Down v Laois

Started by Trevor Hill, July 05, 2009, 06:14:04 PM

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Our Nail Loney

#30
Quote from: The Worker on July 06, 2009, 05:11:54 PM
I would think there would have to be changes made for the Laois game. I really think Mc Kernan is wasted at full back, would much prefere to see him at CHF. or full forward,  with Garvey moving back to no3.! Fitzpatrick must be close to starting at midfield along side Dan. Is Aiden Carr available now?

Yeah deffo available.

Agree KMcK is wasted at full back, far more effective up the field... Garvey did well on Sat night though from half back, especially in the first half..

Mid Down Gael

Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 06, 2009, 05:21:44 PM
Quote from: The Worker on July 06, 2009, 05:11:54 PM
I would think there would have to be changes made for the Laois game. I really think Mc Kernan is wasted at full back, would much prefere to see him at CHF. or full forward,  with Garvey moving back to no3.! Fitzpatrick must be close to starting at midfield along side Dan. Is Aiden Carr available now?

Yeah deffo available.

And you can be sure he will start even though he was terrible in Enniskillen.

Our Nail Loney

Quote from: Mid Down Gael on July 06, 2009, 05:41:40 PM
Quote from: Our Nail Loney on July 06, 2009, 05:21:44 PM
Quote from: The Worker on July 06, 2009, 05:11:54 PM
I would think there would have to be changes made for the Laois game. I really think Mc Kernan is wasted at full back, would much prefere to see him at CHF. or full forward,  with Garvey moving back to no3.! Fitzpatrick must be close to starting at midfield along side Dan. Is Aiden Carr available now?

Yeah deffo available.

And you can be sure he will start even though he was terrible in Enniskillen.

:-\

He isn't even sure himself if he will start.

Mourne Rover

Ross may not be planning too many changes for the Laois game, but we could certainly be doing with a few. While it is a winnable match, a repeat of the London performance will be the end of our season.

McKernan, even before his injury, never looked comfortable at full back and a switch to CHF would make much more sense. Turley did reasonably well against Fermanagh and should be given another chance at no 3.

Hanna was unlucky to be the first player replaced against London, but he is really one for next year.This would allow Carr to return to wing half back, rather than the half forward role in which he struggled against Fermanagh.

Fitzpatrick joining Dan at midfield should be a no-brainer, and it would be great if Ambrose is fit enough to came into the half forward line. If he is still out, Sexton made a decent impact when he came on against London and should get another run.

McArdle, Maginn and Boyle looked lightweight against London, while Kearney was disappointing. Magee might be worth a gamble, as, while he is very raw, he is a ball-winner who can take scores from both play and frees and is also left-footed. Hughes could switch to a free role, with Benny and McComiskey up front.

This would leave us with McVeigh; McGovern, Turley, Rafferty; Carr, Murphy, Duffin; Dan and Fitzpatrick; Ambrose, McKernan, Magee; Hughes, McComiskey, Benny.

However, it is likely to be much closer to the team which started against London.

Brick Tamlin

the time for testing out players or taking a gamble on them has passed i think. Whilst young Magee might be decent enough i dont think its the time to be blooding him or anyone else. i thought we were sluggish against London and only played in flashes, never really had to move up a gear to win. Thought Mc Kernan was far too loose as a full back and should be let play ball in the forward line, move him to 11 asap. defence was ok but again when we are run at the foul count goes through the roof. Think Timmy Hanna is a year too early maybe, hasnt physique for it yet, maybe same for Maginn, although both definitley have athleticism and skills. Dan was fighting lone battle at midfield and Kearney isnt a midfielder, he is best at wing half forward. Ambrose wont be risked just yet, as he still isnt fit for more than a cameo.
I thought forward line was disappointing as an attacking unit, as individuals they were good in their own wee parts but as a unit playing together didnt think they clicked (maybe apart from the goal which was a decent move). in truth Benny & Danny Hughes should have been racking up a big personal tally against London, disappointing that they didnt. Benny Mc Ardle gave a few loose passes and was sloppy once or twice but wasnt too prominent overall. Thought Boyle was decent enough and took scores well, distributed well and didnt do alot wrong, but definitley not a corner forward. Cumiskey was similar to Benny & Danny.

id expect a big improvement against better opposition this week, especially from the more established players.

Ross will go with a very similar team id say.

1 Brendy Mc Veigh
2 Ciaran Mc Govern
3 Pete Turley
4 Dee Rafferty
5 Conor Garvey
6 Paul Murphy
7 Aidan Carr

8 Dan Gordon
9 Stephen Kearney

10 Danny Hughes
11 Kevin Mc Kernan
12 Ronan Sexton/Ronan Murtagh
13 Paul Mc Comiskey
14 Benny Coulter
15 John Boyle

bcarrier

Quote from: Mourne Rover on July 06, 2009, 11:19:28 PM

This would leave us with McVeigh; McGovern, Turley, Rafferty; Carr, Murphy, Duffin; Dan and Fitzpatrick; Ambrose, McKernan, Magee; Hughes, McComiskey, Benny.


I like that team Mourne Rover. Dodgy enough full back line but nothing new there . Plenty of ball winners around middle.

western exile

Did anyone read the article on Laois in the Sunday Tribune by Ewan MacKenna?   If ever a press article should psyche up a team, this one will !!
(it was published on Sunday before they knew they would be playing against Down)

Laois kids' futures all in the past
They never built on their massive underage success and now there are too many egos and not enough honest effort to haul them to the top

Whitewash: Laois's 15-point defeat against Kildare in the Leinster SFC semi-final was one in a series of heavy losses they have suffered this year

Back in 2005, as Laois made their way to Croke Park for an All Ireland quarter-final against Armagh, the first enemy outpost they reached was Athy. There was no hiding the fact either. The south Kildare town was draped with election-style posters, each one reading "Ulster Says No To The Queen's County". They were the work of one local man who'd spent dawn on a rickety stepladder but they encapsulated the sentiments of many in Kildare. There was a jealousy and bitterness that came from not just how well their rivals were doing, but how successful they could be.

Just four years on and Laois should be in a stronger position still, yet all that's left is the wreckage from last Saturday's Leinster semi-final against Kildare and there is very little to salvage from that. As good as their one provincial title and handful of years challenging as a top-eight team were, this is an underage superpower now acting like an irritating rogue state. Since 1996 they have won three All Ireland minor titles. That's more than Dublin, Galway, Mayo, Cork, Kerry and Armagh combined and only Tyrone have achieved more. They've won six Leinster minor titles in that same period too and have won three provincial under-21 titles since 1998.

Yet 40 minutes into last Saturday's clash with Kildare, Laois fans were deserting O'Connor Park and with all that has gone on, the side are in danger of being known as the Queens' County.

It's not a new phenomenon either. In fact it's the fourth time Laois have been embarrassed this year. Bernard Flynn may have talked about the ferocity of a training session he witnessed in the build-up to the game but that masked a side packed with too many egos and that had already been blitzed by Kildare, Monaghan and Cork in the league by an average of 12 points.

The problem is rooted in the past and it's developed into a culture of arrogance that's gone on too long to change. Mick O'Dwyer recently said of the side in this confession box, "He [Fergal Byron] was speaking from his heart because he gave me a wonderful commitment while I was there. Others couldn't say that. There was marvellous material in Laois but they were never as willing to give the same commitment as I got in Kildare. They didn't have the commitment or the same drive." But others there during O'Dwyer's four-year stint put that down as an understatement.

"Micko didn't care after a while because there was nothing he could do about what was going on," says a source familiar with what went on at the time. "But in Kildare guys would run up mountains for that man just because he said so. In Laois they needed explanations. Now that wasn't all of them but there were boys there who would fake injury during laps just to get out of them. All the talent in the world and most of it wasted in that place."

During O'Dwyer's final year, the most successful manager of them all was questioned by a side with just a single provincial title to their name. They ridiculed his methods, demanded change and modernisation and got the beating of a lifetime against Dublin. They didn't learn from that either though because O'Dwyer was far from the only manager to suffer at their hands. When Liam Kearns came to the county in 2007, it was to move forward a career that had seen him take Limerick to the brink of a Munster title. But there was a stage when he couldn't even find a player able to captain Laois. Ross Munnelly was said to be too selfish on the ball, Joe Higgins and Tom Kelly didn't show up for the league and after that there was a void when it came to finding a leader.

And Kearns faced far more startling problems than finding a recipient for an armband. Two players in the side had tried to move towards professionalism, refusing to play for Laois until they were sponsored to do so. What had once been ripe and vibrant was rotten to the core. A member of the Laois set-up at the time who wishes to remain nameless takes it further.

"They were put on a pedestal in Laois after winning those minor titles. If you go in to a pub there are pictures on the wall, there's someone there to buy them a pint and remind them of when they won underage All Irelands. You get that respect for winning senior titles in other counties. And they are making the same mistakes. Before it was Beano and Munnelly, now it's Donie Kingston and Tierney who are elevated too high. Some young guys go into the dressing room and think they rule it. The older guys never put them in their place. No leadership. It's gone too far in Laois and there's no going back. Mentally it's frightening just how weak they are."

Even current manager Seán Dempsey has experienced it and he's only in his first year. A former under-21 manager who dropped Donie Brennan before a 2006 All Ireland semi-final, he was forced to do it again this season officially for alcohol-related breaches of discipline but unofficially for a lack of effort in training. Yet within days, Brennan's club manager Nicky McGrath wrote to a local paper. "If this is correct then I would suggest that at least 50 per cent of the panel should have been dropped," he said.

It's not a coincidence that the only times Laois managed to act as a normal group of footballers were in '03 and '05, the year they captured Leinster and the year they peaked. Since then things have been out of control.

Late last year the players were all given gym membership, as was the case in Kildare, but last Saturday it was clear which group had been pushing themselves to the limit eight months ago. On top of that, three nights training each week doesn't cover for three nights socialising in the same week and while such accusations are aimed at limited numbers on the panel, last Saturday also showed that you can't cover for a colleague at the highest level.

In truth Dempsey neither commanded nor demanded respect from this side but if they weren't willing to respect O'Dwyer, then who will they respect? And when Dempsey realises he'd be better off doing pretty much anything else, who will want to take over such a group? After all, you can't force heart and dedication on a team and it appears they aren't going to force it upon themselves.

Not until Friday did the panel get back into training after their mauling six days previous. In the intervening period many had seen their pictures on the walls and glimpsed back at better days. They might have realised then that their future is buried deeply in the past.

July 5, 2009


The Real Laoislad

#37
Heard it all before,most of it true...
Will it psyche up the Laois players? Not a chance they don't give a f**k as far as I can see
You'll Never Walk Alone.

The Real Laoislad

Oh yeah meant to ask,can someone give me directions to the pitch in Newry,I'll be coming from Dublin
Thanks
You'll Never Walk Alone.

D4S

Fairly straightforward...

-Follow M1 North until you come to the very end of it at Newry.

- When you come off the motorway at the roundabout take the last exit under the bridge heading down into Newry town centre. 

-Drive straight ahead down the hill for around a mile and drive straight on past the Quays shopping centre+buttercrane shopping centre until you come to the 2nd set of lights.

-Turn right signposted WARRENPOINT. Can't miss the ground just as you're heading out of Newry towards Warrenpoint.
The secret of success in life is for a man to be ready for his opportunity when it comes.

The Real Laoislad

Quote from: D4S on July 07, 2009, 04:58:37 PM
Fairly straightforward...

-Follow M1 North until you come to the very end of it at Newry.

- When you come off the motorway at the roundabout take the last exit under the bridge heading down into Newry town centre. 

-Drive straight ahead down the hill for around a mile and drive straight on past the Quays shopping centre+buttercrane shopping centre until you come to the 2nd set of lights.

-Turn right signposted WARRENPOINT. Can't miss the ground just as you're heading out of Newry towards Warrenpoint.

Cheers,whats parking like?
You'll Never Walk Alone.

lob her in lad

Was at this fixture last year and it was a dire game. Only went up to it because we were on the beer since opening that morning and thought it would be a good idea to take a walk up to it. Just goes to show you should never make decisions under the influence.

This year Laois by 4.
"I am so clever that sometimes I don't understand a single word of what I am saying."

5 Sams

Quote from: The Real Laoislad on July 07, 2009, 05:00:42 PM
Quote from: D4S on July 07, 2009, 04:58:37 PM
Fairly straightforward...

-Follow M1 North until you come to the very end of it at Newry.

- When you come off the motorway at the roundabout take the last exit under the bridge heading down into Newry town centre. 

-Drive straight ahead down the hill for around a mile and drive straight on past the Quays shopping centre+buttercrane shopping centre until you come to the 2nd set of lights.

-Turn right signposted WARRENPOINT. Can't miss the ground just as you're heading out of Newry towards Warrenpoint.

Cheers,whats parking like?

Plenty all along the road from the town centre to the ground....if Down's support is anything like last Saturday you be able to park behind the goals :-\
60,61,68,91,94
The Aristocrat Years

The Real Laoislad

Quote from: 5 Sams on July 07, 2009, 05:25:23 PM
Quote from: The Real Laoislad on July 07, 2009, 05:00:42 PM
Quote from: D4S on July 07, 2009, 04:58:37 PM
Fairly straightforward...

-Follow M1 North until you come to the very end of it at Newry.

- When you come off the motorway at the roundabout take the last exit under the bridge heading down into Newry town centre. 

-Drive straight ahead down the hill for around a mile and drive straight on past the Quays shopping centre+buttercrane shopping centre until you come to the 2nd set of lights.

-Turn right signposted WARRENPOINT. Can't miss the ground just as you're heading out of Newry towards Warrenpoint.

Cheers,whats parking like?

Plenty all along the road from the town centre to the ground....if Down's support is anything like last Saturday you be able to park behind the goals :-\

Well I reckon I'll be the only one with a LS car reg at it too...
It might be just yourself and meself so...Keep us a seat will ya  :D
You'll Never Walk Alone.

bcarrier

The problem is rooted in the past and it's developed into a culture of arrogance that's gone on too long to change. Mick O'Dwyer recently said of the side in this confession box, "He [Fergal Byron] was speaking from his heart because he gave me a wonderful commitment while I was there. Others couldn't say that. There was marvellous material in Laois but they were never as willing to give the same commitment as I got in Kildare. They didn't have the commitment or the same drive." But others there during O'Dwyer's four-year stint put that down as an understatement.

"Micko didn't care after a while because there was nothing he could do about what was going on," says a source familiar with what went on at the time. "But in Kildare guys would run up mountains for that man just because he said so. In Laois they needed explanations. Now that wasn't all of them but there were boys there who would fake injury during laps just to get out of them. All the talent in the world and most of it wasted in that place."

During O'Dwyer's final year, the most successful manager of them all was questioned by a side with just a single provincial title to their name. They ridiculed his methods, demanded change and modernisation and got the beating of a lifetime against Dublin. They didn't learn from that either though because O'Dwyer was far from the only manager to suffer at their hands. When Liam Kearns came to the county in 2007, it was to move forward a career that had seen him take Limerick to the brink of a Munster title. But there was a stage when he couldn't even find a player able to captain Laois. Ross Munnelly was said to be too selfish on the ball, Joe Higgins and Tom Kelly didn't show up for the league and after that there was a void when it came to finding a leader.

And Kearns faced far more startling problems than finding a recipient for an armband. Two players in the side had tried to move towards professionalism, refusing to play for Laois until they were sponsored to do so. What had once been ripe and vibrant was rotten to the core. A member of the Laois set-up at the time who wishes to remain nameless takes it further.

"They were put on a pedestal in Laois after winning those minor titles. If you go in to a pub there are pictures on the wall, there's someone there to buy them a pint and remind them of when they won underage All Irelands. You get that respect for winning senior titles in other counties. And they are making the same mistakes. Before it was Beano and Munnelly, now it's Donie Kingston and Tierney who are elevated too high. Some young guys go into the dressing room and think they rule it. The older guys never put them in their place. No leadership. It's gone too far in Laois and there's no going back. Mentally it's frightening just how weak they are."



How much of this also applies to Down set up ? Blaming the manager is easy way out.