was not in the top 2-3 percentile of wealthy families in Ireland (not that it matters)
I wish you and your nutjob theories were around when i was kid.I played several different sports,if only there was somebody like you who i could have explained my parents socio economic situation to at the time and then you could point me in the direction of which sport to concentrate on.
You're awfully confused and/or deliberately ignorant.
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 06:10:14 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 21, 2014, 04:50:18 PM
Quote from: Sidney on March 21, 2014, 04:28:14 PM
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 21, 2014, 04:15:51 PM
Your first sentence is subjective (having played three of these games at reasonable level, I'd argue that you need to master more skills in Gaelic football, hurling and rugby then in soccer - hence soccer's appeal) and your second sentence is just plain wrong. You can say the inverse - I'm doing it now. Darcy said himself during the week he was a hurling man before he changed schools - you telling me an athlete with his physical gifts couldn't have made it as a Wexford corner forward?
Wexford don't play at a very high level these days, but no.
You will not make it in inter-county hurling if you spend more than a few years away from practising the basic skills.
You will not be able to play at any sort of decent level in association football if you have not been playing the game and developing your skills from childhood up.
You will not pick up a hurley for the first time at 13 or kick a ball for the first time at 13 and play top-level hurling or association football respectively.
Many international rugby players never played the game before secondary school.
You only have to look at the Irish team themselves to see the paucity in so called skill levels. Most forwards are literally unable to pass the ball more than two yards.
Wexford play at a higher level than I suspect you ever played at, in any code - unless you'd care to enlighten us?
You refuse to define your level for association football - but the simple fact is that the skills of association football are the easiest to learn and practice by yourself with a ball (try practicing a lineout on your own, or hurling without a gable wall or handball alley, or high fielding on your own). Also with the prevalence of five a side games, most active athletes in any code would I'm sure able to give an account of themselves at your mysterious level - let's call it Leinster Senior league, will we?
As for picking up a hurley, the first time I picked one up seriously was three days after my 13th birthday, and I joined the hurling team in my secondary school to get out of class. Five years later I had two Dublin colleges A medals in my pocket, captaining the team from corner back. Maybe not the highest level in the world, but athleticism and an enthusiasm for violence can take you a long way! What about someone like Conal Keaney who spent years away from the highest levels of hurling before coming back and playing in two All Ireland hurling semi finals, winning a Leinster title and a League? Is he the one exception to your rule?
How many didn't play until secondary school? Three or four? Thirty or forty? I thought the basic argument was that you had to be a toff, and only toffs play it - so what do they do up until secondary school than - these many? Subjective and unverifiable - unless you'd like to go through the current squad and say which ones?
So our forwards can't pass a ball more than two yards? I thought they passed better than the French forwards, given the amount of forward passes on their side. Can you pass a rugby ball better then them? Or are you taking about soccer passing - sorry Association football passing!! In that case, i'd still take athletes like Cian Healy or Rory Best to out pass you any day of the week.
Well. I've played in Croke Park*, which is something that no Wexford hurler has done for a long time.
I wasn't aware you had to be a top level sportsperson to comment on these forums. But I guess the show us your medals argument is one that's trotted out by somebody when they've nothing else to fall back on.
Neither Kevin Maggs nor, as I said, John Hayes, played the game until they were 18 and both played international rugby for many years, and in Hayes' case went right to the highest level of rugby there is - the British Loins.
Can you name me an association football player who never played the game until 18 at made it to the top level - ie World Cup or the top division of a major European league? Don't bother saying Kevin Moran or Niall Quinn as you'd be wrong.
Can I pass a rugby ball better than Paul O'Connell or Cian Healy? Well i) if you're measuring a supposed international-class athlete against me, I'll take that as a tacit admission that they are not possessed with a high level of skill, and ii) I have played rugby**, and could at least spin the ball when passing, so yes, I can pass a ball better. That isn't saying much, mind.
Conal Keaney to the best of my knowledge has always played club hurling at a pretty high level (ie winning our county titles in a row) 2007-10, even when concentrating on football at inter-county level, and you can also bet your life that he was practising away in preparation for when he eventually would return to the inter-county game.
*The fact that it was at Cumann na mBunscoil level is neither here nor there.
**A long, long time ago.
Very dishonest arguments Sidney.
First up, you make a joke of Wexford not playing in Croker but you have - but sure it was only Cumann Na mBunscoil. Well, as i said in my post, I've played there as well - doesn't bring me anywhere close to the level of a current Wexford intercounty hurler, let alone the guys who played for them in the 80's and 90's, Very insulting to lads who are at a level way beyond yourself.
As for being an elite sportsman to comment, i never said that. What I did was to ask you to define the "levels" you are spouting on about. In the absence of that, we can only ask what your qualifications are to make the huge generalisations you are making. Again, if you are just a casual observer of rugby like the rest of us (I've played a couple of games with the oval ball, but I would never rate myself an expert) then stating the the Irish forwards cannot pass, or that rugby is an game without skills compared to hurling/Gaelic/soccer is exposed as the uninformed ignorance that it is. Barstool opinions and you know what opinions are like, don't you?
No I can't name you an "association" football player who left the game at 18 to try another - and given the ubiquity of soccer globally that is not very surprising, even less surprising in Ireland when up to even 20 years ago going between sports was hugely frowned upon (as for Kev Moran and Niall Quinn, there are still some who mourn their loss to Dublin GAA, despite Italia 90).
With Maggs and Hayes, you are completely discounting the possibility of natural aptitude, particularly on the part of Hayes. Not surprising that someone with his bulk (but agile as well with it) was made to be a prop. He is a very interesting example, because initially it was his lifting and open play that brought him to the attention of Munster and Ireland - his scrummaging was widely derided (by George Hook and others for about 10 years) and it was only in the twilight of his career that he got any credit for it. So it took him over ten years to learn the principle role of his position.
As for him making the Lions squad, well I'm glad you brought it up, because it is just another example of your dishonest argument. As you well know, the playing population in rugby both here in Ireland, and globally is far more shallow than in soccer - so put bluntly, there are less people between the bottom and the top of the game. The fact that Hayes made a Lions squad (did he go as a replacement? I think he did) does not illustrate an inherent lack of skills in the game itself - rather a much shallower pool of talent to choose from.
Staying with Hayes, you say you played a bit of rugby - well I'm assuming a talented tyro such as yourself was on the wing, or perhaps fullback? If I'm right about that, if you went in at prop you would have got minced at the first scrum, possibly even spinally injured. Rugby, more than all the other games in question, demands specialisation. John Hayes could not do what BOD did - but the reverse is also true. Different attributes, qualities - different skills. Sheflin can't play flanker - i wouldn't let Sean O'Brien take a 65 (though apparently he is handy enough with a hurl) - that doesn't make Sean O'Brien a dud with no skills.
I'm certainly not measuring you against Paul O'Connell - you are doing that by saying he and the other Irish forwards cannot pass. So I naturally ask how would you know? And then you say you've played a few games and you can spin the ball, so obviously you must be better at passing than them. I'm assuming you made these passes with Pape, Picamoles and Basteraud hanging off you, yes? I'm using the French players as an example because I can only picture you at home, wearing a tricorner hat, swearing that you are Napoleon. Your delusion knows no bounds.
As for Conal Keaney - your original point was that no one could leave the intercounty game for a few years and then pick it up again - which is exactly what he did. As for his club career, well we get back to the question of levels - I think senior club hurling in Dublin is a very high level, and I am also confident that any of those hurlers would make a fist of it at Leinster Senior League level in soccer, which I would also consider to be a high level. I also think that certain members of the Irish rugby team eg O'Driscoll, Darcy, the Kearneys, Sexton, Trimble - could also play Leinster senior League through pure athleticism and temperament. They might take a little longer with hurling (because unlike soccer/gaelic/rugby there are two variables, stick and ball, rather than one) but with application I'm sure they could get to intermediate/senior level depending on aptitude.
To downgrade the achievements of the rugby team at the time of their greatest victory is nothing more than trollery, and sure we don't mind a bit of back and forth. But saying you can pass a rugby ball better than POC or Cian Healy??!! Do you live under a bridge?
Quote from: easytiger95 on March 21, 2014, 07:05:58 PM
As for Conal Keaney - your original point was that no one could leave the intercounty game for a few years and then pick it up again - which is exactly what he did.
That wasn't what I said - what I said was: "You will not make it in inter-county hurling if you spend more than a few years away from practising the basic skills."
Conal Keaney did not do that - he was playing club hurling at a high level with the Dublin champions.
So there's a dishonest argument on your part right there.
How many angels are dancing on the head of your pin at the moment?
Would they be the skills applicable to inter county hurling or skills applied at a level below, ie club hurling, given your love for "levels"? Much as I would love to have even played senior club, those who I know who did and then went on to senior intercounty have told me that the two grades are miles apart. Keaney's return was remarkable - but the gifted players at the top of their games, in hurling, Gaelic, soccer and rugby are capable of remarkable feats.
With regard to skill, it is my opinion (not fact!) that acts of what we call "skill" in all the codes we talk about are made up of three things - quickness of thought, physical or mental bravery and better than average motor functions. If you have the first two, you can be a good to great player, if you have all three you can be a genius.
The first two are common to all the players I've given as examples, which is why I think the rugby players could happily prosper at the upper levels in any sport. And vice versa for Gaelic/soccer/hurlers, thought when it comes to rugby the motor functions take on a greater importance.
Totally avoided this World Cup malarkey until I was in the gym and a match was playing right in front of my face.
Really can't understand why this sport is hyped up like it is. What an absolute ass of a game.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 12:20:45 AM
Totally avoided this World Cup malarkey until I was in the gym and a match was playing right in front of my face.
Really can't understand why this sport is hyped up like it is. What an absolute ass of a game.
I have friends who are mad into rugby union and despise rugby league. When I ask them has there ever been a time when the two were ever more similar it doesn't go down well. I guess all teams aren't like Ireland - some actually try to round round or past opponenets, not straight into them.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 12:20:45 AM
Totally avoided this World Cup malarkey until I was in the gym and a match was playing right in front of my face.
Really can't understand why this sport is hyped up like it is. What an absolute ass of a game.
It's a status thing Ruggers, more up market that GAA or Soccer, prawn sandwich brigade, and a complete balls of a sport.
Each to their own but inverted snobbery does amuse me.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 12:20:45 AM
Totally avoided this World Cup malarkey until I was in the gym and a match was playing right in front of my face.
Really can't understand why this sport is hyped up like it is. What an absolute ass of a game.
I could agree more, but not by much. And then to make matters worse there is the excitement about "The Lions"
+1.
Quote from: Dinny Breen on October 01, 2019, 09:38:45 AM
Each to their own but inverted snobbery does amuse me.
Probably not as much as those wheeling out the "inverted snobbery" card amuses me.
Quote from: Orior on October 01, 2019, 09:39:44 AM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 12:20:45 AM
Totally avoided this World Cup malarkey until I was in the gym and a match was playing right in front of my face.
Really can't understand why this sport is hyped up like it is. What an absolute ass of a game.
I could agree more, but not by much. And then to make matters worse there is the excitement about "The Lions"
The Lions hype is hard to understand. They make a big deal out of combining 4 of the top 6/7 teams in the world to take on one of the other top teams and see it as some super amazing achievement if they win. Same goes for the Ashes - two teams play every few years and its seen as a big deal when they win.
I'll add the Ryder Cup.
But hmon guys, NZ play Canada tomorro morn, dont tell me yis arent even a little bit excited?!
Quote from: quit yo jibbajabba on October 01, 2019, 10:16:45 AM
I'll add the Ryder Cup.
But hmon guys, NZ play Canada tomorro morn, dont tell me yis arent even a little bit excited?!
(https://www.reactiongifs.com/r/cheering_minions.gif)
I agree with the snobbery remarks. I've zero interest in the game and I'm sure there are plenty to are attracted to it for the status element.
But I know plenty of people who like it because they enjoy the game, just like they do GAA, soccer or any other field sport. So what's the issue?
I'm as working class as you get lads, like a good of football, soccer and rugby. No status here.
I love the intensity in rugby, stepping onto that pitch is a massive test of character. Of course the make up of rugby means you have some mismatches in this world cup, but come the quarter finals - you'll have genuinely 8 teams, all on their day can beat their opponent. The Rugby World Cup has led to some massive shocks - this one will be no different,
As for the game itself, as the old saying goes - There's a place for all shapes and sizes on a rugby pitch.
I'll watch most sports and really want Ireland to do well. I've watched rugby all my life and usually enjoy it. I just find the hype and bandwagon absolutely nauseating. Like we're trying to make this game against Russia into some sort of momentous do or die battle. Connacht whipped these guys 3 weeks ago and Samoa also hammered them in the tournament. Yet we've articles about the roof being closed and the weather conditions.....give me a break. Ireland toured here 2 years ago and we've supposedly the greatest coach ever - surely the team is prepared for the conditions??? Ireland should put 60/70 points on these guys at their ease.
I don't think the snobbery exists like it use to. Plenty of people I know love to play and watch rugby and they would be anything but snobs.
Personally I don't like the sport, I find it boring and not very entertaining. I hate the way its hyped up like the This is Rugby Country and Team of us nonsense.
I also hate Ireland's Call, and while I know that's not unique to Rugby it is more associated with it than say Hockey who also use it.
I don't feel any connection whatsoever to the Ireland rugby team. Its also cringe the over the top reactions to a friendly win against a New Zealand C team or whatever.
Quote from: laoislad on October 01, 2019, 12:28:06 PM
I don't think the snobbery exists like it use to. Plenty of people I know love to play and watch rugby and they would be anything but snobs.
Personally I don't like the sport, I find it boring and not very entertaining. I hate the way its hyped up like the This is Rugby Country and Team of us nonsense.
I also hate Ireland's Call, and while I know that's not unique to Rugby it is more associated with it than say Hockey who also use it.
I don't feel any connection whatsoever to the Ireland rugby team. Its also cringe the over the top reactions to a friendly win against a New Zealand C team or whatever.
Must be freaky Friday or something, because I've just agreed with everything you just said ;D
Especially the bit in bold.
Quote from: laoislad on October 01, 2019, 12:28:06 PM
I don't think the snobbery exists like it use to. Plenty of people I know love to play and watch rugby and they would be anything but snobs.
Personally I don't like the sport, I find it boring and not very entertaining. I hate the way its hyped up like the This is Rugby Country and Team of us nonsense.
I also hate Ireland's Call, and while I know that's not unique to Rugby it is more associated with it than say Hockey who also use it.
I don't feel any connection whatsoever to the Ireland rugby team. Its also cringe the over the top reactions to a friendly win against a New Zealand C team or whatever.
Agree with everything, especially the hatred towards the Phil Coulter Anthem.
If it was on I'd watch it but I never go out of my way to see a game. The amount of people I know who suddenly become fans of rugby for the 6 nations or a world cup is unbelievable. They've absolute no interest in a club team or Ulster or whatever but then spout shite about the Irish team.
If it's not for you, it's not for you lads but the whole 'team of us thing'.....like, it's just branding you know? When it's a rugby world cup in a professional sport....of course they are going to push it to get folk to pay 70 odd Euro for a jersey. Same as the Dubs / Tyrone / Whoever releasing the new jersey for the season ahead curiously 5/6 weeks every year before xmas.
I like the fact Ireland competes as one nation in a sport and is pretty damn good at it too. Now whilst everyone isn't a fan of Ireland's Call it's a small price to pay for having the world recognise the nation as one for a change and be actually relevant in a growing sport.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: laoislad on October 01, 2019, 12:28:06 PM
I don't think the snobbery exists like it use to. Plenty of people I know love to play and watch rugby and they would be anything but snobs.
Personally I don't like the sport, I find it boring and not very entertaining. I hate the way its hyped up like the This is Rugby Country and Team of us nonsense.
I also hate Ireland's Call, and while I know that's not unique to Rugby it is more associated with it than say Hockey who also use it.
I don't feel any connection whatsoever to the Ireland rugby team. Its also cringe the over the top reactions to a friendly win against a New Zealand C team or whatever.
Must be freaky Friday or something, because I've just agreed with everything you just said ;D
I agree with both of ye....
Definitely need to lie down for a while ;D
Quote from: lurganblue on October 01, 2019, 12:37:04 PM
Quote from: laoislad on October 01, 2019, 12:28:06 PM
I don't think the snobbery exists like it use to. Plenty of people I know love to play and watch rugby and they would be anything but snobs.
Personally I don't like the sport, I find it boring and not very entertaining. I hate the way its hyped up like the This is Rugby Country and Team of us nonsense.
I also hate Ireland's Call, and while I know that's not unique to Rugby it is more associated with it than say Hockey who also use it.
I don't feel any connection whatsoever to the Ireland rugby team. Its also cringe the over the top reactions to a friendly win against a New Zealand C team or whatever.
Agree with everything, especially the hatred towards the Phil Coulter Anthem.
If it was on I'd watch it but I never go out of my way to see a game. The amount of people I know who suddenly become fans of rugby for the 6 nations or a world cup is unbelievable. They've absolute no interest in a club team or Ulster or whatever but then spout shite about the Irish team.
Not like the soccer boys who follow their local club up and down the country.
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 01, 2019, 02:04:57 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on October 01, 2019, 12:37:04 PM
Quote from: laoislad on October 01, 2019, 12:28:06 PM
I don't think the snobbery exists like it use to. Plenty of people I know love to play and watch rugby and they would be anything but snobs.
Personally I don't like the sport, I find it boring and not very entertaining. I hate the way its hyped up like the This is Rugby Country and Team of us nonsense.
I also hate Ireland's Call, and while I know that's not unique to Rugby it is more associated with it than say Hockey who also use it.
I don't feel any connection whatsoever to the Ireland rugby team. Its also cringe the over the top reactions to a friendly win against a New Zealand C team or whatever.
Agree with everything, especially the hatred towards the Phil Coulter Anthem.
If it was on I'd watch it but I never go out of my way to see a game. The amount of people I know who suddenly become fans of rugby for the 6 nations or a world cup is unbelievable. They've absolute no interest in a club team or Ulster or whatever but then spout shite about the Irish team.
Not like the soccer boys who follow their local club up and down the country.
I didn't mention a local team. I'd say the vast majority of soccer fans support a club team of some description and don't just rock up for World Cups.
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2019, 12:46:18 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: laoislad on October 01, 2019, 12:28:06 PM
I don't think the snobbery exists like it use to. Plenty of people I know love to play and watch rugby and they would be anything but snobs.
Personally I don't like the sport, I find it boring and not very entertaining. I hate the way its hyped up like the This is Rugby Country and Team of us nonsense.
I also hate Ireland's Call, and while I know that's not unique to Rugby it is more associated with it than say Hockey who also use it.
I don't feel any connection whatsoever to the Ireland rugby team. Its also cringe the over the top reactions to a friendly win against a New Zealand C team or whatever.
Must be freaky Friday or something, because I've just agreed with everything you just said ;D
I agree with both of ye....
Definitely need to lie down for a while ;D
+1
I live in the US and a lot ex pats' ask me am I excited about Ireland and the world cup, just shrug my shoulders and say, not really I don't follow it.
the English, and French are a lot more enthusiastic than I am.
I watched a few games four years ago when I was back for the all-Ireland, it just feels like American football without the pads.
as I young fella I used to remember guys flying up and down the wings and it was exciting, nowdays seems like a different game.
finally, that Irelands song BS doesnt exactly do it for me either.
Quote from: joemamas on October 01, 2019, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2019, 12:46:18 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: laoislad on October 01, 2019, 12:28:06 PM
I don't think the snobbery exists like it use to. Plenty of people I know love to play and watch rugby and they would be anything but snobs.
Personally I don't like the sport, I find it boring and not very entertaining. I hate the way its hyped up like the This is Rugby Country and Team of us nonsense.
I also hate Ireland's Call, and while I know that's not unique to Rugby it is more associated with it than say Hockey who also use it.
I don't feel any connection whatsoever to the Ireland rugby team. Its also cringe the over the top reactions to a friendly win against a New Zealand C team or whatever.
Must be freaky Friday or something, because I've just agreed with everything you just said ;D
I agree with both of ye....
Definitely need to lie down for a while ;D
+1
I live in the US and a lot ex pats' ask me am I excited about Ireland and the world cup, just shrug my shoulders and say, not really I don't follow it.
the English, and French are a lot more enthusiastic than I am.
I watched a few games four years ago when I was back for the all-Ireland, it just feels like American football without the pads.
as I young fella I used to remember guys flying up and down the wings and it was exciting, nowdays seems like a different game.
finally, that Irelands song BS doesnt exactly do it for me either.
Ah come on! American football is a far, far better game.
If I never hear Ireland's Call again it'll be too soon. No offense to Phil coulter - he probably fulfilled his brief to a tee with this shite - but it's godawfulshite.
i Have a passing interest in rugby. I do enjoy the big hits and manliness that you just don't get in the likes of premiership football. There's an excitement in some matches in the 6 nations etc that Liverpool v Burnley just doesn't produce. I've been to an autumn international in the Aviva and it had a better atmosphere than most EPL matches. I still prefer Gaelic football and hurling and would watch any GAA match ahead of soccer or rugby
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 01, 2019, 02:25:14 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 01, 2019, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2019, 12:46:18 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: laoislad on October 01, 2019, 12:28:06 PM
I don't think the snobbery exists like it use to. Plenty of people I know love to play and watch rugby and they would be anything but snobs.
Personally I don't like the sport, I find it boring and not very entertaining. I hate the way its hyped up like the This is Rugby Country and Team of us nonsense.
I also hate Ireland's Call, and while I know that's not unique to Rugby it is more associated with it than say Hockey who also use it.
I don't feel any connection whatsoever to the Ireland rugby team. Its also cringe the over the top reactions to a friendly win against a New Zealand C team or whatever.
Must be freaky Friday or something, because I've just agreed with everything you just said ;D
I agree with both of ye....
Definitely need to lie down for a while ;D
+1
I live in the US and a lot ex pats' ask me am I excited about Ireland and the world cup, just shrug my shoulders and say, not really I don't follow it.
the English, and French are a lot more enthusiastic than I am.
I watched a few games four years ago when I was back for the all-Ireland, it just feels like American football without the pads.
as I young fella I used to remember guys flying up and down the wings and it was exciting, nowdays seems like a different game.
finally, that Irelands song BS doesnt exactly do it for me either.
Ah come on! American football is a far, far better game.
If I never hear Ireland's Call again it'll be too soon. No offense to Phil coulter - he probably fulfilled his brief to a tee with this shite - but it's godawfulshite.
American Football is shite, but Rugby is even worse.
Agreed on that Ireland's Call bollocks. Pure dung.
Quote from: Esmarelda on October 01, 2019, 02:04:57 PM
Quote from: lurganblue on October 01, 2019, 12:37:04 PM
Quote from: laoislad on October 01, 2019, 12:28:06 PM
I don't think the snobbery exists like it use to. Plenty of people I know love to play and watch rugby and they would be anything but snobs.
Personally I don't like the sport, I find it boring and not very entertaining. I hate the way its hyped up like the This is Rugby Country and Team of us nonsense.
I also hate Ireland's Call, and while I know that's not unique to Rugby it is more associated with it than say Hockey who also use it.
I don't feel any connection whatsoever to the Ireland rugby team. Its also cringe the over the top reactions to a friendly win against a New Zealand C team or whatever.
Agree with everything, especially the hatred towards the Phil Coulter Anthem.
If it was on I'd watch it but I never go out of my way to see a game. The amount of people I know who suddenly become fans of rugby for the 6 nations or a world cup is unbelievable. They've absolute no interest in a club team or Ulster or whatever but then spout shite about the Irish team.
Not like the soccer boys who follow their local club up and down the country.
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/s44nqrt6clFOE/giphy.gif?cid=790b76119f3a26acabb191c26a02179f50eef3d65275e7dd&rid=giphy.gif)
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 02:34:37 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 01, 2019, 02:25:14 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 01, 2019, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2019, 12:46:18 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: laoislad on October 01, 2019, 12:28:06 PM
I don't think the snobbery exists like it use to. Plenty of people I know love to play and watch rugby and they would be anything but snobs.
Personally I don't like the sport, I find it boring and not very entertaining. I hate the way its hyped up like the This is Rugby Country and Team of us nonsense.
I also hate Ireland's Call, and while I know that's not unique to Rugby it is more associated with it than say Hockey who also use it.
I don't feel any connection whatsoever to the Ireland rugby team. Its also cringe the over the top reactions to a friendly win against a New Zealand C team or whatever.
Must be freaky Friday or something, because I've just agreed with everything you just said ;D
I agree with both of ye....
Definitely need to lie down for a while ;D
+1
I live in the US and a lot ex pats' ask me am I excited about Ireland and the world cup, just shrug my shoulders and say, not really I don't follow it.
the English, and French are a lot more enthusiastic than I am.
I watched a few games four years ago when I was back for the all-Ireland, it just feels like American football without the pads.
as I young fella I used to remember guys flying up and down the wings and it was exciting, nowdays seems like a different game.
finally, that Irelands song BS doesnt exactly do it for me either.
Ah come on! American football is a far, far better game.
If I never hear Ireland's Call again it'll be too soon. No offense to Phil coulter - he probably fulfilled his brief to a tee with this shite - but it's godawfulshite.
American Football is shite, but Rugby is even worse.
Agreed on that Ireland's Call bollocks. Pure dung.
Interesting that most posters are not fans of Ireland's Call. Is that solely due to its failings as a song? Surely there is merit in having a song that everyone either playing or spectating can identify with.
Quote from: GetOverTheBar on October 01, 2019, 12:39:30 PM
If it's not for you, it's not for you lads but the whole 'team of us thing'.....like, it's just branding you know? When it's a rugby world cup in a professional sport....of course they are going to push it to get folk to pay 70 odd Euro for a jersey. Same as the Dubs / Tyrone / Whoever releasing the new jersey for the season ahead curiously 5/6 weeks every year before xmas.
I like the fact Ireland competes as one nation in a sport and is pretty damn good at it too. Now whilst everyone isn't a fan of Ireland's Call it's a small price to pay for having the world recognise the nation as one for a change and be actually relevant in a growing sport.
I really like that about rugby and GAA
I like watching rugby even if I wouldn't know the rules very well.
Quote from: michaelg on October 01, 2019, 04:14:20 PM
Interesting that most posters are not fans of Ireland's Call. Is that solely due to its failings as a song? Surely there is merit in having a song that everyone either playing or spectating can identify with.
I'd prefer "Danny Boy" aka "the arse of London" aka "London Derrière"
Quote from: michaelg on October 01, 2019, 04:14:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 02:34:37 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 01, 2019, 02:25:14 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 01, 2019, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2019, 12:46:18 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: laoislad on October 01, 2019, 12:28:06 PM
I don't think the snobbery exists like it use to. Plenty of people I know love to play and watch rugby and they would be anything but snobs.
Personally I don't like the sport, I find it boring and not very entertaining. I hate the way its hyped up like the This is Rugby Country and Team of us nonsense.
I also hate Ireland's Call, and while I know that's not unique to Rugby it is more associated with it than say Hockey who also use it.
I don't feel any connection whatsoever to the Ireland rugby team. Its also cringe the over the top reactions to a friendly win against a New Zealand C team or whatever.
Must be freaky Friday or something, because I've just agreed with everything you just said ;D
I agree with both of ye....
Definitely need to lie down for a while ;D
+1
I live in the US and a lot ex pats' ask me am I excited about Ireland and the world cup, just shrug my shoulders and say, not really I don't follow it.
the English, and French are a lot more enthusiastic than I am.
I watched a few games four years ago when I was back for the all-Ireland, it just feels like American football without the pads.
as I young fella I used to remember guys flying up and down the wings and it was exciting, nowdays seems like a different game.
finally, that Irelands song BS doesnt exactly do it for me either.
Ah come on! American football is a far, far better game.
If I never hear Ireland's Call again it'll be too soon. No offense to Phil coulter - he probably fulfilled his brief to a tee with this shite - but it's godawfulshite.
American Football is shite, but Rugby is even worse.
Agreed on that Ireland's Call bollocks. Pure dung.
Interesting that most posters are not fans of Ireland's Call. Is that solely due to its failings as a song? Surely there is merit in having a song that everyone either playing or spectating can identify with.
The song isn't great, but here - just mute it or go and make a cup of tea or whatever you want. It shouldn't really spoil anyone's enjoyment of the game itself.
Quote from: Orior on October 01, 2019, 04:20:45 PM
Quote from: michaelg on October 01, 2019, 04:14:20 PM
Interesting that most posters are not fans of Ireland's Call. Is that solely due to its failings as a song? Surely there is merit in having a song that everyone either playing or spectating can identify with.
I'd prefer "Danny Boy" aka "the arse of London" aka "London Derrière"
Never heard that before - Quite funny - When the GSTQ fans among the NI football team support rule out Danny Boy, they claim it's no good as folk can't hit the high notes!
Quote from: michaelg on October 01, 2019, 04:14:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 02:34:37 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 01, 2019, 02:25:14 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 01, 2019, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2019, 12:46:18 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: laoislad on October 01, 2019, 12:28:06 PM
I don't think the snobbery exists like it use to. Plenty of people I know love to play and watch rugby and they would be anything but snobs.
Personally I don't like the sport, I find it boring and not very entertaining. I hate the way its hyped up like the This is Rugby Country and Team of us nonsense.
I also hate Ireland's Call, and while I know that's not unique to Rugby it is more associated with it than say Hockey who also use it.
I don't feel any connection whatsoever to the Ireland rugby team. Its also cringe the over the top reactions to a friendly win against a New Zealand C team or whatever.
Must be freaky Friday or something, because I've just agreed with everything you just said ;D
I agree with both of ye....
Definitely need to lie down for a while ;D
+1
I live in the US and a lot ex pats' ask me am I excited about Ireland and the world cup, just shrug my shoulders and say, not really I don't follow it.
the English, and French are a lot more enthusiastic than I am.
I watched a few games four years ago when I was back for the all-Ireland, it just feels like American football without the pads.
as I young fella I used to remember guys flying up and down the wings and it was exciting, nowdays seems like a different game.
finally, that Irelands song BS doesnt exactly do it for me either.
Ah come on! American football is a far, far better game.
If I never hear Ireland's Call again it'll be too soon. No offense to Phil coulter - he probably fulfilled his brief to a tee with this shite - but it's godawfulshite.
American Football is shite, but Rugby is even worse.
Agreed on that Ireland's Call bollocks. Pure dung.
Interesting that most posters are not fans of Ireland's Call. Is that solely due to its failings as a song? Surely there is merit in having a song that everyone either playing or spectating can identify with.
It's totally false and cringeworthy. I'd rather have no anthem. "The four proud provinces" - except the IRFU tried to remove one of them. I know I'm in the minority as inexplicably loads of people have bought into this hypocritical rubbish. "We have come to answer
our country's call" - give me a break.
Issues I have with rugger.
Have you ever seen a sport where so many of the "fans" don't understand the rules? A recent Heino advert even alludes to this - "you don't need to know the rules to enjoy the game." Sorry, but no.
Bringing out postage stamps to commemorate winning a six team league 3 years out of 6. Embarrassing.
Releasing a DVD of a friendly and marketing it as the greatest day in Irish rugby history. Cringe!
The downright snobbery of a portion of their fans towards other sports, soccer in particular, as not being "manly" enough.
Rhyming "call" with "tall" and calling it an anthem.
The relentless marketing of "team of us", "this is rugby country" , despite the fact that in participation numbers, it's behind soccer, both GAA codes, swimming, running, golf, dance(!).
They all live in their D4/Ravenhill bubble.
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 01, 2019, 05:02:20 PM
Quote from: michaelg on October 01, 2019, 04:14:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 02:34:37 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 01, 2019, 02:25:14 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 01, 2019, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2019, 12:46:18 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: laoislad on October 01, 2019, 12:28:06 PM
I don't think the snobbery exists like it use to. Plenty of people I know love to play and watch rugby and they would be anything but snobs.
Personally I don't like the sport, I find it boring and not very entertaining. I hate the way its hyped up like the This is Rugby Country and Team of us nonsense.
I also hate Ireland's Call, and while I know that's not unique to Rugby it is more associated with it than say Hockey who also use it.
I don't feel any connection whatsoever to the Ireland rugby team. Its also cringe the over the top reactions to a friendly win against a New Zealand C team or whatever.
Must be freaky Friday or something, because I've just agreed with everything you just said ;D
I agree with both of ye....
Definitely need to lie down for a while ;D
+1
I live in the US and a lot ex pats' ask me am I excited about Ireland and the world cup, just shrug my shoulders and say, not really I don't follow it.
the English, and French are a lot more enthusiastic than I am.
I watched a few games four years ago when I was back for the all-Ireland, it just feels like American football without the pads.
as I young fella I used to remember guys flying up and down the wings and it was exciting, nowdays seems like a different game.
finally, that Irelands song BS doesnt exactly do it for me either.
Ah come on! American football is a far, far better game.
If I never hear Ireland's Call again it'll be too soon. No offense to Phil coulter - he probably fulfilled his brief to a tee with this shite - but it's godawfulshite.
American Football is shite, but Rugby is even worse.
Agreed on that Ireland's Call bollocks. Pure dung.
Interesting that most posters are not fans of Ireland's Call. Is that solely due to its failings as a song? Surely there is merit in having a song that everyone either playing or spectating can identify with.
It's totally false and cringeworthy. I'd rather have no anthem. "The four proud provinces" - except the IRFU tried to remove one of them. I know I'm in the minority as inexplicably loads of people have bought into this hypocritical rubbish. "We have come to answer our country's call" - give me a break.
This. I like to see the Connacht team do well if for no other reason than that.
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 01, 2019, 05:02:20 PM
It's totally false and cringeworthy. I'd rather have no anthem. "The four proud provinces" - except the IRFU tried to remove one of them. I know I'm in the minority as inexplicably loads of people have bought into this hypocritical rubbish. "We have come to answer our country's call" - give me a break.
It's funny, but for all the IRFU's attempts to show inclusivity with the people North and South, and both religions, it does exactly the opposite. They draw attention to the fact that the island and people are divided, by having two anthems and two (or even) flags.
If you're going to play an anthem, play one or none. And fly only one flag, or none.
Anyone looking at the ireland setup regarding flags/anthems, must be wondering WTF?
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 06:32:11 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 01, 2019, 05:02:20 PM
It's totally false and cringeworthy. I'd rather have no anthem. "The four proud provinces" - except the IRFU tried to remove one of them. I know I'm in the minority as inexplicably loads of people have bought into this hypocritical rubbish. "We have come to answer our country's call" - give me a break.
It's funny, but for all the IRFU's attempts to show inclusivity with the people North and South, and both religions, it does exactly the opposite. They draw attention to the fact that the island and people are divided, by having two anthems and two (or even) flags.
If you're going to play an anthem, play one or none. And fly only one flag, or none.
Anyone looking at the ireland setup regarding flags/anthems, must be wondering WTF?
Lol. Either you're on the wind up or else your interpretation of inclusivity is stamp all over the minority.
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 06:32:11 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 01, 2019, 05:02:20 PM
It's totally false and cringeworthy. I'd rather have no anthem. "The four proud provinces" - except the IRFU tried to remove one of them. I know I'm in the minority as inexplicably loads of people have bought into this hypocritical rubbish. "We have come to answer our country's call" - give me a break.
It's funny, but for all the IRFU's attempts to show inclusivity with the people North and South, and both religions, it does exactly the opposite. They draw attention to the fact that the island and people are divided, by having two anthems and two (or even) flags.
If you're going to play an anthem, play one or none. And fly only one flag, or none.
Anyone looking at the ireland setup regarding flags/anthems, must be wondering WTF?
Your posts almost read like you are going out of your way to get offended here...
Quote from: thewobbler on October 01, 2019, 06:35:31 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 06:32:11 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 01, 2019, 05:02:20 PM
It's totally false and cringeworthy. I'd rather have no anthem. "The four proud provinces" - except the IRFU tried to remove one of them. I know I'm in the minority as inexplicably loads of people have bought into this hypocritical rubbish. "We have come to answer our country's call" - give me a break.
It's funny, but for all the IRFU's attempts to show inclusivity with the people North and South, and both religions, it does exactly the opposite. They draw attention to the fact that the island and people are divided, by having two anthems and two (or even) flags.
If you're going to play an anthem, play one or none. And fly only one flag, or none.
Anyone looking at the ireland setup regarding flags/anthems, must be wondering WTF?
Lol. Either you're on the wind up or else your interpretation of inclusivity is stamp all over the minority.
I didn't say they should play the Irish national anthem or fly the tri-colour. I said one flag and one anthem.
Quote from: imtommygunn on October 01, 2019, 06:39:58 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 06:32:11 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 01, 2019, 05:02:20 PM
It's totally false and cringeworthy. I'd rather have no anthem. "The four proud provinces" - except the IRFU tried to remove one of them. I know I'm in the minority as inexplicably loads of people have bought into this hypocritical rubbish. "We have come to answer our country's call" - give me a break.
It's funny, but for all the IRFU's attempts to show inclusivity with the people North and South, and both religions, it does exactly the opposite. They draw attention to the fact that the island and people are divided, by having two anthems and two (or even) flags.
If you're going to play an anthem, play one or none. And fly only one flag, or none.
Anyone looking at the ireland setup regarding flags/anthems, must be wondering WTF?
Your posts almost read like you are going out of your way to get offended here...
Why would I be offended? I was merely making an observation.
You just seem a bit more worked up than an "observer" would be.
You could share fill up this board with individual threads on things you don't like. Or you could just let people who do like stuff go about their business and stick to the stuff that interests you. I will make an exception for the Man United thread though.
Quote from: Tony Baloney on October 01, 2019, 07:46:37 PM
You could share fill up this board with individual threads on things you don't like. Or you could just let people who do like stuff go about their business and stick to the stuff that interests you. I will make an exception for the Man United thread though.
Apply to folk who like anything, really? Cop yourself on for fcuksake you are one of the reasons for the boring thread.
Quote from: Owenmoresider on October 01, 2019, 05:24:10 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 01, 2019, 05:02:20 PM
Quote from: michaelg on October 01, 2019, 04:14:20 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 02:34:37 PM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 01, 2019, 02:25:14 PM
Quote from: joemamas on October 01, 2019, 02:22:43 PM
Quote from: Rossfan on October 01, 2019, 12:46:18 PM
Quote from: BennyCake on October 01, 2019, 12:31:21 PM
Quote from: laoislad on October 01, 2019, 12:28:06 PM
I don't think the snobbery exists like it use to. Plenty of people I know love to play and watch rugby and they would be anything but snobs.
Personally I don't like the sport, I find it boring and not very entertaining. I hate the way its hyped up like the This is Rugby Country and Team of us nonsense.
I also hate Ireland's Call, and while I know that's not unique to Rugby it is more associated with it than say Hockey who also use it.
I don't feel any connection whatsoever to the Ireland rugby team. Its also cringe the over the top reactions to a friendly win against a New Zealand C team or whatever.
Must be freaky Friday or something, because I've just agreed with everything you just said ;D
I agree with both of ye....
Definitely need to lie down for a while ;D
+1
I live in the US and a lot ex pats' ask me am I excited about Ireland and the world cup, just shrug my shoulders and say, not really I don't follow it.
the English, and French are a lot more enthusiastic than I am.
I watched a few games four years ago when I was back for the all-Ireland, it just feels like American football without the pads.
as I young fella I used to remember guys flying up and down the wings and it was exciting, nowdays seems like a different game.
finally, that Irelands song BS doesnt exactly do it for me either.
Ah come on! American football is a far, far better game.
If I never hear Ireland's Call again it'll be too soon. No offense to Phil coulter - he probably fulfilled his brief to a tee with this shite - but it's godawfulshite.
American Football is shite, but Rugby is even worse.
Agreed on that Ireland's Call bollocks. Pure dung.
Interesting that most posters are not fans of Ireland's Call. Is that solely due to its failings as a song? Surely there is merit in having a song that everyone either playing or spectating can identify with.
It's totally false and cringeworthy. I'd rather have no anthem. "The four proud provinces" - except the IRFU tried to remove one of them. I know I'm in the minority as inexplicably loads of people have bought into this hypocritical rubbish. "We have come to answer our country's call" - give me a break.
This. I like to see the Connacht team do well if for no other reason than that.
Connacht winning the Pro12 as it was at the time and beating the IRFU's favourite child in the final was simply fantastic.
What's this about them trying to remove a province?
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 01, 2019, 11:35:17 AM
I'll watch most sports and really want Ireland to do well. I've watched rugby all my life and usually enjoy it. I just find the hype and bandwagon absolutely nauseating. Like we're trying to make this game against Russia into some sort of momentous do or die battle. Connacht whipped these guys 3 weeks ago and Samoa also hammered them in the tournament. Yet we've articles about the roof being closed and the weather conditions.....give me a break. Ireland toured here 2 years ago and we've supposedly the greatest coach ever - surely the team is prepared for the conditions??? Ireland should put 60/70 points on these guys at their ease.
Exactly my thinking on the game. It is the in your face from the media that really gets to me as well. Was I happy Ireland lost to Japan the last day, of course not but it was the least of my sporting 'worries' if you all get me. Also another thing I don't like is whenever Ireland get the ball they mostly run head down into rucks. I dont find that particular skill skilful to be honest.
Quote from: Farrandeelin on October 02, 2019, 11:10:43 AM
Quote from: magpie seanie on October 01, 2019, 11:35:17 AM
I'll watch most sports and really want Ireland to do well. I've watched rugby all my life and usually enjoy it. I just find the hype and bandwagon absolutely nauseating. Like we're trying to make this game against Russia into some sort of momentous do or die battle. Connacht whipped these guys 3 weeks ago and Samoa also hammered them in the tournament. Yet we've articles about the roof being closed and the weather conditions.....give me a break. Ireland toured here 2 years ago and we've supposedly the greatest coach ever - surely the team is prepared for the conditions??? Ireland should put 60/70 points on these guys at their ease.
Exactly my thinking on the game. It is the in your face from the media that really gets to me as well. Was I happy Ireland lost to Japan the last day, of course not but it was the least of my sporting 'worries' if you all get me. Also another thing I don't like is whenever Ireland get the ball they mostly run head down into rucks. I dont find that particular skill skilful to be honest.
One of the many things I find so stupid about the game. Like an imbicile constantly walking into the wall when there's a door beside him. And rugby must be the only sport where the aim is to kick the ball out of play. What the f**k like?!